Lindsay Ziehl · 44 min
Stranded in South Africa during COVID, unable to reach her son's body in Australia, Lindsay Ziehl turned catastrophic grief into a foundation, and found her turning point watching a tiny cat steal a frozen chicken at a bus stop between chemotherapy sessions.
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Lindsay Ziehl grew up moving between continents, learning from her father's quiet example of kindness and her mother's hunger for the world. That restlessness became her way of coping: adapt fast, make friends quickly, keep moving. At 22, she followed a musician to Africa and built a life in South Africa across nearly five decades, raising her son Andrew alone after her husband walked out. When Andrew asked to move back to Australia as a teenager, it broke her heart, but she let him go because she had been given the same freedom as a young woman. She owed him that choice.
In November 2020, a police officer called with no preamble: Andrew was dead. Lindsay was stranded in South Africa during COVID, unable to reach him, unable to grieve in the way she needed. Months later, people began calling her to say what Andrew had done in secret: bought concert tickets for people who could not afford them, called friends on their birthdays, showed up for people he never mentioned. That discovery shifted everything. A rabbi had told her to stop asking why and start asking what now, and those words became her turning point. She founded the Andrew Zeal Foundation and spent decades training roughly 3,000 women in shelters across South Africa, giving each one a certificate at the end because for a woman broken down by abuse with no work history, that piece of paper was like gold.
During her second battle with cancer, sitting at a bus station between chemotherapy sessions, Lindsay watched a tiny black and white cat steal a frozen chicken nearly its own size and carry it back to feed its kittens. The cat did not ask why the burden was so heavy. It simply carried what it had to carry because love made it necessary. That moment taught her what survival actually looks like, and it has stayed with her for years. At 77, Lindsay still plans ahead, still refuses to retire, and still knows that grief is something you never get over but something you learn from, so you can help someone else carry theirs.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses domestic & family violence and grief & loss, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • 1800RESPECT (family, domestic & sexual violence): 1800 737 732 · 1800respect.org.au • Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au • GriefLine: 1300 845 745 · griefline.org.au
“You don't ever get over losing a child ever.”
“Every time something happens in your life that overwhelms you, you learn and you do. And that learning helps you help somebody else.”
“You have no idea what Andrew did for us.”
The hero, today
When Lindsay's son died, a rabbi told her to stop asking why and start asking what now, a shift that moved her out of victim state and toward the foundation that now carries Andrew's name and legacy. Lindsay trained roughly 3,000 women in shelters, giving each one a certificate at the end of their course because for a woman broken down by abuse with no work history, that certificate is like gold. At a bus station during chemotherapy, Lindsay watched a tiny cat carry a frozen chicken as heavy as itself back to its kittens, and she realised if that cat could do it, she could do it too. Lindsay says that grief is something you will never get over, but you learn from it, and that learning helps you help somebody else, which is what pushed her to start the foundation. When someone asked Lindsay how she let Andrew go to Australia when she wanted him to stay, she said because she had been given opportunities as a young person to do what she wanted, and she had to do the same for her son.
Yes. Lindsay Ziehl is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
When Lindsay's son died, a rabbi told her to stop asking why and start asking what now, a shift that moved her out of victim state and toward the foundation that now carries Andrew's name and legacy.
Lindsay trained roughly 3,000 women in shelters, giving each one a certificate at the end of their course because for a woman broken down by abuse with no work history, that certificate is like gold.
At a bus station during chemotherapy, Lindsay watched a tiny cat carry a frozen chicken as heavy as itself back to its kittens, and she realised if that cat could do it, she could do it too.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 00:03
Welcome to the Grit Diaries with Mon and Maz, a place where we share real stories meets real transformation. Each episode, we share the journeys of everyday people who's faced life's hardest moments and found their way to hope, healing, and purpose. May their courage inspire you and in the world around you. Let's get inspired. We have just finished up an interview with the incredible Lindsay Zeal, who's come to us from South Africa. She's a two-time cancer survivor. She's an ambassador for domestic violence. She has rescued women and children from trafficking, all through— she lost her young son Andrew. And I don't know about you, Mon, I think we were both very moved by her story and About resilience, but also about looking at what can I do, not why is this happening to me. Incredible story, and I really urge everyone to listen in.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 01:08
An outstanding story about taking yourself out of victim state and from, you know, just surviving to thriving. And I really encourage listeners, if you've ever lost someone and wondered why, listen to this podcast. It's fantastic.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 01:24
Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of The Grit Diaries. Hey, Mon!
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 01:30
Hi, Maz, how are you today?
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 01:32
Fabulous. Oh, today again, don't we just have some incredible guests on this show?
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 01:39
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This site is part of Kintsugi Heroes. Visit the main site for the full podcast. If any of these stories hit close to home, support is out there, you don't have to sit with it alone.
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Lindsay says that grief is something you will never get over, but you learn from it, and that learning helps you help somebody else, which is what pushed her to start the foundation.
This conversation includes a life in motion, the suitcases always packed, following a musician to africa, he just walked out, andrew wants to go home and a police officer's phone call.
Sure do.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 01:40
Oh, and this is stories of resilience and excited about what's about to happen. What a privilege we have, you know, as you and I were saying, you know, we come off these podcasts and these interviews and we're just like, oh my gosh, like It really fills our cup and we're just learning so much, and today is going to be no exception. I want to welcome here today Lindsay Ziehl. Am I saying Ziehl correctly?
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 02:05
Yes, you are. It's Z-I-E-H-L. A lot of people can't spell it correctly, but you said it absolutely perfectly.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 02:12
Yes, we're off on a flying start. Welcome to the Grit Diaries, Lindsay.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 02:17
Yeah, welcome. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 02:20
Ah, look, special gratitude. Lindsay is over in South Africa and it is past 11 PM at night recording this, so we're very grateful for you to be here to share your story with everyone. So just a little bit about Lindsay. Lindsay is a British-born humanitarian. She is an author and an advocate for women. She was actually raised in Australia, spent a lot of her time in Melbourne and some in Sydney. She was actually crowned Miss Victoria in 1969. How good is that? I think I'm gonna see if I can Google a photo of that. Over 25 international awards, as well as one from Queen Elizabeth for her work with domestic violence. She's regarded as one of the most experienced voices in domestic violence for over 25 years. She has trained over 3,000 women and personally saved the lives of countless women and children through relentless intervention with ministers police and senior officials. She has helped secure the release of trafficked women just one day before she was sent abroad. A two-time cancer survivor who endured the devastating loss of her beloved son Andrew, she founded the foundation Andrew Zeal Foundation and continues to fight fearlessly for those without a voice. So even just in that bio, I'm sure all of you are already tuning in, stopping what you're doing, and this beautiful lady has had one heck of a journey, and we appreciate your willingness to share. So Lindsay, tell us a little bit about what life was like growing up for you and what's relevant to your story and your challenges and your resilience. What was happening in your young years, and what were some poignant things that were happening at that time for you?
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 04:09
Well, my parents loved to travel, and we traveled a lot. So basically went to many schools in my lifetime, and I was trying to count how many the other day and I couldn't find them all, so I couldn't write them on the bio. But my mother was a great traveler. She, that's, she actually motivated us all to travel. My dad was very quiet. He was very book smart and came from an extremely poor family. He didn't have the opportunity to go to university when he was younger. And I think it was wonderful when he met my mum because my mother came from upper middle class family. And she said, right, we are going to travel. And I think for my dad, that was a wonderful, wonderful thing.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 05:00
Mm-hmm.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 05:00
And it was for me too, because traveling really opens one's mind and you get to meet people from all different walks and all different cultures. But one of the things that my father always taught me was to be kind and help people because he came from a very, very poor family. So he knew what it felt like not to have or to need help. And that was always told to me. And he always said, if somebody needs a hand, you have to help them. And I've had that in my heart all these years. So that was the basis of my young life. My mum and dad worked continually. My father had wonderful work ethic, and that is also something I learned from him as well. As I said, we moved to Sydney when I was extremely young, probably about 4 or 5. And we stayed in Bellevue Hill, and then we moved to Rose Bay, and we were there for about a year or so. And I traveled so much, I can't split up the time. I can't say we were there for 8 months or number, so I, I'm just going to run through it quickly. And we went back to the UK, and we were there for about a year, and then we came back to Australia again because my mom and dad loved Australia. In that time it was different schools, different schools, different schools. So I did have the opportunity to meet a lot of different people in my life, not only by traveling but by the different schools and the different teaching methods. I think at an early age my mother realized I would not be an intellectual.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 06:47
How did you find, out of curiosity, for moving schools, making new friends, was that exciting? Was it Scary? Was it— what was that for you?
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 06:58
It actually wasn't scary for me because it wasn't— if you're used to doing something continually like that, it becomes part of your life. I would come home from school and my mother would have suitcases and she'd say, we're leaving and we're going off to back to England for 6 months. Can I ask a quick question?
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 07:18
Yeah.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 07:18
What did they do? What were their occupations that allowed them the freedom to travel so much? Well, wherever they went, they found work and they worked. I mean, my dad was a postman for a while. I think he was a postman in Australia. And a lot of the times we'd travel and then my father always had work. My father always worked. My mum then worked in Sydney. She was working in a coffee bar in Sydney for some Hungarian people. Wonderful people. And then it would be, right, we're going to England, and then we would come back again. And then I was very small, I did some modeling as a child in Sydney with Pucci clothing, and I did some— I, I, you know, there was so much that went on in my little life. As I say, we went back and forth and back and forth, so I didn't really have a lot of friends, and I was an only child. So I was used to being on my own most of the time. And you learn how to occupy your time yourself. So I think the first day of school is always the worst, but I had many of those first days and eventually it just came part of my life, you know? So we went back and forth and then eventually we landed in Melbourne and we were in Melbourne for quite a few years actually. I enjoyed Melbourne. I have to say I do love Melbourne. It's, my home, even though I haven't been in Australia for— I don't want to say this because it sounds really, really a long time. We left in '74. 52 years. Oh, don't say it. Half a century ago. Yes, it was. You know, every year I watch the coming of the new year, and whenever I watch that I get very tearful when I see that bridge, and that's it. The tears flow. I think because I spent so much of my youth in Australia, and this is where I did have a stable home for quite a few years. So I still have the accent. You may not hear it, but in South Africa they say, why have you got a South African— why have you got an Australian accent? And I go, no, I haven't. And they say, yes, you have.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 09:40
You do.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 09:40
And then I phone a friend in Australia and they say, gosh, you know, you've got a real South African accent there. And I go, no, I haven't. So I've got this mixture.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 09:49
Yeah, you do.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 09:50
Of everything going on here. You have an Audrey Hepburn accent, which is described as continental. And I love it.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 09:57
Yeah.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 09:57
Because you've got a little bit of English, a little bit. There's a little bit of this, a dash of this.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 10:01
Yes. It sounds quite polished.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 10:03
I've desire a continental accent. That's what I would love. So Lindsay, I still love yours. Absolutely beautiful, Lindsay.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 10:12
And so Lindsay, what brought you that beautiful growing up years? You embraced the travel and nomadic existence in the safety of your parents. How did you— if you could bring us sort of fast forward a little bit, and how did you end up over in Africa?
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 10:30
Well, I got married. I met a musician and we got married and his family were living in Zambia. He was brought up in Zambia. His father was a manager of the mines in Zambia. And then they moved from Zambia down to Rhodesia, which is now Zimbabwe. And Andrew, my son, had been born. And he said, I, you know, I'd like to go back to Africa and I want you to meet my mom and my dad and, you know, bring Andrew and what have you. And we had a little dog as well. So we flew over to Rhodesia, to Zimbabwe, and we were there for, I'd say about 6 to 8 months. The war was on in Rhodesia at that time. And his family were not only his dad and his mom had been working on the mines, but they'd retired. But his other cousins were living in Zimbabwe and they were tobacco farmers and most of them lived wide out into the country and we spent some time there. But it was very terrifying actually, because when there's a war going, there were a lot of things that were going on there and I wasn't used to that.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 11:47
Mm-hmm.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 11:48
So for me it was very nerve-wracking and we left Zimbabwe and we came down to South Africa, spent some time in Johannesburg for a while, and then we actually spent some time in Cape Town as well because I was an ice skater. I was a figure skater. Yeah. And surprises. I did some shows in, yeah, I know this is, there's a lot of stuff there you have to go through. It's like a going through a forest. And there was some shows, ice shows in, in Cape Town. And I thought, oh, well, I might as well do those. So I did an ice show in Cape Town. And then we came back to Johannesburg and then we eventually landed in Durban. And that's where we lived for a very, very long time. Durban is very much like Brisbane. It's very hot and very tropical and, you know, lovely. So we lived there and then we split. My husband just, just walked out one day and, you know, you hear of people saying, I'm going off to buy a newspaper and you never see them again. Well, he walked off and we never saw him again either. But I was working at that time. I always worked and Andrew was at school. And so we sort of got along that way and, and that's how we, we survived really. It wasn't so much a survival. I mean, there's worse survival stories than mine out there, but at the time it was quite difficult because there was only one salary coming in.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 13:22
That's a big event. Did you just come home and he just literally just didn't turn up?
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 13:29
He just said to me, he said, look, cuz he used to travel quite a lot. He was a musician, but he was also working for a company, so that he was traveling around and he said, I'm gonna travel a lot and I'll be back whenever. And he just never came back. And in a way, to be quite honest, it was a huge relief for me because it was not a great marriage.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 13:52
Mm-hmm.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 13:52
It was very, very difficult. And I stuck it out for 18 years. You know, one always does for the children. You will say, oh, well, I'm, you know, I need to stay for my son and what have you, which, you know, as I've learned over the years, that's not necessary if you're not happy. And he never came back and I never heard from him again. And I have no idea where he went or whatever. And it was only, it must be 3 years ago, somebody got hold of me and said to me, you do know that he's passed away? I said, no, I didn't know that. So that was it.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 14:31
Yeah.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 14:31
But I never got divorced. I just left it. I thought, well, I'm, you know, I'm not gonna get married again. And I just, wanted to get on with my life and get on with Andrew's life so we could build a future. Mm-hmm. So I was working, Andrew was at school, he was doing extremely well. And he said to me one day, I wanna go home. And I said, but you are home. And he said, no, home, home. I wanna go back to Australia. I said, but you were only a, you're a little tiny child. You would like 2 or something when we left. And he said, no, I wanna go home. And that was basically, you know, your children have to fly. Mm-hmm. And that's what he wanted to do. And I said, fine. And that was it. I was working in domestic violence at that stage. He'd obviously gone to Australia a few years before that, and then he came to see me a couple of times in Port Elizabeth, cuz that's where I am in PE. And would come out for about 3 or 4 weeks and then go back. And it's always hard, you know, it pulls on your heart when your child leaves. And I hate those goodbyes. They just— I don't act well with those.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 15:45
Lindsay, I really wanted to highlight, sorry to interrupt you, something that you really had to dig deeply with. And I just wanted for the listeners and the viewers that when you're having to allow a child to live their dreams, what was that thing that for you that was really important when you had to just let him fly? Because I know that that was really challenging for you.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 16:06
I think because I had had the opportunities when I was young to do what I wanted to do. When I'd won the Miss Victoria, we had to go overseas. Everything, we traveled by ship. We didn't travel by plane. We did a couple of plane trips in Europe, but I spent, must have been at least 5 to 6 months going all over the world basically as a prize. So I had the opportunity to go and do what I wanted to do. And when Andrew said to me, look, you know, I'd like to go home. Did I want him to go? No. But unfortunately for me, he said no, no, he did want to leave and he wanted to go home. And I said, fine. And it was heartbreaking for me, I have to say, because we were always together. And then suddenly he was gone, but he would fly over. Thank goodness for technology because we could phone each other, we could go on Zoom and do all of these calls, but it's not quite the same as having that child, you know, near you. The one thing about Andrew, he was the most wonderful, wonderful boy. And of course he came out to South Africa a few times. And then the last time he was going to be coming out in 2021. And at the end of 2020, he was fine. We were talking on the phone and everything was going well. And he said, I'll speak to you next week. I said, fine. That was in November. And I remember trying to phone him and I couldn't get hold of him. And I went out with a friend of mine who lives here, who, she's an Australian from Sydney, and We were having tea and I said, you know, this boy, I keep phoning him and he won't answer his phone. And it was probably about 2 days later, I had a phone call from police officer in Pretoria. And he started asking me these questions. Do you have a son in Australia? And I said, yes. And then he said, does he live in Queensland? And I said, yes. And he said to me, where in Queensland? And I said, And this is when I started to get panicked because I said to him, listen, you are a police officer, you know all of this, so you should know where he lives. And he said, well, is his name Andrew? And I said, yes. And he said, I just have to tell you that your son has passed away.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 18:34
Hmm.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 18:35
And that was it. There was no, I'm terribly sorry, or anything like that. It was just, your son is gone. I think grief— different people handle grief differently. And I think for about a good 3 or 4 hours, I just, I didn't know what to do. It was just like, what do I do? What do I do? What do I do? Is it? And then I thought, no, it can't be real. And then it sort of started to hit me later and later and later. And I had somebody in Australia a young man, wonderful young man. And I got hold of him and he said, look, I'll go around to the apartment. And he actually did everything because I couldn't get to Australia because of COVID pandemic. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And he did everything. And eventually, you don't ever get over losing a child, ever. You know, people say it gets easier over time. Well, maybe it does for some, but for me it doesn't. It doesn't, because every day I think of him, every day of my life. When somebody said, oh, but you know, you're so strong, and I said, well, you don't see me all the time. You don't see me in the morning. You don't see me late at night. But it's something you never expect. I think one expects your parents to go before you. You expect it. You don't want it to happen, but you expect it. And I'd lost my mum a year earlier. Well, it wasn't even a year. It was about 9 months earlier. And it's not something that I had planned in my head because you plan this like, oh well, I'll go over at some stage to Oz or Andrew's coming to me, and suddenly it just goes dead. It's not gonna happen. Yeah. So you can either sit and you can just say, I'm done, or you can try and sort of move and you have to pull yourself together sometimes. Mm-hmm. You know, sometimes you don't feel like getting out of your pajamas. I don't wanna get out of my pajamas. I just wanna sit. And you get to the point where you have to push yourself. Yeah. You've gotta get up, you've gotta stand up, you've gotta get dressed up, and you've gotta get going. Mm-hmm. And that's what you have to do. You have to push yourself. But I'll never get over this. I will never get over it. Thank you for sharing that. And I wanna just say to the audience, if anyone is impacted by this, that please do reach out to Lifeline, 13 1114, and Lindsay, I resonate very much. I think exactly the same period of time, lost my brother in Queensland in November 2020, and we were unable to see him as well. So I'm listening to you and thinking about my mom and thinking how it's not, you know, it's just not the right order to— for your children to pass before you. It's not the right order. But, but from everything that happens in your life Sorry. It's all right. You learn from this. And every time something happens in your life that overwhelms you, that you think, I don't know if I'm going to get through this, you learn and you do. And that learning helps you help somebody else. Yes. And it helped me a great deal, not only to decide to start a foundation in Andrew's name, but from his death, I learned things that Andrew did that I never knew. I had calls from people who I didn't know, who said to me, you have no idea what Andrew did for us. You have no idea how much he helped us. You have no idea that he would phone us every birthday. Yeah. And, you know, and I had a lady phone me and said, you have no idea that Andrew— I couldn't afford for my daughters to go to a concert, and he went and bought tickets and gave. He did so much that I didn't know about, that he never spoke about. He never talked about it. And there were so many people that contacted me and said, you have no idea what Andrew did for us. So then I thought, well, I better do something for people too. And that's when I started the foundation. And that's what I get up for every day. Yeah. Because if that hadn't have happened, I wouldn't have started a foundation. Mm-hmm. I wouldn't. But because of Andrew, there is that there now. And to show people that I can carry on what he left, what he was starting, I will continue with. So there we go.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 24:06
Lindsay, as Simone, as Mon is very well known for her phrase and lives it, is turning your pain into purpose. And there is no question the depths of the agony that you've experienced. And thank you for, you know, really being vulnerable enough to share that with ourselves and the audience. And even just to highlight the fact, and perhaps there's people out there listening to this at the moment and going through their own intense parts of their grief, that I really wanted to highlight what you shared. And that was sometimes you've just got to stand up, you've got to change your pajama pants, you've got to go to the bathroom. I can certainly relate. In a particular period of my life, you know, I was always an avid swimmer. Some days it was just getting in the car and just going to the beach. I didn't have to go in the water, I just had to get in the car. And eventually it was, now just sit on the grass and look at the pool. Now it was, get in, you don't have to go and do your 20 laps, you just have to literally just get in the pool, etc., etc. Eventually it morphed into lap and starting to find yourself again in time, but just allowing yourself to just incrementally. But like you say, sometimes you have to push yourself. You do.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 25:34
You have to, you know, you've got to wake up, get up and get out and get dressed. Yeah. And yes, yeah, yourself. And you sometimes don't feel that. But I would like to say, if there's somebody out there that is going through grief, and I know there's a lot of people going through grief, take as long as you like to grieve. Mm. If you're gonna grieve for the next 20 years, grieve for 20 years. Mm. If you feel that's what's needed, then you do it because you have to. You have to do it for yourself. But through that, you will learn. You learn so much. Like people always say, you learn from mistakes. Yeah, you do. But you learn from heartbreak as well. And you learn from grief. Yeah.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 26:19
Yeah.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 26:20
And pain's the best teacher, unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 26:25
Grief is nature's way because we will all experience it at some point to varying degrees. And so it's nature's changing of seasons, whether we liked it or not. But it's, we are not meant to be the same. Grief is meant to change us. And so not fighting that tide.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 26:44
Well, I always look at it that if I'm left behind, I'm left behind for a reason, and maybe I need to fulfill that or find the reason I'm here.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 26:54
Lindsay, we appreciate you, and we really want to acknowledge such a deeply felt, profound loss that you've had, particularly being your one and only beautiful child. And again, for those of you that are out there that perhaps struggling with your own version of grief right now, please, as Mon has mentioned, please reach out to your local agency, whether that's Lifeline, wherever you're listening in from, please reach out to some trained professionals that are there to support you. There is so much in your story that we have not tapped in. Again, you are one of those beautiful guests that we would absolutely love to have on for a part 2 on all of this. Purely for time, you have gone on and at the age of 60, you went back to university and you got your counseling degree, I believe, and have gone on to help thousands of women and children from being trafficked, from helping them from abuse situations, and gone on to train— what was it, 3,000 people?
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 28:01
Yeah.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 28:02
Do you want to speak a bit about that before we go into your nuggets of wisdom? I don't want to brush over just an extraordinary life that you have lived since this tragedy?
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 28:11
Well, after I left Durban, came to Port Elizabeth to start my journey with the domestic violence. And the shelters that I was working with had 3 houses. One was like an interim home where if a woman has to come in during the night with the police, she's got a place to come to. And then we had a safe house where people that are in danger that need longer than a night or whatever. We had a longer shelter for that. And then we had a halfway house for women that have been through all of that, can go to a halfway house, find a job, stay there for a while, and then move on. That's the backstory there. And when I moved in, because I'd had a bit of training in training, I said to the people who were on the board, I said, We need to train these ladies here in some sort of courses so that if they have to work, we can help them with computer training and things like this so that they can move on. Because a lot of women that are in abusive situations sometimes don't work. They're not allowed to work, so they can't go out and find a job. But when they leave, they need to because they've got children to look after. And we need people to become independent. And we never wanted people to live with us in a shelter for months and months and months and months because they become dependent on us. And that's not good for them. And so I said to them, I need to start training. And they said, yeah, but we don't have computers and we don't— I said, no, no, I'll go to Rotary. So I went to Rotary and I spoke to Rotary in PE, Rotary Club of Algoa Bay. I'll give them an ad. And I said, look, this is what we need. We need sewing machines, we need computers, we need pens, pencils, we need material, we need all sorts of things for training. And they said to me, okay, what do you want? I said, well, look, just start off with one computer. And because I didn't want to be greedy. And so in the one house, we set up all these chairs, sort of cinema fashion.. And we would have women coming for training, computer training, just basic, the basic stuff. Basically what I use, the basic stuff. And we would teach them on the one computer and then one would get up and you'd say, now you do it. And then this and this and this and this. And eventually we were getting some women also from the outlying areas and they wanted to be trained too. And we'd say, okay. If we've got room, we can do that. So eventually we got a whole stack of computers, we got sewing machines, we got a whole lot of stuff. And over the years we trained about 3,000 myself. I brought somebody else in to train. If we wanted something like in baking or cookery or something like that, I'd get somebody in because I'm no good at that. And we brought a lady in to teach sewing because I'm no good at that either. You and me, babe. And I tried the computer stuff. But we did that and we trained like 3,000 people and they would each get a certificate at the end of the course. And to see a woman who is totally broken down, who has never worked, doesn't have skills to go through training, that certificate is like gold.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 31:42
Yeah.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 31:42
The pride there, you know, with the pictures and the ladies holding up their their certificates, and they're very, very proud of that. And a lot of them, when they left the shelter, I wouldn't see them for years. And all of a sudden, I'll be walking down the road and somebody go, "Hi, Nancy!" And I go, "Hello, hello, how are you?" And they said, "Don't you remember me?" Because they're so different. Yeah, their whole character, the way they stand and they walk, and their confidence. Is different because they're out there and they're doing their thing and they're happy. So that's basically how we did it. And we trained, we trained lots and lots and lots and lots of people. And eventually we had people coming in to do sort of handicrafts as well, teaching handicrafts because, you know, we're in Africa and there's not a lot of work here. So a lot of people want to become entrepreneurs. So we wanted people to start their little businesses themselves. And women did. So that was very successful and very, very proud of that. But with the foundation that we are doing now, we won't be doing that. We'll actually be helping people to go to a college to study or go to a place to learn how to bake and cook and a place to go where they can learn to sew and so forth. We won't be doing it. Ourselves so that they can go to colleges.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 33:13
Amazing. You know, just such a turnaround and making a choice, making very deliberate decisions to really pour back into, you know, what you know you started with at the beginning of this conversation was your dad's ethic to work, his work ethic, but also to be kind and to help other people that, you know, I mean, you're obviously doing that throughout your whole life, but that has clearly become quite a full circle, you know, sort of, you know, those things that your dad valued and you are living that out exponentially. I think, you know, what really is sort of around at the moment in social media and, you know, it's never too late to begin, it's never too late, you know, at the age of 60, you're going to university, you are still impacting lives and making such a big difference. So I think that really speaks to, you know, no one's hung out to dry. We've all got value, we've all got things, gifts that we can continue to give.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 34:10
I say to people, they say to me, but you know, how old are you now? And I go, I am 77, and I still don't know what I'm going to do when I grow up. Yeah, because I'm sort of planning ahead. I'm still planning ahead to do things, and that's what keeps you going. Yeah, you just don't give up. They always say retire, and I always say retire and expire. Yeah, I'm not going to expire. So, um, and as I say, I still don't know what I'm gonna be when I grow up. So yeah, I don't like the word retire, and I hate it when people turn around and go, oh, but you're only 77 years young. That doesn't, that doesn't make sense. I'm 77, leave it at that. I'm fine.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 34:55
Thank you.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 34:55
Yeah, yeah.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 34:57
I love it.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 34:57
I love it.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 34:58
So we really wanna share with the audience, Lindsay, you know, there are two quite significant nuggets of wisdom that you've shared with us. I'm sure you have a thousand more, but if you can just share with the audience what those incredible nuggets of wisdom is that they can use themselves.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 35:16
Well, the one was when my son died, I didn't know what to do and like most people, you don't know which way to turn, you know. And you really want to know why. Why did it happen to me? Why did it happen to him? He was so young and so healthy. And, you know, he had— he was good. He wasn't bad. He was a good boy. And so I went to the rabbi and I said to him, look, I said, this is what's happened, and I just want to know why it's happened. Why does God allow this to happen? And he looked at me and he said, don't say why. And I went, why? He said, what you need to, to say to yourself now is what? And I said, I don't understand. He said, would your son like to see you as you are now? And I said, no. He said, then you must say what? Now, not why. And that has stuck with me. And I often, I go, oh, why me? Through silly things. And then I go, now what? Now what am I going to do now? What can I do now? I love that, Lindsay. Yeah. Yeah. And that actually takes you immediately. It does. It takes you immediately out of kind of that victim, poor me, poor me, doesn't it? To He said, your son will be proud of you. Carry on. What now? Do more. And that was what pushed me to start the foundation really, was those, those few words as well. And then of course, my other thing that happened to me was when I was going through cancer, the second bout, the first wasn't breast cancer, but the second was breast cancer. And I used to have to catch a a bus. I was living right up on the border of Mozambique, and I had to get a bus to go to the hospital to have chemo. And that would take 4 hours or so. It's a long way, and it was a schlep, but it had to be done, and I had to do it. So I would go on this bus, a big bus, little bus, and they would drop me off at this, the bus station, and I'd walk and I'd get to the hospital, which wasn't very far away, go into the hospital, go to the cancer department, sit for a while just so they know you're there, because then they mix up all your chemo. They won't do it beforehand because it's so expensive, so they do it once you're there. You wait for an hour for that to be done, and then you sit for a couple of hours for it to go through. Once it's done, then you sit for a bit, you have a ginger biscuit or two or whatever you feel like at that stage, and then I used to walk back to the bus station. And I would sit and that would usually be about 2 or 3 o'clock in the afternoon. And the bus usually came at 5. So I would sit at the bus station. And there was this one day that I was sitting there feeling really sorry for myself. Another one of those why me things. And I'm sitting there and I go, I don't know why this is all happening to me. And I have to travel this far and I feel terrible. And now this is, and I didn't know whether I was gonna live because I'd had this cancer for a very long time. Nobody told me what it was, and I went to several doctors and they all said, no, don't worry about it. But you know in your gut, I think women have a very good intuition, and there was just something that kept saying to me, no, no, no, there's something not right. And I eventually went to another doctor and there was about the fourth doctor and I took off my shirt and he just said, I know what's wrong with you. You have Paget's disease. And I said, what? He said, you have to go to the hospital. You've got to go and have the tests, which I did do. So anyway, so I went to the hospital. They did all the tests. Yes, I had to have my breast removed. I had to have chemo first, then I had the breast removed. And no, I actually had the breast removed, then I had the chemo. I was sitting at the bus station and it was a lovely day, lovely sunny day, and it was very quiet. And this truck arrived.. And it was an open, we call them buckies here, but it was an open truck at the back and stuck on the back was all these frozen chickens. So I'm sitting there thinking, oh, frozen chickens and it's warm. You know, you hear about chicken and the gentleman who was driving the truck obviously needed to go to the gents, to the bathroom, and he got out of his truck, and I'm sitting there, and out of the corner of my eye, there was some bushes on the other side of the, the little road. This little cat, this little black and white cat, came running out, tiny little thing. And I watched this cat, and it jumped, and it jumped on the back of this truck, and it grabbed a frozen chicken in its mouth. And it jumped off and it was one hell of a thud. And it was— this chicken was nearly as big as the cat and it must have been heavy 'cause it was frozen. And it ran away and this thing was swinging and it ran back into the bushes and it was taking it to its kittens. And I sat there and I thought, if that little cat can carry something so heavy, well, those little kittens, Why am I sitting here feeling sorry for myself? Pull yourself up by your bootstraps. That's what my mother used to say. And just get on with it. Don't feel sorry for yourself. Just move on. Get on with it. You're alive. Get on with it. And that story of that cat has lived with me for years. And it was so powerful, that little thing running off with this huge chicken because it had to. Because it was feeding its kittens that it loved and it would go to any length to help those kittens. And I thought, well, if that cat can do it, I can do it too. I can be as strong as that cat. So that stays with me for years and years. So that was one of the things that I've actually got in my book. I'm writing my autobiography at the moment, and that's going to be the title of my book. The Cat That Got Sick. So, and it's all about What's the title going to be, Lindy? It's A Cat, a Frozen Chicken, and Chemo. And that's just, yeah, that, that's it. That'll, that's the title. Love it. Love it. Love it. A great story. That one will stay with me for a lifetime.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 41:57
I'm with you, mine, that the cat story. And I love the way that, you know, I'm just going back to what you've kindly sent us. The cat, she didn't ask why the chicken was so heavy. She simply carried it, which I think that was a thing I've highlighted it here. Strength is not measured by the weight you carry, but by the love that makes you carry it. Ooh, I just got little chills.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 42:23
And as you say, not why, but what now? I really like that. And I think all of us have a tendency to go into a victim state from time to time. And yeah, that one resonates with me.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 42:36
Very much so.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 42:38
Yeah, thank you, Lindsay. But I think it's human for us to sometimes feel sorry for ourselves, and that's okay, but we mustn't get carried away and just sit in bed every day for a week. We mustn't do that. We've just got to get up and get out and do what we've got to do. Yeah, get our boots on. Thank you. That's been just the most amazing time, Lindsay Zeal.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 43:02
Thank you, Lindsay, for being with us on the Grit Diaries. We know that your— in your sharing will impact many that will be watching, and we hope that one day we might actually meet. That'd be amazing.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 43:16
Yes, well, if I can come over to Aussie, I'll sprint over the pond from South Africa. On the map it doesn't look that far, but it's a long way. But it's worth it. It's worth it.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 43:30
You can find Lindsay on Kintsugi Heroes or in the show notes, and we wish you well, and thank you once again, Lindsay.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 43:38
Thank you so much for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure, even though it's 12 o'clock at night. So thank you very, very much.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 43:46
Thanks, Mon.
Lindsay Ziehl (Guest) · 43:47
Thanks, Maz. Thanks, Lindsay. Thank you for joining us on The Grit Diaries: From Grit to Grace. If today's story has moved you, share it with someone who needs a little hope. Remember, from grit We can find grace, and from grace we can find inspiration. Until next time, look for the joy, keep safe, stay grounded, and never forget that there is a strength within your own story. Take care.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 44:30
Oh!
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