Sarah Rosse
The story I had to share
A mental health professional discovers that her training couldn't prepare her for her son's suicide attempt, and that presence matters more than fixing.
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Kintsugi Studio
Sarah Rosse
A mental health professional discovers that her training couldn't prepare her for her son's suicide attempt, and that presence matters more than fixing.
Hear this story
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Sarah Rosse spent years in human services, supporting others through crisis. She thought she knew how to help. Then, in October 2023, her sixteen-year-old son attempted suicide, and everything she believed about herself as a mother shattered. She carried shame on the street, convinced people could see her failure written across her face. But sitting on his bedroom floor in the dark, she discovered something no training had taught her: there was nothing to fix, no professional knowledge that mattered. What helped was presence. Listening. Staying put when there were no answers.
Sarah had always told stories, through photography and scrapbooking and writing. When crisis came, she journaled to survive it. Over time, her scattered thoughts became intentional, reflective work that helped her reframe not just what happened, but who she was. She realized the mental health system her son moved through had its own fractures: people asked to repeat their trauma over and over, follow-up calls that never came, impossible choices presented as if they were simple. Without her professional knowledge, she might have been left waiting, waiting, waiting for help that would never arrive.
Now Sarah is stepping into things that terrify her. Speaking publicly. Having conversations. She has committed to 100 conversations over twelve months about parenting, mental health, identity, and caregiving. She stopped dyeing her hair and started writing her truth. She wants her sons to know they are enough, that feeling uncertain and uncomfortable is human and okay, and that talking about it changes everything. What she hopes for herself is peace, and the confidence to keep showing up, fully present, for people who need to know they are not alone in this.
“Stories really are what hold us together as humans. That's how we learn from each other, how we can normalize feeling ashamed, because there's always other people out there.”
“There really is nothing that I could even come up with... there was absolutely nothing but presence and just literally sitting and being with each other.”
“I felt like I'd failed as a mum. He was 16 at the time. I thought I'd done my very best, you know.”
The hero, today
Sarah started writing to get her thoughts out without judgment, and over time it became intentional, purposeful work that helped her reframe her own experience. When her son was in crisis, there was nothing to fix and no professional knowledge that mattered; what helped was sitting with him in silence and listening without trying to solve anything. Sarah felt profound shame as a mother when her son attempted suicide, despite her years of supporting others through mental health challenges, because she expected herself to be perfect and in control. The mental health system she encountered required her to be her own advocate and have prior knowledge to get her son the right care, which meant many families without that knowledge would be left without support. Sarah committed to doing things that make her uncomfortable, like public speaking and podcasts, because she discovered that growth happens on the other side of fear, not before it.
Yes. Sarah Rosse is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Sarah started writing to get her thoughts out without judgment, and over time it became intentional, purposeful work that helped her reframe her own experience.
When her son was in crisis, there was nothing to fix and no professional knowledge that mattered; what helped was sitting with him in silence and listening without trying to solve anything.
Sarah felt profound shame as a mother when her son attempted suicide, despite her years of supporting others through mental health challenges, because she expected herself to be perfect and in control.
The mental health system she encountered required her to be her own advocate and have prior knowledge to get her son the right care, which meant many families without that knowledge would be left without support.
John Milham (Host) · 00:01
the power of story and to transform yourself and others, right? Where do you think that comes from?
Guest · 00:07
I think I've always been a storyteller in some way. I'm very keen, like, I love photography, you know, I love scrapbooking. So visually telling stories and keeping memories. Part of unlocking my authentic self is now the writing part. Like, I'm just obsessed. I want to do it all of the time. And I almost see stories everywhere I go. It's almost looking at the world in a different way. And stories really are what, what hold us together as humans, right? So that's how we learn from each other, how we can almost normalize feeling ashamed, because there's always other people out there. And since I've started writing sort of smaller sort of social media posts, I've had so many people reach out to me, people that I've known for years, people that I used to work with or have known through different communities, and say, oh, thank you so much for saying that, I'm actually going through the same thing, or I'm actually you know, supporting my child or young person that is going through that right now.
John Milham (Host) · 00:59
Welcome back to Kintsugi Heroes, helping people tell the stories they need to share so you can find the stories that you need to hear. Uh, Kintsugi Heroes. Friends, fans, people who enjoy the show. Maybe you're here for the first time. You are welcome. Today we reach into our family cupboard. It's our, a member of the Kintsugi team, but so much more than that. Sarah Ross, welcome to Kintsugi Heroes: Stories That Matter. You are a memoirist. Maybe tell us what a memoirist is.
Guest · 01:45
I am now a memoirist. Really for me, it means sharing details of your life. It doesn't necessarily mean to you know, be a chronological order of life, but being able to tell your story, uh, snippets of your story in a way that is meaningful and helpful to others, I would say.
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This conversation includes a storyteller all along, what a memoirist does, from journaling to book, october 2023, the competent professional meets her own crisis and sitting on the bedroom floor.
John Milham (Host) · 02:03
Who is telling, so you say your story, who is your story? You know, who is telling the story?
Guest · 02:11
Uh, the story is from, from my perspective. So, uh, the characters of the story are my family members primarily. But the stories from my perspective.
John Milham (Host) · 02:21
So do you define yourself as a memoirist or is it just a description?
Guest · 02:26
Oh, it's probably a little bit early to describe myself as that, I feel, but I guess technically I am. The book that I've written recently is a memoir, but I would say I'm still coming to grips with the term being a writer. So yeah, memoir is the genre, I guess.
John Milham (Host) · 02:41
Yeah. So, but you also help other people. Write. So an aspect of that is a memoirist, not just because you write, have written a memoir, but because you help other people write memoirs.
Guest · 02:55
Yeah, I think so. For me, it was largely about writing, uh, obviously for myself, but really the, the end goal is to help other people. And for me, why would I consider telling such a really personal story if it wasn't going to help other people? That's really important part of it for me.
John Milham (Host) · 03:11
Is there a difference between, um, telling a story you've crafted as a memoir and just, you know, living a story like it's your story? How do those two things end up being different?
Guest · 03:26
When I first started writing down and telling my story, I could never have imagined how it would have evolved. So many iterations of writing a book or a story, I think, is, is quite the process, but it's almost turned into an invitation, I would say. So from the basis of a story, I had a dear friend help me with the early edits and the drafts of that, which really evolved it even more into a number of themes, but an invitation really has come from the completion of the story in that I really want to go out and have conversations about the themes in the book. So I think the story itself has evolved into something more. That we can bring to the community and have conversation about, raise awareness and build overarching that, that story to be something more meaningful.
John Milham (Host) · 04:20
Before we get into those kind of the meaning and where that has generated something new, right? The something old, did it change your story? Or like, did you like either how you feel about it or how it actually sits with you or the world?
Guest · 04:38
Uh, I think it changed how I felt about the story because when I first started writing, I didn't actually have the intention of publishing the story. Um, and I really didn't know where it would go, to be honest. It was when I was journaling through, through life events, never imagined that it could be a book, uh, or, or a story that would help other people. And I think when I started writing that, it was because I was really probably embarrassed and ashamed of, of mental health and how that was represented in my family. And that certainly has evolved. I think as I started writing also, there was themes that have happened in my life previously that I hadn't really made the connection to this life event and how I processed that. So it's evolved really into so much more than I ever thought would be possible. And that has helped me really you know, come forward to have conversations and really raise awareness around mental health and, you know, the fact that there's nothing to be ashamed of. And I'm now able to talk about that, whereas a couple of years I couldn't. So I think it's definitely evolved and changed how I feel about my life story, for sure.
John Milham (Host) · 05:53
You use the word journaling.
Guest · 05:55
Mm-hmm.
John Milham (Host) · 05:56
To some extent, you, uh, you have a, uh,, you know, a framework for journaling, right? So you, you, your original kind of study area was social science, right? Uh, you've done coaching and you have qualifications. And of course, one is a journaling coach, right? So, you know, I, I believe personally that journaling is a, is a really important part of sorting out the inner turmoil, keeping the monkeys quiet in the corner. What is your understanding of journaling from, from a professional point of view, and then how that morphed into, you know, writing a much bigger story.
Guest · 06:32
I think there's many facets of journaling and there's not really, you know, a right or a wrong way to do it. When I first started, it was literally getting me through day to day, just jotting down a couple of things, you know, my thoughts, what was happening. It could be lists of appointments or feelings that I had. Journaling to me evolved into probably more intentional writing. So when I first started, I've journaled probably, I'd say most of my life. Journaling comes in lots of different formats, whether it's just jotting a few things down each day or not.
John Milham (Host) · 07:07
Did you have a diary as a kid?
Guest · 07:09
Yeah, it's one of those dinky diaries, you know, with the little locks on it. So yeah, in some format it comes out, doesn't it? Yeah, I think when we're younger as well, but what's evolved in, in order to write a book really was more intentional and a lot of self and inner, inner work to get to the point of actually being able to share that. I think journaling also, you know, in my book has a format of letter, letters, like, so I write letters, could be to people that are never sent, it could be to myself, could be to things. So I write I've actually written a letter to my journal and to grief and my handwriting and things like that. So it becomes a different format of journaling and writing, I think, as you do that inner work and realize sort of which direction your story is going, I guess.
John Milham (Host) · 07:57
I'm fascinated, you know, before we sort of, you know, explain the context a little bit about the journaling and the writing, you're writing to, so you're third-personing, right? Almost. Are you detached? Like, are you observing your life, uh, uh, you know, and recording it almost like as a documenter of your life? Or are you re-experiencing? Is this a way of getting away from the feelings that were so hard?
Guest · 08:25
I think it's probably both. And I think that different type of journaling can happen at different times. So certainly when I was through the, you know, through the life challenges, when I was jotting things down, it was really to, to write it down and forget about it. It was really quite confused as you go through life circumstances. And at times it was just literally writing things down so I could move on from that thought or, you know, get the bad feelings out. The journal sort of became a place where I could just dump my thoughts and actually move on from that. And almost a process of, I've written it down, you know, let's move on with the day. Um, as I've worked through that over the years, it has become more intentional. So it's really identifying why I'm journaling, uh, perhaps even answering a prompt or a question that might be relevant to me at the time. And then sometimes coming back to it and saying, well, what, what did that mean for me? What, what could I take from that? And what have I learned? So there's an element of reflection sometimes with the journaling as well. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 09:25
I feel like journaling and, you know, that kind of story processing evolves, there's that dropping down or, you know, getting something out, which isn't all that helpful from a psych point of view, but it does something like clearly so many people do it and feel better after. But then there's that process, as you said, reflection and almost like preparing using that sort of reflection process to reframe, right? So then starting to review what, what was happening. Did you, is that Like you talk about going from journaling, you know, sort of brain dump to intention. Is that what was happening? Are you reframing what's happened to you, trying to get it into a place where it becomes resourceful rather than it's painful?
Guest · 10:11
Absolutely. And initially it was really about writing to have a place to put my words without judgment. So, um, I found it really difficult to talk about my feelings and what was happening for me at the time. So even writing it down on a page, sometimes even screwing it up, putting them in the bin, never looking at it again was helpful at the time. But as I moved through, you start writing with more intention and meaning. And I guess understanding a little bit more about the words that you're writing or the purpose, turning the words into purpose, because there's nothing wrong with having writing in a book, in a journal, just for the sake of getting your thoughts out. But to move forward and actually build and grow from your experience, it needed to change.
John Milham (Host) · 10:57
Yeah. Now, of course, having, um, you know, a practice of journaling in your life, tell us how you ended up needing to journal and to, to, to repair what, what was going on for you.
Guest · 11:13
Uh, well, as I said, I've always journaled, but it, it, took it to the next level, I guess. Yeah. So in October 2023, my son attempted to take his life. And whilst my story is telling my version of it, it kind of really tossed up everything I thought I knew about myself as a mum, particularly.
John Milham (Host) · 11:33
Yeah.
Guest · 11:35
But about, about life, I guess. And as we, we go through, we can see a lot of other sort of themes of loss and grief that, that, that raised for me. I didn't recognize it straight away. And I think that's also where journaling can be really helpful. You may be in a state of crisis or feeling totally overwhelmed and not really know why you're feeling the way you're feeling. So it is good to jot that down. But at the time, it kind of just, yeah, threw my world upside down. I didn't. I didn't see it coming. I didn't really understand mental health very well. And it impacted, incidentally, my own mental health as well. It was sort of a question for me around my identity. Well, how did this happen? I thought I was a pretty good mum. What does this mean for me as a mum? Because I felt really— one of the keys of writing it, writing all this down, I felt, I felt like I'd failed as a mum. He was 16 at the time. You know, I knew I wasn't a perfect parent, but I thought I'd, I'd done my very best, you know.
John Milham (Host) · 12:39
How dare you not be a perfect parent, right? I know. Turns out I've never met one before, so I'm glad you're not, because I'd just have to stop, right? So yeah, talking to you because I'd be ashamed of my own parenting. A 16-year-old, of course, you know, famously 16-year-old boys are a little bit of a mystery to most of the world, right? You're, as a mum, how did you, like, your childhood, to be caught by surprise by what happened in the, in that time? Well, you obviously, you know, sort of emerged fairly unscathed from childhood and your family experience and relationships. Was that true? Was it like, had you just, you know, sort of wandered through a very kind of happy pathway?
Guest · 13:30
No, not at all. And I think when I said I didn't understand, it was more, I, I had an understanding. I've worked in human services for almost 10 years. I totally understand. But when it's in your own home, it felt very different to me. It felt really, obviously very personal, but it's like, okay, this is, I almost thought, oh, this is now the story that I have to carry. And you know, I can work alongside other people. I can, you know, I can counsel them and, and coach them. And, you know, when it's somebody else, it feels very different.
John Milham (Host) · 14:03
Yep.
Guest · 14:04
And when it's in your own home, you're like, this is actually happening to me now, or my story. What am I going to do about this? And I, I'm really embarrassed to say now, but I just really felt so ashamed. I walked on the street and I felt people were looking at me going, oh my gosh, I know what a terrible mother she is. And I know that. Reality was not happening, but that's how I felt. And I don't know where that came from. I think the, uh, the expectation that I have always been a very, uh, competent, high-functioning professional, you know, to actually think that that was part of my story felt really shameful for me at the time. And it's horrible to say that now because it wasn't about anything to do with my son and I wasn't ashamed of him or upset with him, but myself. For some reason that's how I felt.
John Milham (Host) · 14:53
It's an interesting take, isn't it? Because, um, I recall, uh, you know, as a manager in the, you know, corporate world, right? People come to you and they, they lay out a vulnerability or, you know, they're having some sort of situation in their life and, uh, you know, driven, driven by this unstated sort of hidden, masked, if you will, arrogance that I'm competent and I'm not tolerant of people who are not. And I'm just wondering, like, you know, that's a very human place to have. And we cover it up often, right? We're often sort of very aware of our language and our relationships, particularly in the caring sector. I would postulate that I've seen that quite a lot, right? A lot of people without lived experience are very caring, but in a kind of detached, almost, you know, almost paternalistic way. Is that something, you know, you've encountered or you're, you know, that shame I'm interested in?
Guest · 16:06
Yeah, look, it really took me by surprise. It still does even now saying that I still don't necessarily know where it came from. I think I always had very high expectations for myself, both personally and professionally.
John Milham (Host) · 16:19
Yeah.
Guest · 16:19
And I have certainly had a lot of loss and grief in other ways throughout my life. I have experienced challenges. I have, I've talked to staff whose own children have had these mental health issues. Yeah. I've talked to clients that have had mental health issues and worked through that and supported them. There's no element of shame at all in that. But yeah, for some reason, I don't know why necessarily. I think it was my own expectation of who I should be.
John Milham (Host) · 16:45
Yeah.
Guest · 16:46
And how, you know, that certainly changed and evolved as well.
John Milham (Host) · 16:50
Yeah. Often unlocking identity through, you know, experiential challenges takes us to a new level. Do you feel this is, you know, part of your trajectory of growth.
Guest · 17:06
Absolutely. Um, you know, someone asked me the other day, why did you write a book? Like, it's almost like all the universes have aligned, you know, something as basic as I've stopped dyeing my hair. So I am literally the authentic self that I should be. I know that sounds really silly.
John Milham (Host) · 17:23
It's symbolic though, isn't it?
Guest · 17:24
It's like, it really is. It really is. Yeah. So many things really that have. Been such a gift from this situation really, where I've almost stepped into myself where I should, I feel that I should be. Um, you know, I went to the Gippsland Writers Festival in August last year and I sat there listening to other people's story and that's when I started to realize that there's probably value in sharing some of my story as well. And then I got involved in Kintsuki Heroes and I've really, I mean, it's just life-changing, but to look at the lens, I've really written my book through the lens of Kintsugi, where you, you know, take a broken piece. I felt so, so broken at the time and realizing there's beauty in that, in patching it back together and working through those identity pieces that you talk about. I feel like I'm coming out of the other end of it. I don't know if I'm more beautiful than before and I don't have enough gold inside of me, but it really does feel like I have, and it sounds clichéd, but evolved into something more authentic. I think because of the experience.
John Milham (Host) · 18:29
That's fabulous. The power of story and to transform yourself and others, right? Where do you think that comes from?
Guest · 18:38
Um, I think I've always been a storyteller in some way. I'm very keen, like I love photography. Uh, you know, I love scrapbooking. So visually telling stories and keeping memories. Part of unlocking my authentic self is now the writing part, like I'm just obsessed. I want to do it all of the time. And I almost see stories everywhere I go. It's, it's almost looking at the world in a different way. And stories really are what, what hold us together as humans, right? So that's how we learn from each other, how we can almost normalize feeling ashamed because there's always other people out there. And since I've started writing sort of smaller sort of social media posts, I've had so many people reach out to me. People that I've known for years, people that I used to work with or have known through different communities and say, oh, thank you so much for saying that. I'm actually going through the same thing, or I'm actually, you know, supporting my child or young person that is going through that right now. What do you think? I've had people call me out of the blue and say, can I have a chat with you?
John Milham (Host) · 19:41
Yeah.
Guest · 19:42
It seems to have kind of unlocked an invitation, as I said before, for other people to have a conversation, which is just, just wonderful.
John Milham (Host) · 19:49
Yeah, I love that, the idea that it unlocks the human connection part, right? You know, people want to connect because they hear a story. It's obviously powerful. They obviously see themselves in that story in some way and want to confirm it because you're, you sound like you're telling the world what I feel and was unable to tell the world.
Guest · 20:16
Yeah. And who, who could have even imagined that that would be the case? Like, even as I was writing my story, I thought, oh my gosh, this is just way too personal to share. And you go through the editing process, but I think you're right that people will definitely see themselves in parts of it.
John Milham (Host) · 20:33
Yeah.
Guest · 20:35
Yeah. There's so many sort of human elements to, funnily enough, a human story. It's really amazing how it comes out like that.
John Milham (Host) · 20:42
Uh, yeah, we, we are so, have so much, uh, in common at times, um, particularly in suffering. One thing I'm interested in, you, you, you so carefully placed your son outside of your story, right? I really like the differentiation. Your son's story is not yours and vice versa. Often we, we. We own others in our own story, like they're actually just bit players, right? And I find that challenging. But if you feel like you can share a little bit of your son's impact on your story, when you were going over the process of how you ended up in that situation, did you see anything about, unlock the secret of why someone in a circumstance finds struggle and suffering as part of their process? Did you come to a conclusion about why your son was where he was?
Guest · 21:46
I think that probably, I don't know if it's the complete answer. I think down the track, as my son was supported to have, you know, treatment for anxiety and depression, he was also diagnosed with ADHD. And I was really worried at the time about what a, you know, diagnosis may mean for him, but he was absolutely amazing, John. Like he took it on board. He obviously participated very actively in the process given his age, but he actually almost took, took that diagnosis as a little bit of a step to understand why he might be feeling the way that he's feeling. Not that it's the only reason, I'm sure, but You know, and, and I've since learned that that's really strong correlation between ADHD and, uh, mental health. I think it did give a little bit, uh, context potentially as to why he was feeling like that. And I think sometimes you don't actually know why that happens. Mental health is very, uh, can sneak up on you, of course, but yeah, it's not always explainable. I think that diagnosis has given us a lot of context and potential understanding and of Of course I felt bad about that. I felt guilt and shame that why hadn't that been picked up earlier? But you know, his key school years were through COVID as well. So we, you know, not that that's an excuse. We didn't really have a pathway.
John Milham (Host) · 23:08
Yeah.
Guest · 23:09
But it certainly has given us a lot of reasoning and further understanding about why that might have a little bit, it's given us words to be able to talk about it and I like what you said before about connection because that connection between my, my son and myself has intensely grown stronger. If nothing else, that would be the great gift that's come from all of this, really. I was really lucky enough to be his go-to person. And yeah, that connection has grown even more now.
John Milham (Host) · 23:38
It's, uh, interesting, as you say, correlation, uh, from my own experience, right, with a diagnosis, the, I look back and I feel more capable of letting go the impacts that people, you know, had on me through judgment and through criticism and through, you know, broken expectations, right? What they wanted from me was impossible anyway. I'm interested too in, as you say, the connection grew. Through the challenge, which is a beautiful effect of what you're doing. Did you get a chance to talk about what it felt like for him? Do you know what he was going through? What, you know, the movement towards putting his own life in danger, right? They say it's never about wanting to end your life. Do you know what it was about?
Guest · 24:36
Not exactly. And I think it's been very difficult. For him to articulate that. And I, I reflect and think about times there'd be evenings where I'm sitting on his bedroom floor, trying to console him and thinking, what, what, what can I say? And there's nothing like this type of event to really, there really is nothing that I could even come up with. I was really sort of thinking everything professionally. What do I know? What could I draw on here? And there was absolutely nothing but presence and just literally sitting and being with each other. And he, I remember he would say to me, I don't know why I'm feeling like this. And I'm like, it's okay to not know. And that's really the hard part. I think we all have to, even today, I still don't know why I feel the same way sometimes either. But the connection came with, with presence. What I've realized in becoming my authentic self and still areas that I need to improve on is just stopping and listening and not fixing. That was probably the hardest thing because I, I didn't know how to fix it. I still don't know how to fix it. And if I did, I probably, you know, would be a millionaire, I think. But being present and, and just actively listening and recognizing that we're humans, we don't, we don't actually have all the answers, but we're here for each other.
John Milham (Host) · 26:02
Yeah. As you say, if you were able to understand it, you know, more deeply and unlock the mysteries of that particular state of wanting to end pain or, you know, stop life because of reasons, you know, because of the difficulty of it. I think it's more than one a second in the world. It's a huge wake-up. The learning from this period, right, which you, you know, you talk about in your book and you go through, do you want to stop talking about it? No.
Guest · 26:41
And I want to talk about it more because the more I talk about it or post about it, the more I realize a lot of people are actually experiencing exactly the same thing.
John Milham (Host) · 26:54
Yeah.
Guest · 26:56
And when there is words, and I'm not always good at finding the words to describe it, but where there is an opportunity for people to come together and talk, sit, cry, share, that's, that's the conversation or the presence that needs to happen. You know, I've really been lucky. I've had, you know, chats with a few mental health organizations where I live, and they're so keen to work with people that have that lived experience, because everybody's situation or circumstance is so very different, to have someone else to bring a perspective to it. It has to be talked about. Yeah. And it's not easy to talk about, is it? Like, it's not easy to find the words all of the time. And I think that was certainly a lot of, you know, the shame and embarrassment that I had to start with. I didn't know how to talk about it and I didn't, didn't even know how to identify what I was feeling.
John Milham (Host) · 27:49
I imagine that, you know, like the challenge sitting in that feeling of shame, which is a place no one voluntarily walks into, right? I think you get practiced at it, but you don't, it never not happens that you feel you touch that feeling. So it's a pretty big thing. Lived experience has power. Did you, Did you realize there was a difference between, say, your professional world where you're helping people out with learned experience and then having gone through stuff? Did that change how you helped people or how you connected with people?
Guest · 28:28
I think so. I was just sort of thinking as you were talking, you know, when I was going through all of this, I still had to turn up to work.
John Milham (Host) · 28:34
Yeah. Wow.
Guest · 28:35
And be that professional, which was really tough. I really went through a tough period there where You know, nothing else seemed important to me except, you know, focusing on my son and making sure he was going well. But I think it gives me a depth to the work that I do now. I have had many conversations with people I've worked with about, you know, their experience. Once they hear about this book or some of the experience that I've shared, they're like, oh, me too. Um, and that's a really powerful thing.
John Milham (Host) · 29:06
When you're moving forward, like with purpose, how do you feel like you can help someone transform now? What, what tools have you gained?
Guest · 29:17
I think my voice as a starter, and I know that sounds really obvious, but stepping into feeling uncomfortable about talking about mental health. There is nothing to be ashamed of. Sometimes I think, what, what, what were you thinking? You know? That's, that's what it was at the time. Um, and being open, so being an ear, being available. Also the book, I guess, is a resource that people can use. I've talked a lot in there about things that I would have done differently or things that I, I would approach differently now that I've got a little bit more insight. So I think that can be helpful. Seeing the interest from people about wanting to talk about the lived experience, and I'm hoping you know, in the coming months or years that might help other people too. So I think there's a lot of different ways. I think even doing, you know, my volunteer work with Kintsugi Heroes has become a little bit more meaningful to me because of that lived experience, which I think brings, brings value as well.
John Milham (Host) · 30:15
It's great. And it sounds quite adventurous. Are you more adventurous? Are you more confident or less confident about your place in the world and the place Trying to be more confident.
Guest · 30:29
I'm stepping into and doing things that really make me feel uncomfortable.
John Milham (Host) · 30:32
Yeah.
Guest · 30:34
I would never have dreamed of being on a podcast, to be honest. I'm always the backstage person. And now I've got a couple of conversations lined up. Even looking at in-person events where I'm sitting in front of an audience, like I'm a classic introvert, John. I hate talking about myself. So. This is really—
John Milham (Host) · 30:52
Okay, we'll just sit here and bask in your discomfort knowing that—
Guest · 30:57
Thanks so much.
John Milham (Host) · 30:58
Knowing that it's educational for both of us, right?
Guest · 31:01
Yes, yes. Happy to be uncomfortable for the benefit of others.
John Milham (Host) · 31:05
For the benefit of others indeed.
Guest · 31:07
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 31:08
Your experience, of course, you know, leading up to your time with your son and you described yourself as as a great mum, right? The, the interesting thing about, like, mother, mothers, uh, you know, in my mind have this incredibly powerful place in the world, right? Um, did you get this sense that your, your power as a mum, as a woman, as a, as a sort of matriarch, right? Was it, was impacted, was changed by having this like sort of internal crisis that is so transformative, but also so discombobulating, really, you know?
Guest · 31:49
Gosh, that's a, that's a big, big loaded question. Well, yes, absolutely changed. Uh, I think the stage of life that I'm in, middle age, is also a compounding factor, which I really wasn't aware of at the time.
John Milham (Host) · 32:03
Yeah.
Guest · 32:05
I always think, I'm probably changing my view a little bit, but I, I always thought that as a, as a mum, I had to solve everything. I was the fix-it, I was the go-to, I was the soother, the carer, the nurturer, you know, but I think my husband's great at that too. But, but I've had to, yeah, call in for help. Had to be the one to solve everything. And I remember actually when I get a bit emotional when I talk about it, but when I shared the story of what happened with my own mum, because I didn't tell anybody really what had happened with my son for a long time. I was holding all of that in. And it was almost like a relief. And I think you're right. Mums have a very special power, I suppose, whether they're on the phone or far away. Yeah, I've kind of realized that as much as I would have liked to think so, I'm not Superwoman and it's okay. It's actually okay to ask for help. And, and, you know, as I say, used to say to my little Liz, use your words and actually reach out for help.
John Milham (Host) · 33:03
We bring together the feeling of shame and competency and wholeness. By feeling like for some reason that's got tied up with, I'll have to do this myself.
Guest · 33:12
Absolutely. Yes.
John Milham (Host) · 33:13
But it's not true, is it?
Guest · 33:15
Yes. And that's not the advice that I would give anyone professionally or even my friends. But for some reason I thought that's, that's who I was and what I needed to do.
John Milham (Host) · 33:24
Speaking of help, right? You need to tap into the system. How, how was that for you?
Guest · 33:31
Wow. System, mental health system. Certainly has challenges of its own. I talk a lot in the book about the vulnerability. It really made me think, you know, not only at the time but also on reflection, people that are in a very fragile, you know, circumstance going into hospital, for example, they're asked over and over and over again to repeat this story. Yeah, very good reason for that, but at times there is absolutely no reason for it just because of different Nurse comes, you know, almost literally past the other. And so I was there to, to, to share that story over and over again when this happened. But, you know, there's, there's ultimate sort of barriers there for people that can't advocate for themselves or, or really are in a state where they just can't, you know, communicate, uh, how they're feeling. We went home from hospital that evening. We were waiting. We were assured that there'd be a follow-up call from the mental health service that never came. And I think I was lucky, you know, drawing on my professional experience to be able to, um, you know, have those observational skills and reach out to that service myself rather than waiting for the call if that was needed. And I imagine people would just wait and wait and wait and literally not— help doesn't come. Uh, so I, I did have to reach out. We, we've got a great GP that my son's really had a great relationship with over the years, so that's been helpful. But without that, and without my knowledge of the system, we would, we would have just been left flailing really, just not, not engaged really at all.
John Milham (Host) · 35:03
It's an indictment, isn't it? You know, like, you know, to be, to access a system that requires, you know, an advocate, you know, some prior knowledge, you know, the resources to be, you know, to get there and to do there and to insist on being serviced.
Guest · 35:21
Yeah. And it was without that prior knowledge that I couldn't have insisted on that.
John Milham (Host) · 35:25
Yeah.
Guest · 35:26
You know, even the question, I remember they, they said to him, oh, you know, do you want to, do you want to go home or do you want to go to the psych ward? Like they're very two different extremes. And I stepped in with my service knowledge and said, no, that, that, that second option is definitely not going to happen. But how do people, particularly in that circumstance, make a choice or advocate for themselves in that, you know, it's really one extreme or the other.
John Milham (Host) · 35:52
It's quite coercive, you know, like if at home is, is so painful that you, you know, that you're, you know, either contemplating or taking action to remove yourself from that place, then they ask you to go back there as, you know, as to avoid something equally as scary, right? It's just a very clumsy process.
Guest · 36:15
Yeah, for a young person that didn't have any knowledge of that system to make that decision. I mean, you know, obviously we're there to support that decision-making, but yeah, it's an extraordinary question.
John Milham (Host) · 36:26
So, you know, part of your purpose moving forward, do you want to, you know, like, how do you want to manifest, you know, change? What do you want to bring to, you know, like, so obviously individuals hearing your story and, and, and being supported in that to either contact or make changes themselves or be inspired to look further. Is there, do you want to do something, you know, systemically as well?
Guest · 36:53
To be honest, I haven't really thought about that too much. I see the book almost as a stepping stone to that. And I'm sort of sitting back really curious to see how it unfolds, to be honest. Like I've, when I've been putting it out into the community, the response has been really amazing, you know, people coming to me, we want to work with you, we want to talk about this, which I could never have imagined happening before this. So I think organically it may lead to something. Yeah, I don't, I don't know yet. We'll wait and see. I think it's already making some impact, which is really exciting.
John Milham (Host) · 37:31
Yeah. Do you want to, uh, you mentioned like going into places that are more challenging, you know, have less ka. Out of your comfort zone. What is that? What does that look like? And, and what is the motivation for stepping into something that's this uncomfortable?
Guest · 37:52
I kind of think this year's been my year of being uncomfortable, trying to embrace it and really work through what that feels like. Because I think, you know, if my son is to go through this experience, I've supported him through that. That was really uncomfortable for both of us and in different ways.
John Milham (Host) · 38:08
Yeah.
Guest · 38:09
Not long after this happened, we took a family holiday to the Gold Coast. We'd had already this holiday planned for my, my son's birthday. And I went on a, an adult roller coaster for the very first time. I absolutely hated every minute of it, but for me it was sort of stepping out and demonstrating that I can do hard things. I had my eyes closed the whole time, but, but it was really stepping outside my comfort zone. So I've almost sort of committed to myself that I'm going to do, even if I immediately want to say no to opportunities, I'm going to say yes and, and try and do it anyway. You know, you can't see, but in front of me, I've got all of these notes. I haven't even looked at them once because once I start talking, I can't stop, but recognizing that I don't have to have all the answers and feeling uncomfortable is part of growing. Like that's I think I've built my life to be so predictable for, by my own definition, you know, I've had control, I've planned things, I've had a wonderful career and it's all gone the way that I've wanted it to go. This really identified for me that life can change in an instant and you can't plan and control that. No. So I'm trying to be more open and stepping into that. And I know I can do hard things. I know that gut feeling that feels really uncomfortable, it will pass. And I try and, I try and journal it out. So it's, it's becoming more aware of myself rather than saying no because it feels uncomfortable. I'm trying to say yes and do things that make me feel uncomfortable. We all can do hard things. It just doesn't feel nice at the time, but I think afterwards I'll really feel, you know, feel it was well, well worth the effort.
John Milham (Host) · 39:55
The, the idea of doing hard things, I like, it's a really catchy statement, right? We can all do hard things, but it's, it really leads you into a place where, you know, you want to, to go and do, you know, have more deeper, more sort of challenging experiences in life. Is that the purpose of, of of sort of getting through tough times, do you think? Is that like, is that growth? Is that what that is defined as?
Guest · 40:24
I think that's what I finally realized it feels like.
John Milham (Host) · 40:27
Yeah.
Guest · 40:27
Because there's growth in, you know, really happy, joyful moments as well. But where you've actually, you know, recognized that it feels uncomfortable and still done it anyway, uh, that's almost a different feeling of growth and it almost gives me a little bit more confidence and courage to do it next time. I dread public speaking, for example, but I've got some opportunities coming up. I'm gonna, I'm gonna give it a go. Yeah. And I don't think there's anything wrong with showing our humanness in that and say, hey, look, I am really nervous, but I'm gonna do it anyway. I think that that really is what growth is about, and not many people do that, I think, because it feels so so terrible, but yeah, I'm, I'm giving it a go.
John Milham (Host) · 41:11
Fantastic. Right. What, what do you hope for your son's journey forward? Like, you know, you can't talk for him, but you know, what are, what hopes do you have for him?
Guest · 41:24
Uh, it's funny, you know, I gave a little speech at his 18th birthday and I said, you know, I would literally give up my life if I knew that he would be healthy. And happy moving forward. I want him and my, and my other son to see their self-worth. I don't want them to, you know, be cocky or overly confident, but I want them to know that they are perfect just the way they are. That we can do hard things and feeling uncomfortable and feeling uncertain and feeling, you know, like I'm not sure where I'm at and how I'm feeling is absolutely okay, but talk to someone about it because we all feel like that. I think when you're in that moment, you just don't think anyone understands. Um, and it's amazing once you actually put it out there into the world, how much support and, and humanness and that connection is, is there. Absolutely.
John Milham (Host) · 42:14
So you want him to keep pushing himself into unknown areas, right?
Guest · 42:19
Yeah, absolutely. And I think what I've learned through all this, John, is that I used to think that life was linear, right? So you go to school, you know, I went to university. Get a full-time job, that, that's, that's how life was supposed to go. It doesn't actually work like that. And that's really challenged my traditional views. It's okay, you know, to work part-time jobs or, you know, really live life on your terms. It's really identified to me that there is a different path for everybody. And again, feeling uncomfortable or breaking down those initial, you know, perceptions of how life should happen really opens you up to a more fulfilled life when you don't have that expectation.
John Milham (Host) · 43:01
Very true. What do you want to come to you? What do you want, uh, karma, fate, you know, the universe, God, what do you want them to bring to you now? I want peace.
Guest · 43:16
I just want, I know it sounds like a bit like Kung Fu Panda, inner peace. I want I want that self-confidence to go out and, and continue having these conversations. You know, I talked about Consiki Heroes before, but seeing how impactful, you know, going out and doing events, really taking it back to the basics of being human and having that connection, having a conversation, stopping, putting your phone down, looking at someone and having that presence really is so, so important. I'm hoping that will give me some, you know, focus and meaning moving forward. It feels like that I'm almost like my true authentic self. It's a shame that it's taken this long to happen, but you know, that's what I hope that continues for me in the universe.
John Milham (Host) · 44:04
Well, is there any other way you can find that peace apart from going through some, you know, black and some white?
Guest · 44:11
I wish there was, but I don't think so. I mean, you don't really know the other side of it, do you, until you go through a little bit of that. Uncomfortable process and life challenge to give perspective to, to what you want moving forward, I think.
John Milham (Host) · 44:24
Yeah. Now I did say I'd speak about it earlier, 100 Conversations.
Guest · 44:29
Mm.
John Milham (Host) · 44:30
Tell, tell us about 100 Conversations.
Guest · 44:32
Yeah, talking about being uncomfortable. Hey, so I've put, given myself a bit of a, a bit of a mission, I suppose. I've committed myself to having 100 conversations. Over the next 12 months about not just my book, but the themes in the book, whether that be parenting, mental health, identity, uh, being a caregiver, all of those things. I'm officially counting this as number 1. So congratulations to you.
John Milham (Host) · 44:58
I'm number 1.
Guest · 44:59
Yay. But yeah, opening that invitation. Um, and I've got some really great conversations coming up, um, with, with different podcast hosts as well. But it could be, uh, you know, organizations, neighborhood houses, libraries, someone on the street, want to go have a coffee, let's have a chat. That's really what I'm aiming for.
John Milham (Host) · 45:20
As you go through 100 Conversations, is this like about soaking in humanness? Is that what you're after? Or wisdom, seeking wisdom? What's the purpose of 100 Conversations?
Guest · 45:31
Oh, I love that idea. Soaking in humanness. Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. It's that shared experience, isn't it? To I don't know if I'm looking for a validation of the shared experience. I think that's already evident, but yeah, I guess it is the humanness. This, I love that term. I'm going to, I'm going to write that down, soaking in the humanness and, and showcasing that, you know, that we are all human at the end of the day. We all, I think we all have some element of mental health, uh, whether it's really great mental health and we can share that as well, strategies and things that work. Or sometimes periods of ill mental health, we all fluctuate with that. So yeah, I like that. I'm going to take that term, soaking in the humaneness.
John Milham (Host) · 46:12
You're welcome. What you were talking about earlier, the anxiety of neurodiversity, sometimes you're there and the overwhelming complexity of the world, the way we see it, can actually really be quite, you know, anxiety producing, right? So you, when you're in something that's sort of big and colorful and loud and active and breathing, like the city or somewhere. Sometimes I've, you know, I've discovered that I have to allow it to soak into me, right? I have to feel the core humanness, right? Because all the noise and fury, the sound and fury signifying nothing really just causes the anxiety. But when you go back down and allow them to, you know, that there is beauty there and that beauty is soothing, it's therapeutic.
Guest · 47:00
So, and I think that kind of is probably what I meant earlier when I said slowing right down, very much being more present, going for a walk, seeing the colors of the flowers rather than rushing by and thinking what's next, you know, yeah, stopping and actually noticing and yeah, I love that soaking it in. Yeah, absolutely.
John Milham (Host) · 47:20
Beautiful. So second, second book.
Guest · 47:23
Oh, look, I've got lots of, lots of plans. Yes, definitely, definitely a second book.
John Milham (Host) · 47:29
Don't know exactly a writer. Hmm.
Guest · 47:33
That's a really good question. I don't know. Again, it's a confidence thing, isn't it? Or how do you define yourself as a writer? Because you've published one book. Are you a writer? I don't know. How many, how many books do you think you need to call yourself a writer?
John Milham (Host) · 47:46
Yeah. Maybe that'll be the question we ask next time. Are you a writer yet?
Guest · 47:51
Hmm. Maybe there's a book in that.
John Milham (Host) · 47:54
Indeed. Indeed. Certainly there's a story. And of course, we've had a story today. Thank you so much, Sarah, for talking about your story, talking about stories, talking about the stories of people you know and love. And of course, thank you for making your story available on a, to others who need to hear it, right? As, as we say at Kintsugi, thank you for sharing your story so that others can hear your story. It's been terrific. I'm going to put a little tag on saying I was number 1 in the 100.
Guest · 48:27
So yes, please do. Absolutely. We have to, you have to get a photo of the episode to highlight that number 1 status.
You don't have to be in crisis to call.
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