Niharika Hiremath · 53 min
A South Indian-Australian mental health professional draws on her own lived experience as a third culture kid to argue that identity and mental well-being are inseparable, and that Australia's services must catch up.
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Niharika Hiremath spent her first seven years in South India with her grandparents while her parents worked in another city. When her father decided the family needed to be together, they moved to New Zealand and then Australia, seeking the chance to watch their daughter grow up. What followed was a childhood spent navigating two worlds at once: the Indian cultural roots her parents worked hard to preserve, and the distinctly Australian life she was building around her. She learned early that emotions were not openly discussed at home, even as her Australian friends talked freely about their feelings with their parents. By her teenage years, she had begun speaking publicly about her own mental health struggles, a decision her parents questioned. How could something so personal need to be shared?
Today, Niharika works as a mental health professional specialising in multicultural communities. She has come to see that identity and mental wellbeing are inseparable. Being the oldest daughter, being a woman in a traditionally patriarchal culture, being a migrant caught between two worlds, being Australian, these identities do not sit separately inside a person. They talk to each other, shape each other, and directly affect how someone experiences and navigates mental health. She has also seen how many mental health services in Australia, despite good intentions, actively exclude the communities that need them most. A service offered in only one language makes an assumption about who belongs there. It becomes easier to blame migrant communities for not seeking help than to ask whether the services themselves are built to welcome them.
Niharika brings a framework called intentional peer support into her work: relationships built on hope and connection rather than the expert fixing the broken client. She speaks directly to migrants struggling with mental health, offering a simple truth: you are not alone, and support exists in many forms, through language, through art, through dance, through people who have walked similar paths.
“being too Indian to be fully Australian or being too Australian to be fully Indian and you know sort of having to navigate that I think as a child was really interesting”
“the need in those communities is higher than the need in non-migrant communities for example and it doesn't quite match up right”
“recognizing that however alone you feel in whatever it is that you're experiencing, know that you're not alone”
The hero, today
The conflict between a family culture that doesn't openly discuss emotions and an Australian culture that does is not something a child resolves neatly; it requires constantly choosing which part of yourself to show up with in different spaces. Mental health services that serve only one language or follow only Western models actively exclude the communities that most need support, and then blame those communities for not seeking help. Cultural humility is not something you achieve once by ticking boxes; it is ongoing work that requires you to keep asking yourself how your own background shapes what you do, month after month, year after year. If you are a practitioner, the most important thing you can do is listen deeply to how this specific person actually experiences their own culture, rather than assuming they fit what you read online about their background. For migrants struggling with mental health, knowing that your experience is common and that support exists in many forms, including through art, dance, and music, can be the first step toward reaching out for help.
Yes. Niharika Hiremath is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
The conflict between a family culture that doesn't openly discuss emotions and an Australian culture that does is not something a child resolves neatly; it requires constantly choosing which part of yourself to show up with in different spaces.
Mental health services that serve only one language or follow only Western models actively exclude the communities that most need support, and then blame those communities for not seeking help.
Cultural humility is not something you achieve once by ticking boxes; it is ongoing work that requires you to keep asking yourself how your own background shapes what you do, month after month, year after year.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 00:14
Hello and welcome to the podcast From There to Here, a podcast I've created in collaboration with Kintsugi Heroes. I'm your host, Emma Bellamy, and each week we will dive into conversations with people who get what it takes to rebuild a home Home Away from Home. Today my guest is Niarica Aiyermath. Niarica is an Australia-based immigrant and mental health professional. In this episode, Niarica shares with us what it's like to be a third culture kid, the challenges of navigating multiple identities, and the way she approached mental health struggles. She also shares her professional insights into intentional peer support and underscores the need for inclusive and culturally responsive mental health services in Australia. This episode is filled with interesting perspectives and advice for both mental health professionals and individuals from multicultural backgrounds. Okay, let's jump right in. Welcome to the podcast From There to Here. I'm really, really thrilled to have you as a guest for this episode.
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 01:37
Thank you so much. It's lovely to be here.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 01:40
Yay. This episode is going to be a bit special because you are a first-generation immigrant and a mental health professional who specializes in helping multicultural communities. We are going to get insights into your personal lived experience as an Australia-based immigrant and your professional insights as a practitioner. But let's start with the personal. I know that you were only 7 years old when you left the south of India with your parents, but do you recall what your life was like over there?
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 02:16
Yeah, I guess so. I mean, I lived majority of those first 7 years, I was living with my grandparents. In India, so my parents used to actually work in a different city. And so majority of my time was spent with my, my grandparents in Hospet, which is in South India. It seems like a very long time ago, but I have very faint memories, but there are certain things that stand out from that time. The food we used to eat, my grandmother often walking to my school, which was walking distance to bring me food, which was really lovely. And my grandfather coming back from work and the things that he would bring me. There's a few memories that stand out.
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If you are a practitioner, the most important thing you can do is listen deeply to how this specific person actually experiences their own culture, rather than assuming they fit what you read online about their background.
This conversation includes growing up between grandparents in hospet, the decision to leave, being a third culture kid, talking about feelings wasn't modeled at home, parents struggle with her openness about mental health and identity and mental health are woven together.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 02:53
Mm. And so then you left with your parents to New Zealand and Australia. How, how was it like for you to transition from the south of India to New Zealand and Australia? Do you remember?
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 03:08
Yeah, there's again a few things that sort of stand out. I guess for me, just to give you some context, my father got to the point where he was like, we have a 7-year-old daughter, we're not getting to watch her grow up and develop as a human being and be there with her. So in terms of sort of seeking, I guess, a new life and an improved life for, for myself, but also for themselves, that was kind of what I guess motivated us to leave. In terms of that transition, like it's really what you would expect, you know, there was some parts of it that were great. You go to a new place. We, um, all three of us really enjoyed being outside in New Zealand. We would often go on road trips and spend as much time in nature as we could. But at the same time, the difficulties of making that trip and that transition in terms of leaving behind a community and ways of living that, you know, language, culture, food, all of the things you miss, I guess, when you leave your home country. So there was definitely a mixture of things.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 04:07
Mm-hmm. Do you remember how your parents felt about it? Because it's one thing, I think, to live as a child, but I think as an adult with a kid, it must be particularly challenging.
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 04:19
Yeah, I mean, I think they were sort of doing the best that they could and making the most of the situation and trying to be positive. I think that being said, being from such close families and feeling very close to their families as well was definitely a difficult experience. I think in some ways they tried very hard not to let me see that all the time, but yeah, it definitely was not easy for them.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 04:46
Well, they were good parents if they didn't let you see that too much, I guess. And so you grew up in Australia. I wonder how it was like for you to grow up and be so immersed in a culture that was so different to that of your parents.
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 05:02
Yeah, I can, I can definitely speak on that. I don't know if you've heard of the term third culture. Kid, but that's something that really strongly resonates with me, not just in the context of being born in one country, having spent most of my childhood in another, but also in the context of having moved from India to New Zealand and then New Zealand to here and the different ways in which communities connect and live. You know, for myself, like I found that my parents tried really hard to stay connected to culture, especially when I was young, whether that was through sort of local community connections and families or friends that we knew that spoke the same language or were from the same parts of India, whether that was through music. I've been singing since I can remember really, and was learning classical music really young, Indian classical music. Things that are connected to music or movies or things from India in that way. There were certain parts of my personality and my life that were very steeped in the Indian way of living. And of course that's alongside living in a completely new country. It's a new language, you know, little things like how families function, how openly you talk about certain things or you don't, getting invested in footie culture and picking a team to go for, like all of these things and always sort of finding this weird dichotomy and internal back and forth of like being too Indian to be fully Australian or being too Australian to be fully Indian and, you know, sort of having to navigate that, I think as a child was really interesting.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 06:36
I wonder whether you had aspects of your identity that conflicted with one another and how you resolved those conflicts.
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 06:44
Yeah, I mean, it's a really good question. I always say hindsight is 20/20, right? Like you can only really sort of make sense of or process those things after the fact. It's sometimes really hard and especially when you're a kid. I guess for me, Things like talking openly about emotions. It was not really something that was modeled to me. It was not a very prominent thing, both in family structures or broader community. As a South Indian woman, the difficult things were sort of swept under the rug. We don't talk about that stuff and we kind of try and move forward and keep, you know, keep strong. And there's a lot of reasons for that, right? Like especially being new migrants in a new place and trying to sort of find your place and keep a roof over your head, like often there wasn't an opportunity or a place or a time to be able to even talk about difficult things. So it made sense to operate in that way. But then having that mindset at home and then going to school and then hearing your friends talk about how, like, their parents ask them how they're feeling and if they need anything in terms of emotional support, feeling this weird sense of that I, it's not really something I can relate to. So definitely, definitely things I think that were of conflict, but in terms of the resolving piece, I mean, it's, it's interesting. I think there were some situations where I would try and take that back, might go to my parents and try and initiate a conversation. Other times there was almost a necessity to try and pick one or the other and make peace with the fact that that's the decision that I was making or the path that I was going down. I don't think it was an exact science for sure.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 08:20
I imagine it wasn't. I know that when you were a teenager, you shared openly your mental health struggles, and this is something that I understand was not necessarily encouraged in your family. So how did your parents feel about you being open about that?
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 08:38
It's a big question. I would be lying to you if I said that it was all smooth sailing. It wasn't. I think there was a sense of Is this really something that people need to know about? Um, is this something that we need to talk openly about? Do we really need to talk about the details of this stuff? And, you know, now there's so much more rich literature that really speaks quite directly, speaks to sort of the power of sharing people's stories and being able to be open about this type of stuff, especially in the context of that being a step to seeking help. But at the time it was not such a common occurrence. It was not something that was very widely encouraged. And so, as you can imagine, like stepping out there and putting my story out there, it was not very easily accepted in a lot of ways. So yeah, I think they've definitely kind of come around to it over time, but it has taken some time to settle into that place and understand the reasoning behind that. It's not a case of trying to fault them or or the communities that we come from or call into question whether they did a good job or anything like that, right? Like ultimately it comes down to how do you make your story known in a way that someone else can listen and say, actually, that's been my experience too. And if you have the capacity to be able to not only talk about this stuff, but also go and get help for it, then maybe that's something that I can do as well.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 10:05
Yeah. What comes to my mind when you're saying this is how brave you've been to say that you were struggling with mental health when it was not encouraged around you.
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 10:15
There was a purpose for why I was sharing those stories at that time. I guess one of the scary things about that is that at the time that you're sharing it, maybe you're doing a speech for a particular service that's being launched, or maybe you're on a podcast or a video. There's different reasons for why you do this, but you don't always see the direct impacts. I think part of it is sort of trusting in yourself that you are coming from a place of wanting to be authentic about your story and yourself and your history and hoping that resonates with people in some way.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 10:48
And something I'm interested to have your view on is the relationship between identity and mental health. And I wonder whether your sense of identity or the way you perceived your identity was affecting, or perhaps intertwined with your mental health. As a teenager and yeah, if you can talk a bit more about that.
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 11:08
Yeah, this is a really big— identity as a concept has been quite a big part of my story from the very beginning. That's both in the context of sort of your traditional notions of identity. What cultural background or ethnic background do you come from? How old are you? What's your socioeconomic status? How does that impact the way that you sort of live your life? But also some of the more nuanced ways of looking at identity. I'm the oldest daughter in my home, and that's meant some things in terms of how I show up at home, what some of the expectations are of me in my family structure, in the broader community structure as well. Being a girl is another one, being a female person in quite a traditionally patriarchal society, and what does that mean in terms of identity things? I think in a lot of ways there's so many tensions around these different notions of identity that have probably impacted my mental health and the ways that I've had to navigate a lot of that. I mean, if we're talking about being the oldest daughter as well, and some of the expectations that were put on me in terms of being able to hold space for family, the kind of impacts that that had for my own mental wellbeing and sometimes quite negative impacts and having to sort of work through this thing of, okay, just because I am the oldest daughter, that doesn't necessarily mean that I automatically have to hold those things. And especially not if I don't have the capacity to do that, or if I need to be held myself. I think there's, there's different elements of it, but really a lot of it for me, if we're really trying to sort of summarize it in relation to that relationship between mental health and identity, is really how can you show up in the most full and authentic way? And have your whole identity be recognized and seen by the people that it matters to you the most. So your family, your friends, your partner, your broader society, depending on what your context is. I think a lot of my work has really been trying to move towards building spaces, for example, that allow full authentic identity to be seen, being able to influence services or programs that let you bring your whole self and your whole identity to the conversation, that you bring your whole self to the service or the, the program that's providing some type of support for you. It's a big relationship between the two.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 13:31
It's amazing the way you talk about it. I love it. And it's very rare that you encounter a person that has multiple parts of their identity so aware, you know, that you really conceptualized, you really thought about all of these parts and how they interplayed with mental health. It's like you had all of these variables and you are thinking about how to show up in the world depending on the context. I really like your take on it. So just to be clear, that's an intersectional lens, is it?
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 14:00
Absolutely. And I mean, I would almost go like as far as to say there's one element of it that's sort of, you know, you're all of these different factors that make up your identity, but I think the false sort of assumption there is that they're all separate to each other. And so one, I guess, important thing to consider and, and something that the notion of intersectionality brings in is how are these things related to each other? How do they impact each other? How does me being a woman or a girl or a female impact on my role as a daughter? How does me being someone who's actually had a quite a bit of privilege in her life— both of my parents were sort of university-level educated, for majority of their lives have been in fairly stable jobs. I've not sort of had to, for example, navigate issues with housing and things like that. So, you know, socioeconomic-wise, like I've been fairly privileged. And then the intersection of that with being from a culturally diverse background where there's certain rooms that I show up in where people will look at me differently or speak to me in a different way. And the tension of that, of you know, almost having the audacity to be able to show up in those spaces and sit at those tables, but also recognize that there are some parts of my identity that aren't going to be seen or recognized or acknowledged in the best circumstance, or if they are, then negatively regarded in the worst circumstance. The notion of intersectionality, I think the important thing for me is how do those intersecting identities speak to each other? It's not just you have 10 different buckets and you have 10 different labels for each bucket, but how do, how are they actually talking to each other as well?
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 15:42
Yeah, it's this notion of a relative privilege that you shared with me when we first met. It's all about how people perceive your identity because being a migrant may be positive in a context, but it may make you be discriminated against in another. So one thing that can be a privilege or strength can also be a weakness and something that cause you to be devalued in another.
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 16:06
Absolutely. And I think thinking about these things in the context of mental wellbeing as well, or something as simple as accessing a service, maybe there's a service or a program that started up in your local community that looks to support your mental wellbeing. Now, if they offer services in one language, and that's often the norm in Australia or in most Western countries, what sort of assumption is it making about the the identities of the people that are walking through the door, you know, because from one end, that may not be something that they consider at all. But from another end, like, are you actively excluding certain communities or people who require that support and oftentimes disproportionately require that support? So many organizations will often see clients or consumers that aren't very diverse, and yet the need in those communities is higher than the need in non-migrant communities, for example. And it doesn't quite match up, right? Because you would think that if that need is so high, then you would see that representation within the services. There's this assumption placed on, well, people aren't seeking out support, it's their fault. Maybe the service itself is not conducive to someone walking through the door and being fully seen and held and acknowledged. What role do they have to play in that too?
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 17:24
Definitely. I'm trying to think from the perspective of a professional here. It is also probably difficult to make sure that you are inclusive and culturally responsive because it also depends on the way you're trained. Let's try to make it very concrete. Imagine I'm a professional and I just opened my practice and I really want to provide my services to a multicultural clientele. What do you think are the key actions I should prioritize to make sure that my practice is inclusive and culturally responsive?
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 17:59
I get asked this question all the time, and I often will go down the path of quoting certain frameworks or ways of thinking and trying to sort of quantify it a little bit. I have more recently really been thinking about things like the concept of cultural humility, pulling it back and thinking more broadly about, okay, so yes, we have all of these different frameworks. You have all of these different ways of classifying this information, but if you're getting to the essence of it, a lot of it comes down to how are you building a space for self-awareness in that work? There's often this notion of cultural competency. It, it almost sort of has this notion of, okay, so there's like a set of boxes or this table and If you can do all the things in this table, that means that you are competent. So you get a tick or you sort of have classified that that's done. And there's a few issues with that. I think one of them being that there's an assumption of it's a point in time. If you can meet all these requirements in this table, that means that you are competent. Now you can put a badge on your chest and you can go and do your work and no one is going to be able to question anything that you do. I think the reality. Of this work is that it's changing all the time. It's moving all the time. The assumptions, the environment, how you show up, all of these things are constantly shifting and changing and moving. Part of it is sort of extending yourself the grace and the work, the grace to say, actually, if it's the case that these things are shifting all the time, what mechanisms do I need to build in to be able to actually sit with that and make peace with that. It might be once a month, I'm gonna table some time to sit down and look at my own personal practice or my own personal cultural makeup and how that will factor into the work. Maybe it's about seeking out particular resources or books or videos. There are so many resources now, not just in the context of research papers and things like that, but so many organizations that are doing really wonderful sort of trainings and workshops in an ongoing way, not sort of a come to this workshop. Once you come here, yep, we're gonna tick the cultural humility box and then we're done. But really starting a conversation and being open to an ongoing conversation about it with the recognition that actually this is not one and done work. It is something that requires reiteration and movement and making peace with that sense of How do you continue to develop that self-awareness over time?
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 20:30
I love that. I have a question that is perhaps a bit naive, but if I'm a professional and I have a client that comes to me for help and that person is from a background I know very little about, would you, as a professional, just try to educate yourself as much as you can on the culture, what to do, what not to do with them, the way they greet? Yeah, would you try to do that as a first step?
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 20:55
I would to a certain extent, yes. But I think really recognizing that that's only half the picture. If I was to talk to, for example, my own experience as a third culture kid, right? So on paper, I'm a person of Indian origin. I was born in India. I now live in Australia. If those are the two things that you had about me and you were to try and educate yourself about what that would mean in terms of how I was gonna show up to the conversation, what my background or my history is, how I might feel about talking about certain things. That's, it's gonna be really difficult for you to find that information, right? And so recognizing that yes, some element of it is being somewhat sensitive to the historical context or background this person is bringing, but at the same time, going into it with an open mind and listening deeply to what that person has to say, because you might find that the things that you find, for example, online or in particular resources about that person's culture may not actually align with the ways that they've been brought up or they've had to navigate their experiences. And as soon as you put yourself in a position where you are trying to define them based on something that they haven't said, you're immediately taking that agency away. And rather than break down those walls between you, it puts more up. People often sort of get confused cuz then it's sort of like, okay, well if that's a mindset that I should be taking in, then I don't need to do any work, do any preparation, and I can just kind of go in and listen to what they have to say. I think it's a fine line and I think part of it is there's broader cultural responsiveness work or preparation that you can do that may not necessarily be very specific to a person's cultural background, but it might be something along the lines of, okay, if you're working in a particular service setting or a particular program, things like physical contact, right? So a lot of the time, and especially in sort of mental health professional settings, there's this thing of no contact ever. It's not allowed. Now, if you are working in a community-based program with a particular community for whom sort of that physical contact is important. So whether that's a handshake, whether that's a hug or something to that effect, one part of it is being educated about the fact that there's differences in the way that physical contact is perceived. And then the second part of that is in conversation with that person, in establishing mutuality with that person or that community, specifically that individual that you're working with, like, where do they stand? How do they see this stuff? Right? Because if you're doing it from that traditional, like, educate yourself lens, it might be Well, all people from this background, they don't like physical contact. Whereas this person might have some inkling towards, actually, I'm gonna feel more comfortable if you were to shake my hand before we sit down, or whatever it is. That's a very simple example, but the idea being that how are you building space and openness in that conversation for someone to bring their authentic selves, which may not necessarily align with what what their cultural background says about them, what their queerness says about them, what their age says about them, and really kind of placing the focus on them and their experience as opposed to your assumption of their experience.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 24:14
I love that. So one part is about educating yourself about the culture. The other part is not making any assumptions of how they perceive their culture. The third part is about having a conversation. I wonder, are you direct about it? As example, in the case of the touching, would you say, oh, I know in your culture that touching is an acceptable way of greeting a person, but how do you feel about that? Are you that direct, or do you take an indirect line of questioning?
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 24:47
I'm gonna be very diplomatic in my answer. It depends, right? It really depends. There are some people, and it's Part of it is being able to be as fully present as you can so that you get an idea of the, the ways in which it best works to communicate with this person, right? Because people will often tell you, even without telling you explicitly, the way that they want to be communicated with. So it might be that you might pick up on them being quite direct about what it is that they need, and that gives you a little bit of an inclination of, okay, maybe I can also put put myself fully on the table. For me, I'm quite relational and diplomatic in a lot of the ways that I communicate and I do this work. It's more important for me to build a relationship of trust from which then these questions might then be asked or not asked. I also think that there's like certain ways. So the example that you just talked about, right? It may not be that I speak about a specific example because I don't, I wouldn't want to allude to the fact that I think this relates to you. Not put people in that position. It's almost saying, okay, like I more broadly, I might know that there's different approaches that people take and I wanna make sure that the way that I'm holding space for you is in the way that works best for you. So is there things that I could be doing or saying that are going to help with that? So it, it might be that you take a softer approach or you take a broader approach in terms of how you communicate that. But I think The one point that I would drive home in all of this is that it is very individual and it's very personalized in terms of how you do that work. And I think so much of the time this work has been reduced to this notion of like, these are the things that you need to be doing, or these are the things that you don't need to be doing, that you often can take away that human element of actually this person in front of you, regardless of what they are on paper. All of these different factors, these different buckets or labels that they might fit under, the way that they're going to show up in conversation with you and for the purpose that you want them to. So if it's, I want you to be able to trust me so you can open up and I can support you, if that's why you're here, like if that's the purpose, then for me it's all of those things. You could have that whole piece of paper, but also if you didn't have it, you'd still be fine because the idea is that you're trying to be with that person in that moment and be present and make them feel that they can be their full selves with you, you know.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 27:20
Something else as well that cultural humility is really, I think, encapsulating is when you are a practitioner trying to act from a place of knowing that you don't know everything. I wonder what are your thoughts on this quite horizontal way of seeing relationships in the mental health space, but like from person to person or being kind of equals in the room rather than an expert that does therapy onto you. So yeah, what is your thoughts about that?
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 27:49
I think ultimately it comes down to what's the purpose for what you are doing, right? One of the ways that I like to see it and one of the earlier analogies that I would often talk about is what's the difference between physical health and mental health? With physical health, for example, it's a lot clearer and easier to see what's wrong and what the problem is. And that problem is usually easier to fix because there is like 1 to maybe 5 ways that you might be able to fix it. And there's a reasonable assumption that doing any one of those 5 things will fix the problem. So you break your leg, there's a pretty clear-cut avenue that most people take regardless of cultural background, regardless of socioeconomic status, regardless of whatever, X, Y, and Z different factors to fix that problem. With mental health and mental wellbeing, it's not as easy as that. It's not as clear-cut. And we're finding more and more that actually the pathologizing of these things and making it out to be that there is a problem that needs to be fixed often actually works against what you're actually trying to do with that person. If the idea is that you're trying to make yourself comfortable with your identity in that space, then seeking help for that is going to look vastly different from person to person already, you know? And the same thing that resonates with me and gives me perspective and changes my whole outlook on how I navigate this work might be completely different to you, even if we are the same cultural background, the same age, the same blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So really thinking critically about how you would want to approach this work, yeah, is going to be important.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 29:32
So you are trained in providing intentional peer support, right? And I read that it invites practitioners to think of relationships differently, but do you mind explaining a little bit more about what the framework involves?
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 29:48
Yes, absolutely. For me, IPS, there's a few aspects to it. One of them is really focused on creating and co-creating hope-based relationships. As we were just talking about in the previous question, moving away from this notion of there is something wrong with you and that needs to be fixed, or there's something wrong with me and that needs to be fixed. Addressing the natural power dynamics that come in, in relationships or in contexts like that. There's a big focus on a couple of different tasks, for example. So one of them is around connection and really establishing that connection early on. So Recognizing that any quote unquote good, productive therapeutic relationship is based in connection with that person. And if there is a disconnection, then nothing is really gonna work. Looking at the concept of worldviews, we talk about how everything that I was just saying, right? I have a certain way that I view certain things, and you might have a completely different way of how you view those things. And how do you acknowledge that in conversation? How do you work with that and move through those relationships in a way that holds space for other people's worldviews. The concept of mutuality as well, which is a huge, huge thing. So the idea that even in peer relationships or even in those relationships that you were talking about before, I may bring a particular specialization in a particular area. I may bring a set of skills. I might bring some particular knowledge about those things. But the idea is that when we are in conversation and when we are having that connection and that relationship, that's a set of skills that I bring, but that doesn't make me any better than you, any higher or lower than you. There's naturally power dynamics that you do have to address, but the idea being that in that relationship, the focus is not those dynamics. The focus is the connection piece. And just in the way that I might have things that I can bring to the conversation, you will have things that you can bring to the the conversation and how do we exercise that mutuality and how do we embed that in the foundation of the relationship that we're building, you know? So there's a, a lot of different sort of concepts to it, but ultimately, you know, it kind of comes down to this notion of how do you start to sort of move away from the, the concept of helping to sort of learning together? How do you move away from the individual by themselves to being in relationship or in relationship with other people, and how do you move away from that fear to more of a focus on hope and possibility and the ways in which you can move forward? Yeah, very high-level overview of IPS, but yeah, no, it really sounds fascinating.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 32:26
I really wish that was taught in psychology programs.
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 32:31
Oh, I, yeah, look, I have many, many things to say on that. I think it could really be a game changer. For many mental health disciplines, to be honest. The assumption is not a vilifying of psychology or of social work or of psychiatry or any other sort of discipline. Like the idea is not everything is bad and this is only the only way to do it. More of the focus here is on that sort of relational navigation of this work and how can you build a space to talk about the tensions between these are certain concepts that we learn in psychology. And these are some of the things that might come up within an IPS framework and just building a space to even speak to those tensions, you know, which often get brushed under the rug sometimes.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 33:16
There is so much that you've done professionally that it's really difficult to cover everything, but if you could encapsulate the main theme that underlies your purpose into a sentence. What would that sentence be?
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 33:32
Looking back, having had to navigate various educational professional settings, a lot of it really comes down to, I guess, intersectionality and sort of the overlap of that with lived experience work. I often say that regardless of the formal training that I've had in the mental health space, and I was working as a clinician for a couple of years and found that even in that time, I would often reference and come back to my own lived experience and what they call lived expertise. You've got your individual experience, but then you have this connection to the broader lived experience movement and the recognition of this work that's been done by so many people before you to build a place for people who've experienced those things to speak on that and to give input into the direct changing of services and programs and systems and structures. And I think for me, it's really that recognition of the lived experience thread has been something that's kind of been there from the beginning. A lot of my early professional work came from that. I was doing a lot of work in the social impact and entrepreneurship space, and a lot of my focus was on sort of addressing a lot of the gaps that I myself had experienced in terms of not having mental health services that were appropriate for my community or in my language or for people from my background. And that's something that's kind of carried through regardless of the roles that I've held as a clinician, a board member on different sort of organizations that designated lived experience, either peer worker or, or, you know, in sort of more leadership roles now as well. That notion of how am I using my own experience and how am I also holding space for others to use their experience in a way that can really fundamentally change the system, whether that's broader systems or structural change. That wasn't one sentence, but I tried, but I tried.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 35:31
Yeah. So if you were trying to sum up how identity and mental health, why they are so connected and why it's so important to see mental health through an intersectional lens, why would you say that is?
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 35:45
I think in summary, maybe it's really around the purpose. If the purpose of why you are doing what you're doing as a professional is to support someone's mental health, supports mental wellbeing, knowing and understanding that their intersecting identities are an inherent part of who they are, the makeup of the human that they are, being able to view this work through those lenses is only going to help you better help them, you know, and better support them. If the idea is that as a professional you have a job to do, it just makes logical sense to address their intersecting identities because it's such an integral part of what makes a person up, right? It's such an integral part of what not only navigates their day-to-day, but how they're going to then navigate mental illness, how they're going to navigate service systems. How do you really place the focus on someone's experience? Or why should you place a focus on someone's experience? Well, without doing that, you're not going to be able to help them in the way that you want to help them or support them or be with them in that space and sit with them in that space. So I think just the recognition of the fundamental connection of someone's personal identity and how that then shows up in their own mental wellbeing. There's so many different examples that I could give you, right? But ultimately it just comes down to even looking at how it would be for yourself. Like you think about why there's times where you feel better talking to a friend about something that has been really rough to navigate. Why watching certain things or reading certain things makes you feel emotional things inside in relation to your own history or your background. There's such an intrinsic link between those two things. And so it's in your best interest to view someone's mental wellbeing through those intersecting identities because it's such an inherent part of who they are as a person.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 37:48
As well, there is an intrinsic value in seeing what is the part of them that is linked to the issue that they are experiencing or the thing that they find difficult. Yeah, because sometimes you react to things and it's just one part of you that may represent about 5%, but that's the part that gets triggered. So perhaps as a professional, if you identify the part that is linked with the issue at hand, you may be able to raise their awareness on that and explore a new area into their minds, I guess. Absolutely. If we were to give an advice to the migrant community, do you have a word of wisdom that you could give them and particularly to those who are struggling with mental health issues in Australia? What would be perhaps the advice you wish someone had told you when you were going through your darkest time?
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 38:43
I think recognizing that however alone feel in whatever it is that you're experiencing, know that you're not alone. And I don't mean to say everyone experiences this, so you shouldn't feel bad about it. What I do mean is it's such a common experience, especially in migrant communities. It's so hard to talk about this stuff because often you don't have the language to talk about it, but recognizing and knowing that what you're going through is not something that you have to go through alone. And it's not something that no one has gone through before, and there will be avenues of support or help that you can reach out to. There's so many resources out there now, and more and more of them are starting to become more accessible for our communities, whether that's through direct language translation, whether that's through different avenues of thinking or being. I did a really cool project a while ago that looked at connecting artists and musicians and other sort of creatives with mental health advocates to try and interpret their stories, you know. So I worked with a dancer, for example, who heard my story over a series of workshops and then put a song and music and dance together to represent that, with the idea being that maybe you haven't been taught the language to talk about this stuff, but the concepts of emotion and processing grief and having to navigate loss and like love and what that looks like. All of these things are so entrenched in so many of our cultures, but there, again, the sort of, there hasn't been that intrinsic link of, okay, you can talk about grief, you can talk about loss in different concepts and ways. And so basically what I'm getting at is like, there is resources and there is supports and there is a system or a structure out there. And there are people that are working to try and make those things more accessible as well. Don't be afraid to try and look for that help. Even something as simple as like Googling supports close by might help to kind of give you an idea of actually like, there are these local sort of services or programs that I can access, or there's maybe a phone line that you can call to talk to someone. Um, and, and that can be in your, your own language as well. And often it is with, with folks who can navigate those conversations in a way that don't put you in a spot or get you to share more than you want to, or things like that. So the idea being that there is things out there and you don't have to feel alone in that. You don't have to feel ashamed that you are having to navigate these things or face these things. Like, it's such a common occurrence, unfortunately. And that doesn't mean that there is possibilities for things to get better and for you to be able to to move through that and forward in the way that you want to.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 41:31
Yeah, I was thinking, do you think that there are keywords when I'm looking for help that may direct me towards professionals that would be better suited to deal with people who have had that migration experience? What should I very concretely tap on Google, you know, mental health professional, and then what?
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 41:53
Yes, it's a good, it's a good question. We actually ran an event last year around language in multicultural communities. So what's the difference, for example, between multicultural versus CALD, C-A-L-D, or culturally and linguistically diverse versus migrant or refugee or asylum seeker background? There's so many words floating out there, and I guess it would be very easy for me to say to you, if you put in mental health professional CALD, like C-A-L-D, that you're going to get stuff that's right for you. Unfortunately, it's not that simple just yet. Having an open mind a little bit about, okay, like it may not be that this first service that I access is perfect for me, but is there questions that I can ask or is there things that I can do in terms of trying to hone in on particular areas? Like you could try to Google CALD, you could try to Google Multicultural Mental Health Services. There's quite a great a national organization that sits under Mental Health Australia called Embrace, which specifically focuses on multicultural mental health and growing the awareness around that. So they've got a number of different resources, both for professionals who are working in the space, but also for consumers who are actually looking for service supports. There is an organization that I run that is a think tank for multicultural mental health advocates and professionals called SOLIS, and one of the services or one of the things that we provide is a toolkit of sort of culture and mental health. So the overlap of the two, so people can kind of look again, and that's more focused again on professionals working in this space. And there might be certain organizations or resources you might come across on that. What I would've found more useful when I was first navigating this space is the knowledge that whatever I do try to access, the first one may not help me.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 43:43
Me.
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 43:44
And that's not a reflection of how complex my case is or how important it is to get my needs addressed. It's not a judgment on me and my experience. It's just that service or that organization or that resource just wasn't right for me. The way that I would think about it is like different people like wearing different hats, right? And you know, just because you like to wear sort of caps that doesn't make you any better or any worse than me. And because I like to wear cowboy hats, I'm not any better or worse than you. We have different preferences and experiences and we're gonna want different things. And in a lot of ways, like these kinds of supports are a similar thing. Like you might find that there are certain organizations that don't do any culture-specific work, but just the way that they've edited their particular website or, or phrased a particular thing. That resonates with you. You read it and you think, oh, like, yeah, that's actually something that I've experienced and maybe these are people that can help me. So it's not even necessarily the case that only culturally responsive or culturally adept services are gonna help you. But I think part of it is just recognizing that it may just not be the right one for you. And that doesn't mean that you are bad, that you don't deserve to find the help that is right for you. Just might mean that it might take a little bit longer.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 45:05
I was also thinking that the journey to finding the right person, yeah, it's about the person really. And don't stay in a session where you feel that you don't connect with the practitioner in front of you, because that would be the worst, is that if you try to stick with it, but you don't have any connection.
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 45:21
Absolutely.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 45:23
So is there a book or a movie that has particularly inspired you that you would recommend to our audience?
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 45:31
I was thinking about this actually, and I feel like that there's a few of them, but the one that's kind of coming to mind, and I guess this is more so for people who are working in this space and specifically for sort of multicultural mental health advocates and professionals or migrant folks who are navigating any of these spaces. There's a really wonderful book called Healing Resistance by an author called Kazu Haga. It draws on a lot of the concepts from the work of Martin Luther King in terms of nonviolence. So really sort of focused on how to ensure that there's an assertiveness of nonviolent practice and sort of showing a principled approach to nonviolence in terms of how to develop relationships and systems in a way that's sustainable, not just for the broader system, but also for individuals themselves as well. It really kind of speaks to a lot of those tensions we were talking about in terms of identity, right? At the times where I would feel this internal conflict between, like, for example, being someone who is quote unquote, um, Australian in the concept of, okay, like I need to recognize that people have different ways of thinking and sometimes someone might say something or do something from their own conditioning that may not see me fully. Whereas there is a quote unquote migrant part of me that sometimes gets irrationally angry about that because it's like, why do I have to change who I am? Why do I have to change my accent or what I eat or the way that I look like or how I dress to be more accepted in this society? And there's a lot of elements of those types of tensions that this book really opened up for me and provided a space for me to kind of explore those in a way that didn't feel as heavy. As other things have. So that's probably one of the better ones that I've read.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 47:21
Is there a person in your network that you'd like to hear on the podcast?
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 47:26
I was actually thinking about this and the person that comes to mind is a wonderful friend and colleague of mine whose name is Mishma Kumar Johnson. Mishma, or Mish, is a, um, non-binary person who heads up an organization called the Iceberg Foundation. So they're focused on providing sort of support for the LGBTIQA+ and sort of neurodivergent communities. In terms of someone who really sort of puts their money where their mouth is type of thing, is so focused on ensuring that not only the services and the programs that they provide both as an individual, but also as an organization, are really steeped in the values and the value systems that they feel strongly about. But you can see that in the way that it plays out in their work. In terms of the Iceberg Foundation, for example, their whole board is quite intersectional and you often don't see that in a lot of the work that we do. In terms of the ways that they sort of show up within community settings, like there is this like inherent want to just, yeah, see someone's full identity. And I know we've talked about that a lot today, but I can't tell you enough how much I see that in the way that they work and the way that they navigate these spaces. And there are so many wonderful and incredible parts of their story that I like still consistently am surprised, but also so humbled and inspired to hear about every time we speak. And so to be able to hear from someone like that would be really, really cool.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 48:55
I would love to get in touch because I'm sure they would have a lot to say.
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 48:59
Yep.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 49:00
So I have a tradition on the podcast. I ask two questions. The first one is when I say the word migrant, what comes to your mind instinctively?
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 49:11
Mm. Intersectionality.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 49:15
Yeah. To stay on topic.
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 49:17
To stay on topic.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 49:19
Love it.
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 49:19
Yeah.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 49:21
And the other one is what does being Australian mean to you? And I know that this one is quite a difficult one to answer, but I'm curious to know what you're gonna be able to say.
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 49:33
Mm-hmm. What does being Australian mean to me? I guess for me personally, being Australian really means an opportunity to grow. But I think about, I mean, really kind of coming full circle to the first question that you asked me about in terms of moving here, it's been a place that I've been able to grow and live and breathe and do what I need to do. So that's, that's probably a, a good summary for myself.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 50:00
Yeah, I like that it comes back to the first question. Do you feel Australian or not? Because people who migrate to Australia have very diverging views on whether they feel Australian. Some people don't, some people do, some people feel from both their cultures, some people feel neither of them is home anymore. So yeah.
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 50:23
Yeah. It's funny that you say that. I think in my bio, I often describe myself as a South Indian Australian. So I think partly, yes. I think there's certain, certain parts of the quote unquote Australian culture that I do identify with. And there's certain parts that I very much don't identify with, you know, and part of it is also, it's, it's a very fluid thing, right? It changes. And I think will continue to change over the course of my life as well. There are some days and some times in my life where I feel more Indian than Australian and may not identify with that as much. But there's also times when I go back to India that I often feel very Australian, whether that's because of the context or the environment I'm in or the differences that that kind of provides. So it's a hard question to answer, I think, but a little bit, Maybe.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 51:15
Yeah, it's so context dependent and I can definitely relate when you say that when you come back to your country of origin, you sometimes feel Australian. I get that feeling sometimes when I go back to France. I feel like I'm not completely French anymore. There is like, I'm a weird French or like I have more Australian-ness than I think I do have.
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 51:36
Totally.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 51:37
And here in context, I feel very French because I guess I'm reminded of my difference. So it's funny how You see it in opposition to something else.
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 51:45
It's relative for sure. Yeah.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 51:48
So for those who would love to follow the work that you do, where would you like me to redirect them?
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 51:55
I have a LinkedIn page, um, and I also have a website. LinkedIn is probably the easiest way to reach me. Yeah.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 52:01
Yeah. Well, it was amazing to speak with you. You're very articulate on the way you think about your work. Like, I can really tell that you You've been thinking about this a lot. It's really a passion of yours, so it's just so enjoyable to be on the receiving end. So yeah, thank you so much for being here.
Niharika Hiremath (Guest) · 52:21
Of course. Of course. No, and thank you for the insightful questions as well. I often say it's very easy to answer questions, but to ask articulate questions as well is super, super important. So this is, yeah, it's been a real joy to be able to speak with you.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 52:34
Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to this episode. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Miarika and all the insights she has shared with us today. If you did, please like, follow, share, and rate the show. That would make a massive, massive difference to the podcast. Next week, I will be interviewing Khalil Bagat Singh, a professional who helps migrants get skilled-aligned jobs and who will be sharing tips for those who are looking to maximize their chances of getting the job of their dreams. I was your host, Emma Bellamy, and I cannot wait to bring you on another journey from there to here.
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