Is this a true story?

Yes. John Milham is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.

What organisation produced this?

Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.

What did John Milham learn from this experience?

People often gather around the grieving but drain energy from them by needing reassurance, which is why John had to learn to protect himself and his three children first.

What would John Milham want listeners to know?

John spent five hours unable to breathe in a car park without knowing he was having an anxiety attack, and that moment forced him to ask what his true values actually were.

What helped John Milham most along the way?

The worst thing John would take back in an instant has led to so much in his life that he wouldn't give it up, which taught him that calling things good or bad is meaningless.

What would John Milham tell someone going through something similar?

John went from being a corporate high-flyer absent from his kids most of the time to someone who now sits down and enjoys every moment with them, and he would never have been in that position if his wife had lived.

What topics does this episode cover?

This conversation includes before the fracture, the diagnosis, learning he was never a grown-up alone, the strange circle of grief, sitting alone at 3am and the moment love revealed itself.

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Overview

John Milham was a corporate high-flyer with a 27-year partnership he thought would last forever. He had built a life that looked complete on the outside: a successful IT career, three children, a house, the boxes all ticked. Then in 2006, his wife Glenn was diagnosed with bowel cancer. Eleven months later, she was gone. John was left at 42 with no idea how to be an adult without her. From age 16 onward, he had leaned on her for emotional maturity and life management. Now he had sole charge of three kids aged 13, 10, and 5, and no skills to nurture them.

What followed was years of what John calls his crazy period. Grief knocked him down in ways he didn't see coming. He sat on his deck at 3am smoking cigars, contemplating whether he could keep living. He discovered that the circle of people who gathered to help often drained energy from him instead. At work, he pretended to function while completely incompetent at home. Five hours in a car park, unable to breathe, he experienced his first anxiety attack. That moment became a turning point. It forced him to ask what his real values actually were.

What saved him was not one thing but many: faith, relationships, research, and a commitment to understanding himself. He learned that most people don't want to die; they just cannot keep going with what is happening. He learned that the worst thing he would take back in an instant has led to so much he would never give up. Now, sitting down with his kids, he enjoys every moment in a way he never could have as a corporate flyer working away from home. He has become a seeker of wisdom and a listener to other people's stories, finding his purpose in helping others find hope.

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John Milham (Guest) · 02:37

Yeah, it's interesting, um, the event, right? And it is, uh, it's an apt description, right? It's a It's a point where I call, um, the, um, it's a come to Father event, right? Right. So before that, I had, um, I was— had spent 40 years doing my best to make up for the things that, um, weren't happening, like, um, you know, a nurturing, peaceful childhood and the bits and pieces that come out of that. What is not an uncommon thing, I'm sure, in Australia, right? Quite a dysfunctional family dynamic, right? My generation, I think, had that fairly commonly in place in many ways. The product of our time, right, coming out of, you know, our family were children in post-war and post-Depression and, you know, all that stuff. And limited in terms of understanding what we now know as QI, as core, which is emotional intelligence, right? So whatever that leads to, whether it's, you know, neglect or violence, or in many ways, just really a sort of substandard, you know, education as a child or an ability to be a child. What I generated, um, you know, some issues around that, but I met my wife, uh, or to-be wife, I met her at, um, school, right? So I sat in front of her in English. She didn't like me much. We— and then I was sort of, you know, a bit pushy at a local dance one night when we got together, as the kids would say now, hooking up. And, you know, it was on dodgy ground for a while, but then we— I took her out, did, you know, very chaste leads, and we saw the Star Wars premiere, right? We were at the very first Star Wars. So that really cured things, right? Right. So that was good. So we went on and were together, got engaged at 20, married at 22. We're pretty, you know, grew up together, you know, developing a pretty solid partnership. What was impressive about that was my wife had been through adversity from a young age. Her father had died at 8. Her mother had struggled to bring her and her sister up as a single woman. On the Northern Beaches, you know, on a pension, right? So they did it tough. And she had these incredible, you know, earthy, grounded qualities of resilience and understanding. And I gained so much from that association. So she really pulled me back from the edge of where I was heading. And she created the man that I was to become. The issue about that was, though, I had never been a grown-up without her. So in, um, the week we got married and, you know, you know, developed careers, bought a house, had all the boxes ticked that I was, um, you know, I was doing quite well in a corporate setting. Um, you know, we looked to upgrade cars. We looked up great. You know, like we're doing, or going to barbecues and, uh, talking about stuff we owned and, you know, places we wanted to visit. We had 2 kids, 3 kids came along, and I was, I remember my wife was not feeling so well. I went overseas on a work trip and when I came back, it turned into something quite serious. It ended up being diagnosed as bowel cancer and then everything changed.

The diagnosis

John Milham (Guest) · 06:40

That was in 2006. Okay. Um, so she was— we had about— we had 11 months and 15 days of treatment, and then, um, uh, she— it got her. So she passed away in 2007. So it was on May the 1st. Our wedding anniversary was May the 2nd. May the 1st was the birthday of our eldest son. That was a couple of weeks after her birthday. And, uh, you know, and 5 days before, you know, a week before Mother's Day. So, um, it wasn't, wasn't a good time. So for anything, um, and of course, you know, I had no idea. I had no idea. I was completely, um, as an individual, as a human, I wasn't capable of operating on my own. I'd been completely— from the age of 16 to 42, I was a partner, a part of a symbiotic relationship. Um, in many ways, she was the grown-up. And so, you know, I was left without any kind of maturity with 3 kids. Um, and thinking I was kind of a cool guy, like, you know, capable. I thought I was, you know, like people told me I was capable in the world, right? I had a corporate career. I was, you know, involved in the community. I had, you know, achievements under my belt. And what I learned at that point was that I, I'd essentially been a self-indulgent wanker up to that point, forgive the language. And I was left completely in my incompetence. Uh, and, uh, that was part of the journey I needed to undertake. Uh, whether I was going to survive depended on how I then, um, got through the next couple of years from a grief perspective, uh, from a learning how to adult, so from an emotionally mature perspective. And just a pure logistics one, right? Can you imagine my poor kids? And can you imagine having to learn to cook at that stage and like feed your kids, right? They were incredibly patient and actually quite, quite encouraging, right? They used to tell me, like, it became a bit of a joke where every night they'd say, Dad, this is the best you've ever cooked. And of course it was right, because the starting base was literally inedible. And the, and by the start, by the time I'd actually managed to put together 2 or 3 items that didn't make you want to vomit, right? So every day it got slightly better. And so they were actually, you know, telling the truth. Eventually they started enjoying this, right? So I, you know, that, and that was kind of. A parallel to my journey, right? Eventually, people, uh, I started being functional and then actually competent, right? But that was, you know, years in, in the making. And not least, you know, mentally, uh, from an emotional health point of view, I was, I was, um, I call it my crazy period, which is probably ending soon. Hopefully. But one of the strange things about grief is that people gather around. And it's, it's strange because I think of it as they gather around and they rush up quite close and then stand in a circle around you. Right, which is weird, because they're super keen to help. But Australia— Australians are really bad. I imagine many Western cultures are really bad at grief. So they're looking at you going, wow, I really want to help. What do I do? So half the time, that circle of people supporting you are actually taking energy out of you. Does that make sense?

The strange circle of grief

John Milham (Guest) · 11:04

Because you're giving them a chance making them feel better about being able to help you. So you're trying your best to help them, you know, connect to you, right, when you have nothing to give, right? So it's a very strange dynamic. So I understand that many times you see people, you know, friends and relatives, I'm sure you've encountered where, um, they are— they're locked down, right? Or they— or they, um, they avoid— they go into their shell or they pretend it's not happening. Or particularly with men, often they, you know, we'll put our energy, we'll hide in work or we'll actually physically hide. We'll be away from our normal support or social circle. Or we become consumed. You see people being consumed by, say, exercising response. Or there are other, of course, less healthy less healthy medications we can take. We can self-medicate with alcohol or drugs or irresponsible behavior even. I personally think wingsuit activity is one form of avoiding our mental challenges. I think it's an extreme use of endorphins.

Aveline Clark (Host) · 12:19

But tell me, so what did you partake in, shall we say, as your choice of, you know, is it— was it escapism?

John Milham (Guest) · 12:29

It's desensitizing the pain. So you could call it an escape, trying to escape from what's real, which is at the moment, at that point in time, your systems have shut down. So you're operating— if you can, you know, I'm from— I have an IT background. So I often think of it as a full system shutdown. And then an emergency backup system kicks in. It's running on minimal power with minimal function, right? It's like, uh, you, you power up your Windows system in safe mode, right? Um, and I felt like that was the case. I had a, a facade of operation, but underneath nothing was working properly.

Aveline Clark (Host) · 13:11

And how long did that go for?

John Milham (Guest) · 13:12

Years. Okay. Years, which surprises everybody. Because people, people are very generous. I have a beautiful community and they came to help and they were physically, you know, at one stage, my, my son, I knew he was doing okay when he started complaining, no more lasagnas were coming through the door. Right. Yeah. Very, you know, people are physically able to help and that's wonderful. That's not, I won't put that down at all, but It's not, um, you know, this is a deep emotional psychological wound, uh, a void, not so much, you know, a wound. It's, it's actually a void and it's filled by connection. So, um, what I did was, I guess, um, I discovered that I was a that I was a contemplator. So I had a— this— I had a deck that looked over a beautiful part of Sydney Pittwater, and, um, at the time, and I, I lack of sleep, so I, I didn't sleep very much. So I would sit there and, uh, I had cigars and, and thinking. So I would, you know, basically sit there most of the night. I'm talking 2, 3, 4 in the morning, looked out over nature and smoked cigars and thought about what, how I was going to do this. And of course, in that moment, as you can imagine, there's some very dark thoughts.

Sitting alone at 3am

Aveline Clark (Host) · 14:56

Yeah, tell me what it, what, yeah, tell me about that.

John Milham (Guest) · 15:00

Very well, you, you, I need, you know, when you hurt so much you need to decide, and there's no Panadol available. And you— I'd already chosen not to go down the route because, um, it's very attractive, but I'd, you know, physically held myself back from drinking during that period. It was just too attractive, um, or any other kind of, you know, substance like, um, you know, sleeping pills or whatever. You know, there were offers of, you know, I will take this, it'll help, you know, and at the time I just felt the need to confront this. But at the same time, I had no skills or resources to call on to deal with it. So I just sat there and wondered what was, what was, you know, what I was going to do. And I was desperately keen to talk to people and find out. So of course, the internet was a resource I had in 2007, up to a point. Um, and people— there weren't many people in my situation at all. So anyway, I sat there and, um, it hurt. It really, really hurt. I, I had no idea about how I was going to get through. So one of the things that, um, I really— I looked at was, you know, I'm very step through the process of what would happen if I, if I decided to opt out, if I killed myself. And it seemed like a pretty good idea. There were just, you know, you can't— it's not about dying. It was really inconvenient to die. But it was about saying, well, you know, I'm not sure I can live. Right with what's going on. And that's a very— I now know that that's a position that most people don't want to die. They just don't want to keep going with what's going, what's happening at the time. So it was really important for me to, to talk to people, and a few people came into my life that had conversations. To be interestingly, my, you know, those new people became the most important people in my life, as opposed to many of the people I, I, you know, I had every day before that. Um, and, and many of it was driven by lived experience. You'd often get people who knew what was going on that would come in and make a difference. Uh, that said, it was, it was, I was lucky. I had a chance to bump into those people. There was no concerted effort to find, I didn't even know that, that what that was, what was happening. That. And then I was just lucky that I, um, at the times where I was most at risk, uh, where I got closest to the edge of that decision, just, you know, a thought, a stray thought, or a stray encounter, or conversation, or just, you know, to be honest, I'm grateful I was a little, you know, a little wary of like you know, of— I didn't want to— I like the idea. I don't like heights, so that took out a whole kind of concept, right? So it would have been very easy to find a— find the edge of something and, and go. But it was interesting, I just didn't like that idea, right? So then you've got to go through a whole bunch of other things. So it was kind of— it was kind of just a logistics thing that— and I was just lucky. You know, I had something in me that just, you know, whether it's kids or, you know, anything, you know, like, and the interesting thing is when you're there, I always think of it as I've got an idea, you know, I work with good people now where I recognize helplessness, hopelessness, and worthlessness as the, as the thing that drives us, the, the, the, the spiral of thinking that gets us into that space. And I can recognize that in myself. What I think held me back at times when I needed it was a little bit of arrogance. I had an ego. So in that ego, I refused sometimes to give up my worth, even though, um, I felt completely battered by life. And, and at times, I guess I just hung on to a little bit of worth, right, which is kind of lucky. Um, and that kept me safe. For each moment, because, you know, they come and they go. Um, and, and then, so when you're left, when you decide to stay, or you, you decide not to go, more likely, um, you then have to decide how you're going to do that. And that becomes— that changes everything. So back to where you said the event That was the point where I, you know, said goodbye to my wife on the bed, um, at her, you know, as I watched her go. Um, and I then, I remember a little bit later looking into the eyes of my kids as I shared that news and no No heart survives that unchanged. At that point, I had a new life to build and no identity at all. So, you know, I, uh, I had physically lost weight at the time because I was, you know, trying to be healthier for my kids and all that. Um, so I was like physically different. I certainly had no, uh, you know, my logistics, everything in life was different. And I certainly, my identity was inextricably bound up with my, uh, working partnership with my wife. We were never planning to be apart, right? So we'd never really contemplated that. I'm sure she might have on, on a few occasions when I was particularly inconsiderate, but, uh, I'd never, I'd never decide. I was never going to go. And just in a little aside, I'm sorry. Um, it's funny that the moment, uh, when love slips away, right? You and your mom, that partnership, just during that period where she was, um, very, very sick and then going. I perhaps learnt more about what it was to be in love at that moment than I'd ever learnt before. Right. So like, it's such a, you know, life could be such a paradox, right? Because at that time, you are probably, I remember basically never being more in love with my wife than at the moment that she she was, um, you know, heading out.

Three kids and no idea what to do

John Milham (Guest) · 22:24

Huge question. Um, my kids were, uh, so it was my son, oldest son's 13th birthday. So I— my kids were, uh, two boys, 13 and 10, and and the princess was 5. There are two things about kids. Like, we call it— we talk— we often say they're resilient, and they are, right? But they're— I, I, I, I would frame it slightly differently. I would say, given the opportunity to be, they, uh, they can heal. It's almost like treating a wound with the best kind of treatment you can. It's going to heal up much faster than if you fill it with dirt and all that stuff. So the problem is the best kind of support they get is really often unavailable during a period of grief, right? So I said it was my cra— I was crazy. I was angry. I was indignant. I was really indignant that, that the, this had happened to me. When I'd done, you know, I had, you know, put the hard yards in, I'd suffered and then I'd come through. I had a bunch of boxes ticked. Right. And I remember thinking just, you know, not too long before, uh, uh, my Glenn was my wife before Glenn was sick was I was thinking, oh, this is it. I'm pretty much locked into my life now. Right. At that stage I'll go, oh, okay. Well, I better give up the thoughts that I might, you know, join the Foreign Legion or, you know, um, go, you know, do adventurous stuff like, um, I just, I just sort of tapped into that suburban life. But maybe there was a little bit of, you know, resentment, maybe not, I don't know. I can, I just remember it as thinking, oh well, you know, things are pretty locked in. And of course then, bing, right, the universe slaps you across the face. Uh, really, and it's the injustice of it all. Like, I was the one who played up, right? You know, she was a, you know, she was a suburban saint, right? So good, put up with me and life and 3 kids, and she really put the hard yards in. And it was coming up to when she should have been reaping the benefits of that, and she was taken away. And the injustice of it I, you know, I felt angry and frustrated about my situation. I'm left here. I'd never signed up to be a nurturer. I was not a nurturer. I was a, you know, if there was China, a china shop, even in the district that was in danger, right? I smashed around life. So, right. It wasn't fair that I was now given sole charge of these you know, what I thought at the time were these fragile things. Like, I thought of myself as a great father, um, which involved me, you know, coaching rugby and, you know, you know, sitting down quietly when I came home from work to take care of things, right? Of course, all the details— I didn't know what a blue book was, or, hey, you know, what inoculation went where. I didn't know how to, you know, feed, you know, what they ate for lunch, or, uh, you know, how to hem, how to get a uniform. I think my daughter, the first 12 months, she was 5, she was going to kindergarten, and I think she went to school with, with, you know, uh, a hem 3 different sizes, right? Yeah, like she was, you know, like up and down and, you know, around the ankles half the time. I don't know, but, um, how they were physically, they had their needs taken care of, you know, fairly badly. I did my best emotionally. It's true that they can heal quickly, kids. They're resilient if I'm giving them what they need. And I discovered that, that a couple of things. The first was I need to give, particularly Rebecca, my youngest, I needed to give them a sense that I, you know, that I was grounded. So part of maybe what kept me there was not the fact that the kids needed me. You know, I suspect they, you know, I thought they might be better off at times without me being so angry and horrible. But they needed to know that someone in their life wasn't going anywhere. And that kind of call to duty may have anchored me a little bit. Um, and then they needed ritual, you know, we needed to find something that was stable, maybe create new, uh, family cultural, you know, memes and processes and rituals. Um, and then I— they needed me to become a better bloke when I stopped yelling at people and things and the— and yelling at the sky at 4 o'clock in the morning. And I just, I guess I stepped up to that challenge and I started to seek out what it was to be a better bloke. Sorry for the interruption. This is Ian Westmoreland, the founder of Katsuki Heroes, and thank you for listening to this story from one of our amazing heroes. Our mission is for these stories to provide hope and inspiration to people experiencing life challenges and to and also educate the broader community on how best to provide support. If you would like to help us to continue to produce more hero stories and cover more adversity themes, we would welcome all donations. These can be made via our website kitsukiheroes.com.au. The donate function is at the bottom of the home page. We'd also welcome any feedback. You can email me direct using kintsugiheroes.com.au. Now let's get back to the story.

Aveline Clark (Host) · 28:25

You said you, you had a successful corporate career. So at the time, through that, through that last stage of your wife's illness, were you working less? Had you taken leave? Like, what, what were you doing in terms of work?

Two years of pretending at work

John Milham (Guest) · 28:39

I was so guilty I'd been overseas, uh, on an assignment just when she was, um, first discovering the, you know, the extent of her illness, right? And I'd come back, it was only a couple of weeks after we're back that she went in and was diagnosed with a, um, with a tumor in the bowel and had surgery and started treatment. So I, I I didn't forgive myself and I projected that onto work, so I didn't forgive work. So it was maybe about 2 years. So essentially, I just blamed work, so I treated it quite badly. The strange thing about grief is if you like, no, there's so— people are so scared of approaching it. But even when you're, you know, you know, a manager in a major corporation, right? And you just go MIA because you're grieving, right? People won't even talk about it. So they just pretend you don't, you know, they shut the door on your office and, um, you know, they just say, oh, he'll be back soon. Yeah. So I did, I did take a lot of leave. Um, in IT, the world was, you know, like I worked for IBM, there were 50 you know, there were only a desk for 50% of the people, so you could work from home. And I had, you know, I was connected with overseas, so I was often, um, 24/7, you know, like, so it, you know, you could cover, right? So you could keep things ticking over. But, um, yeah, I was, it was a, it was a useless process, right? The, the level of incapacity that you, you're carrying, you're just pretending that you're functioning properly, particularly after my wife passed. I was, I was, I was completely and utterly just, you know, incompetent. I was reduced to the base level of incompetence. The only thing I was competent at was pretending I wasn't incompetent. All right. So I would just, you know, oh, how you going? Yeah, good, good. Getting on top of things, you know? Yeah. Starting to come back, starting to get my handle back in the, you know, head back in the game and people were happy to hear that, right? They weren't looking, so they let you go, right? Um, yeah, afterwards it was just a nightmare for, um, managing all the things that were new in your life. So I didn't sleep for a couple of years, basically. I would, um, you know, I'd work late after I got the kids into bed and so on. I would start working at sort of 10 and finish at 4 and get an hour and a half sleep or 2 hours sleep and then start, you know, making breakfast and school at 6. Spent a lot of money on, on really bad domestic help. I couldn't pick a decent au pair or nanny if I tried. So we had some adventures in that area. It's actually a point of amusement with the kids now. So, you know, some of our, our guests. Um, yeah, so, uh, you know, yeah, you just stumbled through. So yeah, it was a, it's all a bit of a blur. Couple of years later. So here's, and I just started to open up and I, you know, that full system shutdown we were in, it's like slowly you start to get things, power restored to one or another systems, right? Mm-hmm. So it's almost like a staged open up. Right? Some people call it a layer of onions, but I love the idea of just, I'm powering up another system, right? So I've got the, you know, the, so I had the heart system coming back online, one sort of, you know, application at a time. And so, you know, there was the possibility of, you know, being a single bloke now, right? So there's a possibility that starts to head into you of a relationship. No idea, right? No idea, right? I'd never— hadn't really dated. I was 16 when I met my wife, and, um, we were together 27 years. Uh, she passed away on our— the day before our 20th wedding anniversary. I had no idea about any of that stuff. So, um, but the possibility, you know, you might, um— and that, that's a whole nother level of hurt when all those systems start coming online. You can you get new issues popping up. Wow. Um, so I, um, there are certain things that you realize that now, um, are too painful or too scary to go to because, you know, the first time you try to access them, you suddenly realize that's off. You know, you haven't repaired that, that conduit. Um, and then I was sitting in— I drove to work, um, And I was sitting, I got in the car park and as I pulled up, right, I contemplated getting out of my car park and walking into the office and I couldn't breathe. Suddenly I couldn't breathe. I'm just sitting there and I had no idea what was going on. I was so freaked out by it. And I, I had this incredible pressure, you know, that was sitting on me. The jaw was tingling, my shoulders were stiff. I had, you know, I sat, I was perfectly still. And I did not know if I was going to be able to take another breath. And I'm thinking I'm having a heart attack. So I'm sitting here going, oh my goodness. And there was kind of this peace coming over me going, well, if I die, it's not my fault, right? I can't be blamed for messing up the kids, right? So, but you know, and sit there and then each breath you actually had to will yourself to breathe again. And I'm freaked out because I had no idea what was going on. And then I was just overwhelmed with this sense of weak, you know, worthlessness, this sense of what on earth, John, the people you once put down for their, you know, here's a cup of cement, harden the fuck up, you know, like, Literally, you know, that was my life. And now I'm the person I would be, you know, completely, you know, dismissive of. Um, and I didn't know what was going on. I thought I was dying. Um, and I sat there scared to move in case a breath wouldn't come. Um, and it was 5 hours I stayed in that car just contemplating whether the next breath would come. And then, um, I started to get confident that I could keep breathing, and then I was completely freaked out. So I just— I was fuging out. I just lost it. And, um, I now know that was my first anxiety attack. What's an anxiety attack in my world, right? You know, you didn't have them on a rugby paddock. So, um, yeah, it was a strange and And that changed. That really was a huge catalyst. Like, John, what's going on? And underneath, underneath that, I'm so grateful for that experience now because unlocking the secret to that anxiety attack led me on a path where I started finding out what my true values were. Um, I started understanding that, um, there's a whole nother language to speak and it was a language that women know well, that I was getting— I was hearing from the people I had to talk to about my daughter, you know, because I had a young daughter and it's her friends. And, you know, became the mothers of her friends became the people in my life on a weekly basis. And they had this whole other language that— and this almost this club that men don't even know about, which is called like a, you know, Coffee and Emotional Truth Club, you know, and it's— and I was fighting about those things and then it hit, you know, I discovered that that was, um, that was the path forward out of my anxiety. And to be truthful, that was the beginning of the end of me ever being able to work in a corporate environment again because, um, giving up the values that I started to unlock. And the, and once the heart, once I opened up the capacity to feel as a bloke, I didn't want to shut it down. And I, I realized that I couldn't, um, I couldn't subvert those things anymore to, to go in and, you know, sit in an office and do what I now think of as unconscionable things, you know.

What actually saved him

John Milham (Guest) · 37:51

Yeah.

Aveline Clark (Host) · 37:52

And there was obviously a big period after that of healing, having that anxiety attack, figuring out your worth. What was it that helped you on the path back to, I guess, where you are now, if you want to call it a level field, or I don't know if it's still a hill, what you're climbing. Um, you know, was it a faith? Was it a belief? Is it people? What helped you get out?

John Milham (Guest) · 38:16

Yeah, isn't that interesting? It's all of those things. And you talk about a hill. I don't like climbing. Hills are great, but they're good to be at the top of. I hate going up, but I'm a waterman. So I think of it as a, you know, like I'm out in a storm, you know, wind, rain hits you. You can be out in the rain, but it's fine. You can be out in the wind, but it's fine. And, but sometimes the waves, rain, and storm hit you and you are just hanging on.

Aveline Clark (Host) · 38:48

Right?

John Milham (Guest) · 38:48

And then it eases, right? But every now and then this wave comes along and smacks you down again, and you suddenly go down and you struggle back up. Um, uh, but then the lull, you're okay again, right? You know, and it's like there's no rhyme or reason to the amount of lulls or the amount of waves that hit you or keep you down. So I often feel it's like that. I, you know, some days I'm on top of the world, over that 15 years, what was the— you know, I had lots of storms hit me. So here's an interesting idea. As I eventually started sort of, you know, contemplating and then doing something about a relationship, for me, it was a few years. Often men operate a little bit earlier than that. They often reach out for a relationship because it's a form of medication. Right? How can you avoid facing the big questions? Well, easy. You get someone competent in doing them, right? Um, you suddenly realize, and here's where I was an incompetent, self-indulgent wanker, was, um, you suddenly realize that I needed a, um, domestic help. I needed a cleaner, a cook, a nurse, uh, uh, you know, childcare. I needed, you know, um, someone who, you know, I needed a therapist to you know, intimate advisor. I needed a fashion advisor, a style, you know, like PR person, right? Or a wife, right? Basically, you know, all of those things, or a wife. I understand the attraction in that, but I just, I knew I had a really good piece of advice. A very wise, uh, woman once said, look, most men, you know, jump into a relationship straight after grief. And it's always the wrong one. Um, and, and I, so I just said that I put aside alcohol and other substances and, and also I included that in a relationship and I just said, I'm gonna work on myself. Um, I thought I was doing a good job. So, but part of the learning is when you start to be in other relationships, right? Each one is different. So like, to be honest, I, I experienced my first broken heart at like, at 46 years old. Right. And so, cause I'd never had, never had someone break my heart before. Well, cause your wife leaves, you don't, that's not, you know, kind of a broken heart situation. It's a complete loss of, you know, of, but you never, you don't stop loving someone, right? It's, they're not there, but it's not, you know, the severance of your, of your love. You grieve. I believe grief is about losing your future, not that person.

Aveline Clark (Host) · 41:34

Yeah.

John Milham (Guest) · 41:34

You know, um, uh, because, you know, that person, you know, you could— you left for work every day and you didn't grieve them, right? You missed them. So I missed my wife, but I did— I grieved, I grieved my life. Um, yeah, so I— you learn those things, and each time What gets you out of it? Well, for me, I discovered I became addicted to, to, to, to research. So I spent tens of thousands of hours in those 15 years either doing, you know, researching, you know, the net or rabbit holes or having as many conversations about this stuff as I could, often to the detriment of our, of relationships with people who didn't want to talk about this stuff. I remember a mate of mine going at one function, he goes, John, it's really hard now to talk to you. And I go, why? And he goes, well, can't you just talk about footy anymore? Right. You're like, why do you go, why do you have to ask all these questions? Um, yeah. So I, you know, I was, um, I was inspired to find out as much as I could. And I found, and it's wonderful that there's a lot of stuff out there. I became a seeker. So I, I also sought experiences, right? So I reached out at the time. And if I can take a moment, you talked about faith. I was a Premier League atheist, right? So I, you know, I was an evangelical atheist, right? So I used to, before my wife got sick, I used to run around helping Christians get over Christianity, right? I would try to convert them back to sense, right? So when— and the thing, I know it's a bit trite, and I apologize to atheists and Christians for this, but when there are— I don't think there are many atheists on a crashing plane, right? And when the injustice of my wife's illness taught me to be angry at someone, and that someone was out there, the universe, whatever, so we— what we call it, And so of course, when she left, I was just like, you know, you go into begging mode, you go into transactional mode. So I'm transacting, I'm trying to, you know, I'm negotiating with, with the higher power. And of course, once she's gone, and you finally get over the anger, you're left with the concept of someone, you know, an atheist has no concept of who they talk about, they don't need to talk to anyone because they're not there. I now had introduced the concept to someone and I went on a spiritually seek— a seeking spiritual path, right? So, and I tried all sorts of things, everything from, you know, New Age experiences and clairvoyance and you name it. I had a wonderful time. And I just found an amazing resource of people with different ideas and different, you know, different wisdoms, right? Um, I end up becoming a Christian, um, and that's a very, very powerful place for me. Very strange place for the world to look at me now. So many people in my life, like my kids, are completely, you know, amused by the journey. But, um, um, it, it's about, uh, the place I got to allows me to walking faith, which is— faith is the belief without evidence. And there's such a freedom in that because then I can decide to accept things in a way that feels, you know, not speculative. I feel confident about having— being able to, you know, accept things that are important to me moving on, right? Like, you know, um, fear of death, right? You know, stuff like that. Um, because having gone through the experience, one of the things you do freak out about is, is the, this peace, uh, on my, in, in my wife's face after the whole process of dying, right? You know, I just said, I don't really, you know, I don't think that's going to be a good experience. Right. So I now learned that the mechanics of it, it's much, you know, that whole end of life thing is, is actually mechanically required for a peaceful death.

Aveline Clark (Host) · 46:05

Mm-hmm.

John Milham (Guest) · 46:06

But, um, it's, yeah, I didn't wanna, anyway, I, you know, without getting morbid, it, it's quite amazing, right? I'm allowed to explore, uh, my concept of spirituality with a degree of freedom because faith doesn't need evidence. Right. So that's where I am. Um, um, and I don't mind other people being where they are. Right.

Aveline Clark (Host) · 46:28

So, spread them in that. Yeah.

John Milham (Guest) · 46:30

But that's all part of the seeking, right? I just had experiences. That was a, an amazing experience for me. Uh, that faith experience as well as many others, which I, I have loved learning from as I've gone along.

Aveline Clark (Host) · 46:45

It's, it's really remarkable to me, John, that you've It's, it's hearing you speak about the depths of the tragedy, right? The injustice and the pain and everything that you've gone through. But you've spoken so eloquently about the challenges that you went through on a daily basis and how you navigated the grief. And it's really evident to me that you are passionate about life. And today, and I'm sure it was very different 15, 14, 13 years ago. Um, so I can see that you've developed, you've found, uncovered inside of you this passion. Yeah. You've got this seeker in you and obviously that's, you know, something that drives you now. It's something that's come out of this. Would that be right?

John Milham (Guest) · 47:36

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and the further I've gone down that path. The more passionate I've become, right? Um, the more amazing I discover, you know, do you know what I think it's about realizing the beauty, like, yeah, like, um, Neil Young says it in his song, you know, like it's all the freaky people that make the beauty of the world. And I'm just, I just think that's amazing right now because it's become true that, you know, as being as someone who has lost is based on the normal distribution curve. Now I've now gone to the extreme in so many ways. Uh, I've let go of the need to get back and I've started to look at everybody around me and just really start to enjoy how, um, that diversity can actually inspire me instead of scare me.

Aveline Clark (Host) · 48:32

Mm-hmm. Right.

John Milham (Guest) · 48:34

You know, um, And not only that, that other people's pain, I have a part to play in helping them. Maya Angelou says, if you want to find your purpose, look to your wound, right? So, um, I say that a lot because that inspires me to remember now I have a purp— I have a— men love a mission. David Deida says, you know, man must have a mission in, uh, Way of the Superior Man. And I, I, I embrace that idea, right? What's my mission now? Well, it's tied to my values, which is, you know, um, love and, you know, versus, you know, versus indifference, right? You know, um, how I, my, I see myself becoming as a seeking a bit, being a better bloke is actually about being more patient, more tolerant, more accepting, not about, you know, being stronger, faster, fitter, higher. Right. Um, it's now about being, um, it's a simple test. When I'm able to truly enjoy someone's win as much as I enjoy my own, I know I've reached another level of, of, of human capacity. Right. When I don't feel a touch of envy or a touch of jealousy or a touch of, you know, like when that all that's out of me. Then I'll know. I'll probably be long dead by, you know, before I get there. But, um, that's what I now seek, right? The excellence in living for me is now being contributor, not a, not a taker. Um, and I'm inspired to, to help. So I found a simple message, and that is, man, life is tough, right? But that's the beauty of it, right? If you want a beige existence, then, um, you know, you can, you know, you can become wealthy and boring, right? And try to jump off cliffs to find your inspiration. Guess what? The real challenge, the real extreme living is down here working with people that you would not normally feel comfortable with, or sitting when you want to do nothing but run away because someone is sitting there telling you a story that is so tragic, um, it feels like a hot stove emotionally, and yet you hold your space. That's a warrior in my mind, as opposed to someone who, you know, is proficient in nunchucks, right? Um, so that's what I now seek, to be that emotional warrior, to be that mindful warrior not because I want a, you know, a website, right? But because I want, I want somebody to walk away feeling, you know, like just walking away feeling like they're actually got hope tomorrow, or, you know, they might be able to do like I was lucky enough to have done and just keep bumping along. I've got all the problems in the world, and yet I haven't got a single problem.

Aveline Clark (Host) · 51:45

I love that. What a, what a beautiful way to describe, I guess, the gold that you've mined through this last 15 years. Uh, you know, I don't need to ask the questions or for the audience to sort of wonder what did you take away. You've just explained exactly what you've got from this, and it sounds like you are a changed man for the better. Humbled, wise, still on a journey, and giving back. Which is just beautiful.

John Milham (Guest) · 52:12

Everything's back. Can I add just one last thought? Uh, the, um, and this you get probably the single most significant piece of wisdom that I was gifted along the way was, um, when I suddenly realized that the worst thing that ever happened to me that I would take back in an instant, regardless of what it costs, has led to so much in my life that I wouldn't give up for anything, right? And that takes away— you tell me what's good and you tell me what's bad, and I tell you it's both of them are meaningless. What they are is the life that I've responded to contains the gift, right? I, you know, I have no money, I could be homeless next week, I'm the richest man in the world, right? And like, you You know, my kids are an absolute marvel and a gift to me every day. And I sat down last week and enjoyed every moment of being around them, except the one where I said, I, I, I'm not, I don't get this enough. Right. And yet as a corporate high flyer, I spent more time away from them than with them. I'd never be in this position if I was there. So I just know that good and bad's irrelevant. Um, you know, there are other— there are other ways to live.

Aveline Clark (Host) · 53:35

If there was someone going through a similar situation, John, you got a piece of advice for them? Anything you'd like to say?

John Milham (Guest) · 53:46

Next to you, maybe on the bus, maybe on the sideline of the— of your kids' game, maybe in 3 cubicles away, you know, uh, maybe across the coffee table, you know, at a coffee shop, is someone who contains wisdom you need and that will change your life. Conversations are the currency of growth, right? Uh, and you will grow the more quality conversation you have. So the next time you say, how you going? And somebody says fine, ask the next level of a question down, saying, oh, fine, what, what makes you fine today? Tell me about you. When we do that and we, we find the people we're meant to talk to, and when we find the people we're meant to talk to, we learn the things we're meant to learn. Providence is there, it's on the ground. It's been gifted to us by whatever higher power we look to. All we need to do is open our bloody eyes and have a look and pick it up. And that means in connecting, like giving up the idea that we're the center of the universe and trying to seek that center by just starting to open yourself up to, to the wisdom that other people have. I don't know if that, does that make sense?

Aveline Clark (Host) · 55:17

Absolutely. Really does. Thank you, John. I want to thank you for sharing your story with me today. Um, I've loved every second of it, and I hope our listeners have gotten something really precious to, to take away from this.

John Milham (Guest) · 55:35

So thank you for offering the platform. I, I really enjoy, um, being able to, um, to offer whatever, you know, whatever stuff's there. And all I would say is, you know, I encourage people to reach out and, you know, find help with us or find help with, you know, on the person next to them on the bus.

Aveline Clark (Host) · 55:59

Thank you so much, John.

John Milham (Guest) · 56:01

Good on you.

Aveline Clark (Host) · 56:02

Cheers.

John Milham (Guest) · 56:03

Thank you.

Aveline Clark (Host) · 56:09

We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Katsugi Heroes. Please like and share the show to your friends so we can get this out to even more people. If you have a story you'd like to share with us, please reach out using the contact details below. And join us next week for our next Heroes story. Until then, keep being you, and remember that we are all heroes in our own unique way.

John Milham (Guest) · 56:36

Only when it's broken Only when it's broken. When it hits you in the middle of the night and the truth burns so bright. Only when it's broken. Only when it's broken. Take pride in this cry. It's only for tonight, and then you rise. Only when you're broken. Only when you're broken. Only when you're broken.

Kintsugi Heroes Global Launch

Overview

Chapters

Before the fracture

The diagnosis

Learning he was never a grown-up alone

The strange circle of grief

Sitting alone at 3am

The moment love revealed itself

Three kids and no idea what to do

Two years of pretending at work

The first anxiety attack

What actually saved him

In John Milham's words

John Milham, today

Common questions

Is this a true story?

What organisation produced this?

What did John Milham learn from this experience?

What would John Milham want listeners to know?

What helped John Milham most along the way?

What would John Milham tell someone going through something similar?

Transcript

Before the fracture

Support

Karen Humphries' Unique Journey Through Chronic Illness

Finding Strength After Setbacks with Mark Berridge

From chasing promotions to a life built with purpose and authenticity with James Pearson

What topics does this episode cover?

The diagnosis

Learning he was never a grown-up alone

The strange circle of grief

Sitting alone at 3am

The moment love revealed itself

Three kids and no idea what to do

Two years of pretending at work

The first anxiety attack

What actually saved him