Laura Gutierrez · 56 min
After migrating from Colombia to the US, then New Zealand, then Australia, Laura Gutierrez discovers that the hardest journey was never across borders, it was inward.
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At fifteen, Laura Gutierrez stood at a crossroads. A school exchange trip to the UK opened her eyes to a world beyond Colombia, and she decided she would not stay. What she was running from was not her culture itself, but the way festivity became an excuse for her stepfather's drinking, a pattern she did not want to accept as inevitable. She wanted to build her own life on her own terms. For nearly a decade in the United States, she found that freedom. She earned money, bought a car, lived alone, and learned to listen more than she spoke. She moved from Denver to New York, from graphic design work to understanding how people actually live in a place, not just how tourists see it. When immigration law forced her to leave the US, she looked for another country that offered a path to permanent residency. Australia seemed logical. She spoke English. It shared cultural roots with the countries she knew. It should have been easier. It wasn't. Sharing a language masked something she had not anticipated: culture runs deeper than words. Australia hit her differently than expected, and she had to start learning from zero again.
The pandemic sharpened what she had been avoiding. When travel became expensive and difficult, the reality of being thirty-six hours away from her family settled in. Her career achievements, which had driven her for two decades, suddenly felt less important than the connection she had let slip. She realised she had been running toward something, freedom, growth, proof, when maybe she needed to also turn back toward home. Now, in her thirties, Laura understands that home is not a destination you find by choosing the right country. It requires time, spiritual presence, emotional connection, and the willingness to be fully there. She has learned that you cannot leave yourself behind by moving. The lessons you need to learn will find you whether you stay or go. What changes is how you learn them, and whether you have the courage to keep evolving into new versions of yourself.
“We never leave things behind. We carry them with us. Wherever you go, there you are.”
“You have to not stop trying even though you want to sometimes. You need to go through the painful stuff. You need to go through things not around them to become the person that you're meant to be with all the brokenness, with all the mistakes, with all the beautiful things that you have.”
“Once you get out of your country is you're never the same person. You're just never the same person. Even if you will go back, you're just never the same person.”
The hero, today
Laura left Colombia aged fifteen not because she hated her culture, but because she wanted to live differently than the way she was expected to, and migration became the tool to build her own life on her own terms. After nearly a decade in the United States, Laura discovered that sharing a language with Australia did not mean the two countries were culturally similar, and she had to start learning from zero again, which taught her more about herself than her assumptions had. The pandemic forced Laura to feel the real distance between Australia and Colombia for the first time, and in that grief she realised her career achievements did not matter as much as reconnecting with her family and her roots. Laura found that a home requires more than legal papers and a job; it requires time, spiritual presence, and genuine connection with others, and these things cannot be rushed or guaranteed by choosing the right country. Laura tells anyone considering migration that you will not leave yourself behind or escape your lessons by moving; instead, you will exchange one familiar place for experiences and growth you could not have had by staying, and that exchange is worth the cost. Laura has evolved into new versions of herself with each migration, and she does not let fear decide whether she stays or goes; instead, she asks whether staying will let her grow, and whether leaving will push her toward things she is not ready for.
Yes. Laura Gutierrez is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Laura left Colombia aged fifteen not because she hated her culture, but because she wanted to live differently than the way she was expected to, and migration became the tool to build her own life on her own terms.
After nearly a decade in the United States, Laura discovered that sharing a language with Australia did not mean the two countries were culturally similar, and she had to start learning from zero again, which taught her more about herself than her assumptions had.
The pandemic forced Laura to feel the real distance between Australia and Colombia for the first time, and in that grief she realised her career achievements did not matter as much as reconnecting with her family and her roots.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 00:15
Hello and welcome to the podcast From There to Here, a podcast I brought to life in collaboration with Kintsugi Heroes. I'm your host, Emma Bellamy, and each week We will dive into conversations with folks who reflect on what it takes to rebuild a home away from home. Today, my guest is Laura Gutierrez. Laura is an Australia-based immigrant who migrated multiple times before settling in Australia. In this episode, Laura unravels the complexities of migration, the thrill of reinvention, but also the grief of displacement. And the quiet resilience required to rebuild time and again. Laura shares insightful reflections on the nuances of belonging and on what it means to redefine oneself across borders, away from family and the reassurance of familiarity. If you are up for an in-depth conversation about what we carry, release, and recreate in the quest for a new home, Stay tuned. This episode will surely resonate with you. Laura Gutiérrez, something I'm particularly excited to hear is your insights on your journey because you have migrated multiple times in your life, from Colombia to the US, from the US to New Zealand, and from New Zealand to Australia where you currently reside. Let's start by the very beginning. I'd love to hear why you left Colombia and how it felt to be away from home for the first time.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 02:12
Okay. So when I was 15 years old, my present, instead of making a big party to become a woman and all these things from my parents, was a trip to the UK. With my friends because it was an excursion that the school offered. I remember this trip made my parents fight because it was expensive, but once I was there and I got to know another culture and I got to experience what English was other than a classroom, as a language to connect to others, and I got to see a different part of the world, my mind just opened. It just— wide open and I, I started to imagine I wanted to be part of that other world that it was just not my own country. So much that I didn't want to go back home. So, and I was 15 years old. Um, it became a goal of mine to want to travel, to want to meet other people and get to know other cultures. Not as a tourist, but like experience them farther than that. And, um, that helped me push myself a lot through school and, um, to finish my career in university. I was ready to go when I was 15, so I was more than ready to go when I was 21, when I finished, 22 when I finished my career. I, um, pushed a lot because when I was in Colombia, I was working during the day and I was studying at night and I actually wanted to study biology, but I ended up studying business because my goal was to ultimately get to travel. And that's what I did. So to answer your question, when I went away from home, it was something that I had been thinking on, as you can tell, a lot. It was a plan that I had for myself, and I was blessed and happy that I was making it happen because at first it seemed very far away. It seemed like I couldn't achieve it. It was a lot of paperwork. It was a lot of, uh, money. It was a lot of many things. But at that time, um, what made me migrate was that I was accepted to do an internship in the United States, in Denver, in Colorado, in a very remote area. But it didn't mind. It was the first time that I got to see the snow. It was the first time that I learned to snowboard and experience just other different, very different things from the culture that I grew up into. There were many things that I didn't like from that culture already. And now that I'm like way older, there are many things that I embrace from that culture. I think I was running away a little bit from the things that I didn't like. And I was just excited to move into another world and to experience other things. So For the first 3 years, everything was so new and exciting that I didn't even think about back home. I, I miss my family as I have always missed them. I think that feeling hasn't changed, but I was so, um, like I just wanted to live more and to see more and to know more about that world that I didn't know anything about that I actually didn't mind that I was far from home and it didn't feel that far anyway. It was just a couple of hours on an airplane. Airplane. It didn't feel as far as I am right now, definitely. So, um, yeah, to answer your question, what made me migrate was the opportunity to work on that internship in Denver as a graphic design for an advertising agency. What kept me there was getting to know more about other cultures, really. Hmm.
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Laura found that a home requires more than legal papers and a job; it requires time, spiritual presence, and genuine connection with others, and these things cannot be rushed or guaranteed by choosing the right country.
This conversation includes a trip to the uk at fifteen, running from her stepfather's drinking, ten years in the united states, immigration systems force a move, her grandmother's dream through generations and australia hits harder than expected.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 06:05
What were the things from your culture that you were escaping from? That, you know, because you were saying that there were things in your culture that you didn't like. I wonder what those things are.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 06:16
I don't know if that's my culture, but maybe it was, it was in the relationship I had with my stepfather. He, um, used to like to drink a lot, especially in festivities. And that's very common in the culture, but you know, we'll react differently. And I don't have or hold any grudge against him. Nothing really bad happened, but I just didn't like how the whole festivity was used as an excuse to act different ways. In a way, I was looking for my own place, for my own way of living life without being subjected to what had to be accepted just because it was part of the culture. I wanted to live life differently. So I wanted to take them away for a little bit out of the picture and just live my life, build my life differently without having to be part of that expected, this, this is the way we do things, culture related type of thing, if that makes sense.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 07:24
Yeah, no, it totally does. And I can relate to. The sense of freedom that you feel when you leave home. You know, you can really get to explore who you are, what you like, how you want to be in the world without being limited by your original mold, your conditioning from your family and your culture.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 07:47
Yeah, exactly. You couldn't have said it better.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 07:50
And I wonder, how was life for you in the US?
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 07:53
Life for me in the U.S. was very happy because at the age of 24, I could afford things that I knew I couldn't afford back home. I could afford to have a car. I could afford to live by myself. I could afford to buy clothes every week if I wanted to. And that all sounds very mundane, but there's a lot of basic things like that, that people take for granted that we just don't have in those countries. Like economically, we're not that strong to be able to have that kind of financial freedom. Luckily, I've always been very driven. I was not gonna abuse the system and I measured myself and I didn't have credit cards, but just having that little bit of responsibility and at the same time freedom, as you said, to enjoy. Made life wonderful. I, I got to meet a lot of people through what I did, through work. I was like living the dream at the moment. I, I got to work on what I wanted. My ideas were often listened to and I learned a lot from the people that I was working with. So my 20s, the 10, the, oh yeah, almost 10 years that I was there, it was great. I Then had the opportunity to move from Denver to New York and experience the differences that they talk about from the East and the West and the Middle America and see how they are very different even though they're in the same country. Because one thing is to hear about it, another thing is to experience things yourself. So I'm glad I had the time to experience that change. A lot of what I learned through all of that was to be a little wiser, to, to listen a lot. I learned to listen a lot. I don't talk as much. This opportunity is an exception, but I like to listen a lot. I learn a lot through listening and just seeing people, like just sitting in a park and see the nonverbal communication from others, the way they walk, the way they posture, the way they everything. From that little instance to understanding the politics of another place. I like to really understand things from the ground up, from the roots. And I guess what I wanted to do traveling was that, understanding. Because it's different when you're a tourist. You, you're just there, you just see that everything's perfect and shiny. And I knew that wasn't the case, so I wanted to find the, the ugly and the, and the, and the nice at the same time. And I, I think I did. I think we all know America is not like this shiny, glorious place. It has a lot of opportunities, that is true. But as, as we have been saying, I just wanted to understand it my way.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 10:48
I love what you say about the fact that when we are tourists, we only see the beautiful things, you know, about a country, but when you live there, you get to see the nuances. I wonder how it was then in comparison to be in New Zealand and than in Australia compared to the US?
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 11:07
So what pushed me to get out, the US immigration systems in the US are very complicated.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 11:15
Yes.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 11:16
I was in a work visa that I was able to extend twice. Even though work possibilities were there legally, a way of continuing there legally was not really that easy. So I started looking at other countries and other places because Once you get out of your country, it's, you're never the same person. You're just never the same person. Even if you will go back, you're just never the same person. So I've been out a couple of times in Colombia. I knew that I didn't want to go work there again because by then a lot of time had passed. I've learned a lot of other ways of doing things and I was clashing with my culture in terms of hierarchy at work. They were not, at least at that time, as open as they are nowadays, maybe. And so I didn't want to have experienced all this bigger world and go back to a little cage. I wanted to keep exploring, of course. And I was looking at other opportunities, visiting, visiting other countries like New Zealand and Australia and offer a better pathway for you to stay. And participate and be, become a citizen than the United States. I was looking for more of a permanent life. So that's what brought me to Australia and to New Zealand. Originally, I only wanted to come to this place as a tourist for 2 years was the plan. But once I was here, funny enough, I didn't feel far away from home still. I got to understand that the world is actually smaller than what we believe it is. Because I was literally at the other side of the world. When I was 5 years old, I always used to think like, how come I'm sleeping now and at the other side of the world is daylight and people are working? That whole concept just revolved around my head since I was 5 years old. So when I grew up and I had the opportunity to go to those places, I was like, yeah. My parents were always encouraging me to travel, to explore, to get to know more. They encouraged a lot for me to learn languages. When you're 5 years old, you don't understand why they're pushing you to learn English, but obviously I was grateful when I grew up, when I was 20, and I understand the advantages that another language brings. And they ultimately had a vision for me that was bigger than what I could have ever imagined. Through all those travels, I can see that they themselves wanted me to become the explorer that I am right now. They encouraged that curiosity. They encouraged a career that would tie me to a place. And I guess that all fostered the kind of nomad that I have become through the years. Yeah, it's interesting.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 14:11
Do you think that they had wished that they could have done it themselves?
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 14:16
Yes, I believe purposes are built through generations. Not just one generation will fulfill that purpose. It's like little bits of it build the bigger picture. My grandmother, she had a sister who lived in the U.S. and she used to travel there and she used to bring all these things that we couldn't afford in Colombia and she somehow opened the window for my grandmother to think that if her grandkids would speak that language, they would have better opportunities. So she pushed everyone to learn that language. And that was the first step of a bigger dream. And then my generation, we all started, uh, studying the language and becoming better and understanding like series, TVs, movies, stuff like that. Because back then it was not as popular as it is right now. So I feel I was privileged to be exposed to that kind of knowledge, but it definitely came with a purpose. By the time that I was old enough to go experience the United States by myself, I do think my parents wanted me to leave all the stories that they have heard from my aunt, grandmother, that cultures were different, that things were done differently.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 15:32
Yeah. It's beautiful in a way that it started with your grandmother being open to this idea and then you finally get to do it yourself.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 15:41
Yeah. She definitely had a vision that I didn't understand, but, um, she gave me a guidance. Even though when I was 5 years old, I didn't understand it. She, she gave me a guidance that became the biggest part of my life.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 15:55
Yeah, you will, uh, probably get to do the same thing for your kids, you know, and the dream will continue or some different dreams will continue down the lines.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 16:03
If I ever have kids, they will speak Spanish. What I want to do is bring them back to the roots. You need to know where you're coming from. To know where to go next. And I feel if they don't find their roots through me, through the origin of their languages, they will miss that guidance that my own grandmother was trying to put into me. So I am proud of my culture and my language, and I want my kids, the next generations, to experience that. Like, I'm not running away anymore from it. I have built enough maturity to understand why things happened in my life. And the good things that I had from there, I want to pass it on to the next generations.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 17:23
Um, because continuing on with that whole language threat, coming from a different perspective. Maybe I didn't do my research well enough. I assumed I spoke English, I have done these things in English, I can go to another English culture and it won't be as hard, it won't clash as much to me because I already did it once. So, in a way, you're counting that what you did previously will count in your favor. To the next stage, and it was not like that. From the outside, they look very similar cultures. They speak English, they might both come from, I don't know, the UK descendant. So you make that assumption that it probably won't be that hard. But that just says culture on its own is a group of people that do things a certain way. Just by being located in another part of the world, of the map. It doesn't matter if they have a language in common, it would totally be a different experience. And I was missing that. And then I slowly started realizing that it was my mistake, that cultures are very different. I wasn't aware. It was just a disruption. It was a disruption. I wasn't expecting it to happen. It taught me a lot. Not only about the culture itself, but about myself. Sometimes I believe what we consider to be failures are not failures, but they're a starting point for you to redraft yourself, reinvent yourself, reconsider a lot of things you haven't before. I went to point zero again to start relearning again, and that's how I should have considered it from the beginning. One experience didn't add to the other one. I had to start from ground zero, and that's exactly what happened. And even though it felt like a setback at some point, in my experience, if I pushed enough to overcome that point, I would see the reward of being consistent enough and not give up to see the great side of it.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 19:39
What was the hardest thing about being in Australia?
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 19:42
Uh, when I understood how far I was from home, like, it sounds a little bit off because it was like, of course I know how far I am, but after the pandemic, going back home was harder. Like, finding airplane tickets was harder. Everything was more expensive. I was used to jump on an airplane, wait 5 hours, and be back home. And that sort of spoiled me. And so when I couldn't do that, I had to go for 36 hours, stop in 3 countries to just to go see my family. Then it hit me. And once you're here for a week, you're so tired, you cannot do much. I had 3 weeks of vacation and that was not enough because out of those 3 weeks, 2 weeks I was traveling. Then I only had 1 week, which is 5 days with my family. That's not enough if you haven't seen people for 3 or 4 years. Yeah, all of that hit me at one point. I'm like, I'm really far away. I went really far away from my family. I didn't realize how far away I was getting from the core of who I am. Maybe when I was younger, I was paying a lot of attention on developing a career, on being this and that, on achieving A, B, or Z goals, and then All of a sudden, the pandemic helped, helped a lot to stop, revise, and rethink, and reconnect. I was very blessed to have the means to stop and rethink everything. I realized that my career was not that important anymore, that I really missed my family, and that I wanted to reconnect with everything that I I have been trying to move from.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 21:32
Hmm. Yeah. It's funny how, you know, when we are in another country, we are immersed and traversed by so many emotions and they can be conflicting with one another. You know, you feel a bit grateful, but at the same time, there is this sense of loss for the life you've had, for the persons you've left behind. If you could use 3 words to describe what your life feels like in Australia, what would you say?
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 22:01
3 words. One would be consciousness. Become more aware of who you are and what you are and where you're going. 2, be grateful. I, I know I'm far from home and I've gone into a whole journey trying to maybe prove myself or achieve certain things, but maybe have, have not taken the wisest decisions, but all of that have made me grateful that in the midst of all of that, I'm not in a bad position. I'm in a great place where I can still grow in different directions and reinvent myself. A third would be perseverance. You have to not stop trying even though you want to sometimes. You need to go through the painful stuff. You need to go through things, not around them. To become the person that you're meant to be with all the brokenness, with all the mistakes, with all the beautiful things that you have. It's just a mix of everything. And I think that's why it's very hard to condense. It's a lot, a lot happening.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 23:09
Totally. I completely join you on the process. I feel like building a life in a foreign country is such an introspective journey. You know, you are alone a lot, so you really have to reflect on many things you've carried inside.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 23:26
Yeah. I often wonder if I should have taken different decisions, if I should have stayed in Colombia, if I should have stayed in the United States, if I would have stayed in different places, would it be different? But then came to the same conclusion that there's a life lesson between all these things. I chose the way to learn it, but the outcome could have been the same. So I believe we choose how to learn. We have the possibility to choose how, but ultimately I think the lesson will still be the same. And we choose how wisely we learn certain things because we can learn the painful way or the happy way. And that's up to us.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 26:56
I think if we recap and we think what is, what is home? So home is a place where you feel safe and you feel comfortable. I think at least that's the definition in the dictionary. I agree with it. Sometimes the uncomfort that being an immigrant makes you feel that this is not home, but then you go back. To where it's supposed to be home, and you still don't find that comfort. And some people say that you're your own home. You have the capability to build your own home wherever you go. Yet it's not that easy to start over and over again looking for that home, like you said. So initially, I guess what pushed myself to move from so many places was seeking for that documentation part, that legal part. That would make sense. I was looking a way to do things right in the legal side of things. And that pushed me to move around. And once you pass that legal side of things, you think maybe the journey is over, but it's not. Because past those 3 years settling in another country, even though you have all your papers, you're okay. Then it comes the stage of settling down and feeling part of that society. Well, for some people it's easier than for others, but a person like me who is single and doesn't have kids settling into a society at my age, because you need to consider every single scenario. So migrating when you're 20, if you're with a partner or not, is different than migrating when you're 50, whether you're alone or not, because you are not going to fit in the same scenarios. It just. A random amount of scenarios that we could not even cover in this conversation. But for the purpose of this, once I got past that stage, I experienced an emotion that I thought I would never experience. I was so worried about a legal stay somewhere else that I didn't think about the emotional consequences of it. And so when the legal part of things were covered, I started dealing with the emotional side of things, which was like, okay, I have my papers, I've done everything I should do, I have a job, I've covered all my basic needs. But now, in that pyramid that we talked about, the psychological needs were not fulfilled. Like, even though I have friends, it didn't automatically put you into a place where you feel that this was home. You feel like a stranger. You still feel that you don't share thoughts in common with the people that really grew up here. So then you start being friends with the people that you have common ground, which are other immigrants. You share more stories and more background with these people. And it is a great place to be because again, that was me. That was, that was my, my curiousness took me to that place where I want to be part of that immigration family. The family where people are curious enough to move places and look for ideas and look for different things in their lives. And that's the people that I connect the most with, though some of them still go back to their countries or leave. And that again brings to your memory like, oh, I don't feel that I belong to certain places. And I've been talking to people that have been in this place longer than me and they do feel it's like home. So that just makes me wonder like, okay. It's just maybe a matter of time till I feel this new place feels like a home. I've now understood that I do have the capability to make a space feel like home, but maybe it's just a matter of time. There's a lot of components for a place to feel like home, and it's not just the base of it, it's the outside of it as well. It's the emotional connection, the spiritual connection. And you being present at the time. Because some people have known they're here, maybe because their job gives them money, but their heart is back home. They're divided. So until you don't find that wholesomeness in one place, I don't think you have a home. And it takes time to build that.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 31:19
I love this idea that you shared about being divided and that a part of you may feel home. In Australia, let's say, while another part of you may feel home in Colombia or, you know, the country where you're from originally. I had never thought of it this way, but it's true. You know, if you have a financial and professional situation in the host country, you may feel professionally at home, but from a social perspective, if all your friends, like the childhood friends, and you get the sense of community stronger in your home country, you may feel from that particular perspective a lot more at home. And I think that when you are an adult, it's a lot harder to build a community around you when you arrive in another country as a single person and you don't come with any family members or preexisting friends. Do you know whether there is something that made a difference though, uh, in your journey, something that enabled you to feel a bit more included in Australia that would have made a big difference if you had known it before?
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 32:29
The keyword is connection. When you are able to connect at different levels with someone, that makes you feel like you're starting that, that bit of home. And even though if you don't connect with someone, when you're in, in connection with yourself, when your spiritual being, your physical being, and your emotional being are in one place, That's where you feel like, okay, I am here as a whole. This is my home. Now that's internally. If you would take that outside, externally, if you're able to connect with others around you at that level, I think you're at home. I think when you immigrate as an adult, like you said, you will always have this little bit of nostalgia about the place that you grew up with. And I think it's a balance about time. The more time you spend in a new place, you will create more memories. It will feel more comfortable. It will feel more like home until you let go, because regardless at the time that you go home, your mind really what is doing, it wants to go back to those memories, but those memories don't exist anymore. So when you go back to the place, you actually might feel void again because those memories are only in your head. So you're seeking after memories that are only within you.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 33:50
But I think there is, uh, something quite magical about having friends that have known your childhood. And I don't know about you, but sometimes I wish I had friends here who knew what I went through as a kid and, you know, my teenagehood and all of these things because they would get such a bigger picture of who I am. They know me today. But they don't really know what I've been through. And you can tell them, but there is something quite sacred in a way when they have witnessed it. They've seen your family dynamic. They went to your home. The fact that they missed that picture, I don't know about you, but sometimes I feel like it's such a shame that they don't know those parts because they would be able to understand me a lot more.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 37:49
Yes, I feel like if I was a cat, cat has 7 lives, I think I've had spent 3 of them because I look back and all my 20s look very different from my 30s and so forth. I'm not scared to keep learning. I've just understood that I have to be wiser picking my options. If that says anything to anyone is I don't believe that fear will lead you to the right place. It just holds you from things. Fear can also push you towards things that you're not ready for, and that you will need to learn in a faster speed to get ahead of that. So it's like neither. Don't let fear make you move to a place where you don't know, but also don't let fear make you stay at a place where you won't grow.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 38:40
That's very wise. I wonder whether you could give our audience an advice or a word of wisdom that may make them able to think of their experience in Australia in a different way, something that you could inspire them with.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 38:58
I think we all have different reasons of why we migrated to this country or another country, but if you're real to yourself, that inner push that make you move somewhere else is the same lesson, whether it's here or somewhere else. Like, there's not such thing as a magical place where things are gone and you can start from zero. You always gonna have a lesson to face that push you to move out. We never leave things behind, we carry them with us.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 39:31
Wherever you go, there you are, right?
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 39:34
Yes, yes, you are with all your good and bad. It's not like moving somewhere else is going to magically change your life. At the time that I started migrating, a lot of my friends did as well. Because the typical story, I come from a country that has always been in war. I come from a country where the economy is not the greatest. And a lot of political things make that progress is not the best. And so my generation specifically started to look for options outside of the country where they could grow best. And that was all thinking on an economical share of things, on a very basic need of covering work possibilities and just being able to buy a house and being able to buy a car. That was 20 years ago. Nowadays, that doesn't happen only in one country. It's not just South America. It happens everywhere. I believe that opportunities can be created wherever you go if you're meant to be there. And we just need to listen to our inner selves and understand why are we really there. Are we really there because an outside reason is pushing us to be there, or are we really there because an inner reason is pushing us to be there? At some point, we're, we're going to have to fulfill that pyramid. And when those basic needs are fulfilled, then you need to face the inner side of things. If you are wise enough to listen to your own self and your own heart, you hopefully will find a way to connect to others and make that a memorable experience. And just be patient with yourself because it takes a lot of time. And time might make you be frustrated and might make you think that it's not worth it. But just one day at a time, the whole journey will make sense at some point.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 41:28
You're right. I have not yet met anyone who has migrated in Australia and has had nothing but a great time for the first 2 or 3 years. Those first few years are particularly tough and for everyone.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 41:43
I was reading somewhere this article, it said like after 3 years, You're most likely to either go back to where you came from or push moving forward because after 1 year you get somewhat comfortable and you might want to go back or you might stay. If you stay, then after 3 years you have the same feeling and so forth. And then 7 years and it's like, you're always going to have this fight with your own self and your own memories. Now there's people that are very strong mentally. And never miss where they came from, or their circumstances were very different and they don't look back. They don't look back at all. Um, but that's not the majority of the people that I've met. We're always divided until time is on our side and we have built more than what we left. And so that balance balances out and then you just want to stay there. But yeah, then again, there's people that like live in 8, 9, 10 different countries at a time and they're just global citizens and they don't even care about which country is it anymore. So I wish at some point I get there. Yeah.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 48:58
Outsider. It might be harsh, but it's not necessarily a hard word. Why? Because there's a community for those outsiders. We're not alone. There's not just one. There's millions. Mm. And that's a common ground. And when we find each other, we make that weaving, that social fabric that will make us belong to the place where we weren't born, but that we now call home. But we are all native outsiders to each one another, like We're all part of this, so.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 49:36
Yeah, we are all an outsider to someone or in some specific context. I think that foreignness is a feeling almost, you know, and we've all felt it at some time in our life.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 49:50
Yeah. It also means a lot of other things too. Like it means hard work. You don't get to be an immigrant without working hard. That's for sure. Yeah. Having compassion for others' stories and not assuming that we're all on the same page or that we came for the same reasons or that we come to do the same. It's like sometimes when you mention immigrant, they want to put you in a box. If you really want to get to know me, you need to hear my story before you put me in the box because we're not all the same.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 50:22
Yeah, totally. I love that. There is such a wealth of experiences. In this community of migrants and we can learn from any one of them.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 50:34
Yeah. And, um, the fact that it's true that this country, everyone was an immigrant. Like you might be an Australian now, but 3 generations ago you were an immigrant too. We have just gotten to it at different times.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 50:50
I love that.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 50:51
Yeah.
You don't have to be in crisis to call.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 16:49
I love your way of thinking about it. This transgenerational way of thinking about life. It's beautiful. I would love if we could talk a bit more about your experience now in Australia. You shared with me that Given your experience in the US and in New Zealand, you would have thought that building a new life in Australia would have come relatively easy, and it wasn't the case. So I wonder, why do you think it was as hard, and if not harder, than starting a new life in the US, for example?
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 24:13
I love that. I love, I love this thought about the fact that we perhaps don't control the lessons we receive, but we control the way in which they come or the path along the way we're going to receive the learning. It's a, it's an interesting thought.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 24:30
Yeah, I, I believe everything is not under our control. I believe we have the control of choosing certain things. I mean, we'll be invincible if we had the control over everything. And I don't think that's the case. Yeah.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 24:45
Yeah. I get the sense as well from what you said that you sometimes experience some form of regret about having started all over again 3 times because it's a lot, right? To start all over again 3 times. So sometimes do you catch yourself thinking, oh my gosh, I wish I had not done it?
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 25:04
Yes. Many times. Um, but then again, it's like time moves on and you have to move on with it. Regret doesn't really do much. You can feel it and you should be able to allow yourself to go through it and acknowledging it because putting it out and saying that you don't feel it, it just makes those feelings more stuck and bottled inside of you. So just acknowledge it and feel it, but don't get stuck in there because again, we don't have any control over the past. Over what already happened. We can only choose what's coming forward. We can only choose to, through those experiences, to become wiser and to examine more about the decisions that we're going to make next and how they can really impact yourself and others before you go and jump into it. I guess time and regret and all these things teaches us the value of stopping, pausing, And thinking if you would really accept the consequences of your choices, and then if you're okay with it, then, then move on. Now, no one can really guarantee you that that choice will be the best or not, but if you're okay with the consequences, then you can face yourself in the future.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 26:22
It's true that I join you on the fact that regrets are not particularly useful. But they are very human, particularly when you make such a drastic decision in your life that has so much impact. Something as well I would love to have your thoughts on is the sense of home, because you've lived in 4 different countries over the years. So I imagine that it may be hard for you to have one solid sense of home. I don't know. Do you agree with that?
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 34:36
Yes. I mean, you actually bring up something that I want to bring up and I forgot, which is like, when you're in a new place and you're this new being, it's like you have to keep explaining to the people around you who you are because they don't have the same memories as you said. If we were able to have our friends here, if we were able to share those memories, you don't need to explain anything. There's that level of comfort where you just don't need to explain who you are, where you come from, what you have in common. And it's very hard to build that level of comfort with somebody from scratch, especially after a certain age, because you don't share certain scenarios and people are not as open as we age, as like when we were kids. If there was that sense that you don't have to explain to everyone who you are, where you come from, every single time, it will feel more comfortable. But again, that's what we chose. So yeah, it's hard. It's hard. I guess it's What I'm saying after all of this is it's hard to find that balance. It's very hard to find that balance. And those are things that you don't consider when you say, I'm going to move here. You don't go through all this just because you don't know that you will have to. It just always looks more simple before than after you have done it. But then again, that's where I think all the learning happens. So. You do become a different person. I have friends, like you said, that are like childhood friends, and they see me and they feel I'm someone different, but not exactly a different person, but that I have somehow evolved. If I would have stayed where I was, I wouldn't have had that evolution that they have seen in me. And so that gives me courage to think that the choices that I have made that helped me grow, even though I'm not in that comfortable space, but I'm in my journey to find that comfortable space, and that would be a whole other story. So it's a very lonely path because you cannot connect to everyone at the same level. It's a very fulfilling one because of the new things that you have learned that you couldn't have learned in the same place. Maybe you're meant to meet new people to pass on this new knowledge, to pass it on to someone who you don't even know, but they might need it as well. Hmm.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 37:05
I was thinking about what you said, that your friends back home felt that you really had evolved. And I think that it's not that if you had stayed in Colombia, you wouldn't have evolved, but you would have evolved in a very different way. Going abroad makes us evolve in a way that people could not possibly predict or expect, you know, because we have to transform into a new person through this migration experience. And thinking about you and your experience in the US, in New Zealand, in Australia, when we think about identity and how much these experiences have transformed you, what would you say? Do you, would you say that there was a new version of you with each experience?
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 42:54
Yeah. I wonder how they do those people who keep traveling and there are a lot of people who are nomad, digital nomads, and they share their experience and all the good things. And mostly on social media, we see the glamorous, great things that they live. But there is a dark side that we probably don't get to see. It's very brave to share your struggles, your adversity, hard times publicly, and most of us don't.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 43:22
Yeah, I feel like connection is a key word because by connecting with others at the same level that you're at can help you overcome certain stages. If you stay in your own lane, you might feel even lonelier and discouraged. And don't find that there's people in the same situation. When you find that common ground with other people, it gives you hope that you together can overcome certain things. And it's about creating that community and that support for each other that along the way creates that sense of belonging.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 43:59
Yeah, sense of home. You're right. Do you have any book book or movie or any piece of content that you would recommend for those who would like to get a better sense of what a life abroad as a foreigner looks like?
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 44:16
You know Brené Brown?
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 44:18
I love Brené Brown. Yes.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 44:20
Um, I think her books, it will be something that I will recommend. I feel a lot of times we go to places trying to find something, if it's inner or outside. Connecting to that vulnerability place, like you mentioned, finding courage within yourself to face those fears or motivations, it's something that is very powerful. I believe that when you travel, when you relocate somewhere else, you are in search of who you are. And doing that work, that inner work with yourself, will help creating those genuine connections outside, then that's what you really need to foster a new home somewhere else.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 45:04
I love that. And I think, you know, something that resonates with me now that I think about Brené Brown's work is not to be ashamed of the journey, because I know for myself that there was a time where I was looking back and looking at all my friends who stayed in France and they didn't have the adversity of the language barrier and all of these things, building a life overseas. And I was seeing them progress in their lives and doing all of these things that I was so far from doing because I had to go through zero again. And I had a lot of shame about that for a while. I felt like I was behind. And at some point, my view on it shifted and I became proud of the journey because it was not an easy one. A lot of people had it a lot worse than I did, but I think there is a power about being proud of your journey, no matter how difficult it is.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 46:08
Yes, because every scenario that we go through, even though it might be similar, is very different and every person might feel very different. And acknowledging those differences to give power to your own story and be proud of it. Like you said, I felt the same as well. And there were times where I thought like, maybe if I go back, everything will be easier. And then you go back and you find out that things are not just easier. Things are just the way they need to be and you just need to learn something out of it. That's it. Some people think that because I'm in Australia, then I'm a millionaire now. And then it's like, that's not the case because I still have to live, have to pay bills, have to do the same. Like you were saying, social media, I could portray one thing, but the reality is another. So I would just invite everyone to become real with their journeys because that's where the power is. That's where we can connect. You learn from what you hear, from what you see, but if you're not brave enough to put it out there, You might be denying the possibility from someone else to learn from it. It takes a lot to, to be real. It takes a lot of inner work. It's a whole journey. It needs a lot of work. It needs a lot of patience. It needs a lot of compassion to the self and to others.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 47:34
Do you have a person in your community who's an immigrant as well? Who really inspired you and you'd like to hear on the podcast?
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 47:45
There's many people that I have met along my journey. I mean, you know, Ian, when I connected with him, I was in a very vulnerable place and he was, he was very kind. I think one of the special powers that people have to make others feel better and more comfortable is kindness. It can go a long way. When I connected to him, he was like, oh, you shouldn't feel like that. We're all immigrants here. Even though I have heard that sentence for a long time, I heard it like a marketing piece. I didn't hear it had the power that it really has. I would like to hear his story.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 48:30
For those who do not know who Ian is, because we didn't mention his surname, it's Ian Westmoreland, the CEO of Kintsugi Heroes. And I would love to have him on the podcast. So we are reaching the end of the interview and there are two questions I like to ask my guests. And the first one is, when I say the word migrant, what does it evoke to you?
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 50:52
And the second question I have for you is, What does being Australian mean to you? And I know it's a hard one.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 51:00
I'm finding my way to be an Australian. I'm finding my way as I connect through others, as I connect to my generation of what it means to be Australian here. I cannot match an 80-year-old person that was born here to what for him or her means to be an Australian. I can never match that. But I can match my peers that have migrated at the same time as me, that have gotten to know this amazing place at the same time as me. I can relate to those that came here and are about my same age bracket.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 51:40
Yeah.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 51:41
Because it makes a difference at what time in your life you experience certain things. Age is just a number. But the time that you're experiencing certain things makes you experience them differently. And that's why I'm like, on my way to get to know what an Australian Laura is. At this point in my life, I haven't been here the equivalent of what I have traveled. So for me, it's still hard. Even though by law I'm a citizen, it's hard to see myself as a citizen. And that part of me is growing, how to do things, even how to call things the way they call them here, because that was not me, I don't know, 10 years ago. So it takes time and I'm still learning and I'm embracing it. It's growing on me. So yeah, mate. Yeah.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 52:32
And I think it's interesting to think that we are growing into our Australian selves when it's not a thing. Fixed identity. It's fluid and it evolves with time.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 52:45
Yeah. And it's different to everyone. I'm pretty sure that if I would go back home and I will ask what is like to be a Colombian, my answer would be different to anybody else there. It's something very broad, but it's something personal too.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 53:01
Yeah.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 53:01
I do encourage people to migrate even though it's hard. I think there's a threshold where you will move forward. And once you're taking the decision to live in another country, just know you're never going to be the same and accept it and embrace it and be happy with it.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 53:22
Yeah, because in the end, it's a great gift to know that you are going to change and you are going to grow.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 53:29
I mean, there's like journeys that are So unique, so hard to explain. You have to walk the steps in order to know what it is. It can be possible to sort of explain it, but you will never live it with the same intensity when you are told or when you read about it that when you do it yourself. And I'm pretty sure any immigrant can relate to that and tell you it's true. And so for, for those who are doubting if they should jump into that adventure or not, I'll say do it. Just think about the consequences. Just think about how much you are willing to gain. But then again, we never gain anything without losing something. We're not losing ourselves. We're not losing our culture. We're just losing that place that you felt comfortable for a while. You're exchanging it for experiences. That you might not learn in that same place.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 54:26
I love it. It's, well, it's a beautiful, uh, word of the end. And I find that your story is particularly insightful. It's just the way you articulate your thoughts. I can tell that you really thought about all of this for a while. So you have now the words and the maturity to express it in such a deep way. And that was just such a pleasure to hear you share those insights with me. You know, I, I feel very privileged to have heard all of it because every time that you were saying something, I was like, oh my gosh, you somehow put words into things that I was thinking myself, but I had not put it in those words yet. So I really found a lot of inspiration in what you shared.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 55:15
Thank you. I feel humbled and I really think you have translated a lot of my feelings as well into better words. It's hard to come up with some sentences sometimes, but through listening to you as well and other people that I have met in this journey, they are the inspiration, not me. We just need to walk on the same sidewalk. Yeah.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 55:39
Thank you so much, for having shared your journey, your thoughts, your feelings, everything with me.
Laura Gutierrez (Guest) · 55:47
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 55:51
Thank you to Laura Gutiérrez for sharing her journey so authentically and for reminding us that migration is not only about geography. It is about the internal landscapes that we navigate. If you enjoyed our conversation, please like, follow, and rate the show. That helps the podcast to be known. Next week, I will be interviewing Jetta Devapura, another Australia-based immigrant who became an inspiring CEO and philanthropist. I was your host, Emma Bellamy, and I cannot wait to take you On another journey from there to here.
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