Trav Ledger · 57 min
A volunteer firefighter from Wangaratta recounts two brutal nights on the 2019-20 Black Summer fire grounds, saving strangers' homes with everything he had, and learning to forgive himself for the ones he couldn't.
Hear this story
Trav Ledger has been a volunteer firefighter with the Country Fire Authority for 13 years, based in a small rural brigade near Wangaratta in northeast Victoria. In that time, he'd fought plenty of small grass fires and local blazes, but nothing that tested him the way the Black Summer fires of 2019-20 would. On 30 December 2019, his strike team was called to Wowa, two hours north of their usual range. What started as a manageable fire moving down a hillside turned violent in minutes. Ember attack overwhelmed the crew, and they had to retreat fast. Hours later, they were diverted to the township of Kadjua, where houses were minutes from the fire front and resources were thin. Trav and his crew spent over an hour fighting to save their first house, jumping in and out of the truck as the fire intensified, sheltering behind the garage, putting out spot fires in the garden beds and a small toilet that kept catching fire. They believed they'd done everything they could. As they drove out at dawn, they saw the house had burned down after they left. It was the first house Trav had ever seen burn.
Days later, Trav agreed to lead his first strike team to Corryong, expecting a quiet shift. Instead, the fire turned toward the township and the iconic Towong racecourse. His crew protected the grandstand but lost more houses on the ridge. Back home, Trav moved through physical exhaustion into something harder: weeks of what-ifs and guilt. Through peer support debriefing and conversations with his crew, he came to understand that becoming emotionally invested in saving a house was natural, not a failure. He and his team had given their best. They could not do the impossible. What helped him most was talking about it, whether casual crew conversations or formal debriefs, letting the weight of it out rather than carrying it alone.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses grief & loss, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au • GriefLine: 1300 845 745 · griefline.org.au
“I've let it go; it was what it was like, you know, we're only a team and we can't do the impossible and we gave it our best and our best past in some ways and failed in others but it is what it is, you know, I feel the loss for those people but I know now that our crew did all they could and they were so invested like I said that they wouldn't have tried any harder if it was their own home.”
“If we expect people to help us if things go bad on a bad day then I should be prepared to help other people on their bad day.”
“She's like, I don't know what to do but I'm just not going to stop, and I said that's it, just don't stop, we need to keep this truck moving, if we stop we're in a world of trouble.”
The hero, today
Trav joined the CFA because he believed that if he expected others to help him on a bad day, he should be prepared to help them on theirs. Once Trav and his crew became emotionally invested in the task of saving a house, the loss hit them personally in a way that had nothing to do with whether it was their own home or someone else's. Trav's wife and two young children struggled greatly when he was deployed, especially the second time, and communication was nearly impossible once the firefight began. Trav learned through peer support debriefing that he could work through the what-ifs and frustration by accepting that his crew gave their best and could not do the impossible. Talking about what happened, whether in casual crew conversations or formal debriefs, was essential for Trav to process the experience and let go of the emotional buildup.
Yes. Trav Ledger is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Trav joined the CFA because he believed that if he expected others to help him on a bad day, he should be prepared to help them on theirs.
Once Trav and his crew became emotionally invested in the task of saving a house, the loss hit them personally in a way that had nothing to do with whether it was their own home or someone else's.
Trav's wife and two young children struggled greatly when he was deployed, especially the second time, and communication was nearly impossible once the firefight began.
Trav learned through peer support debriefing that he could work through the what-ifs and frustration by accepting that his crew gave their best and could not do the impossible.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 00:04
Welcome to the Kansuki Heroes Podcast special Alpine Bushfires series, where we share inspirational stories of everyday people from the Victorian Alpine region who went through the bushfires which occurred from late 2019 through to early 2020. These stories highlight the different challenges and events people went through and how they overcame them. Please be aware that the story you're about to hear may have moments of deeply felt emotions and personal experiences. If anything you hear has a triggering effect, please reach out to someone who can help you. If you love this conversation, please like and share it with your friends so we can continue to share more inspiration and hope to as many people as possible. Now listen up for our next hero's story.
Trav Ledger (Guest) · 00:57
In this episode, we hear from Trav Ledger. Trav's fast-paced story keeps us on the edge of our seats as he describes the progress of the 2019-20 fires in a couple of locations from the point of view of an experienced CFA volunteer from Wangaratta coming into the Alpine region to fight the catastrophic fires. One of many powerful moments he shares with us is that although he was inspired to join the CFA by the Black Saturday fires in 2009, He and his crew had not lost houses in the previous fires they had fought. The loss of many houses this time was devastating for them. Enjoy Avalon Clark's conversation with Trav Ledger.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 01:47
Hello, here we are. It is another special episode of Katsuki Heroes Alpine Bushfire Series, and my guest today is Trav Ledger. Trav, how are you doing?
Trav Ledger (Guest) · 01:58
Yeah, good, thank you. Nice to be here.
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This conversation includes a cfa volunteer from wangaratta, strike team 2323 gets the call, the smoke column and a death reported, the paddock near wowa turns savage, racing to kadjua as houses go up and fighting for a house in the driveway.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 02:02
Thank you, it's good to have you here. Really grateful, uh, anyone who turns up and, and wants to share their story, I'm really grateful for them. Um, whereabouts do you live?
Trav Ledger (Guest) · 02:12
So I live in Killawarra, which is just a small township, uh, just out of Wangaratta, so about 15k out towards Yarrawonga.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 02:22
Okay. So for people listening to this who have never been to that region of Victoria before, where's the dot on the map?
Trav Ledger (Guest) · 02:32
Yeah. So we'll take Wangaratta is on the Ovens River, not far from the Alpine Valley sort of area and out towards the flat plains towards Yarrawonga. So we're not too far from the Murray River or the Ovens River in northeast Vic.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 02:50
And that's close to the border of New South Wales, is that right?
Trav Ledger (Guest) · 02:53
Yeah, about, uh, 40 minutes to Albury-Wodonga from Wangaratta, so it's not too far away.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 02:58
Yeah, right. Okay, great. Thank you. It sounds lovely, and, um, I'm, I'm really grateful. Looking forward to hearing your story. So how about I hand the mic to you, Trav, and invite you to take us back and share with us your story about the your experience of the bushfires.
Trav Ledger (Guest) · 03:19
Yeah, no worries, thank you. I've been a volunteer member of the CFA, Country Fire Authority, in Victoria for around 13 years now. We're a small rural brigade. We do head into Wangaratta occasionally and do a little bit of work in there, but predominantly rural sort of area. Smallish grass fires, a few small bushfires. We're bound by the Warby Ovens National Park, so we get into a little bit of that sort of country, but not a great deal. Up until the 19-20 Black Summer fires, I'd held several positions in the brigade and attended, yeah, a fair few fires across the state, but I'd never been to anything that was really big and going. I'd sort of gone on strike teams following the fires after they'd been through and that sort of thing. So been in a few warm sort of fires, as we'd say, but nothing too over the top, nothing too crazy. Then I remember it fairly clearly. It was Monday the 30th of December, 2019. I was actually with a mate working on our ski boats, getting ready to go out skiing the following days. When we come off strike team roster. So for those that don't know, strike team, CFA strike team in its most basic form consists of 5 vehicles led by a leader vehicle. So in our case, that was 5 CFA tankers, which are your rural tankers that you generally see around, and then a Toyota Land Cruiser with the strike team leader, a radio operator, and a note taker or a log taker. So we're on strike team roster for the Wangaratta group for that week. We do week about. It was hot, it was windy. The fires had been going in New South for several weeks and a few local members had been up there. A few people I know fairly well had been up to New South. So we knew there was a bit going on and a bit happening. With our strike team and our roster, we're predominantly a rapid dispatch team, and generally we'd operate within sort of an hour of our home base being Wangaratta. So you're sort of ready to go within sort of probably half an hour, and generally you'll roll out to within that sort of 1-hour radius. Generally, this particular day, this Monday, as I said, we're working on the boats, and it was It was after lunch, can't remember the exact time, but the pager went off and it said strike team required. Our strike team was designated the number 2323 based in Region 23, that's how that comes about, to assemble in Wangaratta and head to Wowa. Had a quick thought and thought, Wowa's a couple of hours away, this is a bit out of our reach for a local strike team. Little bit unusual, this one. And it's not an area that we would typically go to, up to Wowa, but we knew the fires were up there. So yeah, okay, well, we do what we do. So as the next sort of hour unfolded, we started to assemble in Wang in our tankers and our teams. Killawarra, my brigade, I was the the most senior person on the truck. So I was the crew leader and we had a good crew for that day. We had one of our key lady members was the driver and she'd done a lot of driving over the years, but again, a bit like myself in nothing too crazy. But yeah, she was pretty well all over it. We had one member who was pretty new. He'd only been to a couple of very small fires, so He was, he was pretty keen to get up and have a run. And then the other couple of members were just similar sort of members to ourselves. So yeah, we headed, headed up. We head up in convoy, Code 1 as we call it, which was lights and sirens from Wang. And as I said, quite the drive. I distinctly remember crossing a, I don't know if it was a small creek or a river, a bit of a swimming hole in the other side of Wodonga. And, and it was hot, you know, it was really hot. And we looked down and here's 15, 20 people swimming in the river, having a ball. I remember thinking, that's, that's where we should be. Yeah. That's, that's a good place to be today, I'd reckon. So we continued up the road and as we do, we, we talk about a lot of things when there's 4 or 5 of you in a, in a tanker or in a crew cab tanker. So we're all in the front talking about it and heading up the road. As you draw closer, you start to talk about the event. And we could see, as we got quite close, we could see a smoke column. And that column, we learn a fair bit about the column. It can tell you a lot from what you can see about what's happening on the ground. And this column was very tall and it was a very distinct column as opposed to smoky there and everywhere. That's not a good sign. That's really not a good sign. It's, in the most basic terms, layman's terms, that column being so high, so straight, can collapse down and create really bad situations on the ground. So that's not ideal. Remember, we're looking at the column, we're talking about the column, teaching some of our less experienced members about that. And another fleeting thought, and someone made comment, was there's a hell of a lot of vehicles heading the other way, and that's probably the way you should be heading instead of driving into it. But we're there to do a job. And whilst this conversation and these remarks were happening, I got a message from my wife to say that there was a report that there'd been a firefighter killed. At the fire up this way. And as time went on and in the subsequent days, we found out that was Sam McPaul, just basically on the other side of the fire. But yes, similar thing to a column collapsing and caused some devastation over that side. So that's always, Tugs a bit deep when you hear that. And obviously it was very limited information, but then of course everyone at home starts to worry, you know, you, there's 25, 30 of you heading off in this strike team. It's been a reported death on the fire ground. So just that sense of dread, I think, and worry comes over those left at home. And a lot of us have got young children and partners and whatnot. So fairly challenging thoughts come through your head whilst you're doing that. And a lot of thoughts, a lot of quick thoughts. And, but you know, you're there to do a job and you're one of many and it's all about teamwork. So we continued on again, drawing closer to Wowa, and we then could start to see the actual fire and it was coming down down the hill and nothing too crazy by any means. It was just sort of meandering, making its way down the hill fairly slow, which fire can tend to come downhill a lot slower than going uphill. And we had to go past the fire and head into Walwari, get our briefing, last chance to have a quick bite to eat or a drink, get everything ready, prepare your team. So that was to be fairly quick and then head back out and knock this fire down. Whilst we're having a drink and getting our briefing, a couple of us talked about some tactics and that seemed to be that this isn't too bad. It's nothing crazy. It's sort of meandering down out of the hill. We'll wait for it to hit the flat between the hill and the road and we'll knock it down. You know, this is nothing too crazy. For us, there's plenty of us and the fire's just, yeah, making its way. So we head back out there and I remember along the sides of the road, a table drain. So to get into this particular paddock, you needed to go through the actual gate. So we all head in there and as we're heading in there, the fire's coming down out of the hills, just hitting the creek in the flatlands. And it's gotten a bit crazy really quick once we're in the paddock. And I think it very much got us all by surprise as to how quickly things changed. And we're in all the gear, we're in the big red trucks, we're pretty confident in ourselves. And I remember a couple of tankers spotted a hay shed and thought, well, we need to try and save a hay shed because it's full of hay. And these farmers, these people are going to need this hay. Like hay is a very valuable asset when you've got something like this going on. So in this paddock, thought, well, we need to save the hay shed and some other tankers can tackle the fire. Remember jumping out of the tanker and I had the wire cutters to cut the fence to get across to the hay shed and just getting bombed by ember attack, which is falling debris on fire. And that created spot fires everywhere all around us. So we certainly made a hasty, or I made a hasty retreat back in the truck, as did some others that were out cutting fences and trying to get the tankers through to this hay shed. And it was, we were all overcome by the fire very quickly around us and the smoke and things had certainly changed. And we knew then that things had changed big time. The fire was no longer that 9 wandering down from the hill. But, um, it was, it was angry. It really was. And, you know, whether the column had collapsed, I don't know. You couldn't see it at this stage, but certainly there was a change in, in the atmosphere and the change in the events. We, we were all back in the tanker at this stage driving around, and, and I remember our driver She did an enormous job given what we're encountering. And she's like, I don't know what to do, but I'm just not going to stop. And I said, that's it. Just don't stop. We need to keep this truck moving. If we stop, we're in a world of trouble. Keep the truck moving and just let's find some burnt ground, which was hard to do given it was spot fires that hadn't yet all met up. You know, the spot fires might've been the size of a house sort of thing. Like they were, they were decent-sized fires. And going back to trying to get into the paddock, we knew there was the table drains and there was only this, this particular gate to get out across the drain. So we're all in constant contact between our tankers and the strike team leader. And we, we made a hasty retreat. Oh, I don't mind saying we, we got out of there as quick as we could.. And, and it was a bit of a challenge to find that gate, but, but we did through teamwork and communication to each other and, and we managed to get out. So that was our, our first encounter. And yeah, we, we, we got it handed to us. It, it was, it was a bit of a wake-up call, a bit of a challenge. And it was not what we expected. And I don't think we went in complacent. We just went in with the knowledge we had and what we thought. But it came onto us fairly hard and fairly sternly. From there, we thought, wow, that was a big challenge. This is not to be messed with. And the fire then passed us and gone up to the next hill, which is where we'd really hoped to stop it from getting to that next hill. Again, it gets into the bush and you can't go in there. It's not safe to go in there and it's far too challenging to try and fight it. So then your next option is retreat to behind that hill and have another go. So that's what we did. Fire, the fire was very fast, very fast. And the hours are ticking on there. You gotta remember, we left Wangaratta well after lunch and a couple of hours drive and then and then this firefight. So, all of a sudden, a call come in for our strike team to head to Kadjua ASAP. So, Kadjua, the township, was under threat by this fire front and other fire fronts, and there was very, very few resources in Kadjua at the time. So, we did. We headed along the river road there to Kadjewa, and we're going fairly hard. And I remember it was interesting as far as the day in the paddock or a couple of hours earlier, it was so dark, the smoke was so thick and it was almost like dark. And then going along the river, we're now into the night, but the night's almost like daytime because there's so much fire front. Said, it's bright, you know, you can see everything. So the contrast was, was unbelievable. Day becomes night and night becomes day. And, and some of our crews, and I know many others got some unbelievable photos of, of some of this. So we headed into, into Kajua and we had to, I didn't know Kajua. I don't think any of us really knew Kajua too well. We'd heard of it. Know it's up that way, but had never really been in, didn't know what the township consisted of, I guess. So as we're making our way into Kadjua and we're in formation again, code 1, there's the fires coming across the paddock and there's houses, a row of houses onto the road. And those houses were going to be in a world of trouble in a matter of minutes. The fire was traveling really quick. So I remember the strike team leader who was a really experienced long-serving member, just said, "Teach tanker, grab a house and do what you can. Stay safe and do what needs to be done." We didn't know whether the houses had people in them, whether they'd left. We had no way of knowing. And the fire was that close that it had started to spot in the gardens around the house and whatnot. So I remember we, we pulled the tanker up into the driveway of a house and we were between a detached garage, fully enclosed garage, but about 3 meters from the house. And we were really starting to come under ember attack, but we just jumped out of the tanker and it was not too bad. And I remember jumping out. We went to the back of the tanker to grab some gear and start to put out these garden beds and whatnot. And again, we just got overwhelmed at that particular time and said to the crew, just get back in the truck. It's— we can't stay out here. We need to get back to the truck. We jumped back in the truck. I'm in the front passenger seat. The driver had remained in the tanker. And the rest of the crew were in the back. And I remember we jumped back in and the younger firefighter that had only been to a couple of fires wasn't in the truck. And I thought at that time, we're in a little bit of trouble here, but we've got to— I've got to get the crew. Like, we can't leave him. And we were fairly close on pushing the button on what we call a burnover, which is an entrapment where you, you know, there's potential for the vehicle to be burnt. So I said to the crew, stay here and I'll go and find our man. So jumped back out and went round to the back of the truck where we were, and he'd got shelter behind the garage. So grabbed him pretty quick and said, hey, come on, we're back in this truck. We need to get some shelter. We did that. We got back in the truck. And we had a quick chat and this is all playing out in seconds. It's, it's, we train hard. It's fairly instinctively. And there's just, this is what we train for. This is what we need to do. Let's make this happen. So we decided, right, we, we can handle this. Let's just get ourselves a little bit of a plan and do that. So we did, we got back out, we sought some shelter behind the garage and part of the house, and we got some gear out. And whilst the crew was doing this and starting to black out around the house and try and protect the house, I ran into the house just to check if there was any occupants in there, as I knew the other crew leaders were doing at the other houses. There's a fair bit of radio chatter that the houses all seem to be empty. Which, which was good. So we knew that after just doing a quick check. We, that went on for a while and, and the fires just kept impeding on the house. You know, you'd get one garden bed out, another garden bed would go up and mulches, mulches, hard work, mulch. It just wants to keep burning no matter how much water you put on it. You go back 10 minutes later and it'll be burning again. And, and the garage was, was empty. And I remember there was a little wooden, almost like a little outhouse toilet at the end of the garage on facing the direction the fire front was coming. And this bloody toilet just kept catching fire, this little humpy bit. We had to keep getting that out so as not to lose the garage. And, and it was just such a, such hard work. Anyway, we, we did, we got it all after, I don't know what seemed like hours and hours, but it may have been an hour and a half or so. We were fairly comfortable that, that, that property was done to the best we could. And there was the call obviously further up the road that more houses were going. So we got one, that one where we believed it was pretty right. And we headed up and did the same again. And the other 4 other tankers were doing the same and we'd been communicating and we'd have to go for water in the street and from the town supply and whatnot. So a lot of communication, a lot of teamwork. As the night went on, crews started to mix around a little bit and give each other a hand in the chop out. And I'd never, along with my crew, had never seen a house burn. So it's fairly confronting to witness that and to witness multiple houses burn is another thing. Seen a few sheds over the years, but to watch what is someone's house is quite overwhelming and the pain you have for that person or those people. So we continued on for the the majority of the night doing that. And then I think in the early hours of the morning, the front had passed again and it had kept going. We'd saved a few houses between the strike teams. There was another strike team, I think from Wodonga way, that we'd come across by this stage, and they were going through similar issues and challenges. As the sun rose and things had calmed down a little bit, I remember, and we've actually, someone got a photo of it, of our crew lying on the ground in front of the tanker and we were out to it. We were just sound asleep and it was probably only a 20-minute thing, but it ended up a great photo of, and just, we were just that exhausted on our feet that we laid down and slept how we were. We got up and then we needed to get a bus back to Angaratta. So we needed to meet up with the other crews and back to a staging ground. As we're driving out through Kajuwa, that house that we'd fought so hard, that initial one, was lost after we'd left. And that was gut-wrenching. The feel for that family and, and our crew, my crew, to know just the, the effort and the challenges that we went through. And we did our best to save that. And in the end, and with hindsight and looking back, it just was one of those things that it wasn't meant to be. But It certainly ripped at you. It really did. That, and I guess the sense of that we'd failed and we'd failed those people. The other, the other terrible thing you see was, was the animals. You know, a lot of animals are burnt, a lot survive, but you know, with horrific injuries. And then there's countless that don't survive. So I remember the animals was particularly heart-wrenching to see, see that side of it. But we, we all went and had some brekkie and at the staging ground and, and made our way by bus back to Wangaratta. And we were pretty glad by, by now it's New Year's Eve on 2019 and I don't mind saying that it was probably the earliest New Year's Eve I've ever had. We, I know my wife and kids and whatnot went out and caught up with some friends, but we were just, we were tanked. We'd had enough. We were buggered on our feet. And there was the whole emotional thing of it as well in dealing with getting through it. What had we just been through? It was very surprising. So that, that was, that was all good. We had a couple of days there and then my story continues a little bit from here. A couple of days later was Saturday, the 4th of Jan. And I had a call on the 3rd that there was a strike team to go up to Corryong. So a couple of days later and a strike team leader. Was needed. And I'm— I was a qualified strike team leader but hadn't led a strike team. And I knew a few people that had been up to Corryong in those days in between the Kajowa fire and there, and Corryong was pretty benign. There was not much happening. They'd been up there and as much having a presence in town for the community and backup should anything go amiss, but it was pretty quiet. And I thought to myself, a couple of things. I don't think I want to go back on the fire ground anytime soon, but then it's probably a chance to go back on the fire ground in fairly basic conditions. It'll get me a strike team lead under my belt, so to speak. I knew that the driver of the strike team vehicle and the penciler were both very, very experienced CFA people. You would, you would struggle to find people with more experience than two of them. So I knew I had them with me and yeah, it's pretty quiet. It's a chance to get back out there and, and I probably needed to get back out there sooner rather than later. So that was all right. So we again, head off from Wangaratta on a bus. To Corryong. And we were up there fairly early in the morning and it was a quiet day. It was like we'd heard that it would be, that that was the expectation. That's what it had been for multiple shifts before. So we familiarised ourselves with the area, with the township. We went for a run out to Towong, which is only a few k's out the road. And I don't know if everyone's aware, but Towong's got a a magnificent country racecourse, and parts of that racecourse and grandstand featured in the film Far Lap. It's a really iconic country racing venue. My family is heavily involved in horse racing, so I was well aware of Tawong and its grandstand and what it means to the community. We familiarized ourselves and the crews with, with Towong, and there's a bit of a housing development around there and whatnot. This was a different crew to the Kadjewa fire. There was a couple of people that crossed over, but by and large it was a different crew. So that was all right. We had a look around Towong and familiarised ourselves with the area, and then went back, and we were back at the staging area at Corryong and had a bite to eat and things fairly quiet. And then the call comes in, the button was pushed, as they say, and that was, um, Towong's under threat. Corryong, it looks like it's going to be okay, but you need to get out to Towong straight away. Um, it's coming over and it's coming over from the racecourse side. So, so we did, we headed out to Towong, um, pretty quickly. So I'm in, in the Land Cruiser, the FCV, as we call it, the Forward Command Vehicle. And we've got the 5 tankers behind us. So dispatched a couple of tankers to the racecourse because we need to protect that grandstand. It's, it's of public significance and, and it's iconic. And there, there was a farmhouse just adjacent to that as well, so that they could cover off both those. We'd called in air support as well to assist with the farm and the grandstand. And I remember the aircraft, the bomber came over and he did a reconnaissance flight and he jumped on the radio and said, I can't do drops. The weather conditions too dangerous. So that was a bit of a That was a bit of a hit. Once you lose air support, there's a bit of a misconception that the air support's the be-all and end-all, but it's unbelievably helpful. But when you don't have it or it's too dangerous for them, you don't have it. So, um, the crew, the crew did well. The grandstand still stands and, and they, they did well. And I don't think that farm was, um, too significantly impacted in terms of infrastructure. I know they, they would've lost some, some crops and, and whatnot and some pasture, but I think their infrastructure was fairly unscathed. But then the front had passed the racecourse and started to impact on, on houses. There was a spattering of houses in that little bit of a valley there, and then an estate up on a ridge. And luckily we'd check this out during the day. And that was on the advice of those experienced people that were in the vehicle with me. They were certainly pushed to do— push me to do that. And I think that was, that was really, really good. So we, we went up there, we— it's, they'd managed to protect a couple of farmhouses in between, and then we got up to the estate and unfortunately it was somewhat of a repeat of, of Kadjua where some houses were impacted again. We were fairly sure that they all had been vacated because when we were up there early in the day, but still we needed to send people into each house just to reaffirm and see whether people were there. If those people were there, did they need help? Were they comfortable? Did they need help to evacuate? So yeah, unfortunately we lost lost some houses again. So I wasn't having a good run. I'd been to two fires and lost multiple houses at both, as some other people had as well. So challenging, challenging times, but we did what we could there at Towong and Corryong, and we all made it home safe. And that's the main thing. So yeah, we got, We got back home to Wang and we had a bit of a debrief on the bus home and that sort of thing. But yep, we made it home and as I said, we're all safe and back to our families. And our families certainly have some challenges, as with, and particularly volunteers in the fire service. You don't quite know how things are going to unfold. And it's really a challenging time for those back at home. And I know In my particular case, my wife and two young kids really struggled, particularly when I went back the second time. But yeah, you— they understand, but it's challenging. And it's challenging for them at home when they only hear little bits of info and you're out there doing the job, doing the task. It's hard to maintain that communication back. To home all the time. So you might try and flick a message occasionally, but then there's often no service or, or whatever else. But, um, yeah, so that's basically my story of the, the Black Summer Fires of 2019-2020. Sorry for the interruption. This is Ian Westmoreland, the founder of Katsuki Heroes, and thank you for listening to this story from one of our amazing heroes. Our mission is Our aim is for these stories to provide hope and inspiration to people experiencing life challenges and to also educate the broader community on how best to provide support. If you would like to help us to continue to produce more hero stories and cover more adversity themes, we would welcome all donations. These can be made via our website kitsukiheroes.com.au. The donate function is at the bottom of the home page.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 35:08
Page.
Trav Ledger (Guest) · 35:09
We'd also welcome any feedback. You can email me direct using ian@kintsugiheroes.com.au. Now let's get back to the story.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 35:22
Wow, Trev, thank you for sharing that in such colorful detail and, uh, harrowing, emotional detail as well. When— so many questions, so many thoughts and impressions that you've created already. The house that you went into the first fire, the one where, you know, you described the outhouse continually burning and you thought you'd done your best and you left, and later you drove past and saw that you'd lost the house. Was that the first house that you'd lost?
Trav Ledger (Guest) · 35:57
Yep, yep, yep. I'd seen, I'd seen sheds burn over the years and things like that. And what I come to learn following both those fires and with some help from CFA, have a really good peer support set up. So with that and some debriefing with our crews and speaking to some people with far wider knowledge than what I have in this area is that you become so emotionally invested in the task that becomes your task. You're at, you take ownership of it. And so that's where then the loss or the devastation hits home following it is that you become emotionally invested in it. And at that point, it doesn't matter if it's their house or my own house or anyone else's house. I, or we, we were determined to save that house. So it's it's a loss that you take personally. It's not just a job at that point.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 37:03
Absolutely. And have you spoken to any of the owners of these houses since that day?
Trav Ledger (Guest) · 37:11
Not directly. Um, and what, again, subsequently what we found out, that a lot of the houses, um, aren't permanent residents. They're a holiday house, if you like, or a, a second house or a house Country House. What we did do was we went back up to Kajua. They had an event up there at the Kajua Hotel. And this was, it was quite a long time after it. And we got a little minibus, CFA minibus, and the people from that strike team, I think the majority of them went back up on the bus and we had a couple of beers and a feed at the pub and chatted to a few locals and, and that was really good. So. Give us some insight into the locals. And they were certainly appreciative of, you know, in this case, people from Wangaratta, you know, gone up a few hours, a couple of hours up the road to give them a hand and a chop out that night. So yeah, so we spoke to some locals about it following that.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 38:16
So yeah, that would have been really nice. Great to connect and and, you know, share with them as humans rather than, you know, the experience itself where you've come in and the place is deserted and you're there on a completely different mission. I, I just wonder, you know, if the owner of that house had any idea how much care and investment you put into trying to save it, right? And if they ever are listening to this, I don't know if there's a way that they could find out that you actually spent all that time, you know, hour and a half, whatever it was, and that was the house that you tried to save, how that would make them feel, you know, to know that, wow, they actually really did, they were there at our house, they went through, they checked it, they worked really hard. Wow. You know what I mean? Imagine what that would give them.
Trav Ledger (Guest) · 39:08
Yeah, yeah, that's it. And I guess that's, you know, we do it because it's what we do. But yeah, yeah, their house wasn't just left to its own devices, I guess. We did what we could at the time. And you look back now and you can only do what you can do. And that's with the passage of time and having to see the devastation on a couple of occasions. Took a little while to get to that headspace, but with that, I'll say.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 39:40
So, I mean, I've talked to a number of people about their experiences in the fires and all different people from different aspects, you know, having a house that burnt down, having a farm that was, you know, devastated, being a volunteer, an advisor, and then yourself right there in the thick of it. It really is a situation that like you say, you don't have time to think about too much. You're acting on instinct. You've got a job to do, and it's a job of saving humanity. You know, it's a humanitarian role, right? And I think for people like myself who, A, I don't live in a fire-prone area, you know, I don't have that firsthand experience, but it really takes me into a space of I guess, wonder and pride and gratitude that there are people like you who go in and fight on behalf of people you don't even know. That house that you tried to save, you got no idea who they are, and it doesn't matter in that moment. It's about, you know, helping people to live and help save what we have. It's really a precious and amazing thing.
Trav Ledger (Guest) · 41:04
Yeah, I think that was probably one of the key things that got me to join CFA in itself. Back when I initially joined, we bought a bit of land, as I said, just out of Wangaratta. And there were a couple of driving factors. One, it was just after the Black Saturday fires. So that was obviously fresh in everyone's mind, but we bought this bit of property and we've got some horses on it and whatnot. And I thought, if we expect people to help us, if things go bad and on a bad day, then I should be prepared to help other people on their bad day. So I guess that was one of the things that initially prompted me to join CFA. But yeah, and our thoughts is that we do it and we choose to do it for whatever reason and various reasons, but Certainly the people that had the losses, whether it was their farm or their animals or their house, our thoughts are always with them above ourselves. They, they were the real victims in this. And, and the rest of us have faced a few challenges, but the challenges that those people have had is, is next level. And, and then the challenges of the family. For firefighters that have been lost is just next level again. And I think everyone does it for their own reasons and it is that sense to help others. So yeah, it's a bit like the grandstand at Towong. There's a couple of questions, well, it's a grandstand, why you're so worried about it? But it's part of the community and it's got significance to that community. And it needed to be protected. So that's what happened.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 42:59
That's right. It's something that has that much meaning. It doesn't matter what shape or size or form it is, whether it's a house or a grandstand, it's part of our community. It's part of us. And yeah, I completely agree. It's important. I've got a couple of questions, Trav. You mentioned your family. How did they go during those 2 days, those 2, you know, maybe more than days, but the 2 fires that you fought? Were you in constant communication with them, or was there a period where they couldn't reach you or they didn't know what was going on? How did they cope with that?
Trav Ledger (Guest) · 43:40
That first night while we were in Kajuwa, We were in contact till fairly late in the afternoon, but once we got there and we got into the firefight, it was very difficult to be able to even just message back to my wife. So they had a Harry Potter marathon back here on the lounge, and I think they were awake most of the night. And just worried. And they're aware of the fatality on the fire ground over the other side. And I think I'd probably sent a couple of messages during the night, but only one or two would have been, yeah, just maybe when we had a chance to have a breather and that would have been it. And it would have been fairly basic, like, something like maybe tough going but okay, or yeah, we'll be, I'll talk soon or let you know when I can. And then in the morning again, we would've been, you've just got so much going on. You've got the responsibility of your crew and crew safety and everyone else. You're in communications with the other appliances. So there's a lot going on at any one time, but you are conscious of those back at home, but it may just be a simple message from time to time. When you can. The second time up at Corryong and Towong, probably a bit more communication that time. And that was because of how tough they, my wife and kids had done it the previous event. But yeah, same thing when you're right in the throes of it, when the stuff's really going down, you need to just be focused on the task in front of you. And then when you can, you'll flick a message back home and do that. So yeah, that was, that was it. But yeah, certainly some challenges there, but supportive. My wife's in the brigade and, and she's a, she's a firefighter. She has no desire to go to events like that. But she's happy just to turn out to our local sort of jobs. But you never know what job's going to develop or involve what. But, and the kids, they— kids are resilient. They get over it. They, yeah, Dad's back home now. It's all, it's all good. So, yeah. But, yeah, apparently they enjoyed Harry Potter.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 46:11
So, well, that's, that's great. Yeah. Remember that night we got to watch Harry Potter all night? Yeah.
Trav Ledger (Guest) · 46:17
Yeah, that was it.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 46:18
Mom's so cool. She let us watch Harry Potter. Yeah. How, how did you go after that? Fires, like emotionally, mentally, psychologically? Was it tough?
Trav Ledger (Guest) · 46:30
Yeah, there was, there was a few stages with it. Initially it was just, just physically wrecked, tired, buggered for days. The firefight was still going on, there were still strike teams going away, local strike teams heading up there, and, and strike teams from all over the state too, I might add. It's it wasn't just us. But I, I didn't go back, just for no particular reason. I just, I'd had enough. And it did, it took a little bit of time to get over just being physically worn out from it, from those couple of events. And I probably just wanted to enjoy a little bit of home time, bit of summer, and finally get back out in that boat and do a bit of Water skiing. And then after that, it probably developed into a bit of frustration, a bit of disappointment in, in myself, probably that, as we spoke about earlier, we'd, we'd lost so many houses over two events and gone from never having seen a house burnt to seeing, you know, a significant number of houses burned across two events, to that frustration that, yeah. And then, then the what-ifs, you know, what, and in both, what if we could have saved that particular house, maybe we shouldn't have left, you know, one house standing is better than two losses sort of thing. Maybe we should have stayed at that one house for longer. So there's a bit of frustration with that. And what if tragedy had struck, you know, what if one of the crew members, something had happened to one of my crew, you know, there's certainly that potential. So there's plenty of what-ifs come into it. And this probably went on for several weeks in various degrees, but we would catch up, CFA, organized a debrief with the whole strike team with some peer support people. So that was good. They then followed up with people individually. And that, that can be ongoing if you want. I don't continue that, but I do know of a person that, that does. So that's— yeah, they're the emotions. And it did, it took a while to process it. And that's where I started to learn about becoming so invested in, in the task, whatever that task is, and taking ownership of it. That's where I learned about that. And that, that's, that's a natural part of it and that you can work through it and, and let it go. And, and I, I have let it go, you know, I've let it, it was what it was like, you know, we're only 18. And we can't do the impossible and we gave it our best and our best passed in, in, in some ways and failed in others. But it is, it is what it is. You know, I feel the loss for those people, but I know now that our crew did all they could and they were so invested, like I said, that they wouldn't have tried any harder if it was their own home. Really.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 49:58
I think that's, that's the best takeaway. You know, you guys did it. Everything you could. And just, you can— it can never be a perfect outcome. You're dealing with Mother Nature. It's unpredictable. And, you know, you did everything you could, not only to save your crew and keep them safe and yourself safe, but you did what you could to try and save the community and what was meaningful for them. That's all that I think you're called to do. And you did your best. So thank you for that. Well done. I feel, I just feel really warm knowing that there are people like you, Trav, who approach life in this way and that there are people that are willing to sacrifice a lot to help serve and to help save what's meaningful. And that's, I'm sure you've been thanked a lot since the fires And yeah, I guess it's just my little moment of appreciation for you and all the people that do what they do. Yeah, it's a big job. How important has it been for you to be able to talk about your experience of the fires?
Trav Ledger (Guest) · 51:19
Yeah, absolutely. And that goes to our That starts for us even before the fire. I mentioned earlier that on the way to the fire, we start talking about things, and that's deliberate. And then we continue that, you know, we check on each other whilst we're going through the fire. We make sure everyone's accountable and everyone's where they need to be. And then following it, absolutely, we start our debriefs. We start our debriefs in in the bus on the way back to Wangaratta. And that, that's, that can be formal, but it can also just be a chat, you know, and just be a, hey mate, what about what happened there? You know, and, and talk about it. Sometimes it sounds a bit like telling old war stories, but it's, I don't see it as that a lot of the time. I think it's just getting that out and letting people have their say and, you know, it might be, well, geez, you know, that was close, but hey, you know, we got it, or we should have done this, or, you know, that got up on us pretty quick. But I think that it's just a way of letting it out, you know, and chatting about it. And I think that's very important. And then right up to the formal, you know, sit around, the proper debrief around the room. And I think all those things have their place. And have their place for different people. But I know I got a lot of value out of both aspects. And even the one-on-one chats with a peer support type person that followed and even followed for months later certainly just helped let go of some of that buildup of emotion, I guess you'd call it. But yeah, no, I think it's important. I think it's important And I think too many people don't talk about it. I think too many people probably think it needs to be overly formal where it can just be, you know, a couple of mates catching up or a couple of crew members that, you know, might not catch up outside of these sorts of things, but they can still have that chat about it. So I think it's very, very important.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 53:32
Yeah, I totally agree. Thank you for being open and willing to share your story. And I love hearing how the teams have such a close, open communication throughout the event and also after the event. And the support that you've been given is fantastic. We've gone on a while, but I've just loved hearing from you, Trav, and everything. In sort of summary, we're coming to a close. And I want to ask you about the community itself. What have you seen as being one of the most important things that has helped them move through the devastation of the fires? You know, what's helped the community heal? Maybe what else do they need, do you think people can do or do better to help heal?
Trav Ledger (Guest) · 54:24
I think, and Bear in mind, we're external of those communities that were impacted here. So we see one aspect of it. I wouldn't presume to know what's best for them, but my observation would be that the community helping the community is more important than, I think, perhaps government helping community. I think people get a bit frustrated with government trying to help and it's not always done efficiently and it's a bit bureaucratic.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 55:06
And I agree, and from my experience as well being in a flood-affected community, it's been the community members that have made the biggest difference. And you know, it's, yeah, we can all play a part. For sure. And connecting, helping each other, and having those much-needed open conversations. Like you said, doesn't have to be formal, but just a chat and keep talking. Trav, it's been an absolute pleasure. I want to thank you so much, the bottom of my heart, for all that you've done, for coming and sharing your story, and, uh, yeah, being you. Thank you. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Kintsugi Heroes with the Alpine Bushfires Special Series. Please like and share the show to your friends so we can get this out to even more people. If you have a story you'd like to share with us, please reach out using the contact details below and join us for our next hero's story. Until then, keep being you and remember that we are all heroes in our own unique way.
Trav Ledger (Guest) · 56:18
Only when it's broken, only when it's broken, when it hits you in the middle of the night and the truth burns so bright, only when it's broken. Only when it's broken. Take pride in those cries, it's only for tonight, and then you rise. Only when you're broken. Only when you're broken. Only when you're broken.
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