Margot Strong · 65 min
After building a beloved Apple computer business on Sydney's northern beaches while surviving divorce and financial ruin, Margot Strong faced the unthinkable, losing her partner, mother, and brother in quick succession, and is now learning, quietly and bravely, what it means to find peace.
Hear this story
Margot Strong grew up in Sydney's inner west with Dutch immigrant parents who ran a boarding house and restaurant. Her childhood taught her that hard work was everything, but it also meant living with unsaid things, her mother's homesickness, and the weight of family obligation. At 20, Margot married to escape. After 23 years, she left when staying became unhealthy, losing her house but finding the freedom to run her Apple computer business, Mac and Me, on her own terms. For two decades, she built something real on Sydney's Northern Beaches, adapting as technology changed, proving to suppliers who doubted her that she could lead.
Then came the losses. Her partner Phil died of metastatic kidney cancer on what was also her wedding anniversary. Her mother passed away. Her brother Paul took his own life. Margot moved to Bellingen in 2021 and sat on her back deck staring at the mountains for six months, in physical pain she still struggles to describe. She chose not to follow Paul's example, partly because she had seen the wreckage suicide leaves behind and could not bear that legacy for her children.
Now, several years into her quiet recovery, Margot is finding her way back to something like joy. For her, it looks less like excitement and more like peace, being true to herself, and letting go of relationships that no longer work. She volunteers at the local radio station and studies genealogy. The grief sits with her permanently. But so does the understanding that her time is precious, and she is learning, slowly and carefully, what it means to live it on her own terms.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses grief & loss and suicide & self-harm prevention, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au • GriefLine: 1300 845 745 · griefline.org.au
“the grief sits with me all the time. You know, there's this permanent sadness, I suppose, that that you live with and you have to learn to live with it.”
“suicide is a whole different ball game to dying of an illness you know I think you know for me”
“a lot of the time people don't want to be vulnerable, you know, they don't want to um, you know, they don't want to it becomes a secret within themsel, you know, and the shame and all of that stuff. And they they fail to seek help, the help that they need”
The hero, today
Margot's childhood taught her that hard work was non-negotiable and sitting around was not an option, a belief that shaped every decision she made in business and relationships. She married Geoff at 20 partly to escape her mother's homesickness and depression, a choice she later understood was about needing to leave rather than truly choosing him. After her divorce, Margot had to rebuild alone with two kids, a mortgage she'd lost, and suppliers who doubted she could run the business without her ex-husband. The grief from losing Phil, her mother, and her brother Paul (to suicide) sits with her permanently, and she is still learning how to carry it without letting it consume her. Margot chose not to follow Paul's example because she saw how suicide destroys the people left behind, and she did not want to leave her children with that legacy. Moving to Bellingen gave her the quiet and peace she needed to heal, and she has found that joy now feels less like excitement and more like being true to herself and letting go of relationships that no longer work.
Yes. Margot Strong is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Margot's childhood taught her that hard work was non-negotiable and sitting around was not an option, a belief that shaped every decision she made in business and relationships.
She married Geoff at 20 partly to escape her mother's homesickness and depression, a choice she later understood was about needing to leave rather than truly choosing him.
After her divorce, Margot had to rebuild alone with two kids, a mortgage she'd lost, and suppliers who doubted she could run the business without her ex-husband.
The grief from losing Phil, her mother, and her brother Paul (to suicide) sits with her permanently, and she is still learning how to carry it without letting it consume her.
John Milham (Host) · 00:06
Welcome back to Kintsugi Heroes, helping people tell the stories they need to share so you can find the stories that you need to hear.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 00:19
In this episode, John Millum is in conversation with Margot Strong, a creative business leader with a rich family history. Margot shares her journey from growing up in Sydney with Dutch immigrant parents to founding and running a well-known Apple computer business, Mac and Me, in Avalon on Sydney's Northern Beaches. She talks about the challenges she faced in her personal life, including marriage, motherhood, business, and loss. This conversation explores resilience, change, and finding peace after difficult times. Listen as Margot reflects on family, business, and the quest for joy.
John Milham (Host) · 01:00
So ladies and gentlemen, listeners of the Kintsugi Heroes podcast, uh, welcome to another one. And, uh, this is a little like— I confess to having this one as something that I've pushed because today we're talking to someone who is not just an amazing person with an amazing story but is a friend of mine. And, uh, I want to— and I have not spoken to her enough in recent years. So listeners, please forgive me that I am killing two birds with one stone. That is, we're recording a podcast and I get to talk and catch up with the amazing Margot Strong. Welcome to Katsuki Heroes, Margot.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 01:44
Thank you very much, John, and thanks for having me on.
John Milham (Host) · 01:48
No, my pleasure indeed.
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This conversation includes growing up between two worlds, her mother's homesickness, school on the edge of summerhill, safe inside the amsterdam restaurant, art school in holland falls through and marrying young to escape.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 01:49
Nice to have a chat.
John Milham (Host) · 01:51
It is fabulous to have a chat. You were born in Australia, just by way of introduction. But you have a very strong Dutch heritage to refer to and of course relatives and so on still in your life in Holland. But you were like a creative person, right? So like you went to art school in Holland, you were in the printing industry, right? And then somehow that turned into being a a kind of iconic business on the Northern Beaches in Sydney in Apple computers, right? So, you know, the entire place would know Margot from Apple, from Mac and Me, right? For which you did for what, you know, so long, what, 20 years or something?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 02:40
So yeah, yeah, that's right. It goes fast. So how did you become a sort of small business icon in technology from with all of that, um, you know, creative, um, well, because I was in prepress, which wasn't really graphic design, it was the in-between graphic design and getting things to the printing press technically, I guess, which was all film. And then in the '80s it went to these, um, pagination systems that were worth millions of dollars, and desktop publishing wasn't quite there yet, it was just starting. Um, so in the '90s, in the later '90s when my kids were little, I was trying to do some sort of business from home, so I became an Adobe, and by then myself and my ex-husband now had, you know, a bit of stuff going on at home, just doing some desktop publishing. But I just thought I'd try and become an Adobe Channel Partner because I was pretty okay with Photoshop and Illustrator and stuff in those days. And so I got the Adobe Channel Partner license thing and started selling Adobe stuff. And then I thought I might just write a business plan and see, you know, if I can get an Apple reseller thing. And bing, Apple just went, yes, okay, which was bizarre because there was a hole with people in the graphic arts getting computers. The closest place was Chatswood, and Apple didn't own any shops at that stage. They didn't own shops till the later 2000s. So, you know, there was a big gap with being able to supply people professionally unless the only way that Apple sold stuff generally was with consultants out on the road. So, and that's nothing like it is today, like as far as the scope that they have and the market share that they have. So there was usually people hated Mac or they loved Mac and they hated this or loved, you know, so it was a bit like that. So, so I wrote a business plan that I don't know, just pulled numbers out of the air basically, opened up a little shop at Avalon and the business executive that approved that plan, like, if I ever run into him, we're still mates. He's since left Apple, but he said he just started at Apple and he just went, yep, okay, sounds good. So there you go. But people thought I was mad for opening that shop at Avalon. And that was before the Officeworks and all those sorts of shops happened. So it's just a lot of printers and ink and all that sort of stuff and shelves of software, computer classroom and all that sort of stuff. So yeah, so it was a bit, the whole idea was to work closer at home to be around for the kids. But, you know, You know, it's sort of a catch-22 because you end up in your own business, not seeing your kids half enough than what you'd want to. So yeah, so, and then went to Avalon, I went to Newport when we needed a bigger shop.
John Milham (Host) · 05:33
And of course, you know, opening a small business is like, you know, is contraindicated for like chilling out.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 05:42
It's not. Yeah, I've always sort of had that sense of urgency though. I think whatever jobs I had, I always seemed to become you know, the foreman or do something that took on responsibility. I just couldn't seem to help myself for some reason. Instead of, you know, so I was sort of that way inclined, I guess, you know. So yeah, and parents being in business as well, you know, that—
John Milham (Host) · 06:06
Let's get— let's, let's go back to that whole— now you were born in Australia, but, you know, your parents weren't long out here, were they?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 06:14
Yeah, they immigrated in '56, but Dad had been here He got drafted into the army in Holland, and to escape the draft, he could immigrate to Australia where he already had two brothers. So he worked in Western Queensland for about 4 years. Wow. All the windmills, so, and the water pumps with this Irish guy fixing them for months at a time.
John Milham (Host) · 06:34
Yeah, of course he was an expert in windmills. Yeah.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 06:37
And then back to Holland after 4 years, met Mum, married her, and spent all the money he'd saved on a house on the wedding. So, you know, That's how I was.
John Milham (Host) · 06:51
So you didn't— you weren't part of the decision to come here. How do you think your folks, um, you know, they came to Australia, which is such a different place, right? Especially at that time of the year. How, how did they feel about it?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 07:05
Look, I think Dad was Australian from the time he landed, but Mom was very difficult. It was, um, she should have probably gone back to Holland. She was very homesick and, and quite alone. She was a pediatric nurse and had a strong Dutch accent. So she wasn't really treated very well in the, in that industry. So she soon gave up nursing, and she was quite a specialist nurse. Um, Dad was a mechanical engineer, really. Um, but, um, you know, they ended up working very hard and setting up a boarding house and a restaurant and just working like slaves, basically, you know. So, I mean, you know, like too much work considering they were quite educated people. Um, so Um, so it was hard. I mean, fine for Dad, his parents had died and everything. Mum's parents were still alive and she had lovely brothers and sisters. So she left all of that great, you know, um, family social connections and gave it all up, which was really hard for her. Yeah, hard on us, you know, when we were kids, because she was, you know, you felt that, you know, with her.
John Milham (Host) · 08:10
So she's projecting a lot of homesick and stress and, you know, disappointment.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 08:16
Yeah, she did really. And, um, and she was— I mean, she died in 2018, but she was a very beautiful person and very caring and very intuitive and, you know, took the load for everything. She was very good at being very capable, you know. So, um, which in a way was sort of her undoing a little bit because she was too efficient, you know. So, um, but living in the restaurant in the house next door, and she didn't drive, so her world was very small. You know, compared to her life in Holland. And she didn't get married till she was 27, so that was sort of old, you know, in those days. So, you know, she, um, she was ticking the boxes for everybody else, I think, instead of herself, maybe.
John Milham (Host) · 08:59
Yeah, interesting how, like, um, obviously that, you know, the all hands with the family business and you're living in the thing, so you, you were very closely involved as well as your siblings were with the with the whole business growing up. So is that where your kind of expectation of running a business or your understanding of it came from?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 09:22
Yeah, I think you learn a lot. Like, dad was a super smart person, like very intelligent, very great mathematically and, you know, in that sort of structural technical way, I suppose. So yeah, I mean, they did everything, you know, from all the stock he learned, He read that big French cookbook and knew how to be a chef. Mum taught him how to, all the intricacies of it, but basically he was the chef, you know, mum sort of, yeah. So they, so, you know, that learned, I think that learned, that learned, you know, the capability came from learning from them, I suppose, you know. But also the other thing too is that the work thing, you know, nothing was more important than hard work. Yeah. Yeah., you know, that became, you know, a big, you know, a big priority, I suppose, in how we were reared, thinking, well, you know, it was never like, what, you know, you couldn't sort of sit around. It was like, well, what are you doing? You know, you know, do this and do this on the way to doing that.
John Milham (Host) · 10:23
And yeah, yeah, yeah.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 10:26
All that sort of stuff. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 10:28
Did that like, you know, you've got, you've gone on a very, you know, different journey ever since, right? You know, you, you got out of that, but you know, how much of your childhood you know, is part of your everyday now?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 10:41
Oh, a lot. I think, I think as you get older and you have time as well, you reassess, you know, um, what, why, you know, people behaved and did things and made choices the way they did. And, and also a lot of unsaid things, like people sometimes sort of, I think, glorify the past and think that they were the good old days, but really there was a lot of unsaid things that happened in people's lives that weren't really addressed, and that wasn't okay. So, um, yeah, so I do think about it. Um, I suppose you can't help but think— well, I don't know if everyone's the same, but you do think about your childhood a lot. It leaves a big imprint with the decision— decisions you've made yourself, you know, in your own life. And it still does, you know. Yeah, definitely.
John Milham (Host) · 11:28
It's kind of amazing. It takes like 50-odd years to start to get, you know, the first layers of the onion off, right?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 11:36
So, and also we didn't know a lot of things. Like no one ever said when we were kids, oh, you know, I'll go and get someone not really feeling well mentally. You know, you'd be put in an asylum and, and you know, the door would be locked. It'd be like, oh, they're having, you know, you only hear things, you know, at a distant distance. Like, oh, that person had a nervous breakdown. And you think, hey, nervous breakdown, what is that? No one ever one used to think, what is that exactly? But it was like, oh, they've gone to an institution. You're sort of thinking, you know, um, there was no room for being vulnerable. I don't think you allowed to be too vulnerable. Yeah, you know, and, um, as I read somewhere on Facebook or something the other day, you know, um, this comedian saying, oh, don't worry, my mother was born in 1962, boundaries were only invented in 2017. I sort of think That's probably right.
John Milham (Host) · 12:26
Well, you, I love that idea of a nervous breakdown. Like, it, it was so scary as a kid because, you know, like, your, your parents were susceptible. My mom ended up being in a, and we weren't allowed past the initial door. So you always find, found yourself sitting in waiting rooms for, you know, for pregnancies, right? You weren't allowed in the, in the maternity ward or, uh, the, uh, special place where nervous breakdowns were.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 12:56
Yes, I used to always think, what actually happens in a nervous breakdown? Do all your nerves just melt or something? Like, you know, things that you think when you're a kid, you're thinking, what exactly? But no one ever asked, you know.
John Milham (Host) · 13:07
And the idea is like there was a subtle undertone that you were responsible for it. The kids were always the cause of nervous breakdowns.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 13:16
Oh, kids are always in trouble. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, look what you did. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 13:22
So speaking of kids, like you, you were, you were growing up in a, you know, a family that were, you know, like immigrant, right? Right. But, but an acceptable immigrant in, in, you know, in sort of inner west Sydney and so on. So how was, what was life like in then? Well, you know, like what was your experience?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 13:44
Oh, well, we went to in primary school, St. Pat's up the road, which is the local Catholic school. I mean, Summerhill is very trendy these days. We were on the border. Summerhill was across the road. We were in Dulwich Hill and across the other road was Lewisham. So on Old Canterbury Road. So yeah, so we walked to Summerhill Station. It was, it wasn't the place it is now. It was a little bit scary sometimes. There was always some dog or, you know, sometimes you'd be followed to the station. I mean, there was some, there was a lot of homes in Dulwich, in Summerhill, those big old homes that were actually homes for people with all sorts of mental illnesses and things like that. And, you know, so, you know, there used to be a— I remember in high school I went to Bethlehem College at Ashfield, and sometimes you get the train from Summerhill to Ashfield, and there was a bloke that looked like Schultz from Hogan's Heroes, full camouflage gear on, who definitely was something, something Anyone who was on the train sometimes said that was a bit scary, you know, but you're sort of thinking, oh well, you know, you could just poke your head out of the Red Rattler and get the wind in your face.
John Milham (Host) · 14:55
It was the Red Rattler because I went to school at Stanmore, which is just, yeah, right next to you.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 15:03
Well, yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 15:04
And I'm coming from the Northern Beaches. It was a very strange world. Summerhill, Lewisham, Stanmore, right? Newtown, Redfern. Um, and of course there was a smell, and it was like, you know, came from the train tracks and the Red Rattlers, and it was always kind of slight, slightly carbony smell in the area. Did you find that?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 15:29
Yeah. Oh, I think there was a lot of pollution. I mean, a lot of people used to burn every weekend in there. Everyone had incinerators and things. Um, there was a lot of— there was the goods line just down the road from our place, which is now the light rail. There was the big wheat mills in Summerhill that are now apartments. And there was a few, yeah, a few little industrial things around there. And then there were the planes and trains and buses. And so there was a lot. Yeah, it was. I just wanted to see some trees, you know. So that was the main reason for me wanting to move to Middleham Beach all those years ago. And yeah, so, so I don't know, Summerhill, there was a lot of Greek people where we lived. And a lot of old Australians and Italians. Italians, you know, the Leica restaurants were, you know, bustling with Italians, but Australians weren't really going there that much when I was a little kid. And that's why Mum and Dad's restaurant did so well because they had like an international French sort of menu. Yeah. And, you know, they were flat chat with business people, you know, coming out for business lunches and the dinners and things. But it was a bit of a, you know, a bit of a different world. Then. But Summer Hill, I mean, they brought all the neighbors together. I've just been sort of chopping up some old family films that we had, and all the neighbors are in Mum and Dad's big lounge room, um, and, you know, they're all going, oh, thank you, John and Anne, for, you know, bringing us all together. And Dad said, well, if we didn't, none of you would have talked to each other, basically, which is probably exactly right. So the immigrant people bringing in together all the neighbors, you know, so they were very kind, inclusive, good people that way. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 17:08
So when you, um, so the, you know, like, it sounds fascinating. Of course, we put rose-colored stuff on it, but as you said, at times it was scary, and it certainly wasn't, um, full of, you know, we weren't, uh, you know, you know, living this rich and abundant life sometimes.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 17:25
No.
John Milham (Host) · 17:26
What, what was the best bits of, of growing childhood?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 17:31
Look, I think, you know, our— the restaurant and the house that Mum and Dad— like, we lived at the back of the restaurant. They had a 14-bedroom— Dad decided to, behind the restaurant, build a 14-bedroom boarding house for students and stuff. So one minute you're in Room A, the next minute you're in Room C, you know, whatever. And then they bought the house next door. And I think in the little planet that was, you know, the Amsterdam restaurant and Mum and Dad's world, you did feel very, very safe. You know, there was a lot of things that probably should have been discussed that weren't, but they were good people and there was no, um, games. I think almost naively, you know, we were sort of a little protected in that world from, um, things. I don't know, you know, you were very safe in that world, you know, I think.
John Milham (Host) · 18:17
Yeah, in some ways beautiful, but of course the unsaid, as you pointed out, can Yeah, also leaves ripples. What did you, you know, we've discussed what you did. What did you want to do as you look back?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 18:34
Well, I used to sort of go and sit in my bedroom for hours and just paint and draw. So I wanted to be a children's book illustrator really when I was a teenager and did lots of paintings and things like that. And then we were very, I was very lucky in a way. Mum and Dad used to have these people called the arms guild that used to come to the restaurant once a month and they collected all Australian arms and history and everything. And the couple there that ran that show, they took me to art galleries and things like that and introduced me to a lot of people. They were very supportive, much more than my parents, basically. So, you know, but anyway, that's just the way it was. I remember then we got Edgar going, oh, look, look, her artwork's fantastic. And Mum's going, oh yes, good, good. Anyway, it's all right. It's just the way it was. But So, and I was quite severely bullied in high school, so I decided to leave school. So I started year 11, which I actually started to really enjoy. And then I just sort of said to Mum and Dad, look, I think I need to leave. And they went, okay. But I sort of thought, that's funny, they didn't even really convince me to stay. So Dad said, we're going to send you to art school in Holland. So I went there, but then I couldn't stay because they'd become Australians before I was born and I couldn't get a visa. And then I came back and ended up in the printing industry, which was like a creative area. So, so what I wanted to do, yeah, I don't know, at the time I think it was art. Yeah, just, you know, I love music as well. But, um, yeah, so I don't know.
John Milham (Host) · 20:08
Do you, did, when did you realize that that wasn't going to happen?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 20:14
The art thing? Um, I don't know. I think you just get swept away, you know. I started an apprenticeship. I was the first girl ever employed by this 80-year-old company. I didn't know until the day I started and all the ladies were told to not swear and take down their girly pictures. Anyway, they were like brothers. They were the kindest, loveliest people I've ever worked with. And the guy that owned Heartland and Hyde where I did my apprenticeship, he owned half of Vogue Australia. So we had Vogue and Heartland and Hyde in the same building, in the 8-story building. It was like, The Devil Wears Prada. It was like that, literally, you know, it was hilarious days. And, you know, you just end up in a field and then you work and then you get better at that and then you do that. And, and yeah, the job was good. It was hard work, but it was good. Yeah. And I just stayed in that industry, really. You just get to— you don't really think, oh, I could stop and go to uni or do this or that. I did have lots of letters written by dad to me in Holland when I was there going, I think you should come back and you should go back and finish high school and then you should go to uni and do art direction. And, and I can't remember reading any of those letters. Go in. So I don't know, you know, you're pretty young.
John Milham (Host) · 21:29
You, you've had a talent for picking industries that will eventually sort of move, you know, fade away.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 21:35
Yeah, well, I can remember in the '80s I was lucky enough to, um, where I did my apprenticeship, I was there for about 5 years and then I moved to a place called Color Scanners in Marrickville. On Addison Road, and they were the first place in Sydney to buy an Israeli SciTech system, which was high-end pagination and retouching. So you could retouch, um, an image and, you know, miraculously blow it up to another size instead of having to retouch, you know, 10 sets of film for 10 different publications and get them all to match. So, well, you know, I could see then that the writing was on the wall that, you know, that trade was going to die. But a lot of people I worked with didn't want to believe that. When the kids were little, I worked at place called Seven out at Chiswick, and we, we got time transmitted from the States and put in Australian content. It was go, go, go. It's always running to get everything to the press, you know, and, you know, Elle and People and Who and all those magazines. So, but even then they had a floor of people still doing, you know, manual film planning and retouching. But that didn't last very long. So yeah. I was thinking I was doing 3 days in a row for 12 hours each with tiny little kids. So, you know, I think Mathis was still a year and a half old. So that was hard work for a while.
John Milham (Host) · 22:54
Yeah. Wow. Of course, you know, you're talking about children. How old, you know, you got married, right? How did that happen?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 23:02
Well, I met my ex-husband in, or my husband, in TAFE as soon as I got back from Holland, basically. And yeah, I was very young. I got married when I was 20.
John Milham (Host) · 23:15
My goodness.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 23:16
So, you know, things that you— that's what I mean. Life sometimes— and I sort of go with the flow a lot, which sometimes goes against me because I remember Geoff and I were living together at a flat at Eastwood and were too scared to say that we were actually more than just friends from TAFE. And because he was in the same trade and then so we ended up getting engaged. And then thinking, I'll probably get married in a few years. And then Dad said, well, this was in the September of, I don't know, '82, I think. And Dad said, why don't you bring it forward to next Easter? Because Tante Dini and Tante Annie and all these tantas are coming from Holland. And I just went, all right. So that's how life was. Didn't really think too much about anything, just did it. So I was married for 23 years, but that all fell over in the end. And, and, but, you know, the outcome was of course, two beautiful children, Matisse and Bianca, who are 30 and 34 now, or 33.
John Milham (Host) · 24:19
23 years. Do you think that, that, you know, like, you know, there's often a time for everything, and given, you know, you were just flowing into that relationship, do you feel 23 years, was that too long, too short? Uh, how do you feel about the, um, rate of the success?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 24:39
Too long.
John Milham (Host) · 24:40
Too long.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 24:42
I, um, you know, for me, you know, um, I didn't know who I was. I was a kid, you know, when I got married. And, you know, I made those decisions for my life. You know, I don't blame my ex-husband or blame anyone except for myself for not knowing who I was. And I think, you know, unfortunately I didn't give myself the chance in my 20s to discover who that that person was really, you know. But there were a lot of really good times, you know. We had a lot of great times. And I didn't have Bianca till I was 29, so we went and lived in England for a year and worked there. And, you know, um, so there was a lot of really good things. But I think a lot of it was for the fact that I didn't know who I was, you know. So I think when you get that young, it's a bit of potluck as to whether it works out or not, really. It's no one's fault.
John Milham (Host) · 25:31
You know, yeah, there's, there was no, um, you know, nowadays, like, young, young women, you know, your daughters for instance, right? Um, they don't have an expectation of needing to, you know, there's no pressure on them to get, um, to, to get married or to get into a relationship or push them in a certain, you know, oh, you, these are milestones, you need kids. Nearly like the stats, I think, say, you know, one quarter of all, all 18-year-old females at this point will remain childless.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 26:01
Yeah. Well, if I look back at my parents, I think Dad and Mum were very— they weren't the sort of people that thought, you know, you should get married. And this, I think I latched onto Jeff to escape. My mother's behavior wasn't really great. I was very depressed. I was starting my apprenticeship and still worked in the restaurant on the weekends, and he was my escape, you know.
John Milham (Host) · 26:22
Yeah.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 26:22
And I have to give him credit for that because he pulled me out of that situation of being able to say no to Mum and Dad, which was very hard, you know, you just didn't want to let them down. So, you know, that whole enmeshed, you know, thing that goes on. So, um, so, um, yeah, so, you know, that's— I needed, I needed to get out of that situation and be— but I was just so young, you know, it was 16, 17 or whatever, you know, 17. I started school too young. I was always a year younger than everyone in my class, which didn't help socially at all. And, um, yeah, so everything, you know, you're a lot younger for everything really. So, um, so yeah, so I think that, um, you know, I put that pressure on myself really, um, to, to do these things in life. It wasn't really, you know, Mom and Dad doing it, you know, it was just a way of escaping that household maybe, you know.
John Milham (Host) · 27:17
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense, you know.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 27:20
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, so, um, and when all of that happened, we were both in the business at the time, the divorce. Um, and then I ended up taking, keeping the business and seeing, and then becoming a service center and actually expanding it. So that was sort of good.
John Milham (Host) · 27:38
Was that about you deciding it was time in some way or having the, you know, having the, uh, requirement to start to put yourself together? You know, you said you didn't know who you were. Was that about you, you know, finally taking that job on or finding out?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 27:55
Well, I actually started the business and then Jeff left work and joined me. And then when we were divorced, it was like, it was actually quite upsetting because I had a lot of suppliers going, well, all right, we'll see how you go without him. And I'm going, well, I was actually doing all of that stuff anyway. Anyway, so we had that. But I think the whole thing of being married so young and possibly to the Um, you know, the whole thing is being true to your own values and core beliefs. And when things aren't making sense for you and you're trying to make them work, um, you know, that's very, and it's not working. You're just not getting anywhere. Like I never imagined my marriage would fail, you know, I never had that in my mind. Um, but it got to a point where I thought I can't live in this way anymore. And it wasn't healthy. I didn't think for the kids at the time. It wasn't fair on them. It wasn't the house that I grew up in as much as it was chaotic, but it wasn't like that. You felt sort of safe and loved. So yeah. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 28:57
Coming out of that relationship, right? As you say, you've got a business to run, you've got kids to raise, right? And now you're on your own. What was the great challenge for you?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 29:07
Uh, financial. Absolutely. We lost our house and lost everything and I'd set up a $20,000 credit card to support the kids. That fucked you out of moving out of our home we'd been in for 17 years. So that was hard, you know, but I had to, I did believe the business was an untapped opportunity, you know, that, and I felt that weight off so I could actually go ahead and do all those things, you know, and that was a big relief, that part of it. But The challenge was financial at the time and also having, you know, Matisse had started high school and Bianca was moved from Northern Beaches to Bowen Joey, which was, you know, a challenging time for everyone, I think. So yeah, not enough of one person isn't enough to cater for, you know, all the things that needed to be done. Yeah, that's, that's It was difficult, but we all got through it. I mean, when I look back now, I might have done things a little bit differently in some ways, but I don't know, you've got to do the best you can at the time. Oh, you do the best you can at the time, rather.
John Milham (Host) · 30:20
So you don't have any, no one's giving you any instruction booklet for like repairing after a broken heart.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 30:28
Yeah, broken heart. Exactly. Yeah. And I think, You know, and also, you know, your life's broken, you know, you— it's in pieces. And, you know, it's a very courageous thing to leave a marriage because you end up financial train wreck. I mean, most people do, you know, and, um, and that's the, you know, that's the decision you've got to make. A lot of people stay in marriages because financially it's, um, you'll just be destroyed if you leave. So, you know, so, but I just thought if I don't do something, I'll be sick, you know, I'll just end up ill. So Yeah. And, um, yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 31:05
So plus, uh, you know, so plus is, you know, that freedom, that sense of positivity, maybe some energy back. Challenging, you've gotta rebuild the, you know, the structure of life, right?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 31:17
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 31:17
You dive into work. What, what it was, you were, you were a, a, a woman in a male-dominated industry. What was that like?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 31:27
I always seem to be in male-dominated industries like the printing. I don't know how that happened. Yeah, it's very funny. And yeah, it's funny because I remember my sister worked for me for a while and I remember this Swiss guy coming into the shop going, oh, computer shop run by women, very interesting. Anyways, yeah, well, I don't know, it was sort of retail. Yeah. But as You know, we're selling computers and if people came back in going, well, there's something the matter with this, I was sending stuff to MacMedic who were great, very supportive in Mossman to help do all the warranty stuff. So I thought we need to become an authorized service provider ourselves so we can run a test and have access to Apple's global service system, which is absolutely an amazing system. So, so that's what ended up— we went down that road and set up a multi-user point of sale system and things we didn't have, you know, that were just stopping the business from growing. And yeah, so it was, I always found like when I bought Apple product, I bought off a distributor and this is when there were still Apple centers around before Apple opened up their shops. So as instead of aspiring to become, say, an Apple center where you might get a little bit better margin, I stayed, you know, not that I would have done or could have done that anyway, but but this group that I was in with the suppliers, so people like me, lots of independent businesses around Australia, like the guys in Cairns and the guys in Byron Bay and everything, we'd all be part of this group. So we had a bit of voice when it came to talking to Apple. And then we'd meet a few times a year, but I was the only woman most of the time. Yeah. So strangely, I don't know why.
John Milham (Host) · 33:18
What's different about a woman running a business in that kind of traditional male space?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 33:24
Oh, look, I think, um, you know, a lot of people that are very technical are very precise. You know, they mightn't be great, um, communicating where you're at to the client, you know, um, because they're so intent on being perfect at their job, you know. Um, and, um, and so they like to tell clients when there's an actual result, not when there's all the in-between parts. So I think the, you know, the strength of my business was that we had a lot of females and we had a lot of males, and it just worked out well together because we could be the, you know, just anticipate the agony a client's going through when they've possibly lost everything, all of their data and everything, and actually communicate that to them rather than just going, you know, we're trying to get the data, you know, that we'll tell you, we'll call you when it's done type of thing or something like that. So it was great to have everyone on board that way, you know, and, and it's amazing how many people assume that women absolutely know nothing about, you know, technical stuff. So I had a few staff members for me who were actually exceptionally great at technical stuff that were female. So, yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 34:40
So not just a business, but a, you know, an activism, a center for activism.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 34:46
It wasn't planned. It just turned out that way, you know. And yeah, and I don't know, I think because of the values that we've learned from my father and my mother, that there was no jobs for boys or girls in our household. It was everyone can do everything. There was no barrier that way to ever saying, oh, you can't do that because you're a girl. Like there was no such discussion. So we never grew up with that, that sort of view in any way.
John Milham (Host) · 35:16
You know, working with Apple was never easy. What, what, what's your thoughts?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 35:22
Look, I, I think I always had a really good relationship with Apple. Um, the margins were pretty shocking. Um, and, um, but, you know, I learned a lot about running my own business from them because of the way that they, you know, the infrastructure and just their systems and processes and all sorts of things that were great. Yeah, it was hard at times with, well, the margin was the hardest thing because it was so low. But stock sometimes was difficult. The first year that we had the shop at Avalon, the Wild West really when you think about it, those days, my God, I think we had to buy off a distributor and there was no stock and that was the very first Christmas we were open. This was November, December. Anyway, so I think that we bought secretly off another place in town, another reseller, and got like a 2% margin or something just to get some stock, you know. And anyway, and then it turns out the distributor that we were allocated from Apple in those days, there was sales tax. That was before, you know, the year 2000 with GST. And so sales tax, there was 36% on computers and nothing on software or consulting, right? So, or services. So you're trying to, and then I had, we had an exemption number because we're in the graphic arts trade. So you could buy stock with an exemption number and, and then onsell it to someone else that had an exemption number, like another graphic designer or something. So it was a schmozzle with the paperwork. But so this distributor, they decided to use my or our tax-free, you know, exemption number and buy a whole lot of stock for their warehouse that they could then sell to other resellers and make some more margins. So I think they were put in jail or I don't know, they were, you know, they were being chased anyway.
John Milham (Host) · 37:14
So as you said, Wild West, right?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 37:18
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 37:19
And of course, you know, you made that work for decades, right? So, you know, and became, you know, a part of the furniture, right? The Northern Beaches. But the, you know, technology is going at an incredible rate, changing so quickly. And COVID came, changed everything, and you decided it was time to shift.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 37:43
Well, the service center was a separate business to the retail store. So I handed the service center to MacMedic and they took over that servicing part. Things changed a lot with the Apple stuff, I think probably 2013, 2011 to 2014 were probably our best years as far as trying to make some, you know, trying to keep your head above water basically. And because we upgraded a lot of computers rather than— and that was the beauty of having the service center and the shop that we could have clients that we could truly say, you know, like, you don't need another computer now. We can just fix this if, you know, or you can, you know, later on hand it to the kids and then you get yourself a new one, you know, whatever. So it was really good. We kept things alive as long as possible, but as soon as the technology changed and everything became SSDs that you can't actually upgrade the hardware, that was the beginning of the end for trying to make any money at all out of servicing. And retail really never made any money out of anyway, basically. So, you know, so So yeah, so I think that as soon as you couldn't upgrade things, but a lot of the, you know, we had a few guys out on site consulting and we were very good at that as well. And then I had set up a training school for a while there thinking we could sell people memberships and they'd come and learn, you know, all about their computers, but they needed their own computer. So there was no point having classroom full of computers. And so that didn't make any money either really. But anyway, it was a good experiment. It's risk, risk-taking, gotta take some risks.
John Milham (Host) · 39:20
I think a lot of, a lot of examples out there for the, for people coming in saying, you know, be, be bold, be very bold and courageous.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 39:30
Try not to be stupid, but, but take a chance. I think he probably, I think I always had a gut feeling that, you know, whatever I've pursued, you know, I've always thought this is, you know, it, you know, in my head I think, you know, you do the calculation, you go, it's gotta work, you know, because, you know, this part will work and if that part doesn't work, then this part will work. So you're forever reinventing yourself every day, you know, because every day you've gotta move and keep that flexibility there as well, you know, because plans go astray, you know, they do. And you don't know, you know, what's going to happen in the outside world. Look at COVID. I mean, you know, that just blew everything up, didn't it?
John Milham (Host) · 40:09
Yeah.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 40:09
Oh yes. I shut the retail shop a month before the COVID lockdowns and that was just pure chance. You know, there was no plan there. Um, so yeah, Amazing.
John Milham (Host) · 40:23
There's a lot of wisdom in what you're saying right around the business. But one thing I'm sort of, you know, one of the maxims I live by is what's true in one area of life is true in others, right? So, you know, that all that lesson you were learning, right? The ability to pivot and be adaptable and resilient and, you know, and explore, you know, the good out of, you know, the trouble. Um, was that, uh, um, manifesting in your, in your personal life and the life of your family?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 40:53
Well, a couple of— a while after I divorced Jeff, I, I met Phil, um, and, and he— so we were together for probably about 11 years, and he unfortunately died of cancer, um, and so, yeah, so that was— I wasn't really planning for that to have— I mean, to meet someone, and I wasn't really thinking about it. But when I met him, he was so supportive and helpful and lovely and funny that I couldn't help but fall in love with him, I guess. So, you know, but there was lots of things that he also went through personally as well, which I had to deal with. So, so yeah, it was challenging in some other areas, as you will know.
John Milham (Host) · 41:37
So the, um, the, um The Rescuer was still there, right? From earlier.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 41:42
The Rescuer.
John Milham (Host) · 41:43
That's right.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 41:43
Yeah. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 41:44
Yeah.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 41:45
I got that lesson from you then. Yes.
John Milham (Host) · 41:49
So, um, but Phil's journey, uh, you know, like, yeah, you know, the charm and the humor and so on, that was something you needed at the time. What, what was when he became sick? What was like that like for you?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 42:03
Oh, that was just a shock. An absolute shock, you know. And terrifying for him, of course. He was diagnosed with metastatic kidney cancer in October 2017 and died in the following— he died on April 3rd, 2018, which is actually my wedding anniversary day as well. So, oh my goodness, not a good day.
John Milham (Host) · 42:26
The universe sometimes knows, you know, certain days. Yeah, yeah. It says, no, you're going to get the full dose of this one.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 42:33
Yeah, it was horrendous because he, he had cancer in his bones, and there was a lot of breaks, and it was just like a roller coaster ride. And I'm very grateful, you know, trying to run the business. And, you know, my sister Anne-Marie and, um, and my daughter Bianca, you know, were amazing. You know, they kept everything together, and all the other staff were wonderful, but, you know, they kept everything going. They worked very hard, um, whilst I was dealing with his, you know, when he was diagnosed, I remember we were at the oncologist and I'd recorded the conversation. I asked if I could record the conversation just to go back through. Yeah. And I can remember he said, "You have some spots in your bones." And I remember looking at Phil and we just both knew that was it. The words didn't have to be said. You know, he didn't even have to say it. The oncologist just sort of knew. So it just went, it was just rampant after that. And the amount of morphine and medication and everything. That he had was just unreal. Yeah. But I was lucky, I know, fortunate to be able to get him home for the last week or so, and he died in a hospital bed at home, which was such a great, you know, ending, I suppose, you know, for him.
John Milham (Host) · 43:52
With, um, you know, that we, we talk about, you know, uh, so often about finding the, you know, gift in the tragedies and challenges and horrible times, you know, that, you know, that we're gonna learn from it. And it's that, that experience that is the really important lesson. Is, is that, you know, are you, you know, did that happen? Did you find that gift or did, are you still looking or still looking?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 44:20
Probably. I think, you know, the sadness and the grief is, you know, You know, I mean, you know, it all, as you all know, the whole thing became bigger than that because Mum died and then my brother died. So the grief sits with me all the time. You know, there's this permanent sadness, I suppose, that you live with and you have to learn to live with it. But it's hard to pull yourself out of it. Yeah, hard to pull yourself, hard to go forward. Um, and see some joy and stuff again. That's hard. Yeah, sometimes.
John Milham (Host) · 45:02
Do you mind if I ask you, you know, more, another question around this space?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 45:07
Yeah, no, that's fine. Yeah, happy to talk about it.
John Milham (Host) · 45:10
So it's so, um, powerful to hear you say how hard it is to, you know, that grief is, you know, kind of embedded in there. What, like, and of course your mother and your your brother, right, around the same time. Is it cumulative? Like, is sadness just like overwhelming? Like, as it— as these events occur, do they— does it get worse?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 45:33
Oh, I don't know. It just changes life, I guess, you know. Um, oh, you're sad because they're not here, you know. That's one thing. You can't talk to them. And, um, especially my brother and Phil, they both got along so well. They were both similar disposition.
John Milham (Host) · 45:52
Sparky fellows, right?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 45:55
Funny guys.
John Milham (Host) · 45:56
Good fun.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 45:57
Yeah. And, you know, I just miss them. That's the sadness is that you miss them, you know, and maybe, you know, it's a sign of the fact that, you know, love— does love equal, you know, cause grief? I mean, if you didn't love these people, would you be feeling these things? You know, so Yeah. And Mum, you know, Mum was sort of 91. She was sort of easing out of life. I could tell for the last year she was alive, she was switching off. But, but yeah, you just sort of think it's— they were too young to die, those guys, you know, 60 and 50. Yeah, 49. 49 Phil was when he died. So yeah, so, you know, it was, that's too young, you know. So that was the sad part. But I think, um, yeah, I don't know. I'm still trying to work out the grief thing. I think if, you know, the thing is to try and keep going, not let it consume you, you know. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 46:58
Does the grief feel— again, like, please tell me to stop if you want to— does the grief feel like it— like, I love that idea that you're missing them, but is the grief about, you know, their life, or is it, you know, almost, is it you, you can't, you know, be with them now? Like, so it's almost your life that is, that causes the grief.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 47:23
Yeah. I don't know. I think, um, I miss the banter with them. Yeah. You know, I miss the banter with them. Um, I think if I think the grief, sometimes I think, you know, if some things in their life were done differently for themselves, if they saw handle some things differently themselves, that might have helped in some ways. You know, especially Paul, you know, who suffered from depression and took his life. You know, that was very hard because suicide is a whole different ball game to dying of an illness. You know, I think, you know, for me—
John Milham (Host) · 48:02
different grief, isn't it?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 48:03
Different grief. And also, it's just such a, um, you know, I'll always think, what could I have done differently to have changed that situation for Paul? You know, you know, or could I have done something differently? You know, you ask yourself that question all the time. Um, so yeah, so that, that's part of that grief, I think, is trying to work it out, you know. But That will never happen, I don't think. You know, we'll never really know that reason, you know. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 48:38
You know, it's a, you know, it's a big, um, a big challenge you're giving yourself to say, you know, take responsibility for, you know, your brother's choices and, you know, Bill's choices. You know, do you think that's fair? Are you—
Margo Strong (Guest) · 48:52
Oh, I'm not taking respon— I don't take responsibility, but it does— doesn't— it's very hard for it to leave your mind. You know, they both had struggled with different things through their life, you know, and I think that the challenge for them was getting the right help and asking for help, which they really didn't do, you know, they didn't do. And I think at the end Paul just went, "I'm not doing that," you know, and for Phil it was too late, you know, the damage physically had been done. So You know, it's just, um, it was hard, you know, it's just, it's sad that they never got that. They could never reach out, and it was sad because if they did in their 20s, you know, um, you know, Phil had addiction issues, um, and, you know, you know, that's the— and unfortunately it manifested into, for him, into this terrible cancer, you know, which was just heartbreaking. Um, and for Paul, like, you know, there was lots of things from his youth that were never addressed, you know, that were, um, that he really didn't seek the help. And I think a lot of the time people don't want to be vulnerable, you know, they don't want to, um, you know, they don't want to— it becomes a secret within themselves, you know, and the shame and all of that stuff. And they, they fail to seek help, the help that they need. You know?
John Milham (Host) · 50:24
Yeah.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 50:25
And that was this, that's this, that's part of the grief, you know? Mm-hmm.
John Milham (Host) · 50:31
What, um, you know, like you, you are sitting with this, it's interesting because, um, you, you know, you had, um, you shut down and moved, right? So you, you changed your life, right? So you had that, all of that energy and, you know, your, the drive and pivot that, you know, were pivoting and making things work. And then, um, you, you, you changed, um, places, right? You moved out of that environment, the place you, you'd chosen to, to, to support you, and move up into a very peaceful place of the world like Farnorth North Coast. But, but also, but a very different feel, right? What did, what was, what were you seeking?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 51:15
Peace. I think, and just to be quiet. And, and, you know, the first— I think I moved here in August 2021 into Bellingen. Beautiful. Um, and I just, you know, I've got a nice little view from— I'm in town— from my back deck looking at the mountains and the bush. And I think I literally just— after Paul died, which was earlier that same year, um, I just stared at the mountains for about 6 months and didn't move, you know. I was in so much pain. I don't know, I can't even describe the pain, but I don't even know what that pain was, but it was just physical pain. Like, it was just, it was just debilitating. Yeah. And a few months after Phil died, I was given this beautiful brown Labrador who was 2 years old, who unfortunately died last year. Um, yeah, I know, at 8, you know. Anyway, But he was fabulous for grief. So, you know, that really helped, you know, to have that just, you know, after Phil died, you know, a few months after he died, that actually took me out of— or after Mum died, a few months after Mum died, that actually took me— it took— put me straight in the real moment, stopped me from being in my head so much. So there's a lot to be said about animals, you know, comforting you. So we together sat on the deck and stared for 6 months.
John Milham (Host) · 52:37
You're in the brown lab looking at me.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 52:38
In the brown lab. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 52:40
And, um, yeah, it's the formula for, um, you know, like we can describe that for other people, you know, well, this is what you do to get over, you know, terrible, terrible grief.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 52:51
Just the, um, I think too, the business, all those years I was running every day, I was paying for my Apple stock every day and ordering every day. It was like a roller coaster ride for 20-something years. So. So, you know, I was a bit burnt out besides everyone dying, you know. So, so really just to be quiet, you know, just to be quiet and, and, you know, is, is the best recovery, I think, to be quiet and, and try and be alone with yourself. It's not that easy sometimes, you know, still struggling with it.
John Milham (Host) · 53:26
It's incredibly brave. Like, like, when you're alone with yourself, the thoughts are the thoughts.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 53:33
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 53:34
There's no distraction, right? You can't sort of get, you know, drown out the, the reviewing your relationships with the people who are gone. You can't do that with noise from someone else. Yeah. You've gotta deal with it. So, you know, is that, is that been a, like something, you know, if you look at that, is that something you've invited that in? Is that something worthwhile?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 53:55
I needed to be— I think I've never not lived or had to look after someone or something or whatever, so I needed that for myself, you know. I needed that. And I'm lucky that I've actually got quite a few friends, girlfriends, that have moved up here and have— who have been in similar situations, you know, who have somehow, you know, become these Billingeon, you know, nomads, you know, that have arrived in Billingeon and, and found new roots here, you know, which is great. So I've got an instant community of friends.
John Milham (Host) · 54:26
It's the next version of eat, pray, love, right? It's now like, yeah, escape, look at mountains and, uh, recover, right? Yeah.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 54:35
Yes.
John Milham (Host) · 54:35
Yeah.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 54:36
But if I think about when I was a kid, all I wanted to do is leave that area, Dulwich Hill, Summer Hill, and see some trees. So it's exactly what's happened.
John Milham (Host) · 54:43
You've, you've fulfilled that, that long-term Are you gonna be okay? Is this like, do you think this is moving you to a place where you live fulfilled? Like, the sadness you talk about just, you know, breaks my heart.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 55:00
Yeah. Oh, it's, yeah, it's sort of still, still does my head in. I still sort of think, what was that? You know, it was just terrible. But, but, you know, you listen to other people's stories and you think a lot of people have been through a lot of tragic terrible things, you know, and they just, you know, I think the thing is you've got to try and keep moving forward and, and, and not look back on that stuff too much and try and analyze it, which I'm prone to do, you know. I've got to stop myself from doing that. Um, I sort of help volunteer at the radio station here a little bit, 2 Triple E. Um, and I did, when I moved here, I did a, um, diploma in family history at UTQ. Artists. So that's taken me in a different direction of genealogy. And so I'm always busy, you know, like I've always got plenty to do, you know. Um, but the change of life thing, um, change of, you know, coming up here, changing a whole life, um, I think it's, um, a sustainable, good decision that I've made, you know.
John Milham (Host) · 56:03
Yeah, I love the way— I love describing it like that, sustainable, good decision, right? It's like, it's a very practical— it seems like a safe grounded place.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 56:14
It's very, I was gonna say, it's a very grounding place and it's still very country here. So, and you know, hats off to people here are just authentic and a lot of people do it, you know, they're leading a tough life. They, they, they, they help you toughen up, you know, help you toughen up by just, you know, you look at what people do here and how they live and on their farms and on the, and you think, wow, they're really, you know, Yeah, yeah, no room for that Northern Beaches privilege. No, Sydney, my God, none of that up here, not really. But, um, you know, uh, but it's a great environment. It's old school, really. It's a bit old school. So I think that, um, you know, things are simpler. People have got more time for you. It's a bit— there's a lot of trust, you know. Like, I really noticed that when I came up here, that You know, you can ask someone to help you with something, you shake a hand on it, that's it. It's, you've said, there's no, you know, having to, you know, there's, there's a lot of trust, you know. It's, it's really lovely. Yeah. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 57:18
That's some extraordinary, in some ways I talk about, you know, I've spoken about the bringing the village back, you know.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 57:24
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 57:25
You know, does that, is that sort of absolutely what you're feeling?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 57:29
Oh, absolutely. And I think that that's a healthy way to live. Like, I remember with the COVID lockdowns in Avalon, and as much as it was crazy and no one knew what was happening, it was really nice to see dads at home and dads riding their bikes down the street with the kids. And, you know, like all of a sudden there was this whole community that arrived, you know, without— I mean, years and years ago, people used to work and live in the same town, didn't they? They didn't go across the other side of Sydney to work. You know, people lived and worked locally, which was very healthy. And it's a bit more— it's a bit more like that here. I guess, you know. Um, so I think that that's a healthy thing. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 58:05
Beautiful. Um, can I ask a, a, a heavy question?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 58:10
Mm-hmm.
John Milham (Host) · 58:11
Yes. Um, you, you talked about, so eloquently described the pain. It was real, um, in what you said, and it really touched me. The pain you were feeling was so overwhelming. Why didn't you follow Paul's example? You know, like so often we hear um, the, you know, the pain's too much and then we just want to get away from it.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 58:32
I can understand the temptation. Yeah, I can understand the temptation. Um, I was very— I mean, there's 5 kids in my family. I was always very close to Paul, um, as was my oldest. Well, Paul and I, he, he took me under his wing when he was a teenager because I was very depressed and bullied at school and whatever. And he just said, um, you know, Dad, I think I think we should be able to take Margot to Haverfield Rowing Club with me and my mates on a Sunday night. So, so then some of their other sisters came. So Paul always— he could see, we could see that in each other, you know. I could see he really saved me in my teens, I think, from possibly something terrible. I was tempted. I mean, I can understand that temptation, but I don't know, I think the you know, seeing the fallout from Paul and how it's just affected so many lives. And he would hate to think that he's, you know, caused this chaos in other people's lives, you know. Um, he didn't realize what a train wreck it leaves, you know, in everyone around him. Yeah. And I think that that would be an awful legacy, like, for my kids too. To, yeah, you know, to have to deal with. I don't think that's fair, you know.
John Milham (Host) · 59:52
Yeah, I agree.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 59:54
And I think that he would have hated to have thought that that's what hap— what, you know, what the outcome is, you know, or has— can be. So yeah, that's possibly why, the main reason. But, um, yeah, it's not an easy subject to talk about, but, um, but it's very prevalent, unfortunately. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 1:00:15
And thank you. Thanks. That's like such a, such an honest and sort of like, you know, connecting answer. I really appreciate that.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 1:00:25
Oh, thank you. Yeah. Well, it's life. It is. It is.
John Milham (Host) · 1:00:30
And this is all life, right? And of course, life goes on for you in an idyllic part of the world, right? You've moved from, you know, one idyllic part to another in my mind. So, it's not easy or, you know, you've got the, you know, the village and the mountains, but, you know, that pain is with you. What are you looking forward to? What's, you know, what's left? You know, young, model, intelligent woman, what are you gonna do?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 1:00:58
Well, I don't know. It's taken me a while to see that there's, it's probably only just started to happen this year after that drama to see that there is a point to doing anything, you know what I mean? So after everyone died, I sort of thought, well, what's the point? Like, you're here on this earth for such a short amount of time. Why are we bothering to do anything, you know, sort of thing? So I have regained that momentum quite a bit in the last year, I'd say, to, you know, to actually think about looking forward to something. It's trying to get that sense of joy back in life a bit. So, you know, that's my objective, you know, is to try and, try and keep moving forward.
John Milham (Host) · 1:01:43
Yeah. And what, what do you think now is joy? What, you know, what, what will that look like?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 1:01:49
Maybe joy is peace, I think, in a way. It's in yourself, you know. Um, peace in yourself, being true to, you know, what's what's right for you, how you want to live. And, and also those relationships around you that don't work for you, letting go of them. It's not easy, but, um, but sometimes I think the older I get, the more I have been inclined to draw the line, which I don't know if that's good or bad. But anyway, that's sort of what happens when you turn 60, I think, and above.
John Milham (Host) · 1:02:27
It is what it is, right?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 1:02:28
It's like to go, well, not doing that anymore. I'm not, no, not interested. So that, that sort of stuff becomes clearer. And I think that's the age thing a little bit as well, you know, that, um, your time seems to be a little bit more precious in a way. So you don't want to waste it on things that don't mean anything to you, you know. So yeah, so yeah, I don't know.
John Milham (Host) · 1:02:54
I love, um, I don't know, it's a good place to launch into the next bit because we'll find out, right? So, you know, as long as we're here and we're still, still willing to, to, to, to brave and step out, which, uh, you have role modeled for us today so beautifully. Um, you know, uh, the, the whole process of, of what you've gone through and how you've you know, you've found some place to ground and to heal. It's been wonderful to share that. Thank you.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 1:03:26
Thanks, John. I appreciate your interest in my story.
John Milham (Host) · 1:03:32
It's an incredible story. Margot Strong, thank you on behalf of Kintsugi Heroes and all our listeners out there. We really appreciate your story today and thank you and wish you a million good things from here. May you find that joy.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 1:03:52
Well, I'm winning the lottery today apparently.
John Milham (Host) · 1:03:55
So, oh, good news. All right. Oh, I'll put my hand out for that later. Just for a, you know, for a quick dip. Fabulous news, right? I'll, yeah, I'll pass that on to the crowd, right?
Margo Strong (Guest) · 1:04:09
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 1:04:09
Thank you, Margot.
Margo Strong (Guest) · 1:04:11
No worries. Thanks.
John Milham (Host) · 1:04:18
Thank you for listening to this episode of Kintsugi Heroes. Thank you to Colin Lilly for permission to use Broken as our theme music for this series. If you enjoyed this conversation, share the podcast with a friend and let us know by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to support Kintsugi Heroes and the stories we share, head to kintsugiheroes.com.au and follow the instructions to make a tax-deductible donation. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.
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