Kate de Jong · 44 min
After two miscarriages and a decade of chronic stress as a consulting engineer, Kate de Jong finally stopped wearing the mask, and rebuilt her life, her health, and her calling from the ground up.
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For 35 years, Kate de Jong wore a mask so well that no one could see the cost. She climbed the corporate ladder as a consulting engineer in Perth, winning bids and managing client relationships, all while her body kept score of the stress. The anxiety was relentless, the insomnia chronic, the colds endless. She was doing everything right on paper, until two miscarriages in two years showed her she couldn't keep doing it at all.
The second loss broke something in her that the first one had bent. She couldn't put the mask back on. So she took a month off, sat by the beach one morning, and felt something shift. Watching an Irish backpacker move through a cafe with ease and lightness, Kate realised she hadn't felt that way since her early twenties. In a moment of clarity, a single word dropped into her mind: give up. Not as defeat, but as permission to stop. She went home and told her husband she was quitting her career. He resisted until a job offer came through that changed everything. Paris for two years, then South Korea for four. Once the financial pressure lifted, she fell pregnant. Jack was born in Paris. Leo followed in South Korea.
What Kate had buried at 18, when her father steered her away from journalism and Italian toward the security of engineering, finally had room to surface. She trained as a coach, then as a business mentor, and built Inspired Business to help female founders launch companies outside the corporate system. Every thread of her earlier life, the languages she loved, the relationships she knew how to build, the writing that always felt effortless, wove itself into something true. The gold wasn't in the cracks of her breaking. It was in what she chose to do after.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses grief & loss, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au • GriefLine: 1300 845 745 · griefline.org.au
“I was climbing that ladder that I realised was up against the wrong building.”
“The mask couldn't even put it on anymore. It just took so much energy to wear that mask. And I think that was the point that I just broke.”
“It's literally making me sick and I can't fall pregnant while I'm trying to do this.”
The hero, today
Your body is sending you a message through physical symptoms, and the cost of ignoring it is far higher than the disruption of listening to what it says. Finding a good therapist to help you make sense of what is happening is not a luxury; it is essential when your life is trying to redirect you. The skills and insights you pick up along the way, even in work you later leave, are all threads that weave together into something that prepares you for what comes next. You do not have to be far ahead to mentor someone else; you only need to be one step further along the path than they are. The choice to please yourself instead of others will cause real upheaval, but that external conflict is where the gold is, because it lets you realign your life to what is true for you.
Yes. Kate de Jong is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Your body is sending you a message through physical symptoms, and the cost of ignoring it is far higher than the disruption of listening to what it says.
Finding a good therapist to help you make sense of what is happening is not a luxury; it is essential when your life is trying to redirect you.
The skills and insights you pick up along the way, even in work you later leave, are all threads that weave together into something that prepares you for what comes next.
You do not have to be far ahead to mentor someone else; you only need to be one step further along the path than they are.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 00:03
Welcome to the Grit Diaries with Mon and Maz, a place where we share real stories meets real transformation. Each episode, we share the journeys of everyday people who's faced life's hardest moments and found their way to hope, healing, and purpose. May their courage inspire you and in the world around you. Let's get inspired.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 00:31
I'm so excited. We've got Kate De Jong speaking, an inspired TEDx speaker, author, host, an absolute expert in helping women and men thrive in their own personal business and entrepreneurial story. You will not want to miss it. She is really going to be a lot of fun to listen to with so much live lived experience support to help you on your entrepreneurial journey.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 01:00
Hello everyone and welcome to the Grit Diaries. You're here on Kansiki Heroes, and welcome to all you wonderful listeners, whether you're listening on YouTube or on your drive to work or wherever you happen to be. We're grateful that you're here with us, and today we have the most beautiful Kate De Jong. Welcome, Kate.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 01:20
Thank you, lovely to be here. Hi everyone.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 01:23
And we've got the beautiful mum, we're back in the hot seat again. How are you?
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 01:27
Hey, thanks, Maz, really well. Lovely to actually meet you, Kate. I'm keen to have a chat with you today. Yeah, thank you for inviting me.
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This conversation includes the mask that held for 35 years, six years climbing the wrong building, the doctor's words that took root, the mask cracks after the second loss, ease and lightness at the edge of the ocean and the moment that said give up.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 01:37
Now we're getting to meet Kate. Kate is a coach, she has a most amazing background story, and she's here to share with us her story from grit to grace. And it's been one heck of a journey, I believe.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 01:51
And ongoing, isn't that? But that's life, isn't it?
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 01:53
It is. We're forever evolving. Kate has been working, she began her work out in the engineering industry as a scientist and a consulting engineer. Even just putting those words together just like fries my brain. But, you know, she's been on quite the journey and been a very accomplished woman in this space and, you know, attracting awards for her work, highly, highly qualified and respected in the industry, but was finding that the was just an inner voice that just kept gnawing away at her, but always feeling like a square peg in a round hole. And it was starting to escalate into having physical symptoms that was just getting a little bit too hard to ignore. So there was a life transition that happened. We're going to unpack that today, but I just wanted to start with Kate. Tell us what life was like before 2010. It seemed to be a real pivotal year for you. Can you just unpack what was happening in your life up till then? And what has sort of brought around, you know, a change in that particular time for you.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 02:59
Yeah, so it was a, it's interesting to reflect back 'cause it feels like a past life, but now, but yeah, in 2010 I was working as a consulting engineer in a firm here in Western Australia. I'd been in that firm for about 6 years, worked my way up to senior management. I was in a role, I'd been a team leader of process engineers, then I moved into a client management role. So my job was to go out and win work. For our company. And so I do tender workshops and bid strategies, and then, you know, win the work, bring it in, help deliver the work. And so it was highly stressful. I was— if I think back to that time, I was constantly anxious. I couldn't sleep properly, always tired, always struggling with colds and viruses of some kind, just feeling like I was— and I can even feel the emotion in my voice now talking about it. Always unwell, always tired and fatigued and just this constant, like I was going to say low-level stress, but it was actually high-level stress and just affected every waking moment. So it was actually awful going back to that time. Yeah.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 04:09
And thank you for sharing that. I think, Kate, that probably emulates a lot of people in high-pressured work positions, you know, and, you know, even, you know, us mums that, you know, just running around after kids for goodness sake, you know, it's, we tend to switch off that little, you the nudge that tells us, hey, you know, is this the right track for you? Or are you taking breaks? Are you looking after yourself? And then, as I'm sure you've heard of the book, The Body Keeps the Score, and eventually our body will tell us, you know, we've got to back up here. And yeah.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 04:44
And I listened to your TEDx talk and the comment you made about the Gallup stat that only around 23% of people are happy in the jobs that they do. Yeah, which is, you know, 23%. So you've got 75% of the workforce doing jobs they actually don't enjoy and are feeling unwell. Yeah, and that chronic stress which causes all kinds of issues. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's amazing.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 05:11
And so what, Kate, for you was— just to that point, what were you actually enjoying about the work that you were doing? I know that you sort of had a pivot, but what was actually still the things that you actually enjoyed? About your work?
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 05:23
Yeah, I mean, I loved the, in the role I was in as client relationship manager, I loved the interactions with the client. I loved building those relationships. I loved then, you know, so that's similar to the work I do now, which is helping people start and grow businesses. It's all about building those relationships and working together for a good outcome. I really loved that stuff and building a team around me to, you know, put together good bids and win those bids and work together. Yeah, I loved all that teamwork and And I guess it was the, you know, I suppose to answer your question, there were lots of positives, you know, just around being, and I miss that sometimes being in that sort of professional environment where there's a lot of people all sort of motivated towards, you know, a big goal. Yeah, I did enjoy all of those aspects.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 06:09
Nice, nice. And so they're the carrots, aren't they, that do keep us tied to positions that there are definitely the upsides. And I think that that whole idea that, you know, life is fine, life is good. And it's almost like, but it's enough to kind of quieten down that little voice that keeps popping up. It's like, but is this really what you want? Is this really what you want for the next 20, 30, 40 years? Is this really filling your cup? It's like, because no, no, no, I've got some points where it's actually, I'm getting some satisfaction there. So for you, you noticed that you were starting to feel unwell and you kept trying to turn the volume down. What for you was the kicker that in 2010 you had a crisis? What was happening at that time, Kate?
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 07:02
Well, I was 30 in 2010. I was 30. Hang on, no, I was 35. I don't remember how old I was.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 07:10
I'm trying to go back to that time.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 07:15
Yeah. So it's 15 years ago. Yeah. I just turned 50. So I was 35 and we had been trying to fall pregnant for years. And I can feel the emotion again. And so I think, oh, we really struggled to even fall pregnant in the first place. And I know now in hindsight, it was because of the stress of my job and And you know, the body's not in a nurturing state when you're, you know, in this sort of corporate stress. So took a long time to fall pregnant. When we finally did fall pregnant, we lost the baby at 12 weeks. And that was probably the longest 12 weeks of my life. 'Cause you know, I was so fearful because a doctor actually said to me, oh, you're an old mum. And just so you know, what'd he say? 3 out of 4 pregnancies at this age miscarry. And he planted that seed in my head. Wow. I planted that seed in my brain and I couldn't get rid of it and I was so fearful. And then of course that's what ended up happening.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 08:13
Kate, they actually, there's been some research just to your point about the actual delivery of news coming from a person in a position of power and the perceived expert. So in this case, the medical profession and just how much that actually plays a role in people's recovery, in people's prognosis and situation. So you're an absolute testament. Once you plant that seed and the delivery, delivery without empathy, delivery without compassion, you know, and just, you know, how, you know, what information a person is actually needing and wanting as well.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 08:53
Yeah. Oh, I found that whole experience horrific. And then the whole miscarriage part, how they treat you when you've you've miscarried, the total lack of empathy in that space. You know, oh, so that was a whole thing. And then 6 months later, we fell pregnant again, but the same thing happened. And that was the point where I just, you know, my knees hit the floor. I was like, I'm done. I don't, yeah, I can't do this anymore. And, but it was, I think at the, it took 2 miscarriages for me to get it that, you know, the first miscarriage, I was devastated and not very functional, but just put on the mask and went back to work on the Monday. I think I had the miscarriage on the Friday, or the D&Cs, you know, the surgery to have it removed. Went back to work on the Monday, mask on, nothing to see here, all's good, you know. And just doing that sort of the mask that I'd worn for 35 years of I'm good, everything's fine, yeah. And, uh, and then the second time it happened, I Yeah, the mask, I couldn't even put it on anymore. It's just like, it took so much energy to, you know, to wear that mask. And I think that was the point that I just broke. Yeah.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 10:01
Wow. You know, Kate, thank you for sharing. They say our children will be our biggest teachers and your two beautiful beings that for whatever reason, you know, are not with us yet. They were still your biggest teachers.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 10:17
Oh, absolutely. And I do feel I'm one of the fortunate ones because I do have two beings with me now in real life.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 10:24
Yes, yes. It's real life, folks. They're all here. We've all got kids in the background and this is how we roll. And what a blessing.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 10:34
It has a happy ending. I often say to my boys that their soul just wasn't ready to come to me yet at that point. I needed to make some changes and then, yeah. So, and that was the point. To the point where I took a month off work and just, because I couldn't actually physically function. And that's when I was down at the beach one morning and just was looking out at the ocean and just said to myself, my God, the beauty. And for 35 years I had never sat and just contemplated peace and beauty. And I'd just been on the go for 35 years straight, like just, you know, striving. So, and climbing that ladder that I realized was up against the wrong building, you know.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 11:18
So that must have been pretty profound because you can draw that out now as pivotal moment. What did it actually do for you in terms of making decisions, or were there a few other things that happened for you to make choices and decisions around that time?
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 11:32
Yeah, no, it was actually one of those moments that I write about it in my book where I was sitting in a cafe close to the beach and there was this Irish girl, she was a backpacker obviously, I think. And I was sitting there having my coffee on the sidewalk and I watched her serving the tables and go back in. She had a laugh with the guy, the barista, and she flicked her hair. And I just went, what ease and lightness this girl has. And it was this moment that I just went, how long has it been since I've felt that ease and lightness? And I did have it in my early 20s. When I was traveling and before I went on this full-on mission to become this thing that I thought I needed to be. And so that was the turning point. And when I sort of, this message just sort of dropped in my head that said, "Give up." And it was just like my whole body just went, "Pfft," you know, "Just give up." And it was almost like, "Just stop the facade," or just give up the game sort of thing. And that's when I felt this lightness and everything around me, it was like I noticed a beetle on the tree and everything suddenly just got lighter and brighter. And then I went home and I just knew in that moment I had to quit my career. And I went home and told my husband, and at the time we're not together anymore sadly, but yeah, I said to him, I I'm quitting my career. And he just freaked out and said, what do you mean? I said, I can't do it anymore. It's literally making me sick. And I can't fall pregnant while I'm trying to do this. And yeah, so he had quite a tough time, I think, because his identity was wrapped up in my identity. And I do think it's harder for men. I think women will listen more deeply to their guts. In my experience. I've been a recruiter for 30 years and I've seen women, if their gut's saying no, they'll go and they will make, often. It's harder for men to be able to do that and listen to that gut and, right, I'm going to make change.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 13:41
And up till that point, Kate, you were saying too, you know, you'd created a lifestyle where, you know, you could have what you wanted, you know, financially you were set. And so it was, you know, it again, it's that hook That it's, if I, well, if I don't, then I lose my lifestyle. I lose, I potentially lose the ability to stay where I live, the circles that I mix with, the nice things. And that is such, it's part of that process of being willing to, you know what, my soul, my calling, myself, you know, how much you want this and it's what you have to give up to, and may not have to give up by the way. To nourish your soul, nourish, you know, what it is, that calling that keeps calling you.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 14:26
So yeah, and I do have a lot of empathy for men because in that, you know, that hard, deeply hardwired provider role, they don't have that option necessarily. And I know my husband did.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 14:36
They feel they don't.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 14:38
Yeah. Yeah. And so him saying to me, well, what are you going to do? You know, and I didn't know what I was going to do at that point. And that's a huge— and I suppose it put responsibility on him then. But then miraculously, and I talk about this beautiful grace, talking from grit to grace, when you make a decision that's aligned with your soul, suddenly things start flowing. And he got offered a job in a placement in Paris for 2 years for his work, followed by 4 years in South Korea. And he said to me at the time, "Should we take it?" And I was like, "Yes." What a perfect opportunity. You know, for me, because there was so much trauma for us in Perth at that time. So moving to Paris was just like total change of scenery, great opportunity for me to figure out what I wanted to do because I wasn't going to be able to work for 6 years.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 15:29
Out of all the places in the world, what lands in your lap? Come on, Paris!
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 15:37
Are you kidding me?
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 15:40
It wasn't in cold London or something.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 15:42
No, you know, and it's a very exotic, very exotic geographical is what they call it when someone gets out of there. It sounds beautiful. It's a lot harder to live there than people— it's actually not an easy city to live in. The French are hard work.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 16:00
Did you speak the language at all?
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 16:03
Yeah, I mean, I speak Spanish, Spanish and Italian, so I spent many months trying to pick up French and I got conversational, but obviously it wasn't fluent and it wasn't native French, and that just irks them for some reason. They just don't like it.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 16:17
It's hilarious. So what is your background, Kate? It's Kate de Jong. De Jong.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 16:22
So my husband, the father of my children, is from Holland and it's a Dutch name.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 16:26
Ah, and are you Australian background yourself? You are. Okay, okay. So that's amazing, you've got all those great languages too. Amazing.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 16:35
Yeah, well, I met their dad, I met Bas in America. We were both working there as graduate engineers in Reno, Nevada back in 1998, and that's how we met. He was there from Holland, I was there from Australia, and that started the— yeah, but previously I'd lived in South America for a year as an exchange student, so the lingual thing— and I suppose that's the, the lingual thing is I love languages and they come easily to to me and that was what I wanted to study. And there's this moment I describe in my book where I'm sitting at the dinner table with my dad and saying to him, you know, I'm all excited because I've enrolled at university with a master in journalism with a major in Italian— sorry, major in journalism, minor in Italian. And dad just talked me out of it, gave me the talk of how there's no money in the humanities if you want to, you know, have financial independence 'Which of course I did, then you're better off choosing science and engineering 'cause you'll always have job security in that field.' And so that was the point where I felt I shut down my calling or what I, like I had a lot of grief around not following that path 'cause I know I would've loved it and been good at it and really thrived. And so that was the moment where I just, yeah, in my book I say that's the moment my flame dickered. What is that? Sorry, dickered. Flickered and dimmed. It's like the flame inside me just sort of went to a pilot light level, you know, when I made that decision to choose my strengths.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 18:10
Wow. And thank you again. You know, I mean, really, when the listeners are hearing your story, we have so many people in that corporate space. And what you're highlighting, what I'm hearing, and what you illustrated in your book, The Seeds of a Calling, is you have a father that, you know, probably had a lot of weight in your world. And to go against, you know, what Dad said was— God bless your beautiful father— but we get those messages from our parents that, you know, it's not the right path, it's not going to be financially rewarding, it's not going to give you the stability, which always comes from a beautiful place that they want their children to be set up and be able to function well in the world and have independence. You know, you create this world that by all accounts is admirable, fulfilling, and you know, but yet it goes to the testament, like you say in your title, The Seeds of a Calling. It will, you know, it's like a cork, you know, you can pull it under and try as hard as you can to keep that under, but you lose the grip because it's tiring. Yeah. And then as soon as it gets up on the top, it's bobbing around and it's like, oh, this is exciting and I feel free and this is where I'm supposed to be. And then I love that. Yeah. And then the thing is, is when you get up the top, you actually start to notice that there's some other lovely corks floating around and go, whoa, you're up here too. Everybody else is stuck under there. You know, they can only hold it down for so long. And but some people will stay down there. So what made you be the one that says, you know, you sadly had the miscarriages and you've made this turnaround, but it's a whole nother ball game to actually, you know, follow your calling to, you know, almost the letter, as you say, ever evolving, but to really pivot your career, look after your health. What were some other key nuggets that, you know, or people that helped you along the way or new insights that you were experiencing to allow you to create your business as you have?
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 20:12
Oh, so good question. I mean, I spent a lot of, I feel very blessed that I had a good 2 years where I was also just to point out that when my husband got this opportunity to move overseas and I felt that stress release that, you know, okay, financially we were gonna be fine for the next couple of years. He was, you know, I was just, you know, tagging along sort of. I fell pregnant straight away and—
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 20:37
Yeah.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 20:39
And then, and I was extremely fearful of course, but carried Jack to term who's now my 13-year-old. Fiery redhead, and he was born in Paris, and then Leo followed. So he's got a French passport, does he, as well?
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 20:53
Yeah.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 20:53
Oh, he doesn't actually, no, but he's got a Dutch passport, which is the EU. So yes, he's, he's, he can work and live there. The lucky kids.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 21:01
Yeah.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 21:02
And my other son Leo, who's now 10, was born in South Korea. So that was a whole experience. But just the, you know, the emotional, I suppose that's the message I have. Is the emotional impact on your physical body. You know, if you're emotionally stressed and strained, your body just, you know, responds. And like you said, that great book, The Body Keeps the Score. There was a whole journey for me during that time. It was about 10 years that I was really unwell as a consulting engineer. We lived and worked in Holland for a while and lived overseas and then moved back to Perth. But I was constantly, the doctors could only diagnose it as chronic fatigue because they didn't really understand the symptoms at the time. And there are a lot of key people along the way that helped me slowly understand that link between emotional health and physical health. And yeah, I suppose the one therapist I talk about in my book that said, it's okay for you to just be. You know, she said, "There's a reason we're called human beings. We're not human doers." But at that point, that seemed like a crazy thought to me. You can't just be. Like, you have to be doing something or achieving something. Do you know what I mean? But I think the biggest insight I've had in that time is the sine wave. You know what I'm talking about? The wave that sort of curves up and then down. There's a horizontal line and it goes up and then down below the line and back.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 22:33
Yep. Yep. It's almost like a little heart, isn't it?
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 22:36
Yeah. But it's like every, you know, when you exert a certain amount of effort, it's got to be counterbalanced by an equal and opposite amount of rest and space and beingness. Whereas I had just been in full-blown exertion mode for so long. Yeah. Yeah. And it's the culture in Australia too. Like they say that when an Aussie stands at a barbecue and the first thing they say is, what do you do? That's the first thing. We always talk about the doing. What do you do? And you might have found this in Paris, but apparently the French and other cultures in Europe say, how are you? So it's more, how are you? And, um, but it's pretty much stock standard conversation in Australia for that, what do you do? And I think it goes right back to our convict days and hard work, to be honest. That's interesting. You know, I think that we've just been brought up— that's how we identify, is, is what we do. Our value is connected to what we produce.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 23:36
And the other point as well on that, and it's something that I say to my girls, is, you know, of course we do get caught up, and it's important for people to feel that, you know, they're able to, you know, achieve what they're able to achieve. But the mere fact that you simply exist The fact that you're here, you are actually still, as we know, a, how hard it is for them to actually land on planet Earth, especially those of us that have had difficulties with having children. But the numbers game of the fact that you are who you are is incredible. So the fact that you simply exist, that has to be enough for you to go into a place of wanting to know more about yourself, valuing yourself and honoring yourself, that without any kind of fancy achievements, and there is nothing wrong with achieving, but it's not those things that you rely on. It's the fact that you're a miracle and you're actually upright and you, you're here.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 24:38
Yeah. And that whole concept that you are enough just because you are being was such a foreign concept to me at the time. Like that you have value just by being who you are. That was so— I think I'd, you know, like so many women I speak to, and I'm sure men as well, that you have to earn value somehow in life. You have to, you know, earn your worthiness and prove it rather than you are just worthy and enough. The whole concept of when she said you are enough just as you are, it took me years to actually absorb that and think it's true.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 25:15
Yeah. And I love that you're highlighting that, Kate. It can simply be a string of words put together that has no— it's almost like Teflon. It's— you can't actually absorb it. And it's like, yeah, that sounds nice and wafty. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Pump me up. Awesome. But to actually allow those words to permeate into your being and actually, what does that actually mean? What does that mean to me? How does that actually resonate? And how does it actually change my paradigm about how I feel about myself? And actually then how you come out into the world. And to highlight that, I think I'm really hoping that the listeners and the viewers are really taking stock of the sheer magnitude of just that. Even if that was the only thing that people took away from today, it's okay just for the mere fact that you exist means that you're a miracle. And also is everybody else around you, even if you don't like them. That's right. So, you know, yeah, so thank you, thank you for sharing that, Kate.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 26:22
Yeah, I was also going to mention, you know, we, we look at a brand new baby and the smell of them and, you know, the they're a miracle, right? And you get so excited when you see a little brand new baby walk in the room. But we're all miracles.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 26:38
We're all that.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 26:39
And it's like, how do we take this lens off about, you know, how do we allow ourselves just to see the beauty in each other and just know we're all miracles, little miracles? Yeah, that in itself is enough. And, you know, with my kids now, when we're talking about careers. And it's interesting because I feel the exact same tension that my parents must have felt, you know. It's like, I want them to do well and achieve their best and, you know, tap it, you know, use their full potential. But at the same time, I want them to find what lights them up and what are they naturally good at. Where does it feel easy? Where do they feel flow, you know? And, and I keep saying to them, just keep an eye out. Anything that you do that you're you're really good at and it feels easy. And even my son says sometimes, you know, because he's really good at writing and it's like, ah, but no one makes money off that. And I said to him, yeah, but if you're really good at something, you will always make money, you know. And because the most important thing is that you love what you do. And I think that comes back to that emotional happiness. Like there's a classic moment where I was sitting at my desk in Holland. I was working as a consulting engineer and it was hard, it was tough. All the projects were in, you know, all the meetings were in Dutch. I had to learn fluent Dutch while I was there. And yeah, it was exhausting. Not only working in a different country, but working in a different language. And a guy came up to me at one stage and he said, oh, Kate, I've got a report in Dutch and I need to send it to a client in the UK. I need to translate it into English. Could you do that? And I was like, yeah, I'm sure. And he gave me, even gave me a job number that I could book my time to. So happy days, you know? And so it took me about an hour and I just went through and translated the whole report. It was probably 2 or 3 pages, just translated into English, done. And I gave, this is before AI where you can just put it into Google Translate. He was so happy and he said, oh my gosh, that's amazing. And the fact that I was able to earn money, that felt like the easiest money I'd ever made in my entire life. Just allowing him to book that time to his project. And I said, it didn't feel like work. It felt like joyful and it was easy and it was massively valuable to someone else. And that was the moment I thought, imagine if you could spend your days doing something that you're really naturally good at and it's easy, but it's valuable. And that always stuck with me because because what I was doing was hard. It wasn't in my, what I call, zone of genius. It didn't flow. I had to exert massive brainpower to do what I did. And I felt like I was a fraud and I was trying to keep up the pretenses that I was actually an engineer when I knew I'm actually more a linguist, a writer, a sort of a humanitarian. And it felt like I was keeping up this facade the whole time and that I had to be really good at it, otherwise someone would figure out that I wasn't actually that good. Good at it, if you know what I mean.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 29:45
Uh, and yeah, isn't it amazing? And, and you just have those touches, those moments, those, you know, something like that. And it's like, oh, sorry, I just felt so relaxed. And, and so how you can allow those moments rather than dismiss them. Yeah, that was nice and, and lovely. Yep. And yeah, felt something, but no, I have to keep going. You're in a space where you could actually allow that to kind of like, oh, You know, to kind of shift things and you always remember it. So then you've gone on, so you've gone and had your beautiful babies. And so you've been over in Paris and Korea, and then at some point you've created your pivot in terms of the workspace and to be that fuller expression of yourself and all your amazing gifts and talents. And you've created Inspired Business. Mm-hmm.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 30:34
Yeah.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 30:34
Beautiful. I love that term.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 30:36
Oh, thank you. Yeah. And that comes from, you know, inspired comes from in spirit and it's about being fully embodied in yourself, you know, and yeah. And because I, I feel that's just the most important thing. Yeah. When we were overseas, I managed to do a coaching diploma remotely and then I started thinking about what I wanted to do and did all the business and marketing courses under the sun. And when we were in South Korea, started my own business and started career coaching people like myself who were in the corporate space but unhappy and moved back to Perth in 2017 and got some help to grow my business. And the lady that was mentoring me asked me if I would come on and help her roll out these programs across Australia for female founders. So spent 3 years prior to COVID running workshops for female startups on how to start and grow a business, how to launch, promote, market. Market, win the business, all the financials. And I loved it. I thought, I love this work of helping people be independent outside of the system. Mm.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 31:40
And that, those threads going back to when we talked about what the positives about the workplace before, and that was about people, that was about interaction. That was, so you've kind of gone, you've been able to extract what was in that part of that work that you loved and now created your work life in and around, you know, those beautiful aspects. I love that.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 32:04
Yeah, and I— my book is called Seeds of a Calling because I talk about in the first part the seeds that, you know, they're like little things that, like you said before, that you notice about yourself, things that you're drawn to, and Yeah, I used to, you know, write for hours and hours. That was something I couldn't not do. I just had to write, and I love writing. And so that's a seed, you know. And then there's all these different things that turn into a calling, but there's— we're all multi-dimensional and different things. But what I find when I'm coaching someone— I just had a girl on Monday, actually. I don't do a lot of what I call purpose work anymore because I've sort of evolved into helping people sort of turn that purpose into a living. But occasionally I'll get a client that comes in and they want help figuring out what should I do. And this girl could have been me, like what she was saying to me. I said to her, do you know I've written a book and it's pretty much exactly about what you just explained? And she said, really? I thought I was the only one. And I said, no, and that's why I wrote it because so many of us struggle with this. She said, I didn't to feel seen and heard by my parents. I felt I had to do this career because I desperately wanted to go into acting and drama, but I was told it wouldn't make any money. And she's basically followed the same path to the point where she's been in America working for Apple in LA for years, come back feeling really empty and out of alignment and trying to figure out what to do next. And so what I find is when you're dealing with, you know, it's like a tapestry and there's all these different threads that run through our lives. And it's trying to find the thread that pulls them all together. And because a lot of people say, I've done this and I've done that, but it's all disjointed and it doesn't, none of it makes any sense. And I sort of say, but when you pull it all together, it's like that job was cultivating this skill in you, that job was cultivating that skill. And underneath what you really want to be doing is this and you're perfectly prepared now to do that. And so then it brings into that concept of grace, of understanding that there is grace. And even when we think things aren't perfect, they actually are, because they're preparing you for the next phase.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 34:16
I love that. I so love that. And I so appreciate you bringing that up, Kate. It's when you're in a space where you feel like, I could drown right now, I am— why is this happening to me? For all those ones that are gone, 'What? I can't believe this is happening again.' You can see that in two ways. One, because you're not listening and you need to take notice. There's two phases, that part of your life. And the second one is, A, you're stronger than you think, and B, you are being— you're almost in training. I always remember in that Wonder Woman movie when, you know, she's a little girl and she's in training all those years. She's getting mentored by the best. She's been put in, you know, as she can elevate, she's She's going through the ranks and, you know, she's just— and they know, they know this girl is destined for something bigger than anything and she's in training. And it's the same with us, you know, this is hard. We have spaces and chapters of our lives that are hard and you do not know why you are going through it, but you are going through it. And reality is if you're alive, as much as we exist and we love being a little miracle, if you exist, you're going to go through hard chapters. So that's right.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 35:35
That's given. And even that same lesson you keep, like you said, keep learning. And, you know, my book was like, oh, okay, so I've wrapped up that part of my life with a nice little bow and that's done now. I've learned that lesson. And then, but no, you know, you keep getting the same sort of, and now I've gone through a massive I think I have this vision in the last days of my life, I'll still be having these little lessons and like, when's it going to stop? You know, these lessons keep coming out from nowhere, but that's what we're about.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 36:05
Yeah. And I know with Mon's life and just watching, you know, what's happened with her pulling of that tapestry and it sort of coming into, you know, the beautiful work that Simone does with the Women's Resilience Centre. And like you, as you say, I love that it's So elegant. Just then it all starts to come together and then you can reflect and go, uh-huh, like the Steve Jobs speech. You know, you can only connect the dots looking back. I love that. Thank you.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 36:33
Yeah. And I also love— Robin Moore talks about it. She's the voice behind Blinky Bill— that we kind of think life should just be this trajectory that's just very calm and it just goes in a gentle kind of step forward motion. No, it's not like this. And yet life is like this, like a heartbeat. And if it's just like that, we're dead. So the lows are tough, but they make the highs feel even better. You know, they make just every day feel better. When it's a nothing day, you're happy because it's not one of those days. You know, so Yep. It's so important we realize that these two will pass, and painful periods are there to often find our purpose. Absolutely.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 37:25
Kate, as we sort of are wrapping up, if there was a woman out there who is where you were at, they're starting to notice, they're aware that, you know, there's physical symptoms that are happening that they've been trying to put the lid on, that, you know, maybe got kids, maybe, you know, just trying to be everything to everyone and really tuning, turning that dial down on themselves, but it keeps bobbing back up. What 3 nuggets of wisdom would you have for that person in terms of how they might be able to turn the volume up on that, to do it in a place where they feel safe, and what 3 people that they, you know, might reach out to, or what would you say to them?
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 38:07
Oh yeah, I think it's so important to reach out for help in that situation. Your body is trying to tell you something. If you're suffering from physical symptoms, it's really important to listen to those. And as much as it's more convenient to suppress them a lot of the time, you really do need to turn towards them and listen. And finding a good therapist was key for me, I think, just Having someone there as a sounding board to help you talk through the different things that are going on and to make meaning out of it, to make sense out of it, to have someone reflect back to you that, you know, the key things that you, you know, you might be missing. That was, for me, therapy has just been huge and continues to be a huge part of my life today. That ability to talk to someone about what's going on for you. So yeah, I'd say So 3 things: listen, get help, and then it takes courage to, you know, to make big changes. And as I said, for many people I know, it's just easier to keep ignoring it because it requires upheaval of some kind. When you take a stand and start making changes for your self-care or your own sanity, then other people are going to experience the consequences, be affected, be affected. Yeah, but I think we said before the show, in my book I talk about you've always got two choices, you know, please others and suffer the internal conflict, which is what I did for 35 years, or please yourself and suffer the external conflict. And that's not fun either because that often You know, it's hard, but that's where the gold is. You have to suffer that external conflict and upset others. And, you know, that conflict is necessary for you to recalibrate and realign your life to something that's truer for you and, you know, allows you to, to be authentic. Absolutely. Yeah.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 40:08
I love that.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 40:09
Yeah. I also heard you picked up on your talk about mentors as well. And You know, you say seek help, so not just in therapists but in mentors. And I, having led a mentoring business and interviewed thousands of people, 27,000 people in my search firm of 30 years, and the thing that really hit me with people that really were loving what they were doing, they had mentors. And we so often aren't around intergenerational family. We're often living nuclear lives without lots of older, wiser uncles and aunts who've watched us grow up, or grandparents aren't around us. So mentors are just so important, aren't they? You know, I heard you talk about a mentor. Yeah, that's been key for me at every step along the way. Even now, just having someone who's a few steps further along or a little bit wiser or even been there, done that. Yeah, absolutely. Mentors are— I couldn't have gotten where I am today without good mentors. Yeah, and I try to be that now for other people. And I remember saying to someone that I feel like an imposter, you know, and, and in terms of who am I to give someone else advice or mentor others. But then she said at the time, you only have to be one step ahead of them.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 41:24
One step.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 41:25
Yeah, that's right. You look at the little kids in school and how powerful it is for, you know, a kindergarten child to be welcomed to the school by the first the first graders, you know, or the second graders. They're only a year above them, but they know where the toilets are and they know, you know, so it absolutely. And I heard, I read a great book on mentoring recently and this one person said they admired this person who's quite high profile and they wanted to be mentored by them. So they offered to be the Uber driver. Can I be your Uber driver? Because I know you go to the airport a lot because I know you travel the world in your high-flying speaking roles. So if I can just pick you up and drop you off whenever you need to go to the airport and I get 45 minutes in the car with you, I'm happy. And I thought, what a cute thing to do. So yeah, mentoring is, yeah, it doesn't, you don't have to be much further down the track. My yoga teacher says there's only 3 things we have to do. And that is listen to our wise elders, tread softly, and pass on our learnings. If we do that, we're living the karmic way. And I, I think it's so true.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 42:29
Yeah, beautiful. I love that. Well, with that, Kate Deyoung, it's been an absolute joy and a delight, and thank you for your sharing of your story and your courage and your vulnerabilities. And you are such a shining light to so many. And her book, Seeds of a Calling, and your business is Inspired Business. And where can they find you if they want to go and look you up?
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 42:58
Yeah, I'm at katedejong.com, so k-a-t-e-d-e-j-o-n-g.com. They can find me there and love to hear from anyone if this has resonated or, you know, if you want to chat and there's something that you're dealing with that's similar to my journey, always happy to have a chat and share or, you know, help where I can.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 43:17
Fabulous. And you've also been on, I think, two TED Talks as well. So you'll be able to find her there.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 43:24
Yeah, just on YouTube, you can go to TEDx Kate Diong. You'll find my talk there.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 43:28
Ideas worth spreading.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 43:30
Yes.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 43:30
Brilliant. Love it. All right.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 43:33
Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 43:36
Thank you. And Mon?
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 43:39
Kate, thank you so much. It was a wonderful moment with you. Thank you. I appreciate that. Likewise.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 43:44
Great. You've been on the Grit Diaries here at Kinseki Heroes and enjoy the rest of everybody's day.
Kate De Jong (Guest) · 43:57
Thank you for joining us on The Grit Diaries: From Grit to Grace. If today's story has moved you, share it with someone who needs a little hope. Remember, from grit we can find grace, and from grace we can find inspiration. Until next time, look for the joy, keep safe, Stay grounded and never forget that there is a strength within your own story. Take care.
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