Sarah Pye
Do What You Do Best: Sarah Pye and the Sun Bears of Borneo
Sarah found her life's work when someone told her to do what she already did best.
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Sarah Pye
Sarah found her life's work when someone told her to do what she already did best.
Hear this story
Follow the show
Sarah grew up on a boat. Not a holiday, but a life. Her parents were teachers who decided the world itself was the classroom, so when Sarah turned thirteen, they left England on a 32-foot sailing vessel and taught her through direct encounter with natural systems, tides, weather, and the creatures she met at sea. Those night watches alone, hearing whales surface beside her in the dark, shaped something fundamental in her. Years later, when she stood on an observation platform at the Bornean Sun Bear Conservation Center in 2012 and watched sun bears climb and play in the rain, she felt that same connection return. She asked Dr. Wong Suthee how she could help. His answer was five words: "Do what you do best."
What Sarah does best is communicate. She had already built a boat business in the Whitsunday Islands, written a guidebook for families seeking adventure in Queensland, and worked as a journalist and editor. So she did what Wong suggested. She introduced him to the university where she taught. She led a team of students to create an adoption program that became critical to the center's survival, especially when COVID closed it to the public. When Wong agreed to let her tell his story, she enrolled in a Doctor of Creative Arts degree to learn how to write it properly. The biography, Saving Sun Bears, was published in 2020. Since then, she has written six children's books about Wong's real-life adventures in the jungle, each one filled with animal facts and hands-on experiments designed to spark wonder in eight to twelve-year-olds.
Sarah now runs monthly gatherings for wildlife professionals around the world, because the work is hard and people lose hope. She speaks to schools about conservation. She walks long distances through wild places. And she keeps returning to Borneo. What began with a single question and a simple answer has become her life's work, proof that when someone sees what you are genuinely good at and tells you to use it, everything can change.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses grief & loss, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au • GriefLine: 1300 845 745 · griefline.org.au
“Do what you do best.”
“I was right in the middle of it. So I was super aware that my existence was at the whim of nature, really.”
“Somehow you've got to generate that hope. The antidote to grief is hope.”
The hero, today
Sarah's childhood on a boat, learning from the world around her rather than formal schooling, gave her a direct connection to natural systems and animals that shaped everything that came after. When Dr. Wong told her to 'do what you do best,' he gave her a frame that let her use her skills as a communicator to contribute to conservation over the next thirteen years and beyond. Storytelling is how scientists and conservationists can reach people; most scientists are not trained in communication for a wider audience, but stories have been how humans connect with each other since ancient times. Sarah writes children's books with hands-on experiments because different children connect with learning in different ways, and wonder about animals is what builds the next generation of people who care. To fight environmental grief and despair, people need to step outside themselves and do something specific, whether that's removing weeds from a creek, volunteering at a sanctuary, or reading stories to grandchildren. Ethical tourism is not about stopping travel; it is about doing research, understanding the impact of where you go and who you support, and choosing to volunteer or walk rather than ride or fly when you can.
Yes. Sarah Pye is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Sarah's childhood on a boat, learning from the world around her rather than formal schooling, gave her a direct connection to natural systems and animals that shaped everything that came after.
When Dr. Wong told her to 'do what you do best,' he gave her a frame that let her use her skills as a communicator to contribute to conservation over the next thirteen years and beyond.
Storytelling is how scientists and conservationists can reach people; most scientists are not trained in communication for a wider audience, but stories have been how humans connect with each other since ancient times.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 00:02
Welcome to another episode of Animals and Us, where we explore and honor the awesomeness of animals and our relationships with them. Today, our guest is Dr. Sarah Pye, author, traveler, and passionate advocate for sun bears. In 2012, a chance meeting in Borneo changed Sarah's life when she was challenged to do what you do best. Today, we find out how that message inspired the rest of Sarah's life. Hello Sarah, and welcome to Animals and Us.
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 00:49
Thank you so much for having me.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 00:51
It's such a pleasure having you, Sarah, and how nice it was to meet you on World Animal Day by, By chance.
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 00:59
I know, that was a bit of synchronicity, wasn't it?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 01:01
Yes, yes, it was. So, yep, thanks for joining us. Let's dive into your story. Can we start with your childhood? You had an amazing childhood. You were born in Gibraltar and you spent your 13— first 13 years in the countryside in the UK, and then you moved on to a boat from 13 onwards and spent your teenagehood on a boat, which sounds absolutely amazing. Can you tell us, tell us about how that opened the door to your wonder and passion for animals?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 01:34
I think it all started when I was very young and my family were sailors. So we sailed during the summer, we sailed every single Sunday, you know? So I was in nature all the time sailing in and my parents were teachers. So we spent time on a very small wooden boat on the Norfolk Broads for the most of my upbringing, just sailing from regatta to regatta where my parents and my brothers would compete. So it was in nature pretty much all summer. It was one of those idyllic sort of Swallows and Amazons type of existence. And then when I got to 13, my parents were disillusioned with the English school system. So we moved onto a 32-foot boat and we left England. And My parents became my teachers. Obviously they had the training to do that, but they decided not to do a formal sort of homeschool process. They decided to do it more where we were taught by the world around us. And I think that shaped me so considerably because we would learn from, you know, we'd go shopping in a marketplace and learn culture that way and learn language and currency and things like that that way. But while we were sailing, we were learning so much from the from the animals that we saw, from the ocean, from the tides, from the weather, you know, all those elements that sometimes when people live in a more urban sort of environment, they disconnect so much from natural systems. But I was right in the middle of it. So I was super aware that my existence was at the whim of nature, really. And when we learned from the things around us, we would do things like, like one day we had a bucket and we just dipped it over the side and caught some sargasso weed and pulled it aboard to see who actually lived here, you know, and we found a little crab and we found a little tiny fish and, you know, different things that actually lived at this microcosm of life in the middle of the ocean. So it was all very much hands-on.
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Sarah writes children's books with hands-on experiments because different children connect with learning in different ways, and wonder about animals is what builds the next generation of people who care.
This conversation includes growing up on the water, night watches and whale song, finding the whitsundays, learning to tell stories, adventures with her daughter and a phone call to dr. wong.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 03:39
Oh, wonderful. Do you have any amazing wildlife, a memory from your childhood of a wildlife encounter that has stayed with you?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 03:49
Oh, so many. I had a bit of an affinity with dolphins, and my dad used to get a little bit annoyed with me because if we had dolphins playing around the boat, I would basically announce I was jumping overboard and he would have to try and come back and get me. And sometimes when I was running a night watch, my brother and I were only 11 and 13, but we held a 2-hour night watch each night when we were at sea. One of us from 6:00 to 8:00 PM and one of us from 4:00 to 6:00 AM. Those times were just magical for me. Sometimes I was fighting to stay awake, but at other times you were the only person in the entire world. And sometimes at night, I would have a whale just pop up next to me and you'd hear a blow. You know, you didn't even see the animal, but you'd hear a blow, which was incredible. One night watch, I remember having dolphins on the bow and there was actually phosphorescence in the water as well. So there was just trails of phosphorescence and dolphins playing. And it was just me, you know, it was just laid on for my benefit, or at least that's how it felt.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 05:01
What a wonderful, wonderful experience.
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 05:04
Yeah, it was.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 05:06
And later on you ended up— oh, after a time you spent in Hawaii, and then you ended up in Australia's Whitsunday Islands, which of course is where we met. Can you tell us what you were doing in the Whitsundays and what brought you to the Whitsundays, Australia?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 05:24
Yeah, I can. So I actually got degree in hospitality management in California. And then my first job out of uni was in Hawaii, which was absolutely beautiful. And I worked in hotels, but I found it didn't quite fit me as much as being on the water. I also had my boat captain's license. So I started driving boats in Hawaii, whale watch boats. And I loved that. Then my then husband and I flew to Australia because my brother had immigrated to Melbourne and we came to have a look at Australia. And we totally fell in love with this incredible land, you know. We drove from Brisbane up to Cairns and I'm sure you'll appreciate this, but the moment we drove over the Cannonvale Hill and saw Abel Point Marina and the Whitsundays spread out before us, we were just in love, you know. And we went back to Hawaii and tried to find out how we could possibly immigrate. It was really tough because at that time there were 4 people allowed to migrate from an area in the US, which included Alaska, Guam, and Hawaii. 4 people a year. So we thought the chances were pretty much negligible, you know, and we put our pegwaker in anyway. And we knew there was a family of 4 ahead of us who were, you know, in the sort of queue. And unfortunately they didn't get it, but fortunate for us, we did. And yeah, it changed our lives completely because once we moved to the Whitsundays, we were in such a perfect, such a perfect environment for us. We worked in boats for quite some time and then eventually started our own boat business called Ocean Rafting. Yes, which I know very well because it's still going. Yeah, it's still going strongly. It is. We sold it in 2020, uh, 2002, and, um, uh, just after we'd been awarded the, um, and Queensland Tourism Award was the best adventure product, which was very cool. And then And the owners that took over, Jan and Peter, have just built the business extraordinarily well. So it's really lovely. It's sort of my baby, but they've grown it up, you know. It's really, really lovely to see.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 07:37
Yes. Do you have any fond wildlife memories in the Whitsundays?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 07:45
Oh, I loved the wildlife in the Whitsundays. I loved Hill Inlet where, um, I don't know if you still can now, but back then you could wander into the shallows in Hill Inlet and have bat rays surrounding you. And it was in your, you know, you're up to your ankles in water and you're surrounded by rays. And you could go to, yeah, it's still there, good. And you could go up to Blue Pelt Bay and swim, or Manta Ray Bay was my favorite with the resident, there was a resident hump-headed maori wrasse. And when people saw him, he's a huge fish. It's a different a different one now because, you know, what happens with marirats is very cool because when the largest male dies, all the females around them just are on a race to change their sex to become the largest male to take over the dominance of that region. And so, it's a different marirats that lives there now, but it's the same concept. Amazing. Yeah, yeah, I used to love those. And I always used to like the bat rays too on Daydream Island. And, you know, some of those fish that people could have an instant rapport with once they were snorkeling were just, ah, just a delight.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 09:00
Yes, yes, it certainly is. And yeah, later on you, you became a single parent and you studied for a Master's of Communication. What led you down to that, that path of communication?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 09:14
You know, I think I was born to be a communicator and in different ways. Yeah, because my parents were both teachers and I don't think I could get away from it. My grandparents were teachers. My, you know, it was just, it's just a bit in the blood to be a communicator of some form. So I decided at that point to do a journalism degree so that I could work in journalism. And I did that for quite some time. And then, then sort of transitioned to this idea of storytelling more than, more than journalism, journalistic sort of communication, more about, about using storytelling and the power of storytelling to communicate. Yeah, really loved that.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 09:56
Yes. And you turned that into, into a very positive experience as you toured around Queensland in 2009 and wrote a book. Can you tell us about that book? Your first book.
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 10:07
Yeah, so this was my first, my first book was Kids Welcome to Queensland. You know, and I think sometimes that what we choose to do in our lives is all based about what's missing in our own, you know, and at that time I was struggling to have adventures because my daughter was 6. I had a shared 50-50 relationship with her dad where we had to one week on, one week off, which which, you know, tied me to an area and I had to think about how am I going to have adventures, you know, how I can still have adventures. So she and I, um, every time we had a school holiday or half a school holiday, we would hitch up a camper trailer and travel around Queensland trying to find incredible things to do with kids. We gathered, um, reviews that we created for over 1,000 different products throughout Queensland and then cobbled those into a book. A guidebook called Kids Welcome to Queensland. Yeah, so it was our way of keeping our adventure going, even though we were, it was a little bit challenging at that time.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 11:13
So it would have been. And then in 2012, of course, your life changed when—
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 11:20
Oh my goodness, didn't it?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 11:21
You had a trip to Borneo. Can you tell us what happened in Borneo?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 11:27
So yeah, one of those adventures Amber and I had, so she was 12. Do you know what? It's lovely to have a daughter that's born in 2000 because I know how old she is every single minute of the day. It's very easy. So 2012, I was really keen to see orangutans before they became extinct and they are critically endangered. So we went on holiday to Borneo and we saw orangutans and it was wonderful. We saw them, but I didn't have that sort of Jane Goodall connection with orangutans that I'd sort of hoped for. So I went to the reception where we were staying and told them I was a journalist and that I wanted to write at that time I was editor of a children's magazine and, um, I told them I wanted to write this story about the animals in Borneo. So they, they ripped off this little piece of paper and wrote on it, Wong phone number, you know, and they gave me the phone and they gave me the number. And, um, and I put on my best journalistic voice and I picked up the phone and, and called this man called Dr. Wong Suthee, who runs the Bornean Sun Bear Conservation Center. He's basically single-handedly saving a species from extinction. You know, now he's got a whole team, but back then he was a lone warrior, really. He invited us in to see the conservation center he was creating that wasn't open to the public yet. But we stood on the observation platform and we watched some bears climbing, climbing in the trees, swinging in the trees. You know, they were playing in the rain and they were just incredible creatures. So that was my, you know, it became a sort of interspecies connection point, really. I absolutely adored sun bears and I asked Wong how I could help him. He came back with a very powerful 5 words. He said, "Do what you do best," which is, you know, he's a Taoist and a Buddhist and I think it came from his world belief sort of process, those 5 words, but it led me on a journey that I'm still on. You know, so yeah, 13 years and we're still going.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 13:29
Doing what you do best, which is communicating and traveling. Yeah.
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 13:34
Yeah. So I started by introducing him to the University of the Sunshine Coast where I teach. Uh, that led to all sorts of student projects. It led to, um, uh, him actually being awarded a doctorate. It led to all sorts of different things. And then in 2014, I led a team of students that created an adoption program for sun bears that has been pivotal in allowing him to do his work. Most importantly during COVID when the center was closed to the public and he had no means of income really except for the adoption program. And then 2016, I asked him if I could write his story. You know, this communicator thing didn't stop and I asked him if I could write his story. The problem is when he said yes, I really didn't know how to do that. You know, I'd written a book, but it wasn't a narrative. It wasn't, you know, so I had to learn how to do that. So I enrolled in a Doctor of Creative Arts degree and decided to do it that way. That way I had the university behind me. I had supervisors who could help me learn the process. And yeah, it took 4 years.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 14:41
Very clever, very clever way of doing it.
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 14:44
Yeah, yeah, it was. It was really good. It was a suggestion from a friend of mine and it was such a good suggestion because I really felt like I had support. Court through the entire process. So in 2020, Saving Sun Bears was launched, which is the biography of Dr. Wong. Yeah, really, really cool.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 15:04
And what do you see? Obviously, you're obviously a very close friend of Dr. Wong's, and you thoroughly admire— what, what do you, what do you particularly admire about Dr. Wong?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 15:16
I really admire his commitment His charisma. He's not like, you know, some scientists, and I work with a lot of scientists now, but a lot of scientists are not very good at communication. They're not very good at engaging people in their work. And he's incredibly good at that. He's, you know, he's like a Jane Goodall or a David Attenborough sort of a character in Malaysia. Only thing is that he's actually working in his own country. Doing his, you know, actually saving his own country. It's not, one of the things I found in my research was that there's this sort of meme or idea of Westerners going into third world countries and saving the locals from their own disasters when it comes to environmental protection. And yeah, I wanted to get away from that. So he's actually doing that in his own country. And so are thousands of other people. You know, doing it in their own, their own backyard, which is pretty amazing.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 16:17
I think I can see a photo of a sun bear behind you. How, how big are they, Sarah?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 16:23
Right there. How big are they? They're the smallest bears in the world. There's actually 8 bear species in the world and they're the smallest. So they're, if you were to put them in a human context, they'd be about the size of a 10-year-old.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 16:35
Okay.
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 16:35
All right. Yeah. Only about twice as heavy as a 10-year-old.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 16:40
In relation to it, a Dog, to a dog, would it be like a large dog? Like a German Shepherd?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 16:47
Yeah, something like that. Or a Rottweiler or, you know, something like that. Yeah. Yeah. They, um, they are potentially very, very dangerous, um, even though they're small. So not cuddly. You don't cuddle a sun bear. They have incredible claws and their claws are actually attached to the bones in their body, which means that they can climb. They're the most arboreal bear in the world. So they can climb up to 50 meters up a tree and just disappear up in the middle of a tree. It's just extraordinary. Then they sometimes go to sleep there and their limbs all hang down and flop around while they're having a sleep in a tree, which is amazing to watch. They also have another superpower. They have a very, very long tongue. Their tongue is 33 centimeters long, which, yeah, it's pretty amazing. And when I work with kids in schools, they find, they just, you know, they can't imagine how you would ever fit that tongue in your mouth, you know.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 17:39
Yes, about getting tangled.
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 17:41
Yeah, yeah, that's it. Yeah, incredible animals.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 17:46
Yes. So you, in 2010, you, you wrote the book Saving Sun Bears. Why?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 17:53
Actually, 2016 I started, in 2020 it was released.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 17:56
Thank you.
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 17:57
Yeah, that's all right.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 17:59
Can you tell us what— tell us about the book Saving Sun Bears?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 18:04
It's an— it's a narrative, non-fiction narrative biography, so it tells Wong's story, and it's an adventure story of, you know, that follows sort of a general sort of a hero's journey concept where, you know, he had to struggle to learn his craft. He wanted to be a vet. He didn't make good enough grades to get supported by his government. He had to find another way to do it. He went to Taiwan. He was sponsored to study in Taiwan. Where he learned animal husbandry and then found that he didn't want to work in farms. He started working with rescue animals. And once he found that sort of niche, he was doing his doctorate, no, his master's in Montana in the US. And a professor came from Malaysia to do a lecture. And the professor was looking for someone to study sun bears. In Malaysia. Now, he was the only Malaysian student in the entire room, and he felt like this person was just talking to him, you know. So as soon as the, as soon as the lecture was over, he was up at the front. He was up putting his hand up, you know, and he, he then spent 6 years in the jungle studying sun bears for his doctorate, for his master's and his doctorate. And in that time only managed to trap 6 bears because they're very, very few and far between. But he knows more about them than, than probably anyone on earth. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then he wanted to give back. So he got to this point where he wanted to give back and, and, and start the Sun Bear Conservation Center, giving back not just to those people that supported him, but more, more importantly to the bears, you know, to try and keep these bears on earth, which he does now. So, so one of the pillars of his center is to rehabilitate bears as much as possible. Um, I was lucky enough to be able to help him release two bears back into the wild. Which is the last chapter in Saving Sun Bear, and also the focus of the first kids' book that I wrote about his adventures as well.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 20:09
How wonderful. Sarah, the friendship has— your friendship with Dr. Wong has remained over the years, and you even today, you continue going back to Borneo. What's— what do you do?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 20:22
Yeah, I was there last August. Last August was the last time, and Oh, well, no, it wasn't. Last February was the last time because I was actually in, I was working in a school in Brunei. I just tend to forget Brunei is in Borneo because I think of, I think of the jungle as, as Borneo. But yeah, so I've been twice in the last, in the last 14 months or so. I love it. I love it there. Wong and I also run a monthly gathering for wildlife people. So we get together and have a guest speaker. Um, to talk about wildlife issues around the world. So we see each other every month.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 20:59
Can anyone in the public join that group, the wildlife group?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 21:02
Absolutely. We'd love as many wildlife people as would love to be part of it. You know, it's, it's, it's one of the things that I've noticed when I'm working with wildlife people is that, um, it can be a really hard road. Yeah. There's a lot, there's lack of funding, there's lack of support.. And so we have to support each other. I've had some wildlife people that I've known that have committed suicide because they've, you know, so they lose hope. Yeah. So to have, to have that hope and connection with a support network, I think is one of those things that helps people get through.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 21:37
What's the, what's the group called, Sarah, in case anyone in the audience?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 21:40
It's called World of Wildlife. If people wanted to come, then the best bet is to go to my website and sign up for it, and then I'll let them know when the next one is. It takes place on the 10th of every every single month, but we change the time so that we can meet people from around the world in wherever they are. And we, you know, the people in Vancouver don't have to wake up in the middle of the night every single time.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 22:01
Sarah, let's talk about a point that you just raised a moment ago about many people working in the wildlife space becoming distressed and they give up and become depressed about a plight of wildlife. What keeps you going?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 22:24
Hope.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 22:25
What gives you hope?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 22:27
What gives me hope is the next generation. I actually, so after saving sun bears, I started writing children's books about Wong's adventures in the jungle. I've written 6 children's books about his adventures with different species. And I now take those into schools and I do workshops with children around conservation messages. And I am constantly, here we go, there's a couple. I am constantly enlightened by the children that I work with. It's a two-way conversation. And here's a good one for you. I was sitting in Rockhampton shortly after we met. I went to work in a school in Rockhampton and we had a tech problem. So I'm sitting with the kids while the tech's getting sorted out and I'm asking what they know about orangutans. And, you know, one kid says, they're orange. And one of them says, they're a bit like humans. And then one person says, I've heard that they actually use sticks. And they use sticks as tools and they put them down holes and they grab honey and they bring out the honey. And that started this whole conversation about how we define humans versus animals. And I then told them about how last month, month, or a couple of months ago, they actually discovered that orangutans, when they've got a wound, they take medicinal leaves and they chew them into a poultice and they put them on their wound. You know, so, and the kids were just enthralled. But that sort of hope came from this one child that had a really cool fact to share, you know. So I love that. I love that idea that we need to I guess, put a bit more trust in the next generation that they can do, they can do what we haven't. Our generation's not done particularly well at helping the environment. Yes.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 24:20
For those in the audience who, who are feeling very depressed, distressed about the, the plight of, of wildlife and, and of course other animals on our planet, what advice would you offer to, to help them feel better?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 24:36
I think somehow you've got to generate that hope. There's a book by Lesley Head called Hope and Grief in the Anthropocene, which is really interesting. She identifies this inertia that we've created from our grief, our environmental grief, and then identifies that the antidote to grief is hope. So somehow the way to find hope, I think, is to step outside yourself, to help something else, you know, something outside of you, whether it be help remove weeds from a creek near you, whether it's, you know, become a wildlife carer, whether it just be reading stories about animals to kids because you happen to have grandkids that, you know, it doesn't matter what you do. I think every single person has an effect on the on the world, as, as, um, someone we both admire, Jane Goodall, said, you know. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, let's just do something. Do something. If everyone does something, we're, we're, we're going to move forward, aren't we?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 25:45
Yes, yes, absolutely. Rather than being, being stuck and apathetic and putting your head in the sand, take action. Even as Jane used to say, Even, even small, every, every day we can make a difference with, with small, with small acts of kindness.
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 26:02
Yeah. Yeah, we can. So it's more about taking the pressure off yourself and just becoming a, becoming a part of, of that global movement of people that care, you know? Yes.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 26:15
Sarah, while we're still on the subject of your Wong series.
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 26:20
Yeah. Yeah.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 26:21
The books are written for, for 8 8 to 12-year-olds?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 26:24
8 to 12, yeah. And yeah, I, I wrote them for that age because I, I noticed that a dearth of, um, of non-fiction narratives, um, for children in that space. There's a lot of fiction, you know, and a lot of kids don't like fiction. They actually prefer to have something that's a little bit more real. So each of these books has a non-fiction narrative about Wong and his real-life adventures, and then it has a section with cool animal facts that they can use for school projects and whatever, those sort of things. And then there's experiments because everybody has a different way of connecting, you know, or, you know, to reading, to adventures, to experiences. So those experiments then link back to the story in a kinetic sort of a sense.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 27:08
What do you mean by experiments? Can you give us an example?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 27:12
Yeah. In Wildlife Wong and the Orangutan, there's an experiment whether can a child build an orangutan nest. So get all the rubbish from their garden or, you know, in their schoolyard, they talk to the gardener there and they try and build a nest and see if they can actually do as well as an orangutan. Or there's one in Wildlife Wong and the Fig Wasp, which teaches kids how a rainforest works and how a rainforest works without without the need for human interaction, you know. It's, uh, so they learn a bit about how that works and then they build a terrarium or a rainforest in a jar, basically, which they never have to open again because it's this closed, uh, circular system, you know. The oldest terrarium in the world was built in 1960, um, and it's still going. It's pretty amazing stuff. So that's, yeah, that's probably one of the workshops I do that's the most sought after because it really sort of encapsulates that concept quite well.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 28:17
Sarah, can you share a couple of fun facts with us about wildlife which you shared to children and really surprised the children?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 28:26
Yeah, absolutely. So I'm going to sort of bring you forward to my newest book. That's this one, Curious Kai Asks Why, because that's sort of what I'm doing in that. This is about a young girl who travels around Queensland. So I've I'm coming back to Australia now and this young girl has endless quirky questions about wildlife. So she and her mum hook up their camper and they go around Queensland meeting real scientists that can answer her quirky questions. So some of her questions I actually use in workshops now to spark discussions, you know, are bats rats with wings or birds with fur? You know, that's kind of a cute thing. So if we discuss that with kids, then they compare these different species and they come up with what they think. And then they learn that a bat is the only flying mammal in the world, which makes them incredibly special, you know. And hopefully that means that people love bats more than they currently do, you know.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 29:29
Yeah, poor bats are often vilified, aren't they? And misunderstood.
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 29:35
Actually, yeah, there's another, another story I want to tell you about a cassowary that Curious Kai learned. So she spent time in North Queensland with Graham Lorison, who is the chief cassowary vet in Australia. He has personally cared for over 1,000 cassowaries. He knows a lot about them. And one thing that Graham taught Curious Kai is that, um, she asked him, what's the point of feathers if you can't fly? Yeah. And he told her how cassowaries use their feathers. So the first thing is that their feathers are quite coarse. So when they walk through the rainforest and, you know, they get a wai-a-wai vine taps, grabs them or tries to grab them, it won't catch them. So it's like a barrier, safety barrier for them, which is one thing they use them for. But the most interesting thing is that cassowaries use their feathers for fishing. This is so cool. So yeah, Graham has seen a cassowary sit down in a shallow, shallow water pool in the dry season and submerge its body and sit really, really, really still and then fluff up its feathers. And it sits there really, really quietly. And all of a sudden he saw it. Snap its wings closed, stand up, get out to the bank, and then shake like a dog and just, yeah, just send little critters and yabbies and shrimp all over the place and then just spend the next 5 minutes eating.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 31:06
But the feathers are really like nests. Nets, sorry, nets.
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 31:11
Nets, absolutely. Isn't it incredible? Yeah, there's so many wonderful things that wildlife do that we don't know and we can learn from. So I think that's what I'm trying to do with this new series, Curious Kai, is to put the wonder back in wildlife, really.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 31:30
Yes. From your academic research to classrooms, what have you learned about the importance of translating science into storytelling?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 31:43
I think it started with my doctorate. So with my doctorate, I had to do, I did wrote Saving Sunbeds, but I also had to do a thesis around that. So one of the things I explored was storytelling in a science sense. And I discovered that most scientists are not particularly good at communication unless it's in an academic journal. And really just, you know, this other sort of communicating for a wider audience is not something that most scientists do. Yeah. So I learned the power then, the power of storytelling. It's an ancient art. Yeah. We've been telling stories to help people connect with things for eons, indigenous cultures more than most. And, um, and there's such a power. There's such a power in that, I think. Yes.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 32:32
And Sarah, you have a background in tourism as well.
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 32:37
Um, I do. Yeah.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 32:38
What, what have you noticed or learned about the importance of ethical tourism for people like yourself who love wildlife and adventure and want to travel the world with having animal encounters? What advice can you offer about—
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 32:53
I think tourism is a two-edged sword, isn't it? Because tourism is responsible for the majority of carbon emissions through flights. Yeah. So if we're going to fly places, then it behooves us to actually think about the impact that we're having both on those flights and in the subsequent tours that we might be doing. So ethical tourism and responsible tourism, I think, is the future. And if we don't embrace that, then our species is eventually going to be the one that goes extinct if we don't listen to nature. So I really hate to tell people not to travel because because traveling has, it opens our eyes and it teaches us so much. But I think we need to think more about our travel. For instance, we can embrace volunteer tourism. You know, we can embrace low impact, low footprint type tourism. Like I do a lot of long distance walking and that's quite low on its impact, you know, so you can do something like that. You can volunteer at the Sun Bear Center and help take care of bears or take care of orangutans and those sort of things that are actually helping really valuable organizations stay afloat. And they in turn then help the communities that they're immersed in, you know, like for instance, the Sun Bear Center has, oh, what is it now? I think about 30, 35 employees. Many of those are people that in the past would've had to earn a living from poaching. You know, that they, they don't have to poach anymore. They could now work in tourism and they can now actually see, see animals in the, in the wildlife as a, as a different form of economic benefit.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 34:49
Yes. So for, for a traveler, say for, for example, a traveler coming from Australia and they go to an, an Asian country for some animal, animal encounters, what should they look out for? If they want to travel responsibly and what should they avoid?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 35:08
Definitely avoid anything that seems to be to the detriment of the animal. You know, things like elephant rides and things like that. I think it takes time, but doing some research into the organizations that are involved in any tour and not just trusting the tour organization, but actually doing some individual research into the organizations that they use to deliver their product. It takes time, but it's worth it, isn't it? You know, so we've got to be responsible. We've got to be aware as tourism. We, you know, it's no longer applicable to say I didn't know because the internet is there. We have the ability to learn everything that we need to know. We can't be in the dark anymore.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 35:54
Yes.
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 35:55
Yeah.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 35:55
So research, some conscientious research.
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 35:58
Yeah, definitely research and find out. You know, you've got, you've got reviews from other travelers. You've got, you can see an organization and whether they've won environmental awards. You can, you know, there's all sorts of different markers that you can research. Yes, yes, good advice.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 36:17
And Sarah, it sounds like you've had an absolutely wonderful life. Lots of travel, lots of adventures, lots of amazing animal encounters. Do you have—
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 36:25
I'm lucky, aren't I? Yes.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 36:27
Oh, you've created a wonderful life for yourself. Sarah, is there a highlight? Is there one cherished, cherished moment with an animal, with an animal encounter that you will cherish forever?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 36:44
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. The experience of helping Wong release two rescued sun bears back into the wild was my Jane Goodall moment, you know. It was, what we did is we put these two sun bears into small translocation cages and we put them in the back of a of a ute and we drove them all through the night across Borneo to the edge of this wildlife park called Tarbin Wildlife Park. It's twice as big as Singapore. And then we were met by a helicopter there. We put the translocation cages in a cargo net, strung it under this helicopter and flew over the rainforest, which looked like broccoli. You look down and it's just like flying over broccoli. And we landed on a mud volcano. Seriously, it's the only bald patch in the middle the rainforest is this mud volcano. So we land on the mud volcano and I stepped out of the helicopter into an elephant footprint, you know, because elephants go to this mud volcano to lick salt, you know, it's very cool stuff. And then we had to lift the cage and put it under the trees so it was in a bit of protection and get as far away from this cage as possible. Wong had a little rope and he's ready to open the door. And the funny thing was, as soon as he opened that door, I was standing way back with one of the women that had actually taught this sun bear how to climb and how to feed. And when the sun bear came out, this woman giggled and the sun bear turned around and ran towards us. So we had to do an about-turn and run as fast as we could away from the sun bear. Was that for your safety or because you didn't want to get—
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 38:29
For our safety. To be dependent of a satellite.
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 38:34
Absolutely, for our safety. So it wasn't, you know, there I was thinking, okay, sun bear's gone, we're gonna probably open a bottle of champagne and toast this adventure, but you forget that there were two wild sun bears in the area. So we packed up as quick as we could, got back in the helicopter. Yeah, it was an incredible moment and it made the, well, the decade before it, worthwhile.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 39:00
Oh, I can imagine it would be a wonderful moment. Are there any messages, Sarah, that you would like to leave our audience after the podcast is over? What are some messages that you'd like people, you'd like to stick with our audience?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 39:16
You know, I don't think I can do it any better than Wong did. You know, he hooked me into 13 years' worth of work by saying, do what you do best. You know, so I think that's just so powerful because for First people have to identify what is it, what is it they're good at and how can they harness that skill to actually be a positive force in the world rather than a negative one, you know. So yeah, I would like to leave people with that question. Yeah. And do what you do best for wildlife.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 39:50
Thank you, Sarah. And Sarah, how can people find your books?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 39:56
Probably, um, well, they can get my books through any bookshop in Australia. They can get them, they can request it at their library if they don't want to buy a copy, or they can go to my website and purchase anything there if they'd like to as well. And I'll send it to them. I'll even sign it if they do it that way. So that's at sarahrpye.com.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 40:17
Sarah R. Pye dot com. And Sarah P-Y-E. And yeah. Finally, if people would like to support the Bornean Sun Bear Conservation Center, how can they do so?
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 40:31
Yes, they can do that too. And they can adopt a sun bear. So they actually help with, you know, help keep a sun bear in food for a year would be brilliant. That will cost you about $100 Australian for a year and you get a certificate and you get updates on your sun bear and all that sort of thing. That's very cool. You could even just buy them a jar of honey or some medicine. As you would for, you know, UNICEF or Médecins Sans Frontières, that sort of a thing. If you'd like to do that, then the website is bsbcc.org.my for Malaysia.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 41:08
Wonderful. Sarah, it's been such a pleasure and your enthusiasm for wildlife is infectious. So thank you very much for your time.
Sarah Pye (Guest) · 41:17
Oh, it's been such a delight. Thank you. Thank you so much. I hope I'll see you again soon.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 41:21
Yes, no doubt we will. Thanks, Sarah. Bye-bye. Animals and Us is a production of Kintsugi Heroes. Thank you to Xavier Rudd for his permission to use Follow the Sun as our theme music for this series. If you enjoyed this conversation, share the podcast with a friend and let us know by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to support Kintsugi Heroes and the stories we share, head to Kintsugiheroes.com.au and follow the instructions to make a tax-deductible donation. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.
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