Naomi Yano · 49 min
A psychotherapist who lost her newborn daughter and her marriage within days of each other reveals how validation, self-compassion, and learning to trust her own emotions became the unlikely path back to herself.
Hear this story
Naomi Yano is a psychotherapist in Toronto who lost her newborn daughter and her marriage within days of each other. In 2010, while her second child fought for survival in neonatal intensive care at 24 weeks gestation, Naomi discovered her husband was having an affair. After months of uncertainty at her daughter's bedside, doctors told her the baby had severe brain injury and would need life support indefinitely. Naomi and her husband decided to bring their daughter home and let nature take its course. For four days, Naomi watched her daughter stop breathing and start again, all while learning the affair was still happening. One week after her daughter died, Naomi asked her husband to choose: stay and rebuild the marriage, or leave. He left. Within days, she had lost both her child and her marriage.
What followed was rock bottom. Naomi couldn't eat, couldn't function, couldn't think beyond survival. But small moments began to shift things. A friend's simple validation that her pain made sense gave her back her appetite. Meditation taught her that suffering was optional, separate from pain itself. Over years of self-help groups, therapy, and relentless self-reflection, Naomi stopped accepting her husband's version of events and started trusting what she felt. She realised that many people have difficult marriages, but not all of them choose to have affairs. His choice was his own. Anger became a turning point, telling her that what happened was not okay. She learned that her emotions, even the dark ones, were not problems to fix but information to explore. Now Naomi uses her experience to help others heal from trauma and difficult emotions, especially those who feel alone in their pain. Her message is simple: I see you. You're not alone.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses grief & loss, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au • GriefLine: 1300 845 745 · griefline.org.au
“I finally got to a place where I said wait hang on this is not me”
“I think what I have realized is how do we actually learn to do that it's when other people do it first with us and then we start to hear that voice in our own head and then it becomes our own”
“it was more like a spiral where it feels like you're going in circles but at some point you look back and you're actually on a higher level than you were before”
The hero, today
Naomi learned that 'pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional'-the extra suffering comes from judging herself for being in pain, not from the pain itself. Validation from another person is what teaches us to validate ourselves: 'how do we actually learn to do that? It's when other people do it first with us, and then we start to hear that voice in our own head.' Naomi stopped blaming herself for the affair when she recognised that many people have disconnected marriages but not all of them choose to have affairs, so his choice was his own. Anger served a crucial function in her healing by telling her that what happened was not okay, which was very different from the shame-based belief that everything was her fault. Naomi now sees her emotions, even the dark ones like anger, as information and magic rather than problems, because exploring them deeply gives her access to choices and moves her forward. She carries two key principles forward: be curious and compassionate rather than judgmental, and trust what she feels, because her emotions guide her to the next right thing.
Yes. Naomi Yano is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Naomi learned that 'pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional'-the extra suffering comes from judging herself for being in pain, not from the pain itself.
Validation from another person is what teaches us to validate ourselves: 'how do we actually learn to do that? It's when other people do it first with us, and then we start to hear that voice in our own head.'
Naomi stopped blaming herself for the affair when she recognised that many people have disconnected marriages but not all of them choose to have affairs, so his choice was his own.
Anger served a crucial function in her healing by telling her that what happened was not okay, which was very different from the shame-based belief that everything was her fault.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 00:02
Welcome to the Kintsugi Heroes podcast, where we share inspirational stories of everyday people going through different challenges and how they overcome them. Please be aware that the story you're about to hear may have moments of deeply felt emotions and personal experiences. If anything you hear has a triggering effect, please reach out to someone who can help keep you safe. If you love this conversation, please like and share it with your friends so we can continue to share more inspiration and hope to as many people as possible. Now listen up for our next hero's story. This conversation was with Naomi Yano, and it was another one of those ones where I wish I'd had the tissue box right on the desk in front of me because it was quite harrowing in, in some respects, and yet very beautiful as she unwove all the parts of the story. She experienced major trauma, loss of both a marriage and a newborn baby at the same time. And it was really harrowing for her. And then there was a journey of recovery which took years. And the beautiful thing is that Naomi, through that journey, was able to find her place in the world and find her purpose. And she now specializes in this trauma recovery and helps others to find themselves and heal from these traumas. And, you know, it's really lovely the way that she has expressed herself as a result of this experience. She gives a few tips in the, in the conversation for anybody who's been through any kind of trauma. You will understand and I think really relate to Naomi's story, even if you haven't experience what she did. I'm really grateful for Naomi to share as much as she did. And here we are, it is another episode of Kintsugi Heroes. I have Naomi Yano, and I'm so excited. Thank you for joining me today, Naomi.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 02:16
Hi, thank you for having me here. I'm really excited to be able to share my journey and my story. I am located in Toronto, Canada. I am, I guess professionally, I am a psychotherapist. I work from a model called Emotionally Focused Therapy, and I supervise new therapists as well. But I think most importantly, the reason I'm here today is to share my experience on the other side of the coin of being a client really of therapy. And my journey and story behind my experience in the client's chair and what that was like for me. So perhaps I'll just go ahead and dive into a little bit of my story and what was happening and so forth. Would that be good?
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This conversation includes the life she thought she wanted, a daughter arrives at 24 weeks, the affair discovered mid-crisis, the decision no parent should have to make, four days of dying and breathing and asking him to choose.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 03:10
Yeah, please. Just take us back to the start.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 03:12
Yeah, sure. So wonderful. I'll begin with Just after I graduated, actually, as a therapist. So I, you know, I'd worked for maybe about a year or so. I was married to my husband at the time, and we had a 2-year-old son. And we had decided at the time that I would be a stay-at-home mom. It was a joint decision. It was really important that somebody be home with the kids. I then became pregnant with our second child. And we had just moved to our very first house. So just a very busy period. I had a 2-year-old, I was pregnant, we're in this new house. But at the time, I had felt really kind of disconnected in the marriage, and I wasn't quite sure why. I mean, some part of me was like, this is the life I've always wanted. Like, I'm married, I got, you know, the 2 kids, the house, and, you know, isn't— am I supposed to be happy here? But something just didn't quite feel right. And I thought everything was my fault. Like the reason I wasn't happy, it must be me. I was aware my husband wasn't super happy either. I thought, okay, I'm doing something wrong here, but I don't know what it is, but I got to go fix this. So I was going to therapy and trying to understand what's my problem? What's happening here? And so that was around 2009. In 2010, that's when I was due.. And in February, my daughter arrived extremely premature. So it was 24 and a half weeks into my pregnancy, unexpected. And so she ended up in the neonatal intensive care unit as a result. So that was February 2010. And it was just a roller coaster from there. She was getting sick quite often, just really struggling to survive. At one point, We thought she was gonna die. We were at her bedside saying goodbye to her, and somehow she pulled through, and we didn't expect that. So it was, it was just an utter roller coaster going back and forth to the hospital. During that time, I guess it was by then, it must have been June, I found out that my husband had developed this relationship with a coworker. He didn't want to call it an affair, but I don't know what else you call it. And so, I discovered, oh, okay, so this is happening. And to be quite honest, I did not know how to deal at all. And he said, you know what, I, you know, this is happening. And you know what, I'll end it in a few weeks because, you know, her contract will be done or whatever. I said, okay. And just, I couldn't deal. I let it keep going. So during that period, I just, I don't know, it's happening, whatever. I got to go take care of my daughter. She's dying. I got to take care of my 2-year-old, whatever. So I believed it had ended at the end of June. Actually, sorry, just before that, we found out that my daughter had some severe brain injury and she would not lead a normal life., and she would need machines, equipment for her entire life just to breathe and make her heart beat. Um, and a lot of, you know, she just would not have the cognitive capacity of an average human. So they said, what would you like to do? And we then had to decide what we wanted to do. That was a very, very difficult decision. Um, so we grappled with that. I thought the affair was over. And we decided that we would bring her home and take her off the equipment and just let nature take its course. So in July, we decided to do that and we brought her home. And given how she performed at the hospital, we thought, okay, maybe she's got 24 hours here once we take the equipment off. So we had, you know, the hospital team came with us, we had a chaplain, we planned a ceremony, everything we would do when she passed away. So we took her off the equipment and she was okay for a little bit. And then she started to, you know, stop breathing and so forth. We thought, okay, this is it. And then she started breathing again. And then she would stop breathing. She started breathing again. And later on in the day, the hospital staff had to leave. This wasn't going as planned. So they left. We figured, okay, this is our backup plans and things. She stayed for 4 days. Dying, coming back, dying and coming back. It was horrible. During that period, I logged onto the computer one day and I found out that, oh, this affair is actually continuing. Again, I can't deal. So I just, I knew it was happening and I just left it alone. July 17th, 2010, my daughter passed away. It's sad. Still is sad. And I just had to grieve that while knowing that my husband had this other relationship. So I could only do that for so long. And after, I think, 5 or 6 days, I said, I can't do this anymore. I can't do this. So I sat him down and we had actually quite a nice, calm conversation. I said, look, I know you're still doing this thing. Could you please choose? Are you just going to decide, you know, can you stay here and let's work this out? And if not, just go. I can't, I can't do both. So he thought about it and he said, okay, I'm gonna go. And I said, okay. So he packed his bags and the next morning he left. And again, it was calm and cordial. I mean, I was not doing well, but what could I do? He said goodbye, um, and he left. And it was a little bit tumultuous after that. Long story, he came back, huge fight, left again, and all these sorts of things. But he was gone. So my daughter died and a week later he was gone. And I think that is when I just hit rock bottom. And it was a mess. It was chaos. It was just darkness, pain, all kinds of horrible stuff for a while. For a while, it was just about surviving, really. Just somebody had to tell me, oh, go take a nap. Go drink a glass of water. Go take a bath. Like, I just, I couldn't deal. It was crisis mode. And it took a while for me to just get back to just kind of functioning again, being able to eat, being able to not be a vegetable. It was wonderful. I had a lot of support and family, but there was something about that period where I just did not feel like maybe anybody understood what that was like. It was pretty much 6 weeks between when I found out about the affair and, you know, discovered about the brain injury, had to decide about my daughter, she passed away, and then my ex left. So it was quite traumatic. And, you know, when I think about the process of coming out of that, I, you know, I do kind of wish I could say there was one light bulb moment when everything changed. But really, it wasn't like that. It was sort of this back and forth, coming and going in some ways of things getting better and then not, or thinking things were better and then not, sort of this one step forward, two steps back kind of thing. And when I think about it, actually, I think about change, you know, I used to describe it or think about it as this sort of a linear— if you imagine a linear graph, what is sort of the one step forward, three steps back, one step forward, and eventually you get to a higher place. But I realized it wasn't quite like that. It was more like— because sometimes it really felt like I'm going in circles, like I'm in the same place over and over. And I realize now it's more kind of like a spiral where it feels like you're going in circles. But at some point you look back and you're actually on a higher level than you were before. It's like it feels like you're going around, but you're actually going up. There's something familiar but different each time. And that is, I think that was mostly my experience. When I look back now, I'm like, whoa, I'm actually in an entirely different place. But how did I get here? Because a lot of it felt quite repetitive. So, you know, when I think about the things that happened, there are, you know, in some ways so So many small things that I can begin to talk about that created perhaps the steps to that change in the end. So perhaps the first one that I kind of mentioned was just the immediate kind of crisis management, which, you know, when a person— when I was not well, I could not do on my own. I needed other people to intervene and support. And so there was that piece in the immediate sort of aftermath. I think the second shift for me was when somebody suggested I do mindfulness-based stress reduction or mindfulness meditation. And I didn't think it would work. I didn't think it would help. Like, how is meditation going to help me with anything? But I think what I realized is what that taught me to do was to notice that how I felt about how I felt actually changed everything as a starting point. Because it was this idea that when I was in pain and I felt or thought that something was wrong with me because I'm in pain, then that actually would make the pain worse. But if I could be in pain and say, this is normal, there's nothing wrong with you, it still hurts. That saying, pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional. That, that's sort of the idea here. I now take away that extra layer of pain. I still got to deal with it, but now I'm not doubling the suffering that I'm in. So that for me was a huge first step. Step, but I still had to deal with the pain now. So I think maybe that a second thing that started to come along was this idea of self-compassion, that not only would I not judge myself, but I would actually be quite loving and kind to myself about all the distress that I was in. So rather than beating myself up or even being neutral, it became a, of course this hurts. Of course this is awful. The way we would talk to a friend. And again, the pain is still there, but it starts to be a little bit more tolerable when we are gentle and kind in that place. So those were some of the sort of the beginning ways of just being able to sit with the pain. I remember the day that I got my appetite back, and that was actually huge. And it was such a simple thing. I had gone to a friend's house and, you know, I had been telling this story to so many people about what just happened. And yet somehow I could, I just, I couldn't eat. It didn't matter how many people I told, I just could not eat. And I realized she said something to me and suddenly I could eat. And all, I don't even remember the words, but it was something, the message I got was something like, "Yeah, of course." And there was the thing in that was just this idea that it makes sense that you feel that. And it really, the word that comes to mind is just validation. Because I think I had told that story to so many people. And although they supported me, they never actually gave a message that landed that, of course, you feel this way. You're not crazy. I would feel that too. And as soon as she did that, I started to eat again. So that was huge for me, just this sense that somebody understands my experience and it's valid. And I think it was so important to notice that, you know, we often talk about self-soothing and being, you know, wanting to be strong on our own and be able to do it on our own. And I think what I have realized is, how do we actually learn to do that? It's when other people do it first with us, and then we start to hear that voice in our own head, and then it becomes our own. Because when she did that and other people started to do that, then I started to be able to do that myself. And then I didn't have to have them do that for me all the time, but it had to start with somebody else. And that's okay. That's okay if it starts with somebody else helping you do the thing that maybe you can't So that's what I learned there. And I think once I finally started in some ways to calm down, really, when I was being validated, when I was telling myself and people were telling me, "You make sense. It's okay to feel all of this." That's when, again, perhaps there was another shift where I could actually start to think about what happened instead of just being in the emotion of it and being swept away. And swimming in some storm constantly, it was starting to calm down. And when it started to calm down, I started to be able to think and reflect and go, how did this actually happen? How did I get here? But I couldn't have gotten there without all those things happening first. And so that's when I— and this was probably maybe 2 years in now. Okay. It took me a long time to get to that place where I could reflect. And, you know, I was asking questions the whole time, but it wasn't for a number of years until I actually had the kind of cognitive capacity to really think more deeply about what was happening. And that's when I started asking some really good questions, because initially he kind of told me it was all my fault and I just bought it, which of course just created more pain and suffering for myself. But I finally got to a place where I said, wait, hang on, no, I didn't make anybody do anything. Lots of people might have disconnected marriages or difficult relationships, but they don't all decide— one partner doesn't decide to have an affair in every single one of those. Some people go to counseling, some people get a divorce, like you do all kinds of things. But not everybody has an affair. So hang on, this is not me. You know, and that was— I had the awareness to be able to start to think about that. But at the same time, I was also aware Well, how did I end up being in a disconnected marriage? What was my share in influencing the state of our relationship that we could keep going like that? And I didn't leave, or I didn't say, let's go to counseling, or whatever it was. So, you know, for a period, I was also asking myself, how did I show up here to end up in this kind of a situation? And also, you know, what kind of person, you know, was my husband that he might make these choices? Now, I've never gotten any answers from him, and that's okay. But I think what I've had to do as a result is just do my best to create some kind of coherent narrative while still being compassionate to him. I'm not, you know, going to entirely throw him under the bus and say he's just an evil person, but, you know, really try and figure out Why do people who go into these relationships not meaning to hurt anybody end up making these choices that are hurtful? And so I've done a lot of exploration then on just relationship dynamics. Why do people make the choices that they do, both for myself and for him? And when I could actually come up with a meaningful way of making sense of it other than it was just my fault, then it also helped me, I guess, I think going forward to go, okay, I think I know how I'm going to show up so that this doesn't ever happen again, because I am going to do something differently in all my relationships going forward that I will not allow a dynamic or a person in my life who might make those kinds of choices. So that was a huge— and I could talk about that in and of itself for like half an hour, just the principles and things I learned about relationships and healthy relationships and communication and so forth. But I think maybe one of the— if I could pull a snippet out of that, it would be something like I learned that what I feel and experience is something that's worth trusting. That if I feel like something's not okay and somebody tells me why it's not okay, they might be right, but maybe, maybe they're not. Maybe there's something I might have to offer that is just as, as valid. Um, because I think what I realized is I didn't feel okay, and then my ex-husband would tell me all the reasons why, and they were always all my fault, and I bought it. But I didn't trust that maybe there's an alternative here, and if I listened to myself, maybe I would also find some very good answers about why I'm not okay and not just listen to what he's telling me. So I think that's a huge part that's shaped how I show up in relationships is that capacity to trust myself now and that all of that is going to help guide me. Going forward. So if anything, I would actually say that I don't feel like I've gone back to where I was before this all happened. I do kind of feel like I'm in an entirely different place. And so if any of this were to happen again, I mean, I certainly hope it doesn't, but I imagine that it would all feel different for me. It would not be— it'd still be hard, but it would not be as nearly devastating because of the person that I have become through that process. So that is my best summary of, I think, this learning. And within that, there's so many pieces, right, that I could, I could take apart and describe in, in more detail at the same time. Yeah.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 22:16
Sorry for the interruption. This is Ian Westmoreland, the founder of Kintsugi Heroes, and thank you for listening to this story from one of our amazing heroes. Our mission is for these stories to provide hope and inspiration to people experiencing life challenges and to also educate the broader community on how best to provide support. If you would like to help us continue to produce more hero stories and cover more adversity themes, we would welcome all donations. These can be made via our website kitsukiheroes.com.au. The donate function is at the bottom of the home page.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 22:52
We'd also welcome any feedback.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 22:54
You can email me direct using ian@kitsukiheroes.com.au.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 23:00
Kintsugiheroes.com.au. Now let's get back to the story.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 23:07
Wow, Naomi, that's really powerful and insightful as well with your summary and, and that perspective of your learnings and how you were able to integrate those and become a different version of yourself, which just beautiful, of course. It's lovely. It's why you're able to share the story today. Um, I've got a couple of questions. When you hit rock bottom, first of all, how, how were you in relationship to your 2-year-old? Because I could imagine, yeah, you're a mother actually as well.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 23:44
Yeah.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 23:45
How did he get, he get impacted through that time?
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 23:48
Yeah, it's interesting because I, I think I might have handled— I would handle it differently now than I did back then. But back then, um, initially I just did my best to hide it from him because I didn't want him to feel like he had to take care of me or that he did something wrong or, um, that, you know, he had to do something about it. Um, and so I, I remember, you know, we— I, because I was a stay-at-home parent, we would be walking down the street, I'd have him in the stroller, and I would be balling, but he's facing the road or the sidewalk so he wouldn't see me. But as soon as we're getting close to the toy store or the library, I clean up, calm down, turn the stroller around. Hey, we're at the library, right? We do our books, put him back in the stroller, go back. I'm bawling. And that's what I would do because I just, I didn't want him to be upset by it. And I think, you know, there is sort of this fine line where I don't want him to be the caregiver. So I want to help him see he doesn't have to do that. But I also want to model for him, because I think I realized I didn't do this, that it's okay to cry and break down, right? That I'm just being human. And it's actually a disservice to hide that from him. So I think in retrospect, I think, you know, actually maybe I would want him to have seen me cry sometimes and I would want him to see what mom does when she's upset because he doesn't have to take care of me. I mean, sure, he can give me all these hugs and love, but he's not responsible. Look, mom's calling her friend. Look, mom's calling her therapist. Look, mom's talking to somebody. Mom's okay because somebody else is taking care of mom. And, you know, I'm not the only one who has to make sure she's okay. Lots of people are helping. Her. And, you know, I kind of see the opportunity I missed in some ways to let him see it's normal to hurt and to get help.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 25:53
Thank you for that. And what about your support network? You've mentioned this a number of times, and it sounds like you're very connected and you had good friends. How— tell me about that network and how important and how close they were to you.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 26:07
Yeah, I had quite a few different kinds of support networks. Again, when I was in the rock bottom, I was kind of frantic actually about like getting help, being support, being supported, reaching out, maybe a little over the top about it, like in some ways, because I was calling everybody. And I think part of it was this need for I don't think I recognized it at the time, but I would call different people. And if the response didn't help me, I would then call the next person. And if I still didn't feel better, I would call the next person and so forth. And there were a lot of, you know, wonderful, loving, well-meaning people out there. But I think I started to notice what responses felt good and which ones didn't. They were all well-meaning, but some didn't help. Like, I remember one friend, who said something like, oh, your ex is just, you know, he's going through a midlife crisis. He'll be back next week. Don't worry about it. And I knew she meant well because, I mean, she knew him and she thought, you know, this is not like him. Don't worry. But it didn't feel good because I'm like, no, you have no idea. So it landed as kind of a dismissive and I didn't feel good. I know she meant well, but that response didn't help me. Or sometimes, you know, people would say, Oh yeah, okay, I hear you. That's hard. And again, they mean well, but it's like, you don't get how hard it is. So I was constantly, you know, lots of friends and, you know, some friends I became closer to, some friends fell to the wayside because of how we could interact around that. But then beyond that, I probably went to like every self-help group related to all these different topics that you could probably imagine. Like I was in, you know, a grief support group a couple of them, you know, if you lose a child or if you lose a loved one. I was in a, you know, separation support group, right, for people whose marriages are leading to separation or divorce. I was in an affair recovery group, at least one anyway, talking to people that were dealing with an affair. I was doing just, you know, depression and anxiety group. I was like, you know, you name it, I was in it because I was frantic. To get some support. So there's quite a few different groups that I reached out. I don't regret any of it. I mean, I kind of laugh at myself with like how many groups I was involved in. But I do believe very much so that community is healing and that going it alone can actually make it a lot harder. So there is something about being able to share your story with people who get it and say, ah yeah, me too, that helps that process just be a little bit easier. So there are all kinds of niche groups out there for everything really, now that I look back on it. So it was helpful for me to find all those places, although I do want to say at that particular time— I think it's a little bit different now— at that particular time, the one thing that did not seem to exist is, uh, somebody recovering, first of all, from infant loss by themselves without their partner, and somebody recovering from an affair without their partner. I had a double whammy there, but I could not find places to go with that particular kind of loss. Most people who lose a child, they're still married or together or in partnership. Most, most people— not all— most people who go through affairs actually stay together, more than 75%. So there wasn't a lot there for me.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 31:41
Right?
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 31:41
Because you still got 2. So pick which one I can take away.' No. Right? 'You can have another one.' No, it doesn't replace the person you lost. And I think it hurt even more at that time because they didn't know that my husband had left.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 31:57
Right.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 31:58
So first of all, it's not going to replace the child. And second of all, I don't even have a husband to have a child with. So like, that was horrible. Absolutely horrible to hear. I think another one that was— sorry, I've got a few, but another awful one. It's not terrible. I've got a few of them. Another awful one was I had told somebody that during this period that I was a therapist. And that I had done couple therapy, and they said to me, "Well, you know, what kind of therapist are you? Obviously it didn't work." And same thing, it's like, wow, it's my fault the relationship didn't work. It was only me, right? And I should know better, I should have fixed it and made him stay. I'm like, no, no. But in that moment, I just felt utterly, you know, ashamed of myself. You're right, what kind of couple therapist can't be married? It's all my fault. Terrible thing to say.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 32:52
Yeah, yeah.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 32:53
Wow.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 32:54
Really unconscious. Really so judgmental. And was there any other big ones? Because I like drawing these out for the listeners because we're all human and it's sometimes unconscious programming that causes people to say these things.. And if they can learn from this, then I'd love to draw this out.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 33:18
Aveline Clark (Host) · 43:44
Wonderful. And that's just really not being scared to acknowledge your feelings and express what was there at the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 43:54
To let your feelings be a feeling. That's all that it needs to be sometimes. Sometimes the feeling turns into a choice or an action, but sometimes it's just the feeling that you notice so you can understand what's happening in your body.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 44:07
With the, with your healing journey, and obviously you said that you read every book and you were obviously going, having a different groups, but then you get on, went on this massive journey and you're already a qualified therapist. Did this give you a passion to go into a particular area? Like to serve, in service in terms of your work?
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 44:29
Yes.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 44:29
Did the whole experience sort of change your direction?
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 44:32
Yes. And it's actually gotten clearer and clearer as I've gone along. And I think now, sorry, the theme in my book and sort of my focus now, it's moved from sort of generally, you know, like kind of grief, loss, infidelity recovery, trauma recovery, that sort of thing. To a very sort of niche idea, which is how do I heal from difficult emotions, experiences, pain, trauma? How do I heal when I feel like I'm all alone? What does that actually look like or feel like when I feel like I'm by myself in this? What does healing look like? So that is sort of my focal point right now because that was my story. Right? And, um, and you can, you can heal when you think you are alone. Maybe I'll put it that way. It felt like I was alone, but was I? And, um, you know, even when physically there's nobody there, how do we still find our way out of that darkness? So, uh, that is a big piece of, of, of my focus.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 45:42
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 46:09
You've done—
Aveline Clark (Host) · 46:10
it's just so inspiring to hear it, and I love all of your insights. As we're sort of— you're looking down the path, you know, in, in hindsight, down the journey path, and you're looking— are there any kind of other key insights or any magic that's, that's sort of sitting there for you? Anything that's come out? Doesn't have to be a lesson or anything, but if there's— is there anything that you want to share?
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 46:34
I think maybe that the two principles perhaps that I think are really important for me that I take with me even today. The first one is just be curious and compassionate. This idea of not judging, but just, just be curious. Why do I feel that? And can we do it with kindness, right? Why is this happening? Even in the other person, why did they do that, right? And I think the second one is around my emotions. And I kind of alluded to this earlier, the way that I think of my emotions today, they are actually like my superpower. Um, what I feel is magic, actually. When, when I can just let it be a feeling, it doesn't have to be a behavior. When I just let it be a feeling and I sit with it and I explore it and I actually go deeper into it, even if it's a so-called negative or dark experience or something that seems scary like anger, or even happiness and joy. When I feel those and I go more deeply into that, that's actually where there's all kinds of magic that I can access and information that takes me to the next thing that I'm going to do. And if I can listen to that, I can find all kinds of choices and options that move me forward and have been moving me forward, uh, to this place where I am now, where I know what I want to do with my life. I feel content. I, you know, it just, life feels good in this place. It's not perfect, but I can have the darkness and the happiness and, and, um, still be at ease with pain, suffering, and joy because it's all very real.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 48:20
Yeah, it's all part of the experience as a human.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 48:24
It is.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 29:52
That's an interesting stat. And yeah, definitely you were in a very, uh, niche segment, segment of, you know, this loss market. It's, um, yeah, it would have been really, really really difficult. Um, and yet, like you said, what we want is validation. We want someone to validate us and understand us. And going through an affair, I could imagine there's those feelings of, you know, maybe I, I, I— and I'm only guessing, of course— that you could easily have turned on yourself to blame yourself.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 30:29
Oh, I did.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 30:30
Yeah. Asking them, well, why me?
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 30:32
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, not uncommon. And yeah, absolutely. You know, maybe, maybe I wasn't enough, right? I'm not good enough. I'm not desirable. I made him leave.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 30:44
Yeah.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 30:45
And it's a horrible, horrible place to be in that and then be alone in that.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 30:51
Definitely. Was there, was there ever a person in your circles or the groups that said something that was particularly unhelpful, as in it actually made the recovery harder? You know what I mean? Like it was really unconstructive or unhelpful feedback. I'd really be interested.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 31:10
There's probably a few, a few of them. The one that— the first one that came to mind, actually, um, and, and this wasn't about the affair recovery, but it was about the infant loss, um, that a well-meaning person said to me 'Well, you can always have another one, another child.' Yeah. Yeah. And wow. You know, and, you know, since then I've thought, you know, it's kind of like saying to somebody who's got 3 kids, 'Well, which one could die? Which one could you lose?
Yeah. So the other message, and I don't remember this being sort of a statement or a single moment, but more of like a general message that sometimes I think we get in our culture or society is the shame around infidelity, which is something like, okay, well, you know, maybe I wasn't putting out enough, or maybe I didn't give him enough reason to stay because I was not sexual enough or not attractive enough or whatever it was. So there's that, I think, as sort of a general, more of a subtle, indirect thing that can be communicated as well. Yeah, definitely.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 34:06
What a fascinating experience to actually see all of this and have to go through it personally and integrate all of that on a personal level and try and get out the other side.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 34:19
Yeah, it's still whole. Yeah, well, I think, you know, if one of the things that I'm actually quite, you know, someone's grateful for coming out of it on this end is that I can look back and I could see it from two different perspectives simultaneously, which is quite fascinating because in one way I can go through these memories and in the moment I was just in them. But now, you know, I've done more training since I came out of that, you know.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 34:49
Oh yeah.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 34:50
In addition to all the groups, like I read every book I could about infidelity, about relationships. I read all these grief recovery books. Like I became these specialist in this niche thing that nobody was offering me resources to, right? So the benefit though is professionally with all of that information, I look back and I look at these memories and moments and I go, ah, I understand what was happening for me. I understand why that was traumatic. I understand why I couldn't do what I needed to do. And I understand now why this intervention or this thing helped, right? Like I was talking about validation, you know, from a neurobiological perspective, I can now talk about you know, why that calmed me down and how that helped me to get to eat again. And I could, you know, reflect back and go, ah, this makes sense. So can I now share this information with other people to help them understand as a therapist what's happening in their body and what they need and how they can move forward? Because on this side of it, it actually makes a lot of sense now. In a way, it did not when I was in the middle of it and when I was not, you know, the therapist that I am today that has this extra information. In light of all of this, you know, one of the things that I am, I have started doing and am doing, one of my projects is to put it into a book so that I have this on the one hand, this firsthand narrative, kind of like a memoir, right? This is what's happening to me. But what I'm also doing is I've got like these little text boxes where I describe clinically what's happening in those moments. And if you're not interested in them, you just skip past them, read the memoir. But if you are actually interested in what's happening, you could read more of the clinical side of what's happening in my brain or, you know, the relational dynamic or the reason why I'm feeling this and why I'm coping the way that I am, because I do believe that understanding is so powerful in helping us know what our choices and options are. To get better.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 36:49
Absolutely. I love that. That it's like a memoir/case study on yourself.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 36:55
It is pretty much, yeah, memoir/self-help kind of a thing.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 36:58
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. Um, given all of your knowledge on this, I want to touch on the one topic that you've mentioned a couple of times, and that is, uh, not eating. Because we've all— well, what we know, our friends, we know that there are times when we go through relationship breakups or we're really traumatized about something, we go through this period where we just don't have an appetite. And I've seen it, I've experienced it, you've talked about it.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 37:26
Yeah.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 37:27
Could you share your knowledge around what causes that?
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 37:31
Yeah. Um, so I'll try and give a little bit of a short answer because again, we could talk at length about it. When you think about, um, being stressed, being anxious. Some people have different responses to that, right, but a lot of people have this loss of appetite. Some people might have, you know, extraordinary tension, or their muscles get tight, or, you know, different symptoms. But really what we're talking about is I'm anxious and I'm stressed and I'm worried, and that's manifesting in my stomach, in the inability to eat, the loss of appetite, right, or I'm depressed And so when we think of it that way, as sort of this symptom of depression or anxiety, what we want to look at is how do we help the nervous system to, you know, in some ways be soothed, right? To come out of that stressful place and be a little bit more relaxed. Because when we're relaxed, we can eat. We love eating. When we're stressed, we're in survival mode, on high alert. We don't care about these things. We're just trying to survive. And eating doesn't feel like top of mind. We just got to get through the experience. So when you think of it that way, that there's a lot of different sorts of interventions that are going to help us be a bit more relaxed. For me, the biggest one, as I mentioned earlier, is this validation piece, because if you— I'm going to go into a little bit of neurobiology here for a sec, because if you think about the stress response response in the brain. There is a particular region of the brain that's active, the limbic area, and, you know, some of the fight or flight kind of responses. And when that's happening, we're in stress or high alert. The rational part of our brain is actually— there's not a whole lot of activity there. So when you think about it, if you're really stressed out, someone's trying to tell you, oh, this is just what you need to do, like, you don't care, right? If you're just stressed out, you can't, you don't really care that what's true or real. It might still be true or real, but you, it's, it's insignificant to you. And so part of what we need to do is decrease that activity in order for the rational brain to come back. And one of the most powerful ways to decrease that stress response is actually validation. It's actually, yeah, I feel that too. You are so normal to be stressed. It makes sense you don't want to eat. I wouldn't want to eat either. And when we get that, our body starts to go, ah. And when our body goes, ah, then we can start to function and come back online and problem solve and do kinds of other things. But I don't think we realize the power of just allowing our bodies to feel and making space to, I think, not only feel, to feel, give words to it, but for somebody to respond to it and be with that in the feeling is more powerful than I think we often talk about or recognize. So I don't know if that quite answers your question. But, um, it's, uh, it does.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 40:50
And thank you for taking us into that because I think it's such a common physiological neurological response. And hopefully that was really helpful to our listeners to understand that.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 41:01
Yeah. Yeah.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 41:02
And when, when you said the, the antidote or the, you know, what, what the, what the answer was to relieving that, I was like, you know, hence that, what, hence they're waiting for your answer. And then you said validation. I'm like, Oh, of course, yes. And then, yeah, like, oh, absolutely. That's what human beings want. This is what we crave. We want to be understood and validated to say, yeah, you're okay.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 41:27
Yeah, yeah. And, and that is actually huge in our mental health and well-being.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 41:33
Yeah. And that's, that's one of the reasons why— yeah, and that's what Kintsugi— this is why, one of the reasons why we're doing this, so that people can feel understood. As well, even if they don't— you don't know them personally, you know, they're, they're listening to this and they're feeling understood as a result.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 41:50
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 41:52
What a beautiful, beautiful, um, story. Uh, question about part of your, your healing journey, I guess. Was there a pivotal point or something that was a turning point for you to come out of that darkness, you know, the bleakness, and be on that journey out?
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 42:14
Yeah, it— I think one of the— again, lots of key moments kind of coming and going, but I think one of the pivotal moments was actually letting myself be mad. Um, because I think for most of the darkness it was just pain, loss, suffering, shame. But as soon as I could start to feel angry, something started to change because the anger for me was saying, that wasn't okay. And, and that was very different from it's all my fault. And I think sometimes people get scared of anger or think it's unhelpful. And I think I want people to recognize that, you know, anger in and of itself is not good or bad. We want to look at what is the function of my anger? What is my anger telling me? And can I use that information in a way that's actually going to help me? I think sometimes people get afraid of anger because it means I'm going to punch a wall. Well, it doesn't have to mean you punch a wall. It just might mean that your body goes, this is not okay anymore, and I'm going to draw a boundary, or I'm going to tell this person no, I'm going to say not, not anymore, enough. So I think for me to allow myself to be mad. And again, say, this is here for a reason. What's it telling me? Was a big opening perhaps to other options.
Lovely. I think a lot of people will be able to relate to that.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 45:45
Yeah, yeah.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 45:49
So I'm excited about what you're doing.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 45:51
Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of our suffering is from that sense of being alone.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 45:57
Um, Naomi, thank you so much for sharing this beautiful, uh, account, I guess, of such a painful and, um, the road less traveled journey on largely on your own.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 48:25
Sounds like you've embraced all of it, and it's, it's wonderful to hear your perspective on that and how the— your emotions have become your superpowers. Yeah, beautiful way to put it. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I have a final question for you, and that is, if, if there's someone listening to this who is going through any aspect of what they've heard from your journey is there something you'd like to share with them?
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 48:53
The 3 words might simply be, I see you. I tear up when I say that because it just—
Aveline Clark (Host) · 49:01
I know.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 49:02
Yeah, just simply, I see you. You're not alone.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 49:06
I see you.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 49:06
Yeah.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 49:09
Oh, what a perfect way to end. Thank you so much, Naomi. Thank you. So appreciate your story and What you've, what you've shared today is going to help a lot of people, and I love what you're doing in your, in your work and your life, and just want to acknowledge that too.
Naomi Yano (Guest) · 49:25
Thank you so much.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 49:27
We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Kintsugi Heroes. Please like and share the show to your friends so we can get this out to even more people. If you have a story you'd like to share with us, please reach out using the contact details below. Join us next week for our next hero story. Until then, keep being you, and remember that we are all heroes in our own unique way.
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