Serena Low · 41 min
Serena Low's journey from Singapore to Australia reveals how introversion, so often framed as a barrier, can become the very foundation of resilience, belonging, and quiet leadership in a new country.
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Serena Low arrived in Australia from Singapore as a lawyer in her mid-30s, carrying with her a quiet temperament that would shape everything about her settlement. In those early years, her introversion felt like a barrier. She struggled to understand Australian accents and slang but hesitated to ask for help, preferring to solve problems alone rather than inconvenience others. She had no established network and no framework for building one. A welcoming church near her home became her first anchor, introducing her to the rhythms of Australian life and showing her that people here actually want to help if you ask.
What shifted was her recognition that her quietness was not a disadvantage to overcome but a strength to build from. Her natural ability to listen and observe became an asset when paired with extroverted friends who brought her into new circles. After a year of exhausting herself at loud business networking events, she started an introvert meetup group on a winter's day in Melbourne, uncertain anyone would come. Fourteen strangers arrived. That group evolved into a thriving community built on low-stimulation activities, nature walks, art exhibitions, museum visits, where deep conversation happens without small talk.
Seven years of martial arts training taught Serena something crucial: she could be the quietest person in a room and still rise to a challenge when called upon. She named this identity the quiet warrior. Real leadership, she argues, does not come from talking the loudest. It comes from substance, wisdom, and knowing when to speak because you have something worth saying. For migrant introverts feeling diminished, Serena's advice is clear: find your community first. Surround yourself with people who understand you and with others a step or two ahead. Seeing someone like you who has moved further ahead makes it possible to believe you can get there too.
“These are my quiet strengths. So I'm going to operate from this place. I'm not going to try to be something that I'm not because that's not congruent with who I am.”
“Start with community first. Start by building your own network of allies, of people who understand you.”
“Adventure is one and outsider is the other. It can also mean leaving behind a lot of what makes your identity and what makes you who you are.”
The hero, today
As an introvert arriving in a new country, Serena did not ask for help when she did not understand Australian accents or slang because she wanted to solve problems quietly rather than put others out, a tendency that kept her isolated for years until she learned Australians value directness and are willing to help if asked. Serena spent a year exhausting herself trying to network the extrovert way, talking louder and working the room, before realizing there had to be a better way and starting an introvert meetup group that has become a thriving community built on shared interests rather than small talk. Serena's belief that introversion was a disadvantage in migration shifted when she learned to see her natural listening, observation, and depth as distinct strengths that complement louder personalities and bring a different kind of value to groups. The turning point for Serena came through seven years of martial arts training, which taught her about boundaries and standing her ground, and led her to name herself a quiet warrior, someone who can be the quietest person in the room but rise to a challenge when called upon. Serena advises introverted migrants to build community first, surrounding themselves with people who understand them and with others a step or two ahead, because seeing someone like you who has moved further ahead makes you believe you can get there too.
Yes. Serena Low is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
As an introvert arriving in a new country, Serena did not ask for help when she did not understand Australian accents or slang because she wanted to solve problems quietly rather than put others out, a tendency that kept her isolated for years until she learned Australians value directness and are willing to help if asked.
Serena spent a year exhausting herself trying to network the extrovert way, talking louder and working the room, before realizing there had to be a better way and starting an introvert meetup group that has become a thriving community built on shared interests rather than small talk.
Serena's belief that introversion was a disadvantage in migration shifted when she learned to see her natural listening, observation, and depth as distinct strengths that complement louder personalities and bring a different kind of value to groups.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 00:15
Hello and welcome to From There to Here, the podcast where we get real about what it takes to build a new life far from home. I'm your host, Emma Bellamy, and today I'm thrilled to introduce Serena Low, a leading voice for introverts and the founder of the Quiet Warrior Podcast. Serena is also an ex-lawyer, a trauma-informed coach, a therapist, and a bestselling author. She's originally from Singapore and migrated to Australia as an adult. Her experience, personal and professional, has given her a unique perspective on migration as an introvert, and she speaks brilliantly about what it means to rebuild and thrive in a new country as someone who leans more on the quiet side. Let's dive in to learn from Serena's journey and discover her insights on navigating migration as an introvert. Serena, hello! Welcome to the podcast From There to Here. I'm really excited about this very special episode today.
Serena Low (Guest) · 01:35
Me too. Thank you so much, Emma, for having me here.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 01:38
Yay! So Serena, you are originally from Singapore and you migrated to Australia years ago. Against all odds, you transitioned from being a lawyer to becoming a coach and advocate for introverts and what you call quiet achievers. So your experiences as both a migrant and an introverted person have become key aspects of your life. So I guess that my first question to you is, what is it about being an introvert that made your move to Australia Singhlar in the early days and as you settled in?
Serena Low (Guest) · 02:21
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The turning point for Serena came through seven years of martial arts training, which taught her about boundaries and standing her ground, and led her to name herself a quiet warrior, someone who can be the quietest person in the room but rise to a challenge when called upon.
This conversation includes a lawyer from singapore arrives in australia, the accent barrier and the fear of asking, building a network from scratch, the church community becomes her anchor, listening as an asset, not a weakness and the exhausting year of fake networking.
I think in the early days it was difficult because number one, I had to get used to the Australian accent. And I realised that there isn't just one accent. People from different states speak differently. People in the city speak differently from people who grew up in the country. And so it took me a little while to work out what everybody was saying. And of course, all the Aussie slang, that took a while to understand as well. So being introverted meant that sometimes when I wasn't sure of what was required of me, I actually had difficulty asking for help or saying that I didn't understand because that's that side of me that just wants to quietly solve problems by myself, not be a trouble to anybody, not put myself in an inconvenient or awkward situation. So I didn't really want to ask questions, but I found out that here, when you ask people help, people are actually very willing to help, but you need to be the one to be proactive and ask. And that took me a few years to actually really take on board and be more courageous in asking.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 03:33
Is it different in Singapore?
Serena Low (Guest) · 03:36
I think it's different because Singapore is where I was born, where I grew up, where I spent 36 years. So of course, I was very familiar with the environment. I knew how everything worked. But when you come to a new country, you don't know how the system works. You have an idea, but you also have to pull together information from all over the place, right? So, you know, looking online for information, asking friends, asking family, asking people who are already here, and then slowly building your network. Because, you know, where in your own home country you've spent decades building up a certain network, you know who to go to to ask questions. But when you're starting over, you don't have that network. You don't know who to ask. Sometimes you don't even know what's the right question to ask. And you feel very, if I ask this question, will I look very foolish? And you become very self-conscious. So then you don't dare to ask. And so it goes round like that, like a spiral.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 04:31
Did it take you longer for that reason to build your network?
Serena Low (Guest) · 04:35
It did, because I I had this idea that I wanted to integrate as quickly as possible, to immerse myself and really get to know the culture. And so I deliberately did not stick to my own culture. And that was a good thing, but it also meant that because I didn't have a network, I didn't really know where to start looking. Like, where do people go? What do people do on the weekend? How do people make friends? How do you make friends when you're in your 30s in a new country? All your friends are in your home country. Everybody knows everybody from school, right? But here you don't know anybody and you've just started. You are a nobody. So how do I make friends? So fortunately, we started attending a church that was close to our home. And the people there, they were so welcoming. They became like my second family here. So they showed us everything, like how to do things. They would drop by and visit. They would invite us over, they would show us, you know, the culture, the local culture, like, this is an Aussie barbecue, this is what we do on a weekend, this is how we spend family time, this is what we like to do, go out to the park, go out to, you know, outdoor things. And so they introduced us to the Australian way of life. So for that, we are forever grateful. So they were our first network.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 05:55
I got a sense that being introverted was in a few different ways a bit of a challenge. But I wonder whether there were instances where it was actually an advantage, because I'm thinking that as an introverted person, introspection and observation would come to you more naturally. And that can in itself be an asset when you arrive in another country. Did you experience this?
Serena Low (Guest) · 06:22
I didn't experience it initially because I wasn't at that time able to articulate or to recognize that this was the asset. To me, it seemed that the louder you are, the more gregarious you are, the more outgoing you are, the easier it is for you to make friends, just like back home. And what really helped was having extroverted friends take me under their wing and show me things and introduce me to people, because they love talking, right? And I love listening. So we make a very good, you know, contrast to each other. So I'll be the quiet one in the group, I'll be quietly observing, I'll be listening to, you know, and I'll learn a lot of things that way without having to talk very much. And my extroverted friends will always— they, they know, they can see that I'm not like them, and they don't force me to talk a lot, or they'll explain to other people who don't know me that Serena's like that. And so it was actually a very good complementary kind of friendship.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 07:21
It's interesting. And when you are surrounded by extroverts, Do you experience what we call code-switching, where you feel like you need to adapt to a more extroverted type of thinking or behaving?
Serena Low (Guest) · 07:36
Most of the time, yes, because usually social gatherings are organized by people who love people, who love hanging out with people, right? So we get invited and I'll be like standing in the corner with my, you know, cup of tea or whatever. I'll be observing the room, but not really knowing how to fit in. And how to have a conversation, and it will all be very awkward. But if I were the one hosting, then it would be different, just because of my introverted style. So yes, it does make a difference. The code-switching happens. It can happen in personal social gatherings. It can happen in business networking gatherings, where you read the room and you sense that, okay, the dominant culture here is to speak up, to be loud, to be confident, to talk a lot. And how do I fit into this? I don't really fit into this. So there's only two choices for me. Either I learn to be like them, and that's the code switching, or I find another way to network.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 08:36
What is this other way that you found?
Serena Low (Guest) · 08:38
So the other way I found was actually came out of my own experiences. I spent one whole year going to a lot of business networking meetings, doing all the things that the mentors and experts tell you to do. To fake it till you make it, talk louder, you know, increase your volume, be more proactive, work the room, give out your business cards, and so on and so on. I was exhausted. I remember standing at the threshold of this one room where there were like 60 to 80 people. It was a very large networking event. The music was so loud. Everybody was talking to everybody. There were all these little groups around, and I thought, Do I even want to be here? Do I even belong here? Maybe I should just go home now. But it took me 1.5 hours to drive across Melbourne to attend this event. So I went to the ladies, gave myself a few minutes to think about it and to calm myself down, and then I went back in. I didn't really enjoy the experience, but it taught me a lot about how networking is done and how it tends to be organized by people who have a very different personality type from me. And I thought, there has to be a better way of networking. So about 8 years ago, when I was Googling online for introvert groups in Melbourne, I realized there wasn't any. And then I came across this app called Meetup. And I discovered that what they do is they use keywords to connect people based on common interests. So let's say if you enjoy hiking, they will show you all the hiking groups that are near you. And so that was, I thought, Well, this, this has potential. Let me try something with it. And so I started my first meetup group just for introverts in Melbourne. And I thought, I wonder if anybody's going to turn up because we're all introverts and we don't really like to meet new people. And I started my first group in winter and I went to this pub, this restaurant that I had made arrangements with. And I just waited to see if anybody would show up. And on a winter's day in June, 14 people came who didn't know each other at all and whom I didn't know either. So then I knew that there was a hunger for this kind of connection. And so since then, the group has, you know, pivoted, has evolved, and now we have two groups. So one just for the ladies and one that's an open group, there's a bigger one. And what we do is we have weekly Zoom calls so that people can drop in and talk to somebody, and they don't have to be even in Australia. We've had people drop in from different parts of the world. And they just get drawn because it's fellow introverts, so they feel very safe to be themselves. And then we also have in-person events in the Melbourne CBD where I take them on things that are low stimulation to cater to the fact that some people are neurodivergent, some people are socially anxious, some people have sensory processing issues. And so we try to choose places that are not too noisy, not too crowded, We go for walks in nature quite a lot, and then we finish with a coffee and have some conversation. We go to art exhibitions, we go to the museums. There are quite a few of them in Melbourne. We go and do quirky things that are sort of like discovering gems in your own backyard. So you become a tourist in the place where you live. And so that has worked out really well, and we have quite a good community now. That know each other. And even when new people come along, they feel immediately very welcome. And they start chatting with each other, like no small talk, straight into all the deep, philosophical, juicy, really rich conversations. It's amazing to watch.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 12:19
Oh my gosh, I love that. And I'm actually really surprised because I was expecting you to say, well, I guess one-on-one interaction would be the way I anticipated introverts to want to meet, but you guys actually meet in groups, but it's just about the stimulation level and the type of activities that you do. It kind of like reshapes the way I was thinking about the way introverts can connect. It's interesting. And so based on your insights, because you've been organizing these events as well, you have the podcast, The Quiet Warriors, you've coached many, many introverts. What is it, in your opinion, that distinguishes introverts from extroverts in the context of migration?
Serena Low (Guest) · 13:12
I think the difference is that when you're extroverted and you're migrating, you are drawn to other people. So you don't have so much of a problem asking for help, making yourself known, networking, going out and doing things. When you're introverted, because you are inside your head a lot, you tend to overthink everything. Will these people like me? Does my accent sound funny? How do I fit in? You know, what should be the right way to say? What's the custom here? And, you know, how do I not stick out too much? So when you're not in your own home country, there are certain things that will pop out that make you feel a bit self-conscious. Sometimes it could be the accent. Sometimes it's the jokes, the things that are not written that are understood by people who are local. And have been local for a number of years, but if you are in your first year or your fifth year, there are some things you're still not used to. And those things you can't rush. You pick them up along the way. So you do need to give yourself that time to get used to the rhythm of how this new life works and not be too hard on yourself if you make mistakes or you say something wrong, because all of us are doing that. And so just be kind to yourself in the process.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 14:26
Something that I'm fascinated with is the extent to which our personality are culturally constructed, or the extent to which culture influences personality. And because I know you come from Singapore, I wonder whether you got a sense that introversion was more valued or perceived more positively in Singapore versus Australia.
Serena Low (Guest) · 14:55
I wouldn't exactly say that. Again, it depends on the context. Singaporeans tend to communicate in a very direct and no-nonsense way, so we don't spend too much time on small talk. We like to get things done, so we would go straight to the agenda and start ticking things off and bring the conversation back, you know. And so in Australia, it's a bit different. It's more about connections. It's about the small talk is a way of Building the rapport in the team, understanding where somebody's from. And so if you have something in common, like, you know, watching the footy or playing footy, or your children go to similar schools or a similar age, those are bonding things, right? And so that enables you to slowly make your way into the group and be part of the group. So I think it's still essential to understand how that group dynamic works. But of course, it's different from workplace to workplace.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 15:50
Okay. Okay. So it's more about the small talk in your opinion. There is less small talk in Singapore and in Australia, it's the door to connection, which you would find very difficult as well as an introvert. It sounds a bit neurodivergent as well, right? Because this is something that neurodivergent people tend— I struggle with small talk as well, but I I have tried to change my perspective on it because it kind of makes people feel comfortable sometimes. And you can sense that some people want to stay at that level of conversation and they don't really feel like they really want to share something deep. And I'm trying to adapt to those people as well, but it is still a challenge for me. So is it, do you think, something that is introverted, or is it more to do with neurodivergence?
Serena Low (Guest) · 16:43
I am not sure about the neurodivergent side of it, but I do notice that introverts tend to go for depth and substance rather than what's superficial. So that's why when I ask them, you know, even when I ask them that question, they, they freely admit that they don't enjoy the small talk. They don't see the point of it. They just want to get straight to something that's interesting for them, something that's relevant to them, something that they can contribute to. So it can be, you know, very diverse topics. Like anytime we meet in the group, somebody wants to talk about sci-fi, somebody wants to talk about different literary genres. They start talking about things that are outside our knowledge, but they are very passionate and they have a lot of expertise to share. And when you really see them being expressive and articulate and very comfortable, But if you ask them, what do they do on the weekend, or how is their week going, sometimes they struggle to get into that headspace because that's not where they spend most of their time.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 17:43
I wonder how introverted people navigate a world that rewards extroverted behavior, because a lot in our society compels us to show and display extroverted behavior, and it praises it, right? We are conditioned in a way to show extraverted confidence and speak and sell ourselves in the context of our business. How can they respect their introverted nature in a world that rewards extroverted behavior?
Serena Low (Guest) · 18:17
I believe that the work always starts from within ourselves first, and then it projects outwards. That means instead of me trying to figure out, okay, so these are the external rules of this culture. Let me try and adapt myself to these rules. I may be able to do that up to an extent, but then I'll find it's very exhausting, very draining. At some point, I may wonder, why am I trying so hard to fit in when it's very obvious that the system is not designed for people like me? What about, let me go inside first, let me do my own inner work, And if there is something in there that needs to be improved, addressed, worked on, healed, whatever, I do that first. I take care of, you know, if I have imposter syndrome, let me go to the bottom of that and figure out why is that so. And then I take care of all that stuff. And I also learn to celebrate my introversion because they are strengths. People value introverts for being that person in the group who actually listens, that person that feels safe, that person that brings that calm energy or presence to a group meeting, that person who's actually paying attention to detail. All these things we take for granted because we've always been like that. But not many people may see that and articulate that and mirror that back to you and say, "I loved how you listened," or "How present you are," or "I really appreciate, you know, the calm energy you bring to this conversation when everybody else is getting all heated." And so we need to mirror that back to ourselves, and we need to take ownership of that and say, "These are my quiet strengths. So I'm gonna operate from this place. I'm not gonna try to be something that I'm not because that's not congruent with who I am. I need to be in integrity with myself because I'm designed this way, so there must be a purpose for that." There's something I can bring to this conversation, this group, this dynamic that other people don't have. If they are going to be talking all the time, I'm going to be listening harder. If they are going to be shouting, I'll be listening for and noticing what's not being said, what's inaccurate, what's missing, what is no one talking about, what's the elephant in the room, things like that. And it's the quiet ones When they find that opportunity to speak or write or otherwise communicate what they actually say, you notice everyone else goes quiet. Because when a quiet person speaks, it's after they have done a lot of thinking. They have done a lot of processing, filtering. They have considered all the angles, and they're very sure of what they're about to say. And that's when they speak. They don't just speak for the sake of speaking. So that's why when an introvert finally decides to speak up in a meeting, everybody goes quiet and realizes, wow, that was pretty powerful.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 21:15
And I wonder, in your case, when did you transition from, I need to adapt, to I celebrate my introverted nature? Was there a turning point?
Serena Low (Guest) · 21:28
There were several turning points, but one that I can clearly remember is The, the time when this Quiet Warrior concept came about, it came about because I did 7 years of martial arts training. And because of the physical nature and how hard and uncomfortable the training was and how confronting it was, I learned a lot about myself. And I also learned about boundaries. I learned about taking up space. I learned about putting my guard up. I learned about knowing when to tap out and how to deflect when attacked. So all these things, I think, shifted not only my thinking but also my body. So I started carrying myself quite differently. I started moving, walking, communicating quite differently because I had tapped into something that was hidden inside myself. And that is the quiet warrior. And that is the idea that you can be the quietest person in the world, but sometimes if you are called upon to say something or do something or take the lead in something, that is your opportunity to rise up to the challenge. Instead of saying, oh, I'm introverted, so I can't do public speaking. I'm introverted, so I can't do sales. I'm introverted, so don't invite me to a networking meeting. It'll be too awkward. So instead of all that, I invite people to acknowledge, yes, I'm a quiet achiever, but when necessary, I can also be the quiet warrior.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 23:00
I love that you have these two words in the same sentence, quiet warriors, because there is an assumption that leadership or being a warrior doesn't go with being quiet, doesn't go with introversion. And basically, I think that one of your missions is to debunk this idea.
Serena Low (Guest) · 23:19
Yes. A lot of leaders that we observe on the world stage or even in our own interactions in life, they are not necessarily the loudest people, but it's the people with a very unique kind of impact in that people listen to them. They have this wisdom, they have this inner certainty, and they are very selective about speaking and communicating. They don't just talk for the sake of talking, for appearance's sake. They do it very intentionally, and they have the substance behind them. They have the data behind them. They have that lived experience behind them. So when they speak, it comes from that place of, "This person knows what they're talking about," as opposed to, "This person is just lifting a couple of quotes from some book that they have read," or, "This person only knows the theory." You can tell the difference between somebody who has embodied what they are sharing with the world as somebody who's just picked a few things from here and there, maybe attended a few, you know, workshops, and then they're talking as though they are the authority. So it's a very quiet, very subtle kind of authority, but it's very deep.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 24:27
And that makes me think that it's perhaps what we would need. I think one of the things in politics that is regrettable is that confidence has become a proxy for competence, and we see a lot of very confident leaders and The more they are able to display this confidence, the more we think that they are competent and they're able to lead a country where I don't really think that should be seen this way. I think that we would probably need someone who doesn't really play this confidence bravado and actually is able to deliver in a more considered manner. I think we need to probably change the way we think about leadership. Have you reflected on that? Is there, do you think, a shift that is about to operate, or are we stuck in our ways that leadership is about dominance, it's about being very extroverted and confident?
Serena Low (Guest) · 25:26
I think the shift has already started to happen. It started probably with Susan Cain's book Quiet, and closer to home, my colleague Megumi Miki is an expert in this space of quiet leadership, and she has written a book called Quietly Powerful. And I think in all our workplaces, in schools, we probably have more awareness now than we used to, say, 10 years ago, that leadership isn't just about loudness. It's not just about force. It's a different kind of quality of power that has to be backed by competence, and it's also backed by empathy. And Brené Brown has written a lot of books on this. The Gifts of Imperfection is one that I referred to, and there's also one called Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert. That one is more to do with the creative process, but it also talks to imposter syndrome and the self-doubt that a lot of introverts face. And she has these strategies for how she copes when she has, let's say, a writing block, or she's doubting herself, or she feels, who is she to produce a bestseller? So all those are lessons that are universally applicable.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 26:36
And to circle back on migrants, I wonder whether you have an advice or a word of wisdom for migrants who feel devalued in a way, devalued due to their quiet nature?
Serena Low (Guest) · 26:51
I think it would depend first on why they see themselves as devalued, because the words we say to ourselves and the thoughts we take upon ourselves are our responsibility. So if I acknowledge that I'm an introvert, it doesn't mean that my value is less. So I need to be quite careful what I'm saying. About myself to other people. So what I would do is start with community. Because when you are an introvert, you feel like, as well as a migrant, you feel like an outsider, right? So start with the community first, start by building your own network of allies, of people who understand you. So what I found really helpful here in Melbourne is the Professional Migrant Women Network. Because they cater directly to migrant women who are professionals. And so when you see other people starting to do bigger things who are also introverts, and you see that they're becoming more visible, it can be very encouraging, very inspiring, and you realize, if they can do it, I can too. And there is a very good book that they put out 2 years ago. It's a collaborative book which has stories of all the professional migrant women and their stories of migration and transition and how they've coped with moving to Australia. It's called Undefeated, and it's a very good resource for migrant women.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 28:14
Are you in it? Are you one of those women?
Serena Low (Guest) · 28:17
Yes, I am.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 28:18
That's great. And you're so right that seeing people you can relate to, that you can identify with, being at the next level of their career, just one step ahead of you, can really help you visualize that you can be there one day. And it's really, really important. I don't think I had this insight when, personally, when I arrived in Australia. I don't think I came to this conclusion that I should surround myself with people who were a step ahead of me. And I regret that. I think that if I had done it sooner, I would have probably trusted myself more, or earlier, at least.
Serena Low (Guest) · 29:01
I think there is a timing to these things that cannot be rushed. Like you, in my initial years, I was also like that. It took me a while to get to realize the power of community. And maybe in the last 3, 2, 3 years or so, that, that has really become my biggest resource as well as my biggest platform for giving back. Because when you are with people who are going through a similar season in life, And then you see everybody's at a different stage. It teaches you a lot because you learn to be kinder to yourself. You remember that once upon a time you were like that. And then when you see someone who is a couple of steps ahead of you, you feel inspired because they were once like you too. And so everybody is on a different level or different part of their journey. And everyone is able to help the ones who are coming up behind and as well as surrounding themselves with inspiration from the ones who are ahead. And if everybody is reaching out and looking behind and seeing how we can help the next person along, then very quickly you build that kind of community and you realize you're not alone. And not only that, but you have all these wonderful— this collective pool of wisdom that you now have access to. All these people's stories, somebody has been through something very like what you are going through. And so no story is a new story in that sense. The details are different, but overall there will be certain themes that keep coming up. How to cope with this kind of situation, how to be a parent, you know, how to teach your children to speak their native language in an English-speaking country, how to make friends, how to find things to do on the weekend, you know, all those Little things. And women, particularly migrant women, are very good at all these things because naturally we want to help other people in a way that we have been helped. And we are just natural circle builders. So when women's circles, you know, come together, that's— there's no competition. It's just community. It's collaboration. It's sharing ideas, sharing stories. And that's how we become strong.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 31:17
Wise words. I like to think that we need two types of friends. We need the friend that lift us up and the friends that we can lift up. You know, I think that it's important to have both, to have these influences, and there is value in both types of relationships.
Serena Low (Guest) · 31:37
Exactly.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 31:39
And so I know that you've dropped so many book names, so I don't know whether you're going to be able to give us one for the introverted community and one more for migrants. I guess you have already dropped a lot of names, but in case you feel inspired to give us more inspiration for the books.
Serena Low (Guest) · 32:00
Well, there is one called Introverts in the Workplace, and it's by Thea Orozco. She writes it specifically for the corporate culture. So that's very useful. And of course, Susan Cain's book Quiet. I think that's required reading for every introvert. And there's also the one, The Highly Sensitive Person, that's by Dr. Elaine Aron, because some introverts are also highly sensitive, and those— there's some overlap there which is useful to know about. And if it's migrant stories, of course, it's, um, The Undefeated compilation by the Professional Migrant Women Network.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 32:37
Is there someone you would love to hear the story of on this podcast?
Serena Low (Guest) · 32:42
Who is a migrant woman?
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 32:43
Uh, who is a migrant woman or could speak to a perspective about migration?
Serena Low (Guest) · 32:48
It's funny, funny you ask that. The first name that came to mind is, um, Senator or Minister Penny Wong, but I don't know if she's a migrant or whether she's always been in Australia.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 33:00
Yeah, yeah, I wonder because she has an Australian accent, right? I have a tradition on the podcast. I usually ask two questions as the end of the interview approaches. And my first question to you is, when I say the word migrant, what words come to mind?
Serena Low (Guest) · 33:21
Adventure is one and outsider is the other. Hmm.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 33:27
One positive, one negative.
Serena Low (Guest) · 33:29
Well, yes, you can look at it that way because there's Yes, there's always those nuances. When you're making a big move like that, it has many implications. Yes, it can feel like an adventure, especially if you did it intentionally, but it can also mean leaving behind a lot of what makes your identity and what makes you who you are. And so there is that potential loss, that sense of, who am I now? And that's why I also talk about being the outsider.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 34:01
Yeah, there is definitely a duality. This sense of excitement and this loss of identity is exactly what a lot of migrants— and almost everyone that I have actually interviewed— has felt once in their life. Um, and I usually ask a question that is about belonging. And for you, as an introverted migrant, I'm interested to know where you feel a sense of belonging without the need to code-switch or adapt to other expectations? Is there a place that feels like home, safe? Is there a place like that?
Serena Low (Guest) · 34:40
Do you mean a physical place?
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 34:41
Physical place, yeah.
Serena Low (Guest) · 34:43
Well, of course, at home. Isn't that where every introvert loves to be?
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 34:49
It's probably exactly that. Yeah, alone reading room.
Serena Low (Guest) · 34:56
Yes. Yes. Or in any peaceful place. I can also be in a crowded place, but if I can find a nook to be by myself and nobody's disturbing me, then I can also feel very much at peace.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 35:11
Is it hard to feel at peace with people, or can you, can you actually feel completely at peace today with people around you? At peace in a way where you are your introverted self, you don't need to code-switch. Do you feel like this today?
Serena Low (Guest) · 35:31
I'm still working on it. It depends on the group. It depends if they are, if they are fellow introverts, it's very easy. But if it's a mixed group or it's a group of mostly very loud and dominant personalities who talk a lot, I might feel a bit crowded out, like I don't have space to be myself. But if they are the understanding sort, if there is a facilitator who is making space for everybody, then it's possible. Yeah. But actually, the more important thing about that, because those are all external factors which I have no control over, the more important thing is me taking responsibility. So self-responsibility. So I need to be doing that inner work that I mentioned earlier. I need to be doing my daily practices to ground myself, center myself, remind myself of my quiet strengths. Um, going back to that inner peaceful place inside me that doesn't depend on the outer world. So finding my own haven or refuge or bubble even if I am in a noisy room. So it's like a way of— you sort of step inside your own safe place. So you can be in a very crowded conference, for instance, and it's very noisy, but you can still keep your own peace. So I'm still working on that.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 36:57
Yeah, it sounds like mindfulness, what you say. It's a practice. It's not a set and forget. You need to consistently practice to feel this way.
Serena Low (Guest) · 37:05
Yes, it doesn't come naturally. You do need to practice. The more you practice, the easier it gets, because then you can access it when you need it, which is most important.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 37:14
Do you do this every day, or?
Serena Low (Guest) · 37:17
I would love to say I do it every day, but I do it when I remember to.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 37:21
Or when you feel the need. Yeah. Yeah. Is there one thing about the topic of introversion or the topic of migration that we haven't talked about that you think would be very important to talk about?
Serena Low (Guest) · 37:37
I think when people put introvert and migration and migrant together, it's almost as though they are two negative words together, and it's something we need to brace for, as though it's something we don't look forward to, something that's going to be a big challenge. But I would say if we can reframe the way we look at introversion, if we can reframe the migration journey and see it as simply The migration part being moving on from here to there, to the next season of life, the next chapter in your story. And in the introversion part, that's the essence of who a person is. It's that part of you that doesn't change. And it's something that the more you appreciate it, the more it grows. The more you give love to it and be grateful for it, the more it comes out in very healthy, very flourishing, very radiant ways. So then it's no longer, "Ooh, I'm an introvert." It's something to be conscious of or ashamed of. It's actually more like, "I'm an introvert and I also do all these other things." They could be exciting things, they could be very creative things, they could be things nobody ever thought of doing, very innovative things.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 38:51
So it's "and," it's not "but." Hmm, I really love what you said. I really love what you said. It's, I guess, the perfect words to end the episode. For people who want to follow you, your work, everything that you are doing, where can they find you and contact you?
Serena Low (Guest) · 39:09
So the two places I hang out most on would be my podcast, The Quiet Warrior Podcast, and the other one would be LinkedIn, where I'm very active.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 39:18
Great. Well, thank you so much, Serena, for sharing this perspective that I have not yet explored. Uh, I found it very fascinating to understand what is the added difficulty, but also the added beauty in being both an introverted person and a migrant, and how we can navigate a new culture while being introverted. And I think that your perspective has been really insightful. Uh, it made me reflect on my journey because I'm actually quite ambivalent about my introversion, but I think that deep down I am actually an introvert. It helps me understand things that I have been going through, but I never really put into words. So yeah, thank you for sharing your perspective. I found it very insightful.
Serena Low (Guest) · 40:09
Oh, I'm so glad. Thank you for inviting me here.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 40:13
Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to this episode. If Serena's journey resonated with you, share this episode with a friend, leave us a review, or show us some love in the rating. And don't forget to follow the show. It really, really helps this community grow. Next week, I will be interviewing Mish Kumar Johnson, a South Indian immigrant who's also a psychotherapist, among many other things. They have fascinating insights into code-switching, empathy limitations, the pressure to be grateful, and the complexities of belonging as a migrant. So stay tuned. I was your host, Emma Belamy, and I cannot wait to bring you on another journey from there to here.
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