Is this a true story?

Yes. Kevin Humphreys is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.

What organisation produced this?

Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.

What did Kevin Humphreys learn from this experience?

Kevin's panic attacks and suicidal crisis came not from the operational dangers of flying, but from workplace bullying and what he calls the pressures of command, and it took him 15 years to name what was happening to his body.

What would Kevin Humphreys want listeners to know?

When Kevin finally collapsed, his reptile brain was protecting him by shutting him down, the same way it had been trying to protect him through drinking and self-destructive behavior, even though those defenses were not helping him in the long run.

What helped Kevin Humphreys most along the way?

Kevin did not accept his mental health crisis for years, and only when a coach separated acceptance from blame and guilt was he able to say yes to the fact of it without condoning it, which then freed him to take responsibility for his part in his own recovery.

What would Kevin Humphreys tell someone going through something similar?

Kevin started speaking publicly about his suicidality by accident, in a business group rather than a psychology group, and found that men kept coming to him saying they had the same story but had never had the guts to speak it out loud.

What topics does this episode cover?

This conversation includes a boy mesmerized by rescue helicopters, keeping the flying dream hidden from his brother, charged an hour before the pilot selection board, three pilots from ten make it through, from army jets to civilian rescue helicopter work and the danger becomes normal through incremental training.

From the Blue Mountains to piloting helicopters and public speaking, with Kevin Humphreys

Kintsugi Studio

From the Blue Mountains to piloting helicopters and public speaking, with Kevin Humphreys | Kintsugi Heroes Stories

Overview

Kevin Humphreys watched Army rescue helicopters land near his home in the Blue Mountains as a teenager and knew immediately what he wanted to do. He became a pilot, earned his wings through rigorous training, and spent years flying Black Hawks in formation, hovering near cliff edges, and later doing rescue work in the civilian world. The military had prepared him well for danger. What it had not prepared him for was his own mind.

The panic came first, in a shopping centre in 2000 when his body threw itself against a shopfront for no reason he could name. Then came workplace bullying that left him unable to raise his hand in public without his heart racing and hands shaking. By 2007, as commanding officer in Afghanistan, the pressure had built so high that Kevin found himself laying pavers at home, caught in a spiral of self-criticism that accelerated until he decided to end his life. He collapsed before he could go through with it, and his wife called for help.

Kevin spent seven years after leaving the Army keeping his mental health crisis secret, telling himself he was functional when he was really just ashamed. It took a business coach who refused to let him lie, and a simple shift in how he understood acceptance, to change everything. When he finally spoke publicly about his suicidality in a business mentoring group, men walked across tables to tell him their stories matched his own. That moment led him to found Cor Infinitus, establishing memorials across the country for families of service members who have died by suicide, so they would have a place to grieve without shame.

⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses grief & loss and suicide & self-harm prevention, which some listeners may find distressing.

If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au • GriefLine: 1300 845 745 · griefline.org.au

Chapters

0:00
A boy mesmerized by rescue helicopters
Kevin grows up in the Blue Mountains watching Army helicopters land nearby, and decides at a pimply-faced teenager that he will become a pilot.
5:15
Keeping the flying dream hidden from his brother
Kevin keeps his aviation ambition secret because his older brother wanted to join the Air Force as a pilot but couldn't, and Kevin doesn't want to chase the dream his brother lost.
6:19
Charged an hour before the pilot selection board
Kevin gets disciplined for a training mishap minutes before his final selection interview, arrives furious, and plays it deadpan in front of the commandant.
9:30
Three pilots from ten make it through
Kevin earns his wings despite the 70 percent failure rate, and begins operational flying in Black Hawks with formation work, NVG flying, hoisting, and door gunnery.
13:40
From Army jets to civilian rescue helicopter work
Kevin leaves the military and takes a job as a rescue helicopter pilot, drawn by the operational flying and the chance to keep serving the community as part of a tight crew.
18:18
The danger becomes normal through incremental training
Kevin explains how the military desensitizes pilots so that hovering near cliff edges and flying in tight formation at 50 feet feels ordinary, not extraordinary.
26:30
The panic attack at the shopping centre
Kevin returns from his first deployment to East Timor and, while trying to buy bread, suddenly flattens himself against a shopfront when people approach, and has no words for what happened.
30:59
Workplace bullying breaks his ability to speak
In 2003, after a series of bullying incidents with a particular person, Kevin finds he cannot raise his hand in public without his heart racing, his body sweating, and his hands trembling.
36:34
Laying pavers and the spiral into suicidality
Kevin attempts a simple paving job at home, tells himself he's doing it wrong, and enters a cycle of self-criticism that accelerates until he decides to end his life.
38:36
Collapse on the ground, unable to go through with it
Kevin cannot put himself, his wife, his children, or emergency services through it, and collapses convulsing as his wife Megan finds him and calls the unit psychologist.
42:27
Seven years hiding the secret, then a coach who won't let him lie
Kevin leaves the Army functional but ashamed, keeps the mental health crisis hidden, until a business coach confronts him and says she will terminate their work unless he tells the truth.
47:01
Putting his hand up for the first time in years
At a business mentoring group of 150 people, Kevin stands up and speaks about his wife's support through his suicidality, and men walk across tables to tell him their stories are the same.
50:29
A funeral booklet at the Cenotaph on Anzac Day
In 2020, Kevin finds a funeral service for Private Bradley Carr, a 34-year-old who took his own life on Anzac Day, and decides that families of veterans who die by suicide deserve a place to mourn without shame.
56:19
Twenty-one Cor Infinitus memorials across the country
Kevin establishes anonymous memorials for families of service members who have died by suicide, each one featuring messages from five people who have lived through that loss or survived an attempt.

1 of 7

Charged an hour before the pilot selection board

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 06:19

Bloody, bloody competitive choice you were making.

John Milham (Host) · 06:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Huge. And one of the good things was I honestly had no idea about how competitive it was. I was so, I was so fixated down this draw of just me being the center of the universe. I just want to get in the army and become a pilot. I hadn't— I didn't even think for a second about other people might want to do it too. And anyway, yeah, got in second class, started the process. I don't know, 80% of the class wanted to try their hand at it, which was awesome. Good. But anyway, whittled down pretty quickly until, yeah, I was— it came to the last phase, our selection board, and I had screwed up a couple of months earlier. I'd had a UD with a blank round on an exercise. And so I was getting charged for it, rightly so. And anyway, my charge was an hour before my selection board for pilot's course. And anyway, there were, there were a few people who had conducted bloody egregious offenses. And so we're all lined up out the front of the CO's office, and of course it was running late. Eventually get my charge done and got the appropriate punishment, and then I'm legging it whilst not legging it across duntrun, because you're not allowed to run. And anyway, I got in seconds before my selection board, and I was fuming. I was dirty at myself. And anyway, I got in, and I'm thinking, I haven't got a hope here. I've just been charged, blah, blah, blah. And anyway, I went through the selection process. Adam Fritsch was the commandant at that stage. If anybody's listening, they know Adam Fritsch. He's got a reputation for being a pretty hard bloke, particularly when it comes to interviews. And anyway, I went through it all and I just tried to be even more serious and controlled than I normally am. And I'm normally a pretty serious guy anyway. And anyway, and partly because I was still giving myself uppercuts for being so stupid to get charged. And I hope they don't see through it. Anyway, at the end of it, he says, and this is just funny as, he looks at me and goes, 'Stuff get it, Humphreys. You've shown about as much enthusiasm in this interview as a wet dishcloth.' And I said, 'Oh, sorry you feel that way, sir, but it's not the way I feel about it. But if that's the way you see it, then that's your call.' And I just thought at that point, I just went, 'Oh, I'm done. I'm screwed. I'm out.' And anyway, I found out years later that apparently playing that dead bat straight back to him is exactly what he was, what he would have appreciated.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 09:14

So he was looking for calm under fire, mate, was he?

John Milham (Host) · 09:17

Yeah, yeah, I think so. And so, yeah. So when it came to the beret night, 10 names were read out and somehow my name was one of them. And so started the flying journey.

Three pilots from ten make it through

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 09:30

I'm always fascinated because, um, you know, it's kind of, you know, often sort of army aviators are, you know, there's that sort of, you know, myth and filming, filming kind of quality about it. Um, and a lot of blokes dream, as you said, it was a very popular choice. Uh, was it the dream? You know, like, I understand that the circumstances and stuff can get all complex. But the flying, was it just what you imagined?

John Milham (Host) · 09:59

100%. It was sensational. You know, pilots, of course, had a 70% failure rate and leading up to it and ours was bang on 70% failure rate out of the 10 guys that got the blue beret on graduation, only 3 got their wings out of the general service officers and the SSOs. I think the SSOs were a fraction higher at about 40% success. I don't know, maybe 50% success. And but going through the flying, the training, you know, flying wild form, you know, in training where we're one rotor diameter away from each other in Black Hawks flying down this close river. And the job of the lead aircraft in wild form is to spit the other aircraft out. So it really hones your reflexes incredibly. Now it's also bloody dangerous, and so they don't do that anymore, and for good reason. Um, but then go from there, the, the operational flying, the formation flying, the low flying, the, the NVG flying, um, the, the hoisting, the, you know, the external loads, the door gunnery, uh, all of that in training was, uh, was just next level. And, uh, but then to take that and do that on operations and do that with real— there's always real consequences. But to do that on a two-way firing range is, is just the next level again. And it was an absolute privilege to be able to do that purely from an aviation point of view, right? Purely from a purest flying perspective. Plenty of days where we looked out the window and said, my God, are we actually getting paid to do this? This is insane. We should be paying them. But, but yeah, just it's a, it's a career like no other. Yeah.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 11:54

I often wonder, you know, people who take up extreme sports, right? But, you know, people who have a job that's extreme like, you know, like flying Black Hawks, do you then, like, on your days off, are you very calm or do you go, you know, do you need that level of adrenaline just to just to jump off a cliff or something just to—

John Milham (Host) · 12:19

Yeah, just to keep it going. Yeah. Horses for courses, I think. I'd say if you ask that question of 10 different Army aviators, you'd probably get 10 different answers. So for me, I always like to think that I was fairly calm, but I know I've got a pretty serious demeanor. Anyway, and I just, I do take most things pretty seriously for whether, you know, for better or for worse. Yeah. But, but it does help put things into perspective for what things are truly dangerous and what things really aren't that dangerous.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 13:00

Yeah. Sounds like the lecture I got from my bungee instructor in New Zealand at some point. Yeah, this is only perceived danger. It's interesting because, you know, jumping ahead a bit, of course, you then post-army, you kept flying, you became the rescue helicopter man, which is, you know, as I imagine personally, is as close to that kind of operational level of flying, you know, that you had in the army. As you can get in the civilian world. Is that the case? You know, like, yeah, next level.

From Army jets to civilian rescue helicopter work

John Milham (Host) · 13:40

Yeah. And that's partly— two things drew me towards that post-Army. One was exactly that. It's as close as I'll get to the operational flying, but also the camaraderie working in a close-knit team. And I, you know, on the rescue aircraft we had a crew of 5, typically a single pilot and then an aircrew officer, also winch operator, a rescue crew officer who went down the wire, and then a doctor and a paramedic. And I referred to it as a team of individual specialists.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 14:16

Yeah.

John Milham (Host) · 14:16

And, and that was so often what it was back in the military as well, right? Yeah, sure. We might have 2 pilots and we might have 2 loadmasters. Beyond the Chinook, we had an aircrewman technician, and then we had technicians on the ground, we had specialist refuelers and ops guys and all this kind of stuff. And it's the whole team that comes together, bringing all of their individual specialties with it. And the second part that really led me towards it was continued service. And, you know, in the military we serve the nation, in the emergency services we serve the community and the state that we're in. And it was a continuation of that service that was very, very important.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 14:56

I love that idea. I personally have a philosophy of service. Is that something you believe elevates us, right? Is that an important— how do you see service, right? When you devote your life to it, how important is it? A value, or is it just a job?

John Milham (Host) · 15:21

Yeah, no, it's, it's so, so much more than a job. And I, I actually believe it's innate for, for most people who go down a form of service. And, and I believe that the military and the emergency services, I believe that people basically self-select into those professions. And interestingly though, and again, we're kind of jumping ahead, but if you had asked me 10 years ago if I was going to become a speaker and a coach and a trainer and all these things, I would have laughed at you. I would have said, not a chance in the world. I'm in a uniform. I'm a doer. I'm an operator. I go and do the job. What I've found is that what I do now through— with my voice, with my pen, with my keyboard, and with connecting with people one-to-one— is actually an incredibly deep and honorable form of service. Yeah. And the difference it makes for people around the world, without blowing my trumpet, but is— and I'm only saying this for the feedback that I've got back from people— is akin to everything that I felt in a form of serving others in the military or in the emergency services or whatnot. So it's a different type of service. And so my catchcry these days is being selfish to be selfless. It's always, always, always with an intention of serving other people.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 17:14

Amazing. I love that frame. I love it. And we'll go, I think we'll come back to that because something you said earlier is, you know, caught my attention. You know, the idea of what you were doing is dangerous, right? And you're like, I think it's probably obvious to everybody listening that it's a dangerous profession being an Army helicopter pilot. Right. But of course, the reality of that is there were a number of— you would have lost friends and team members, you know, because, you know, there were some problems, you know, accidents and so on at training and in service. How do you rationalize, you know, the love of flying and the love of what you're doing and the, you know, the diving into the challenge of being a great pilot it all the time, knowing that you're at the margins of what is kind of a safe, acceptable situation.

The danger becomes normal through incremental training

John Milham (Host) · 18:18

Yeah, the military does an extraordinary job of taking ordinary people and building them to the point where the extraordinary becomes ordinary.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 18:34

Yeah.

John Milham (Host) · 18:35

And they do a brilliant job of it. And so, yes, we knew it was dangerous, but at the same time, it was normal. And that becomes the— and because it's this very, very slow incremental— well, I wouldn't say very slow, but it's an incremental approach to desensitizing ourselves, our reptile brain, into what is life-threatening versus what is normal. And it's like, okay, no, I've been here, I've been somewhere similar to here before. And next thing you know, you're hovering on a cliff edge with your rotors 5 to 10 feet away from rocks, right?

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 19:18

Yeah.

John Milham (Host) · 19:18

1,000, 2,000 feet in the air. And or you're flying in a formation of 4 or 6 aircraft at 50 feet above the ground at 2 rotor diameters between each of you. And next thing you know, you're here and you're just going, this is normal, this is amazing. How good is this? But at the same time, yes, fully acknowledging that it's dangerous, but it's normal for us.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 19:47

Yeah. Amazing. So that takes us to your active service, right? Which is also you know, taking what is an inherently dangerous, you know, so, oh well, risky, you know, um, uh, role and putting it into a circumstance where there is increased risk, right?

John Milham (Host) · 20:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 20:09

How does that feel? I, I know it's a kind of clumsy argument, uh, the question from somebody who hasn't, you know, been in active service, but I'm fascinated at how you gear up for that, right? How do you, you know, is it something you acknowledge, uh, or is it just, or do you like, um, preparing for a grand final with footy, you know, say it's just another day, you know, it's just something I do?

John Milham (Host) · 20:38

Yeah, it depends what level you're at and then what role you're going into, uh, and, and that context there. So, you know, we trying to think of how to bring it quite concisely. You know, we— you're only as good— one of the phrases that we have in the military is you're only as good as your last war. And so leading into East Timor, for example, we hadn't had a war for, you know, 25 years since Vietnam. We'd had a couple of very small-scale local deployments in the near region. But nothing where we'd really deployed. And thankfully, East Timor did not turn out to be anywhere near the level of fighting that was, that was talked about at the time. And so what East Timor did was actually become a really good training ground. So there was some trepidation depending on which circle you're in as to what we're going to do. But pretty much the equipment that we had was capable of working in that theater. When we deployed to Iraq, now we were talking about anti-aircraft missiles the size of telegraph poles and various other types of attacks, you know, gas and chemical weapons and all these other things. And so it wasn't just the flying aspect that we had, but now we needed a whole bunch of equipment modified on the aircraft. We needed extra personal equipment, learn how the equipment works, blah, blah, blah, all in a very short space of time. And, and so that brought with it its own level of anxiety and what are we doing and blah, blah, blah. There was the sense that from a flying perspective, we're going to do mainly the same as what we've done. But there was a whole bunch of other stuff to do. Go to Afghanistan and then it was the next level again of still with a lot more modifications to the aircraft that were required, a far, far higher risk of being shot down and this and that. The environment was huge. And one of the things that was said to me often was that, you know, our greatest threat is surface-to-air missiles and this and that. It's like, no, you've actually got it completely wrong. Our greatest threat is ourselves. Our greatest threat is us making the right decision too late or the wrong decision, and that then leads us down a path where we have an aircraft accident because of our own making. And if you look at the history of aircraft accidents on operations, and indeed if you look through vehicle accidents— vehicle— sorry, deaths in vehicles and vehicle losses, but particularly with aviation, the overwhelming majority of aircraft destroyed through human error of one kind or another. Making the wrong decision, making the right decision too late, other interactions in the cockpit that weren't appropriate. You know, I saw one where an Apache was destroyed. They basically flew it into the ground because they weren't sure how to change the frequency on the radio, and both heads were inside and looked up, there was a Black Hawk in front of them, and they overreacted and And I'm not having a go at the pilots at all, right? I'm just, I'm just saying that, but it was the pilots trying to work out how to change a radio in a certain context that led to that, right?

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 24:15

Yeah.

John Milham (Host) · 24:16

And so there's a, there's absolutely a, there's a, there's a mindset that we're going to serve our country. It's deployment. We're going to do this. This is our mission. We're going to get on with it. We're going to do it well. So there's that confidence there that we've got enough training, we're going to get out there, we're going to do it and do it well. But at the same time, depending on, you know, going to the new theatre for the first time, there's that trepidation, new equipment, new threat, new environment. How are we going to deal with this? When you go back the second time, the third time, of course, there's that level of that level of knowledge, you know, of knowing that, okay, I know how that works, I know how that works, gonna get into here. There's still that I'm going into a war zone and that level of danger, but there's the confidence that goes with that to say we're going to do our job, that's what we're here for.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 25:19

Fascinating. With, um, do you feel like I suppose this is a question for you and what you've observed, right? But so you mentioned how well the Army prepared you for doing your job. But what you've just described is an incredible environment of stress. So you're in threat a lot, right? And the threat's real. So it's a reasonable thing to be in threat, right?

John Milham (Host) · 25:48

Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 25:49

Ah, do you Is that training enough? Are men in particular, or personnel, are they— is that something people are capable of handling all the time? We understand that there's a cost to that, but it just seems like being in that level of stress with those low margins, that would be something that nobody is equipped to handle.

John Milham (Host) · 26:19

Um, I, I believe that it's that with the, depending on your training leading into it and how well you've been desensitized, um, that you are able to, uh, to deal with it for a period of time. Let's just call that X. Now what X is for me may well be different to what X is for you, and, uh, and then also depends on the intensity of what goes on. And, you know, and whether it's the threat of this thing happening, right, or if you end up really in the middle of it, and then that will impact on X and how long you can be in it. There's a number of studies that looking at when you go through, you know, a firefight. And I've never been in a firefight on the ground. Rockets and bullets fly around when we're flying or when we come in for a landing. But I've never been a soldier on the ground, so I can't say what that is like. But there's a real dopamine rush when you survive that and get back out of it.. And it's almost like a hit, you know, where you go, man, I want to— that was amazing. Let's go and do that again. Right now, that's not rational. Let me go back into that environment again, right? Because I just feel amazing to get out of that, you know. It makes no rational sense to go back, to want to go back into that. But that is something that we— that a lot of soldiers go through, right? They have real high-risk environment, real high-risk events, you know, firefights or whatever, and they get out of it, they're alive, they're unscathed, and there's this desire to go back and do it again. And that's one of the reasons, out of a number, but that's one of the reasons why, you know, a lot of service personnel go on operations, go into a war zone, whatever it is, come home and now life is dull and boring. There's no dopamine hits, right? I want to go back there. I want to go back there again. And I was like that after a number of my deployments. It took me months to go, no, actually, it doesn't make any sense. You don't want to go back there. Go back there to serve. Yes, do all those things. That's one thing. But, but there's a real dopamine hit that you're missing, that you're wanting, that you're, that you're craving for. Pretty much.

Workplace bullying breaks his ability to speak

John Milham (Host) · 30:59

And then the pressures of command at the end were just the final— well, towards the final straw. But yeah, so I mean, if I go back, mine started in 2000 It was my first trip home from my first deployment in East Timor and where nothing particularly happened. Like it was, it was all but a non-event. Some great flying, some incredible flying and all that. But really nothing of note happened. And yeah, I was going into a shopping centre to get a loaf of bread, went through here in Brisbane and big double glass sliding doors opened and just seemed like a flood of people came towards me and I just flattened myself against the glass shopfront. My body just threw itself against this shopfront to get out of the way. And I remember almost looking at myself going, "What's up with you? What's going on there?" And not being able to answer myself. And it's like just petrified. And anyway, the flood turned to a trickle and I eventually peeled myself off the glass, got in, got the loaf of bread and ran away, basically. And I didn't tell a soul about that. I didn't tell my wife, I didn't tell my mates, anything like that, because I was confused, embarrassed. I didn't know what— I now know that was a panic attack. Yeah, yeah. But at the time, I had no language to wrap around that. I had no understanding of what that was. It just hit me out of the blue. And so I didn't tell anybody about that. And then 2003, some real workplace bullying started to happen with a particular individual. And that was really, really unsettling for me to the point where a particular thing happened and I wasn't able to raise my hand in public. Just ask a question. Yeah. Now, I've never had a problem with that, but every time after that series of events that I tried to raise my hand, I would just explode in sweats. My heart would race. I'd feel like it literally wanted to jump out of my chest. And I'd be trembling and shaking. And it's like, just because I'm trying to put my hand up to ask a question. Unbelievable. And that ended up lasting for about 15 years before I was finally able to deal with that fully. I learnt ways to mask it and whatnot, but it was just destructive in stopping me from doing so many things. And then as time progressed, I just found I was getting a shorter and shorter fuse. You know, people were— certain individuals, certain individuals were just getting on my nerves like nothing else. And and, you know, I was being undermined and undermined and undermined by, by, again, by just by certain individuals. And, um, and then, you know, 2007, um, in Afghanistan as the, as the CO, and, um, just, yeah, I've got standards this high. Yeah, I can't reach, right, let alone anybody else having a hope of reaching them. And I'm just continually angry and frustrated. And there's a young female officer that I had in the office, giving her a dressing down because of some, I'm sure, the most ridiculous misdemeanour. And unfortunately, I can't remember that young lady's name to apologise to her. I can't remember, no idea what it was about. But I just remember giving her the dressing down and then realised she wasn't looking at my face anymore. She was looking at my hands and I looked down and my hands were just shaking like crazy. And, um, and I tried to stop them and I couldn't stop them. I was like, oh my God, the, the game is up. And, uh, and then I, I, yeah, asked for, asked for some help. Uh, took a number of months to be able to see a psych. Um, uh, when I did, the psych and I didn't gel. We just, yeah, it just was not working. And I thought, if this is the best the Army can do and the best that psychology as a field can do, then I'll do it myself. And started hitting the bottle and just down this self-destructive path, which, of course, when you're in the middle of it, you think that you're doing not necessarily the right thing, but you think you're doing something that at least eases the pain. Pain. And yeah, and so I had night terrors coming back. I had 3 little kids under 8 and I didn't want to be around them and noise and mess and whatever. Bullying was rife at work again from just 1 or 2 individuals. And I was like, you know what, I don't want to be at work. I don't want to be at home. I don't want to be awake and I don't want to be asleep. I just don't want to be anymore. Like, I'm done. And so I started working out ways to end my life. And so Monday morning at home, laying pavers. And so anybody who's listening to this, if you're pretty handy on the tools, I want you to imagine this. So just take notes. Pretty complicated.. We had a rectangular area, we got two 45-degree corners, then we got square pavers. All right, it sounded pretty complicated so far. No, and anyway, no matter what I was doing—

Collapse on the ground, unable to go through with it

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 38:36

My goodness. So many, so much in that. And congratulations on on, you know, dealing, you know, sharing that and dealing with that, right? And a lot resonates, you know, having, you know, a lived experience myself. But it's interesting at that moment, right, the war between, you know, what you, you know, what you're choosing to do, which seems right, but underneath, obviously, there was something that you, you know, you were anchored to as well, so that, you know, you ended up just you know, on the ground convulsing. That's an extraordinary thing.

John Milham (Host) · 39:14

You protected yourself ultimately. Yes. Yeah, yeah, that's right. And, and that's, you know, the drinking and everything else that I was doing. Yeah, uh, that was my reptile brain trying to protect myself, trying to protect yourself. Yeah, yeah, find the solution. That's right. In each moment in time, not realizing that, um, that might protect me now, but it does me no benefits in the long run to keep that behavior up.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 39:41

So, yeah, very challenging. The next period, how did you go with accepting where you were?

John Milham (Host) · 39:50

Yeah. Oh, mate, you just hit the word on the head. You just nailed it with that one. And quite frankly, I did not accept it. And that only prolonged the agony. So, you know, I said to myself, you know, a bunch of different things, but one of them was, you know, I was 35 when that happened. And so I said to myself, you know, will this matter when I'm 50? No, no way. I'm going to be through this by then. Will it matter when I'm 40? No, no way. I'll be through it by then. Will it matter when I'm 38? Oh, will it matter when I'm 36? Oh, shit. And right, I've got to get on with it. And so I, in true Humphreys military fashion, it was just up the guts with lots of smoke, head down, bum up, make it happen, drive on with the plan. And so I did from a very logic head perspective.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 40:56

Wow.

John Milham (Host) · 40:57

And that got me moving, right? And psychiatrist, psychologist, counselor, like a whole bunch of all the professional help, which was just magic, which, you know, anybody— it's not a privileged white male thing. It's anybody who served in the Defence Force is able to get that help that they need. And But whilst I was working on my head and I was getting myself, what I realized is that I got back to work, but deep down I still had this incredible feeling of shame and failure. And so how I describe it is that I got functional again. Yeah, but I still wasn't living properly. And so it was time to leave the Army for a bunch of different reasons. And. And I said to my wife, I said, listen, I want you to— I don't want anybody knowing about this as we go into the civilian world. I want to keep it a secret. And so she agreed. What we didn't— and so people who would normally come around to the house were now not welcome. I just didn't want anybody coming around. And so we really rebuilt our lives so that this topic would never come up. And it wasn't until we're getting some professional coaching or business coaching 7 years later. And this lady said, you know, Kevin, you're doing pretty well, but there's something you're not telling me. I know you're not being honest with me about something.

Seven years hiding the secret, then a coach who won't let him lie

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 42:27

Yeah.

John Milham (Host) · 42:27

I was like, nothing to see here. It's all good. No worries. And she's like, well, I know you're lying to me. So anytime you want to fess up is good. But if you don't fess up, we're not coaching anymore. Yeah. I was like, ooh.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 42:40

Wow.

John Milham (Host) · 42:42

And, uh, and, you know, tough love. Um, but it was the agreement that we, that we'd signed, right? We will be completely open and honest, do everything that she asks. If we don't, the coaching agreement is terminated. That's it. We'd signed that, we agreed. And, um, anyway, so a little bit more went by, and then she got the secret out of me. And, um, and I'm bawling my eyes out as I'm telling her my my secret and everything that had happened. And that word that you said before, she asked me that one question. She said, have you accepted that you've got mental illness and that you contemplated suicide? Like, nah, it is their fault. They did this and they did that and that wasn't fair and this isn't right and that's not okay. And look where I am now because of all that, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she said, what if acceptance has got nothing to do with blame or guilt? Yeah, what if acceptance just means you don't like it, want it, or condone it? It just is. It's just a fact of history now, and it's got no more relevance than the color of the chair or the color of the carpet. And I said, you know what, I can work with that. I can absolutely work with that. And, and, and so by shifting that, my, my understanding that I had put blame and guilt to be associated with that word of acceptance. By removing that, I said, you know what, I can accept that. I can absolutely accept that. And now being able to come full circle and take complete responsibility for every part that I played in my mental health deteriorating, for every part that I played in my responses in every interpersonal relationship good, bad, or indifferent. I take my responsibility for everything that I own and don't take responsibility for stuff that other people own. And now it's just liberating once I learned how to accept it.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 44:48

That's beautiful. Congratulations on getting to that level of of personal capacity. That's not everyone. And of course, you came from an organisation where, you know, the Royal Commission has just highlighted exactly how many colleagues, you know, people who go through the service and having a similar experience, how often they don't find that way out.

John Milham (Host) · 45:16

Yeah.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 45:18

So did that— your particular journey, the understanding, the work you did to start, you know, living in that space of acceptance, not condoning, as you say, or doing it. How did that become something you wanted to help others go through?

John Milham (Host) · 45:37

Yeah. So when this coach asked me about acceptance and, you know, got through that piece, and then she said, okay, close your eyes. And she said, I want you to imagine that everything you've just told me has now been published on social media. Yeah, I'll bawl my eyes out again. It's like, no way, no way in the world, no way. And she said, okay, um, you're gonna say everything that you just told me in front of other people within 2 months. I was like, no, I'm not. Anyway, a month later in the group or in the business mentoring group, which wasn't a psychology group, wasn't a counseling group, wasn't a specific men's networking group, right? It was a— yeah, well, yeah, business group, right? And anyway, 150 people there. But that was where I felt was the safe place for me to take this next step. And Anyway, lady on stage talking about things that are holding us back from a business perspective, blah, blah, blah. And she said, anyone got anything they'd like to add? And Megan was sitting behind me and I put my hand up and she grabbed the person beside her and said, oh my God, I don't know what's about to happen, but he hasn't put his hand up in years.

Putting his hand up for the first time in years

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 47:01

Yeah. Wow.

John Milham (Host) · 47:02

And anyway, and I stood up and I remember—

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 47:06

so symbolic putting your hand up after all that time.

John Milham (Host) · 47:08

Hugely. Yeah, hugely. Yeah. And anyway, yeah, I said, if I can't get through anything more, I just want to say thank you to my wife for being there with me throughout all these years. And I took about no more than about 5 minutes to just blurt out through bawling tears, just blurt out, you know, the secret, the history there. And I'm not kidding you. When I say there were men walking across tables to get to me, the place erupted. The place just erupted when I stopped talking. And there were men walking across tables to get to me, to give me a hug and say, mate, your story is just like mine. I just haven't got the guts to talk about it yet. And then the lady who ran the group, she said, Roddy, you're on stage next month. And I'm like, no, I'm not. Anyway, next month, got up and spoke for 20 minutes, trembling, bubbling, you know, blah, blah, blah. And this is the guy who is quite happy to stand in front of 500, 1,000 people briefing in the Army.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 48:09

Yeah, yeah, doing the briefing.

John Milham (Host) · 48:11

Yeah, do all that kind of stuff.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 48:13

Operations-wise.

John Milham (Host) · 48:13

Yeah, but now talking about this stuff. Oh my God. And anyway, she said, right, 20 minutes. I did that. Managed to get through it crying, bumbling, shaking, trembling. She said, right, 2 months' time, you're back up again. You got 30 minutes.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 48:29

Man, anyway, it's a form of CBT, right?

John Milham (Host) · 48:34

You know, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And after each time I did it, men coming up to me telling me a bit about their story, women coming up to me saying, for God's sake, can you please keep saying this so that other men can hear it? And anyway, and so I started doing a little bit more. I volunteered for Beyond Blue and then every time I spoke, there were just so many people who got something out of it. And then it ended up someone said, how much can I pay you? And so it transitioned into a paid thing from a speaking perspective, right? But from a veteran suicide perspective, I was now starting to get my voice and to speak more about my experiences. And it wasn't just the rockets and bullets, right? It was the way people were treating other people in the organization. And, you know, veteran suicide was— has been a scourge. Suicide is the scourge of humanity, I believe. And But of course, veteran suicide, becoming more aware of that throughout the 2010s in the media and whatnot. And then December 2019, one of the pilots that I— that was in my squadron that I flew with in Afghanistan, he took his own life. And so Anzac Day 2020, I was in Townsville up there flying the rescue chopper. And of course it was COVID Anzac Day, so no marches or anything like that. And I went to the Cenotaph. I was on night shift, and so I went to the Cenotaph after I got off shift in Townsville, and I was just reflecting. He was a Townsville local, this fellow Steve Fazell, and I was reflecting on my life and what, you know, which path I might have gone down and his life and those lives lost in service and lost after service and And I came around the corner to the Cenotaph, and on the right is a rock plinth for the Royal Australian Regiment and the infantry. And on the ground beside it was an A5-sized funeral service booklet for a Private Bradley Carr. Now, I didn't know Bradley. I'd never met the man, but he took his life on Anzac Day the year before. And he was 34 when he took his life, and I was 35 when I almost took mine. And, and I just looked at it and I thought, my God, is this really the best that the family has to put rocks on a funeral booklet? Yeah, yeah, yeah. For their loved one. That's not right. That's not okay. And, and I know that families of But generally speaking, I'm just going to go a slight tangent and come back. Of course, the military— the number one thing in the military is to be proud, to be proud of your mates, to be proud of your service, to be proud of your country, to be proud, to be proud, to be proud. And that's backed up very quickly by don't you ever go jack on your mates, right? And so when I had my breakdown, I felt I was the jackass person in the world. How dare I? Right. And there is a belief. I hope it's changing now, but there was a belief that if someone takes their own life in the military, then that's the ultimate jackass. Right. And so, like I say, I really hope that is changing now as time goes by. And so Other soldiers know that. A lot of families know that. And I believe that there is really nowhere for families to go on Days of Remembrance where they felt welcome. Yeah. Because there was this undercurrent of that person being jack by taking their own life. And so I looked around and I thought, this has got to change. And I just went, you know, I'm going to get a memorial put in right there, pointed to an area. And so that was Anzac Day 2020. And on September 10th, World Suicide Prevention Day in 2020, we unveiled the first Cor Infinitus memorial there in Townsville. And Cor Infinitus is Latin for infinite courage. The word cor spelled C-O-R is— means heart. And heart was the original root word of the word courage, because the original meaning of courage was to speak one's mind by telling all one's heart. And I thought, if ever that describes a group of people, that describes the families of those who have served and taken their own life.

A funeral booklet at the Cenotaph on Anzac Day

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 53:37

Yeah, wow.

John Milham (Host) · 53:38

And the families need infinite courage. You know, they need a lot of courage dealing with all the things that was happening for that person leading up to them taking their life.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 53:47

Yeah.

John Milham (Host) · 53:47

And then for infinity afterwards to deal with the unanswered questions, right, that go on afterwards. And so these memorials are completely anonymous. It's— there's no names on them. There never will be. It's not about Bradley. It's not about Steve. It's not about Kevin. It's about every single person who has served and taken their own life. It's about every single family member that has loved someone who has served and taken their own life. And there's help numbers there for people if they're vulnerable, if they're troubled standing there looking at these memorials. But I reckon more importantly, the third part that's on these plaques, these memorials, is a statement from 5 people who can help them step back, seek help and seek life. And who those people are is— I reflected on why didn't I go? And because ultimately my wife and children. And I thought, how do I get my wife and kids to talk to everybody? Right. That's ridiculous. And then I realized not everybody's got a wife and kids, right?

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 54:59

Yeah. No.

John Milham (Host) · 55:00

I said, but you know what, everyone's got a parent. Everyone had a mate at some stage. And so I've got a parent, a partner, a child, a mate, and someone who attempted suicide but survived. Lived to tell. And is very happy that they're still here. And I got messages from those 5 people. And they are real messages from real people who have experience of veteran suicide. Wow. And they're on this plaque and each one individually you can tell the deeper story, but together they're quite a powerful message to help grab people and say, hey, there's another way, you don't need to do this. And so there's 21 of those memorials now, various parts around the country, and my, you know, from from Kuranda through to the Shrine of Remembrance down in Melbourne, over in Adelaide, and there's more coming planned in Darwin and Perth, in Hobart— or sorry, just out of Hobart— and various other places. And it's my aim to put one in every city, suburb, and town around the country so that families have got somewhere to go that's tangible and they can mourn and grieve and hope and and heal.

Twenty-one Cor Infinitus memorials across the country

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 56:19

Absolutely. It's so beautiful and powerful. I'd love— to me, stick it on every cenotaph and every memorial in the country. Why not?

John Milham (Host) · 56:29

Yeah.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 56:30

So much meaning in it.

John Milham (Host) · 56:32

Yeah.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 56:32

So the mission became to share that wonderful wisdom to help people like yourself anchor in that moment. Do you think, you know, and it's an incredible vision, I love it, that's your bit. What does the community need to do in response to something that is just really unfair and unconscionable? The loss of men of service too young for what seems to be preventable reasons?

John Milham (Host) · 57:12

Yeah, you know, in many ways, I think if I knew the answer to that, the problem would be less than half of what it currently is. And I don't know that anybody has the true real answer for that. The one thing I would say is to offer compassion and understanding rather than judgment is the number one thing that we need. You know, choosing suicide, I can't speak for every single person, but it often, as I said at the time, as I said earlier, at the time when you're in that moment, it actually seems like a rational thing to do. Yeah. Right? But your mind is irrational. Your mind is unwell. But to you in that moment, it seems rational and it seems like you are doing the selfless thing to make everybody's life better. Right? So, but we know that it's not right. We know the ripple effect is, you know, is huge. At least 11 people for every one suicide. And so from a community perspective, I would ask for understanding and compassion, especially towards those veterans. But where it's needed almost doubly so is actually for the families.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 58:46

For the families. Yeah.

John Milham (Host) · 58:47

Don't shun the families. Don't turn your back on them. Don't think less of them. It wasn't their choice, right? It's now their burden to carry, but it wasn't their choice. And the families need a lot more understanding, a lot more compassion than what they currently get. Beautiful.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 59:12

You mentioned earlier your— I think before we we started recording, that your son was following in your footsteps and that, you know, other young members of your family had chosen service as well, which is, you know, like I could imagine you would feel pride. Do you also feel fear? Is that a worry for you?

John Milham (Host) · 59:38

It's not. We've had some really very open, very raw conversations. You know, my kids know my full history and my full story, and we have a really, really good relationship to be able to have very open and frank conversations. And so, you know, I'd like to think that my kids have both eyes wide open. And, you know, I I was very blinkered when I went in there. As I said, I just wanted to be green, fly helicopters, go hard. Yeah. And I had this very naive expectation that everyone else was the same as me, right? And that everyone goes through the college of knowledge, as we called it. And we all went through the cookie cutter and we all came out exactly the same way, exactly the same shape, exactly the same thoughts, exactly the same expectations. Nothing could be further from the truth. And so, yeah, my kids, I'd like to think, have got a both eyes wide open approach to a lot of things about life now that I necessarily— I didn't necessarily, you know, from the— and that's about dealing with the workforce and dealing with the pressures and all those things from the point of doing a dangerous job. Yeah, there's that element of fear that's associated with that, that any parent would have, but I'm quite confident that they've got good heads on their shoulders and yeah, they're okay.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 1:01:24

So you've done it, the lived experience trickled into a little bit of their preparation, which is wonderful, right? As well as, you know, the organization which is supporting other families. On that, would you encourage young people to take on service?

John Milham (Host) · 1:01:39

Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I'm all for it. And I said to our children growing up that if you want to join the military, we support you 100%. If you don't want to join the military, we support you 100%. Whatever you do, have a purpose, have a passion, and go and do it. Not because you want to do it for your own sake, but do it because you want to do good in the world. And so I believe that serving through the profession of arms is the most noble form of vocation you could ever ask of anybody. And so I do absolutely promote it or encourage it for people. That said, if they don't want to go and do it, no problem. Just do good in the world somewhere and be passionate about it.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 1:02:34

Yeah, a million pathways to being a good person.

John Milham (Host) · 1:02:37

Absolutely.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 1:02:39

Yeah, yeah, incredible. Just to maybe finish up, what It's been an amazing journey to the wisdom you've shared with us today and the work you've done, which is just an incredible CV to have. What are you looking forward to now? What's— you're still in service to community and you so eloquently described coaching and mentoring and sharing your wisdom. Yeah. What are you going to look forward to?

John Milham (Host) · 1:03:14

Yeah, I'm looking forward to help guiding others navigate this path of leadership, whatever that is for them. And for people who have gone down a path that isn't so healthy, then help them turn that around and come back out. Those who are healthy, then help them stay healthy. But ultimately, it's about helping guide and shape leaders to be selfish, to be selfless, so that they can continue to do amazing things in the world.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 1:03:53

Yeah, that's brilliant. What would you say, you know, we finish or, you know, often ask for you to throw out a word or two to to share your wisdom to the world, to the people who need to listen. What would you offer those people out there? They're going to give you 1 minute to think, to listen to what you've got to say.

John Milham (Host) · 1:04:17

Yeah. If you do nothing else, be intentional. Whenever you are, if you're anything less than intentional, then you're off the mark, you're aimless. You might be well-intentioned, but there's no guarantees that it's actually going to land, whatever it is, right? But when you're intentional, then that comes across in your words, in your actions, in your posture, in your tone, in everything about you. And then there's very little room for miscommunication. And also you yourself will be on your path. You'll be intentional about what you want to do. Today, tomorrow, and the next day to achieve your goals and make the world a better place.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 1:05:06

Fantastic. So, mate, thank you so much. First of all, thank you for your service, and then thank you for sharing the journey that you've had through that and into what is an amazing contribution beyond that, just the service. So it's been fascinating, mate, and I've really enjoyed chatting Thank you so much, Kevin.

John Milham (Host) · 1:05:29

Thanks, John. Thoroughly enjoyed it as well, mate. Thank you so, so much.

Kevin Humphreys (Guest) · 1:05:33

Good luck, mate, and continue that wonderful work you're doing.

John Milham (Host) · 1:05:36

Cheers, bro. Cheers. Thank you for listening to this episode of Kintsugi Heroes. Thank you to Colin Lilly for permission to use Broken as our theme music for this series. If you enjoyed this conversation, share the podcast with a friend and let us know by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to support Kintsugi Heroes and the stories we share, head to kintsugiheroes.com.au and follow the instructions to make a tax-deductible donation. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.

From the Blue Mountains to piloting helicopters and public speaking, with Kevin Humphreys

Overview

Chapters

A boy mesmerized by rescue helicopters

Keeping the flying dream hidden from his brother

Charged an hour before the pilot selection board

Three pilots from ten make it through

From Army jets to civilian rescue helicopter work

The danger becomes normal through incremental training

The panic attack at the shopping centre

Workplace bullying breaks his ability to speak

Laying pavers and the spiral into suicidality

Collapse on the ground, unable to go through with it

Seven years hiding the secret, then a coach who won't let him lie

Putting his hand up for the first time in years

A funeral booklet at the Cenotaph on Anzac Day

Twenty-one Cor Infinitus memorials across the country

In Kevin Humphreys's words

Kevin Humphreys, today

Common questions

Is this a true story?

What organisation produced this?

What did Kevin Humphreys learn from this experience?

What would Kevin Humphreys want listeners to know?

What helped Kevin Humphreys most along the way?

Transcript

A boy mesmerized by rescue helicopters

Support

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Understanding Psychological Recovery After Disaster with Rob Gordon

What would Kevin Humphreys tell someone going through something similar?

What topics does this episode cover?

Keeping the flying dream hidden from his brother

Charged an hour before the pilot selection board

Three pilots from ten make it through

From Army jets to civilian rescue helicopter work

The danger becomes normal through incremental training

The panic attack at the shopping centre

Workplace bullying breaks his ability to speak

Laying pavers and the spiral into suicidality

Collapse on the ground, unable to go through with it

Seven years hiding the secret, then a coach who won't let him lie

Putting his hand up for the first time in years

A funeral booklet at the Cenotaph on Anzac Day

Twenty-one Cor Infinitus memorials across the country