Mark Henderson · 56 min
A man who married for life finds himself trapped in a rising tide of family abuse, misdiagnosis, and silent suffering, and must learn to save himself before he can save his sons.
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Mark Henderson married for life, or so he thought. He chose a woman who was intelligent, dynamic, and beautiful, and together they had three sons. For years, the relationship felt fractious but full of laughter. Then something shifted. His ex-wife became ill, though she wouldn't acknowledge it. Mark found himself trapped, not by a single breaking point but by a rising tide he couldn't escape. He stayed because of his three boys, absorbing what felt like unfairness and abuse because leaving seemed like abandoning them to something worse.
A counselor's simple intervention changed everything. Midway through their second session, she stopped and told Mark he didn't need to return. She would work with his ex-wife alone. That moment of validation, that someone else could see the problem wasn't him, cracked something open. Years later, after his ex was finally diagnosed with bipolar disorder, after hospitalizations and misdiagnosis and two weeks of being screamed at to leave, Mark found an apartment and signed a lease. When his ex said she thought she might be really sick, he nearly backed out. But in a counseling session, she told him with absolute conviction that she would never forgive him. And Mark realized he couldn't spend his one life living under that sentence.
Now, Mark speaks about his ex without bitterness. He has read her memoir, understands her experience, and acknowledges the parts of her he still loves. His three sons have found their own ground. And Mark has learned that doing the right thing doesn't guarantee life works out, and that's okay. What matters is meaning, kindness, and the knowledge that hope will come around again.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses domestic & family violence, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • 1800RESPECT (family, domestic & sexual violence): 1800 737 732 · 1800respect.org.au
“I found myself caught in a cage and the tide was rising and it was really terrible and I couldn't get out of the cage because there were three sons involved.”
“I had been pushed up against the wall with her elbow in my throat.”
“Validation I felt was huge — it was like I was in the confines of a situation and the tide was rising, and suddenly it was like the plug had been pulled.”
The hero, today
Mark stayed in the marriage for his three sons even when it meant absorbing what he experienced as unfairness and abuse, because leaving felt like abandoning them to worse harm. A counselor's simple intervention, stopping mid-session and saying Mark didn't need to return, gave him the first real validation that the problem wasn't him, and that permission to question his own blame made space to eventually leave. Mark found liberation not in doing the right thing anymore, but in accepting that doing right doesn't guarantee life works out, which freed him to make decisions based on his own survival and his children's welfare rather than his own sense of duty. The most decisive moment came when his ex told him with absolute conviction that she would never forgive him, and Mark chose not to spend his one life living under that sentence, even though it meant ending the marriage. Mark has no animosity toward his ex now because he also saw her humanity through reading her memoir and understanding her experience, which allowed him to separate her illness and behavior from his decision to leave without carrying bitterness.
Yes. Mark Henderson is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Mark stayed in the marriage for his three sons even when it meant absorbing what he experienced as unfairness and abuse, because leaving felt like abandoning them to worse harm.
A counselor's simple intervention, stopping mid-session and saying Mark didn't need to return, gave him the first real validation that the problem wasn't him, and that permission to question his own blame made space to eventually leave.
Mark found liberation not in doing the right thing anymore, but in accepting that doing right doesn't guarantee life works out, which freed him to make decisions based on his own survival and his children's welfare rather than his own sense of duty.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 00:03
Welcome to the Kintsugi Heroes podcast, where we share inspirational stories of everyday people going through different challenges and how they overcome them. Please be aware that the story you're about to hear may have moments of deeply felt emotions and personal experiences. If anything you hear has a triggering effect, please reach out to someone who can help keep you safe. If you love this conversation, please like and share it with your friends so we can continue to share more inspiration and hope to as many people as possible. Now listen up for our next hero's story. And in this episode, I met with Mark Henderson and his very real and everyday yet serious story of being a victim of family abuse. You know, he tells the story of the journey that he went through with his wife and how she eventually was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. But through the journey of being with her, the impact it had on him and then his mental well-being as well. You know, it really shows how important it is that we take care of ourselves, but also that others around us, especially in our families, can really impact us. And also how it impacts everyone else, right? And it's, it's wonderful that Mark was able to navigate his way out the way he did. And I love the clarity and the warmth and the heart that he gave his story. I hope you enjoy this one with Mark Henderson. Well, here we are. It's another episode of Kintsugi Heroes. I'm Aveline Clark, and my guest today is Mark Henderson. Mark, it's lovely to have you here. How are you?
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 02:04
I'm good. It's good to be here, Aveline.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 02:07
Thank you. I'm really grateful for your time and, you know, you being able to show up and share your story with me and, and everybody else listening. So let's, let's get started, shall we? How about I hand over to you and ask you to take us back to the beginning of your story? Where does it start? And, uh, you know, maybe give us some context, you know, what was going on for you at the time the story starts?
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The most decisive moment came when his ex told him with absolute conviction that she would never forgive him, and Mark chose not to spend his one life living under that sentence, even though it meant ending the marriage.
This conversation includes a lottery win with conditions, the woman he married, the cage and the rising tide, the counselor's intervention, the house swap and the quiet floor and shaking hands with strangers.
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 02:33
Sure. Well, look, I, I first, firstly, I'd like to say it feels a bit of an honor to be here. So thank you for interviewing me, but, uh, there's another part, part of it where I'm nothing special or extraordinary. I'm just, I mean, I like to think I am in my own little world. I work hard and I apply myself and I've had many opportunities in my life, you know, a really rich life. Like, uh, as I said, if you were born in Australia, you kind of won the lottery, you know. So, uh, especially, especially with my circumstances, I suppose. Um, in terms of, uh, you know, position and circumstances. But, uh, but where my story starts, well, um, where does any story start? Starts at the beginning, I guess. I married this intelligent, dynamic, beautiful woman, and, uh, and, uh, and it was, it was great, you know. I, I, we, we always had a difficult, fractious relationship, and at times we split up, but we'd get back together, and, uh, Fantastic, right? Like a lot of laughs, really funny, really funny person. Uh, as I said, quite dynamic, energized, educated. Um, but then over time she, and we had 3 great kids, 3, 3, 3 fantastic children together, 3 sons. But over time she, she became more fractious. She became ill. And, uh, and, and she was in big denial over this. So when I sit there and say, you know, what, what's my tough story? I need to start by saying it's tied into her tough story and it was tough. It was her experience in it and it was pained and it still is pained. Um, and, uh, and in some ways, uh, you know, I married, married this, this woman and, uh, and I was very much, uh, you know, let's get it right, marry for life sort of thing. And, um, which might be a dream. And even when I married, I knew it was kind of a bit of a dream, but, uh, nonetheless, you know, you're going there open-eyed and, and, and full of hope and care and, and love, all of that stuff. So that was, um, where my story started. And, uh, and, uh, my ex now, uh, she became She, she started becoming ill. I, I know that when I was preparing for this, it was like, what was the, what was the event? What was the thing that happened? And there wasn't an incident. There wasn't an event. It was more like over time I, I found myself caught in a cage and the tide was rising.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 05:20
Mm-hmm.
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 05:22
And it was really terrible, you know, it was really terrible. And, um, and I couldn't get out of the cage because there were 3 sons involved.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 05:34
So, Mike, when you say the cage, are you talking about the walls of the marriage itself? So was it the relationship?
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 05:41
Yeah, it was, it was, it was in the relationship and it was in, in that circumstance. And walls of marriage is an interesting term, Evelyn, because, uh, there is also that idea of what we bring into a marriage, our background and our hopes and, and that, um, the ideas of marriage, which were present and happily present, you know, happily present. And, uh, but then things happened. Um, she, she, well, she would do things. She would say things to me sometimes and okay, you have your normal to and fro in a relationship, but some, in a way she was more Like I'm quite a bold and empowered sort of guy. I'm articulate and, uh, you know, I have a lot of, but she was kind of bigger and tougher than me. Uh, she was kind of bigger and tougher than me. She was dynamic.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 06:38
Was it, is it naturally that she was that way or did she kind of be bigger and tougher than you because she felt she had to be? You know, what was that dynamic?
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 06:47
A little bit of both. There was always a bit of a dynamic of competitiveness. Which I reflect back in our relationship. Uh, but she was also, um, look, as we came out, right, she had this thing called bipolar, bipolar 2. It was misdiagnosed for a long time. And, uh, you know, if you look at the 1% of people supposedly that might have this, they over-contribute in terms of contribution to the arts and invention and You know, they're kind of brilliant. She had this ability when I say she was dynamic and intelligent. She did have the ability to sometimes, you know, to be too unfrozen in conversation among a whole group of people. And she could suddenly just go snap, grab it and just say something insightful. You know, she had this dynamic about her, which is really attractive. You know, it was really great. And I'm a bit more of a thinker in that. A bit more sanguine. So I'm sort of like, the wheels are churning in my head, but I'll, um, I'll let them churn. I'll let them churn and munch and grind for a bit, and I'm okay with that. And, uh, and that almost is like going on in the background sometimes for me, quite often. So, uh, until I'll, until I'll, I'll, I'll try to give it a narrative, give some language to it. Words are important for me. Uh, in, in, I mean, they're important for everyone, but I've seemed to really try to struggle to find the right ones. And, uh, it's important. So look, anyway, I was, I was within the confines of this relationship and, and, uh, she'd do things which I remember sitting there and thinking, that's not fair. That's not fair. Like what you're doing, what you're saying, or I'd come up with something, you know, so, so, you know, to discuss it and suddenly be attacked, launched down my throat. And it's like, whoa, what's going on there? And if I question that, she was quick, you know, and she was, then I'm off balance and I'm being pressed. Um, so there was stuff like that was going on. Um, what else? She, um. This was also playing out with our children. So she was really, at times she was really aggressive. At times she was like, she was vacant. She was not, she was like depressed. And other times she was full on and, uh, and I mean full on swearing. Um, she gets so frustrated. I mean, I had been pushed up against the wall with her elbow in my throat, things like that. And, uh, become a big unit, right? Yeah. But I just don't use it. But she's not— she, I mean, she was a state athlete. She's 5'11" and about 75 or 80 kilos. But physically, I'm a big hard unit, but I'm not gonna— I'm not someone who's ever gonna— I don't use that. So, uh, and it was okay, you know, it was kind of okay, but it definitely wasn't okay on the other hand. Um, yeah, so there was that sort of abuse. Yeah.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 09:55
Yeah. Was she diagnosed at this point or was this kind of leading up to the diagnosis?
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 09:59
Oh no. So if, if I want to go back and say, where did it begin? So there's all this stuff going on. Um, at one stage, one of our kids had, uh, uh, he had a dyspraxia, so he couldn't get his words out. And we went and saw the speech pathologist and then a counselor at the hospital. And she sort of saw the way Kim was behaving and said, I think you might have depression. And, uh, and then we said, would you help us with this? And then she said, no, no, no, I deal with kids, but you should get it checked out. And then suddenly, um, my ex goes, well, we're about to go away, so let's do nothing. And we were, we were moving house. We're going to go to another state and work. I can transfer and work. And we thought, let's go have an adventure. And we did that. And then we got up there and she saw a doctor and she put on this great song and dance in front of doctors. I knew she was, but she was, she was acting strange. She was drinking more. She was up and down. She was aggressive at times. And, but she'd see a doctor and she's like, oh yes, well, you know, a mother of 3 kids and doing this and that and writing a book and doing and put on this song and dance. So the doctor's like, oh, your iron counts low, maybe. And I'm thinking, what do you mean? No way. I've had to put up with it. And so she just was in denial, denial, denial. And then at one stage, and this went on for years, and at one stage we had this time where I sort of said to, we had this fight in fact, and look, my ex is a published author, I should add. So she, and in memoirs, and she has, uh, She even teaches memoir writing and things like that. So she's got that energy to her. And the first book was just, um, was really great. It was about her growing up. And the second book was really, it starts with a fight and this between her and I, and this fight happened. Some of the events I remember differently. I ordered them slightly differently, but nonetheless, this fight did happen and it was fierce. It was swearing and gnashing of teeth, if you want, things like that. And, uh, but then reading her autobiography, she suddenly made the comment that, great, I got out of it again. And I suddenly realized and thought, wow, so that fight that I'm really hurt by, it was a tactic. It's a tactic to get out of it, you know, so she didn't have to be confronted with me going, this is unfair, this, stop behaving, stop behaving this way. And she caused that. And she might think it was also clever. I'm sure she doesn't now, but this is whittling away at trust and respect and kindness in my relationship. And it was whittling away at it. So, so we had this time, this particular period where she became so fierce and for 2 weeks she was screaming at me. And fiercely, and get out, leave, go on, why don't you just leave? And I was in, quietly in my own world, in tears, because I thought this fierceness is going to go from me to my 15-year-old son, my oldest child, and he's a child, he's going to be smashed. And, uh, but eventually I just sort of came to this idea that one of us are going to die. Whether it be me, whether it be her, be with one of my kids. And, uh, I had to— I didn't know what else to do. So I actually, um, went out one day and, um, met someone. You know, I didn't meet someone. I, I— that sounds wrong. I, I went and found a place to live. All right, I went and found a place. So, and shook hands with the man and his wife. No, a nice couple, about 10 years older than me. It was an apartment. I remember thinking, well, though I don't really have the money for this, I'm getting the 2-bedroom apartment with a bit more space because I fully expected my children would, would in quick succession be coming to live with me. Um, at least the oldest 2 boys. And, uh, then I went home and said, hey Kim, I've, um, I need to let you know, I just went and shook hands with someone to, uh, to take on a lease. And then she looked at me and went, Oh, Mark, please don't go. I think I might be really sick. I was like, oh, so I said, okay. So I rang up the person, pulled out— well, actually, I didn't say okay straight away. I said, okay, you've got to come to counseling with me. And she said, yeah, okay then. Again, in her book later on, I read that she had thought Mark would never get organized and organize that. It'll be like the other things I didn't organize. The two things being, one was I'd always said, let's do dancing classes together, thinking that'd be fun. And, uh, I never organized it because she moaned and groaned about how tired she was for week and week and week after. And the other one was I always thought it'd be great to foster a child. We've got the resources and I worked in human services and And, uh, but then she wasn't coping with 3 children. Taking on another child, that's really difficult. That possibly has, has, has issues and behavioral issue issues and needs to be really calm. So, so I never did that. But this time I went and found a counselor and I actually did my homework and, and asked quite a few people and, and I found this great lady. And, uh, so normally you go from a doctor to a counselor. We went straight to a counselor. And, uh, and this was, this is another important event for me. So we get to the first counseling session and my partner being the person she is, has this great big long list and I get hammered. I have her telling me I'm wrong. I have the counselor pretty much wagging her finger at me, but there's part of me I'm thinking, no, I'm, I'm not perfect, but I'm not I'm not that bad. I don't think I'm that bad anyway. And, uh, and then we get to the second counseling session and we get halfway through it and the counselor suddenly goes, stop, stop, just stop. Okay, Mark, I don't need to see you anymore. Kim, we need to get to and do some work if that's okay with you. Probably for the next 2 or 3 months. And, um, I mean, I kept a pretty straight face, but validation I felt was huge. It was like, as I said, you know, for me trapped in this, it was like I was in this confines of a, uh, situation and it was like the tide was rising and I could see that, you know, we were sick and eventually someone's going to drown. No, I was gonna drown. And suddenly it was like I could see down that the plug had been pulled and this might start draining out. Anyway, I got validated in a way and I thought, thank goodness. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I sort of kept my cool and I wasn't gonna close or anything, but there was a part of me inside was just going, oh yeah, wow. So I'm not all these bad things maybe. And, and, and yes, the. Relationship and marriage is in a difficult circumstance, but there's this other thing which is finally being called out and maybe it can be isolated. And that was, um, that's hugely important to me. And, uh, so then time went on and she did this counseling and then eventually I've got some big thing, but she was then misdiagnosed, right? So it was misdiagnosed as PTSD and depression. And, uh, and so then she went to the doctor and the doctor gave her a particular flavor of the drug of the month or whatever it was and didn't work. And then they went stronger and stronger and stronger, stronger, stronger, stronger until the doctor finally said, wow, most people get 20 milligrams of this. You're on 240 milligrams of this. And I think it was called Seroquel or something. Uh, I can't give you any more, which, um, and in hindsight, because I've done my homework sort of thing, um, really pathetic by the medical fraternity in my mind. So just, I'll keep upping your ant. And, uh, so she got referred to a psychiatrist who can then go beyond that level. And, uh, and then the psychiatrist missed it for another 8 months, 9 months. This involved my ex going in and out of, uh, mental health facility, uh, a private hospital, uh, fortunately, uh, and it was a tough time because in some ways, um, my ex is saying to me, oh, you've got to bring the kids to visit me, they've got to visit me the whole time. We all got Home myself and my 3 sons. I just think of them lying on the floor in the lounge room, on our backs, on the floor in the lounge room. And it was like, it's quiet. The household isn't being turned upside down. We can just chill. And my kids didn't want to go and see her. They didn't want to go there. And it was all quite pleasant, but they articulated really clearly. So I'd go and see her and, oh, why are our kids here?
Aveline Clark (Host) · 19:46
Where are my kids?
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 19:48
Where are my kids? And hey, they needed to chill out. They needed to get their own compass together, you know. And, and, uh, and so she was in there and she was only going to be there 2 weeks. Oh, 2 weeks, 2 weeks, 2 weeks. She was there for like 7 weeks. And, uh, and look, we did go and visit her. I, I, uh, but I wasn't going to force them and drag them every second day. It just wasn't going to happen. And, uh, Anyway, so, uh, again, misdiagnosed for ages. I think it was on the second time that she had to go back in that they finally went, mm, this is really tricky. And she got sent away and assessed by the, uh, some facility in Sydney. And, and there was the, like, technical director of Beyond Blue or some super duper. And he saw something and went, we might have this wrong. And then they worked out that it was bipolar. But in her case, she couldn't take the standard medication because of a previous medical issue when she was a teenager. So they were left playing with all these because it could throw out your thyroid. So they're left playing with all these, all these medications. Um, but I suppose that's, um, so that's all this background. So it was like, uh, the battle that I had was this Well, unfairness that I was treated with and the grief of losing a relationship, which wasn't lost. Hey, I mean, at the end of the day, I was back in effort counseling and trying to work it out, but there were some other points that happened along the way. So one time we went to a Super A-Mart to buy some shelving, right? To get a we were having some built-ins made at the house, and, uh, and the guy doing it, and the neighborhood builder, he sort of said, oh, look, just go to Supermarket, buy the stuff, you just whack it in, do it cheaper than I can do, it's not worth your time. And we went in there, and you're in like this warehouse, and shelving everywhere, and the, the shop guy, you know, he's about a man about my age, 5 years older than me or something like that, he came up and, and what Partner was talking to him and he just sort of went, "Does she always talk to you like that, mate?" I sort of went, "Huh?" He went, "I'll be over there if you want to talk to me." He wasn't having a bar of it. He just walked off. And it was a little innocuous thing, but for me, it was one of those moments where you sit up and think, wow, a guy who's meant to be helping me, you know, just, just, you know, pointing out which cupboards are around. Just goes toxic, man. I'm not, he's actually not wanting to be around it, but I'm living in it. Uh, you know, so these things are happening now over time. I mean, I, I also found myself now, um, one way or another, single parenting. So I was a single parent for the 3 boys. We, we tried different things. So at one stage we had this tiny little shack in the bush. And we left the kids in the home and Kim would live in, we'd swap. So instead of the kids going between the houses, the kids had the same house and the adults went between the houses. And that was pretty lonely and tough. And, uh, but it was our way of doing it to think, let's, let's give these kids stability and not a bad thing to do. Uh, and we're in this situation where we could do it and, uh, and we're prepared to do it. Uh, but it was tough. My kids would ring me up and go, Dad, you've got to come home. This is a nightmare. This is so bad. She's just screaming at us. And, uh, but I was sort of like, no, you're actually going to have to work out your relationship with your mother one way or another. You're going to have it forever.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 23:40
How old were they at the time?
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 23:42
Uh, so my eldest was, uh, uh, 15. 16, 15, 16, and then I had a 14-year-old and then a, uh, 11, 12-year-old. It was a bit, that was a bit worrying, a bit young, but he was kind of in his own world. And anyway, and, uh, he'd sort of, you know, oscillate to his room, be fairly quiet and pretty easy to live with. But, uh, but they'd get quite upset. They'd sit down and go, we'd be able to talk to her and she's only on the phone to her friends. She's had all day to be on the phone to her friends. And, uh, I mean, you know, so, and when I was there, so, so eventually, look, we separated and I was a single parent. Um, and they'd see, see your mother, Pete. She, she went to live in the other house. And, uh, it was kind of fine because I'd already been working all the time and generally coming home and cooking half the time and cleaning all the time and trying to do some homework when things weren't disrupted and So life sort of got easier. Sorry for the interruption. This is Ian Westmoreland, the founder of Kintsugi Heroes, and thank you for listening to this story from one of our amazing heroes. Our mission is for these stories to provide hope and inspiration to people experiencing life challenges and to also educate the broader community on how best to provide support. If you would To help us to continue to produce more hero stories and cover more adversity themes, we would welcome all donations. These can be made via our website, kintsugiheroes.com.au. The donate function is at the bottom of the homepage. We'd also welcome any feedback. You can email me direct using ian@kintsugiheroes.com.au. Now let's get back to the story.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 25:35
Yeah, I could imagine. I can imagine. Um, what was the, what was the transition to agreeing to separate? Like, how did that go? Did it, did it come about from a fight or was it actually a mutually agreed pathway?
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 25:51
Uh, it was a mute, I think it was mutually agreed. It didn't, there wasn't some explosive point in that. So, uh, those, those factors, there were little things that happened. So, um, so I joined a group called, called Mentors for Men, which was near the area I lived. And it's basically a fraternity group of men. Uh, generally these guys are, uh, a generation to two generations older than I am. And we'd meet on a Thursday and, and chat and, uh, starts with a bit of a check-in. So you go around a circle and where are you? Where are you at? And you can actually just, and these guys, I'd got to know them quite a bit over time. And these guys had, I suppose, you know, there was respect, there was a depth of knowledge with each other and we shared a lot for a long time and, or quite a while anyway. So, and there was one time you could easily sort of take the talking stick and just pass on and say, I'll pass today. But I had actually hadn't said, ah, I'm numb. I've got nothing to say. And, uh, and went to pass it on. And actually, one of these guys, which you normally wouldn't do in that sort of circle, just said, 'Not good enough, Mark. What's going down?' And a few others nodded their head as if, like, what's happening? And, uh, I had to step into where my numbness lay and, uh, So my job was, was working in human services, and I generally was up for working with the tough end. So I might be talking to someone who needs, who's in crisis, in, in need of something immediately, and sometimes you can't get it for them. Uh, but sometimes they, you know, it was tough. And, uh, and I think I'd, I'd dealt with my ex in the morning and basically got up and just been blasted for something and then come in to see this group of these guys and say, I'm numb, and saying, I, I'm not feeling, it's like I'm numb. And, and then having to step into that a bit and, and find what is in there. And, uh, it was that, it was a, um, a sense of injustice, I guess. And, and, uh, but then also saying, wow, you know, I, I can do all the right things and be thinking that this is the right things I'm doing and things still don't go right. And, uh, and that is my experience of the world. So that's what's going down for me. Um, so that was sort of like a seminal point for me, I guess, in its own little way. Something inside me goes, you know what, you, you think you're a good guy, you think you're doing the right thing. And whether you are or not, it still doesn't work. So screw it. Just screw it. Right? And, uh, and it was kind of liberating in its own way. As I said, I don't suddenly hit these points. I'm a bit more of a chew over things for a bit, but I think, uh, you know, this internal liberation went on. And that was a, that was a good sort of thing. Um, so that was where I actually, and I should say these men in this mentoring group, they also held me. Now they, they had my back and I'm, yeah, it was really good.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 29:27
With that liberation, Mark, Was that an acknowledgement that, and an acceptance that you didn't have to always do the right thing expecting life to give you roses and for everything good to happen back? Was it that letting go of your own sense of high expectation or, or a sense of duty? Was that it?
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 29:51
I think so. I mean, I still have a bit of a sense of duty, I guess. Um, responsibility. I think it's sort of— maybe it was duty, now it's evolved into responsibility in some ways. Because, uh, um, as I mentioned at the start, you know, I've, um, like, I, I've, you know, just outrageous, uh, in a way, um, what, what's been presented to me in this life. And, uh, and there's responsibility in that for me. Which, uh, you know, sort of work in some ways assiduously towards meeting an expectation. And, um, I'm not the smartest or brightest or hardworking or prettiest or any of that stuff, you know, but I can still put in what I can put in. And, uh, and sort of, and, and, and putting it in and putting that work in is sort of acknowledging something allows the givingness, uh, which, which, which, which allows a gratefulness now. And, uh, these are important things in, in my life and where I think I can offer something. Um, yeah, so, so there are important aspects.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 31:07
Um, so you gave yourself permission to not feel that you had to keep giving in the marriage and keep doing the right thing, whatever that was for you.
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 31:18
Oh goodness, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was, um, you know, it's, uh, it's interesting because my ex would still try to, you know, guilt trips on me. Oh, you know, you didn't do this, you didn't do that. But having, as she's a published author and I've looked at her books, uh, and part of it was a memoir, which is to do with our, uh, marriage. Very much in the marriage breakdown. So I'd go, I remember that event. And some things I, as I said, my recollection's a little bit different, but on the whole, you know, it's pretty true to form. And there were parts of it where I think that was, yeah, it's given me insights into what she was thinking there. You know, she's thinking, oh, I got out of it again. Or Or the parts where, you know, cause I would go into the recycle bin and go, cocky, there's another bottle and a half of wine in there. She's drinking, mother's drinking. And I thought, but the way she's behaving, wow. But she was a bit more clever than me. So she was drinking 2 and a half bottles of wine, but she was hiding the other one. So she was giving away a bit, but not giving away at all. Yeah. So good for her, clever her. You know, so, yeah, whatever. So, so there's those sorts of things.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 32:43
Um, so the mentoring men. Yeah. So that was that, do you think, the, the turning point that then enabled you to then go down this path of, you know, agreeing to separate and you finding your own way in a different, into, with a different internal, um, I guess I wouldn't say structure, but, you know, modus operandi, no longer needing to have that sense of responsibility or obligation.
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 33:15
But I think there were two other things. It was partly that I'm feeling supported and held by them in a way, but it was also that time, uh, I remember lying in bed and realizing that this was not going to go away. You know, so it's not going to get better. It's not going to suddenly be right. And I get that, but I was still up for going down this course of life. But then we had a particular counseling session. So we're still doing counseling, right? We're still trying to bring it together and we're still doing counseling. And there was this one counseling session where she just, Kim just looked at me and went, I don't forgive you. I'm never going to forgive you. I will never forgive you. And she said it with this venom and conviction. And, uh, I wasn't even particularly sure what I'd done wrong. I mean, I, I, I mean, I, I look, I did some things wrong, which I, which I get. Uh, so, um, but, uh, I mean, there was one, I mean, I, I had a boat and I took the kids out on the boat once and she asked me to make sure they wear life jackets. And, uh, between getting him ready and getting him on the boat and everything else, we didn't. Okay, and I get it, they should have worn life jackets. Uh, um, we can all swim like fishes, and you know, didn't happen in my youth, but nonetheless, unless they should have been, uh, I had agreed, I had agreed. But is that a never forgive you for the rest of my life? You know, with a with a— yeah, yeah, it kind of— and I— and that for me was a bit of a— I'm not living with that for the rest of my life. No, no, I get— you get to go around this game once, and, uh, well, at least in the one that you remember, I guess, or whatever. And, and I, uh, no, no. And, and I— and, and there were kids, there were still children there were still children involved and things like that. So, and, uh, and, and the effort and energies that I want to apply in my life. So, so that, that was the way it is. That, that was a key point where I suddenly sort of thought, um, I came out of that session and I thought, I'm out, I'm out. I've had 2 years of counseling and all this stuff and in and out of hospitals and me doing everything, and I'm out. And that, that was that. Yeah.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 35:41
Did you ever think that you couldn't leave? Was there a sense before that moment that you really felt you, you were, you were there and you had to see it through?
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 35:53
Oh yeah. Yeah. So I, I mentioned earlier that, um, you know, I had this, this point where, uh, I'd, I'd been yelled at and screamed at for 2 weeks straight to, you know, piss off and all this stuff. And, uh, and I went and shook hands with these people and said, I'll take your, I'll take your place on. And, uh, and you know, I went, I mean, I had to go back to them and talk to them. I, um, and they were fine. They were gracious and lovely. But nonetheless, if I'm sitting there shaking hands with someone saying, okay, I'll take the lease. Um, that's kind of a bit of a deal, you know, for me to suddenly you sit there 24 hours later and go, well, actually I'm going to give it more of a go with my ex. Um, so, uh, yeah, up, up until probably that point, sure, can't answer that bloke, you know, I, I mind that. Yep, I'm in, I'm in for the fricking hard yards and the hard haul and, and still within those, I think, confines of a, of a marriage and, and, and had to be for my children. As I said, you know, uh, you know, when, when we did that sort of house swapping thing. And my 15-year-old is ringing me up in tears begging me to come home. That wasn't easy, right? That wasn't easy. That, that sucked. That sucked big time. And, uh, but, you know, I was damned if I do and damned if I didn't, you know. Like, if I, if I, if I stayed away, he's hurting. If I go in there, then she's sort of more, you don't stay out of here, you don't leave me alone, we're all fine. And Paul, and you are the one upsetting everything, whatever. So whatever. So, um, yeah, so we had those, those events, you know, along the way.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 37:40
How did you manage to get the, the kids without, uh, I mean, did she put up a fight when you agreed to separate and you, you became a single dad? What was the negotiation or the agreement there?
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 37:52
She knew she was sick. She had, she has some insight and, uh, and the kids are pretty clear where they want to be and what they want to be doing. So, uh, so we, we did that. Um, and she was kind of happy, you know, there was a part of her which was happy. So she had started writing this, this memoir from the start of her life and, uh, and it was advancing. You know, she was in book negotiations, so, so she was published, um, you know, by an external author and stuff like that. So, uh, by publishers or whatever. So, which is kind of a big deal, I think. I think they get about 20 or 30 manuscripts a month and they, they take on 3 or 4 a quarter. Uh, so, so it's pretty hard to get published, I get. And, uh, And yeah, she'd been through, I mean, I'd helped edit the first one, she'd edited things like, so that was sort of exhausting for her. So she was happy to be away in her little cabin, um, working and me looking after stuff and heck, uh, from as far as I'm concerned, and I actually saw me looking after the children as actually honoring part of our relationship. So I don't want to give the impression that she was an uncaring mother. She was a great mother. Great mother for a longer stage and mental health overtook us.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 39:19
Uh, yeah.
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 39:20
Yeah. So that sort of stuff went on and, uh, and in our commitment of the marriage is the idea that let's, and this is about kids, right? Kids come first. Like when we had our kids, it wasn't a, um, oh, here's two adults and the child's coming along for the ride. No, there was a family going for the ride and there were adults and there was a child and we were cool with that. We were on the same page with that. And I actually see that the efforts and energies I've put into my children over time is still honoring part of that commitment.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 39:53
Hmm. It's lovely. It's really lovely. How did your boys cope after the separation and beyond?
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 40:02
Oh man. So the oldest one, he, uh, one of my friends pointed out really quickly, he was like, He's cruisy while he's cruisy, and then there's any stress, he's just, he's away, he's disappearing. And he was. And we lived in a nice little sort of ishie, uh, surfy town on the north coast of New South Wales, and he was safe. So he'd be at his mate's place and riding a bike and going for a surf and out the door and here, there, and everywhere. But it wasn't to say there weren't still really fractious times. I mean, um, Yeah, no, there were tough times with that, and they, and they took a toll at one stage. I remember, um, uh, after, um, I remember being in the police station with my oldest son. So Kim had done the whole arm up against the throat thing against him, uh, when I was away one time, and, uh, he pushed her over onto a bed. And then she'd rung the police and this, oh, and the laws had just changed about something. This overzealous police officer was hassling Kim. You've gotta, you've gotta press charges. And she said, oh, okay. And suddenly the police were chasing him down at his footy training. He's 15. It's just wrong. And, uh, and then suddenly, so I'm meeting him at the police station. And this police officer is just, she is just really wrong. And I'm saying, you're not getting it. This isn't a policing matter. This is a mental health matter. And you're giving it the wrong end of the stick. She was really overzealous. And, uh, but I'm there standing with my son and there's this, um, circle up on the wall, which is, they call it cycle of abuse. And there's these 8 types of different domestic abuse you can go through. Um, we will. We're sort of joking, we'll be going, oh, number 1, yeah, that applies to us. Oh yeah, number 2, that applies to us. Oh yeah, number 3, that one too. Oh, number 4, maybe not. Oh, number 5. Oh yeah, number 6. And sort of this crazy demented humor, but nonetheless, yeah. And I'm there experiencing that with my son. As it happens, it was just, um, you know, at the end of it, you know, the police officer, uh, we actually walked out. Right, when we're meant to be waiting for an AVO. And police officer runs out, what are you going for? And I just ripped into him. I said, mate, it's 11:30, this child needs to be in bed, he has school the next day. Stop being so tardy with how long you're taking to write your AVO up. Yeah, get it together, you know. Oh, I could arrest you. Like, bring it, mate. Yeah, like, I'm not some wimping wallflower, mate. I know my rights. You want another world of difficulty, I'll give it to you. And, uh, I didn't say that to him, but I'm thinking it in my head. I'm thinking, no way, you know, I want to get my child home in bed. So yeah, there was— so there was— so yes, it impacted my kids and they had to deal with that, but we talked these things through. My second child, at one stage he took off with the girlfriend's family, and wrong, it was wrong on so many levels. He was, uh, He might have been 15 at the time or 16, just turned 16 or something. And, uh, so I was away. Kim was going to look after the kids. She had mental health. She was, yep, I checked in every day. I organized for her to get a massage once a week. There was a cleaner coming into the home. Everything was in place and I was going overseas with a friend or meeting a friend overseas to help him with, uh, with an art exhibition, 3 weeks off. I needed a break. It was like, and then I arrive in America and I get this call and Kim's gone to hospital and the grandmother's gonna check in on the kids, but the grandmother just drives them all mad. Eh, eh. And, uh, do I come home? Do I stay away? And then I come home and the family of my second son's girlfriend all of a sudden decides to leave town, take a lease up in Queensland and move with him. They're save, they've got this savior mentality. And suddenly I come home and my 16-year-old's sort of absconded with the girlfriend's family and I'm not cool with this, right? Really well-meaning, nice family. I mean, the father's a doctor, the mother's a do-gooder, but it was just— no, it was wrong. It was really wrong. And, uh, as it happens, yeah, they're telling, oh, we've got him for life. And as it happens, he was back in 4 months, you know what I mean? But tail between the legs. I remember him knocking on the door and me opening the door and him being there. That must have been really tough. Like really tough. And, uh, and yeah, he basically communicated that he couldn't talk to me because he just knew I'd talk him around, but he just couldn't do it. And, uh, but knocking on the door and I remember seeing him and thinking, I've just made a curry and some rice, you hungry? And so we just sort of picked up from there, you know, like, what do you say? And, uh, so that was, that was okay. And, uh, Yeah, and the youngest child, um, he has a very difficult relationship with his mother. Uh, yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's a tough one. But, um, and you know, the youngest is, uh, 19 now, and the other's 23 and 22, and, and we're reasonably nice adjusted fellas. Yeah, one's completed his degree and the other one's sort of starting his other one, and they're getting on. They're quite independent. Uh, Mm-hmm. Which I'm, I'm pretty good with. I, I tend to think, you know, getting independent a little earlier in life is you get on with life, you know, like live an adult life. Um, so, but you still want to be caring towards them.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 46:06
So did you have someone or something, uh, or a belief or a faith that helped you through those very, what sounds like pretty tricky, tough, confusing, tumultuous years? In the cage.
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 46:23
Yeah, yeah. Uh, I suppose I have a self-belief in myself. And where does that come from? I look at that and I think, um, as I said, you know, I, I love— you know, I got brought up by stable, loving parents. That wasn't great, it was just a regular, you know, things, ups and downs like parents do, but nonetheless stable, loving parents, quite well resourced. Uh, you know, in a nice neighborhood, played with the neighborhood kids and, and had a fair bit of freedom. I had a fair bit of freedom for my, um, for my, uh, generation, I guess. Uh, in, in some regards. So my, my mum, I mean, my mum, uh, actually worked part-time at a time when most women didn't work. Uh, But she was, yeah, pretty clever and pretty hardworking. She was just, yeah, she was quite clever and hardworking, I guess. So, you know, my dad was sort of similar, you know, working all the time. So, but I had that and it was stable and consistent. So I think that was good. So in terms of that internal sense of who I am was generally there, I think I I think it got diminished and a bit demoralized. Uh, but as I said, I had little things like when the, um, psychologist, this really experienced psychologist, sat there and said, Mark, I don't need to work with you. Kim, I need to work with you. And, uh, and I kind of knew that when I, when I'd organized. She was— Kim wouldn't have gone on her own. She needed to go in a couple. And that's okay. I mean, I said we were married, so Uh, you know, so that little bit there, it was almost like, you know, some bands got taken off me and I went, that's right, I'm, I'm actually, uh, I've got this, I've got this. Uh, so yeah, that, that sort of aspect, um, you know, that, that stability and love which, which received early in life, I think is, is important. Uh, yeah, yeah. And I said, in a sense of hope. You know, things change, things change in life and problems, uh, you know, what does it go, you know, problems are really just, just opportunities in some ways. Is, is that, that, that language I've often, I've had that language all my life of, of what do you call, they call it, uh, reframing now, I think. Uh, I don't know. Um, a good solid positive mental attitude, I think, is, shouldn't be underestimated. Good.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 49:00
You know, the way the things that you've spoken about, Mark, I know a lot of people could probably relate to this. You know, where, I mean, uh, divorce rate's very high, but there's, there's a lot that goes on before you get to that divorce rate, that, that moment. And it's tough, you know, relationships are tough and, you know, you've got this family unit and I think I think what you've shared here is very reflective of life, human story. You know, this is what happens with humans being together, someone not being well, and, and how that plays out. And I have to say, thank goodness you did have that internal sense of self instilled in you from when you were a young boy to be able to weather that storm the way that you did.
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 49:54
I've been pretty lucky. Pretty lucky. Um, yeah, I mean, I like to think this might be somewhat helpful, um, in that I've had two, two interesting things. One is that, uh, in terms of my work, I worked in human services. I worked with families. All right. So I would, I bet you went to single parents every week and, uh, and I, and I do the background research as well. So there's, there's interesting research out there about how to guide and helping children during the, these processes and with partners and ex-partners. So, well, I had a sense of that. And then there's the other part where my ex wrote a memoir, which I got to read. So I got to read the background thinking and go, oh, that's right. Yeah. But, but it's confronting, as I said, uh, page 1 is, I think within the first 3 lines, it's swearing between us, you know, which in print is only, uh, and, and her memoir is written as something like raw and confronting, which is her all over. But she's dynamic and intelligent and pretty fired up. Yeah. So, which is great. Great. Things I loved about her and the aspects that I still love about her. I don't, I, um, yeah, she's in my life one way or another. And yeah, yeah. She, uh, but you know, life goes on. Life goes on.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 51:15
Yeah, what a beautiful way that you've been able to acknowledge her and the role that she's played in your life and continues to play in your life, you know, as the mother of your, your sons, and now still always will be the mother of your sons. And, and just talking to you, I can see there's no animosity, there's nothing. You've got a smile on your face. Obviously you've moved on and you, you're happy And like you said, you know, you're lucky, you love your life, you're doing amazing things with the community, helping people, and you've got 3 well-adjusted boys. I mean, what a, what a great place to be, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 51:56
It's good. It's good. I am, yeah, pretty, pretty, pretty lucky with it all. So I suppose I am. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Something's smiling on me, I guess.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 52:09
Great.
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 52:09
But, um, but you know, it's not over yet. You know, like we, we, we, uh, it's interesting. I, you know, I read through some of the, the ideas of, you know, what, what's the events in your life? What's this? And I, I sometimes think it's, um, you know, life is progression. We're not, it's not getting to mountaintops and planting flags. It's about walking up the mountain. Right. Just slogging your guts out, walk up the mountain. Uh, A lot of us say, oh, you know, happiness, happiness. It's, it's a— happiness may or may not come along, right? Do things that, to me, and I've researched this stuff now, do stuff with meaning. If happiness comes along, great, good for you. If it doesn't, that's okay too. Um, I have a broken arm at the moment. I could have a really negative language around it, but it's just something I'm going to have for a couple of months. It's actually going to heal okay. And so I need to calm down. So this is a gift. It's not like a gift I would have chosen, right? You know, like, you know, open up the Christmas tree, you know, roller skates. Ah, yeah. Smile at the child who just gave me the roller skates. But yeah, you know, what do you do? What do you do? You try them on, you give it a go.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 53:28
Yeah, so that's right. Um, as we come to a close, Mark, I want to thank you for sharing that, that your journey and your experiences, and it's been really insightful, really insightful. If someone is listening to this who is experiencing anything like what you've shared with us today, what would you like to tell them?
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 53:54
It might seem counterintuitive, but honor your pain, honor your difficult bits, because, um, unless you know you're alive, you know, so I once heard a movie review and the movie reviewer said, it's really great that I've gone and seen this really terrible movie because it lets me appreciate how much good work and hard work and how hard it is to make a good film. And, and it sounds odd, but we have our count— we have our counter, our counters in us, the opposites that let us then appreciate something else. So something's good, something's bad. Okay. But they're still you and, and you endure. And, and what are the enduring things? You know, hope and kindness and joy. And they will come around again.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 54:47
That's, that's beautiful. Thank you.
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 54:50
Pleasure.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 54:50
Really appreciate that. Yeah. Wow. What a beautiful answer. Didn't expect it. Um, and yet just so, so real. So true. Thank you.
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 55:02
Yeah, no probs. Love to be included.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 55:05
Really appreciate it. Oh, absolutely. And by the way, you know, the thing that you said at the very start about you're not sure that you, you know, you were deserving this honor. You're human. Every, every human that goes through life and humanness and weaves their way through the challenges, like you said, doesn't have to be an event. But you did, and you've woven your way through these challenges and shared your story. And by sharing your story today, you've connected with others without even realizing it yet. Those that listening are connecting with you and going, wow, he went through a really tricky time. And look at him now, and, and he's given us, or me, that sense of understanding and clarity. And that's what this is about. So thank you for sharing, and I really appreciate your, your energy and vulnerability and opening up.
Mark Henderson (Guest) · 55:57
Pleasure. Pleasure. Yeah.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 56:01
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