Kobe Steele
The Orangutans Gave Me Back My Happiness
After losing her daughter to a concrete truck, Kobe found her reason to live again in the eyes of a grieving orangutan.
Hear this story
Kintsugi Studio
Kobe Steele
After losing her daughter to a concrete truck, Kobe found her reason to live again in the eyes of a grieving orangutan.
Hear this story
Kobe Steele has always loved animals. She grew up with dogs, worked in media as a TV and radio host, and built a life around the creatures she cared for. Then, in Amsterdam, her daughter Kristen was killed by a concrete truck at a red light. She was in sight of her workplace, waiting to cycle through. Kobe fell into a grief so complete that she stopped leaving her house. She cried for three years. She tried to take her own life twice.
A friend named Stephen, who had just returned from Borneo, made her a promise that felt impossible: the orangutans would heal her. Kobe didn't believe him. But Stephen kept asking until she finally said yes. In the care centre in Borneo, she met a small, bald orphan orangutan named Faisal. When he looked into her eyes, something moved through her that she had thought was gone forever. She felt lightning bolts of joy. Another young orangutan, Krista, took her by the hand and led her into the forest. For the first time in years, Kobe felt purpose again.
She came home to Australia and founded Orangutan Foundation International Australia, raising $250,000 to save the Roakuna Legacy Forest from palm oil plantations. She had no charity experience. She did it anyway, driven by what the orangutans had given back to her. Now she runs eco tours to Borneo, takes people into the wild to see orangutans, and watches their lives change in ways they cannot explain. A woman with terminal brain cancer found the courage to have surgery that saved her life. Others report new compassion, new connection to nature, new reasons to keep going. Kobe's message is simple: find your happy place. Listen to your heart. Give yourself moments of happiness in nature. That is where healing lives.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses grief & loss, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au • GriefLine: 1300 845 745 · griefline.org.au
“That little boy Faisal gave me back my happiness. I'm sorry, I'm going to cry. It was, I just didn't think I could feel that way again.”
“Orangutans have the same emotions as us. So you know, they feel the same sadness the same depression, the same joy, the same trauma. They have great senses of humor.”
“The power of one is real. And, um, whether it's something small or whether it's something big, anything you do can make a difference to animals in our world.”
The hero, today
When Faisal looked into Kobe's eyes, she felt lightning bolts of joy shoot through her, and she realised orangutans have the same emotional capacity as humans and can sense the sadness in a person's heart. Kobe raised $250,000 to save the Roakuna Legacy Forest by starting Orangutan Foundation International Australia with no prior charity experience, driven by what the orangutans had given her. Almost 90% of Borneo's forests have been destroyed by palm oil plantations in the last 20 years, fragmenting orangutan habitat so severely that releasing rehabilitated orangutans back into the wild requires connected forests, enough food, and careful placement of dominant males. Kobe avoids palm oil by reading ingredient lists for the names 'vegetable oil' and 'vegetable fat' on food labels and checking product websites for lists of alternative names, and says that once you know what to buy, it becomes second nature. The people Kobe takes on eco tours to see wild orangutans are changed by the experience in ways they cannot explain, reporting more compassion, empathy, and connection to nature, and some finding the courage to face major life challenges. Kobe's message to anyone struggling is to find some healing and quiet time in nature, whether in your local park or the country, and to give yourself moments of happiness instead of being caught up in the chaos of the world.
Yes. Kobe Steele is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
When Faisal looked into Kobe's eyes, she felt lightning bolts of joy shoot through her, and she realised orangutans have the same emotional capacity as humans and can sense the sadness in a person's heart.
Kobe raised $250,000 to save the Roakuna Legacy Forest by starting Orangutan Foundation International Australia with no prior charity experience, driven by what the orangutans had given her.
Almost 90% of Borneo's forests have been destroyed by palm oil plantations in the last 20 years, fragmenting orangutan habitat so severely that releasing rehabilitated orangutans back into the wild requires connected forests, enough food, and careful placement of dominant males.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 00:02
Welcome to another episode of Animals and Us. Joining us today is a well-known and highly respected conservationist, Coby Steele. With a background in media as a TV and radio host, Coby is now dedicated to protecting orangutans and their habitats. As the founder and president of the Orangutan Foundation International Australia, Coby raises vital funds and public awareness to preserve critical orangutan habitats in Borneo, combating the threats posed by the palm oil industry. Coby's contributions have been recognized with the Medal of the Order of Australia. Orangutans, however, entered Coby's life in the most tragic circumstances. In this episode, Coby bravely shares her journey with orangutans, how they changed her life, and what we can do to help save them.
Kobe Steele (Guest) · 00:56
When this day is done.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 01:00
Hello, Cobie Steele. Welcome to Animals and Us. Thank you, Natalie.
Kobe Steele (Guest) · 01:05
Thank you for having me.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 01:06
Well, this is the second time I've interviewed you because Cobie very kindly shared her story with me for my book, From the Campfire for a Woman's Heart. So it's a great privilege to hear your story. And I know that the story that you're going to share with us does come from the heart and it is very emotional story, so I really appreciate the time in sharing it with us.
Kobe Steele (Guest) · 01:30
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Kobe avoids palm oil by reading ingredient lists for the names 'vegetable oil' and 'vegetable fat' on food labels and checking product websites for lists of alternative names, and says that once you know what to buy, it becomes second nature.
This conversation includes a life with animals, kristen on the bicycle, three years of crying, stephen's strange promise, faisal's face and krista takes her hand.
Oh, no problem, and excuse any tears if tears come. It really doesn't matter. So yeah, ignore them if they happen.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 01:38
Let's start at the beginning with how animals first came into your life.
Kobe Steele (Guest) · 01:44
Oh gosh, well, probably much like yourself, I have always been an animal person. And when I say that, just my local, you know, the local dogs and animals here in Australia. I've had a dog my whole life. In most cases, I've had 2 or 3 at a time. And so just like everybody else, I just adore dogs and cats and every other species that I've ever had anything to do with. But just in a normal way. I had nothing to do with orangutans or primates. I didn't run a charity. I just, you know, I just had my beautiful dogs and loved them to pieces and, and they were like my children and still are.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 02:22
And how did the orangutans come into your life? I know it's a long story, so could we go back to the start of that story?
Kobe Steele (Guest) · 02:29
Well, like, like we just said, I had nothing to do with orangutans. They weren't a part of my reality. Uh, the only thing I really knew about orangutans was that my daughter and I, uh, when she was probably a teenager, she and I used to watch these Steve Irwin documentaries, and they were, they were fun and funny, and he was funny, and he did this wonderful a wonderful one about orangutans. And in particular, there was a mother and a baby orangutan, and he climbed up a tree with them, and it was hilarious. And Kristen and I used to sit there and watch it again and again because the baby orangutans was so, so cute. And that was the only thing I knew about orangutans, so I never thought they would be part of my life. But, um, okay, so, so how, how I became involved with orangutans is a bit long. Um, my beautiful daughter Kristen is the reason I'm sitting here today, and all the work that I do with orangutans is her legacy. I take credit for it, but she holds my hand every step of the way. Kristen finished university here in Australia and she went off traveling like all our kids do, or most of our kids seem to do. And she ended up living in London and then she moved to Amsterdam. She met the love of her life. She was about to get married. I missed her like crazy. I was a single mom. She was my reason for living. I couldn't wait for her to come home, but I knew she was off having the best life. One night I got the phone call that absolutely nobody, nobody expects to get. And Kristen was on a bicycle in Amsterdam riding to work. She was literally in sight of her work, like, you know, less than a block away. And she stopped at a red light. She was in the bike lane in Amsterdam, you know, mostly bikes, not many cars and things. And she was stopped at a set of lights, wasn't doing anything, just waiting for the lights to turn. And she was the first in a line of about 12 people. And just out of nowhere, a concrete truck came around the corner. He was obviously having more than a bad day. I think he was agitated and he wasn't paying attention. He swerved around the corner and he wanted to turn right. He paid no attention to anything or anyone and against— kind of swerved into the bike lane and stopped. At that time, the red light went green. Kristin being the first in that arch, she went straight ahead. This guy just ignored all the bikes and he turned right and he knocked her off her bike and she fell under the truck and he crushed her. It was, it was horrendous. And, and nothing can prepare you for that. Nothing. It's just so sudden. Being my reason for living and what, and what I thought was my purpose in life. And I thought my purpose in life forever until I go, I was to be Kristen's mum. And it was just the most joyous, joyous job. Me being a single mum and having her young, we grew up together. So, you know, for her to be gone was just beyond anything that I could cope with. I went into, of course, like anyone, I went into absolute deep, deep grief. I think I cried for 3 years. I just cried and cried and cried. I did not stop crying. And I thought that there was no reason to be here. I tried to kill myself twice. Thank goodness I was unsuccessful. But you're not thinking logically during those times. I just fell apart. I became agoraphobic. I'm actually normally quite a confident outgoing person, but I just stayed home. I didn't go out. I couldn't cope with speaking to people, so I was just a big mess. And I used to know that Christian would be looking at me going, "For goodness sake, like, you know, you should be out there living for both of us. What are you doing, like, wasting your life? You know, you've got to live for me too." So I lived with the guilt of just wasting away doing nothing. Fast forward a little bit, I had and have a dear friend, Dr. Stephen Van Mill, who now runs Byron Bay Wildlife hospital, but at that time he was working for Channel 9 and he was, uh, the, the animal guy for all the documentaries and 60 Minutes and those things. And he had just come back from Borneo and he'd done a documentary about the woman that I now work with, uh, Dr. Birute Galdikas. It was called The Last Trymate and it was fantastic and still is fantastic for anyone that wants to watch it. Stephen came over to the Gold Coast, he lived in Perth, and he had dinner with me and he hadn't seen me since Kristen had died. And, you know, we were sitting there eating. And, and one of the things that I learned through losing Kristen is that people have absolutely no idea what to say to you when you've lost a child. It's bad enough if you lose a friend or your parents. But when you lose a child, it's everyone's worst nightmare. And, and people are awkward and weird around you. And they would much rather run screaming from the room, or hide behind, you know, a shopping aisle than to actually talk to you. And so I got used to that. So what I learned was that if anyone actually did hang around and talk to me and, um, and discuss things with me, I was so grateful to them because I knew that it was really hard for them. And so people say the weirdest stuff because they're nervous or awkward. And so I just learned to be grateful to anyone and everyone who said anything. And I used to agree with everything that anyone said. So Stephen said to me— Stephen said to me over this dinner— he could see that I was pretty messed up. Um, he said to me, Kobi, I'm going to take you to the orangutans and the orangutans are going to heal you. Now I got to say, that's the weirdest thing that anybody had said to me. Um, I never thought about orangutans at all in the last, you know, the last while. And, um, of course nothing was going to heal me. I was never leaving my house again. Um, so I smiled at him as, as I used to do, and I agreed with him completely and said that would be amazing, thank you. But of course, I knew that that was never going to happen. But God loves Stephen, and I'll be grateful to him forever. To him, he was like a dog with a bone. So, so, you know, he rang me the next few days and said, okay, we're going to Borneo, and make an excuse, then another excuse. I always had an excuse for why I couldn't go, and he didn't let up. So he just kept at me until finally I turned 50, and, um, and it was just after my birthday, and he was not going away. And so I thought, well, you know, it might be good if I could get out, maybe being in the jungles of Borneo will give me some peace and some healing, because I think most people know that nature is the greatest healer. Well, for me, for me it is. And I didn't know that then, but I know that now. So, so I agreed to go with him. So I went to Borneo. I now do eco tours to raise money for orangutans. And it was quite a similar trip that I took that time. I spent a few days in, in the wild with orangutans in Tanjung Puting National Park. And oh, Natalie, it was amazing. But at the same time, um, I had stopped feeling happiness. I never felt joy. I could fake smile really, really well, but my heart was absolutely dead inside. And so I was seeing all these beautiful, beautiful animals, and I can't tell you how amazing it was, but I still didn't feel happiness. I just felt dead inside. And then, um, Stephen was able to take me into the Orangutan Foundation International Care Center, which is where OFI— I'll say OFI because it's quicker— where OFI rehabilitate orphan orangutans that they've rescued, um, and injured orangutans. And it was really special because it's closed to the general public, but because he'd made a documentary there, he got permission to take me there. So we were looking at all the beautiful, beautiful orangutans at the care center. There's over 300, so there's a lot of orangutans. Um, and he took me to what we'll call the infant section. It's probably 3, 4, 5-year-old orangutans. I'll kindy kids. And so, and they go each day as part of rehabilitation to the playground, and then they learn to climb trees and build nests and what foods to eat and just basically learn everything they need to know to be orangutans. And it's a really long process. But I went to kindy, which was full of gorgeous little 3, 4, 5-year-old orangutans. And the only way I can describe it is like kids on red cordial because they're just so active and so crazy in the best way and fun. And every orangutan has different personality. And, um, and yeah, they're just, they're just beautiful. But keeping in mind that they're orphans and they've lost their mums. And so, you know, I, I was joyous. I could not believe that I was there. Um, but in the corner of the playground was a little orangutan. He was bald. I now know that that happens from depression and malnutrition. When orangutans lose their mums, they, like us, um, go into deep, deep deep depression. They don't eat. When they don't eat, they get malnutrition and they don't grow hair. His name was Faisal. He looked so sad. I was told that he was a bit— they thought he was a bit simple and he didn't climb trees, and he just, he was just sitting there. So my maternal instinct just screamed out from inside me, and, um, and, um, and, you know, I just, I just felt so much for him. What I know now that I didn't know then is that Faisal, um, looking at me— orangutans have huge empathy, huge empathy and they feel our emotions. They have the same emotions as us. And so he was looking at me, obviously thinking, oh look, that poor sad woman needs some help. I'd better go and help her. So it sounds a bit, it sounds a bit corny, but you know, we walked towards each other and, and he, he came to me. He climbed up, um, up here and he put his little face up right here in front of mine and he looked into my eyes. And honestly, Natalie, I can't I can't articulate it properly, but the only way I can is to say that just lightning bolts of happiness, just jolts of sheer joy just shot through me. And I honestly, I get teary thinking about it even now. That little boy Faisal gave me back my happiness. I'm sorry, I'm going to cry. It was— I just didn't think I could feel that way again.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 12:39
Kobi, do you think that was the power of love? Would you describe it as the power of love?
Kobe Steele (Guest) · 12:44
I think it was the power of love. I think it was the power of empathy and compassion from this little, little 4-year-old orangutan. And he just— when an orangutan looks at you, in my belief, when an orangutan looks into your eyes and looks at you, of course they see you, your physical you. But I honestly believe, I mean, they're such deeply spiritual souls that I believe they look straight into your heart and they do feel your emotions. Orangutans have 97% DNA the same as us. Chimpanzees just slightly, slightly more. It's actually 97.6% that orangutans have, and I think chimpanzees are 98%. But the thing that orangutans have with us in common more than any other species is that they have 98% the same EQ or emotional quotient as human beings, which of course means they have the same emotions as us. So, you know, they feel the same sadness the same depression, the same joy, the same trauma. They have great senses of humor. So some orangutans are super outgoing and funny, and they actually laugh, and they roll around and they laugh. Some are introverted. And so I believe that Faisal could just feel my sadness and my grief, and he just wanted to come and give me a hug and help me. And oh my God, he helped me so much. It was Faisal, and then the next couple of days that I spent at the care center with a lot of other orangutans, uh, Krista being another one in particular that I'm still very close to. She was a little 3-year-old girl at the time. Honestly, they, they gave me back my purpose and they gave me back my happiness. It was the last thing I ever expected. I'd seen a grief counselor every week for a long time. I came back to Australia and I canceled my grief counseling and, and yeah, I just, I just wanted to do something to help them because they helped me so, so much. I came back here and didn't know what to do, but I researched the eco tour that I'd just done and found out who made all the money. I knew that all the work that I'd seen was from Orangutan Foundation International, which is a charity and the oldest orangutan charity in the world. And I found out that all these eco tours that were happening to Borneo at that time, um, people not making any money were the orangutans. And oh, if I, um, people were, um, just adoring these trips to visit them. But, you know, the travel agents and the airlines and the, and the eco tour guides who are wonderful people, but of course they need to job and to make a living. The boats, the, you know, anything and everything involved in the eco tours, they were all making lots of money and nothing, nothing was going towards OFI. So I decided that what I needed to do was research it all and start doing these eco tours to, to introduce other people to the joy that I had had. And so that's how I started. And started raising money for OFI. I hadn't started OFI Australia, but, um, but I was able to send money really regularly, and that gave me so much reward knowing that in some way I was able to give back. And then after I'd been doing that for 2 or 3 years, um, was lucky enough to meet Dr. Birute Galdikas. I've never met her before. I knew all about her. She is the lady that started Orangutan Foundation International, and she's the lady that I'm so lucky to work with now. Um, but I just knew of her and I knew her incredible work. Natalie, you would know a lot about her working with Jane Goodall as you did.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 16:15
They trained under the same professor, didn't they, Louis?
Kobe Steele (Guest) · 16:17
Professor Louis Leakey. Yes. So Biruté is one of the trimates. The trimates are, of course, Jane Goodall, who everybody knows from her work with chimpanzees, Dian Fossey, who worked with gorillas, and unfortunately people know Dian because of her murder, and then the movie Gorillas in the Mist. And then of course Biruté, who I work with, was the lady that was sent out to to do research with orangutans. And all these three ladies were mentored by Professor Louis Leakey, who was a really famous anthropologist in Africa. And he believed that humans and the other great apes are very closely related, as I'm sure you do and I do. And he believed that women were the best researchers because we have more patience. He didn't think men could sit there for years and years on end researching and sitting there and being part 'Of a Great Ape's Life.' And so Birute came to Borneo in the early 1970s, 1971, and she's been in the field now for over 50 years and is still in the field working with orangutans. So back to my story of how I got involved with orangutans. I met Birute, and honestly, I was like a groupie. I was so excited. And we talked, and, you know, it was so exciting. And then I didn't know her at all. She, I think, knew that I donated money, but that was about it. And she said to me, can I please take you to see a forest? Of course, I couldn't wait to go and spend the day with her. So we traveled and then we walked for about 7 kilometers or so deep, deep into what was then called the Roakuna Legacy Forest. And we sat under 1,000-year-old trees. Borneo and the rainforest in Borneo and the rainforest of Amazon are the oldest rainforests in the world. So, you know, it's an extraordinary place. And Birute explained to me that the forest that we're sitting in, Roacuna, was up for sale. The tribal elders there needed to sell, obviously, you know, to earn money, and that the palm oil plantations were desperate for the land. The tribal elders had gone to her some time before and said that they would sell it to her if she could raise the money, but it was an enormous amount of money. And she fundraised for over a year, I think, and she was 250 $250,000 short, and she had exhausted every avenue. So she said to me, I'm sure she said to everyone, I wasn't special anyway. She said to me, please, please, can you, can you help? Anything you can do to help me, Kasani, or this whole beautiful forest full of wild orangutans, it's going to be decimated and go to palm oil plantations. Of course, I couldn't wait to say yes. I had no idea what I was doing. I had no idea how I was going to help, but I said, yes, I'll go back to Australia. So, and try, I'll try. So I had no experience with charity, none, but I founded Orangutan Foundation International Australia because I wanted, you know, it to be an official thing rather than me walking around asking people for money. And I didn't know what I was doing at all, but through luck, through Kristen, I believe, my daughter holding my hand and helping me, somehow I raised the $250,000. I can tell you now that I didn't tell anyone at the time, I took out $180,000 of it in interest-free loans. And in my name and, um, promised to pay it back within 5 years. And like, I paid it back within a year, which is great. Um, but so I raised the money, and so that's how Orangutan Foundation International started. And I started my working relationship with Dr. Gurutek Alpakas.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 19:58
I think it's an absolute extraordinary story of, of transformation triggered by your profound relationship with Faisal and the others. And the lovely Kristin, she took you by your hand, I recall from a previous interview.
Kobe Steele (Guest) · 20:12
Yeah. Yes, that's right. She took me by the hand and took me out into the forest. Oh, it was so joyful. And Kristin and I are still close now. She's now, I think, about 14 years old, and she was 3 then. And, you know, every time I go to Borneo, which is very regularly, she jumps on my back. And I mean, she's about 40 kilos now, so I always come back to a chiropractor. But she jumps on my back back because she still likes to be carried out, and we go into the forest and, oh, it's, it's so much fun. She's gorgeous. She's just gorgeous. Faisal is now a great cheek patter. He is getting close to the end of his rehabilitation, but unfortunately, because he's an adult male cheek patter and he's dominant male, as, as I'm sure you know, um, once male orangutans reach a certain age and they develop their cheek pads, they have a hormonal surge. And orangutans by nature in the wild are solitary creatures. They, they're not social they're not gregarious in any way. Male orangutans in particular are completely solitary, and in the wild, the only time they really interact with other orangutans is for female companionship, shall we put it. And they, you know, they do the deed and then they move on. They certainly don't mix with other males. And so what happens when orangutan males in their kind of mid-teens, early to mid-teens, start to develop, you know, they get the little ripples and start to develop the big cheek pads, they change emotionally and they no longer want any contact with orangutans that have been their best friends and they've shared enclosures with for, oh my gosh, for all their lives. And they no longer can bear to be around another orangutan male. Unfortunately, I can still visit Faisal now, and he's huge and he's beautiful, but I can't be close to him now because he's so strong. And we've with, not with aggression, um, but with, you know, wanting to interact with me, he would rip me through the bars and probably break all my buttons because he's so very, very strong. And he, like many of the orangutans that are in the last stages of rehabilitation, are waiting for us to find safe protected forest and enough money to buy those forests so that we can release, um, which is of course the, the goal is to rehabilitate and release orangutans back into the wild.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 22:31
How long do the infants stay with the mothers typically?
Kobe Steele (Guest) · 22:35
In the wild, orangutan mother will stay like physically touching like baby on their bodies for the first 7 to 8 years of their life. They have the longest connected, you know, relationship, I mean physical connection relationship of any mammal including humans. Us humans will go back to work when your baby's 6 months or 2 years or whatever age we need to go back to work. Of course we put our babies babies into daycare or we have our mother look after them or whatever we do, orangutans don't. They stay with their infants and they teach them absolutely everything they need to know, whether it be, you know, what to be frightened of in the forest, whether it be a snake or, you know, orangutans live in the trees, they very rarely come down to the ground. So, you know, they need to learn what to be wary of in the trees. They need to know what foods to eat. They need to know how to build a nest to sleep in. In. There's so much, and it takes an orangutan mother 7 to 8 years before that child or infant is independent enough to go their own way. And then with the females, they stay, even once they're a little bit independent, they will stay with their mum for even a year or two after that. Whereas the males, the mum doing the cruel-to-be-kind thing, when they reach about 7 or 8 years old, the mother pushes them away because she needs to teach them to be solitary and and to be independent. The poor kids, you know, they cry and they scream for their mums and, you know, their mums let them follow them around for a while. But with time, you know, they go off and they do their own thing. But part of that is the problem with why, besides, you know, things we'll probably talk about, I mean, orangutans are critically endangered. They're in the red zone. They're like highly critically endangered. And of course, that is because of palm oil. But one of the things that a lot of endangered endangered animals happen is that in zoos and in different breeding programs, they can be bred back into not being endangered. That was terrible English, but you know what I mean. Because, you know, they keep having babies. But with orangutans, while a mother is breastfeeding, they will not give birth to another child. And they breastfeed up to 8 years. So on average, an orangutan mother only has a child or baby every 7 to 8 years. So they can't be bred back into non-endangerment.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 25:00
Can you tell us about how the palm oil industry is destroying the habitats and also what the audience can do to help orangutans in their habitat.
Kobe Steele (Guest) · 25:11
Hopefully most of the people that would be listening to your podcast are animal people, and so I'm hoping and praying that a majority of them know about palm oil and the palm oil problem. But palm oil is in, I'd say, 70% of every single product in our homes. In about 70% of everything we use at home and in the supermarket. Not just food products, but also in our cosmetics, in our cleaning products, in just about everything you can think of. The reason that it's palm oil that's in all these products is the cheapest, and all these big companies make the most money by using palm oil. It's got nothing to do with anything else. And you know, even though products with with palm oil will say vegan or animal friendly. All they're suggesting is that an animal isn't killed at the time that that product is made, but in actual fact it's not vegan. Anything with palm oil is not vegan because it is killing animals indirectly through deforestation for palm oil. In the last 20 years, now almost 90%, repeat, 90% of the forests in Borneo are gone, which is just a staggering amount. And, um, and the forests that are left are fragmented. In other words, you know, they're dotted all over the place. Um, so it's not just a matter now of us being able to put orangutans back into a piece of forest. That forest has to have corridors, it has to have connection, um, because even orangutan is released into a small fragmented piece of forest without the orangutans, then there isn't enough food for them. There's also the problem of releasing males, because if there's a dominant male already in that forest, we can't release another Cheetah Padder, um, because they will fight. Um, so females aren't as much a problem, um, although we still need the forest, um, to put them into. And the forest must not only, as I mentioned, have enough food for the wild orangutans and their offspring, but also, um, enough food, forest seasonal fruits, uh, for the orangutans we're releasing and their offspring to come. Because, you know, perfect world, they'll have babies very, very soon, uh, and most most of them do when they get back, when they get back into the wild. So yeah, it's a long-term thing. But so palm oil is the reason for this horrendous deforestation. Not only that, it's not only for orangutans, the deforestation through palm oil and illegal logging is bad. It's horrendous for us too, because as everyone would know from, from that big Glasgow summit a while back, deforestation is the major contributor to climate change. So I mean, we're all suffering too, and it's animals all over the world Look at all of the wildfires that we're having here in Australia. And again, in Borneo, I mean, the forests are like tinderboxes. And so every year when they slash and burn for palm oil plantations, the forests go up in smoke because they're just— there's, you know, because of the climate change, there's so little rain now. The other thing, back to orangutans, I mean, with the climate change, what's happening is orangutans orangutans are amazing creatures. They have a mental map, and they have over the history of the time, orangutans have a mental map of where all the seasonal wild fruits in the forest are. So they know where to go. I mean, you know, Tanjung Puting National Park, if I use that as an example, is where the largest population of orangutans left in the world are. It's almost a third the size of Germany. It is huge. But the orangutan orangutans in the national park have a mental map of where in that huge area to go, at what month, at what week the trees are going to fruit. And, you know, they're all vying for the same food. So we as a foundation have feeding stations for supplemental food. But with climate change, and because the, the weather has changed, the fruits, um, the fruit isn't, isn't, um, coming at the same time and in the same places. And so an orangutan goes expecting that this is the week that that tree is going to fruit because it has for centuries. There's no food there. And so orangutans are also starving to death because of climate change, because of the wildfires, because of palm oil.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 29:32
As you, as you pointed out, orangutans are in the highest level of risk possible, the highest ranking. So what can we do? Is there one thing that consumers can do to help protect orangutans? And I know that palm oil isn't easy to recognize.
Kobe Steele (Guest) · 29:48
Yeah, well, the answer is absolutely everybody. Everybody can do something. And please, anyone listening, don't think, I'm only one person, I can't do anything. Um, please, you can. The power of one is real. And, um, whether it's something small or whether it's something big, anything you do can make a difference to animals in our world. And for orangutans, it's please say no No to palm oil. I know, as Nat said, it's very, very difficult because unfortunately all these companies that are using palm oil to hide and mask the palm oil use, um, because palm oil is a bad word, use different names. So in Europe and now in Asia, there is mandatory labeling where they have to say the word palm oil if it is in the ingredients list. But unfortunately, in Australia, in America, and other parts of the world, there's no such thing yet as mandatory palm oil labeling, which means if we look at food products for a start, if you turn over and read an ingredients list, uh, the two main ingredients that will be on the ingredients list that you will see when it's palm oil is vegetable oil or vegetable fat. That is 98% of the time palm oil. And as I said, the only reason they do it is to mask it. If the oil being used is if it's, let's say, I'm just making this up, but if it's canola oil or sunflower oil or peanut or coconut or olive or any of the many, many other oils there are, they state it on the ingredients list because they're proud that they're not using palm oil. And they're also, you know, making less profit and trying to make a difference in this world. Palm oil is fantastic for most of these companies to use because one, it's the cheapest, they make the most profit, but also it's this miracle thing. It makes ice cream creamier. It makes, you know, biscuits crunchier. It makes crisps crispier. It, in makeup and skincare, it helps to soak into your skin better. If it's a cleaning product, they use sodium laurel sulfate, is probably the most popular of the names. It's what makes everything bubble. So if you think our hand wash, our detergents, laundry and dishwashing, everything that bubbles, oils, that's palm oil. And they can use other things, yes, but don't make as much profit. Um, other thing, you know, so vegetable oil and vegetable fat are the two main things in foods. But if you're looking at things like skincare, along with sodium lauryl sulfate, stearate, glycerin, there's many, many, many names. And if you would like to, you can go on to our website, Aranacan Foundation International Australia. Please put the Australia in so that you get the pertinent information. And you'll see that we have a palm oil section, and you can click on there and you can go down, and we have like a little card that tells you all the popular names for palm oil. It's something that you can keep in your wallet, um, or, you know, take a photograph and have on your phone. So it sounds like a difficult thing that every time you go into a supermarket, either you are turning over whatever it is— let's use a jar of peanut butter as example, you're turning over the jar and you're reading the ingredients. But keep in mind that once you've done that a couple of times and you've read, oh, that one, um, just says peanuts and salt, it doesn't say vegetable oil, then you know that that's the peanut butter you need to buy. Um, the same with many, many different things. So even though it's a bit of a hassle at the beginning and you might spend 20 minutes or half an hour longer, think of the difference you're making to the animals in this world. And also, I mean, I don't, I don't read ingredients just now because I know what I can buy and what I can't. And you know what, I don't miss out on anything. And I, um, you know, I, I buy everything that everyone else buys, but I, I would like to think that I'm 99% palm oil free in my life. Some things you can't avoid, but especially, you know, eating out and whatever. But so yes, my answer to that— that was a long answer— my short answer is say no to palm oil, um, please, please.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 33:56
And go through a process of self-education by the sound of it, so shopping becomes easier with time once you, once self-educated.
Kobe Steele (Guest) · 34:03
Yeah, it's really inconvenient, but after a while it just is second nature.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 34:07
Thank you, Koby. Um, getting back to the, the effect and the transformation that animals have on people, you, you take people on tours to Borneo and you've had a major transformation yourself. Can you describe any other examples of profound influence that orangutans have had on your—
Kobe Steele (Guest) · 34:26
I, um, I just do 2 eco tours a year to Borneo Um, I work full-time as well, so I can't do more than that. Um, but it's a way that I fundraise, and I only take very small groups of people, and they are privileged enough and lucky enough, and I'm lucky enough to be able to take them in to the Rangitan Foundation International Care Center. And it is an extraordinary privilege because no one gets to do it. It's closed to the general public, and I do do it to raise money. So these beautiful people come along with me, and you know, they're are here for all different reasons. There are people that are just ticking off their bucket list. They want to see gorillas, they want to see the Antarctic, they want to go to Galápagos, they want to see chimpanzees, they want to see orangutans. Tick, tick, tick. But more often I find that people that come are people that really do care. Most of them have had a fascination for orangutans or for wildlife. I think they want to have the experience of being in the jungle, but all of them are out of their comfort zone when they go, and none of them know what they're going to experience. They have no how incredibly great it's going to be. So one of the great joys that I get to have is that because I have been so many times, and believe me, I never get complacent, but it's also the same for the people that come for me. And so I sit back, and of course I love to see the orangutans, but one of my greatest joys is to sit back and watch them. I take them into the jungles and we go to, uh, feeding stations, and it is wild orangutans that they're seeing. And Oekai once a day bring out supplemental food food for orangutans that haven't been able to find it on their own. And so all of a sudden, the rangers start calling, and orangutans— like, they're so quiet, so you've just got to be looking— orangutans start coming through the trees and coming, coming down. And it is an oh my God moment for me every time. But for the people that I'm taking, to sit there and watch the joy in their faces— they're just gobsmacked, and they can't believe what they're seeing, and they've got to keep remembering that it's wild free orangutans. We're not in a sanctuary or a zoo. And just to see their faces, and then we stay there for hours sometimes, you know. And yeah, many, many, many, many people cry. It's very, very emotional. And, you know, I've taken— oh gosh, I can, I can give you some examples. There was a beautiful girl, Nepal, who came with me some years ago who had brain cancer. Um, her dying wish was to see orangutans. Orangutans in the wild. She didn't think she had long to go. And, um, yeah, we went again. It was, it was in the forest, and, you know, we're walking through the forest to go to the feeding stations, you know, on the trails. And, um, all of a sudden, out of nowhere, um, right in front of us was a big, big cheek-padded dominant male orangutan just standing in the path. And, um, honestly, it was amazing to watch. This was her joy, and, um, this was her wish. To see an orangutan in the wild before she passed. And this orangutan was probably 2 meters, 3 meters from her, just standing there, completely non-aggressive, completely relaxed. She, she cried and she cried and she cried and she cried. Of course we all did. The joy was palpable. She got her wish. And of course we spent a week with orangutans after that, and she had an extraordinary week. But And then even better is after having that experience, it changed her so profoundly that she was brave enough to have the brain surgery. She actually had it with Dr. Charlie Teo, and he saved her life. That's probably now, I'm guessing, 7, 8 years ago, and she's still with us, and I'm in touch with her. And it was that experience with experiencing reintegrations in the wild that gave her the courage. To fight and to keep going. Another lady I took, her husband had died, and again, she, like me, had been in deep, deep grief. Her experience changed her life. But just, I mean, even without having deep loss or deep grief in your life, you know, I take people, and they're lovely when I take them, of course. And, you know, I'm talking to them, I meet them in Jakarta, and they're lovely, lovely people. People that, you know, when they've spent a week in the wild, they just— they just are different. And I can't explain it, but I think— and they will say they have more compassion, they have more empathy, they have more connection to nature, and they realize how healing nature is. And it's just a profound, profound experience.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 38:59
Said then is consistent with what research is showing too. There are major benefits of wildlife encounters matters. And Kobi, obviously you've had a very profound, life-changing time with orangutans, but I believe you have another very special animal in your life. And in fact, I think he just walked past in the background before.
Kobe Steele (Guest) · 39:18
Yes, I have the most beautiful dog in the world, like we all do. Here he comes. Cook just turned 4, 2 days ago. Um, I've had him now for 2 years, and Cook is a rehomed guide dog. I've always had Labradors. I just adore Labradors are just my thing. And I had two labs until two and a bit years ago, and both of them passed elderly, um, within a few months of each other. And like when I lost Bristol, I was just absolutely devastated. And, um, they were my kids since I lost Bristol. They, you know, poor, poor dogs, so much pressure to be my children. But, um, but yeah, Balloon and Chaos passed, and I am so lucky that, um, one of the board members of my foundation. Sarah works for Guide Dogs in Sydney, and through a set of circumstances, she was able to put me in touch with the people in Queensland that have guide dogs that need rehoming. When my other two dogs passed, I didn't know when was the right time to get another dog. I didn't wanna replace them. I didn't want to, you know, disrespect their memory by getting a dog too soon. But, you know, I just need to, I mean, I just have so much love to give and, you know, I live on my own. So, you know, also, you know, I just, um, it was just so quiet and lonely. And so, so I kept saying to Kristen, my daughter, I talked to her all the time, I don't know when the right time is going to be, um, but when it's the right time to get a new dog, please send me the right dog. Just send me the right dog, the dog for me. When I went to pick Cook up from Queensland Guide Dogs, the lady that gave him to me, his name was Kristen. So, so that was my message from above, or from beyond, but, um, but Kristin, um, found me the right dog. And, um, and so I've had Cook now for 2 years. Um, just after, just after I, um, I got Cook, a matter of weeks after I got Cook, unfortunately I was diagnosed with cancer. And so I went through a year of chemo and radiation and, um, and it was a tough time as it is for everybody. And, you know, this beautiful, beautiful boy, um, you know, sat by my side through the whole thing. You know, 6 months of what's not nice. And, and, you know, he was so patient with me. And yeah, so again, he, he, I believe he helped to heal me, Kristen, my daughter, and, and Cook, and my love for orangutans. You know, I think for the first 6 months when I had cancer, I cried and cried and cried because I thought I was never going to— I sound like I cry a lot. I thought I was never going to get to go to Borneo again or see orangutans again because it was, you know, a long time that I couldn't go. And but then, you know what, I had Cook by my side. And so I still had the most beautiful, beautiful animal helping me to heal. And you know, I am glad to say that I'm now cancer-free. And I've been going back to the Remittance now for a year. I've been 4 times in the last year. And so, so yes, everything's back to normal. But yeah, Cook is my Australian wonder dog. He's an angel. He's the best behaved dog in the universe. And it has nothing to do with me. It's because he's beautifully trained by the guide dog people. Unfortunately, when he was 18 months, he got severe arthritis, which is That's why he was rehomed, um, because he couldn't do all the walking that would be needed to be a guard dog. But oh my gosh, you know, it was my absolute— my gift in life to, to get him, and he's my very best friend.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 42:35
Koby, what would be your main message that you would like the audience to take away from this podcast?
Kobe Steele (Guest) · 42:42
Apart from save orangutans, please, with what you do. I mean, just to save orangutans, we have to save their habitat. To save orangutans, we have to save the rainforest. Forests. So, um, of course that is saying no to palm oil. But on top of that, apart from that, I think that people need to, to find some purpose in their lives. It doesn't all have to be big and raising money for animals and charity because that's a bit overwhelming on a day-to-day basis. But I do believe that you need to, to listen to your heart and find your happy place. And for me, and for a lot of people, I believe that's nature. And so, you know, if times are tough, I mean, this world is so hard now and so many people suffer from anxiety and from mental health issues and just from being overwhelmed with life in general. My suggestion would be to just going to your own park. It can be just driving up the road or into the country, but to find some healing and quiet time in nature. I think the Japanese have something called forest bathing. That's what they call it. They've got a word for it. I can't tell you what it is, but you know, they believe in the healing of nature, and I totally do. So my advice to people would be to ask yourself deeply when you feel happy and to make time to do it.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 44:02
Find your passion, which you obviously have, passion and purpose.
Kobe Steele (Guest) · 44:06
And give yourself a chance to just have some moments of happiness. Don't just be caught up in the crazy world we live in.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 44:12
And Kobi, just before we finish, if people would like to come on one of your eco tours to Borneo to support the orangutans or support support OFI Australia in other ways? How can they find more information?
Kobe Steele (Guest) · 44:27
For just in general, if you go onto our website, Orangutan Foundation International Australia, if you have a look, of course there's a donate button. So the obvious thing is to say, please make a donation. We can't do any of the work we do without support. And unfortunately, a lot of that support has to be financial because it costs a lot of money. In our care centre right now, we have over 300 orangutans. That costs couple of million dollars a year just for that without buying forests, without anything else. So that's one thing you can do. Of course, another lovely thing you can do is to foster an orphan orangutan. So again, on our website, you'll see a little tab that says foster. Just click on it and then you go on and you look at all our little orphan orangutans, or little and big, and they're all gorgeous. You click on their photo and it'll give you their story. It costs $100 a year. It's totally 100% tax deductible and it's in the financial year. So, um, So if you want to get a little bit more money on your tax, you can do it. So fostering a rangtan is lovely because then every 6 months, once you get their initial story and their certificate, every 6 months you get new photos and you get their progress reports. So that's a lovely way to stay connected, especially for your children and your grandchildren to get them involved in nature and animals and having a connection. Of course, we've talked about saying no to palm oil. Again, any fundraising you can do to help us, whether it's, you know, putting on a little dinner, you can always call me. My phone number's on the website and we can talk in more depth. If you'd like to come on an eco tour, you'll see there's a section that says Get Involved. If you tap on that, you'll see Join an Eco Tour. I have a waiting list, which is a very grand name for email notifications when I announce tours and bookings. I only do a couple a year, and it really is first in, first served. I don't advertise the tours because they sell out in a matter of a day. Anyway. And so if I advertise them, you know, it would be crazy. You ring me or you email me, all the information is there, um, and just ask me to put you on the waiting list. You give me your email address and your phone number, and then when, um, when I announce tours— and I'm actually announcing one first week in July for next year, um, I'll do two next year, one in April, one in October, um, but it is first in, first served. So you pay $1,000 deposit, you fill out your booking form, and Yeah, and it really is amazing thing to do. Amazing.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 46:50
Hey Kirby, you have some merchandise also on your website to sell, which might be a nice gift idea.
Kobe Steele (Guest) · 46:58
If you love aromatans like I do, we have a whole range of merchandise, whether it be t-shirts, lots of soft toys, lots of gorgeous little fluffy aromatans to buy for children or for yourself, you know, drink bottles and cups. On shopping bags and tote bags. And oh my gosh, there's tons and tons of stuff there— little baby onesies, kids' t-shirts, caps, bucket hats. I sound like an advertisement, but yes, please, there's a merchandise tab. So just go on, um, go to merchandise, and, um, it's all really good quality, lovely stuff. Big picture, wearing the pants on t-shirts.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 47:31
Great. Kobi, it's been such a pleasure listening to your story.
Kobe Steele (Guest) · 47:35
Thank you for letting me share it, and thank you anyone that's listening.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 47:39
My pleasure. Thank you.
Kobe Steele (Guest) · 47:42
Follow Animals and Us is a production of Kintsugi Heroes. Thank you to Xavier Rudd for his permission to use Follow the Sun as our theme music for this series. If you enjoyed this conversation, share the podcast with a friend and let us know by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to support Kintsugi Heroes and the stories we share, head to Kintsugiheroes.com.au and follow the instructions to make a tax-deductible donation. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 48:22
A brand new moon, brand new sun.
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