Martin Gillespie · 57 min
After losing his mother, discovering a secret half-sibling, watching his sister die of cancer, losing his father in a freak accident, and navigating a marriage breakdown, all within two years, Martin Gillespie was then diagnosed with Stage 4 blood cancer, and chose to treat it as a new beginning.
Hear this story
Martin Gillespie emigrated from Scotland to Sydney in 2000 seeking a fresh start. He built a life that looked right on paper: a senior corporate job, a wife, two young daughters, a mortgage. By his late 30s, he was running hard on a treadmill he didn't know how to step off. Then, between 2010 and 2012, everything fractured. His mother died suddenly at 68. Six weeks after her funeral, he learned his father had fathered a secret child during a 35-year affair. His younger sister Denise died of inflammatory breast cancer at 37, just days before the second anniversary of their mother's death. Six weeks after her funeral, his father fell from a garden wall and bled to death. His marriage collapsed under the weight of it all.
In the wreckage, Martin noticed a small lump under his jaw. What followed was a diagnosis of Stage 4 non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. Tumours the size of golf balls lined his neck, armpits, and groin. He was told he had no stage 5. He was preparing to die.
But something shifted. A psychologist asked him to write his own obituary. Those words became a turning point. Martin stopped running from his grief and started running toward his purpose. He learned that nutrition and real food could be medicine. He discovered that asking for help was not weakness but survival. He found a team of people, a community, a way to live that was no longer about performance or hiding. Ten years later, he left the corporate world and started a wellbeing consulting company. He is not defined by what broke him. He is defined by what he built from the cracks.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses grief & loss, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au • GriefLine: 1300 845 745 · griefline.org.au
“There was a little voice in me saying you can't talk about your feelings Martin that's a failure.”
“It took something as strong as cancer to make me stop.”
“My relationship with cancer I'm actually thankful of cancer because it was on the wrong pathway.”
The hero, today
Martin did not reach out for help during the early years of grief and stress because he believed asking for support was a failure, and he suppressed his feelings the way most men do. When Martin's body broke down, he realised he had been ignoring an inner voice telling him to seek professional help, and it took something as strong as cancer diagnosis to make him finally stop and listen. Martin learned that your gut health impacts your mental health and mindset, and that real food and lifestyle changes can be as significant to healing as medical treatment. Martin sees the power of having a team of people around him where mutual learning happens, and where he can disagree with them respectfully while staying in relationship. Martin tells others that it is okay to cry, to show emotions, to be vulnerable with your partner, and to talk from your childlike instincts rather than letting fear judge your emotions. Martin does not allow cancer to dominate who he is; instead, he has found his purpose in helping others understand that health is the most important asset in life.
Yes. Martin Gillespie is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Martin did not reach out for help during the early years of grief and stress because he believed asking for support was a failure, and he suppressed his feelings the way most men do.
When Martin's body broke down, he realised he had been ignoring an inner voice telling him to seek professional help, and it took something as strong as cancer diagnosis to make him finally stop and listen.
Martin learned that your gut health impacts your mental health and mindset, and that real food and lifestyle changes can be as significant to healing as medical treatment.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 00:02
Welcome to the Kintsugi Heroes podcast, where we share inspirational stories of everyday people going through different challenges and how they overcome them. Please be aware that the story you're about to hear may have moments of deeply felt emotions and personal experiences. If anything you hear has a triggering effect, please reach out to someone who can help keep you safe. If you love this conversation, please like and share it with your friends so we can continue to share more inspiration and hope to as many people as possible. Now listen up for our next hero's story. And in this conversation, I met with Martin Gillespie. It was very uplifting, although it was quite shocking to hear of the personal tragedies and circumstances that he shared. In his story and got me really thinking about how I would respond in that kind of scenario, and it was quite difficult to come up with an answer. But what I loved about Martin's story and his whole energy and outlook on life is that he just saw it as opportunities to overcome, to learn, to become a better person. Overcoming stage 4 cancer and then going deep dive into health and finding ways that he could actually empower others and help people, and he's now doing that across the world. He's full of life and positivity, and it was a really lovely conversation. Enjoy this one with Martin Gillespie. Hello and welcome. Here we are, it's another episode of Kintsugi Heroes. And I am with Martin Gillespie. I'm really excited. How are you today, Martin?
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 02:01
I'm great, thanks, Avelina. It's an absolute pleasure to be here. Um, it's going to be a lot of fun and I'm looking forward to sharing some great stories with you and your listeners.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 02:11
Thank you. I'm looking forward to this as well. Um, from the first time I met you, there was a lot of energy and excitement. We had a few laughs and I don't know what your story is about, of course, and that I am very excited to hear from you. And how about we just get started? Can you get us going? Take us back to where does your story begin and then go from there?
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Martin sees the power of having a team of people around him where mutual learning happens, and where he can disagree with them respectfully while staying in relationship.
This conversation includes a scottish man arrives in australia, running, friendship, and meeting someone, the white picket fence years, his mother dies at 68, the discovery of a half-brother and his sister denise dies of cancer.
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 02:34
Okay. So as you can tell with my accent, my story began away in the land of Scotland. And I emigrated here in the year 2000. So naturally by emigrating, I raised the IQ level by several thousands percent, which was great. And I was a young man in my, you know, just turned in my 30s. And I have to be honest, moving from the UK to Australia, I actually found it a little bit challenging to assimilate. Didn't know that, didn't have the personal structures, the frameworks. I didn't go to school here. And I actually found it quite lonely in the first sort of 12, 18 months. Right? And a lot of people don't realize that it is. You're moving from the other side of the world. Although we speak the same language, there are several different nuances. And I'll be honest, I struggled a little bit. And, you know, that was— I overcame that by actually embracing sport as my go-to. And even in the UK, I was actually quite a decent runner, and I joined a running group to, to increase my social circle, which is so, so important. And from that, here in Sydney, I actually managed to meet a whole lot of people out with the framework of work, but also got to see some incredible parts of the country that are off the beaten track between roads and trails. And it was beautiful. And I got into a fantastic group of similar-minded people. We would go out running on a Saturday, have a couple of drinks on a Saturday night, but always looking after each other. It was a lot of fun. And through that, I actually met somebody. I was here about 2, 2 and a half years, met a girl and fell in love. And fast forward a couple of years in 2016, 2006, got married to an Australian, lovely girl. And then, you know, I was in my late 30s at that point. So 2006, got married. 2007, we brought the first beautiful child to the world, a young gorgeous girl. And then 2 years later, brought another gorgeous girl into the world. And then certain things happened. That here we are in our mid-30s, we're living that, dare I say it, that white picket fence mentality, working in a very senior corporate environment, mortgage, kids, that treadmill of life that every day is almost like Groundhog Day. And you're trying to balance everything and you've got so many balls up in the air. And I'll be really honest, I felt a little bit lost in who I was. I'd lost my identity in some ways, but I hadn't realized that. And one key thing that now, in retrospectively looking back, that's when I should have gone and maybe got some coaching or some help. But again, being Scottish, you're too stoic, you're a bit too you know, oh, I can't ask for help because that's, that's not what we're made from, if that makes sense.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 06:01
So were these— so could I just ask, Martin, were these feelings coming about as a result of having two young babies, like a baby and a toddler at that point? Is that right? Yeah.
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 06:11
And I, I think also I had no blood family here, so I had nobody really to sort of share my feelings, and I suppressed a lot of my feelings, if that made sense. And the feelings also of being a dad. I'd never been a dad before. And a lot of the focus is on the mom. And I'm not meaning in a sexist way, but I felt on the outside. And I'll be honest, I was struggling a little bit about adapting from corporate, married, having children, and then going, what am I doing? Who am I?
Aveline Clark (Host) · 06:49
Did you feel not necessarily, um, needed or important, or did your role change at the point of having children?
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 06:58
Probably all of them, actually, to be honest. Um, you know, I don't— I, I knew I was ready to be a father, don't get me wrong. However, I don't know if I was emotionally ready to know we're involved, and I also don't think I was getting enough support support, you know, whether it be male-to-male support, if that makes sense, as well. And I think that that's really important. But I didn't, I didn't, I didn't ask for help, and I don't know if my heart was open enough to understand that that's what I needed. Um, so I, I kind of struggled, but I, I suppressed those feelings like most, most men do. And that those feelings sort of amplified a little bit in, in that kind of stressful environment. I was in a very high-pressured corporate role that involved a lot of traveling. So I would be traveling in various locations throughout Australia and New Zealand, and then you're trying to go from that life to home life with two young kids. And I struggled a little bit on that, but I didn't know what to do, so I just ignored it.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 08:10
Did you share it with your wife?
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 08:14
No, because again, I felt I didn't have enough emotional intelligence in me, if that makes sense, and enough confidence to voice these out, these, these areas out. And there was a little voice in me saying, you can't talk about your feelings, Martin, that's a, that's a failure. And I really struggled in that sense, and Fatigue is falling into it. You're trying to, as I mentioned earlier, about having so many balls up in the air. And you think that's what life is about. And you're sleep deprived. And your communication, you're almost like two ships in the night, so to speak, with your— well, I know that's how I felt with my wife. And then in 2010, certain things started happening and there were certain fundamental life-changing events that shaped the next to where we are now. In 2010, my mum had been— my parents had been out here in the April, and then 6 weeks after they'd gone back to Scotland, my mum died quite suddenly at the age of 68. Now, she hadn't kept the best of health over the last sort of 20 years between heart disease and she'd early on dementia. So, you know, her quality of life wasn't fantastic, but it was your mother. And it was the first time I had endured a close family dying. I mean, grandparents had died, but it's your mother. It's, you know, it's in that real circle. So I remember flying back and again, we've got two young children. So I did the flight back to the UK. You cannot not go back to the family funeral. And I found it really emotionally challenging. And the culture of what Scotland is to compare to the culture here, it was that high up and down and rollercoasting. And I think I was back in Scotland for about 5 days, highly emotionally charged. I've got a few siblings. So we're all together and we're going, what just happened? And I'm there, you know, boom, 5 minutes more or less. So I wasn't coping with the loss and the grief. When I came back to Australia, I'm switching into father mode, work mode, and again, ignoring my feelings and ignoring that inner voice in me saying, maybe you should go and see someone. Maybe you should go and get some help. You know, and then that was 2010 and I got onto that treadmill of life that we spoke about and, you know, working away, Groundhog Day again. And then in 2011— sorry, go on.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 10:59
I was just going to ask, so you hadn't really processed the grief around the loss of your mother?
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 11:05
No, not at all. I didn't find the space because I kept putting things on top of that, if that makes sense.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 11:14
Yeah.
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 11:14
You know, I was only late 30s, early, I was about 40, I think. So I didn't have the tools and I also didn't have that, you know, you mentioned a great point, did I speak to my wife? We've got two young kids. You're exhausted. And sometimes your wife or your partner is not the right person to be subjective. I needed an extra frame of reference. Mm. So that happened in 2010, and, you know, I'm on that treadmill of life, and, you know, I had 2 sisters at the time in the UK and 2 brothers, so I thought. And in 2011, we found out that my parents had been married 43 years, but my father had a mistress for 35, and I actually have another brother in Scotland.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 12:00
How did you find that out?
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 12:02
We found out after several months of my mum's passing. My dad had a girlfriend. And we're thinking, oh yeah, this is a bit quick. And then there was a boy who kept coming to my father's house who resembled my younger brother. And people kept— the typical sort of suburbia neighborhoods— people saying, oh, is your younger brother back? Because my younger brother lives in the Channel Islands, which is quite a distance from Glasgow. Where I was brought up. People are going, no, it's not David, it's not David. So after some investigations, my sisters confronted my father and said, is Christopher a relative? And my father said, yes, he's my son. He's your half-brother. So when I found out, Evelyn, I think I went into pure Billy Connolly mode and used the F word an awful lot. And I think I found out at 6:30 in the morning, and by about 8 o'clock, I'd had about 5 coffees and I was ready for a lot more.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 13:10
What was the emotion that you were actually— like, what would take me through the roller coaster of emotions?
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 13:17
Shock. And also, did my mother know? And the protection of my mother. I was quite close to my mother, and the protection of my mother was something I'm going, did she know? And, you know, is it one of those things that is better just swept under the carpet? I will never know the answer to that. And the emotional roller coaster, and bearing in mind I'm hearing these things at different time zones, and my kids are 4 and 2 at the time. You've got the pressures of living, you've got the pressures of having a lifestyle, if that makes sense. And you're hearing this, and again, emotionally I'm going, what am I doing? And again, that— if you want to call it grief, in many ways shock. I did not get any help. I didn't reach out for any professional help because I thought I can deal with it. And I'll be really transparent here, one of the Areas where I would deal with it would be denial, hiding it, travel away so that I would think that it would be an escape. And I'll be really honest with my background, and it's quite normal for most humans to do it, alcohol became a band-aid. And that's a cheap band-aid, right? It doesn't solve anything, but it's in plentiful supply. So I would be traveling for work, drinking too much, then having that lifestyle of coming back to the family nest. So two parallel universes, if that makes sense. So that was in 2011. And I'm trying to deal with that and also trying bringing some joy into my life as well, going, I've got two beautiful kids. You know, I should be in a happy phase. And then in 2012, something else happened. And 2012 was a year of incredible feats. 2012, I remember sitting at the beginning of 2012 with goals I wanted to achieve. And I've been a long-distance runner for a long time. And I thought, I'm going to be 42 this year. I want to run a marathon. It's 42 kilometers. Makes great sense to me, right? And my wife at the time was supportive and we're sort of thinking, okay, which one we could make a holiday out of it. So becomes a bit of a goal for the family, which makes sense. However, in the April of that year, my younger sister who had been diagnosed with breast cancer 4 years prior actually lost her life at the age of 37 to a thing called inflammatory breast cancer. Breast cancer has got— like many cancers, they come in very different modes. Inflammatory breast cancer is cancer not of a duct, but it's actually in between the layers of skin. And when it's in your skin, your skin being your biggest organ, it can go anywhere. At the age of 37, way too young. And she passed away. She had an 11-year-old boy. Husband, etc. I remember flying back for her. She was in palliative care and I flew back and actually saw her pass. I got there 12 hours before she passed over. And it was incredibly beautiful, if that makes sense. And the irony is that she died 7 days before my mother's second anniversary. So that was 2012. That was April 2012. So when I came back to Australia, um, at that point I would say my relationship with my wife was— we were on parallel universes, if that makes sense. And there were a couple of other things happening, so our communication wasn't fantastic. We were two young kids and I'm bottling up a lot of this grief. I'm not coping with it, but I'm hiding it, if that makes sense.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 17:27
Mm-hmm.
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 17:29
So Denise was my sister. I came back after her funeral, and I'm just sort of trying to get myself— again, not asking for any help and not reaching out for help. And 6 weeks later, just thinking that everything was going okay-ish, if that makes sense, that you'll get through it, you know, every day is different. 6 weeks later, my father was on a wall, a 6-foot wall. So if you're not familiar with 6 foot, it's about 1.8 meters. He climbed up on a garden wall, a brick wall, and he climbed onto the wall to chop overhanging branches, and as he overstretched, he had a shirt, he was wearing a shirt, and he had a pair of garden secateurs in his top pockets, and he slipped off the wall, and as he slipped off the wall, the secateurs pierced him in the heart and he bled to death. So dealing with this, the death of my mother in 2012, I think in 2011, Denise dying in 2012, April, then dad dying of an accidental death. Again, my emotional body and my whole cellular body and every part of my framework is going, what am I doing? I felt as if somebody had a voodoo doll and just putting pins into it. So sleep was compromised. Again, I threw my energy into work because I was in denial of my emotions. I mentioned there that the communication with my wife and I wasn't fantastic. It was functional, but there was no love, if that makes sense. And 6 months after that, at the end of September 2012, we decided to separate. Now, I knew instinctively, as I mentioned, that my body was you generally have a feeling. Most people have a feeling that their body's not firing. But again, a lot of people are in denial, and I was one of them. And I found around September, October time, I had a little lump underneath my jaw, and I could push it in in the morning and then come out. And I shave most days, so you've seen how beautiful you are. Not like here when I've got, you know, something wrong with my eye, but you're looking going, gee, I get better looking every day. I can't wait to wake up tomorrow. And you're playing with this little ball, if that makes sense. And you think, God, what is it? So I decided to go to the dentist because I thought it's a dental problem. And like most people, I don't have the greatest love for dentists. So I went to the dentist and they actually said, Martin, you actually have the perfect mouth. So I actually got them to record that because it was a compliment I'd never heard before. But they said, we suggest and highly recommend that you go and see a GP, a general practitioner. There's something wrong with your body that it's not functioning properly. So that took me down a pathway of going to see a GP. And typical bloke, I hadn't seen a GP for many months, many years even. And that kicked off a whole array of tests. And in order to get an analysis of what's wrong, you go through that discovery phase. So, it's every test under the sun and from a physical and mental and emotional aspect. And so, I'm going through a separation, grief. So, your body keeps the score. Your body knows what's happening, but functional medicine doesn't actually see that, but they're going, "Okay, that's great." Now, I recall having a conversation with my ex-wife now going, I'm getting tested for every type of illness, including things like HIV and AIDS, because HIV and AIDS can remain dormant in your blood for up to 30 years. So your marriage is collapsing, you're talking about blood disorders, my whole body is all over the place. And to kind of— and that also opened up a new language of PET scans, CT scans, MRI, I thought I was going to the vet or something, you know, I had to Google what these things— and the bit when it really hit going, I'm really unwell, was when they said to me, you have to go and see a surgeon, we're going to do a biopsy on you. And that's when I got really scared. And that's when I knew there was something— I was going to say more serious than what I had originally thought of. When they did the biopsy, my body froze and I thought, I'm in the poop. I don't know what's happening here. And I actually had an adverse reaction to a normal biopsy. For those listeners and those watching, a biopsy, it's generally day surgery. You're in for a couple of hours and then you're out. They kept me in overnight because I had this reaction. To coming out of being under, so to speak. And lo and behold, this surgeon said to me, look, we'll give you the details on the Monday. Go home, rest, don't do anything too strenuous. So by this stage, I was actually staying with some mates and I was really scared. I knew there was something wrong, but you don't know the facts. And I went home. Restless couple of days. And then on the Monday, the surgeon called me and said, are you sitting down? I need you to write down what I'm about to say to you. And he said, right, we believe you have a thing called follicular lymphoma, which is a form of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, which is a blood cancer. We believe you're at stage 2. And I wrote all the things down that he said. And he said, look, you're going to see a hematologist. And I'd never heard of a hematologist before. Said, you're seeing them on Wednesday, here's the appointment, etc., etc., and give me directions. And he said, look, you're going to be okay. And as soon as he put the phone down, I just put my phone down and I burst into tears. And again, I probably used a lot of language that I don't really want to express here, but you can just imagine what they were like. And I was really scared. On a Wednesday, I went to see the hematologist and I'm sitting and I actually had to persuade my ex-wife to come along with me because I said, I need some support. But she's gone through the trauma of breakdown of marriage, being a primary carer of two kids, etc. And she was going, it's your problem, you deal with it. So I remember when I walked into the consultant's room and he said, Martin, we've made a mistake. Oh, this is great. It's not stage 2 cancer, it's stage 4 cancer. And for those who don't know, stage— there is no stage 5. Stage 4 cancer meant that— so a blood cancer is cancer of your lymphatic system. I had tumors the size of golf balls in my neck, both upper and lower, under my armpit, in my groin, around my kidneys, and every white blood cell. Was producing cancer cells. And thanks to medication and advancements in technology and medication, I'm still alive now. But he said, you're going straight into chemotherapy, but before you do that, you're going to see a counselor tomorrow. Because I just cried. And that's when I knew I was emotionally broken. My body was about to go into another phase of what the hell is going to happen. And I was petrified. And knowing that my sister had died and she was diagnosed with stage 3 cancer, yes, it's a different cancer, but here's me, stage 4. And it brought back all the things about Denise's journey and all that stuff. So I was, I was preparing to die.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 25:20
Who did you tell at that point?
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 25:23
So I called my sister. I've got an older sister who's a year older than me. I called my sister and said, look, you better sit down. This is what's happened. So all my family in the UK were, you know, again, similar to me around what happened to Denise, my sister, and my dad going, bloody hell. They weren't aware about my marriage breaking up or my journey, what I was about to go through. So they were petrified for me, and they're at the other side of the world. They couldn't even see me, if that makes sense. And I was about to embrace in the biggest fight I have had in my life. And I was absolutely petrified. And I did some really stupid things, I have to say. I embraced chemotherapy and on my very first day of getting chemotherapy, which took, I think it was either 10 or 11 hours, I got it injected into my arm and I always took it in my, I took it in my left arm because I'm right-handed and I thought I need to get my right hand dominant. So that was the day of chemotherapy and when, unknown to me, they give you chemotherapy and then you give you a whackload of drugs I felt, and especially with my accent, I actually felt as if I was an extra from that famous Trainspotting movie, choosing drugs as a way of life. There were some great things. And over the next 5 days, I had to take about 30 different drugs every day. And on the third day, I had to inject myself as well to boost my immune system. My immune system became compromised completely. I'd know those again, might not be medical. I had no T-cells, so I had no immune system. I was neutropenic, therefore, I was susceptible to a lot of disease. Again, I didn't know that at the time. And I made a stupid error. I decided on day 3, I thought, I feel great. And at this point in time, the truth of Lance Armstrong hadn't come out. So I started reading all his stuff and watching stuff on YouTube, et cetera. So I decided to go for a 5K run 3 days after chemotherapy. And Mr. Stupid appeared 2 days later and did exactly the same. My body collapsed and I ended up in hospital for 3 days. And I kind of look back on laughter, if that makes sense, right? Thinking, you're an idiot, or words to that effect. But again, I didn't have, I didn't have a primary carer to look after me to say, don't be an idiot. And it's not about tough love. It's sometimes you need a carer if you're going through major life changes, if that makes sense. And I didn't have that. And although we go and see psychologists, etc., again, there's that fight or flight that's coming in. I'm not sleeping. Or I'm sleeping and waking up at 3 in the morning. And, you know, one of the skills that I had from my mother, I was one of 5 kids and she would even iron our underwear. So I'm ironing underwear at 5 in the morning because I'm bored. So if your readers want, you know, their underwear ironed at 3 in the morning, I was your man at that time. And again, I was such shock. I had so many things going on. Trying to save my marriage, trying to work in corporate, and trying to stay alive. So which battle do you do first? Sorry for the interruption. This is Ian Westmoreland, the founder of Kintsugi Heroes, and thank you for listening to this story from one of our amazing heroes. Our mission is for these stories to provide hope and inspiration to people experiencing life challenges and to all and also educate the broader community on how best to provide support. If you would like to help us to continue to produce more hero stories and cover more adversity themes, we would welcome all donations. These can be made via our website kitsukiheroes.com.au. The donate function is at the bottom of the home page. We'd also welcome any feedback. You can email me direct using at kintsugiheroes.com.au. Now let's get back to the story. And it was the words of the psychologist actually said to me, the cancer psychologist, when I walked in, and she said, Martin, welcome to a new beginning. And those have resonated with me since then, that without that help I would not be here. But it took something as strong as cancer to make me stop. And over the years, I've embraced getting professional help when— even when I'm feeling good. To know what it's like to feel good is also a really good emotion. So fast forward now, you know, 10 years later, I've now completely— there I use the famous word of the last few years— I've pivoted like a lot of people have, said goodbye to my corporate world. I've set up my wellbeing company, consulting company, in order to focus on educating people on their most important asset in life, and that's their health. Nothing else matters apart from your health. So I've retrained, and over the last few years I was actually a board member of Australasian College of Nutritional Environmental Medicine, which actually helps teach medical practitioners nutritional medicine, which I've got some qualifications in. And I'm thriving in that space, being a bloke focusing not just on men's health but also health of wellbeing. Just be healthy. Nothing, again, nothing else matters. And if you're not living a fruitful and thriving life, what's your purpose? So that's some of my story, Avelina. I've just, you know, your facial expressions where I knew I was going to do this to you. And, you know, I think you're making me cry actually without any words.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 31:52
It's pretty powerful stuff when life gives you, you know, a triple Mack truck, you know, in a year, right?
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 32:02
Oh, it's, it's a cracker. And one thing, and I think you might get this actually, and hopefully I've given a frame of reference, my relationship with cancer, I'm actually thankful of cancer because I was on the wrong pathway. Mm. But it took me a while to actually— and to engage with getting some help to acknowledge that.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 32:28
So here's a question, Martin. At the point where you've started your chemotherapy journey and the healing of cancer, what was your internal belief about your life? Were you fearful at this point? Were you thinking about what your mum and your sister had been through and everything else? And then there's the breakdown of your marriage, you know, where was your state of mind at that point?
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 32:55
So that's a great question. I fell into the victim space quite a lot and felt the world was on my shoulders. And one of the things that helped me getting through that was I went to one of the psychologists I went to see. I remember actually at one point seeing a psychologist about separating families, seeing one on cancer and seeing one for myself. And I was exhausted. I'm going, I've just had chemotherapy. I can't think straight. I had chemo brain. You know, I had to write. I had a notepad and piece of paper and writing down all my thoughts on a daily basis. But it was one psychologist that helped me change my mindset a little bit. And I went to see him in an area here in Sydney near the beach. And I was kind of, it was a beautiful day. And I always, if you go to the beach, you've always got swimming gear or whatever with you. And it was what he said to me. It was really profound. And he said, listen, do me a favor, but more importantly, do yourself a favor. Get out of my office, get your running shoes on, go for a run, and get into the ocean and start living your life. But he also, before we went to that space, again, a tool that I learned from him, he asked me to write my obituary. And that was really confronting. Said, where's your purpose in life? Write your— and I found that got me out of the victim space, if that makes sense. And it was a really powerful tool, um, to actually go, live your life. This is just a crossing that you have to cross into another space, but live your life. You're here for a reason.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 34:49
So you didn't believe at that point you were going to die?
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 34:52
No, I— there were one or two times when I thought And I didn't get into the phase of depression, but I was forming a high anxiety level, if that makes sense. And the biggest fear I had actually was the impact of the drugs that were having for me. I hated chemotherapy with a passion, and I tried to make some humor out of it because I think humor is a great equalizer. It can also, um, if used incorrectly, can muffle some of your emotions. So I would go to the cancer ward and I would tell them, oh, I need to get a left-handed cannula because I get my chemotherapy in left hand. So the young nurses would be walking around looking for left-handed cannulas. And one of the drugs that I had, um, called vincristine, was a red color. So it gets injected into you. So when you go to the bathroom, you pass it through. So I thought parts of my body were breaking up. When it was going in me and obviously coming out. And that was a big fear for me, if that makes sense. Um, but then I also— one of the key things that— another key pillar, if that makes sense, was I went back to my first love, if that— if you know what I mean. So my first love has always been nutrition, and I studied nutrition as part of my Patel Catering degree back in the late '80s, early '90s. And that's how I got involved with the medical team as well, the medical college. I studied there as well about the power of nutrition and that famous phrase, let food be thy medicine, let medicine be thy food. And I made some errors, don't get me wrong. I had a thing called peripheral neuropathy, which is no feeling in your fingers, like pins and needles in your fingers. And that's actually caused by a lack of B12. One of many of the chemotherapy drugs actually caused that. So if you're not eating properly, you're actually not combating the drugs. So I couldn't hold a knife to chop things. So in typical kind of Scottish fashion, I went out and bought blenders and juicers and all that stuff and protein powders. And you're making these juices up and they were pretty expensive and they tasted like crap, but I was too proud to let them go. So I would be drinking them and eating them. They were horrible. And I realized also that the power of real foods, not processed food, and the impact that sugar has on your well-being is so, so important. So I've really gone down the phase where your gut health impacts your mental health and your mindset. And I'm really grateful for the assistance that I've had from psychologists, from nurses, from medical practitioners. They all play a part of your village of well-being.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 37:42
Hmm. Very true.
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 37:45
How—
Aveline Clark (Host) · 37:45
at what point along your healing journey, from the point of being diagnosed with the cancer, would you say you felt that your life had pivoted? How long did it take you to get to that point where you were on a different path and in control and feeling So again, that's a great question.
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 38:05
I was used to the corporate environment. So, you know, that corporate bandwidth, you go to university, you get qualified, you get degrees, you go. And after chemotherapy, I thought I could easily switch back into that. And then I went for a job. I changed jobs, changed companies, changed culture, and it didn't work for me. And I repeated those processes for about 7 or 8 years. I would only last about 18 months in a job because I wasn't invested in that, if that makes sense. And I knew there was something else. The one thing I am grateful, however, is that in those organizations, I veered hugely towards the wellbeing committees that were involved in the organizations. And I learned a lot, but I also gave a lot as well. I gave a lot of insights. And again, mentioning earlier about men's well-being. We didn't talk about men's well-being. And I've been pretty open here around the masks of alcohol, that you can be a functional alcoholic and hide it really well. And again, that's gender neutral as well, right? But men seem to do that a lot.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 39:13
Mm.
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 39:14
So I started going, well, wait a minute, if I want to look after myself, I'm responsible for my own health, but I'm also responsible for actively being curious and asking, but also receiving help. And one of the things that I— again, another tool that helped me throughout all of this, and it's still to this day, I do lots of yoga. And I remember going to yoga when I was going through chemotherapy, and I had no eyebrows, no hair, no body hair. I couldn't see my left or right, and all I could do was laugh. So I'm in a certain pose, and for those who are unfamiliar with yoga, I'm in a child pose. You're just lying on your mat, and I'm like a bunny on steroids. I just keep laughing. But the engagement of being in a community really helped me as well, because again, emotionally, I kind of became too insulated. And I lost a lot of confidence in myself, but going to yoga helped break that out of me. And when you're going through major trauma, you know, regardless of what it is, and I can speak, I think, vehemently around cancer, it does, it goes straight into your psyche on so many levels. And there are some great people who do some terrific work there. But I also think that they're too functional in the thinking. I think it's got to change. It's been the same protocol for 30, 40 years. And it has to change. Cancer, the more I'm finding out, cancer is metabolic syndrome on steroids. And a lot of that is, believe it or not, your food and lifestyle. Will help you get cancer, it will also help you cure yourself of cancer. Hmm. But there's no— I was going to say there's no money in that, if that makes sense, compared to the, um, the profits of Big Pharma and drug companies.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 41:20
Absolutely. Would you say that your background in nutrition and health was a savior, so to speak?
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 41:33
Yeah, um, because it's something that you do every day and it's also something you can have fun with. And it also opened me up about the community of food, if that makes sense, and the community of nutrition. And a key thing that I, I recall— so I worked in kitchens, for example, in London and in Europe— the freshness of foods the seasonality of foods. And over our generation, I think we've lost that in our kids. That's, that's a foreign language to them. That is really powerful. It's also really powerful knowing which foods are actually right for your body, whether it be your body type, your blood type. There's a lot more to it than just saying that medical phrase of an apple a day keeps the doctor away. That's marketing.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 42:28
Tell me, uh, I'm really interested. There's a couple of questions here around your family. First one is around the half-brother that you discovered, um, during that year. Have you built or established any kind of relationship with him? Is he, is he part of you and your siblings' life?
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 42:47
So one of my brothers has kept contact with him. My younger brother, no. My sister, no. And it's funny you say that because I'm actually planning to go back to the UK early next year. And one of the objectives I have is actually to meet him.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 43:03
How good.
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 43:03
But I'll be honest with you, I was angry at first when I knew about it. But it wasn't his fault, if that makes sense. And there's nobody's fault. But you're in disbelief and you're on that emotional roller coaster. And not having someone that you could, you can share that with was, was extremely difficult. And look, I think his name's Christopher. I think he must be early 40s. I'm sure he's got some kids of his own, etc. Well, they're half my kid. Well, not half my kids, if you know what I mean, but my family.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 43:38
Yeah.
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 43:39
And one thing that I would say, actually, and again, it comes down to that kind of '70s mentality as well. One thing I'm thankful of my father, which I think societal judgment was at that time and even today, if men and women have affairs, it's very easy just to have an abortion. And I was brought up Catholic and they didn't have— they didn't— obviously it's not part of the belief system. And I'm grateful for that. So really, from that point of view, I would like to meet him, give him a hug. Find out who he is. He's part of my life now. He's part of my kids' life as well. Don't ignore it. But for the first couple of years, I denied it, if that makes sense, because it was too much.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 44:26
Certainly with everything else that was going on. Oh, and the death of your mother and, and then your sister. Yeah. Um, how has your relationship with your siblings gone since your cancer diagnosis? How you process together.
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 44:42
And so it's— so one of the things that I did to keep them all the fact from the emotion, if that makes sense, when I was getting chemotherapy, I used to write emails to them all, just a generic email. Hi, this is phase 2 of chemo, chemo, what? And a bit of humor. But I also put down— I actually found them recently. There's a lot of fear in it, right? And, you know, I'm feeling okay, you know, etc., etc. And now what one of my brothers, my older brother, every time he hears that I've gone to hospital, he's always fearful that cancer has come back because again, he doesn't know that much about it, if that makes sense, or he doesn't, he doesn't want to know about it. And it's no disrespect to himself. It's not in his space. One big blessing around having a cancer journey and again, having a team of people, I get checked up every 3 months. So I've had to work that relationship as well, Evelyn, with the anxiety of going back every 3 months. And that took a couple of years to, to change that from a fear to a fearless mentality. Every time we go there thinking it's going to come back. So I would be counting down the weeks to going, I'm seeing my hematologist, seeing my hematologist. Now I see him and he started going, what are you doing with yourself? You should have relapsed at least twice by now. You were that ill. So we have this love hate. I, you know, he tries to tell me about my nutrition plan and I'll say, I'll start telling you about blood disorder. So let's agree to disagree here. And he's got a, you know, non-empathetic medical bent. You know, I'm just under 6 foot, I'm 73 kilos, so I'm pretty well built. And I went to see him recently and he said, what are you doing, Martin? You're looking great. You're not the Oompa Loompa that used to come in here a few years ago. I'm like, what happened to your manners? You get lost. So again, one of the key things, again, a big call I would say actually is when you find a good medic, it's about the two-way relationship. They can learn from you. They're only human, first of all, and ask them how the hell they are is really important. But he's a part of my team. I've got a team of, I call it a team of angels around me, and no one is right, but no one is wrong. But I've got a good team. I've also dropped some people over the years of that team because they've served the purpose, going on to another, another area. And that's really important.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 47:31
Absolutely. So you're in control of who's in your circle, who's influencing you, who's giving you the advice that you know intuitively is right or wrong for you. So, you know, making those judgment calls and protecting that space.
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 47:45
Yeah. And I think it's, you know, I talk about, you know, I mentioned it about yoga. One of the things that took me a while to get into, and it's not something I do every day, but the power of meditation is so, so important. And again, if I look back on my life pre-cancer, if that makes sense, you're always rushing. And I mentioned about escapism and denial, etc. When you meditate and you do that inner work, and I know that you've done it, when you do that inner work, you become really powerful because you become your superpower.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 48:19
Mm.
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 48:21
And you become the stronger person. And occasionally you might need a little bit of medication or a little bit of direction, and that's good. But you have to— you become open-minded about that. So I'm in an open-minded space now. And thankfully, I, you know, I think I'm a role model, if that makes sense. And it's not blowing smoke up my backside, but it's a role model of don't allow cancer to dominate who you are.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 48:56
It's interesting you said that, Martin, because one of the questions, the final questions I have is around the perception that others have of you after seeing you go through this journey. What's been that perception of friends, your ex-wife, your children? How do they perceive you?
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 49:12
So that's a great question. My kids were really young and I don't think they fully understand it. They're 15 and 13 now. So I think once they understand it, and I actually wrote about it in a chapter that was published last year in the book that I was co-authored. I wrote my feelings and emotions and some of the rollercoaster that we've discussed today. When they're ready, I'll let them hear my side of it. Um, unfortunately, I don't have a good relationship. I don't have a relationship with my ex-wife, which is disappointing. Um, and one thing that I didn't, you know, we didn't mention, and I'll be open about it, while I was going through chemotherapy, it also kicked off 3 years of family court. That's a whole hour and a half of conversation, right? And that's, that's one area where it's still to, to this day, I know what my perception is. And that's an area where I think a lot of— there's a whole hornet's nest there.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 50:15
There is. I understand.
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 50:17
My kids— and when I was diagnosed with the cancer, actually, just to put a frame of reference as well, when I was diagnosed with blood cancer, my ex-wife said, Martin, it's only a blood cancer, it's not a real cancer, you'll be fine. So when you said about support and about, um, love and about where it is now, um, I know that I've done a lot of work on myself. I also know that I'm embracing making mistakes every single day and loving it. And when my kids were really little, I would be taking them to school and I would say to them, girls, I'm going to make at least 3 mistakes today, but I'm going to learn 5 things. So that's just functional thinking. And you'll remember when your kids would go Oh, you're stupid, right? If you're not learning more every single day, you're not growing. But you also have to let go of things. And that's where I think things like meditation and the power of yoga and what you're doing here on this platform, allowing a voice to actually get that community to talk about their emotions and break down some of the preconceptions that we have. Again, I mentioned about gender neutral, but a hell of a lot of guys don't discuss their emotions from the heart.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 51:29
Yeah, that's right. Thank you for saying that. What's been the silver lining for you, if there has been a silver lining or a gold nugget over the last, I don't know how many years?
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 51:43
That's a terrific question. I think it was something that a mate of mine said to me the other week. He said, Martin, I don't know if you're a genius or you're bonkers. Right, with the fact that I'm such an advocate about healthy thriving. And I'm also an advocate that seeking help— but there's one thing to seek for help, but there's a different emotion to receive help. So you've got to work on both of them, and that takes a little bit of time. I mean, I'm dealing with someone just now who is in denial, and you can see the car crash about to happen, right? I think the other thing is I know I can go to bed at nighttime feeling satisfied with whom I am. I found my purpose. I've found who I am, and that is giving me the strength. You know, when things go wrong or you, you can bring fears and all that kind of stuff, they don't mean anything. And I don't want that to end. I also, I, I want to always have that rudimentary ABC, always being curious. And that's what makes my heart dance, so to speak. And if you're not being able to do that, again, you're not being able to live.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 52:57
Yeah. That's just so powerful and a beautifully poetic way to sort of come to the end of the conversation. I've got a final question for you.
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 53:07
Sure.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 53:09
If there's someone listening to this now who's who's going through anything that you've been through that you've talked about? Is there anything you'd like to say to them that might make them feel a bit better?
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 53:19
Yeah, you're not alone. There's incredible help out there, and it's okay to cry. It's okay. It's encouraged to show your emotions. Don't bottle it up. Be vulnerable. If you're in a relationship cry to your partner, get them to hold your hand, and talk from, dare I say, your childlike instincts. And don't, don't allow fear to talk up, to judge your emotions.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 53:59
They're really powerful words, and I hope that those listening can really process those and take them in and try and embody them because they're really beautiful and fabulous words to own and operate by.
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 54:14
One of the things that, and I know we're going to have a different podcast on a different platform, but one of the things when I speak in public, a little tool that again is a little gift that people can do on a daily basis and they can do it anytime. Take your right hand. Sorry, that's my left. Take your right hand. And I want you to do this actually with me. Take your right hand, put it over your heart. There are 4 chambers in your heart, 2 upper, 2 lower. And every single day, reframe your thinking and embrace them as love, light, laughter, and connection. And you can give yourself a heart hug at any time of the day, and it makes you feel fantastic.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 54:56
Wow, I've never heard of that before. That's just beautiful. What a warm and loving way to finish this up. Martin, thank you so much for sharing your story. Absolutely. Back through the, the cobwebs, the pain, and for all of it. I'm really grateful. It was just beautiful.
Martin Gillespie (Guest) · 55:15
I really enjoyed your time. Thank you.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 55:18
Thank you so much. I look forward to speaking with you again. Take care. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Kintsugi Heroes. Please like and share the show to your friends so we can get this out to even more people. If you have a story you'd like to share with us, please reach out using the contact details below. Join us next week for our next hero story. Until then, keep being you, and remember that we are all heroes in our own unique way.
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