Remeny Armitage · 51 min
After losing her stillborn son James at 26 weeks, Remeny Armitage found her way back to life through community, hope, and the radical act of never forgetting him.
Hear this story
At 36, single and hoping to build a family, Remeny Armitage met her husband online and fell in love fast. Within months they were engaged, and after three years of trying and one failed IVF cycle, she became pregnant naturally. The 20-week scan showed a healthy baby boy. They named him James.
At 26 weeks, James stopped moving. The hospital confirmed what Remeny already knew: her son had died. She carried him for three more days before going into labour. The birth was physically brutal, and the midwife's coldness added cruelty to an already unbearable moment. Remeny came home with an empty car seat, fever-sick and shattered. For weeks she couldn't leave the house. She couldn't face the world or the people who, with the best intentions, told her she'd get over it, that James was in God's arms, that she could have another baby. None of it helped. Only other mothers who had lost children understood.
That online community of lost mothers saved her life. Eleven years later, she still calls them FIMPs (Friends in My Pocket). Eleven weeks after James died, Remeny had a dream where she held a nine-month-old baby and heard a voice telling her to get stronger for her future children. She got pregnant that week. Luke was born in October, just before the one-year mark of losing James. Alex followed seventeen months later. Remeny learned that grief doesn't disappear. You get stronger. You learn to carry the weight. Your child stays with you, always part of who you are and who you become. She still marks James's birthday and Christmas. She visits his grave. And she built her whole business around listening to people, because she knows the sacred weight of being truly heard.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses grief & loss and suicide & self-harm prevention, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au • GriefLine: 1300 845 745 · griefline.org.au
“You don't get over losing your child you just get stronger and I think that goes with all grief is you grow stronger daily so you can carry the weight of the grief.”
“Without them I don't know if I would have survived.”
“I had one moment when I didn't know if I was gonna get through it — it seemed easier just to leave the world.”
The hero, today
People's well-meaning comments-'you'll get over it', 'he's in God's arms', 'you can have another one'-made things worse, and only other mothers who had lost children understood what Remeny was actually experiencing. The online community of lost mothers, people she still calls FIMPs (Friends in My Pocket) eleven years later, was the single thing that saved her life when she couldn't leave the house and couldn't face the world. Remeny doesn't get over losing James, but she got stronger; grief doesn't disappear, it becomes a weight she learned to carry day by day, and she still marks his birthday and Christmas eleven years later. After the pregnancy where she lost James, Remeny became emotionally hard and detached as a survival mechanism, and it took a full year or more to feel her emotions coming back, which taught her about empathy and how big losses change who you are. If you suspect your baby's movements are abnormal during pregnancy, either unusually high or low, or if you think you're leaking amniotic fluid, get checked immediately and don't accept being turned away, because these signs can save a baby's life. Remeny built her entire business around listening to people and giving them a voice, because she learned that the kindness of people who truly listened and stayed present was what held her up when she felt like falling.
Yes. Remeny Armitage is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
People's well-meaning comments-'you'll get over it', 'he's in God's arms', 'you can have another one'-made things worse, and only other mothers who had lost children understood what Remeny was actually experiencing.
The online community of lost mothers, people she still calls FIMPs (Friends in My Pocket) eleven years later, was the single thing that saved her life when she couldn't leave the house and couldn't face the world.
Remeny doesn't get over losing James, but she got stronger; grief doesn't disappear, it becomes a weight she learned to carry day by day, and she still marks his birthday and Christmas eleven years later.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 00:03
Welcome to the Kintsugi Heroes podcast, where we share inspirational stories of everyday people going through different challenges and how they overcome them. Please be aware that the story you're about to hear may have moments of deeply felt emotions and personal experiences. If anything you hear has a triggering effect, please reach out to someone who can help keep you safe. If you love this conversation, please like and share it with your friends so we can continue to share more inspiration and hope to as many people as possible. Now listen up for our next hero's story. And in this episode, I met with the lovely Remedy Armitage as she shared with me her story of giving birth to a stillborn baby. This is a tearjerker episode. Full disclosure, yet it's one worth listening to because it goes into the depths of the journey of loss of a parent, a new mum, and what really goes on, and also how she navigated those days afterwards and how she navigated life and dealing with people, what worked and what didn't, and how people's comments, unintentional, well-meaning comments, made things a lot worse. She talked about her support networks, what got her through, and also what people can do to make things easier for someone who is in her situation. And I'm sure we've all heard of someone who has been through this situation, and often we don't really know what to say or do when someone loses a child. But she gives us all of that, and she came away from it feeling much better for sharing her story in, in such detail. And I was very grateful that she was able to do so with such vulnerability and care and love. So here you have Remini Armitage. Here we are. It's another episode of Kintsugi Heroes, and I'm here with Remini Armitage from the UK. Hello, Remini, how are you?
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 02:21
Yeah, hi, thanks, I'm fine. How are you?
Aveline Clark (Host) · 02:24
Very, very well. Thank you so much for joining me on the show. I really am grateful for you coming along and being open to sharing your story.
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After the pregnancy where she lost James, Remeny became emotionally hard and detached as a survival mechanism, and it took a full year or more to feel her emotions coming back, which taught her about empathy and how big losses change who you are.
This conversation includes single at 36, wanting more, a whirlwind that felt right, three years of trying, then ivf, all the checks come back clear, the night everything stopped and labour with no life at the end.
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 02:33
Thanks, I'm looking forward to it.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 02:35
Good. Um, well, this is where I get to hand the mic over, really, and I'd love you to take us back to the beginning. Uh, where does your story start?
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 02:44
Well, I guess if I was to start it at the age of 36, when I was single and looking for the person I wanted to end up with, of course, you know, it had taken me a while, and I always knew I wanted to be married and have kids. And, you know, I'd given up a career in acting, and I'd focused my life on work with the hope that I'd find the right person. And, um, eventually I did. Amazingly, online I met my husband, um, and we clicked straight away. And the— by the second date, we started talking about children and coming up with ridiculous names for our future children. Slightly bonkers, but you know, it was obviously meant to be. Um, and within 3 months, we were, uh, we were saying we loved each other, and within Within 6 months, we were engaged. So it was a whirlwind romance, and, you know, it was, it was meant to be. Um, during the time, you know, once we had decided we were made for each other, um, we— and we knew we were getting married— we were saying, well, you know, I'm not— I wasn't a spring chicken, so it was time to start thinking about children because we both wanted them. So, um, we started trying, and everyone said we were mad. How could we possibly think about getting married and having a wedding with, um, and potentially getting pregnant? But of course, uh, that worry wasn't, uh, didn't happen. We didn't get pregnant, and we still didn't get pregnant, and we were getting worried. So we got married, and then 3 years later, we were still trying, um, and eventually we used our savings for IVF, went through that whole process. And, um, it— the first time we tried it, um, it— we lost the, um, the fetus straight, you know, within sort of the first few weeks. So that it kind of didn't work. We were told to wait for a whole, um, in the next cycle, um, after, um, and, uh, during that cycle, uh, miracle upon miracles, I got pregnant. So we were overjoyed, um, I'm already getting emotional. Um, and so yes, so I couldn't have been happier. Um, I, uh, that pregnancy we went, got, um, the check— checked for, um, all the, the illnesses, the Down's and everything, and we were thrilled to hear that everything was going to be fine. And we had a healthy baby boy, got a little video and photos, and, and everything was going fine. And I was always a little bit worried because I wanted to Obviously I wanted to share it with everyone, but I didn't. I shared it with my closest family and friends, and, um, and I was getting bigger and bigger, and obviously people knew, but I didn't do the dreaded Facebook announcement till, um, sort of I got past 25 weeks, and I thought, right, okay, I've got to share this. I'm too excited. I'm going to do it, which I did, even though I felt nervous about it, um, and, um Then, you know, then one evening we were watching TV and my baby was getting very active, and I thought, you know, look, he was bouncing around and very strong. And then I went to bed, and in the night it went quiet. I knew something was wrong. I, um, I had a bath to try and wake him up, and I couldn't. Um, um, so, uh, yeah, that was pretty bad. Um, it was a bad night. Um, in the morning, I was in a panic, so we did the dreaded drive to the hospital. Um, and of course, uh, we were told the worst news. You know, that he'd gone. And I didn't believe it. My husband didn't believe it. And, um, it just seemed unreal. Um, our so-wanted poor baby's gone. Um, so I was 26 weeks pregnant, um, and, um, and then I had to wait 3 or 4 days, uh, uh, before we went back to the hospital. So I had to take a pill, and, um, we named him James, um, and then went back to the hospital and, um, went through labor. Um, but there's a difference between going through labor and the labor pains when you know that you're giving birth to a baby who's not going to be alive. And it was— although he was small, of course he wasn't helping to get out, you know. And, um, I got very ill. I got a fever, and, um, they thought I might not make it myself. Um, uh, but, um, I did. And I mean, I then, um, gave birth and, uh, was left for 4 hours, um, uncleaned. Um, and they took James away and And eventually the midwife came in and she'd obviously been upset, but she was— said, you know, because I was in pain and I was still in the bed that I'd given birth.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 08:12
And he—
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 08:13
she, um, said, well, I'm dealing with your baby, and was very uncompassionate. And it was a terrible, terrible time. Um, and then eventually he was brought to me and, um, you know, we spent time with him and It was hard, and we were allowed to stay with him for a couple of days. Um, we had a special room, so it was, you know, it was a good thing. We were told about, um, grief midwives, and we were encouraged to reach out to a particular grief midwife, and which we did later on. Um, and, um, we went home, and that journey home was just beyond anything because, you know, had the car seat and everything, um, but obviously not with our baby, um. And then the next, um, we— I was on maternity leave. I was allowed to be on maternity leave, um, and so I took 3 months off. But, you know, for the first little bit, I felt so lost and so afraid to go out because of course everyone knew me as pregnant. And, um, suddenly, you know, I couldn't face the questions and I couldn't— I felt like I was getting mad. I couldn't function. I couldn't get out. I couldn't— it was November, so it's getting close to Christmas. And, um, one of the things that I, um, you know, saw was when we got back, kind of stars in the sky. There was one star in the sky, and I felt that that was a sign that it was James and he was okay. And, and so from then on, stars were part of, um my life. He— I see him as a star in the sky, and, you know, so I started collecting stars. So that Christmas, the house was just filled with stars, um, and my friend bought a star and named it after him. Sorry. Um, but anyway, um, so those few months were awful, um, terrifying. But I, I met a group of women who were, um, going through the same thing as me. It was an online community of lost mums, and we all thought we were going mad in some form because we couldn't get out of the house and we couldn't see people, we couldn't do things. And but we had each other. And, um, I think they— without them, I don't know if I would have survived. Because one of the problems was, you know, people would say, oh, you'll get over it, you know, it was meant to be, he's in God's arms. I wanted to smack them. Um, it was such a— it was just, you know, you can have another one, and you know, it's not James. Um, so yeah, that didn't help. So the only people that really, um, you know, that understood were people who'd gone through it. And there were lots of, you know, my parents were amazing, and my closest friends were amazing, and I knew that I could call them at any time and they were there for me. And so I was so grateful for that. But yes, it was the community of loss women that I'm still friends with today, 11 years later. They are— we refer to each other as FIMPs, Friends in My Pocket, and we've— I've met a couple of them, but we're still a community of, you know, lost mums, you know. But it's amazing we had each other, so that helped. Um, but that, that, um time, um, was obviously incredibly dark. Um, and, you know, I had one moment when I didn't know if I was gonna get through it. And, um, it seemed easier just to leave the world, um, and not continue because I wasn't afraid of death anymore because I knew that James was going to be at the other side. But, um, I couldn't do it. I didn't do it. But, you know, one of the things that we did was we played the song we had for our wedding, which was Lord of All Hopefulness at our wedding, and we played that at his funeral. And I think hope is one word that I will always associate with James, because he gave me hope. Because after he died, there were so many signs that I had to hope I'd have another baby, and I had to believe. And he—
Aveline Clark (Host) · 12:35
there were—
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 12:35
every time I felt particularly bad, or every time I felt like I couldn't go on, something would stop me. And I would see something like a star or a white feather or something, and it was as if he was saying, stop, you know, I'm okay and you're going to be okay. And I, um, so I sort of started getting hope that I was going to be okay. And, and then I had a dream sort of 11 weeks later. I was writing a diary at the time, which helped, um, that I was holding a 9-month-old baby, um, and I heard a voice saying, you have to get better, you have to be okay for your future children. And I took that to be James. Um, and because I was writing a diary, I, I wrote that in my diary. And, um, I got pregnant that week. Um, it was 11 weeks later, so I, uh, um, I got my hope. Obviously that pregnancy was terrifying every minute. I, I, you know, my, my, my son was eventually born, um, and I was, um But throughout the pregnancy, almost every day I thought he'd die. Um, and he was really quiet, sleepy baby in my— when I was pregnant. So I used to have to try and wake him up. The doctor said, get some chocolates, you can have the chocolates at night, wake him up. So I did.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 14:04
Poor boy.
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 14:05
Um, and so I, um, went on and we had our healthy boy, um, and we We're obviously thrilled. By this time, we'd also found out what had happened to James. He was Down syndrome and had leukemia, which apparently is a side effect of— can be a side effect of Down's. And he— the doctors had said if he'd survived, he wouldn't have lived beyond 2. So I sort of think, well, without James, I wouldn't have had Luke. And because I couldn't, you know, I would have been in hospital, I would have been living in hospital with my son. And so the fact that Luke was born a month before the year's anniversary of losing James— so Luke was born in October and James was November— Luke means light, which is, of course, I don't know if you know the term rainbow baby, but A rainbow baby is the baby born after the storm of loss, light and color born after the storm of loss. And so it felt right to call Luke Luke. There's lots of Luke rainbow babies. And also Iris is also a common girl's name because of course it's the goddess of rainbows. And so my community of mums, um, all of us who I mentioned before, all of us have gone on to have one, mostly two children, which I also have. I then went on, had Alex, but, um, uh, 17 months later. So I had— I was pregnant almost solidly for 3 years with my 3 boys. And, um, I think, uh, that, that time obviously was a, was a really— was really hard. But I, you know, James is always part of my life. He's part of my who I am and has made me who I am and gave me hope and, and has enabled me to live the life I lead now. And I'm very lucky to have two healthy boys who are now 8 and 10. And so I'm very hugely grateful to, to James. And I love Christmas now. Um, my car— my tree always is covered with stars. And, um, so yes, I'm, um, it's a— it was a— it was a tough time. But I think, you know, those, those, um, people going through it, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's not— one of the things one of the people said to me, well, the other mums, was it's not that you get over your son. You're not— you don't get over losing your child. You just get stronger. And I think that goes with all grief, is you grow stronger daily so you can carry the weight of the grief. And it doesn't go away, and it sometimes hits you at strange times. And obviously it lessens, but it, you know, James is always part of me. And I can talk about James without crying mostly, but occasionally there's hits, especially like now telling the real story. But you know, it's not something that goes away, and it shouldn't was my son. So I think, I think if I was talking to someone else, any other mother going through something like this, I would say, you know, just remember that rainbows do appear, and remember to try and find a community of other people going through the same thing. And you're not going mad, you're just taking things a day at a time. Don't rush your grief, let it let it flow. Find a good grief counsellor, find someone you can talk to who understands you. And also the, the fathers, because I think the fathers often get forgotten in this situation. And in our Lost Mums group, quite a lot of the dads, 6 months later or so, they were the ones who suddenly hit rock bottom. And a number of the marriages ended because of the kind of held grief that happened. So I think that it's really important to get help because it's hard to cope with on your own. It's impossible. And so I think that's a key thing.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 18:32
Wow, so much there, Wren. Thank you. You got me very emotional too. Um, I was going to ask about Des. How did he cope with the news when you first, you know, first found out that James had passed inside the womb? And then, you know, 3 months later, you know, when you were home from work and dealing with your grief, what— how was the journey for him?
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 18:58
It's hard. He was, you know, went kind of— he was obviously— he was incredible when I was going through, you know, the pregnant— the birth and things, and he didn't leave my side. Um, and throughout the time, you know, straight after and on, he was, um, you know, very supportive. But, you know, he had to deal with it himself as well. And, you know, I think with, with hardcore grief, kind of as much as you might have each other, you're also on your own. And I think we grieve differently, and I think that's something that grief counsellor talked to us about, was the fact that men and women do grieve differently. And as a woman, it's not unusual to continue to talk about your child forever and to want to share the story. But for a man, or for Des, it's harder. And I don't think that, you know, he doesn't like talking about it. He sort of, he's like, I moved into the future now, I don't need to think about that part of my life because it's sad. And my parents are the same, they don't want to talk about it, um, and talk about James. And I think people thought, especially that generation, I should be over it. You know, within a year or something, you know. Fair enough the first year, but I shouldn't be talking about it, and, you know, I was over the top, and, you know, it's— I should be over it. I don't, I, I don't think— like I said, you don't get over it, but I'm a lot stronger, um, and, you know, I'm, I'm grateful for the time I had with him. James, and, um, I'm grateful for what he's done for me. Um, so I'm never— he's always my son, he's always with me. I think what that— I mean, that was another point. It reminds me that, um, I remember one of the things that I was, um, afraid of was moving forward, um, and living without him. Um, uh And I think there was a point, and I didn't— I don't know when it was, it was early on, but, um, you know, trying to, you know, laughing again and living again just didn't seem real. It didn't seem possible. And then I can't remember what it was that kind of triggered it, but I suddenly realized that James was with me always. He was always going to be part of me, and so I could move forward because he was going to be with me. He wasn't going anywhere. But that first bit was really hard because I felt that I couldn't move forward because it meant that I was going to forget him. But of course, that was ridiculous because I'm never going to forget him because he's always going to be part of me. And he is, you know. So thank God I managed to find that, and he was always part of me.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 22:03
He is.
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 22:06
So yes, that's— I mean, again, I think, again, speaking to Tried to support each other. Lost Mum since, but, um, that is something I tried to tell others, is that your son will be with you, you know, your child will always be with you. You don't have to feel like you're leaving your child, um, because you're not. Sorry.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 22:32
Um, yeah, don't apologize for the tears, Rem. I think that, um, me and everyone else listening is probably reaching for a tissue right now, if they haven't already. Um, how, how did you go getting back into the world again? You know, you took the 3 months off work. How hard was it for you to reintegrate into your life again?
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 22:59
It was really hard. So I went back to work in, um, so I lost him in November and then I slowly started going back to work, I think towards the end of January. I could have taken the whole year out if I wanted to because by law I was past 24 weeks, can take a whole year. So it's kind of strange though being on maternity leave without a baby, um, but my work were very good and that they had, um They let me come back slowly over a few days, a week, and I had friends supporting me. I remember my friend Lara being there and walking me back into the office. Of course, people were— the last time they saw me, I was heavily pregnant, and so it was hard for them. I know that it had had a big impact on other people. When they heard what had happened. Um, but by the time I got back, I was pregnant again. And so it wasn't, um, it, it obviously that was easier. But there's one thing that I remember was, um, everyone in the office was, you know, we— I worked as an agency and, um, obviously not on my first day, but that first few weeks and everyone was running around like headless chickens because they're trying to get proposal out and it was all big deal and everyone's just stress, stress, stress. And I was thinking, seriously, really? Are you really stressed about something as sort of stupid as this? And then there was one point when my manager was kind of saying, well, you know, you haven't done this or you haven't done that or whatever. And my, and my friend Lara was just beside herself with fury on my behalf. We went into a meeting room and she, she basically told the manager off. I was not caring a bit because I was like, well, so what, you know, you know, I've dealt with bigger things than this. It didn't bother me, but she got— she was furious. I think she ended up crying. She was so angry on my behalf. Um, we're still friends. And, and funnily enough, I'm still friends with the manager as well. But, um, I was— it was funny because everyone was so kind of, um, obviously important, you know, work was important at that time. But I went through— I mean, it was a long time. I lost my motion. And like, other than dealing with the— what I was going through, just the small things in life and the things that other people were going through, I lost a lot of empathy and I became very hard. And I, you know, it's the way I survived. And complain about just things that seemed so irrelevant. And I was probably not very pleasant. I know my best friend Kate, um, was pretty shocked. A few people were pretty shocked at how hard I'd become because I was just— I didn't care, you know. I just lost it, and I was just— I lost who I was. And I think it took a good year or so to get my emotions back properly, and probably more than that. Um, and I was, yeah, I was very, um, I was pretty hard for quite a long time, but the walls had come down and, you know, I had to focus on, you know, having another baby. That was my priority, and everything else was— didn't really affect me like it would have done. I am naturally quite an emotional person, so Once emotions started coming back, I was like, oh damn, it's quite good not having all those really deep emotions. Oh, but yes, they didn't stay away for too long. Um, but I mean, it taught me lots about empathy and kind of being able to be oneself and things. But yeah, it's, um, yeah, getting back into the normal world was really tough. But I think again, they talk about a new normal. And that's one of the things that, you know, you have to find that. You have to find your new self because you're never going to be the same person you were before that event or whatever big event. And I think, again, one of the things it's taught me is that when you go through something massive like that, you do change, and you need people who have gone through similar to be able to understand where you're coming from. Um, but You know, and then looking at other people who've got going through or gone through big things, although I haven't gone through those things, I can recognize some of the feelings and the grief, the emotional side, and then just give people space to go, okay, well, you know, I haven't gone through that, but I'm here to listen, talk, let you know you can talk to me. I'm not going to tell you it's going to get better. I'm not going to say you're going to be fine because you may not be. You know, you can't— I think people trying to paper over horrible things, it's just disrespectful. You know, it's hard to hear, yeah, your baby might die, but they might. You know, life can be tough. There's no guarantees things are going to be fine, but, um, you try and keep hope, I think, is an important thing.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 28:18
I really like that. And you're right, you know, but I think people trying to sugarcoat things and justify things, and— but it doesn't actually help anyone. It doesn't, doesn't help healing, and it doesn't allow someone to actually be in their, in their pain, in their grief. Um, you know, trying to deny the grief doesn't actually help anybody.
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 28:44
No, you've got to be able to talk about it. And I think that that's— again, I think, you know, if I was saying to anyone who was with people who had, you know, if you were trying to support people who are going through something like that or something big, is it's just, just let people know that you're there, willing to listen. Um, don't try and say everything's going to be fine, you'll get over it. Because, you know, oh God, time heals all wounds. It doesn't. You know, you can get stronger from it, but don't say it's all going to get healed and you're going to be fine. It's just rubbish. And, you know, equally, I think, you know, I'm— I think I'm quite a positive person now, uh, you know, and I, I try to look at the bright thing, bright side of life, and try to have hope and belief that things are going to be okay. You can't live in the thought that everything's going to be awful. But I think it's important to have hope, but also you've got to be realistic about things. And so, yeah, I think the key thing is don't try and make things better, just do what you can to support the person. And again, during that time of loss, there were two people who sent food to our house because I couldn't eat, I couldn't cook, I couldn't do anything. My parents came with food, and then I would— we had a friend who I'd met on the tube who came. Um, I didn't know her that well, but she, for the first couple of weeks, just kept coming with food, home-cooked food, and leaving it at our door. And, um, and then another friend sent us a big basket of cookies and muffins, and which was amazing because it just meant that we could eat. We wouldn't— couldn't do it otherwise. And so again, I think trying to be practical, and don't wait for someone, you know, if someone says, oh well, can I, you know, let me know if I can do anything. If they're going through something like that, they're never going to tell you what they need because they don't know. You need to just be there, listen, and give them food. Um, so, and cookies. Yes.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 31:03
Um, I could imagine that when you got pregnant again, was— that would have been a surprise. Is it?
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 31:10
Well, it was. It was the first time we tried, so, um, and it was, yeah, I mean, amazing. And it was, you know, It was, as I say, it was a terrifying pregnancy, um, because— but I luckily had the community of, um, uh, of the other lost mums. And a couple of them have gone through their pregnancies since. And, you know, we were all— most of— so the big group of lost mums had still going because everyone— we've got lost people all the time. But then there were a small group of us who went on to another group of people, mums trying, and then there was a break-off of people who were trying who were pregnant. I got on the, um, trying group. I was on it for a week, then I got pregnant, so I moved into the, the pregnant group. And then of course that group broke off again when we had our babies. Um, we're still friends, there's 12 of us and we're still connected. And, um, so that, um, really, you know, I think that really helped kind of keep, keep sane. Um, but yeah, that first pregnancy— so the, the, the— whenever we had the fear, the other pregnancy, the other mums gone through it, um, we were, um, we would refer to normals, so normal mums who were slightly oblivious, and then we were the wackadoodles because we were constantly terrified and constantly just a little— well, completely paranoid and you know, every tiny thing we would freak out about. But then, saying that, again, if anyone's listening who is pregnant— and I'm not saying this to frighten people, but if it saves a baby, I think it's important to say— there's two things to look out for. And this could have saved a couple of the babies in the loss community I'm in. One of them is if you get any major movement or lack of movement from your baby gets checked. Um, and so James, that night, that last night, he did some huge bouncing movements. I would never have thought to get that checked, to be fair. And he couldn't have been saved because he had leukemia, you know. So the other babies could have been saved. So there's the high movement, um, like out of the norm, or low movement or lack of movement, get checked. If you get checked, don't take no for an answer. Get checked, get pushed back. One of my friends went back to the hospital 3 times after being pushed back, saying, 'No, no, there's nothing wrong.' She lost her full-term baby. And the other one is leaking waters. If you think, yes, of course, it's all really disgusting, all the kind of bits and pieces that come with pregnancy they don't tell you about, but if you suspect you're leaking your waters, 'Get checked. Don't wait. Don't think it's something else. It could be serious.' And again, another lost mum. I think there were a couple of them lost their babies because of leaking waters. They lost their babies at full term. So if you're listening and you're having a baby, just be careful and don't assume everything's going to be fine just because you've hit the 20-week mark, you know. I lost James at 26 weeks, but more of my friends lost them full-term, so, and healthy babies. So get checked. But that's my— I, I don't like saying that too much, but it is a lesson that people need to be aware of.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 34:52
Thank you for that. Like you said, it's not about, you know, being pessimistic, but being realistic. These things happen, and we have to be conscious and vigilant. And, and I love the advice that you've just given about, you know, to the pregnant mums about, you know, those two signs, um, and to get checked. Really important.
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 35:11
Yeah, I mean, like, it is, it's not going to happen, but again, the statistics are shocking. It's something— I mean, when it happened to, to us, I think it was, um, something like It's a shocking statistic. It's something like 1 in 7 babies. Um, I mean, it's, it's— and I can't remember what the actual statistic is, but it's, it's much, much higher than people realize. Um, and so, you know, it's not something— it does happen, you know. Um, but it's— yeah, I mean, in the UK, it's the worst, um, of the developed world. It's the worst country in the world for stillbirths. Um, I think that statistic is probably too high, but it is, it is still— whatever it is, it's much higher than you'd expect.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 36:04
Yeah, right. Um, when you had your next baby, did people around you just assume that you were over the death of James? Did they think, okay, that conversation's going to end, we're not going to hear about it? Was there a view that, oh no, she's moved on now, she's got a baby?
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 36:22
Yes, yeah, I'm not— not— I mean, my closest friends know because I, I still talked about James. And obviously I had Luke within that first year, so I'm still grieving, um, during that first year and, and beyond. And so, yeah, I think people thought, you know, once I had Luke and then Alex, you know, surely she can't still talk about it. But I do it. I mean, you know, on Facebook, every his birthday I still— I don't say I celebrate it, but I mark it. And, um, you know, and at Christmas I mark it, you know. I'm not— and I go and I visit. And I know that first, you know, that first year I visited every day, you know. And then, um, and then it lessened and it lessened. And now it's— I don't— I mean, it's probably I go every few months. Now, but it's not, you know, it's not as needed because he's with me, so I don't, you know, I don't need to, to go. But yeah, people did assume that— why am I still talking about it? Because he's my son, you know. Um, that's just the way it is. Um, but yeah, so I think people— some people found it quite hard. Um, but I mean, as I said, I don't talk about him every day. That, you know, it's just part of my story. But I mean, I was very lucky because I then went on and had Alex, um, 17 months after Luke. So I had two toddlers at the same— or two babies at the same time. So it was pretty full-on. Um, so yeah, I was very lucky.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 38:01
So do you think they helped you help fill your heart and your, you know, your days? Of course, with the the end, we all know the energy required to look after a baby and a toddler, um, but did they fill a space or did they just kind of create their own space?
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 38:18
Um, Alex filled that space in a way. I felt, I felt incomplete until I had Alex, and then I, I kind of, I don't know why. I mean, both Des and I are only children, so, you know, I would have been fine if we'd only had one, you know, one child at home. Um, but we said, you know, we wanted to try for another, and we gave ourselves a window of, okay, because I was old, I'm an older mum, and I was 40 when I had Luke. And then, um, I— we said, okay, we need to try and get pregnant by the time I'm 41. Um, but then if we don't by my birthday then we'll stop. I got pregnant the week of my birthday, so, um, Alex came and he did, you know, it completed off— he completed our family. Um, I think I would have felt empty without him. Um, so yeah, I think that was a good— I mean, obviously it was wonderful I had the two boys, but one of the things that again is a difficult question and still struggle with a bit now, but not so much, but when people said or say, you know, so how many children do you have? And, you know, obviously, you know, the normal answer is 2. At the beginning, I was— I would say I've got 1, or, you know, 1 or 2, depending on when it was that Alex was here. Um, and I feel guilty every time I didn't include James. And so I would say I've got 2 at home. That's how I dealt with it. And then sometimes I would talk about James. But obviously I don't now, I'd say 2. But you know, in my head, it was a difficult question. So now I find it very difficult. I don't like asking people how many children they've got. Don't like, 'cause I think it can be intrusive. Or you know, when people have children with big gaps, don't ask the question, "Oh wow, that's a big gap," 'cause they might have lost a child. You know, don't assume that they've made that choice. Or I've got friends who, you know, had multiple miscarriages but didn't manage to have children. And, um, you know, why didn't you choose to have children? Well, how do you know that they didn't try for years? Um, so yeah, it's a— I think it's a sensitive topic. It's something people should be conscious of.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 40:47
Absolutely. I love the way that you've described the journey and, and also the, the relational aspects of the healing journey and, you know, giving us some insight into what's not that appropriate to say. And it makes perfect sense. You know, we do need to be more human and humane and compassionate, I think. And it's— we people can be very judgmental but also make assumptions. Yeah. And when they do make assumptions, then that's where things can go.
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 41:20
Hey, why?
Aveline Clark (Host) · 41:21
Yeah, it becomes quite difficult.
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 41:22
Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, you know, I know that I'm guilty of being— acting probably like a normal more times than I, I should now because it has been so many years that I do probably do the put my foot in it sometimes and say the wrong things and, you know, and, and, you know, but it's— I am probably, I'm probably a bit more conscious because obviously of what I've been through, but I'm, um, and I do probably say the annoying, oh, everything will be fine, stop worrying. You're not— not pregnant people, I don't. But, um, and yeah, because I think it's just normal. It's— and it's— I don't think when people say the wrong things or said the wrong things, you know, it always comes from a good place generally. Um, I think it's just people don't think, and they don't want to think that there's anything going to be bad coming, so they just say what they think is comforting. They don't realize that actually it's not necessarily helpful. And so, um, I think, you know, and people try to empathize, and, you know, that's natural, but it's also not necessarily helpful. Like, you know, when I— a lot of people said to me, and, oh, you know, well, I've had a miscarriage, so I know what you're going through. And it's like, I know that miscarriages are, you know, heavy duty. Absolutely, I'm not taking that away. Um, but it's different, and you know, it's not the same. So it's trying to get the balance of saying the right thing, but it's really hard if you haven't gone through it. Whatever the gone through is, it's very hard for people who haven't gone through it to really know how to handle that.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 43:00
You've obviously had, like you said, 11, it's been 11 years since you lost James, and you've got this, wisdom, and you've developed a lot of strength obviously in that time. And just hearing you speak, you know, you can see how integrated you are and so accepting of him in your life. And as you say, you never get over it, nor do you want to. He's always with you. There's so much beauty in, in that, and vulnerability and authenticity about our humanness. And I just want to acknowledge you for that. It's— it shows such a strength of character to be able to speak and share in the way that you have.
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 43:36
Thank you.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 43:38
So thank you. I wanted to ask you now, today, looking back, I mean, you have given us so much wisdom and perspective. Is it— what would be one of the biggest things that you've grown or done as a result of your journey since losing James?
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 43:55
Um, I think during the time of losing James probably the thing that saved me was the, the kindness of other people, of my closest friends and my family and, and, and counselors, and also the community of lost people, and the, the, the, the allowance of listening and letting people— well, letting me talk and be being there. So I've got a couple of— I had 3 friends, 3, 4 friends I would bounce off I'd taken turns in having a freakout, you know, when I was going through it. They were there for me. They knew that they would be there for me anytime. Um, and, and so I ended up— so, so, and I think personally the ability to listen and the ability to maybe be more empathetic and, and take time for people, um, was something that I feel that I better at, and I try to do more of. And so I ended up— I kind of— my whole business is based around that now. And so my, my business is all about listening. And so I listen to people for a living. I basically, I interview people's clients to find out what they think about the business that I'm working for. And I, I want to give people a voice and hear what they say and get the truth from people. And then feed that back so that the business that I'm working for, my clients, can be more human with their people, with their clients and their teams. And I think it's really important to be more human and be more accepting and, you know, and actually let people be themselves and be honest about themselves, you know. And I think as well, being good in business and in life and You know, actually, don't hang your personality on the door when you go into different situations. Just be yourself. And if you're having a good day, great. You're having a bad day, be honest about it. So if you're talking to a client and you've got a migraine and you're really struggling that day, tell them. Everyone has problems. And they'll be more forgiving. Or if you're late for something, talk to them and just say, I'm sorry, this is what's happening. Don't hide things. Communicate. Build relationships, human relationships. And I think the thing that, you know, I learned from the time with James is that listening and being human and being authentic— I hate the word— but is so important. And actually, you know, nurture those relationships and, and be around people you want to be around. Don't be around people who are fake and don't care and don't allow you to be yourself, don't want you to be yourself, and aren't being human, you know. So for me, it's all about being more human in life and in work.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 46:53
What a beautiful gift. Even though we don't necessarily always get gifts from our traumatic events, it sounds like you have been given this gift of this perspective and a way of, um, operating way of being. And I love it. I love what you said about being more human and being yourself and just being real.
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 47:15
Yeah, because sometimes you have crappy days, and obviously you can't have a crappy day every day. And you do that in your work and your life, and you need to sometimes just put on a smile, get on with it. And actually, you know, whatever the saying is, you know, smile, it actually does help you that day, you know. But, you know, just, I think I think it's just having that honesty in life. And, and, um, and you know, the whole everything we've gone through with COVID I think that's a really, um, in a way it's been a gift and it's been hell as well, but it's also been a gift of realizing that we're all people, we're all humans, and we've all, you know, we're all— we've got different experiences and we should be listening to those.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 47:58
Yeah. Absolutely. What a beautiful way to come to an end. Um, you did mention this earlier, but I just want to ask you the question again so it's top of mind for our listeners. Remini, so if someone's listening to this who is potentially going through, or, you know, this similar thing that you went through, what would you like to say to them?
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 48:21
I think give yourself time. Um, Know that you need to give yourself time to grieve. Believe that your baby will— you know, that spirit will always be with you. Don't expect— don't listen to people who say you'll get over it. It's not about getting over it, it's about getting stronger and finding people who are in the same kind of space that you can lean on. That will hold you up when you feel like you're falling. And that— know that the— that pain of grief is incredibly heavy. And every day, or every week, or whatever it is, you will get stronger bit by bit. And then you'll be able to carry that grief. And in time, you will be able to laugh again, and life will come back. But don't think that you're leaving your child behind, because you're— you know, you don't— it's not about getting over it. It's basically, it's about trying to learn to live a new normal and carrying the grief. I think when your grief gets too much, sometimes it's when people say, oh, you know, you're 'You'll get over it.' That to me is insulting. And time doesn't heal the wounds, you just get stronger. And you will get stronger, and you will get through it. And try to have hope. You know, so many people who've gone through what I've been through have gone on, had healthy babies. I can only think one or two who haven't, but most have. And it can happen. And it's not about having another baby to replace is about just believing in a different future. Um, you can survive.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 50:18
That's really beautiful. Thank you, Remini, just from the bottom of my heart, and from hopefully all mums listening to this. Uh, thank you for being so open and sharing that beautiful story with me and everyone today. I'm really grateful.
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 50:33
Well, thank you. I'm going to add one final thing.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 50:36
Yes.
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 50:37
Give your kids and the people you love a big hug in the name of James.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 50:43
Will do. Your shining star.
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 50:45
Yes.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 50:47
Thank you.
Remeny Armitage (Guest) · 50:48
Thank you.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 50:49
We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Kilsugi Heroes. Please like and share the show to your friends so we can get this out to even more people. If you have a story you'd like to share with us, please reach out using the contact details below. Join us next week for our next hero story. Until then, keep being you, and remember that we are all heroes in our own unique way.
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