Rugare Gomo · 71 min
A gay Black African man who arrived in Australia at 16 with $300 and no citizenship reveals how shedding other people's expectations, and learning to ask for help, became the most radical act of freedom he could choose.
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Rugare arrived in Australia at 16 with $300 and no citizenship, fleeing not for education or opportunity but for freedom, a word he didn't yet have for what he needed. Born stateless in the UK to Zimbabwean parents, raised in Zimbabwe where being gay meant danger, he spent years suppressing a part of himself he couldn't name. It took a German friend's direct question in France, followed by repeated approaches from men who saw something he wouldn't admit to himself, before he found the courage to ask the question alone: who am I, really?
What sets Rugare's story apart is not the hardship, though statelessness cost him access to healthcare, education, and a passport, and though arriving in a country with radically different beliefs about family, alcohol, and community felt like landing on another planet. What matters is how he learned to ask for help in a culture that taught him to suffer quietly. He raised over $120,000 for university by asking, and later, one email brought $120,000 for his book. He discovered that when someone says no, it reflects their circumstances, not his worth. He built a community instead of trying to survive alone.
Today, 24 years later, Rugare is a leadership coach and author whose memoir speaks to anyone caught between who they are and who they are expected to be. His message is simple: the only thing you can control is who you say you are. Nobody can legislate that away. When you stop pretending and start being yourself, people respond with far more love than the noise of hate suggests. Australia became the place where he could reclaim all the parts of himself, British, Zimbabwean, Black, and gay, and discover that being more of everything made him stronger.
“My job every day is to discover what are my ideas of myself. And that's where freedom lies.”
“I came to Australia to be free. Simple. All the other stuff was the child trying to express something he didn't really know how to express.”
“I am community-made. I am not self-made.”
The hero, today
The problem isn't that you're unique in wanting to be yourself; the power comes from knowing you're not alone and finding people who understand that. Rugare came to Australia at 16 with only $300 because he needed to find freedom and safety to explore who he actually was, something he didn't have the words to name at the time. When you ask for help and someone says no, it has nothing to do with your worth or whether you deserve to exist; it only reflects their own circumstances. Being yourself is not confined to safe spaces you find, it's also your responsibility to create safe spaces for the people who come after you, even in spaces where you don't initially feel connected. The only thing anybody can actually control is who they say they are and who they say they'll be; nobody can take that away unless you let them.
Yes. Rugare Gomo is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
The problem isn't that you're unique in wanting to be yourself; the power comes from knowing you're not alone and finding people who understand that.
Rugare came to Australia at 16 with only $300 because he needed to find freedom and safety to explore who he actually was, something he didn't have the words to name at the time.
When you ask for help and someone says no, it has nothing to do with your worth or whether you deserve to exist; it only reflects their own circumstances.
Being yourself is not confined to safe spaces you find, it's also your responsibility to create safe spaces for the people who come after you, even in spaces where you don't initially feel connected.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 00:16
Hello and welcome to From There to Here, the podcast where we explore what it takes to build a new life far from home. I'm your host, Emma Belamy, and today my guest is Rugare Gomo. Rugare is a leadership coach, storyteller, and author of the memoir Dreams: Forging My Own Path. His story is truly one of a kind. Born stateless in the UK to Zimbabwean parents, he spent his childhood and teens in Zimbabwe and then migrated to Australia at just at 16 with only a suitcase and $300 to his name. As a gay Black immigrant, he faced his fair share of challenges, but what stands out most to me is how he progressively managed to break free from restrictive societal and cultural expectations to reclaim his authentic self. In this episode, we talk about many things, His struggle for authenticity, how he dealt with the tension between identity and safety, why he refused to let systemic barriers dictate his future, the importance of creating safe spaces for others, and why forging your own path matters. Thank you for tuning in. I hope you enjoy listening to this conversation as much as I enjoyed hosting it. Regaré Gomo, I'm delighted to have you on the show and finally get to hear about your story as an immigrant from Zimbabwe, but also as a person who's reclaimed their authentic self in this country. So yeah, Thank you for being my guest.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 02:20
Oh, Emma, I am thrilled to be your guest and to have this conversation with you.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 02:26
Yay, me too, me too. So, Rigari, not so long ago you wrote a memoir about forging your own path in the world. So I guess a good place for us to start is to ask, what is the main message that you hope your readers take away from your memoir?
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 02:45
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This conversation includes born stateless, raised asking who you should be, the crossroads between safety and authenticity, books and overseas visitors open up the world, the feeling that wouldn't go away, a friend in nigeria teaches him about safe spaces and the real reason he came to australia.
I think it starts with the dreams itself, you know. So I even started my title, it's Dreams: Forging My Own Path. We live in a world where the moment we are born, we are being told who we should and shouldn't be. We got a beautiful baby, a beautiful baby boy. Oh, the girl is so good, she's quiet, you know. What a shy person. 'What a thoughtful person,' we're being told the moment we are born. And my experience is that nobody's actually asking, 'Who am I?' So the problem with that is that in the context of being human, our family, society, our country, the world has these ideas of who we should and shouldn't be, but sometimes those ideas don't actually work for me. They might not work for you, and so we then live in a prison, not always knowing why sometimes we don't feel free, why we don't feel empowered. And what I've discovered is because I am living other people's ideas of who I should be. My job every day is to discover what are my ideas of myself, and that's where freedom lies.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 04:17
And it is so hard to be who you truly are when you risk facing social rejection, prejudice, or even oppression, right? I feel that particularly for migrants, there is often this balancing act between the need for safety and the desire for authenticity. So it's really hard to be who you are in this context, right?
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 04:41
It is. And, you know, I am a gay Black African man, and why I use those labels is that where I come from in Zimbabwe, to be gay is illegal, you know. And when I moved to Australia, there wasn't equality in marriage then either. And, you know, they're not necessarily protections in all aspects of being gay in Australia and around the world. So there is that idea of safety versus our authentic selves. How do we navigate those things together? It's a very difficult challenge for all of us, whatever it is. You know, because I know it's not unique to me. It's anytime there is a desire to express something that's different to another human being, that's where the challenge comes. So what I have done to break that down simply for myself is that I start off with, I am not unique. I am not unique. Women face the same issues. People of color face the same issues. Migrants face the same issues. Men face the same issue, you know. And men to use their voice and share their emotions is breaking out of a mold. So anytime we're trying to break out of our mold to express an authentic self, that's where the crossroad is. So being able to identify that I'm not unique allows me to then know that I'm not alone. Because trying to walk a path of being authentic alone is where we want to then shut off. But the reality is, once I know I'm not alone, that allows me to have power. That's the starting point.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 06:49
How did you get to think about the fact that you are not alone? Because very often when you experience difference, it's very hard to get out of yourself and be thinking about the fact that you are not unique. How did that thought come to you in the first place?
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 07:05
It's a good question. I think that thoughts don't just appear. Thoughts start with modeling. So for me, if I think about the models in my life, particularly, let's say, in a place like Zimbabwe where there was very limited exposure to the global community, uh, books were a big, big influence in my life. So even today, I'm 40 years old, I read ferociously, and I, I read broadly. So one of my favorite books is actually from a Brazilian author, and I just read books from all different cultures and all around the world because books give ideas and cultures and worlds beyond my own. So growing up, I had access to books, so that was extraordinary. Um, the second thing I had access to was people from overseas coming to work with my mom and my dads in the not-for-profits that they were working in. So exposure to people from Australia, people from Canada, the UK, Americans. That opened up the idea of, ah, there are other cultures, there are different ways of living, there are other career types. So how do we bring that over to our present today? You don't need many resources today to expose your mind, but you've got to be strategic about it. So I'm very strategic about Am I reading books outside the Eurocentric mindset? Because I have been raised Eurocentric, so I don't need necessarily to keep reading more of the same kind of books. And then you can also access things, you know, via online as well. Even as simple as learning another language. So growing up, you know, I grew up in Zimbabwe, you learn Shona. At school, I also learned French. So that was a different mindset as well. So things we can do in Australia is— I know as a migrant you want to keep growing your English for many people because that's the working language of Australia, but don't let go of even exploring other languages. You don't have to be perfect, all you do is need to be curious. So that's one of the ways I grow my mindset.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 09:36
And there is something about courage, I think, as well, because you have curiosity, but then at some point you need to find the courage to move beyond the societal expectations and the socially approved labels. You were a lawyer, right? And at some point you had to give up on that identity. You were also seen for many years as being straight, or you passed as being straight for many years. So How do you find the courage to get rid of those layers of your identity that do not really fit with who you are?
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 10:11
I didn't have the language for any of this, and most people don't have the language for any of this. But we do have feelings. A lot of the time we know when we feel there's something not quite right. So even if we just take a pause, everybody, if you're listening to this, just take a pause. And just get in touch with that feeling where you feel that there's something not quite right. In the past, I would ignore it and sweep it under the carpet, but then that feeling became too painful to ignore. So it was then either I'm going to have to keep finding a way to suppress that feeling or find a way to deal with that feeling. And so for me That was my sexuality. Being a gay man was like the first big crisis for me. And in that crisis, I knew that there was something that was different about me, and I knew I could not even allow myself to explore it because, as I said, where I come from, to be gay is illegal. So to even explore it, it's too dangerous to even think it. To even think I'm gay is dangerous, but it reached that point that I couldn't ignore it anymore. And so why I could not face even engaging with whether I was a gay man or not was that if I then am a gay man, what of everything else I've believed in, having grown up in that context of gays bad? You know, being gay means you're going to go to hell. What else have I believed in that has shaped me today that could be wrong? And that was overwhelming. So that's where you talk about courage, isn't it? If that was the courage, but the pain was either I'm going to keep pretending I'm somebody I'm not But to pretend takes energy. To pretend means I may have to be in behaviors to cope. That's how sometimes people become alcoholics, drug addicts, you know, go out and party. Now, none of those things in themselves are like bad, but the excess, if we're doing it to cope with that feeling, that's when it can actually take over our lives. So for me, it was like that's where my life was going to be heading, in essence. So it did take courage to say, okay, breathe, Rugare, it's now time to pause and be curious about this. And that was very scary because on the other side is death. That's how my brain is thinking. To explore this is death.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 13:04
What made you be courageous enough to go there then?
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 13:08
Then this is where, um, the next step is. Yeah, is, um, finding safe spaces to explore. So to be curious doesn't mean I have to do everything 100% now, because we live in a culture of perfectionism. We live in a culture of we need to get the result when now. No, curiosity is a journey itself. Hence also the title of my book, Dreams: Forging My Own Path. A path is something— a path you walk on is something you follow, you know, or create. It's a journey. So curiosity as well is a journey. And in that journey, I had to discover what are safe spaces for me. I'll give you an example, like a real-life example today. So I've got a friend who lives in Nigeria, and he lives in the northern states of Nigeria. He's a gay man. In the northern states of Nigeria, it's ruled by the Boko Haram, the Islamic State. In the Islamic State, to be gay, you get killed. It is common and usual for gay men to be killed. Common and usual. He shared the story of the— a gay boy being killed by literally teenage boys, and those teenage boys celebrating because in the core belief system, to get rid of a gay person is a victory. So how does he have a safe space? So inside of my courage of being my full authentic self, he reached out to me on LinkedIn before publishing my book. I was sharing that my book is about to release. He shared with me his life He first didn't share all of it, isn't it? He just first connected with another gay man. He'd been following me, you know. He found a way to create a safe space for himself. So the first step is find safe spaces. So yeah, in a day-to-day life, he's not out and say, guess what, I'm a gay Nigerian man. No, but he's finding safe spaces where he can be his authentic self. And that can be a journey.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 15:23
Yeah, it's finding your people as well, finding people who can be safe to be yourself with.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 15:28
Absolutely. And sometimes I have the privilege that I've created many spaces to be myself in. I have— and I want to say privilege, it's a privilege because that was work. So coming to Australia was part of that journey. Now I say to people, I came to Australia for a better education and opportunities, When I look back of those 24 years I've been here, I came to Australia to be free. Simple. All the other stuff was the child trying to express something he didn't really know how to express. I came to Australia to be free. You said it perfectly, Emma. I came to Australia to find my tribe, a place where human rights are respected. A place where I have individuality of thought and I'm not going to be arrested for it. A place where I can be creative. When I look back, I was looking for spaces to be free.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 16:28
Did you know that at the time?
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 16:29
No, that's what I now know today.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 16:34
So yeah, you arrived in Australia with— I think it's important for the audience to understand that you had no idea you were gay before you arrived here.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 16:43
No idea. Yeah, no idea, right?
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 16:44
And it's so It's difficult for us to imagine, right? It's something that you gave yourself permission to explore your sexuality in Australia.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 16:57
Yes.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 16:57
And yeah, tell me about this journey because it must have felt very strange to discover this about yourself at such a late stage of life.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 17:06
Yes. And to put some context to it, you know, when I had puberty, I did have dreams of men, but I thought, oh, that's just going to you know, fade away, you know, when I become a young adult. That's how you think about these things. So when you grow up in a very repressive and conservative culture, and the belief system is the well-trodden path of, you know, you finish your education, you get married to a woman, then you're going to have children, you're going to make your parents proud by having grandchildren— everything is very specific. That's what you're trained to think and believe. So of course you play the game. There's no— you don't think twice about it. So if there's anything odd about it, you can, as I said, you can just either like, oh yeah, that's happening now, that's probably puberty and it's going to change. But it didn't change. So even when I came to Australia, I remember I nearly had a girlfriend too, and I thought I didn't want to kiss them, I didn't want to touch them, and I thought Wow, I'm such a good Christian boy, I don't even want to kiss them before I'm married. That's what— that's how I thought about it. Wow. So that's the level of suppression and denial of my sexuality. Now, Emma, it was only when I went to France that I had to confront my sexuality.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 18:40
Really? So this was in 2005.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 18:40
I'm 21 years old, and I'd gone to France on exchange. I had failed my law subjects, contract law, twice. And so I was having, you know, a crisis of, is this the right course for me? So I decided I was going to continue my French because I was doing a double degree, my French and European studies in France. So I created an exchange program where my school fees in Australia would cover all my living expenses and my education in France. So when I was in France, different men started approaching me, and I was so confused. I was like, what is going on? Am I walking with a sign on my back that I'm gay? And even at the institute that I was at, IFALP Chambéry, in Chambéry, um, I remember my German friend Linda Fockel. She, um brings me to her apartment. She says, "I want to make lunch for you," and she makes this beautiful German goulash, sits me down, and says, right, in a very German way, "Everybody wants to know if you're gay." Oh my God. Oh my God.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 19:52
In a very German way?
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 19:55
Direct and to the point.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 19:57
Wow.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 19:58
And I, of course, I had a panic attack in that moment. And I said, of course not. And of course my goulash did not taste good at all after that. But it was at that period of time in my life where the messages— I was being confronted with the messages because I wouldn't confront it myself. And sometimes the universe will put you in a situation where it's like, okay, come on, 'Come on, it's now time.' So I don't know if I was courageous. I feel the universe did something for me that I couldn't do for myself either. So these kind of experiences kept happening to me for 6 months. I was then in Grenoble, the same thing happened to me. I was, you know, just during wintertime, you know, it's cold in Grenoble. They have the fire, you know, the heaters during wintertime and snow. And then I'm chit-chatting with this man, I'm thinking it's Perfect, I get to practice my French. But then we happen to sit opposite each other on the train and we continue, exchange email addresses and phone numbers. And then I get this email from him in French saying, "You're the most beautiful person in the world I've come across, great energy, let's catch up." Again, I'm confronted. And because I don't feel safe, you know, people who don't feel safe lash out. We do very harmful things. And I did harmful things. I sent him an email back in French saying, I am not gay, it's evil to be gay. That's what I sent back to him. And of course, he did not take that very well when I sent that to him, because again, putting the wall. This continued over and over again. And by, by the time I was in Nice. I said, I don't know what's going on, but once I get back to Australia— because I didn't feel safe exploring my sexuality in France because I'm in my second language now and I'm not yet proficient. So how am I going to navigate this? So it was like, when I get back to Melbourne, Australia, where I was living at that time, I'm going to explore my sexuality. That's when I had the courage.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 22:14
Wow. Wow.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 22:14
Yes.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 22:16
So yeah, you had many messages, but before you gathered the courage to explore it? It took you actually a long time.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 22:25
A very long time. And my assertion is that people already are getting the messages of the things that don't really work in their life. We're already getting those messages of, okay, it's time to use your voice, it's time to be visible, it's time to leave your job. We are already getting those messages. The messages could be from a mental health crisis, because of where your job is. The message could be from feeling depressed, not wanting to wake up to go to work. The message could be, I've got these friends, but when I spend time with these friends, I don't feel good when I leave. The messages are already there. The question is whether we're going to listen to them.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 23:06
Yeah, it's sometimes hard to listen to yourself, right? To listen to this intuition.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 23:11
Yes, yes. So I have lots of empathy and compassion for all sorts of life scenarios, because it is a journey. For some people, I call it, it's like walking across a bridge. So we give people the same situation in life. Some people will cross the bridge very fast. Some people may be 99% of the way there, so it's very easy. Some people may be at zero and started to cross the bridge. So what I say to people is don't even compare your situation to any other person. We are all unique, we're all at different stages of crossing that bridge. And if you're a person who is a high performer or you find it easy, like, solving your life, stop judging others. Keep your opinion to yourself, you know, and let the person, like, really forge their own path. Allow people to, to win on their terms and allow people to fail on their terms. And we've got to stop being busybodies and actually allow people to be on that journey to build that safety and freedom, be an enabler rather than a judger.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 24:18
And that comes from someone who has felt like an outsider for a very long time, right? I find something that is interesting about your history is that you were born stateless in the UK to Zimbabwean parents. And even after returning to Zimbabwe, it took about 15 years for you to acquire the Zimbabwean and citizenship. So in your book, you actually talk about the legal and social barriers that made you feel like an outsider from birth. So what's your experience about being stateless for so many years?
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 24:54
Emma, this is a very important question because a lot of the time, you know, when we live in a very Eurocentric world, people don't understand the systemic and real environmental barriers to freedom and authenticity. So even for people who are migrants, I want you to know that there are real systematic and environmental barriers to being authentically ourselves that many people don't deal with. And those barriers have a person like me and a person like them wake up every day with low self-esteem. So it's brutal to the spirit, and we don't even know we have low self-esteem because that feeling has already been always there from birth. Because it's been trained. So what is it like to be stateless? So to be stateless and not have a citizenship in real life means many things. You don't have access to health, you don't have access to education, you don't have access to a passport to travel the world. Being stateless is something that after World War II The United Nations banished. It's illegal for countries to make children stateless, yet we still see it all around the world. We see it in refugee camps. We see it, refugee camps in Kenya. We see it in the Middle East. We see it in Eastern Europe. It's still a huge, huge issue being rendered stateless, you know, and even just look at the Palestinians. Who live all around the world, they don't have a citizenship. Many Palestinians may live in Kuwait but have no access because they're Palestinians. So being rendered stateless has huge negative implications to opportunities, um, and also to your mental health. So for me, coming to Australia was practically Impossible, because I had no citizenship. So even when I went back to Zimbabwe when I was only 1 year 8 months, the Zimbabwean officials deemed me a non-citizen of Zimbabwe. Fortunately, I still had access to health and to an education due to my mom and my dad advocating for me. But then when it came to seizing an opportunity bigger than what was within Zimbabwe that was not available for me. And so my mom, my dad didn't even know, through lack of education, that there could be a possibility for me to become a citizen of Zimbabwe. So they had to literally go to the capital city and advocate for me to become a citizen. Now I want to tell you something even more crazier. So even after acquiring citizen— Zimbabwean citizenship, and I moved to Australia on a Zimbabwean passport during the Zimbabwean crisis. So the dictatorship, the fake democracy in Zimbabwe, because I'd been born in the UK, the Zimbabwean government again took away my citizenship. So when I went back to Zimbabwe, I was declared again a non-citizen. This happens to people, you know. I was at a global talk, I was at a talk yesterday where this amazing, amazing Malaysian woman was communicating because she was an ethnic Chinese person within her own country. She was denied education in the 1970s. People don't talk about this. People don't talk about it. So that was what one of her reasons for her dream of moving to Australia, because even within her own country, and she did have a citizenship because of her ethnicity, she was being denied. So that's the level of barriers that can happen. So when I talk about, you know, follow your dreams, be authentic, I understand there are systemic barriers and real environmental barriers. Real. So we don't want to undermine that. But what I have learned in all of this is if I remain a victim— and I am a victim, so, and I want to say it this way, I am a victim to the systemic and environmental barriers to my birthright of being free and authentic, because it's my birthright— if I remain a victim to that I'll have no power. I'll have no freedom. So for me to be free is extra work. It takes work to be free. It takes work to be authentic because there are huge barriers. So whenever I see a migrant, wherever I see somebody who's different, a neurodiverse person, a queer diverse person, I already know how courageous they are. It's unspoken, but I know how courageous women— women in the workplace— what the eff are we still doing trying to fight for equal pay? Makes no sense to me. What the eff? It's a given. We even have this saying in the workforce, If you want to get something done, give it to a mom. Yeah, but we know how powerful moms are. We know how powerful women are. A working mom gets things done because they understand the complexities of having to get things done with having to raise children, yet they're underpaid. Does not make sense. I'm saying that because I want people to know that gay rights, Black rights, or people of color rights, it's not one or the other. My freedom as a queer person, as a gay man, must elevate all humanity. It must elevate women. It must elevate our First Nation people. It must elevate migrants. My cause is no greater than any other. We're all in it together. Hence, it's equity and equality for all, not for some, for all.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 31:29
Hmm. I really love what you say here. Let's actually talk about the challenges you faced as an immigrant when you arrived in Australia. You encountered many challenges, but I wonder what are the challenges that feel that they were the hardest to go through?
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 31:49
Yes. So I speak English, so you'd expect that because I speak English, it's easy to navigate. And I come from a former British colony where our education system is also very English, Cambridge kind of old school English. But that doesn't make it any easier. You know, is there an advantage Yes, there is. And part of the advantage is also racist. So I've had people come and say to me, "Wow, your English is so good." English is my first language. So I'm being complimented, but they're also showing the ignorance. I'm being othered in any case. But let's talk about some of the challenges. The challenges include belief systems. I grew up in a very conservative society, so I came here when I was 16 years old by myself with $300. So, um, challenge number one is how do you navigate a different mindset when you're 16 years old? What I mean by that is I go to school, I see children talking back to parents So that's not in our culture in Zimbabwe. People drinking, drinking alcohol and getting drunk in Zimbabwe, we consider that for the very low, low classes. Now of course in today's society things have changed, but when I was raised, that was like a completely— like you just don't see that, you don't experience that. And if it's done, it's done in so, so secret. But here it is like so open. So a lot of my challenges were absolutely cultural, as simple as in Zimbabwe you have dinner with your family. In Australia, people watch TV and sometimes don't even have dinner with their family. The isolation is huge. In Zimbabwe, there's strong community. In Australia, people are isolated. And then it goes to even things like technology. In Zimbabwe, we didn't have dedicated internet, and even internet today is more expensive than in Australia. Where in Australia you've got dedicated internet. So those were things that I had to navigate first and foremost. So mindset, belief systems— how do you connect with people when you've got a different belief system? Now what I will say today is it's so easy to judge the other. I'm being judged and I'm judging others. What I've learned about culture is I'm just going to shut the fuck up because I have to learn the history. I have to learn people's world. I had to learn to stop to judge. It took me maybe about 4 to 5 years to really feel connected, but I couldn't feel connected until I stopped judging. And this has nothing to do with Australia. This is when I've traveled to Thailand, when I've traveled to Indonesia, when I've traveled to France, when I've traveled to Hong Kong. It's so easy to judge, but that's a natural human instinct. So today, instead of judging, I get curious. Why are things the way they are? Why are things the way they are? And what's beneficial for me and what isn't? So community is beneficial for me, so I'm going to keep that. Isolating myself isn't. So, you know, my husband and I He's Brazilian. We have dinner together every morning. Nearly every morning we'll spend at least an hour and a half together. It's a privilege. We connect to the point where the cafe owner doesn't think we live in the same home. She came up to us and said, are you— do you actually live in the same home? Because you come here and you talk to each other. Yeah, we do, because we build a relationship. We love being with each other. We love it. It's just joyful. So I've learned not to judge but to be curious, take what I like and leave the rest. That's one around culture. The other thing I had to deal with is money. I came with $300, and then how was I going to navigate raising money for university? I learned to use my voice in a culture where in Zimbabwe the culture is work hard and hope you are seen and then rewarded. In Australia, the culture is work smart, ask, don't wait. So I had to learn to ask for help. I had to learn as a 16-year-old, I don't have money, I'd like to go to university, can you help? And I had to learn that when a person says no, I can't help, it's not a personal rejection that I'm not worthy and that I don't deserve to exist. Because at the beginning, when I asked for help, it was personal when somebody says no. In my world, if somebody said yes, it meant I was worthy. If somebody said no, it meant that I was not worthy. Today I understand if somebody says no, it doesn't mean anything about my existence. They may not be able to help for many reasons. They've got children of their own, they don't have money. It's nothing to do with my existence. So I had to learn that, but I had to learn to ask for help. So forging my own path is not a personal phenomenon. I am community-made. I am not self-made. In a culture, in a world where we value self-made, self-made millionaire, self-made billionaire, it's bullshit. There's no such thing as self-made. And so, so many people will try and do things alone, which creates the isolation. So, and you said it perfectly, I had to find my tribe, my community, to build me up. But I had to ask. I had to ask.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 37:53
How did you find your tribe?
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 37:55
When you start a journey of asking for help, and this is the same as, let's say, finding friends isn't it? It's a journey. Sometimes you meet a person, you connect immediately, but then over time you think, mm, this person is not quite right, and then you learn from the experience. So in my journey from asking for help, I also started learning what is, or who are, good people and who aren't good people. And so again, it's courageous to put put myself at issue. It's courageous to be that vulnerable and ask for help. Asking for help is definitely an act of vulnerability because it's a— somebody could say no to you. But along the journey, I started gaining wisdom around it, so then it makes many other things faster. I'll give you an example on the court. So imagine I'm 16 years old, I'm asking for help to go to university. And I went to university for 6 years because I did a double degree and an honors year. So every year I have to discover how am I going to raise $20,000. That's what it was like. And that's just for university fees. Don't— let's not even talk about the cost of living, you know, books and all the other things that come with learning and just life itself. So I raised over $120,000 over 6 years. Now, when it comes to my book Dreams, you know, Dreams Forge My Own Path, I was very specific. I knew I wanted my voice to be global, and I knew I couldn't do that in Australia. I had to partner with the Americans to make my voice global, but I didn't have the money, but I had a community. I asked for help. And a person, one person in one email said yes and invested over $120,000 so that my book could get the power and movement to be global. Can you see the level of power? So $120,000, it took me over 6 years. Today I can raise $100,000 in one email. So I've learned something about asking for help in the journey in the past 24 years. Now this is the thing, this person I asked them, because I also work with them as a leadership coach, I said to them, what is your greatest accomplishment at the end of the year? They said their investment in $100,000 because they knew they were elevating and elevating people's lives all around the world. They'll get their money back, but they're not asking for the money. They're happy to wait 10 years, however long it takes for me to create the return on investment, but clear communication around that, of course. So that's an example. There's no way my book could be global. I'm a Black gay African man who's come to Australia by themselves, and I took a chance building a company, my company, myself over the past 10 years.. If I fail, there's no mommy and daddy to go back to. Can I live with you? You know, if you're born in Australia, you know, one of my clients was telling me they moved back in with their husband's family to build their business. That's not an option for me. So I have to think with my life circumstances and create my community to deal with that. And it's possible. And I want to say this very clearly: it's possible, but it takes courage to be that vulnerable. Because let's say you're born in Australia, you don't need to be that vulnerable to create these things.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 41:42
Yeah, because you have safety nets.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 41:44
You have safety nets. So for us migrants, we need to be even more vulnerable. We have to stop pretending we have it handled. Because what I would prefer is I'd love people to see me and think that, you know, everything is all good, you know, I can just go out and have that $16 cocktail I can't. I've got to put that back into my business. I can't. $16,000 of my money every year goes back to supporting my family in South Africa, my mom, my dad, and my sister. So let me not pretend that I'm like you. I'm not. But we want to. We want to so badly be like everybody else. But this is the power. I thought being gay, being Black, and my circumstances were the greatest disadvantage. But what I discovered, and it moves me, is that being myself is the greatest agent to change the world. When we look after the most disadvantaged person in our society, we elevate all of society. So for you today who's listening, no matter what walk in life you might— your life might be fine, no problem— find somebody to elevate their life. It will change your life and it will change the world. And if you're somebody who has had many struggles like myself, you know, our transgender community, the most targeted At the moment, the most disadvantaged and most persecuted person is actually the most powerful person in our society. They're the ones who cause us to be better. So who are we going to be in the face of the most persecuted person in society? That's when we get to see who we really are.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 43:46
Is it your final word of wisdom for migrants? It is a powerful thing to say, actually, that power can come from unexpected places, you know, from the powerless.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 44:03
Yes, that's it. And so that was the biggest learning. I can't control whether somebody is going to like me or hate me because of the color of my skin.. I can't control whether I'm going to be persecuted because I'm gay. I can't control any of that. I can't. I actually cannot. I can't control the trade policies or the policies that are coming out of the United States that affect the whole world. I can't control that. But there's only one thing I can control, and this is for any person. That's any person— male, female, non-binary, any person, whatever you identify as. I can control who I say I am and who I say I be. That's it. And that's true power. That's the power. So nobody can take that away from me, and that's my birthright. So everybody's trying to legislate taking away my power, but it's a power nobody actually can take away unless I let them. That's what I learned. So my boundary is I get to be me. You can legislate it, but I'm still going to be gay, I'm still going to be black, and I'm still going to make a difference in the world. You can put me in prison. Nelson Mandela went to prison. You can put him in prison, but he was still free.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 45:28
Do you have like a practical advice for the migrants out there who feel they have to suppress parts of their identity to survive, to belong, something actionable that they perhaps can do so that it is not as painful.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 45:45
So a practice for me is just firstly, just stop. Just stop and acknowledge that you're wondrous. You've already survived so much wherever you're at. Whatever you've done or not done, however you have coped, however you have coped— some of us have coped by drinking alcohol, some of us have coped by taking drugs, some of us— myself, I'm a recovering sex addict, I escaped through sex— however we have coped, we are wondrous. We've done our best to be where we're at today, and we had no choice. It's not a choice. We had to find a way to survive excruciating pain. The second thing is just start trying to find a space for connection, finding the tribe. Don't do any of it alone. Don't do any of it alone. Find a safe space. Now, to come back to my friend in Nigeria, He's thriving. Life is really hard for him, but the more he's created safe spaces— so he even openly, like, likes my posts, you know, expresses as a queer person, a gay man— I can see him blooming. Blooming. That's what connection does. It's a power greater than ourself. So just start finding a safe space, because I know we've tried so hard alone, and I know we've had so much pressure from ourselves and our families and our communities to win and be successful. I know you're sending money home to make their lives better, and those people back home may not understand the sacrifices in Australia. They may even be living a better life than you where you're sending the money than where you are at here in Australia. They don't know that and don't understand that because it is hard.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 47:57
What do you think is the hardest? You think it's the isolation that makes it hard in Australia the most?
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 48:04
Emma, you ask such good questions. How do I answer this one? I think, I think this is a hard question because it's like crossing the bridge. Isn't it? So when I look at my Indian friends and community, they seem to easily create a community amongst themselves, so they seem to have support. When I think of the Zimbabwean community, we as Zimbabweans, it's very easy for us to integrate in a Eurocentric culture because of the way we've been raised. And in fact, Zimbabweans according to the statistics, will be more likely to marry outside their culture than within, which is different from, let's say, the Chinese or the Indian. So I think it's so different depending on the resources and the cultures you have. And then if you're a European, you're coming in with your euros or your pounds, so maybe it's easy to set yourself up. So I don't know what the hardest is for any person, but for me, the hardest things were definitely community, resourcing. I run my own business, and when you go online, it will look like I am very successful, and I am. I produce results. But what's hard is— this is what's hard in the background there are many people who are championing me on to open doors because most of Australia is a corporate white Australia. They see a black face, so already that's a barrier. So it requires typically a white person to open a door for me, and my champions are white middle-aged women. That's nearly how my entire business has opened up. And still does. So once I get a foot in the door and people have an interaction with me, yes, things grow, you know, word of mouth recommendations. But my business isn't going to grow on my own two feet. I have to deal with the reality of the world. I have to deal with the reality of my present situation. And that's my experience. Other people may have a different experience, but that's my experience. When I've coached other people of color, it seems to be the similar story. So find a community, ask for help. I still do, and there's no shame in that.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 50:36
It's good for people to hear about that, I think, because it really goes against the do-it-yourself, the self-made illusion, right, that you were mentioning.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 50:48
Yes, it's an illusion. It's an illusion. And we don't talk about it. We go on LinkedIn, we go onto blogs, people are not talking about it. People, you just see this finished product. I've got my book, I'm an international bestseller. If there was behind the scenes, that was perhaps even 2 years of work just for the publishing, let alone the 4 years of writing.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 51:11
Actually, speaking about books, you mentioned 2 books, your book and another one at the beginning of the conversation, but Do you have any other books that you would like to share with the audience? Oh gosh, because I know you are— you love reading.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 51:25
I love books. I love books. One of the books that my personal trainer— so this is again community— so my former personal trainer, maybe 3 years ago, he recommended a book called Ego Is the Enemy by Ryan Holiday. Amazing. Any book by Ryan Holiday, go and read it. Any book, doesn't matter. It changes your life. Ryan Holiday is a white man, white cis man in America, but he wrote the stories. And I'll give you an example why this book was important to me. He was sharing stories of, you know, during the time of segregation and Black people who couldn't play professional NBA or professional baseball and the kind of things they had to deal with. And what I learned from the book is whenever you're up to something big in life, the world is going to tell you don't do it. Like, the people were being spat on, you know, people who were being beaten up, people— they're calling names. And what I learned from my four ancestors is that you have to just keep going. That's all noise. And so I got strength from their humility that despite the horrors of how they were treated, they kept going. And their going is a power for me to keep going. So it doesn't matter what people say about me. You know, before I launched the book, I actually was like so scared that I was going to get lots of homophobia or racism. So I was actually prepared for that and also how to protect my husband from that because, you know, he didn't ask for that. This is my journey, but he has made it his journey. The surprising thing is that I have not received any homophobia. I've not received any racism, nothing. In fact, this is what happened. Nothing ever. This is what actually happened. People from all around the world, from Poland, Germany, even states from Guinea in West Africa, were reaching out to me to celebrate me. And I was so shocked. So what I expected versus reality was very different as well. So I think part of courage is also to be open to that people are more loving than we expect them to. And that's been my experience, and I mentioned this in my book Traveling the world showed me that even in conservative cultures, I've always been accepted. Sometimes a lot of the noise is from a political, legal level. I'm making generalizations, but what I think— this is my personal opinion based on my life experience— the world is more loving than we think it is. And then there's just a few people who are louder in hate. That really have an impact to most of the people who live in love.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 54:36
Yeah, yeah. It's funny because I think we are so bombarded with hate on social media that, you know, we probably forget that there is perhaps more compassion than we think around us.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 54:48
Absolutely. And Emma, that's why for me it's an absolutely great honor to be part of your life and your community, because our voices and our stories like this are not the predominant stories. They're overshadowed by the hate, which is actually the minority voices. I live in Sydney in an area, it's like the Balmain area, where maybe many people are in their 50s and 60s. And I would think, oh my God, they're going to be so old school, they're going to be closed-minded, they won't understand gay They are the most loving people. Most loving. The number of times people have come up to my husband and I, "What a beautiful couple. We just love seeing you." It always shocks me that what my preconceived idea versus reality is different. Now I understand I live in Balmain area. It's a more liberal-minded area. But I had my own prejudices of the community, and they've shown me something different. They've shown me love. Even the tradie comes up to us. I remember the tradie, the tradie, when they're doing their road. They were compelled. They said, this man, straight, you know, Australian tradie, I, I've been watching you guys. You guys have so much love. I just feel this aura of love around you. For me, I think like the trader is like the most disconnected, the most prejudiced, one of the most prejudiced. I'm always found to be wrong. So I think, what am I trying to communicate? Be yourself and you'll be surprised how much love there actually is. Yes, there may be some hate. Yes, there may be people who disagree, but my experience is that there is there's actually more love out there in the world than hate. It's just not always expressed. So that's why what you're doing, Emma, is critical to humanity. Critical.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 56:57
And I think it joins the conversation on when you are really yourself, there is an energy about you that is really about love. And I think you attract it back because people feel that there is authenticity, it's almost irresistible in a way. Yes, it's contagious.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 57:15
It is contagious. It's like love begets love, you know. And I'm a Beyoncé fan. I'm obsessed with Beyoncé. I'm obsessed with Destiny's Child. I love Beyoncé. I love Kelly Rowland. I love Michelle Williams. And, you know, there's always this conversation of, from, you know, when people interview Kelly 'Kaylee Rowland.' It's like they try to, try to compare her, try to put her in a situation of comparison, and Kaylee owns it. And this is what she says: 'Light attracts light.' She owns her light. It's like, 'Well, Beyoncé is my friend because I'm light myself.' That's her communication. Light begets light. Simple. It's just that simple. So shine, people, shine. Once you're on your journey of just being yourself, it changes everything. Yes, and there's science around that apparently as well. I'm not a scientist, but apparently there's science around all of this too.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 58:18
Do you have a guest you would like to hear on this podcast?
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 58:24
Oh, let me give a moment to think about that. Just give me a brief moment. That's a very powerful question because There's so many good people in my life. The one— there's so many. The one I'm going to suggest is somebody I've had some deep conversations with lately. Her name is Emagnus. Emagnus. She's also— she's Zimbabwean-Australian and lives in Brisbane. And her life story and her journey of coming to Australia after having worked for global brands in Zimbabwe, where in Australia they don't even value her global experience and having to start from scratch. I think her story is very powerful because of the things she's had to navigate and her perseverance, things that she should never have had to if she had gone to England or the United States. Her experience would have been utterly accepted as a given. But in Australia, they have this thing where they say, what's your Australian experience? It's weird. It's a weird thing because it has so many exceptional people not be in part of the workforce. And then like, huh, they're a taxi driver, but look at his experience, people. She is an extraordinary, extraordinary marketing girl, a magnus. A magnus.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:00:00
Okay, let's get in touch, definitely. So I have two final sets of questions that I like to ask at the end of an interview. And the first one is, when I say the word migrant, what are the words that instinctively come to mind?
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 1:00:15
Infinite possibility.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:00:16
Ah, I like that.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 1:00:18
Yes. And I say infinite possibility because a migrant is a person who's curious, courageous, and a leader. Migrants change the world. If you look at anything that has like typically had any value in life, it's a migrant. Australian migrant goes to the UK. What do the British people say about the Australian? They're the most hardworking person. When a migrant comes to Australia, who are the ones creating innovation? It's the migrant. Same thing. That's why even America has been in the past been an open country because the migrant is what built America. Infinite possibility. I'm actually going to change my word. Power is what I'm left with when I talk it out. Power.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:01:04
Power. I love that. And Ruggeri, as someone who's experienced many transitions, many transformations, personally, professionally, and culturally. Would you say that you can express your authentic self everywhere you go today, or almost everywhere you go today, or is your authenticity confined to safe spaces?
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 1:01:30
No, my authenticity isn't confined to safe spaces, but it's twofold. So even within the queer community, there are sometimes non-safe spaces within the queer community. Another way said is I'm typically also the only Black person in queer communities that shows up. And there's also queer culture. I don't— there's queer gay men culture. I typically am not part of that culture, so I stand out, but I still will be part of it because it matters. It matters. So I sometimes go into those spaces and I don't feel connected, but then I go in the spaces saying, what is going to be my role to create connection, to create safety? Yes, to create safety. Because then, because for the others who come after me, I want them to feel safe there. I don't want them to have to do the work that I'm doing.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:02:30
Yeah. So it's really about instilling safety for others to be able to feel like they are safe as well.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 1:02:37
Yes.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:02:39
And there is a responsibility to create that safety.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 1:02:41
Correct. And that's why diversity matters. That's why it's important to have diversity on boards. That's why it's important to have diversity in your workspace. And I'll tell you, even today, you talk about authenticity, but my gut instinct is I don't feel safe because I'm the only person. Diversity matters. Imagine if you're a white person and you're always going into spaces, let's just say, full of Indians or full of Chinese people, full of only Black people, and maybe people don't talk to you, or maybe people don't understand your worldview. It's isolating. So even still today, I take a deep breath and go into those spaces but I've got my mission to make it a safe space so that others before me— it's both ways— education, I make people feel safe with me, and so that others after me can feel safe. It matters.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:03:36
I didn't really, yeah, see it this way before I talked to you, because I really thought that safety needed to exist prior to you being able to express your true self. But actually, we also have a responsibility to create that sense of safety, even though So there are structures at play that may go against us. But yeah, there is as well at an individual level something that you can do to make it safer for others, even if it's about joking about something that may be perceived as a weakness or a difference. And then it allows people that have perhaps a different type of differences to be like, oh, I'm safe perhaps to express my difference.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 1:04:18
Yes. And if I want somebody to be able to accept my difference, I've got to accept their difference too. So it's both ways. So the best way to create safety is start by stopping judgmental and create connection because that's where, that's where the safety for diversity starts, connection.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:04:39
And now that we are talking about belonging at a broader level, which of Zimbabwe or Australia feels more like home to you?
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 1:04:48
Australia is my home.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:04:50
Australia?
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 1:04:50
Absolutely. Australia is my home. So Zimbabwe is my spiritual home. I honor and respect my ancestors. That's a picture of my grandfather on my mother's side. Absolutely. I honor all the ancestors that have come before me. You know, my mom and my dad are still alive, who were denied an education. My grandmother who was denied an education. My grandmother, my grandfathers who had to fight to be free from British rule. You know, reclaiming our names and using our traditional names, not the names of the colonizers. So Zimbabwe is my spiritual home. I am who I am because of all the people who came before me. All of them helped me get to Australia. But in Australia, I found home.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:05:46
You found yourself.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 1:05:47
Yes. So Australia is my home now. I know I belong everywhere, but Australia is my home.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:05:54
You know, there is something very interesting about your story. I've interviewed many migrants, and a lot of the time they describe the act of migrating as a loss of identity. They've lost a part of themselves. But for you, it's about reclaiming yourself. Yourself. You were safe enough that you could actually connect the dots about who you truly were. So it's not about a loss of identity, it's about reclaiming your identity.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 1:06:23
You just, you just started a whole new topic here, so may I have a moment to talk about this briefly?
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:06:28
Of course.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 1:06:30
So when I came to Australia, I would have said my Zimbabwean identity does not matter. It's in my past. That's what I would have said. Like, let's— why are we even talking about colonization? We've moved on. That's how I would have talked when I was a 16-year-old. So when I talk about reclaiming my power and freedom, I got to value all of myself, and Australia has been the launching pad for that. So even when I say Zimbabwe criminalizes gay people, yeah, they may, but Zimbabwe is still my birthright. It's still my home. They can't take it away from me. I got to learn to reclaim all parts of myself. English is my first language. I am culturally British, people. I accept that and I love that. It's opened doors for me. I'm not a sellout. That's how I was raised. It is what it is. And I'm culturally British and I'm Zimbabwean. I'm not one thing, I'm all of it. And I'm a gay man and I'm black, you know, all of it.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:07:51
Yeah, it's about accepting all parts of yourself even though they may seem contradictory or Yes, yes, yes.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 1:08:00
So that's why I talk about reclaiming my power, because my mindset was like, forget about, move on, forget about your past, let's just keep moving forward. And that's a survival mindset. But I am more. And when people meet me, they may think, oh yes, you're culturally British, or you're English-speaking, or you're Australian, or whatever I am. But I am more. I am more. That's why I am powerful. Because I am more. I'm not one thing.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:08:26
I think that's the golden thread of the interview. Ruggeri, thank you so much for sharing your authentic self with me today. It's beautiful to get to know you, to get to know more about your story. I'm in awe about the way you were able to really own your power, to really own your space.
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 1:08:55
Really. Thank you very much. And I acknowledge, you know, my mom, my dad, who had the courage to let me go at 16 years old. My grandmother was denied an education and forged her own path so that my mom could be the first girl to go to school. I acknowledge all the migrants, the First Nation people, Australians, for this beautiful country. Where today I do feel safe and can dare to dream and find pockets of opportunity. And I have gained a friend in you, Emma. So, you know, if everything else is said and done, I have got to meet a wonderful person who is living, living a legacy right now. L-I-V-I-N-G. And I'm grateful to be part of your life and community today. Thank you for this opportunity.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:09:46
Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you. And by the way, for people who want to contact you, follow you, where should they go?
Rugare Gomo (Guest) · 1:09:53
Yes, so you can follow me. I've got my personal website, www.rugaregomo.com, but you can also find me on socials. So I'm big on LinkedIn, Instagram. I got many YouTube videos, but I love people reaching out to me. Reach out to me on LinkedIn or via my website.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:10:13
Thank you so much for today. Thank you, Eva. Thank you for listening to this episode. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Rougare. If the content of our discussion resonated with you in some way, please share this episode with a friend, leave us a review, or add stars in the rating of the show. And don't forget to follow us. It really, really helps this community grow. Next week, I will be interviewing Yaser Nazari, who's a former refugee from Iran with an unbelievable story. He'll share how his political activism made it impossible to stay, and he'll take us through his boat escape survival journey in very moving details. His time in detention, and the everyday struggles of starting over as an asylum seeker with no language skills or resources. I was your host, Emma Bellamy, and I cannot wait to bring you on another journey from there to here.
You don't have to be in crisis to call.
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