Abdi Aden · 47 min
A 13-year-old who fled Somalia's civil war alone, one of only five survivors from 318, rebuilt his life in Australia and now teaches others to turn difference into strength.
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At 13, Abdi Aden was playing soccer in Mogadishu when a missile hit his friend's house. That moment fractured his world. Over the next four months, he walked across Africa with a stranger's family, survived a firing squad at point-blank range, carried a starving woman's youngest child across the Kenyan border, and watched her die from starvation before they made it. Out of 318 people who started that journey, only five survived. He returned to his destroyed city, disguised his tribe identity to move through checkpoints without being killed, and stowed away in a cargo hold to escape on a plane to Romania.
At 14, Abdi landed in Melbourne with no family, no money, and almost no English. A man left him on a street corner in Brunswick on a Sunday morning. He went to a community centre that night. Within months he was asking the right questions, getting hours at a youth centre, and eventually working full-time. He learned that when you have nothing left to lose, shame loses its power. He stopped pretending to be someone else and started showing up as himself, speaking his language, looking different, and letting that difference be the thing that set him apart.
Now Abdi works as a youth worker, public speaker, and author. He discovered that young people are drawn to people who don't judge them, who listen to what they say, and who never mention the things they're already conscious about. His programs attract far more young people than others because he treats them like friends. He teaches people that being different is not a barrier to success in Australia, it's the best way forward. For anyone who feels they don't fit in, Abdi has a single message: that's where your power lives.
“I didn't think the day I'll turn 15. I don't think it will ever come, but I'll just keep going.”
“You can unlock or you can disarm the truth of racism.”
“Young people want to hear positive. They don't want to be negative because negative is their life every day.”
The hero, today
Abdi learned to take risks as a child to survive, and later used that same willingness to take calculated risks when applying for jobs, doing public speaking, and writing a book, because he realised what he had to lose was already gone. When working with young people, the key is not to mention what they are conscious about; instead, treat them like a friend and show genuine interest in what makes them unique, because young people are drawn to people who don't judge them. People will think what they think of you regardless of whether you wear a mask or not, so it is easier to be successful by being yourself, speaking another language, looking different, and letting those differences be the thing that sets you apart. Abdi changed how he saw himself publicly over time, not overnight: he was embarrassed by his first media appearance for twenty years before going back to watch it, and he gradually exposes himself to embarrassing moments in small ways until the shame loses its power. Having nothing to lose means you can ask for what you need without shame, because shame is what keeps people silent about hard things, and silence about hard things is what keeps the silence going. Australia felt like home to Abdi because he worked out how to make a life there, but people often remind him he comes from somewhere else; the difference is that he gets up every morning doing what he's meant to do.
Yes. Abdi Aden is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Abdi learned to take risks as a child to survive, and later used that same willingness to take calculated risks when applying for jobs, doing public speaking, and writing a book, because he realised what he had to lose was already gone.
When working with young people, the key is not to mention what they are conscious about; instead, treat them like a friend and show genuine interest in what makes them unique, because young people are drawn to people who don't judge them.
People will think what they think of you regardless of whether you wear a mask or not, so it is easier to be successful by being yourself, speaking another language, looking different, and letting those differences be the thing that sets you apart.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 00:16
Hello and welcome to From There to Here, the podcast where we get real about what it takes to build a new life far from home. I'm your host, Emma Bellamy, and today my guest is Abdi Aden. Abdi's story, I'm not gonna lie, is wild. When he was 13 years old, he had to run from the civil war in Somalia. He spent about 4 months crossing Africa, dodging death squads, and facing things no kid should ever see. Out of the 318 people who started that journey with him, only 5 made it. But his story doesn't end here. After some time in a refugee camp in Romania, he landed in Australia with no family, no money, and close to no English. Now he's a youth worker, an author, and an inspirational speaker. In this episode, we are going to talk about how he made it from there to here and what he has learned along the way. Let's get into it. Here is Abdi Aden. Abdi Aden, welcome to the podcast From There to Here. It's really a pleasure to have you as a guest today.
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 01:39
Thank you for inviting me, Emma. I'm really looking forward to it.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 01:43
So Abdi, you are an author and public speaker. You've dedicated your life to sharing your story and what you've learned from it with others. What is it that drives you to do what you do? And what impact do you seek to create?
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 02:00
Well, that's a good question. Uh, one of the things that drives me to do this is in my situation today, like coming from Somalia, coming from war-torn country, I'm not come from the Western world. So when I came to Australia, we lost everything, our culture, the smell of the food. I lost over 50 cousins in the war. Often when you lose the country that you've been bred up you lose your sense of yourself. You are not the person you were. You lose your confidence and you become really nothing. Also, sometimes you put yourself down as immigrant. You think you actually got nothing to offer. So I really did not wanna be that person. So I wanted to be Australian. I wanted to be Somali. I wanted to be Abdi. I make myself like, what can I do as a person before I die, what can I get out of my body? What I get out of my character? How can you change things you've been taught as a kid? And that's what made me to become a motivational speaker because I become something impossible. People told me, well, you are African and you don't speak English very well. I'm just saying whatever in your head, it's always in your head. So I actually turned around and I'm not pretending anymore to be not myself. So that's where I am now.
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Abdi changed how he saw himself publicly over time, not overnight: he was embarrassed by his first media appearance for twenty years before going back to watch it, and he gradually exposes himself to embarrassing moments in small ways until the shame loses its power.
This conversation includes a happy kid before the missile, walking four months across africa, surviving the shooting and finding the group, the woman who didn't make it, from refugee camp to mogadishu and onto a plane and egypt airport and the two boys from kenya.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 03:20
For the audience that doesn't know your story, can you give us an overview of your story as a refugee? I know that you were only 13 when the Somalian civil war started. Can you bring us back to this moment of your life?
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 03:36
Well, when the war started, I was very happy. I was a happy kid. I had a mom and dad. I had a young sister, which is very unusual to have one sister, Somalia. Often we have, you know, big family and that's the way, but my mom and dad thought they were modern. Two kids is enough. And so that tells you how strong my family was to decide that. That's why I become stubborn. I wanna do what I want in life. I'm not gonna change. So yeah, very happy. I went to good primary school. I was going middle school. I wanted to be a teacher. I wanted to be a pilot. I wanted to be a soccer player. And then one day my mother decided to go to Italy for 2 weeks. She was translator and 90% women don't work in Somalia. Well, they work is children's and house. They don't get paid work. So my mom was a modern woman and she was a feminist in, we didn't know the word feminist, but she used to advocate women on the side. And then one day, mom's away, as I said, and dad was working the other side of Mogadishu. We lived in Mogadishu and then I did my normal routine. I went to school, come home, and I had a friend next door and I said, let's go play soccer. And he says to me, oh, Abdi, I'll catch up, you go. And it was very unusual, but it's normal if one time his mother told him not to go. So I start playing the soccer, 15, 20 minutes at the time, I have massive explosion. So that's how the civil war started. They throw a missile and it hits my friend's house that I just left. That's the first bomb. And I didn't know what it was and I was in shock. You know, Somalia was very stable, very wealthy country before the war. So massive explosion. I run back to our house and the street, everyone's running on crazy, like what's happening? And I've never seen that before. So I'm young at that age looking for families. I can't see my auntie. My father was working the other side, hasn't finished work. And then this woman says to me, are you Haliba's son? I said, yeah. And she grabs me. She had 5 children. And then we went from Mogadishu, 5 children between 2.5 and 10, and I was 13. So we went from Mogadishu to Kenya. We walked 4 months, a distance between here to New South Wales, Sydney. So first year, Somalia lost 1 million people to the war, whether they drowned or whether they get killed. So as we were walking, first month, always good because people wanna help each other. Somali being wealthy, giving you a porridge, a milk. The second month, people divided, fighting each other and then asking you what tribe you are. They got guns, the soldiers, the president's tribe, and people divided tribally. And then chaos. What tribe you are? The first time they catch me, And they said, what tribe you are? And I told the tribe the guy was, try, look like, it's very hard to tell, but you just go with the Brazilians tribe in case they are. And the third time they capture me, group of us, they kidnapped us out of the group. And I'm the youngest. They captured 8 men and then those 8 men and myself, they took us further away from the group. As we were walking, they drive 4-wheel drives with a gun machine on top. As we walked, uh, I'm thinking to myself, this is it. They're gonna kill us, you know, and that's it. As a kid, I'm confused and I keep looking if I can run back to my group cuz I always have this plan. What's next? Even I do it today, you know, what do I do next so I can avoid thinking that bad things can happen? So keep walking, get to the destination. They tied our hands back and face down and Everyone was crying, oh, don't do this to me. Or everyone is different of reaction, you know, you and your sister or brother will deal with the scare or trauma differently. So I was very quiet. I just couldn't talk. I didn't know what was going on. And that's it. And then the first truck opened fire, not out. The second, third one, the, the power of smell of it's unimaginable. And I kept myself quiet, didn't move. Stop breathing. If I describe it, if I can only, is massive headache. You feel nausea, you wanna throw up, you scared, your eyes, if you shut it, it's hard to open it. If you open, you can't shut it. Your heart's going like, you know, you are in a state of situation and you have to manage being quiet. You're only human. You can only do what you can do. And when you're desperate, you do things. Often people say to me, oh, I couldn't do it. Yes, you can. You know, you do what you can, you know. Anyway, I got up lucky, nothing much happened to me. I was the third person in the row and I feel this warm thing in my side after the trucks leave. I got up, I have little injuries, not major. And then I'd run back to where we were walking and there was this old man we walked past. He was cooking outside and then he gave me some water and he said, you're very lucky. The bullets through to your legs and went to the other way. And he gave me everything and then And he told me what the group was. And longest days I didn't eat food was 9 days. And then when joined the group, the hardest thing is to tell them that I survived, but the other guys didn't, cuz there's their relatives. It's really, it's scary to tell people that cuz when you're in a situation like that, when somebody's dying or death is a different type of politics, people don't like you and no reason. So 2 days before the Kenyan border, what happened was she said to me, she had 5 children. She said to me, I did take my youngest son across the border. Her other 4 children died from starvation. She died. She didn't make it. You know, I'm thinking to myself, I can't even leave this woman. She looked after me the first month, second month. No, I don't wanna leave her. She's losing her every child every 3, 4 weeks. And then I took the little boy. I didn't think I'll survive. I didn't think the day I'll turn 15. I don't think it will ever come, but I'll just keep going. You just keep going and cross the border and there's a little orphanage. I left the kid 2 and a half years old and then the refugee camp. I've never been a refugee camp cuz I come from a privileged, good home and never been a refugee. So we were the first group there. So 318, we crossed the border, 5 of us. Myself, the little boy, and another 3 random people. So the refugee camp, I've never seen anything like it. No toilet, no electricity. People sleep on the floor. You watch on United Nations trucks will throw waters if you are lucky. And the guests who get the water, people have been there 20 years earlier because they belong. The human nature is always, oh, I belong here. Even if it's not real, like you come from another country,, but you think you are here before me, so you push it. And I've seen that and I'm bigger than that now because I've seen it. People do it. So it doesn't surprise me with people that I talk to, you know, but left back to Mogadishu. So I asked these two guys to go back to Mogadishu. They were older. They've never been in Somalia, but they originally from Somalia. Their parents were born in Kenya. So I say to them, come with me. I know how to get back to Mogadishu and I have no idea, but I'll just survival because I know what happens to me mentally and physically. So I need 2 people to look after me, but I told them, let's go. Bravery is not good thing to do. You know, we've been in trouble for months and now we have to go back and, and then we end up going to the wrong areas because I didn't wanna take them the way we came, the normal road, because they're soldiers. So I don't wanna be captured. I mean, how many times can you survive, you know? And that's how I go back to Mogadishu and fly from there to Romania.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 11:44
And so when you came back, were you able to get any news from your family?
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 11:49
When I get to my house, the Somalia country destroyed, the bullets, the houses. I mean, war zone. You've seen the latest war zones I can describe to you is in places like Syria or Palestine. When I left in his beautiful house. So when I came back, it was that and another tribe, uh, controlling, not the one controlled before the president is gone. Another one tribe is not my tribe either. So you, when you go to the market or the streets looking for family, you have to tell them you are their tribe. Do you know how much energy that has? And you're scared if you don't say that they will kill you because you're in the wrong area. So I had to survive that to tell everyone I'm their tribe. I have to memorize it. I have to do this. And sometimes you don't want people know you because they will say, oh, he's not our tribe. But you avoid those people you knew, but you try to find other tribes that, you know, you can accompany. So it was a kind of a trick, like which way can I survive to tell people? So there's one plane landed, the one plane once a week and they collect money and all the rich people who that tribe who lives in Mogadishu only goes. You have no chance that if you are no mom and dad, I have no one. I'm wearing the same shirt that I was 9 months earlier that I went to the soccer. My shoes is suit sizes and I'm wearing the same pants with my shorts under. So every time I see a water, I just wash it, but that's it. So this plane landed, I'm thinking I can't really leave in Mogadishu, no family. And I can see that plane. How do I get into that plane? You can't go through the airport cuz they got guns and you don't have money, you don't have anyone. So I went to the back of the plane, at the back of the airport, there's a little gate, went through the gate. I always say to myself, lucky I don't have a big head. I went through the gate, the gate, I pushed, I was desperate. I went through the sideway. The plane had a cargo area open, went to the cargo area. I'm taking a risk. The risk is always you being killed. That's what the risk is. There's no other way, no negotiation. If you're in the wrong place, get to the open cargo, you know where the cargo goes. Went to there. I tapped the side, make sure they don't see me. They shut the thing, the gate. The plane goes to the runway and when the plane goes, people throw a missile and the plane will do like this, like this. And I'm in the back, there's nothing. 'Cause I was hoping if there was something I can hold on, if there's a big cargo of stuff, you could just hold it, but nothing. So, and I thought, oh, this is it. So every time I'm in a bad situation, I'll say, this is my time, you know, in my head. The plane levels up, I stand up. You hungry, you got a massive headache, you thirsty, you don't mention it. You just wait till your body shuts down. That's what I was waiting. Just my body shuts down and that's, I'm not exist anymore. You know, I don't know, I've never died before, so I don't know. But you know, and the plane goes to the runway. Once it goes to the runway. I come up the stairs and then the door opens. I come through and put my head up. Just lucky has to be next to the hostess. She got scared and said, who are you and where are you from? Something like that. And she said to me, quickly sit there. That's the seatbelt. She gave me some food. She said to me, oh, are you Jamila's brother? And I said, yeah. They said, don't tell the pilot because That's what it is. Don't tell the pilot that. She shouldn't just sit there. She gave me food and, and then everyone comes down the plane, no documentation. When I came back to Mogadishu, I didn't tell you, they actually told me your family didn't survive, so move on. And then there was a little drawer they were putting, my mom used to put the stuff in. I took my birth certificate, unrolled it. And put in my belt that my father bought me from France. I had a zipper and guess what I did that for? To roll it. It's because if I die, they might know who I am. The plane lands in Cairo, Egypt. I am in a bad situation where I look terrible, but I try to smile and every time I see water, wash my face, drink water, do my hair, like whatever I can. And everyone says to me, where's your family? Where's your mom and dad? And I said, oh, they're coming. Don't worry. You have to say that. You can't say I have no one because people react to it. And then Egypt, I stayed 2 days in the airport and everyone came back and I ended up, I went to the same people. There was 2 Somali boys who were 21 years old. And when I was in Mogadishu at the airport, I asked them, can I come with you? And they told me, no, you're a different tribe. Stay away from us. One of them didn't like me. And when I landed, I would just keep looking what they're doing. I need to do what they do cuz they're the ones look like me, speak like me. I'm gonna stay with them. They're closest to my age. Um, went to Romania, they bribed the immigration and I went the middle of the two of them, went through the immigration. They thought I was together. So I'm in Romania right now. Even the movies don't happen like this. I was thinking to myself, This is crazy. From Somalia to Romania, Egypt even not detected. So I end up in Romania. Now no one knows where I am. Those two boys moved on to, because they had money and, you know, moved on. So I'm in a refugee camp where the rooms don't have heater, and this is December, you know, Romania, it's cold. Somalia was better than Romania for me. And then stay there a year and a half and then catch a plane from there. I used to call my dad's friend who lived in Germany. My father helped him years ago when they had Somali and Ethiopian war. My dad used to tell me, I had a friend who lives in Germany. I keep calling, I have no one calling, and the guy hangs up on me because he thinks like everyone else who's calling them and saying, give me money. And I'm saying, no, I'm, I'm Isak's son. Now you won't believe me, everyone can trick everyone. Finally, his diplomatic passport was expiring and he become a people smuggler. I didn't know he was, I was just wanting to go to Germany and say I'm refugee, whatever. You know, I've heard that the story, you know, and this Somali guy who my friend's dad said to me, oh, do you have money? So I said, oh, I don't. And then he said, don't call me back. Then I call him back and say, look, my dad got some money in Switzerland. I don't, I've heard that in the movies. Well, I told him the story. He comes back and picked me up and he said all the Somali refugees, they were sending back to Somalia cuz Germans and Somalia had a relationship. And I said, look, I can't really go back to Somalia. So we, we make a deal, you know, $10,000, I'll give it to you, blah, blah, blah. So that's how he booked me in a plane to here. That's how I came. So he said to me, I can send you in a plane. To America, UK, Canada, and another country, and then Australia. I said Australia. And he said to me, why is that? He said, it's too far to return me back. And he said to me, you're being smart, aren't you? I said, no, I'm not. I'm being serious. But he thought I was being smart. I'm young kid by this stage. I'm 14 and a bit. So he gave me pants and he gave me a little bag that I can put in newspapers. I look like a tourist. And I, you know, older than my age, of course. So landed in Melbourne Airport, crossed the airport, called this Somali guy and, um, he disconnected his number because he knew I was coming because he didn't wanna help. And when I landed, went to his house, get to his house about 5 o'clock in the afternoon. He comes 1 in the morning. I'm sitting there. He said, who are you? I said, I'm the guy who's calling from Romania. I said, oh no, not real. How did you get here? I said, I'll tell you that story. Just take me to the immigration and get me a lawyer. 'Cause I watched a lot of movies in the Western world. You, the bad guy always get a lawyer. Yeah. Said, get me a lawyer. And he said to me, I don't even know how to get a lawyer. I said, I know how to get a lawyer. Just ask someone who speaks English. Don't worry about it. Just do it. And everyone says to me, oh, you think you know everything. I said, I don't., but that's the only next step. What other step I have? You can't just fall apart. I just came from Somalia, you know, I can't just— so he said to me, sorry, he left me, uh, in a place, Sydney Road and Brunswick corner, Sunday morning. He said, good luck. I looked around in Australia. Some people have never even seen African person. This is the '90s we are talking about. People don't know anything about Somalia. I said to myself, this is not good. So I went to the community center, sort of a church community center. The area has a lot of Greek Italians, Macedonians, a lot of migrant Turkish people, Lebanese. So it's kind of a nice place to come in a way. So I stayed the night there, the second night. In the morning I got up. And I went to the reception, no English. They call me an interpreter. Lucky I speak his native language. I said to him, look, I have nowhere to go. And he said to me, oh, come back Wednesday. I said, today's Monday. I have nowhere to go. I'm serious. 'Cause no one think that you actually homeless. No one thinks that. And I always say to people, rich countries is harder to get help than poor country. Have you thought that before? Because a rich country, people run away. Where poor countries, they say, oh, you have no food, eat. I know what's like, you know, I survived Romania, you know, I was in Egypt, you know, like at that time. And Australia was the hardest one because people, they will ask you the wrong question. And then Wednesday put me in place. I was 12 months going to 4 or 5 suburbs in Melbourne. Um, and then I end up getting my own government house because I am one of those people. I'll go and ask questions. I know the answer's no, but you'd never know. And when they give me an answer, they give me a little answer and then I'll run with that. Till today, I'm like that. Publishing a book, do you think that's easy to do? People often say, how did you do it? I explain to them, they don't believe me. Like, I'll tell them exactly what happened. Because people don't believe me who I am. Emma, it's not, it's, it's strangest to me. So that's how crazy it is, you know? And I like to pass this knowledge to young people who wanna listen to me.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 22:50
One of the traits of your personality is you are not afraid of taking risks, and that was a mechanism for you to survive, but that's something that you've used in your professional life to succeed. And is it something that you wanna pass on? Is it the thing that you think most important.
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 23:07
People are missing out. When I was a kid, I had an ego that, oh no, I can't do that. I'm talking about my early memory when I don't get what I wanted, but get rid of that ego. So I use that when I need it. Now I don't really use it too much, but when I'm sitting there, I'm not doing anything big, I use it now. Then I end up getting a TAFE. So I did TAFE because I couldn't get a job. And if I go to TAFE, you get paid. So this is even better. So I get paid to go to school. I said, this is crazy. Someone like me, that is an opportunity, not complain. I'm like, this is heaven. So after TAFE, I got a job as a youth worker. I never thought I would get a job like as a professional. I'm immigrant. You never get a job that everyone get paid. I'm thinking to myself, finish this course. Become a bus driver, and maybe if I've got a nice wife, go from there. That was my plan. Now, the reason that I become a youth worker, government was saying, oh, we are looking for male kindergarten children work because we don't have male figures or women working with children. And I thought, this is it. One person will give me a chance. This is it. When I see opportunity, take it. It could be not real. They probably won't employ me, to be honest. They'd probably find someone who looked like, not me. I went to the job, they said to me, can you do a couple hours? And I said, yes. One guy and myself, I think he was Australian Anglo, you know, 6'2", blue eyes, whatever. We apply the job together. He gets the job. I don't get the job. He leaves one week later. He said, I didn't even tell them. I said, are you kidding me? So he said to me, oh, whatever. I said, that's fine. I went back to the job and they said, oh no, we will advertise 6 months later or something like that. And then I went back and they give me 2 hours casual, the same position they give him full time. The same, I speak another language. He doesn't. I know different cultures and the area, had 2 more languages I speak. She didn't give me a job. I applied again. She gave me 2 hours, the same position I applied. 2 hours become 4 hours, 6 hours, and I found my kind people. I said, oh, can you call me when someone gets sick? And they call me. I got the job. Then I got 38 hours. I was working full-time. I was earning, oh my God, so much money where others would say, oh, it's not enough to— I'm thinking I can buy anything I like. And then from that on, everyone was demanding me to work with them. All the local governments calling, hey, we don't have anyone, mukla. And they were very blunt, a bit A bit terrible. We don't have an African man. I see myself Somali, but that's okay. Then I start, I said, oh God, great. And I went to places and, and I become a coordinator in a big center. I did a lot of volunteering, like I've never stopped. I get rest 2 days, 3 days. I go around, I do anything that people ask that I can do. Yeah. That's how I got to become a public speaker and people said to me, tell me your story. And I told my story, it was, you know, and that's how it started. And that's what I am today.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 26:18
So tell me about your experience working with young people and being an inspirational speaker to them. One thing that I'm interested to know is the kind of feedback that you got that makes you the proudest about the difference you are making with those kids.
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 26:36
I realized that there's two things. One is really hard to find genuine, uh, youth worker who talk to young people the way I do. And I worked 99%, not migrants. They were all Australians or migrant European born here. The way I treat the young people is the way they wanna be treated. So this is the key. If a young person tells you, oh, I'm like this, you don't shut them down. If you say to me, I wanna do this, I said, when are you doing it? Next, let's do it. That's just my personality. I enjoy the success. So that was my strength. And then there's no youth workers who did that. And that's why my program, people used to say, how come you got 50 kids and I haven't one or never turned up? And it, it, it wasn't a really good or bad is because I tell them things they want to hear. Young people, young people want to hear positive. They don't want to be negative because negative is their life every day.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 27:38
Tell me more about that.
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 27:41
If you ever want to be genuine and work with people, do not mention something they have conscious about. Don't mention someone that overweighed, don't talk about Uh, exercise. A young person who's got too many earrings, do not mention it unless positive. Man, that's really cool. You don't say beautiful cuz beautiful come across like a bit— you say, oh, that's really cool. Where did he get it? Oh my God, I might get it myself. Just be your friend. Don't mention it. And they're drawn to you because you're not judging them. So that's how I become very successful with young people. They don't even like me particularly, but I make them comfortable. You know, like people often, we choose who we're drawn to. So that's how I become very successful. And my best comment I got 2 weeks ago when I went to Deakin University, when the woman messaged me and said, uh, you can unlock, or you can disarm the actual truth of racism. That's the best time. When I Google it, means that you walk in the room and you actually, even if people are so racist, disarm it. That's what she meant. So that is the best Emma I've ever got so far. A woman who I, you know, we were talking and, and I said, what's your name? I said, she said, Catherine. I said, oh, you got typical white name. She laughed and we talked about it. We were talking about discrimination. They called me to talk about how they interview migrants and people of color. They didn't say people of color, but that's what it is. I said, look, go to, when you see Somali women, don't mention it. Oh my God, you cover hijab in covering your head. You must be hot. She knows that. Why is that? So I said, if they take their shoes off, they probably— researchers go house, take shoes off, you take your shoes off. If they don't shake hands, don't shake hands. Respect other people's culture. So one of them like put their hand up and she says, I don't understand it. I said, that's the problem. You already decided you don't understand, but if you go to Afghanistan or Somalia, you will do what they say. Oh yeah, I got it. Yeah, that's right. So when you say I don't understand it, you are the dominant culture. She wasn't actually a white Australian, but she was a migrant herself, but she speaks like the system. And I said, do not. So, and then I got this message. I mean, I got a lot of messages, but this message was the best one because that's what I want to hear. I want to hear that I'm making the difference. Even like in Australia, when I faced that lady who didn't give me the job and 10 years later, and I said, why didn't you give me the job? And she said, look, I just didn't know what to do because I've never met I couldn't trust you, but I trusted him because he was same culture as me. She was actually migrant. She was a white person, but a migrant from Europe herself. Her parents had a strong accent.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 30:44
It's hard to make the difference between when you are being actually discriminated against because people think you're different and they can't deal with your difference, and when they are actually just making a choice because they think the other person is better. It's hard. There is a line, you know, and it's hard to make clear-cut. So it was amazing for you to get that feedback from her because it validated your experience. She actually was honest.
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 31:10
I like that because honesty you can work on early in your relationships with people, whether your mom and dad or your partner. It's better to start with get to know the person. I'm talking about even your uncle that you've never met and you always heard bad things about your uncle. He's racist, a sexist, he hates everyone. Then you meet him, he's a nice guy. What I'm saying to you is that the way I deal with people is I show my, me, myself. I tell jokes, but at the same time, a lot of people I see haven't had the experience that I had because I, I had to change. I have to, to be able to get what I want in life, just to living a good life. If I drove a bus or I've been youth worker, I will be the same. I'll give you the same interview. I mean, academically, I finished school, English would be different, but I said, if I wear a mask, it's worse than being myself. It's like someone saying to you, you walked in a room of 100 men who've never met women before. How do you survive?
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 32:20
Wow. That's a very good question, actually. I don't know, like, I think actually the opposite. I think the tendency would be to try to fit in and mask your differences and code-switch in a way that people don't see you are different. But you did the opposite. So that's why I find it super interesting that you— but now that you explained to me your story and the fact that you had to lie earlier on about your identity, about when you had to say that you were from another tribe to survive, perhaps there is something about you that is like, no, I'm not going to lie about who I am or You said to me earlier something that I find very interesting is that being unapologetically yourself, being honest about who you are was a matter of survival to you.
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 33:08
That's right. I'm not gonna play that game. I just be myself because if I wear a mask or I don't wear a mask, they feel the answer is the same. Some people won't like you one reason, one way or the other. So the thing is, I have nothing to be insecure when I lost everything. I lost everything. There's no ego to it. People already thinking of me as a refugee. What shame do I have? It's like someone peel your skin and you're in the sun, you're burning and everyone's laughing at you. What do you got to lose to ask the water to drink? I'm a minority group, so whatever I say, It's the way they see it. Hmm.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 33:51
I'm starting to understand why you are so committed to assert your identity in this way, because you are constantly being reminded of your difference physically, you know, even without you saying anything. So you better just, you know, take ownership of your difference and mold it in the way you want to convey it in the way you think is fit.
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 34:14
Absolutely. Yeah, because you are not safe because they see me as a Somali person. Like, I already learned a lot from you since we met and, and you have to value that. They don't value the fact is I am help myself. 'Cause when you help yourself, you can help others. And that's why I'm doing your program today. I wanted people to see me as I'm helping myself.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 34:39
On the topic of helping people, because I can, um, imagine that some immigrants or refugees are going to listen to this episode today, do you have a word of wisdom or an advice for them to navigate life better? Let's say they struggle to fit in because that's something you've been particularly good at, creating a life where you don't even fit in, you just create your own rules. So anyway, what would be the advice for them?
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 35:05
The advice is, I always say, the advice is every time you feeling you can't fit in, it's easier to be successful. Every time you're different, it's the best way to be. In Somalia, I would've been just average man. So the idea is to be different is the good way to go. And remember, speaking another language, looking different, that's where beauty is. When I talk to young people who are 10 years old, I said, oh, look, uh, you know, have you seen my show? And they said, no. Well, if you see it, I'm the only guy who's tall and dark and handsome.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 35:44
Wow.
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 35:45
They laugh. That's their first experience being a tall and dark and handsome, not the one they heard before.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 35:50
Wow.
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 35:51
This guy, when someone says you're very funny, they love you. And that's what it is. So being different, I enjoyed this privilege in Australia, but to get out that privilege, You have to not care what people think of you. People is gonna think exactly what they think of you one way or the other. And most successful people like you and I, Emma, or other people who are stars or came from nothing and go up, they stopped worrying what people think.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 36:25
It's hard, no? It's a journey. It's not like one day you switch a button and you don't care anymore. You know, you, it's cyclic a bit, but If you don't let go of, oh my gosh, what are they gonna think of me? You never do anything in life.
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 36:38
And you do it slowly. So I don't wanna be unrealistic. I want your audience to know that what to change, don't do it too fast. Often we say, well, you must stop. No, no, no. I did it slowly. The first show I did, embarrassed about it, it's called Today Tonight. Emma, I didn't watch that show 20 years.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 36:57
Why?
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 36:57
Because, because I was embarrassed about it. What I, So, but slowly I changed. 20 years not watching, then I did go back to where you came from and then I watched that. So you can change slowly. Practice on people. Practice, you know, take a photo in social media, put something you embarrassed about, but that's normal. And then don't look at it for weeks and then look at it slowly. Oh my God, I can't look. And then slowly, and then you do another one and then another one. So that's how I teach people. I said, do it slowly.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 37:31
I love that. It's basically like a gradual exposure to embarrassing moments that build up your confidence or self-acceptance little by little. But it's interesting. It's like the more embarrassing things or risky things you're doing, where there is a chance that you're going to be very embarrassed by what you've done, the more you expose yourself to that, the less embarrassed you become. And also the better you become. At shaping the person you wanna be.
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 38:02
And you always find someone who like you the way you are.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 38:06
Mm-hmm.
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 38:07
But you have to do it many times. So you do it many times and you collect those people. I still have those insecurities that I've been told growing up. They're there. Then I thought to myself, why do I put myself in writing a book? Cuz writing a book in my culture is not a good thing because you're telling the truth. No, you're not meant to do that.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 38:29
It's exposing. It's exposing your vulnerability. But actually, you know, something that I want to ask you is how do you do when you do something very vulnerable, like telling your story in details, sharing parts that make you feel quite exposed? How do you deal with the embarrassment? Brené Brown uses this term that I love. She calls it the vulnerability hangover. You know, you feel, you feel like you have a hangover of vulnerability. How do you deal with this?
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 39:01
That's a good question. My first 2 years, every time I tell my story, I used to have a nightmare. So, because I'm, I'm reminding myself, but it wasn't the story too much, it's the way people see me as vulnerable refugee. They make fun of you. Okay. That's, there's the 2 things in there. One is actually your shame. You're feeling ashamed. Like when people don't talk about things, it's a shame. It's not about bravery or it's not about what people think. It's a shame. It's like a woman being raped by a family member, but you can't talk about it. Once you talk about it, you lose everyone. Somali people did not talk to me till a year ago because I was different. I actually, I'm the type of person who loves learning. So my first 2 years I struggled because people didn't understand my English. And in Australia, people are very lazy to give you a chance what you meant. Halfway they said, when you tell something, you said, oh, I went to Japan and I did a shopping. And they said, so you saying, yes, you went to Japan. They repeat what you said. To them to understand. I mean, I don't know if you've seen that before. So I realized, yeah, it's true. They will say to you, oh, so you saying, right? That's what I say. So because they're not trusting what you say, they're missing something because your face doesn't match your accent. People are looking your accent instead looking the person you are. That's different. So they struggle with that and majority is, and even the migrant think of the same. Look. Australia is the best place to be, to be honest with you. I love Australia. I love Australia because I do what I want to. I'm no limit.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 40:55
Do you have a book recommendation or, you know, any content that you'd like to recommend to the audience?
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 41:01
The book that I'd probably recommend, and a lot of people read it, is I Am Doe. I Am Doe is another refugee person who makes success. For me, like, if you come to Australia and you become successful, then you need to share it. That's my thing. Like, don't just think, oh, I've done well and that's it. But you need to give back to the community. You need to share how you did it. So Ando is one of those people that I like looking at his book.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 41:29
Is there a guest you'd like to have on the podcast?
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 41:32
Her name is Demet. She's a Turkish background and she will be good to interview. We support each other. And she tells the stories about being a migrant woman. And although she grown up here very young age, uh, she'll be very good to be interviewed.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 41:49
Amazing. So I have two more questions to go. And so the first one is, when I say the word refugee, what are the words that comes to mind?
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 41:59
Refugee is not something that most refugees like to hear. We don't like refugee because once you're labeled, it's very hard to get out. I become successful, am I still refugee? Refugee is someone who don't have anything. It's a bit degrading, belittling name to us. Well, I talk to a lot of people, but that's how I see refugee. I, I got a lot of people who book me and Abdi was a, a refugee and some people say former refugee and I like that. But refugee is a, a demonizing word in the Western world. Yeah. Refugee is more like you're less. Than other people. I don't feel that. I don't feel I'm less. I remember a woman saying once she was working, she was a high ranking of the government, and then she saw these Middle Eastern refugees come through the airport and she said, oh, they're wearing normal jeans, a normal top. She didn't picture that. I said, but what did you picture? She said, I don't know, but I thought they're worse than this. I said, but they have to wear something. The refugees got shirts and and jeans, what else they would have. So that stick to my mind. It's not what I think, it's what the society thinks. So refugee is, comes to my mind, is something that, Q jumpers, I've been called that, Q jumpers. Someone said to me once, oh, refugees are criminals, they sell drugs. And I said, but your parents came by the boat. He said, no, no, I came in the boat, 10 years old. But then why are you saying refugee? So they thought Europeans belong here, but if you are not, so refugees, even it's not European anymore, it's more like if you are other than that. So refugee, it's belittling people. That's how I see it. And that's why I say when you are different, use that difference to make the world change. Because one person can change one million, million can change another million. So that's how I see it. My son was doing a, when he was 10 years old in primary school, He was doing a culturing day and then the teacher says, she didn't mean anything. The teacher says, oh, do it your dad's culture because your mother's normal. Whoa. But I said to him, I said to him, oh, did he get upset? He said, no, my mom's normal anyway. He's already understood. The fact is my dad is different and my mom's normal, but as a refugee background person, And as people of color, I take offense to that cuz I don't want my son to think he's half is not normal. But my thinking inside is when I long gone, my legacy will be, it's a good legacy, I hope. And that's why I do it, what I do. And meeting people like you and I, our grand grandchildren one day will talk and say, oh, you know, my mother did a broadcast, my dad. My grand-granddad, you know, it's a good story and you leave something behind. I'm just assuming, you know, like just saying, don't worry what people say.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 45:01
Yeah. I would like to know, you say that you love Australia. Does Australia feel like home to you?
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 45:09
I love Australia and I feel home because I grown up here and I worked it out how to leave Australia and how to really make it home. So But people often remind me that I come from somewhere else. But for me, I get up every morning, I'm doing what I'm meant to do. I feel home, but I feel home. It's a very strong thing to say, but yeah, I do.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 45:36
Yeah, it's good that you do. A lot of migrants or refugees sometimes feel divided or they don't feel like they have a home anymore. And it's great that you have that. So for people who would like to follow what you do and, you know, get in touch with you, where can they contact you and find you?
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 45:53
People can contact me through social media, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, and my number often in my emails online. So people can message me anytime. Yeah.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 46:05
Fantastic. Well, Abdi, thank you so much for sharing your story, your insights with me on this podcast. Podcast. It was really a pleasure to hear you and learn from you. And, um, yeah, thank you so much.
Abdi Aden (Guest) · 46:18
Thank you very much for inviting me, Emma, and you have been really great asking questions. I felt very, very honored and safe to tell you the story. You understand about migrants and refugees, so I'm very appreciative and thank you very much.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 46:40
Thank you for listening to this episode. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Abdi and the story he has shared. If you did and want to help us grow, make sure you follow us and show us some love with likes and stars in the ratings. Your support helps more than I can say. Next week, I will be interviewing the fabulous Fabiola Campbell, a Venezuelan immigrant who's also the founder and CEO of Professional Migrant Woman. I was your host, Emma Bellamy, and I cannot wait to bring you on another journey from there to here.
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