Mahshid Babzartabi · 37 min
At 52, Mahshid Babzartabi left behind a career, a home, and a country to risk her life on an overcrowded boat, and arrived in Australia to build a community of thousands from almost nothing.
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At 52, Mahshid Babzartabi left behind a career, a home, and a country to risk her life on an overcrowded boat. She had spent decades in Tehran as a translator, but censorship of her work and the closing of doors for women meant there was no space left for her to exist as herself. In less than a week, she arranged passage on a boat with 81 other people and set out across the ocean with a third of a glass of water per day. Eleven days later, the Australian Navy found them. Everyone survived.
Instead of retreating into the safety of isolation, Mahshid spent her 45 days in immigration detention translating for other detainees, working through the nights so others could sleep. That act of showing up led to everything that followed. A chance meeting with a pastor, a church hall, and a Facebook page with 15 people became a community of 2,200 asylum seekers gathering for food and connection. She started cooking classes to teach her culture and advocate for people still caught in limbo. She became Auntie to hundreds of people she had never met before.
Ten years later, Mahshid has permanent residency but still does not feel Australian. She has no biological family left in her life, yet she built a family of choice through work that mattered. She has just finished her book, Spot: Next Chapter, which covers the period from her decision to leave Iran through to landing in Darwin. She learned that fear is useless, that getting involved in community kills despair, and that the place between homes can become a home if you fill it with people you help. She chose freedom over security, and she would not change it.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses grief & loss, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au • GriefLine: 1300 845 745 · griefline.org.au
“It's like you have been jailed then you have free and then you come back to the jail again.”
“They were angels to us. Angels. They broke the b and we were all with jaws dropped and like some angel from the sky came and helped us make us sure that we are not going to die in the ocean.”
“I think the resilient comes from not having any other choice. For me, there was no other choice.”
The hero, today
Mahshid left Iran at 52 because censorship of her translation work meant there was no space for her to exist as herself, and she chose freedom over the security of home. The connections she made in detention became the foundation for years of advocacy work, turning a moment of isolation into a way to help others in her community. Getting involved in the community and taking action, even imperfectly, is what kills the fear that comes with arriving alone in a new country. Mahshid's sense of home is no longer tied to a place but to the people she helps, because work that matters gave her life meaning when she had no family and no one else to rely on. Ten years after arriving, Mahshid still does not feel Australian, and inclusion that comes too late cannot undo the grief of missing the chance to bring her son to live with her.
Yes. Mahshid Babzartabi is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Mahshid left Iran at 52 because censorship of her translation work meant there was no space for her to exist as herself, and she chose freedom over the security of home.
The connections she made in detention became the foundation for years of advocacy work, turning a moment of isolation into a way to help others in her community.
Getting involved in the community and taking action, even imperfectly, is what kills the fear that comes with arriving alone in a new country.
Mahshid's sense of home is no longer tied to a place but to the people she helps, because work that matters gave her life meaning when she had no family and no one else to rely on.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 00:14
Hello and welcome to the podcast From There to Here, a podcast I've created in collaboration with Kintsugi Heroes. I'm your host, Emma Bilami, and each week we will dive into conversations with people who've had the courage to rebuild a home away from home. Today, my guest is Masheed Barzartabi. Masheed left everything behind in the pursuit of freedom. She fled Iran when she was 52 because she simply could not endure being trapped in a society that silenced her voice and her work. In this episode, Masheed shares her escape on an overcrowded boat with 81 other asylum seekers. She opens up about the risks she took to survive and the hardships she faced upon arriving in Australia. She recounts how she turned her struggles into purpose and resilience. If you want to be inspired by someone who's had an incredible journey of survival, courage, and rediscovered freedom, this episode is for you. Mashin, I'm so pleased to have you on the podcast today. I know that your journey as a refugee in this country has been far from easy, and I'm truly honored that you trusted me to share your story in this podcast today.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 01:45
Well, thank you so much for inviting me. Thank you so much for giving a chance to me to talk about my journey and asylum seekers and refugees. It might be inspiration for some other people.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 01:55
I know that you are originally from Iran. Can you share a bit more about what your life was like over there just before you had to leave?
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 02:04
I was born in Iran, Tehran capital city, and I lived about 52 years over there. Some, some years should be skipped because for a period of time I was living in United States with my family, and after the revolution My family decided to come back to Iran when everybody else decided to leave Iran. We came back to Iran from United States. So I finished my high school in the United States and first year of college, and then my father said, "No, the revolution happened. Iran is going to be heaven. We come back to Iran." When I came back to Iran, everything was upside down. The university was closed. There was not much job available. So the only thing I could do was, as our culture and tradition forces us, was getting married. I was married in Iran and my marriage was an arranged marriage. I didn't have anything to do with it. And then I had 2 kids and finally I said, well, I have to do something. I started doing translation, translating books and articles and working as a business interpreter. I learned all this by experience I never done on an academic level, and that brought me some of problem when I came to Australia because although I have done translation all my life and this was one of my passion and I was very good at it, translating lots of books, lots of articles, but when I came to Australia, I could not follow it as a paid job. So I had to do some other things as a paid job.
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This conversation includes 52 years in tehran, the book that crossed a line, alone on a boat with 81 people, eleven days without enough water, the navy arrives and 45 days translating in detention.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 03:39
Can you explain to us why you had to leave Iran? I know that it was linked to some of the books you've translated.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 03:47
It was not a decision that I made one night. It was always in my mind since I came back after revolution to Iran. I was always comparing the freedom I had as a woman when I was in United States, even though I was a teenager. And when I came back in Iran, it was like all the doors was closed. It's like you have been jailed, then you have free, and then you come back to the jail again. The first book that I translated, it end up by a person who was related to the government authorities of Sondheim, and he published it under his own name and I couldn't do anything about it. And then the second book confronted with lots of censorship and I didn't accept that. That's why I said, well, there is no way for me to grow here, even though I might consider as my culture, 52 years old is an old woman. I decided to leave this country. At the age of 52, it's so hard to be accepted as a migrant in many countries, and I was so, so eager for it. I wanted to leave as soon as possible. So I said, well, I cannot do anything yet because there are lots of social and moral and ethical and cultural bans for women. Some jobs you are able to do it. But even in this job, I was banned from being myself. That's why I decided to leave the country. And the only way left for me was living, as they say, illegal, by boat. It was recommended by some of my friends, and I accepted it, and I went through the journey.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 05:24
Wow. And so you went there on your own? You didn't—
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 05:27
Yes, I came here on my own. As I said, I had 2 kids. One of them died at the age of 11. And the other one left country years before I came to Australia. He went to Netherlands. My son, after being 10 or 15 years in Netherlands, he still didn't have his permanent residency. So it wouldn't work for me either. And because I was a business interpreter, I had lots of traveling overseas. It was easy for me to receive the visa from European countries. I had some cousins over there, but they told me if they send me the letter of invitation and I would go and stay there, that would cause them problems, which I didn't want a problem for anyone else. And then somebody told me they know a friend, they have been gone through this journey. I called them and in Iran, the phones are spied, so you cannot talk on the phone that much. So in less than a week, everything was done and then I hit the journey. It was a long journey. I came to Indonesia, from Indonesia, And other things happened. And then I got in the boat with 80 other people. And then exactly at July 7th, 2013, our boat was landed in Darwin. Wow.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 06:41
And I know you stayed 11 days adrift on the ocean.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 06:45
Yes, 11 days.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 06:47
You went without food and water for 11 days?
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 06:50
We had a little bit of food when we started the journey, but the smugglers told us not to take a big bag with us. He said he will provide us enough food, which was not enough. And 81 people in a small boat, so you can imagine the food would not be enough. We had the ratio of having 1/3 glass of water every day, and very, very, in the very last days, almost nothing because we had kids with us too. So we preferred the kids to be fed and some sick people with us, we had preferred to them. In the last days, almost nothing for to eat, so. I used to be in very good shape back then.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 07:29
I can only imagine what it must have been like. And do you remember how you felt when the Navy found the boat?
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 07:37
Oh yes. I remember it was in the morning time. The soldiers of the Navy, they broke the body of the boat and they jumped in. They were angels to us. Angels. They broke the boat and then we were all with jaws dropped. And like some angel from the sky came and helped us, make us sure that we are not going to die in the ocean. Wow.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 08:03
And everyone from the boat survived?
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 08:06
Oh yes, everybody survived. There was only one guy, he was seasick all these 11 days. Absolutely couldn't eat or drink anything. We hardly could make him to drink a little bit of water or small pieces of candy that I gave him. He was not in a good health condition, but he survived too. Wow.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 08:23
My gosh. It's incredible that he survived without any hydration.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 08:27
In the very last days, he was throwing up blood. So he, if the Navy would not find us a few days later, I don't think he would be able to survive. All of us, we were not in a good condition, but he was the worst.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 08:43
And so after that, you spent 45 days in an immigration detention center?
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 08:49
Yes, I did. I was actually one of the lucky ones because I only spent 45 days in detention center. From the very moment that I arrived until the very moment I left, I was helping others because I was among the very rare people who could speak English back then. So I don't even remember how those 45 days, I hardly had enough time to sleep because in nighttime they usually, they didn't have interpreter and they used to knock on my door many, many times in midnight. So in order to get just a little bit of sleep, I had to go to someone else's room and I used to, "Don't tell them I'm here. I want to sleep 2 hours." Wow. Yes, but even though when I arrived I was really weak, but those 45 days led me to some other journey that I never expect, helping others and asylum seekers. I learned a lot from that experience.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 09:43
Because you started actually to help others with your translation skills in the detention center, and it's been kind of like the golden thread of your journey because you've continued to do that, but through different ways. You've done it as well with your cooking skills, with your advocacy work as well now. So it's something that matters to you. It's important for you to help them.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 10:04
Well, actually, they said you never meet people without any reason. Those 45 days led me to another journey in my life that I never expected. And I just told you I couldn't do the interpretation and translation as a paid job because I learned it through experience. I never done it academically. So when I came here, for 3 years we were not allowed to work. We didn't have working rights, and you used to rely on a little bit of money that Centrelink used to give us. It was about $1,000 something, nothing more. Used to have to pay rent, we used to have to pay bills, we used to food, clothing, everything. And I remember one day, I used to do the volunteer job in Dorabean Intercultural Center in the reception. And one day a guy came to reception and he said, "I'm a pastor. I know Muslim seekers come here a lot. I'm eager to help them." I asked the guy, "How are you going to help them?" He said, "Well, in any way possible. I am a pastor of a church. I like to help them." And he gave me his card. I put his card in my bag and I lost the card. After 2 months, I was searching my bag, still was helping asylum seekers with translation and everything. I saw the card and, oh, who is this guy? And I called him, we met together, and I went to the church he had. The back hall was so big. He said, this back hall is always empty. And I told him, well, do you like to do something good for us? Because we, We have a little bit of money and we are not allowed to work. We have less entertainment. Can you give us the hall once in a month so we have a gathering? And he said yes. And then starting from that day, once in a month, we used to have a gathering and party for asylum seekers because they didn't have enough money to go out. They couldn't go to parties. They couldn't go anywhere to have some entertainment. They need entertainment too. And everybody used to bring their food. And it started with a page in Facebook with 15 people. We were 15, and now it's 2,200. And then we started organizing courses for them. Different people from different organization came to me. They said, "We want to arrange a course for asylum seekers." Oh, we do, welcome. Some people came to me, said, "We have extra furniture in the house. We want to give it to asylum seekers." And between 2014 until 2018, we gave furniture for 200 families, more than 200 families. The pages are still active and we are still doing it in a different way. There's no more party. There's no more party. It's more advocacy for asylum seekers and refugees in a different way. Now after 11 or 12 years, they mostly are settled. They hardly need translation. What I started this way is going to another way. And because I couldn't do translation interpreting as a paid job, I needed a job when I got the working right. I said, "What can I do in my life? Oh, all my life I've been cooking. I can teach cooking." Then I started working as a cooking instructor. I have cooking classes teaching my culture and tradition and my food. And every class I use the opportunity to bring the subject to asylum seekers because there's still 12,000 of these asylum seekers in limbo, an unclear situation. So this is the Other way that we start helping asylum seekers and refugees, fighting for them to be able to get their hands to the rights and permanent residency after 12 years.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 13:33
It's incredible all of the things that you've done in this community. I think it's a way you found meaning, right?
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 13:40
Actually, yes. It was not that I did not help in my country. I used to help in my country too, in other way, because the conception was completely different. When I was in the boat, A lot of people, all of them were much younger than me. And in our culture and tradition, a woman after 40 considered to be old. Many of them ask me, why are you going? Why are you going? What's your intention to go? It's not age for you to go. I was tired of everybody pointing my age. And now I see after 10 years, the journey I have passed, I've worked a lot more than those young people. Even I believe it's too late for me to start. But it was not.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 14:19
Yeah, no, it's definitely not. You can still achieve so many things and you don't have the same perspective as well.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 14:25
The perspective is changed, but if I would not come to Australia and follow this direction that life has planned for me, I might have the same perspective people had about the age when I was in Iran. Well, I used to not to wear some colors. No, it's not good for me anymore. But my perspective and my activity in life is completely changed now.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 14:46
Mm.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 14:47
And this was what happened for me after I started being a solipsic.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 14:52
Mm. Yeah, and it's one of the way as well we get to change by relocating to another country. And it's actually something that I find particularly interesting is how our identity is influenced when we relocate somewhere else, when we build another life in another country. And I wonder in your case if you felt like some aspects of your identity that are linked to your Iranian culture had to be left behind or minimized in order to integrate in Australia.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 15:26
Yes. When you migrate to another country, tradition actually is not as meaningful and as useful as the culture, and a lot of them gives a big bans to women. So when you come here, you see everything change. You get involved in the society because you have to be productive when you come to another country, especially me, because I didn't have anyone with me and I was the only one who support me. So the meaning has changed, especially regarding the tradition that gives bans to women. It's totally meaningless to me now. But the culture is actually come something that I use in my classes. I use in my classes to inform the people about the culture, especially to bring awareness to the people, the bad image they have about our people. Since the revolution happened, then the government in the position have done a lot of things that all the people in the world may think that this is equal to Iranian. It is not. Iranian people are completely different from the government ruling them. So I am in the middle of somewhere in my culture that I don't know where I am, but I start try to transit it to the other people.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 16:35
Yeah, that's interesting as well because you've been able to really maintain your culture and spread it and educate other people on your culture while also adapting to another. But do you feel that sometimes the two things clash with one another?
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 16:51
Of course they do. Of course they do. You know, you have a different lifestyle here and you had a different culture and tradition and part of it is missing here. It takes a bit of time to adapt it. For me, it was not that hard because as I said, I was grow up in United States. In a very young age, it was not that hard. I knew the difference and it was easier than compared to the others, but I still used it. Even the change that happened to me, I still used it as a tool to bring awareness about asylum seekers and refugees and Iranian and everything related to my community.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 17:29
And there is another thing that I thought was really interesting is when we first met, you shared with me that there is no place that truly feels like home to you. Your homeland is not your home anymore, and Australia hasn't really given you the solid sense of belonging you probably wanted. So I wonder how it feels like for you to have no place you can really call home.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 17:54
In some aspect here, I cannot have the completely this feeling that I am Australian right now, even though I got my permanent residency after 10 years with very hard process. But I still don't have that feeling that this is my home. And I lost the home that I had. And I don't know where is my home right now. I am in between. None of them is exactly my home. And I need a home. Well, maybe I could make myself more free by thinking that the heart of the people is my home right now. The people that I help, maybe their heart might be my home right now.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 18:35
It's a beautiful way to think about it, I think, because your home is not connecting to a geographical place. It's connected to humans, to people you connect with.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 18:47
Especially because I didn't have any family members, so I think helping others and working for others gave me a meaning, the meaning to my life. Otherwise, in past 10 years, it would be very, very hard to live all alone by yourself in another country you didn't have any idea about.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 19:06
It must be really hard to not have any family members with you. Is it something that you think about and you are struggling with sometimes?
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 19:15
Well, uh, I think about it actually, especially because I lost my other son recently. It's not even one year that Everybody likes to have a family. I only had 2 sons, one of them passed 20 years ago and the other one passed about 8 months ago. So it's clear that I think about it. But every time I feel down about it and I feel desperate about it, I say, well, this is the journey that life planned for me and my life should be led in different way compared to the others. I mean, many people in my age, they have their grandchildren, they gather together, they enjoy their family, especially in days like Christmas or our New Year or Mother's Day, it really hits me. But then I try to give a bit of comfort to myself. My journey of life was different, so I should be continuing in a different way. Not every life is same as others.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 20:15
And I know that you are a bit considered like a, a mom to many other people in your community. So I guess that Even if you are not a mom to your kids anymore, you can have this mother energy and this mother caregiving to many of the people around you. Yeah.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 20:32
When I was in a boat, the younger people used to call me Auntie. And still, still many of them, they passed the meaning of Auntie to me. Everybody is calling me Auntie. So I'm Auntie to many, many people that I never met and never knew before.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 20:47
Yeah, that is actually quite beautiful that people chose you to call you this way.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 20:51
Well, that's a good feeling.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 20:52
Is there an advice you wish someone had given you when you struggled in your darkest time in Australia and that you perhaps didn't have and you'd like to inspire other people with?
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 21:06
The first days when I came here, I mean, after detention center, when I released to the community, although I could speak English and I could communicate verbally, I was so scared. I was so scared of not having anyone. I didn't know anyone, and I even didn't know how to catch a bus because catching a bus in our country was a different process. Every new thing was very scary to me. I think, uh, is anyone migrating, the first thing to assure themselves, the fear is useless. Do not be afraid. Do not be afraid. Although you might know no one, or might be very lonely. If you put the fear outside, you can think much better and then prioritize everything you need to do.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 21:57
What is your tip to try to minimize the fear as much as possible?
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 22:02
Get involved. Get involved in the community. Do not be scared. Since the day I started the group, I have gave speech to many, many people, thousands of speech. I don't even practice anymore. I'll just go up there and start talking. I remember the first speech I had to do, it was in a church. And even though I was practiced for it, when I went there and I looked at the people, blank, nothing. I couldn't remember anything. I looked at them and what I could say, oh, I'm very happy to see you today. I hope you're happy with me too. I just talked nonsense. But that was the starting point for me. To kill the fear inside me.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 22:41
And by doing it, you think, well, even if you embarrass yourself, it's not that bad. You know, even if you say something wrong or you say something that wasn't quite as deep as you intended, it's not as bad as you think.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 22:55
There is not even one speech when I finish and after that I say, oh, I shouldn't say that. I shouldn't say this. I shouldn't do this. I should say that. There is not even one speech. Well, I used to blame myself to be perfectionist, that I have to do it perfect. No, it's okay if you are not perfect. I remember a long time ago I read somewhere, you don't have to be perfect when you're good. Because our society used to inject in our mind, every woman has to be perfect. Every woman has to do everything perfect. No, no, you are allowed to not to be perfect.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 23:30
And it's actually a thought that prevents you from doing so many things as well in your life, because if you think already of being perfect, you never start anything. One of the other things that I think has been, um, present throughout your journey is your resilience. You know, you faced a lot of adversity. Your circumstances upon your release into the community were quite difficult because you couldn't work, your credentials were not recognized. There were a lot of challenges. You didn't have any family. And so is there something you could say perhaps to our audience about how to be resilient?
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 24:11
I think the resilience comes from not having any other choice. For me, there was no other choice. As I said, when I was alone by myself and I didn't have anyone else, there was no help and it was useless for me to wait for someone to help me. I was the only one who was here and able to support myself. So maybe at the beginning I didn't think about it as a resilience. I thought about it as a matter of being have to. I still have a lot of challenges in my life after 10 years living here by myself, but the matter of being have to might not be pleasant at the beginning, But when you continue on that, the resilience comes after that. And then after a while, as I said, you put the fear down, then you keep going.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 24:59
Yeah, you're right. The resilience is not really a choice. Yeah, it's probably something you can see once you're not in this space anymore. You know, you can reflect on the resilience, but in it, it doesn't feel like resilience.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 25:15
No, it doesn't feel like it.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 25:16
It feels like a struggle and you fight.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 25:19
Yeah.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 25:20
I wonder if there is a book or a movie that you could perhaps recommend to our audience, something that inspired you and you think would be good to share.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 25:30
I tell you what's the book, but the book is not published yet. It finished today. I wrote a book named Spot Next Chapter. When we wanted to get in the boat, there was a place All of us called it the spot, and we had to get to that spot to get to the boat. And it is about the journey and what happens. It's actually about all the asylum seekers, what happens that makes them trigger to seeking asylum all over the world. And it's called Spot: Next Chapter. And next chapter of my life has a start here. So it's finished today, has to be edited and published, and then this could be the book.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 26:09
Oh my gosh, it's amazing that you finished it today.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 26:12
Yeah, exactly today, very early morning I woke up because I knew I have an interview today and I was finished today. Wow.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 26:20
Tell us about the process of writing a book about your life.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 26:25
It's not exactly my life. It's from the moment I decided to come to this journey until I landed my foot on Darwin. It's only about this period of time and a lot of points that bring the trigger for me to seek asylum, to leave my home. I had a good job, very good paid job. So I had car, I had house, I had respect. I left them all behind and decided to choose this one. And I know this worth it right now because the freedom that I have, I don't change it with anything else in my life. So it's not about autobiography. It could be every asylum seeker biography, but through the journey we made through the ocean. So why someone decides to— because your house is your mansion, is your palace. Even if somebody's house is much prettier, much bigger, better furniture, you prefer to sit on that hard chair and everything. So what makes an asylum seeker to make the decision to become an asylum seeker?
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 27:21
Yeah, it's funny because in a French show, someone was saying that we often think that asylum seekers have nothing to lose when they come to another country, and it couldn't be further away from the truth. They actually leave so much of their lives behind, and they have lost so much to— yes, to go to another country. And I think many of us don't realize that.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 27:44
Even some people like you who come from the free and safe country, yeah, they say the most courageous woman is the one who migrates. And those women who've been to migrate all by themselves and lonely, it should take them a lot more courage. At the beginning when I came here, when I met some people, oh, I came from Germany, I came from Europe, I— why did you come here? I couldn't think because for me the freedom that I didn't have there was the biggest trigger. There is something in you you're searching that you couldn't find over there. You have to migrate to somewhere else to discover what you had in yourself.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 28:23
Yeah. One of the things I find fascinating about this podcast is when I ask the question, why did you leave? For those who were not forced to leave their country, everyone has a different answer. Some people escape their home because they don't feel a sense of safety, psychological safety, emotional safety in their home, and they want to be free from that to heal, to grow. I feel like this one is probably the most common. It's quite rare that you leave your country when everything at home is going right, you know.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 28:57
Yeah.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 28:57
Often you leave for a reason, you know.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 29:00
There is something in you that only you can discover, and the place you're living right now doesn't give you enough trigger to discover, and you have to move it to somewhere else to let that inside you come out for you to be prosper.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 29:14
It is. And about your book, I imagine that reflecting on that period of your life made you feel something. It probably brought some memories that you didn't really wanna, I don't know, did it challenge you in any way?
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 29:31
To be honest, some of the memories, it belongs to 11 years ago, I totally forgot. And when I was writing it, it all came back and I was crying in some parts which I read. How could I be able to forget that? Not only the hunger and being thirsty, the feeling that we had with each other. How could I be able to forget? Some of them I never seen again. Some of them I hardly have any news from them. And writing this book actually made me, even though they might not welcome it, "Hello, how are you? This is me. Do you remember me?" Yeah, it was like I am experiencing it one more time. But with the feeling of the safety that I'm not gonna die because when I had the fear of dying in the ocean, didn't let me to enjoy their company and presence.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 30:17
So you've, you've recontacted some of them and how did that go?
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 30:21
Oh, they were a bit surprised actually. I think there should be a reason for us not to forget it. The misery that we had and the fear that we had and the stress that we had might die in the ocean. Now we are settled down, 10 years passed. I think everybody hardly even think about it every day. But remembering it make us to appreciate every moment of our life. Every time, since the beginning when I came to Australia, every time I met someone, I said, "You take life for granted. You don't know how people's daily life passes in other countries." Yeah, that's what I think. I think we should never forget it. Life is always like that. By the moment the hardship is finished, you keep forgetting it. Yeah.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 31:03
The brain is conveniently forgetting the things that made us suffer in some ways, but it's actually really useful to remember them, to put things in perspective.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 31:13
Remembering it, but not suffering from it.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 31:15
Yeah. It's true. And so I have two questions that I like to ask to the guests on the podcast and The first one is, when I say the word refugee, what does it evoke to you? What comes to your mind?
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 31:30
Before I come to this journey, I'm not saying it was meaningless to me, but it wasn't a proper meaning for me. But now I think everyone who seek asylum must be very courageous. So the word of refugee for me is equal with the meaning of being courageous. Yeah.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 31:53
I have another one that may challenge you as well, because I know that your relationship with Australia has been, how can I describe it? You've struggled with feeling a sense of belonging to Australia, but I usually ask to guests what it means for them to be Australian. Have you reflected on that? What it means for you?
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 32:14
Uh, I cannot answer that question. I don't have this feeling that I'm Australian, even though I'm very thankful and appreciate it a lot. Even after 10 years, they granted me my permanent residency. Don't take it away from me. I, I still live there, but I cannot answer that question. I don't feel Australian.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 32:35
Hmm.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 32:35
I still see the distance between myself and those who are born in here. Not only because their language is much better for me or they have been settled here better than me. I still don't have that feeling that I'm Australian.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 32:53
What would it take for people to make you feel a bit more Australian? What would it take for people to make you feel more included?
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 33:02
Oh, I met a lot of good people that tried to make me or everyone else feel included. It's not that I didn't get the feeling from the people, But the process was too long. So maybe if it happened in first few years, so I could be able to bring my son in here, we live together, which was my dream. And this dream is gone right now. But after 10 years, it was like offering me a very cold coffee. It still is coffee, still it has all the things to cheer you up. I mean, It still has the effect, but it's not the hot coffee to take away that tiredness. It's not even an iced coffee that I can take in a hot day. Exactly, a cold coffee.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 33:48
Yeah, it's a cold coffee on a cold day.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 33:51
Yes.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 33:52
Where you don't need the cold coffee.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 33:54
You still have it. It's not that you reject it. You still have it. It still changes the taste of your mouth and your feeling. But it's not the feeling that when it was hot and you really needed that.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 34:07
I really love the metaphor. I think it's going to stay in my mind forever.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 34:11
I love that.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 34:13
And for those who would love to follow your work or what you do, or you just, you, your life, where can they find you and contact you? Do you use Facebook?
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 34:22
Well, I have a very active page on Instagram and I appreciate if they follow me on Instagram. It's called Mahshit. Taste with No Space. And I published my first book about Persian tradition and cuisines, and it's not only about a recipe book, it's also a history book. Next to each recipe, there is a story behind that recipe and the culture. And for the other job, we have a page on Facebook, it's called House of the Solemn Seekers, regarding all the activities we do.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 34:54
Well, thank you so much, Mashid, for sharing your story. It's an inspiring journey that you've been on, and it really helps to put things in perspective.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 35:05
Well, thank you so much for giving me this chance. I was a little bit worried about my English would not be enough to go around, but you managed it perfectly. You managed it perfectly.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 35:17
Oh no, your English is great. And you know what? I have the same fear every time. I don't know if you experience that, but I have days where my English is less good than others?
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 35:27
Yes. I don't know if you have the same feeling or not, but when you speak another language, it's like there are two people inside you.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 35:34
Hmm.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 35:35
You've been one and now you're two. You're right. Some days it gets faded for some reason. I don't know. Even the words that I was speaking fluently, it's like unblocked, but it's, I think, related to the daily matters, I guess.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 35:49
Yeah.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 35:50
Yeah.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 35:50
And it's quite hard to control as well because sometimes it's so random. Sometimes you have a great English day and you're like, oh my gosh.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 35:57
Yeah.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 35:57
I can speak and it translates well and it's just happening. And some other days it's just like, oh no, I feel like I'm so much dumber. It sounds so much dumber than what I tried to convey.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 36:08
But do you have the same level of energy every day?
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 36:11
No, no, no, no, no. So I think it's that, the amount of sleep you get, how much you've worked as well during the day and things like this. But anyway, I think we should really celebrate the fact that we are doing an episode with two persons having English as a second language. And hopefully people will like it too.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 36:29
Oh, they like it. Be sure they like it.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 36:32
Well, thank you so much, Mashied.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 36:34
It was an absolute pleasure.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 36:36
Ah, amazing to have you.
Mahshid Babzartabi (Guest) · 36:39
Thank you.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 36:44
Thank you for listening to this heartfelt conversation with Mashied. If her story resonated with you, I have some exciting news. Mashid has now completed and self-published her new book. So if you want to buy a copy, contact Mashid directly via Instagram or Facebook. I don't think she has it on Amazon yet, so use the links under the show notes to contact her. Also, if you want to help us become more visible, please like, follow, and share the show. Next week, I will be interviewing Dinesh Balipana, another incredible migrant who has a powerful story to tell. I was your host, Emma Bellamy, and I cannot wait to bring you on another journey from There to Here.
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