Is this a true story?

Yes. John Milham is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.

What organisation produced this?

Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.

What did John Milham learn from this experience?

John lived through four floods in seven years as a child in rural New South Wales and learned to brace for water that arrived slowly, giving his family weeks to prepare for the inevitable.

What would John Milham want listeners to know?

The real danger in floods is not just the water itself but what comes with it: snakes, debris, drains that can trap people, and casualties that happen every cycle.

What helped John Milham most along the way?

When people lose a sense of how things used to work, they lose the knowledge they need to survive the next time; communities that preserve their flood stories and listen to the old-timers are better equipped for what comes next.

What would John Milham tell someone going through something similar?

The difference between a quick flood and a slow one matters: rapid water shocks you all at once, while slow water lets you watch your life creep away inch by inch for months, which creates a different kind of suffering.

What topics does this episode cover?

This conversation includes four floods in seven years, the water knew it was coming, brown snakes in the current, the pub became a shelter, fifty years later, the hunter valley floods and the grand canyon of the murray.

John Milham

Four Floods in Seven Years: What the River Taught Me

John's childhood floods taught him that communities discover their own strength through breaking, and that discovery matters as much as survival.

Surviving a disaster Finding where you belong Rebuilding after it all fell apart+1

Hear this story

Overview

John Milham grew up in rural New South Wales between the ages of seven and twelve, living through four floods in seven years in a cotton-producing town called Wee. Unlike sudden downpours, these floods arrived slowly and predictably: water would travel down the river system from Queensland and northern New South Wales, giving families weeks of warning to prepare. John's parents owned the Royal Hotel, which became a shelter during the first flood, filling with families seeking safety. The real dangers were not the water alone but what came with it: eastern brown snakes, death adders, and red-bellied black snakes that swam alongside people during evacuation, as well as debris and drains that could trap and kill.

Fifty years later, John helped record stories from people affected by the 2024 Hunter Valley floods, where rapid water caught communities by surprise and left them without local flood history to guide their response. This work led him to the River Murray region, where the 2022 and 2023 floods unfolded over eight months as water slowly crept up homes, businesses, and farmland. The contrast struck John deeply: the Hunter Valley flooded in two and a half days, leaving people shocked; the River Murray rose inch by inch for months, letting people watch their lives gradually disappear. He was also struck by the landscape itself, the sheer scale and beauty of the river cutting through dry farming country.

What emerged from his conversations with River Murray residents was something unexpected. Communities that had lost their flood stories and local knowledge paid a price when predictions from authorities proved wrong. Meanwhile, experienced river workers known as lock masters predicted the floods more accurately than official forecasts. John discovered that people who had left the region for school or work kept returning, all answering with the same wistful smile when asked if they loved living there. Their answer was always yes. Through recording these stories, John found that the gold in the fracture is not survival alone but the discovery of community strength, shared knowledge, and the bonds that hold places together.

⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses grief & loss, which some listeners may find distressing.

If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au • GriefLine: 1300 845 745 · griefline.org.au

Transcript

Kinugi Heroes brings you the following River Murray flood recovery story jointly funded by the Commonwealth and South Australian governments under the disaster recovery funding arrangements. To find out more about this podcast, head to kugiheroes.com.au. The 2022 River Murray floods in South Australia were caused by record water inflows from the Murray Darling Basin due to heavy upstream rainfall. The slowly rising flood waters inundated homes, businesses, and farmland causing widespread displacement, infrastructure damage, and agricultural losses. The disaster significantly impacted local economies, communities, and led to the region's long-term recovery. In this special limited series of Kinsuki heroes, John Milum sits down with members of the Riverlands community and gives them space to share their experiences of their personal adversity and community resilience. It's only through connection and empathy that there can be a path to recovery. These stories of trauma can be confronting. If you find they have a triggering effect, please reach out to someone who can help keep you safe. Now listen in as John takes you to the Riverland Recovery Stories with Kugi Heroes. Hello everyone and welcome to the first of our podcast series around the Riverland and Murray Lands flood recovery stories going back to 2022 and 2023. I'm Ian West Mullen, the founder and CEO of Kugi Heroes. And for this podcast, we're doing something different. John Milum, who's normally the host of these conversations, is actually on the other side of the microphone. And uh I'm going to be doing the hosting duties. So, uh John is a a friend of mine. He's also a hero of mine. And I I love the way he uses his uh insight, sensitivity, lived experience, and uh great sense of humor uh to host many powerful conversations across Kuga Heroes. Apart from being a Kuga Heroes host, John is also the New South Wales state coordinator for Lift Experience Australia, a group facilitator for parents beyond breakup, which I'm also an ambassador for. He's a suicide prevention consultant and chairman for CARES Northern Beaches. He's a training and development consultant for mentoring men. And he's a director of Kuga Heroes. So, there's a real mouthful, but he's a man with a passion to give back to the community. And I just love the his heart uh for Kuga Heroes, but also for just people in general. Um John also has extensive experience that strongly connects him with the project that we're going to talk about today through his own lift experience. So, welcome John. Welcome, mate. That is that is a that sounds amazing. Who is that bloke you're talking to? Like he sounds very busy, right? And I feel like it that you know I'm not busy enough. So, it's interesting. Yeah. But thank you, man. That's uh that's that's wonderful. Great job. Well, thanks for this opportunity to host and and to chat to you and I'm sure you'll let me know later on how I've gone as a as a host. Yeah, notes will be taken and yeah, so far so good. So far great, right? Okay. So, could I take you back to um I guess you lived experience as a a kid in in rural New South Wales and there was a flood event there and and uh maybe take us back to that first experience and what you remember of that and take us through that journey. Yeah. Yeah. Like I have to say floods are big events, right? They're big events and um we moved we we we moved from one country region down the south coast of New South Wales to a very different country me region which was the spring plains out past narrow bry to a place called we which was a a a center of cotton production in in New South Wales and Australia. In fact it was the biggest cotton producer producing area in in the southern hemisphere. So it was massive and they and it was flat and it was black and and soil and spin effects and dry and um it was just a like it was just a a you know a very interesting landscape, right? And you would think so dry that you know flooding would not you know would be an unusual thing right like to contemplate. But we were there for seven years and we had four floods in seven years and they weren't just like in fact I I identify strongly to the stories from the Murray Land and Riverland because they knew they were coming and the flood in we wasn't about the rains caused excess water and the water filled up and you were flooded. It was about the system in Australia, rivers connect to other rivers and they flow down. So when massive rains in in Queensland and up in northern New South Wales would come and then you would hear a week or two weeks later that the the water was coming down the system and that you would flood. So, we knew floods were coming and it was like hot, dry, and then the water started appearing and slowly filling up the the the gutters, then the street, then they would come up to the steps and then they would come into the houses. And it was like a very weird kind of experience that you would you were racing against time to pro protect as and um as much stuff as you could, you know, try to get up elevated and um and put put away food and so on. And then once the water was in, it was often two 3 weeks before it would go again. How old were you at this point, John? Yeah, I was a kid. So we moved there when I was seven. seven just to and then I left when I went to town to go to um to uh high school. So um and then the family came up that year. So uh between the ages of sort of seven and 12. I remember you sharing part of this story before and you mentioned these brown stakes that were floating in the front and I've got this fear and I think the brown stakes are about the most deadly state you can get and most aggressive. So that would have been so the the three the three particular um dangerous snakes in the area were you like brown snake right so we're talking about the Australian eastern brown which is pretty nasty and the death adder right which is and um a um a red belly black steak which is also quite nasty right and they were the ones that seem to take to the water quite happily. So when you think about it, you're out bush and um whatever is out bush is either swimming or drowning, right? So it was quite common to to step out of the way as as a brown snake would, you know, swim past you. Right now to be to be fair, they weren't trying to get you right. But uh if you were in the way, right, it was pretty dangerous. I guess as a kid in the country you didn't worry too much about these things but the but the water was not pleasant right so and um there were you know there were animals there were all sorts of there were human traps people would die right so it wasn't a benign thing it wasn't a fun thing um fl you know like uh there were systems you know like the you know water would get sucked into drains and and that could catch you if you were walking through a street. So there are a number of incidences over the years of people being caught in a drain or there were also you know flows caused by sort of rivers and and bibongs and people could get caught by snags and debris. So it was yeah it wasn't an uncommon thing to have a few casualties each flood. Um so yeah like so you were warned you were you know there was quite a bit of education. What was interesting too was um because it was farming uh country, there were a lot of equipment. So we had these giant tractors and harvesters and things. So they would come into town and they would drag a big trailer or along so that you know even though the water was kind of up to your chest as a kid or up to your neck or even you know sort of swimming level, you could go to the center of the road. that was quite shallow and you could climb onto a track trailer so you could travel up and down the town, right, to go and get shopping or whatever like a it was like a taxi, right? So these giant tractors. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, but yeah, that's that's as a kid that was kind of exciting, you know, like it wasn't and yeah, like and and of course, you know, a lot of people were out of home, so the town would come together and house people. It wasn't like there were a lot of options in the town or what, you know, these were isolated country towns. So the church and the you know the the pre respiratory and the hotels and stuff would put people up. Your parents owned the pub. They did. Yeah. We had a country pub called the Royal and uh for the first flood I remember it being overflowing with people, right? Like PE, you know, families per room, right? So the second and third and fourth flood, I think my parents had learned a bit. So they sort of restricted access. But the first one was like a a giant workhouse, you know, like just people everywhere. Right. Yeah. Now, let's uh I don't want to give away your age, but let's fast forward a few years to 2024. So, 50 years on. Yeah. We've just given away your age. Yeah. Um so, Kugi Heroes had the the privilege of recording stories of people impacted by the the floods in the Hun Valley. Yeah. And uh uh we we were both up there and we met some of the locals and you had a chance to chat to them and uh so that that was a that flood was shocking because it was so surprising. The locals had no idea. They knew there was you know the potential for flood because it wasn't uncommon up there but the the extent and the nature of of what the water did in their place was unprecedented. So it was a record flood and to be honest they hadn't they they'd lost the law right so the history of people coping with big floods um that that wasn't well known so you know people had been there for 10 20 years but the last time it had flooded like that was you know 50 years right so they kind of lost the law and um as a consequence uh The rapid nature meant it caught people by surprise. The unprecedented nature meant it caught people by surprise and the unusual elements of the flood caught people by surprise. So there was a lot of trauma. A lot they and um people lost so much of their own of their personal personal possessions and and their properties, right? And you know, we were we were talking to them last year and they the the houses some of the houses had just been approved to be rebuilt, right? Re rebuilt, right? Courtesy of the challenges with insurance and that that kind of uh bureaucracy. But what what I especially noted was what people lost was this sense of of status quo. They got really shaken up. So there was a real trauma around um the the stability of the place, right? The the groundedness. That however isn't the whole story because what we discovered talking to them was what they gained as well. And they gained this amazing sense of community that had been fragmented at best, right? uh and they gained an awareness of the characters of their own community uh their own resilience. They gained a sense of the good and the bad of their community, right? And they owned that. And as a consequence, I think they were a richer place to to be and to live. I think, you know, despite the pain that was still evident, right? And we we bumped into people who were still getting over things, right? Um ultimately there was a there was growth that had happened as a group and that was impressive. That was a real credit to them. You mentioned that there was no history readily available from because it was such a big time frame between significant floods that uh I mean clearly through this project that we were both involved with there is now a written history from individual stories on multiple platforms. Do you think that would be useful going forward? Yeah, I I really do. I really think that's an important part of the of our process of telling the capturing the stories and telling them and making them. And I I'm I'm almost sure that that in in the local libraries and bookshelves, right, it's going to sit there and it's going to be unlooked for and the next big rain somebody's going to reach for one, right? And um when I say there was they'd lost the law, there were people there who knew, right? And what what I'm fascinated an aspect of fa of both places that we're talking to is the uh recognition that there is knowledge in the elders and there is knowledge in the uh indigenous population that people h are now much more aware and respectful of listening to. So, uh, a common theme in the Hunter was, uh, oh, we need to talk to our our, um, our locals, our local indigenous leaders. We need to talk to the uncles and we need to talk to the old oldies, right? To the originals. I love that. And I love the thought that the books we handed out could become collector's items of great value. Yeah. and and and to be honest in the in the Riverland and Murray land they're looking forward to that because they really recognized that they had lost some of the local river law. So John let's move on to the the Riverland and Murray land stories. Can you set the scene for us? Um what what what was what happened in 2022 and 2023? So in 2022 there had like you know it is a it's a big gorilla. So it's the major you know waterway system in Australia. So that it's not like it's not that floods aren't a part of the history of the river right but there had been a lot of changes in recent years. So there hadn't been a huge flood since 1976 and the biggest flood of all time was 1956. So we're talking 70, you know, 70 plus year, 70 year odd years and 50 years for something that was s, you know, really significant. So and there had been a lot of changes. So locks and and flood development and a lot of commercial development along the river. So people, you know, people hadn't known that, you know, populations had grown. There was uh there was a a thought that people people were saying, "Oh, the river won't flood that way again. It's all changed, right?" And it and it had been on the back of one of the worst droughts in history. So that you know, like, you know, any water was se you know, was seen as a good thing. But here's where it gets strange. the Riverland, you know, the the the Murray River from sort of the border, you know, just beyond the border from Victoria into Victoria and then down to it's very different from the other end of the Murray. It's so when I I I went down there and to be honest I we'd always heard about the Murray and I I had been on the Murray down towards uh you know the Victoria you know sort of you know Hume Highway area you know and I'd seen that and it was and it's an impressive river down there but I had no idea the just the physical and um you know the grandeur, the power, the just the overwhelming aesthetic of the river, right? So when I turned up just getting a tour along, you know, the little towns and areas of of um natural phenomenon along the river, it is so impressive. It's a it's a masterpiece. And I I kind of think of the the Murray area being this sort of table because it's quite you know the land around the river is quite featureless. It's dry and it's farming. It's sort of you know broadacre farming. So you've got a lines and lines of of certain crops, you know, you know, um typical Australian farm landscapes, little dotted farm villages and and and you know, tractors everywhere. And of course, um the feature of the architecture is this riverstone, cliff stone. So all these little farms and barns and things are made out of of, you know, stone, right? And so it's kind of it's very unique, but it's quite feature featureless. It's quite uniform. And then there's this giant centerpiece that is the river and it's so big and so variable and spectacular in landscape. So I was just blown away. I had no idea, Riley, like you know, that it was such a significant feature. like it's a you know it's a it's kind of a Grand Canyon feel you know for me right so I I'm looking at this going and of course it's a tough place it's hot um it's dry you living on the river is this narrow strip of green that cuts through this brown land um and there's like broad backwaters and riverlands and marsh lands and stuff. It's extraordinary, right? And then of course there's this whole whole lifestyle of people interacting with rivers, you know, like traveling up and down and tourism and recreation and boating and like even living. There are people, lots of people who live permanently on the river. So it's quite a quite an amazing place. So in 2022, the the rains up north had you know meant that people knew the Mray would flood. They knew 9 months before it flooded. What what they didn't know was how much. So the early predictions the predictions that had been passed to them was that it was quite a mild flood, right? No one was worried, you know, you know, about any kind of significance. As it got closer, the figure, the prediction kept going up to eventually it was getting to where numbers were massively par, you know, shockingly high. And we're talking like in 56 we're talking 9 m. So what what's that? you know like a fivestory building over a wide area as well. Yeah. So you know so the suddenly a few months out um certain communities realized that they were in big trouble and then this massive effort to mitigate the impact of a of a big flood was done. And so there's lots of stories of both, you know, protecting community and being impacted by the water in in communities, right? So there's both success and failure in terms of the flood hitting the the area. Your your love for the area, the the geography, the landscape as well as the people comes through and it it uh makes me want to go and visit the area. I've only seen snippets along the way. So hopefully we'll get a chance to do that later on. Yeah. Given this is the first conversation and the we'll we'll be publishing a new podcast every week, but you able to share insights from a some of the conversations you've had already is it? Yeah. So I I was I was I was blessed to go down and be met by a number of people, you know, members of the council, right? So, and people like the you know like Shelly who is um was the well-being officer for you know looking after people's well you know mental health during the period and um you know the the works directors and the you know the guys from Remar Council. So I had I really had some wonderful access and and had some tour around and the first thing we should note is that it's there there there are a number of distinct populations right so there are distinct areas right so the early part of the river is the Murray bridge section which is really a gateway to the Murray to that sort of recreational space and then you go through it's Manaman Blanchtown and then Berry and then through to Renmark which is the the the the sort of first part of the South Australian river and then you you know you go through to Miler and in Victoria New South Wales and Victoria. So what what was interesting is just the meeting people first of all they're very they're very tough people right one thing I note is I met so many folk who have moved away you know life has you know been you know they've had adventures you know they've gone off to to go to school or to travel or to take up relationships or to move you know move and chase employment and careers is and so many have come back. So, you know, there's this sense that there's muddy water in their blood, right? That they love the place and they talk about it as challenging, but they're unequivocally uh they all have the same smile when you ask them, "So, you know, do you do you love living here?" Right? and they smile and they all say yes, right? In that same sort of wisful way, they do love the river and the place and the people. And it the other the a couple another thing of note is that it's both locals and then there's this very dedicated group of people who are visitors, who are long-term visitors. So there are kids who have grown up visiting Murray during school holidays for their entire life, right? So it seems to attract people back all the way back to these sort of places of you know like tourist places but they're kind of set up for sort of the regulars to come. Um so and then so the stories of the 22 were like often about people who there were people who were saying it's not it's going to be okay and then there were people who were really worried that this was going to be something different and something you know challenging. Um, and in a way they were both right, you know, because the response was so good. They did a really good job in some areas and then there were other areas that probably didn't have the same level of response. That being said, we're still talking over 2,000 homes were lost. Wow. So, and um people who lived on the river, they they were unable to access their homes for the river was shut down for 12 months, right? And um you know, we're talking about, you know, people's businesses serving th that the regular clientele that come and stay and enjoy the the amenities of the river. those businesses were impact impacted for months cuz what happened was the water slowly increased right it was going up so it started sort of going up in September October the peak wasn't until January and then it started slowly coming down right so the the whole thing was kind of a you know a sort of 8 n month flood yeah I I heard a story that uh that they got out the the the Hunter Valley flood playbook and automated alerts was sent out through landlines and through mobiles. Evacuate, evacuate, evacuate and then mainly older people. So there was panic and people left and the waters arrived many weeks, many weeks later. Yeah. Yeah. The the one story um a bloke was trying to increase the height of his levy. Now there were regulations, right? So leveies are a challenging engineering feat. So he he was, you know, he felt like he had everything he needed to increase his height. And he had some oldtimer info where he believed the height of the flood in his area was going to go to a certain level. So his levey was like 30 cm short. So he was updating the levby uh to the height he believed was was necessary. and um the SCES had intervened, right? They said, "You don't have the engineering." It turned out that they were in error, right? So, he's not a very happy chappie about this, but um but what was interesting was they they you know, there was a conflict and in the end he was like threatened with arrest and all that. So, he had to stop the work and he they they insisted on evacuating. the water didn't breach the levey for another two and a half weeks. So, they evacuated him and he he could he couldn't take, you know, take his trailers out or he couldn't move anything or he couldn't increase the height of the levy. He just had to watch, right? So like there were a lot of circumstances where the best decision based on information that they had was made but that information was old or not you know not particularly based on on circumstance and and that cause that causes a lot of pain for people because they you know that destruction is a massive impact on their lives right their livelihood and their you know the things people are built and then they just watch wash watch them go. That's a very tough thing. You've you've touched on some of this already, but can you maybe draw some parallels or comp comparisons between the the Hutter Valley floods and the River Murray floods? Um what what was similar? What was what's what's different? Well, what's similar is water is devastating to human human endeavor, right? So what's similar is the water comes in, it takes your takes your personal items, it destroys your goods and chattles. Um, you know, it it curls your photos, it ruins your books, uh, it makes everything stink. It makes everything get covered in mud. Uh, and um, it is incredibly difficult to clean. So the stories of post flood cleanup are the same, right? There's often, you know, nasty water around and nasty cleaning needed and, you know, just hard work and heartbreak, right? Those those stories are the same. What's also the same is people struggling to get uh the you know attention in some places. So there's always someone who gets the f focus and gets the help and then that there seems to be always someone who gets missed out and uh you know we found both of those in you know in both places right in the hunter there were people who just had a story where they just did it tough and we f we've spoken to people in the uh in South Australia with the same story. What what what is also the same is care for others in the community. There was so many there was so many like Hana Valley they did it was a very you know it was like an you know it was kind of a a smaller place right but in the same way they didn't know each other and they you know were introducing as they were helping right and strangers were helping here it's kind of there's this sensibility of people on the river get helped right by other people on the river so there were people who were doing amazing things to support their community and to and take care of people. Um, and that that that spirit right in in rural Australia is so inspiring just hearing those stories and something I think we should be proud of and also we should you know like when Kugi tells the story that that's the real you know the real glor you know glory of the story right the real inspiration is how Australians are capable of that kind of support for each other, right? And it and it it it's the solution to so many things that that are tough in in Australian society at the moment. We're going through a some tough time. And I think not just natural disasters. We need to be aware that on a day-to-day basis, that spirit that's in the community that comes out in these natural disasters, it can it can help save people's lives and and their circumstances every day, right? So, that was common. What wasn't common is like the nature. One was quick, one was So, the hunter was rapid. It was two days, two and a half days in and then it was like 2 and 1/2 days out, right? And then people were just sitting there cross-legged, devastated going, "What just happened?" Right? The hunter people are sitting there going, "When is it going to happen?" Right? Cuz they were sitting there cross-legged, waiting, slowly watching inch by inch the water creep up the wall. There was a classic we you know a friend of the of Kugi project Jaba Smith who's interviewed he talks about he he was a amateur photographer and he was asked by the council to to to keep a record. So, there's a tree with notches from old floods in it, right, that had gone underwater in the 56. And he's slowly taken over the time until they wouldn't let him back in the park, right? He's slowly taken a photo every day of the water creeping up this tree, right? So, it's like uh and it became quite, you know, quite well known locally. People would, you know, log on to see where the water was, right? So it was like, you know, hanging over them for so long. And of course that concerns businesses and, you know, it's a tourist place, so people were desperately uh worried about bringing people in and out and stuff like that. So it was a challenge that side of things. Do you think the lessons are going to be learned from both these flood events? like you you've you've raised and the community has raised a number of issues around insurance around loss of business. In fact, many I assume many of the properties on the Murray uh River Murray weren't able to be insured in the first place or people couldn't afford. So that's such an important thing. So you know like given that you know the profile is fairly low in the Hunter right you know people were talking about increased premiums and so on and that was going to be a problem but on the Hunter there are people now who are saying there was no one who will insure them. So things like a premium for a business has gone from uh you know $5,000 for a for a an insurance package with flood insurance to to $20,000 and they won't include flood insurance. So you know it's a massive challenge and of course what happens if houses and businesses are not covered by floods cuz one thing we know a river will flood. I mean that's just the way it works right so yeah that's a big issue I think just going back to that core question you know the issues will they be taken on they tell me that they they are taking on these issues there are lots of lessons learned so things around you know in the Murray in particular they massive construction was done so you know months of 24x7 seven work done on on um on levies, right? And like big towns like Renmark was largely saved by the construction of really good levies. These levies we're talking are like were major engineering civil engineering feats and that took tens of thousands of hours right to to to do um and and they were like um largely paid for by the government and councils right so that's a big big impost um so I I think there are people looking at what technology can do so there are new ways of building walls waterproof walls And I think that that might be something that'll be, you know, progressed. Um, also too, the lessons, you know, they would we would sit down and talk and they would talk about they're very keen to see the book because those stories are capturing some of the, you know, the things they talked about. One of one one bloke, old old bloke, he talked about the the lock masters knew what was coming, right? And it sounds like a like, you know, a sort of uh a mysterious fantasy novel, right? But um the lock masters are are people who are charged with maintaining the the the lock the river for transport, you know, using locks to to to get people down. And they're old rivermen, right? And they knew they had certain ways of of understanding what the heights were going to be by the movement of water and the coverage and their predictions were much more accurate than say the ones that were provided by um by the you know by the department right so the this old bloke was saying the lock masters always said it was going to be a big one right you know so and what was interesting is I think people like the councils and like the environmental officers in the area, they are now sort of turned on to the law, the wisdom of the lock masters and other people. So, I think that's an important area that they've grown. What is also really significant is um certain certain communities did super well at looking after each other and others struggled a little bit. And I think there's a there's some real goodwill to to learn what was good and to pass on those lessons to other groups. And there's a lot of lot of energy for tell me what you did, how you did it so we can do the same. I think a scary thought is we're seeing more and more extreme climate change uh with the be floods and interestingly the area we're talking about is severe drought at the moment. Yeah. And there's you mentioned there's also been infrastructure changes along the river which could either improve or exacerbate the impact of uh of heavy rainfall. And it seems to me that having more accurate predictions about how high to build the levy banks and it what you're saying is that uh uh a lot of people were wrong. The official position was wrong in many cases. So um yeah, so maybe these lock masters are going to be part of the the key. So you like that idea of like I think there's challenges for our infrastructure and our climate people to start to become um you know much more sort of predictive and and on the money. Um it was interesting you know like the feedback in the Hunter Valley was that the process for measuring flow and stuff was wrong and um it got it it meant that some of the information was misdirected um and uh they're saying something similar uh you know in certain people in the in the in the Riverland. So I I think looking at those and saying we need to continually vet and improve our our technology for managing climate events is really important. I think there's also real real energy for a a community-based resilience and mental health support. So being able to, you know, support people who've gone through what is tremendously challenging situ event particularly if you've lost things or you've you know like your business or your you know your home or you know um you know people you know people who have lost their homes have not rebuilt they've moved away and that's not just challenging for them of course it's challenging for the community that's losing valuable members. So um you know those things have impact and need to be managed and I think so you know uh one of the success stories was the well-being offices and and I think that needs to be carried on and like recognized and and promoted funded for the future. Um and yeah, I think like they're very keen to explore their own their stories and I think that so we've been welcomed with you know such such generous support. So I think that's says a lot of good things for them understanding that you know this is not this is something that's going to be uh that they may need to face again in the future and it's going to be something that they'll they'll need to be prepared for. John, finally at a personal level, how's this experience been for you? Let's put both the the Hunter Valley and the River Murray floods in that. Has it been a has it been a roller coaster of emotions or how's it left you at the end of doing of doing this project to be honest? Uh so going around the Murray, right? Oh, I got there were moments where I I really did connect back to my childhood, right? Going through floods and being scared or excited, right, as a kid or like you. Um so but I also connected to the resilience of the community and the sort of coming together that that community had. So, and to be honest like that I just like talking to people right. Yeah. Like talking just you know you know Tony uh Sava who's you know like who you know put you know like who guided Renma to you know response and having you know people happy and people angry and people sad and he's sort of a young man who's like being a community leader. He's the head of the council at Remark and you know um you like he's an impressive young man and then there's like people who you know um Vicki who you know they had you know had a um a barbecue to on Christmas Eve to watch the water come up on on they had the barbecue on the on the top of the levy bank that they live near. and uh you know and then there's you know people who were constantly checking in on neighbors and you know saving gear for them and just helping out like this you know certain people worked for days trying to help uh their neighbors get gear out of the the way of the water those people I feel privileged to talk to them so for me I don't I'm excited to have the opportunity to both share their story and present their story, right? Like, you know, to for I'm curious about it, so I get to ask them questions and then especially excited to have those answers then published for the world, right? I'm just very I think um they're amazing. The stories are amazing and I I hope that um you know I feel good about putting them on the table for other people to to to to experience as well. John, it's been an absolute pleasure chatting to you. Um I think with clearly we're going to have more natural disasters in the in the future and I think with your lived experience and all the schools I mentioned at the start of this, I think you're the ideal person to go out there and bring these stories out. we we've seen that uh the therapeutic benefits for the storytellers as well as the story hearers. So uh love your work. Thank you so much for doing this and uh uh yeah uh everyone stay tuned. We'll be publishing uh stories just hosted by John in future uh every week and uh look uh please u watch or listen for the stories. Thank thanks John. It'll be awesome. And thank you for listening to this episode of Riverland Recovery Stories. If anything in this conversation has had a triggering effect, please seek support and reach out to someone who can help keep you safe. If you found this conversation interesting or helpful, please share it with your friends, family, and colleagues so we can help more people with their recovery from natural disasters. To find out more about Kinugi Heroes and our other projects, head to kinugiheroes.com.au. Thank you to our production team, Kinsuki Heroes volunteers, and most importantly, the Riverland community for sharing their lived experience. [Music]

Four Floods in Seven Years: What the River Taught Me

Overview

Chapters