Lance Burdett · 62 min
A man who grew up moving constantly, struggled with undiagnosed ADHD and explosive anger, and nearly lost everything to depression mid-career, Lance Burdett transformed his hardest years into a life's work helping others feel less alone.
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Lance Burdett grew up moving constantly around New Zealand, never staying in one place long enough to build friendships. He struggled with undiagnosed ADHD that made him the class clown, angry at things he couldn't control, and convinced he didn't fit anywhere. School report cards, which his mother kept, later revealed what no one had told him: that his brain worked differently. By his twenties, he was angry, self-medicating with alcohol, and exhausted by a life that felt like it was happening to him rather than for him.
At 35, Lance joined the police force after seeing officers who seemed to have found their place. At police college, a behavioral science tutor told him the truth his parents had never known: no one had shown him how to learn with his brain. He worked out his own method, writing things down repeatedly on different surfaces and in different spaces until the knowledge stuck. He became a detective, then a crisis negotiator, eventually leading New Zealand's crisis negotiation program. But success came with a cost. As a detective sergeant, overwhelmed by paperwork and feeling stripped of control, he found himself standing at a photocopier with dark thoughts. Because he understood what was happening to him as a trained negotiator, he recognized the warning signs and got help instead.
A psychologist who refused to hand him pills sent him to a dietitian and gave him a book called You Can Heal Your Life. That decision changed everything. Lance left policing after 22 years and started his own business, initially struggling until his wife pushed him to pour his heart into it for two weeks. Now he works with city councils across New Zealand, teaching people and institutions how to treat each other as people, not objects. His message to anyone going through something with no visible end is simple: it will get better if you keep moving forward, even if you fall back and have to get up again.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses suicide & self-harm prevention, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au
“Be as kind to yourself as you are with those around you.”
“I must have been through a struggle in their life and it has to be a beauty and you've recovered from it.”
“Those of us that have been through it, it's our duty to give back.”
The hero, today
Lance did not know he had ADHD until he finished his third book and looked back at school report cards his mother had kept, which all said he wouldn't sit still, couldn't concentrate, and needed more punishment. When Lance's behavioural science tutor at police college told him his brain worked differently and no one had shown him how to learn, he worked out his own method: writing things down repeatedly, on different surfaces and in different spaces, because it reinforced the knowledge. At his lowest point as a detective senior sergeant, standing at a photocopier, Lance had thoughts of hurting himself, but because he had training as a crisis negotiator, he recognised what was happening and went to get help instead of acting on it. Lance changed the selection criteria for crisis negotiators in New Zealand to prioritise people who had been through a real struggle in their life and had learned how they recovered from it, because that lived experience made them better at the work. Lance says to people going through struggles with no visible end: it will get better if you just wait, put one foot in front of the other, and keep moving forward doing something different than yesterday, even if you fall back and have to get up again. Lance believes the path forward for the world right now starts with each person being as kind to themselves as they are to those around them, because self-care and self-awareness flow outward to change how we treat others.
Yes. Lance Burdett is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Lance did not know he had ADHD until he finished his third book and looked back at school report cards his mother had kept, which all said he wouldn't sit still, couldn't concentrate, and needed more punishment.
When Lance's behavioural science tutor at police college told him his brain worked differently and no one had shown him how to learn, he worked out his own method: writing things down repeatedly, on different surfaces and in different spaces, because it reinforced the knowledge.
At his lowest point as a detective senior sergeant, standing at a photocopier, Lance had thoughts of hurting himself, but because he had training as a crisis negotiator, he recognised what was happening and went to get help instead of acting on it.
John Milham (Host) · 00:05
Welcome back to Kintsugi Heroes, helping people tell the stories they need to share so you can find the stories that you need to hear. In this episode, John Millum speaks with Lance Burdett. Lance is a former New Zealand police officer, author, and crisis negotiator whose journey is shaped by early challenges and a deep drive to help others. Lance grew up feeling different and struggled with undiagnosed ADHD and anger throughout his youth. He faced setbacks at school and in his early career, but learned new ways to work through periods of depression and self-doubt. Lance found purpose in supporting others, transforming his own struggles into a powerful force for change and empathy. We hope you enjoy Lance's story. So ladies and gentlemen, my listeners and friends of our organization, It's another, uh, time to chat with someone with a story that matters. And today, uh, we get the awesome experience of talking to a man who has on-the-ground history as well as academic history, is an, is an author, uh, a former, uh, first responder and member of the police force, uh, has, um, an interesting childhood to talk about that, you know, that I'm, I'd be fascinated to find out how that has shaped you and of course a fellow neurodivergent with, um, yes, a little bit going on inside his head. Yeah. I'm keen to sort of bounce our ADHD off each other, right?
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 01:48
Who knows where that will land.
John Milham (Host) · 01:50
Yeah. So, uh, Lance Burdett, welcome to Consulting Heroes.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 01:53
Yeah, it's my great pleasure to be here and what a great organization you run. Uh, it's, it's good to connect with people that are helping people who are struggling and getting through life as we all have. So those of us that have been through it, it's our duty to give back.
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Lance changed the selection criteria for crisis negotiators in New Zealand to prioritise people who had been through a real struggle in their life and had learned how they recovered from it, because that lived experience made them better at the work.
This conversation includes a call to service, how brains changed across generations, the shift from encyclopedias to everything, ten thousand negative comments by age ten, at 35, he joined the police and learning to learn at police college.
John Milham (Host) · 02:10
I love that language, the first out of the box with duty. It's not a word that has the same level of gravitas that it once had, right? It's kind of, it's lost a bit of sheen.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 02:26
I think it still does. Well, in the workshops that I run and conferences I go to, You know, that's, that word seems to really resonate with people who've been through struggles. And I, you know, I say, look, I look around the room and I can tell when people have been through, um, you know, struggles themselves and we, we can all tell our tribe. And so when I say it's our duty to give back, you know, that the eyes full with tears in the room and it's that duty, that obligation. Yeah. No, it's not a word that's used often. But I think it still has a little bit of meaning to it. But we hear the word obliged and you think, oh yeah, well, I can do it or not. But duty is, that's a call to service.
John Milham (Host) · 03:08
And it certainly resonates with me. I wonder if the famous Gen Z now, who seem to be a topic of conversation endlessly about how they're not good enough, do they understand it the same way we do, do you think?
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 03:25
No, no. And essentially it's the brains, their brains are different. So the younger the generation, so from, it started to change with Gen X and that was the introduction of technology. And then Gen Ys were the generation that came through with more curiosity than any other generation. So they were mislabeled as rather than Gen Y, Gen W-H-Y.
John Milham (Host) · 03:48
Yeah. Wow.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 03:50
Why are they always asking questions? Well, they are, born with a thirst for knowledge. Why? Because, uh, they had more access to greater information readily available than ever before. We are born curious as a species. And so they have a curious mindset. Um, now they are the generation that, uh, the majority in the workplace are now Gen Ys. And when I'm talking of with my generation, uh, I say step aside. Stand well clear and let them come through because their ideas are very, very different. Uh, they are modernized. Their brains are different. So neurologically, we know now my generation as a baby boomer, we used to be able to do something called compartmentalization. You know, I call it the shit box.
John Milham (Host) · 04:41
Yeah.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 04:41
And we used to be able to shove stuff in there and then every so often, you know, take some Amber Liquid and get rid of it, right? So we'd talk with our mates and off it would go. Even in my generation now, I speak to, I do a lot of work in the farming community and rural areas. And I say the box is no longer there and the room, they just, they suddenly have this awakening of, yeah, you're right. It's, I can't do that anymore with stuff. So neurologically, our brains are changing, but our young people, Um, it's born into them. You know, my, I remember my grandson now, he would be, what's he in the Gen Zs, I would say, maybe even becoming the Gen A's. They are, they were back to Alphas again. At the age of 3, in fact, it wouldn't have even been 3 because he still had a dummy in his mouth. He's picking up an iPhone and connecting with somebody, FaceTime. Like we could hear him doing it. It's just like. And he's got a dummy and this little pacifier in his mouth and he's sitting on the step at home, right? And so that's it. So they are a lot different now. That generation, particularly with men, struggled. And the reason they struggled is because they had the legacy of my generation and possibly yours of, um, suck it up, sweetheart. Right? So it's a get back on, you know, the old, um, we had that That whole stoicism was really big in our day and just get on with it, get up. And they're torn between the new brain of, I really want to talk about it. I know it's good for me because I've read about it and I do want to, but I don't know how to.
John Milham (Host) · 06:21
Yeah. So we've habituated those kind of unhelpful elements, right?
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 06:28
Yeah. So they become, if you want to use the term woke, that's what they become. And I don't mean it in a derogatory term as it's woke, the word woke's being used today. They are more aware and more awake and more observant of other people and they care more. They care about the planet. They care about each other. They understand emotions. They have greater empathy than any other generation that came before them. And I know this is going to be painful for some people that are listening.
John Milham (Host) · 06:56
Well, I, like, I, I love the idea, um, because so often, like, when we look down at generations, we are looking at their foibles, right? We're looking at how they're not as efficient in some ways, or they're not—
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 07:10
well, they're not talking, are they?
John Milham (Host) · 07:11
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 07:14
Well, they don't need to. They've got a device. The only reason we talked is because we didn't have devices. I can't remember when we first— we got a telephone and it was a party line and it had 4 others on the same connection. You tell that to people and they go, how does that work? I have no idea.
John Milham (Host) · 07:31
I mentioned to someone that we— I used to have get given 10 cents to go, because as a, as a scout, you have to have 10 cents in your pocket. In your pocket.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 07:41
Yeah, bob.
John Milham (Host) · 07:42
A bob. A bob, right? To, to make a phone emergency phone call from a phone box if you needed. And the, the bloke didn't ask me about, like, he looked at me and said, what's a phone box? Right?
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 07:57
So yeah, you know, I remember I lived in, in Australia for a while, and in Sydney they used to have in the, um, corner stores, they used their phone box, phone sitting in there.
John Milham (Host) · 08:06
I was like, who uses those? The red phones or the blue phones? The red phones.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 08:11
The red phones. It was like, why would you use that? It should be in a box somewhere.
John Milham (Host) · 08:16
We, we, we had people to talk to, I guess. Um, but, um, as a teenager, right, you disappear for, for days, right? And your parents just assume you're okay.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 08:25
Yeah, yeah, you're with somebody.
John Milham (Host) · 08:27
So, and I guess when we look down, right, that we had a certain experience of that and it gave us certain resources. I believe parents are trying to hand the best resources over to the next generation, but there's this confusion about what is actually useful. In some ways, when we hand over our stoicism, we're thinking that's going to get you through. But of course, as you point out so beautifully, it's changed.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 08:56
No, it doesn't these days. Yeah. So the internal chatter is greater for younger generations. Right? So their thoughts are faster. Their decisions are often made with just a snap of the fingers, right? A blink of the eye. They are sharper. Now, what the downside of that is their brains are too fast and it's having an overwhelming, nothing's changed with negativity bias, right? And so what we have got now is we've got and we're still pushing back. You know, ADHD, how did I know I have ADHD? Only because I finished my third book recently, like two years ago, I suddenly realized that I have ADHD and I went back through, my mum kept report cards and I've, I kept them, never looked at them and I looked at them. Wow, what an awakening there for me. It was like, you know, won't sit still, can't concentrate, needs to be punished more. All of that sort of stuff. So my parents brought me up the best they could. Now they, as both of them, uh, had been sent to the military because in those days when they grew up, their parents did what they thought was right. And when something went wrong, they just shoved you off to the military, which became your locus parentis, right? So they became your parents. And so my parents learned by trial and error how to bring me up. And so in those days we were punished and we were, you know, strapped and caned and all sorts of things. Um, can't sit still, uh, needs to concentrate, not aware that there are some people who are neurodivergent who are, who are different, you know, people are, and I still think people from my generation, I think worse for, for them than me, my mom, I was quite happy being by myself. Well, I had no one to play up to. And I, um, you know, my wife says to me the day, you're, you travel a lot. Do you ever get lonely? I said, I'm always alone, but never lonely. You know, I can sit there for hours and days, but what they did was the people who came through who, um, have, um, dyslexia. Now they were worse off. As we come through as parents, we try to do what is right. Based on half of our parenting, the way we were parented, and half of what we know. And so each generation comes through, it's moderating the next generation and doing their best. And so we've, we've really got to understand though, there was a big, so my generation, baby boomers, we had Gen Ys. Now the gap between that, in between there was X. So that decade between the baby boomers and the Gen Y was massive in tech advances and technology. Unbelievable. And it's, it's, I've researched this and researched this and researched. It all comes back to technology. And, you know, before we came on board, you were talking about the encyclopedias. That's how we got information. And I brought one a week. Cause that's all you could afford.
John Milham (Host) · 12:07
Yeah. Yeah.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 12:08
That's it. One a week and you got a little magazine or something free with it if you'd buy them. And you know, they, people came around knocking on your door, door-to-door encyclopedia salespeople. And so it's a different world we're in now though. And with that advance in technology within just a 10-year period, um, completely rewired our brain as has happened in 2020. With lockdown. That's rewired everyone's brain and we're still seeing the side effects of that now with an increase in escalation of violence. So yeah, coming back to your point, um, we parent how we think is right. And, um, we simply having trouble. What I've noticed with my children, with grandchildren, with their children, um, they're good parents. They are better parents than, than we could ever hope for. Well, that's what I'm finding in my family. You know, my, I said something to my grandson who does have ADHD and, and, you know, a few other challenges that goes on in his life as most young people do. Um, and I said a couple of things, oh, here, here, grab this. No, no. And you go through this door. And my daughter turned to me and she said, dad, one thing at one time. And I was like, oh, and the things that she's teaching me, cause she's actually a special ed, um, teacher and the things that she's teaching me and the things she knows. And whenever I've got a health issue now, I call my daughter. She always knows. And she says, oh, you got to go and look at this. And you got to go and look at, you know, we should give up and just let them help us. And so, yeah, it's an interesting time and, you know, times were simpler when we were around, when I was around, certainly, um, much easier to get through life. Now it's just so complicated.
John Milham (Host) · 14:09
They call it VUCA, you know, with increasing complexity and variability and uncertainty and ambiguity, right? Um, and I agree. I have a new granddaughter. My oldest son is a great dad. I was watching him in awe on the weekend, right? Just going, oh wow. It's interesting because we weren't, you mentioned half and half, half of what we were given epigenetically and half of what we've learned since. There's no training for parents.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 14:45
So, right, like, this is the variability of, of who we are as a species, right? So I work in the area of neuroscience, so neuroscience stemming from brain imaging where the brain lights up and then gets a lot more complex, obviously. So, um, with the advent of that in the 1990s, we learned more about the human brain than the previous 500 years, it is said. Now, um, now we know where the parts of the brain light up and so we can get a bit more clarity of things. So it's leaning more now. I'm really settled now into nature versus nurture. It's nurture. And part of nurture is what we learn, not how we're brought up. It's the way we learn and how we learn, et cetera. Um, I never learned to learn until the age of 35. So, um, I came through, I was a builder after leaving, um, I've always had a strong work ethic, massive work ethic. Uh, at the age of, I think it was, so I was, uh, form 1, so that's 11 years old. I'd had a paper round and mowed a couple of people's lawns. And I was at home doing some homework. I never did homework. And I, I remember I had nowhere to study. And also what I did was I came up with this idea and the chest of drawers that we have. And I pulled out every drawer and managed to stick my legs through where the drawers had been into the carcass of the— and I had, and I got a chair and I sat and did my homework and I, I, it felt good. It felt right. And I, but I looked down and looked at how ridiculous it looked. And I swore that day that when I have children, they won't have to do this. And it was, you know, at the age of 11, I remember it might've even been 10. It was, I was so young. I just, it was, and I thought, no, never. And that really planted the seed for me. So when I left school with no qualifications and just an absolute dropkick, um, getting into trouble and, you know, even with the law.
John Milham (Host) · 16:59
Was that because you're obviously an intelligent person with Uh, and, you know, we are told, uh, that ADHD creates this very negative environment. So, you know, uh, the research says by the age of 10, you've heard 10,000 more negative comments about your—
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 17:15
100%. I've never heard that before, but thank you. That for me, that's, that's what I'm going to remember from this interview. Thank you. All right.
John Milham (Host) · 17:24
Well, you know, it's ridiculously powerful. Can you imagine if you're like the your entire experience of the world is, you know, somebody telling you that you're terrible.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 17:34
Oh, I wish that before I wrote my last book, we should have done this interview. So my whole, I describe it at the start of the book, um, how I never had friends. I never felt connected to the world. I never felt like I fit in anywhere, even though I tried, I became the class clown. I, I, I demand, can I make jokes? You know, I still do it today. Oh, you know, somebody will stand up or say something or something, and I'll just come back with a quip that just absolutely just makes the room erupt. And it's just natural for me to do it because I've been a clown all my life because that's how I associated with people. Yeah, that's a powerful thought. And then when you're alone, um, you know, that intensifies that whole, you know, that whole realm of, of nothingness in our head filled with words and self-deprecation. Now, the biggest thing for me I learned with ADHD is anger. I was the most angry person you would ever meet. And I, it's only just in the last sort of 10 years I've tried to work on it and I'm still struggling in some areas. I get so angry and at everything that doesn't, when it doesn't go well. And it's not, I mean, some people can just go, well, just I don't know, pick it up and move on. No, you can't do that. Not with the type of brain. And the same way that when people ask me questions, I don't hear them the way they're asked. This one really dumbfounds me. And, and so from somebody who's, who does keynotes and workshops, um, when you get asked questions and I'll, I'll answer. Now what I say is, have I asked, answered your questions? I have to say that. And a lot of times people are still saying no. And so then I have to explain, well, I don't hear questions the way they're heard. It's, it's the brain's fascinating, right? But you're talking about the IQ. I'm so annoyed. I've got a massive IQ. Um, and what that means is you have the ability to learn. That's what a high IQ does. And basically you see patterns. I can see patterns where there aren't patterns.
John Milham (Host) · 19:36
Now I'd call that, uh, uh, that perhaps an element of the ADHD, the need to put things together constantly that other people don't, you know, take in without that step, right? They seem to, but you know, as you practice it constantly, you become very good at it. And of course the muscle grows. So you become exceptional at reading people and reading situations.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 20:02
I've got, I've got some things going on in my head. I did a, um, when I did my, so coming on to when I was, uh, I joined the police at the age of 35, which is amazing.
John Milham (Host) · 20:12
I have no idea why that would happen. Right.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 20:14
But I was in construction and I hated it. And I'll be honest, the reason why I became, went into construction, I could have gone engineering or I could have gone construction. And I, I received higher credits at school, at high school for, for woodwork. That's what it was called back then, woodwork and tech drawing. Um, and so, um, those are the only two qualifications I got. Um, and so, um, I didn't get the school certificate. You had to get three or four, I think, but I didn't get them all. So I decided, in fact, I only got one. And so I decided to, um, go into building and absolutely hated it. Did very well, became a construction manager of multi-story buildings, uh, just because I have that ability to focus. You can focus, right? You can see patterns, you can see pictures and you can focus. What's a picture? It's a plan. Show me that plan. And I could see, visualize how things were put together. And then I heard an ad on the radio for 500 new cops. And so I thought, ooh, I've always wanted this. And as luck would have it, a couple of cops that came onto our building site, we had somebody broke in and stole a whole lot of product. And these two cops came in and they flash car, you know, with lights and sirens and things. And they get out and they're laughing and joking and one's got a bit of blood up here and somebody else, the other guy's got a bit of a rip button. I'm like, oh, this is me. So I joined at 35.
John Milham (Host) · 21:42
Wow, what a calling.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 21:45
And I remember being at the police college and looking down at my uniform and going, I'm here. What have I done? Yeah. And I, and I, we couldn't afford to go home. I couldn't afford to travel back and forward. So I was stuck there for 18 weeks or whatever it was. Um, we, we had one gap in the middle to come back home, which was paid for, but, um, you're really alone and, and I struggled. And so I struggled with homesickness or they call it separation anxiety these days. Uh, really struggled with it because that's the first time I'd ever been away from home and I had young, 3 young kids and they all got the mumps all at the same time. And my wife's, you know, just really an absolute legend. And, uh, I, um, I got taken aside by, there was about 3 of us got taken aside by a, um, behavioral science tutor. And she said, you think differently. You need, no one's shown you how to learn with your different brain to me. And so she said, here's a number of ways and they sort of didn't, didn't resonate. So I worked out my own way of learning and that was, uh, rote learning. So writing things down and writing things down, not highlight, you have to write, write, write, write, write. And as I started writing, my writing became quite sloppy, but I could still read it. Right. And so that's the only way I could get, keep up pace because every day you're getting 5 new modules and a module is a massive, that module might be robbery, you might do theft, you might, and you have to learn the case law, you have to learn the legislation, you have to, oh, just so much to take in. And so I started to squiggle and I remember it was a, must've been a Saturday or Sunday. Um, cause I stayed on the college the whole time. Somebody walked into the classroom and looked around and said, are you okay? And I looked at, and I'm so I, on, I had stick-it notes. I had the whiteboard. I had the, the big one and I had one in the side room and the glass that goes between the breakout room and I had, and I had this because I've realized if I write in different ways and on different objects, it reinforces it. And it was a fan— I ended up nearly topping the wing because of this, but I looked back and it looked like some weird savant had been in there.
John Milham (Host) · 24:00
Yeah, like you often see that in the movies, right? The psychopath, you walk in, you think him.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 24:08
Yeah, it was exactly like that. I couldn't believe it. And I still, I can still write like that today. Yeah. Wow. Um, and I realized then that I had this gift for knowledge and this thirst for knowledge. And, uh, and so, um, I got through college and then I had a massive, uh, bout with depression. So, you know, state house, no money, um, no school education, get a job because you're a, you know, cause that's what you didn't want to do, but it was what you called sort of do. Just got kids. I've got, you know, we got married at, um, in those days, 18. And we went to, um, we ended up, well, once I got married to going to Australia and spent 3 years there. And, um, you know, just really struggled my whole life with, with things. And, and anger was my go-to, right? And as a teenager, I have to say, you know, drugs and alcohol.
John Milham (Host) · 25:06
Yeah, which is, uh, you know, which is the best often a teenager can do to manage the symptoms of what is a very challenging life, right?
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 25:15
It's a, it's a hell of a place to be in, isn't it?
John Milham (Host) · 25:17
Yeah.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 25:18
You're wondering why and you struggle your whole life and you just get tired. And so when I learned how to learn and, um, I ended up leaving the police college and my detective exams. So I probationary constable was that within 6 months, but they don't give it to you for 2 years. So I finished all the Asia exams. So I started doing the detective exams. And qualified as a detective, then started to go university papers. And then, but at some point, uh, I had depression and hit rock bottom. And I mean rock bottom. I was self-medicating, um, bottle of red wine a night, you know, just to get to sleep. Um, hell of a place to be in. And I was just then had become a crisis negotiator. And, uh, so I, it was, it came out of nowhere.
John Milham (Host) · 26:05
Well, it didn't, Was this peeling the onion? Do you think like you were, what was coming up as you grew in awareness of, you know, what was happening in yourself, right? Reflecting on your own, you know, biology, if you will. Do you think that was popping up? Like unresolved stuff was coming up and causing a trouble?
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 26:23
No, for me it wasn't so much the unresolved stuff. It was more about, well, it could have been, but what was my, my focus was always on I need to get ahead. That was my whole, I remember having a conversation with somebody on the third form at high school, not knowing what to take in the fifth form year. So in the exam and the big, before you go to university. And I think I remember saying, I'm worried about, I need to get a house. So what would you show you? This is me, right? Just worry. Wow. That part of the ADHD, right? Preparing for future and just, you're just filling the gaps with.
John Milham (Host) · 27:03
And if you're not anxious about something, you'll create something to be anxious about.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 27:07
It's just, you add to that a little bit of OCD and, you know, which most people with ADHD have a little bit of that and a little bit of this and a little bit of that.
John Milham (Host) · 27:15
Rejection sensitivity. So if you get anything wrong, you're going to be, you know, well, yeah, that inner critic is huge.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 27:22
It just sits there the whole time. Uh, lots and lots and lots of, um, Uh, imposter syndrome. Yeah. Yeah. Still get that today. That's, that's hence the reason I've got a master's, two diplomas. I'm doing a third one right now. In fact, I was just doing it before, you know, and, and so that whole, and, and the, and I'm not, haven't written three books. They're published. I, I'd not self-published. They were, they are published through a reputable publisher. So you have to really work hard on that. And then, and then hitting this, this wall, um, I did have some things, but I think it The biggest one was not looking after myself was the alcohol. All right. So by this stage, uh, even in the police, I mean, the culture in the police in those days was, you know, to finish a night shift, you'd get on the booze. That's the only way you could sleep. You didn't sleep for 7 nights. You were just robot or just working, living on empty. And so you'd have a, you know, they, they, it was a Sunday. They called it Sunday school. Then it became a Monday. I don't know whether they did that to try and stop what they call the Sunday school, but it became Monday breakfast. You went to somebody's house and you had breakfast and you got pissed and went home and slept for a day or two, you know, just try and catch up and then you're back into it. But all of that accumulation and, uh, and I started to just feel the, the loss of control. And so burnout was, was the big thing for me, having no sense of control over anything. Um, whenever I was, I put in for leave a few times and it was declined. I think for 3 years.
John Milham (Host) · 28:50
Is that because of the crisis negotiations?
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 28:52
Yeah, no, it was because of the policing, uh, when I came through. That's why they wanted the 5— they needed the 500 extra cops. Yeah. And it was just that whole— you get lost in that world, you know. You kid yourself, you're doing God's work, you know. It's a common theme in the place. We're doing God's work, um, you know, we're doing good. So we've got to— therefore we've got to pull our socks up and get back out there. Um, that's changed massively. And I, I'm so appreciative of the massive change that's happened for young people. So when I did fall down the hole, it was a hell of a job. And I was having ideations. I was absolutely in a bad way. Um, and I was, I remember standing at a photocopier one day and I make jokes about it because it's kind of funny when you see it from the outside, but the photocopy. So here I am, a detective senior sergeant. Photocopying a serious crime file. Um, can you imagine somebody getting a pretty good salary and they, cause that's the way it was. You didn't have anyone to do that stuff and the bloody photocopier kept breaking down. They were invented by men. I'm sure of it. And I just, it all overwhelmed me and I looked out the window and my brain said, you gotta go higher. And I went, oh, because I've become a negotiator. Now, if I hadn't have done that, I wonder what would have happened. And I just suddenly went, you are having an ideation, mate. They just happen, right? You don't, it's not something you plan for. And if you don't know what's happening, you just work with it. And so I went and got some help. I went and spoke to a Padre, believe it or not, just somebody to connect to. And I went and spoke with him and we prayed and we did a little bit of, you know, the writing stuff on a bit of paper and burning it.
John Milham (Host) · 30:37
It felt pretty good after that.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 30:37
And he says to me, Still gonna have to get some help, fella.
John Milham (Host) · 30:41
Yeah.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 30:41
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 30:41
Well, it's such an important, um, uh, thing you bring up there, the ability of men to use something to anchor on and feel good about it. And then of course launch back into their bad, their bad habits, right? And then sort of get into trouble again without—
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 30:57
that's it. So when you get that, when you've got that one little glimpse of daylight, you gotta take it. Yeah. And I never looked back, you know, and, uh, I got a fantastic psychologist who said, I'm not putting you on drugs. You need them, but you're not, you know, SSRIs and no, um, he said, uh, I'm going to send you to a dietitian. I went, no, pills would be good.
John Milham (Host) · 31:24
I heard they work.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 31:24
Why don't we just send me there? Just give me something to stop this stuff from happening. You know, isn't it like, you know, anything else? I got a bit of reflux. Can't you just give me some pills for that? You know, you got pills for everything, can't you? He says, no, you got to do some hard work. And he gave me a book and it was, um, and I just love it to bits. I can't read it now because it makes no sense, but it was called, uh, You Can Heal Your Life by Louise Hay.
John Milham (Host) · 31:53
Yeah.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 31:54
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 31:54
Okay.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 31:55
Um, and at the time, it was just magical.
John Milham (Host) · 32:00
Yeah.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 32:01
And I've read it a couple of times since and go, there's not really much science in there.
John Milham (Host) · 32:07
It's, uh, it's on my, it's in my, uh, it's in my shelf development section, right? Yeah.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 32:16
So it's, uh, so that started me on my journey of, of, of really taking control of my life, you know, and, and crisis negotiator was just unbelievable for me. I became the New Zealand's lead crisis negotiator. So I used to travel to Australia and get involved with the state every year and do that. And policing was just a fantastic role. I learned to learn. Yeah, they broke me, I say, till they fixed me. And they fixed me well.
John Milham (Host) · 32:48
Yeah, I love that, which is kind of the idea, right? You've become the perfect example of what the whole process is meant to achieve. What's interesting though is I wonder if roles like, uh, uh, you know, crisis negotiators with, you know, like, um, international, you know, facilitators, you know, those kind of roles, um, uh, should they should go and recruit, uh, neurodiverse people. I reckon that should be like an indication of best practice, right?
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 33:26
It's true. So when I became the lead, I changed the selection criteria and I spoke with my counterpart in New South Wales and he was horrified. He said, you can't do that. He said, you can't do that. Here's the skills you need. I said, no, I want the choice that they must have been through a struggle in their life. And it has to be a beauty and you've recovered from it and learn and know how you've recovered from it. And, and it changed it. I'm sure it revolutionized negotiating within New Zealand because we, um, we were having so much success and so many good people coming through. We broke a couple on the way. We broke a few, you know, every course there'd be one or two that, that couldn't hack it, which meant they still hadn't healed or repaired or, yeah, so they still weren't there. But, um, that was, that was something in the legacy that I'd like to leave with the police. And I ended up doing the FBI negotiators course in Quantico. And that was fascinating. And I brought back from there, um, they have a system, they have a computer system called a HOBUS and it's every hostage barricade kidnapping goes into this database and they're able to predict the likely outcome of violence during the, uh, so it was just, it's just based on statistics and where the person is and why it is. So I just moderated it and modified it and came, brought it back here. And that's still being used today with the New Zealand police. So I left some legacies there. I ran the first, first ever negotiation course for prison staff. And they now have prison negotiators because I was taken into prisons fairly regularly to do negotiations in there. And you know, they can, like, you walk through the prison and you hear, yeah. Oh, how did they know I was a cop? Well, you smell like one for a start. You look like one and you walk like one. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 35:29
The tribe is clearly, you're stamped with the tribe.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 35:32
You just, you can't, you know, I can still walk into a restaurant or something and look across and get down, just, just do that because you just know that it's the cops sitting there. Number one, they're facing the door.
John Milham (Host) · 35:43
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They, they know where the, the viable exits are.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 35:49
Their heads on a swivel the whole time, right? They might be looking straight away, but their eyes are going all over the place. Um, yeah, it was a great career, a great career, but it came to an end. I ended up in, so it would be your triple zero, so our triple one. Call center. Um, I was in charge of recruitment and development for all 3 call centers for the country. Um, and you know, this, the, the, the leadership skills? No, I just spoke to people like they were people and, and just came up with these real neurodiversity, neurodivergence. It's just, it gives you some crazy ways of thinking. And, and, uh, so I did very, very well, uh, but I started saying my mind and it was time to leave. 22 years. Um, like it was up into a bit of trouble. It's normally 21 years that you, you get your, your clasp. You, you, so you have your long service. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, it was delayed because I, I got the, the long service but not the good conduct. Yeah, right. So I waited almost to the day when I got it and I said, see ya. And, uh, my wife said, you know what, you, you've always been loved standing in front. You're a bit of an idiot when you get in front of people and you like training. Why don't you start your own business? And it was hard. It's a difficult time. But then, um, you know, she said to me once, I said, like, after 6 months I was looking to get a real job. And she said, why don't you just pour your heart into it for 2 weeks and see what happens? Absolutely nailed it, she did. I got that big break within, you know, just by one client and that client, it was a bank, a big bank. And it just, things took off from there and, you know, 12 years coming up into our own business going and flourishing. You know, when I look back and so writing my books and doing this positive psychology, so I did my master's through Charles Ditt, Funny thing about our brain, and I talk to people and I've only met one other person who can do this. When I started doing my master's, um, it was in, it was in terrorism safety and security through Charles Sturt University.
John Milham (Host) · 38:03
And which I went to for a while.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 38:05
Did you?
John Milham (Host) · 38:05
And failed again, like just like most, uh, ADHD journeys.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 38:09
Yeah, I was, I, well, I didn't fail.
John Milham (Host) · 38:12
I just. Didn't complete. Yeah.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 38:13
Didn't complete. Yeah. Well, I'm there. My diploma in positive psychology has been 7 years, but you know, you know, it's a, it's when I started, I could read, I could read all the research, right? And so what I'd do is I'd read the research and dump it. And then I could visualize in my head where each paragraph would fit. So all I'd do is start reading and then I go, oh, that's a chapter. 5 is another chapter., and then as I go, that's another chapter. Now, you know, these, these thesis are massive. And so I was able to just visualize it. So I was talking to my tutor at the Chael Sturt about it. And he was, the whole phone went silent, like, you're some sort of weirdo. And my books are done the same way, right? So I just, I just, they're all research-based, so they're evidence-based, and I just dump it all out and then I fill it with my own personal stories. Stories of others, uh, and bring a real personal flavor to it in a way, in a language that people understand. So I've taken a real technical stuff. I don't, I don't know how I got by without, with the first two books, the third book at the very end, AI was just starting to come into being. And so I used it to decipher the big words. I'd go, hey, what does this mean? And, uh, and then I'd, and I put that into my own words. And so I guess the whole thing, and then when I look back and then I started to realize there was something different. When I look back to where I come from, state home, no money. I earned more at the age of 11 than my parents did. Um, school, we moved every 2 to 3 years around the country. So I had no stable childhood. Um, and with that changing around the country. The different writing styles. So some schools did the, that beautiful calligraphy type writing and others did, uh, just, just put little curves on the end of you. So I ended up with not really, you know, to this day, it's a horrible writing that I have. Um, what else? No, no real strong friendships, no wrong strong mateships. Um, ADHD, um, and all that other stuff that we've talked about that goes with it. I don't know how I got to where I am now. And it just, you know, when I say to people, and I don't often go through this, this is why I'm privileged to do this. I don't talk about this at all. To get to where I am now, now, um, I'm doing okay. All right. So I can look out the window and we're on a peninsula and I can see the sea.
John Milham (Host) · 40:48
Yeah.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 40:49
But we're not close to it. We're high enough up so the waves don't come over us. Way up these days, way up. But, um, you know, and, and I've beautiful kids, wife, uh, they all, my family works for me and to be in the place I am, I would never have said, and if I could speak to my younger self now, I would say two words, don't worry.
John Milham (Host) · 41:11
It's easy to like, you look back and I, you know, I completely, uh, you know, uh, resonate with what you're saying, but in a sense of like part of the practice I, you know, I've had to sort of dive into and I, and working with other men believe it's important for them is that sense of acceptance. When you look back, the, you know, in the worry, right, that you then turned and reframed and accepted and moved into some other space was almost the path, you know, like, and to, to, to, to resurrect some stoicism. The obstacle is the way, right? The idea that we've learned so much from those very things. Yeah. So your life is the university you attended before you ended up being able to get to university.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 42:08
What do they say? Qualified by experience. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've got a QBE. And I guess it is. So it's the culmination of all that. Uh, you know, and I do, I post fairly regularly. We do 2 or 3 posts on, on social media a week now. And a lot of it's around my life and, and so I can share with others and get, and others come in and they just say, this is me and this is what I've done. And we're very, very similar, right? Um, and we're drawn to what we do too. So I didn't, I sort of went, become a builder. It was a great career. Why? Because to support ourselves, we've been buying and selling homes, living in them for, you know, 4, 5, 6 years, renovating them as we go on my days off when I was a copper. And, uh, it's, so that got us to where we are today. It was hard work, but also that ability to learn once I learned to learn. Um, yeah, it's, it's, you know, it's because of adversity. It's that, that is where I am. It's not, not, you know, it's not, it didn't hold me back, it made me.
John Milham (Host) · 43:15
Yeah, for, I love that, uh, term forged in fire. It just seems to resonate. I don't know if that's just me being that, uh, baby boomer.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 43:22
No, we just put out a post, we put it, I just put out a post today.
John Milham (Host) · 43:25
Right.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 43:26
On, on, on LinkedIn for the same thing.
John Milham (Host) · 43:29
Yeah, fabulous.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 43:30
Do we need to go through hard times? Well, and so, you know, it's, it, we, We don't necessarily have to, but it does help.
John Milham (Host) · 43:37
Yeah, I often think hard times, you get through hard times. I think the worst thing that happens, right, this is just my view, is that we waste the good times.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 43:51
Yeah, well, you know, good times wouldn't be good times if we didn't have bad times. Good times would just be a time. Yeah, if it was all good times, it'd just be a time.
John Milham (Host) · 43:59
Yeah, exactly. But right, so we spend so much time whinging or, you know, trying to blame someone or something, you know, instead of, you know, soaking up the good time, you know, before it turns back into a hard time, right?
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 44:13
One of the things I say to people when they're going through a struggle, so I do one-on-one counseling and all sorts of things these days, but you know, people who go through struggles and they just can't see an end, I say, it will get better. You just have to wait.
John Milham (Host) · 44:25
Yeah. Wow.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 44:26
You don't have to work. You just have to wait. Just put one foot in front of the other. I promise you the trips will stop. Yeah. You'll just keep walking and just keep stepping over it and just keep walking through it. Sit down every so often. 100%. If you fall back, so what? Get up and move forward again. And eventually things will work out, provided you're moving forward in a, doesn't have to be a positive way, as long as you're moving forward and doing something different to what you did yesterday.
John Milham (Host) · 45:00
It's an opportunity too good to pass up, right, um, to ask you about policing, right? Because, um, you know, you, you have this almost perfect background of, you know, like, you know, rough childhood, you know, become a policeman, criminal.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 45:17
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 45:18
Move on and like be an expert in the field. Um, policing's going through a lot of, uh, challenge at the moment, and we watch overseas experience and you know, the militarization of policing, um, the escalation of weapons and, and sort of tactics so that they become, you know, much more aggressive than, like, you know, it— is there a, you know, how important is this in terms of, like, changing the culture? Is it appropriate? Um, it, you know, do we need to look at other tactics?
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 45:56
Yes, we do. We need to look at, we need to look at verbal de-escalation. Now people go, oh, de-escalation. You need to look at verbal engagement. Uh, there are lots of ways and I'd run a whole pro series of programs and we work in, um, city councils at the moment, 35 of them, you know, I think there's 70 in New Zealand. Well, so I work for over half of them these days and government departments showing them different ways of dealing with people. If we can work with people, So rather than say to people, stand back, it's come closer. I want to know what you've got to say. I want to hear what you have to say. And if we can just do some simple things, we will have much better engagement, right? So we tend to, this whole thinking of, now we know this through something called crime prevention through environmental design. A bank's, there's only been one robbery in a bank in New Zealand in 4 years. Because they removed the bars, they removed the wires, all of that stuff, which kept the person safe, not staff. Now the same with, we got taxi drivers, you have them over there and bus drivers with the plastic. Well, that's causing people to spit on it and to cause violence. It actually causes violence. And in the same way that, you know, if police turn up, uh, as they did in the Wellington parliament riot, you could see it was going to, you could just see it was going to end. And every time they came out with their uniforms of just show a bit of force, do me a favor, go down here in the middle of them and talk to them. What the heck do you people want? You know, it's, it's, you got to start dealing with people as people, not as objects. You know, you're particularly with policing, policing is Their core role is what? To protect life and property. If you are donning survival gear, if you're getting shields and that out, don't you have to stop for a moment and go, hmm, don't you think? Because, and you know, they were using, they were trialing a blast siren, a blast siren. Uh, you know, they, they They hit them with a fire hose? Really? So next thing we've got the fire service coming out with a fire hose to quell people who are protesting in Parliament. There's something wrong with the world when that happens. We need to just stop and breathe out. Not breathe in, don't take a deep breath, breathe out. So if you do it right now, if you breathe out slowly, and everyone listening, if they just breathe out, you'll be calm at the end of it. You can't not be because when you breathe out, your heart rate goes down. When you breathe in, it goes up. So don't tell somebody they need to take a deep breath because you stand back. You just need to breathe out. When in doubt, breathe out, right? That's the saying. And, you know, there's a whole lot of things that we do, which is very, very different. Councils love it. There's no backlash. And if there is, well, then there's consequences. You're not allowed back. You can make phone calls. So we don't, there's no direct, you know, we don't tell people to get out these days. We invite them to come back. I'm not going anywhere. Hmm. Hmm. Uh, you might, you might be. Um, so you see the way it works? Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 49:15
That's so interesting. I, I, I, I look at the, you know, you talked about, um, you know, inviting them, right? Just the concept of invitation, right? Um, you know, police, police are, even their uniforms now are becoming utility and masked, right? So they're no longer human. They're actually walling themselves off from the very people they're meant to connect with.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 49:40
And what, yep. So we should be still following the UK model and both countries should be following the UK model. Yes, they've got some, and they've, I mean, I was over there, I went over there for the Olympics and I was part of the policing team for the Olympics, New Zealand Police, and I was embedded in the village with the athletes. And I did a couple of sojourns over there as preparation. And I remember there was at one of the fountains, I'm not sure if it was Trafalgar Fountain, one of those big, big fountains, there was a whole group of football supporters, you know, soccer. And And for me, that would have been, we would have got out buses and, you know, we would have rolled out cops and had all sorts of things of, you know, horses would have come out. And there was a sergeant and four in a van, in a van watching it. And I said, you know, to a colleague over there that isn't the police over there that I met once there, I said, I described and I said, why didn't they do anything?
John Milham (Host) · 50:42
He said, why?
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 50:43
You're only going to inflame the situation. If it gets out of hand, eventually it'll peter out, but we can call people at the drop of a hat. You know, and the one thing that the, uh, I thought it was arrogance at the time, but for the Olympics, I went for the final security briefing and the, the head of security, um, I think he might've been the chief constable came out and said, this is the last time you'll ever see me unless the, unless the shit hits the fan. He said, uh, he said, this is another day. In the office for us, right? And he said, and so what they were doing was when people were queuing up, they'd have clowns, they'd have, they'd be giving out sausages, you know, sausage sizzles. They'd be, they'd be making people laugh. They'd be, they'd have signs, electronic signs everywhere saying, you know, you are visitor number 3,700, you know, to the, from where you are here to the front is 7 minutes. So, and they just did such a big change and I was like, wow, this is, this is what we need to be doing more of. And you'll still see it today. They, they will not, very seldom do they pull out a firearm.
John Milham (Host) · 51:52
Yeah. I, I, I gotta say that's, that's real people management, right? That's like protecting and helping people, right?
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 52:01
They know people and that's, that's, we could learn from that. So that's the sort of work that I do and, and, and we do in our business these days. Of showing them a different way. I remember there was, um, I think it was, um, the ADB conference or APEC or one of those. I think it might've been APEC and the university students decided to have a protest. So they came down the hill from the university to, uh, AITR Square in Auckland, uh, where part of it was being held. In fact, it was the opening. And so they set up cordons and all that sort of stuff, but where the police were, were just in one corner and that's where they aimed for. Right. So we set up the, the, I mean, they had these, and, uh, what happens in there is every so often you'll get someone you can't deal with in the front. So all you do is you pull them through and you throw them out the back and somebody will pick them up. But when they break through that line, they don't know where to go. Now, now, and I happened to look up and I thought they could just jump the fence, the jump the barrier and do whatever they want. Why are they picking here? That's human behavior. It's like us, if we see a sign on a door that says staff only, what do we want to do?
John Milham (Host) · 53:10
Go there.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 53:11
Go through that door. We need the word only. It's just staff. Oh, I know who's behind the door. There's no challenge. You see how, you see how we change? You see how, what, what? And so that's the sort of stuff that I do and that others, and that's also the stuff that policing could do. Yeah, by all means, you know, if you want to have a bit of a skirmish, set it up near a cage somewhere so you can put them They filtered them all through into the cage and then—
John Milham (Host) · 53:33
Lead them through to a mud puddle, right?
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 53:35
Yeah, yeah. Senior? Yeah, well, we're going away for the night and we'll catch you later. It's just human behavior is funny, isn't it? It's just— so that's how you deal with people. You deal with people as though they're people. Policing is a wrong word. It's not the right word. We're not policing. You're protecting because that's your job to protect life and property. But yeah, look, it's, it's, um, we just need to change the way we deal with people.
John Milham (Host) · 54:07
I'm wondering, you know, particularly from the, the behavioral framework that you, you, you've, you're so expert in, um, the world seems like particularly insane at times at the moment, right? With the, political situation around the world. And I hear people talking, they seem to have an elevated understanding of the, of human qualities are missing, that corporations have got away from human, that institutions have got away from human. The government is believing that human priorities aren't that the most important anymore. And finally, people are seeing, hang on, this has to stop, right? There's this sense that priorities have gone, got twisted. And I'm wondering if I'm seeing that, is that just from my perspective or, you know, someone like yourself, do you believe that we have the opportunity to reset some of these things?
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 55:17
I think we do, but, and now's a good time. Um, with, it's a perfect storm at the moment, which, which is the time for change, right? So, and this is life. Uh, when, when, you know, when you're real down and out, you know, you have to, sometimes you have to, well, most times you have to hit the bottom. Yeah, we're at the bottom now as far as a species goes because, um, we've got this perfect storm. We've got technology with AI coming through, people fearful of it. Don't be fearful of it. It's a wonderful tool. We've got so much information in our head than ever before. We've going through the business of from meeting people face to face to now doing it virtually and things. So we've had lockdown, which has caused a massive discontent and upset of our own brains. And we, you know, we've talked about that a lot. So if you've got a dry mouth most every day, a headache that won't go away, you might be having random thoughts about your past, mood swings over your day, et cetera, et cetera, having trouble getting to sleep, waking up 3 or 4 times a night. All of these things are because of lockdown, because it's the effect that the brain has. Stay at home, isolate yourself, and be scared. Perfect storm for a baseball bat to the brain. And it's in a hyperstate. Um, more information around, you know, all of these things have come together. So now it's time for us all to stop for a moment and not get rid of that stuff of just take a breath and breathe out and just take things one step at a time. If we keep trying to increase, um, the hard measures of anything in life, we need to get rid of that because our brains neurologically have more empathy than ever before. We have a lot more empathy. Our brains are far more hypervigilant. And so we are, what that does is enhance, uh, what we're seeing in people and enhances our emotional awareness. And now's the time to start teaching people how to learn in the new world and how to learn to deal with the new world. And it does not come with a heavy hammer.
John Milham (Host) · 57:31
Yeah. Wow.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 57:32
With a heavy hand. It comes with a gentle touch.
John Milham (Host) · 57:36
It's a brilliant call to action. As the expert now, the person who is advising governments and institutions and so on in this practical change, right? Assume we're the workshop you're addressing. What would you hope you could leave us as the one thing we can focus on as we walk out the door that might begin the change that you're proposing in the workshops that you run and the—
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 58:11
Start with yourself. Be as kind to yourself as you are with those around you. You know, self-care, self-awareness, self-compassion is a start, right? Learn about yourself first and how you interact with others, that emotional intelligence stuff. That would be the first thing I'd start with. Don't allow your emotions to control you because that's what's happening in the world. That's why countries are fighting. Countries are fighting because one person doesn't like another person. It's as simple as that. Don't tell me, don't you get all these politicians and things saying, oh, it's a bit more complex. No, it's not. One person wants that land. The other one doesn't want to give it up. It's as simple as that. So just crouch and hold, be kind to yourself, and then that will flow out to others. Wow.
John Milham (Host) · 59:11
I can't argue with that excellent advice. Um, I think, uh, you know, the good news is that, um, uh, you know, we've a couple of old, uh, baby boomers can start to share that message, right, with passion, then maybe there's hope for the world, right?
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 59:29
I hope so. I hope so. Yeah. And it really is. It's, um, you know, we just need to learn about ourselves. If you can go back and, you know, back over, if you've got the chance, if you've got old report cards or whatever, learn about yourself. You just have such contentment when you do so. And when you, all the jigsaw puzzle has been, always been bits missing in your life, they all come together. And it just, you know, I'm almost waiting for the time to die. It seems like, you know, whenever everything comes together, all goes well and something happens, right? But it's not like that. It's not like that. Everything comes together and you learn to enjoy the world.
John Milham (Host) · 1:00:06
Absolutely. Um, I have to say now, it, what you've been so inspiring today and I've enjoyed the conversation so much. If like me, listeners are interested in hearing more of your wisdom, how would they connect with some of the stuff that you produce?
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 1:00:22
So we do a lot of work on social media, but thank you for that. So if they warninternational.com, there's our website and we've got YouTube channel going. There's a whole lot of free stuff on there. We post regularly across only about 3 sites, I think. Yeah. So we're on LinkedIn big time there. I blog every 3, 3 times a week. They can sign up for that through our website or they can go onto LinkedIn or we're, yeah, we're still on Facebook. I know. So, um, any one of those, they'll, there's lots of stuff and we post frequently and people are just saying, I love this. You know, they're saying, you, you've made this for me today. And actually not, I made it for me. Got lots of stuff there for people to help them out as well. And they can always reach out to me as well. If they want to.
John Milham (Host) · 1:01:13
That's amazing. Lance, I've enjoyed our conversation so much. I wish we had another hour, but I look forward to the next time we catch up. Thank you so much for sharing an amazing journey with the Consigui Heroes, and all the best, my friend.
Lance Burdett (Guest) · 1:01:32
Thank you so very, very much. It's been a pleasure to talk to you, John. Thank you.
John Milham (Host) · 1:01:35
Cheers, mate. Thank you for listening to this episode of Kintsugi Heroes. Thank you to Colin Lilly for permission to use Broken as our theme music for this series. If you enjoyed this conversation, share the podcast with a friend and let us know by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to support Kintsugi Heroes and the stories we share, head to kintsugiheroes.com.au and follow the instructions to make a tax-deductible donation. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.
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