Scotty Schindler · 45 min
Scotty Schindler retired at 46 after building a tech empire from scratch, but the real story is the six years of failure, a narcissistic boss, a dot-com crash, and a Supreme Court lawsuit that forged him into who he is today.
Hear this story
People see Scotty Schindler as lucky. He left corporate work at 46 and never had to work again. What they don't see is the six years of failure, a narcissistic boss, a tech crash, repeated rejection, a partnership that ended in a Supreme Court lawsuit, and nights spent compiling evidence he knew would prove his innocence. This is the story of what happened in those years, and what it cost to come through them.
In 1999, after nine years in insurance, Scotty hit a breaking point with a senior manager whose manipulation made staying impossible. He quit to start his own business. Within months, the tech bubble burst. He lost confidence, thinking he'd made a terrible mistake. In early 2001, he applied for jobs to fall back on but got no interviews, no responses, nothing. That rejection forced him to keep trying with his business instead. He bought two programming books, taught himself, and by September had created software three different markets wanted. For the next 18 months he sold door to door, building his real estate software company, Renet, into something that worked.
Then came the partnership that turned to court. By 2005, a friend he'd partnered with to build what could have been an Amazon Web Services equivalent was suing him instead, claiming damages that weren't real. For six months, Scotty gathered evidence alone, lost sleep, faced a community that assumed he was guilty, but never buckled. When it reached the Supreme Court of New South Wales, his friend backed down. Scotty paid $15,000 for a company worth far more, and walked away.
Scotty traces his ability to handle all of this back to high school, when he was ADHD before anyone had a name for it, when kids didn't want to sit with him. He learned then to go inward, stay determined, and keep moving. Every disadvantage, he says, carries a seed of equal or greater advantage. You have to find it yourself. The meaning of the hardship doesn't show up during the hardship. It comes later, when you look back and understand why it had to happen.
“every disadvantage has a seat of equal or greater advantage but we have to find it”
“you don't stop you let that adversity steer you and you keep persisting for your long-term goals of what it is that you really want to achieve”
“I'm so lucky I went through a lawsuit but you know I'm so glad I went through that because nothing else after that was ever as bad as that”
The hero, today
Every disadvantage carries a seed of equal or greater advantage, but you have to find it yourself rather than waiting for someone to point it out. Scotty was rejected for every job he applied for in 2001, which forced him to keep building his business instead of taking a paycheck and giving up. The lawsuit in 2005 and 2006, which felt like the worst thing at the time, became the best thing because after surviving that, no other business problem ever felt as bad. People who succeed have the ability to look at what is happening and ask how to turn it into a benefit or a complete advantage, rather than dwelling on the negative. The lesson and the meaning of the hardship do not reveal themselves during the hardship itself, but a year or three years later, when you look back and understand why it had to happen.
Yes. Scotty Schindler is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Every disadvantage carries a seed of equal or greater advantage, but you have to find it yourself rather than waiting for someone to point it out.
Scotty was rejected for every job he applied for in 2001, which forced him to keep building his business instead of taking a paycheck and giving up.
The lawsuit in 2005 and 2006, which felt like the worst thing at the time, became the best thing because after surviving that, no other business problem ever felt as bad.
People who succeed have the ability to look at what is happening and ask how to turn it into a benefit or a complete advantage, rather than dwelling on the negative.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 00:07
Welcome to the Kintsugi Heroes podcast, where we share inspirational stories of everyday people going through different challenges and how they overcome them. Please be aware that the story you're about to hear may have moments of deeply felt emotions and personal experiences. If anything you hear has a triggering effect please reach out to someone who can help keep you safe. If you love this conversation, we'd love you to like and share it with your friends so we can continue to share more inspiration and hope to as many people as possible. Now listen up for our next hero story. So when Scotty Schindler first started talking in our conversation, I just got hit with this burst of optimism. Optimism and positivity. And I realized, here is someone that just loves life and will do whatever it takes, and he's always positive, and he sees that the glass is half full all the time. He's been very successful in his career, and he talks about that journey. Whilst some might look at him and say, wow, look how well he's done, it hasn't come without challenges and adversity. And he talks about that in this conversation, where just because you might be more wealthy than others or have had a level of success in business, it doesn't come without challenges. It doesn't just happen naturally. And Scotty's story highlights that, and he talks about what he did and how he got through it. And now what he does is, is he helps others. Scott is a beautiful man, heart of gold, wears his heart on his sleeve. There's just a lot to be gained from hearing Scott's story. Knowing that everybody goes through stuff, even the people that are super successful and seemingly have it all. And it's how you approach it that matters, and Scott demonstrates that brilliantly. Enjoy it, it's a good one. Oh, here we are, it is another episode. I'm so excited, I've got Scotty with me today. Scotty Schindler, welcome! To Consumer Heroes. How are you doing?
Scotty Schindler (Guest) · 02:22
Ah, I'm doing very well, thank you. Uh, it's been such an awesome summer.
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This conversation includes the luck no one sees, working for a narcissist, the seed hidden in disadvantage, starting a business into a crash, the rejection that kept him going and books that changed the path.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 02:27
Good to hear. And thank you for joining us and joining me in particular to share your story. I mean, sharing stories can be difficult, especially when we need to go into the detail, and I just want to honor you and thank you for, you know, putting your hand up to share your challenge and adversity to help others.
Scotty Schindler (Guest) · 02:47
No problems at all.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 02:49
You're— by the way, for those that are listening to the audio, I have to tell you that Scotty's got the biggest smile and he just radiates this joy. He's got a massive smile. So here we are smiling our faces off and we're about to go into a story of challenge. And of course, I don't know your story, so that's what I also love. You know, every guest that comes on, I don't know what your story is about, so this is about you. I'm gonna hand over to you now, Scotty. Take us back to the beginning. Where does your story start? What happened? And take us through the journey.
Scotty Schindler (Guest) · 03:21
So who's Scotty, right? So what a lot of people see today is, is Scotty Schindler, who had a startup company, went entrepreneurial journey, retired early. He's so lucky. And that's the Scotty people see today. And to, to be honest with you, it's true. I am lucky. I'm lucky that I did actually go through that journey. And come out the other end with success, depending what your definition of success is. Well, I achieved more than I ever thought I could. And since the age of 46, I've never had to work again. So I'm pretty lucky, right? So I'm actually celebrating 5-year anniversary at the moment of retirement. So I'm pretty lucky, which is what people see. But what they don't see is what I went through. And everyone has this story, right? Everyone's got a backstory. Everyone's got adversity, like every single person you talk to. No one is ever, you know, kissed on the bum by an angel and just gets a free ride in life. Everyone has to do some work. Everyone has to have paid the price. To win the game, you have to play the game. And part of playing the game is losing from time to time and going through adversity. And I certainly had my fair share of that. So you said, where does it begin? And going right back to the beginning, I don't know that I want to go back to being a kid growing up in poverty. I won't go back that far. What I might do though is start from the business journey because what I do a lot of now is, I guess, motivating and inspiring people to go on the same sort of journey and to pay the price, if you like, and to get, you know, bring out that inner grit and determination to achieve what it is people want to achieve. So is it okay if I start somewhere around the business journey, which is at the turn of the century? And man, that sounds like a long time ago. It's a long time ago. So the turn of the century, you know, 1999. So as I came into 1999, I'd been working for an insurance company for 9 years. So I started in 1990, but that last year at that business, there was a guy that I'll call a narcissist. Okay. So there was a guy in senior management and we just didn't get along and I had to report to them. So I was quite senior myself and he was a narcissist. And it was, it was a year of, of torture and hell, you know. So if you got someone who's controlling you or manipulating, or manipulating others to control you in a negative way, and it really started in 1987, '88, sorry, 1997, '98, and then into '99, I exploded, right? So I went through a bit of a midlife crisis, but worked for that narcissist, you know. It was a really horrible time, but in hindsight, it was probably also the best thing that could ever happen because I decided that I was going to quit my job and have a go on my own. I said, well, what am I even doing here? I'm 10 years now in this business. So when I left, I was 10 years, but I was, you know, I'm building up a business for someone else.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 06:09
Why?
Scotty Schindler (Guest) · 06:10
If I'm any good, if I really am any good, I should be able to create a business on my own. And if it hadn't been for that narcissist, who knows, I might have got a senior management job. I might have got a promotion. I might have been running the company by now. Or I could have just been miserable for the next 10 years. I really don't know. A crystal ball is an amazing thing. But through that adversity, it made me realize, no, I want to have a go on my own. And I was probably lucky. You know, a lot of people say I was lucky with Renet, but I was probably lucky for that guy because if it hadn't been for that guy, I never would have got on the journey to start a business of my own. See, it's funny how some of these situations in life, like there's Every seed of disadvantage— sorry, every disadvantage has a seed of equal or greater advantage, but we have to find it. No one's going to come along and say, hey Scotty, look, I know you're going through a rough time, here's a free ride. You might get people help you and support you and be in your corner, but generally speaking, we have to find those advantages and we have to find those benefits and we have to turn the situation around. And you know what, mostly if you talk to any Olympians when they've broken the leg or they've had an injury, you know, 4 years out from the Olympics or 6 years out from the Olympics, that's what made them stronger and better in the first place, was because something went wrong, they came back with more determination and more grit than they ever had before. This time they're not going to mess it up. This time they're going to do more. So because of that, I just— because of the adversity I was going through with this horrible time with this narcissist that was manipulating everything around me, and it might have been perceived, but it certainly felt like it, I decided to leave that company and start on my own. And a lot of people say I was lucky. I was lucky to go on that journey with Renet. Well, after I started, I left the insurance business and decided to start on my own. You know, at first it was all right. And then what happened was in March, April 2000, so straight after the turn of the century. Now, most people won't remember this, but there was a big technology crash, as in the stock market. Anything that had an I in it or an E in it, like, you know, any sort of buzzy Internet name, the whole internet thing really lost its flavor. Before the 2000 mark, it was like, oh, this internet is the next big bubble. It's the next— it wasn't even around at the time, but Bitcoin, you know, it was, it was the next big thing, and it really was. But then after 2000, it all crashed. For example, the shares in Amazon before the crash were 95 cents each. After the crash, the shares in Amazon were 5 cents. And not so long ago, they've done a split now, but not so long ago, the shares were $2,300 each. So to give you an idea how much it crashed at the time, the internet was no longer a good thing to be in. In fact, here I just left the insurance business, decided to start a business on my own, decided to get into IT, and bang, this big technology crash happened. So I started to lose a lot of confidence. I thought, well, maybe all the Murdochs of the world and the Kerry Packers of the world are actually correct. Because they all said that this internet thingy is not going to last. I've gone, I've just left the 10-year job. I've left a narcissist. Now I'm jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. I've gone, man, what a mistake. Anyway, I persisted with that. I did persist with that and I decided to keep going, even if I just started a business on my own and website design and things like that. So, you know, it was a bit of a tough time. And through that year, the interesting thing was, you know, I had a few clients, I got a few sales, I made a little bit of money, but not a lot of money, enough to buy more software and learn more things. I lost a lot of confidence and, you know, the wife wasn't real happy. I'm just sitting around playing on computers all night, learning things, right? In fact, I was programming and learning website design the night Google got listed on the stock market. And I went, gee, they'd be good shares. I think that's not a bad company. Turns out I was right, but I had no money at the time, so I couldn't buy some of their shares when they publicly listed. Anyway, I'd lost a lot of confidence, and this goes back into everyone says I'm lucky today, but you know, what happened at the start of 2001 was I thought, well, you know, I've left my job, I'm now a year out, I've really got no traction at starting a business here, I'm, I'm, I'm going to give up basically. I, I obviously am not going to be good enough to start a business. I'd failed twice in that year. Maybe 3 times depending how you look at it, at trying to start a business and I just didn't really get traction or I didn't like them and it was a bit tough, right? So I decided at the start of 2001 to start looking for work. I thought I have to get a job. You know, I kept the wife happy. I had a 2-year-old son and I've gone, I have responsibilities, you know, and blah, blah, blah. I was pretty lucky because financially we paid off a house. So I didn't owe any money on a house. It was being rented out, but we were living in with the in-laws. So, you know, so it was, I wasn't going broke, but it really wasn't providing. So I decided to go looking for work is what happened. But you know what happened? The thing is, not only did I not get a job, so I applied for all these sales jobs, I applied for management jobs, just like I'd been doing for 10 years in the insurance business. And not only did I not get a job, I didn't even get a job interview. And I've gone, whoa, that's not really a good sign. Like I still to this day never got anyone respond to any of the job applications I put in. And I thought, wow, that's pretty— I thought I was actually pretty good. I thought they'd be going, oh, there's Scotty, 10 years experience, he's won all these sales awards, he was an international sales manager. He's like, oh sweet, let's get this guy in, no worries. And I thought I had that to fall back on. Turns out I didn't. No one cared. But anyway, what happened was because of that, I thought, wow, I better keep going on this whole trying to start a business thing, right? And I decided then on the— I went to the Gold Coast in May 2001 and bought 2 books on online programming, which we now called cloud computing or software as a service, you know, all these common terms around. This was before all this stuff. And I bought two books on programming. But see, if I hadn't have, if I hadn't have, well, let me revert. If I had have got a job, guess where I'd be now? I'd still be working for someone. I'm so lucky that I didn't get a job because if I had have got a job, I wouldn't have bought the books and I wouldn't have started creating some online programs because by September I had some product that people wanted. So I gave 3 attempts. I did an accommodation website, I did a real estate website, and I did a car dealer website. So I did 3 different solutions for online. And as we know, all 3 worked well. In the end, I stuck with real estate because I was self-taught. It was like I had traction there. People were buying. I thought, well, I'll just stick to this real estate stuff. So what happened was, you know, because of that not getting a job, because of having to find, okay, persist with this sort of thing, I ended up buying these books, ended up writing this software. And in February 2002, I started the company called Renet, which was a bit of a play on words, re-net for real estate network, or I was re-netting people's websites. So I thought, well, you know, if it doesn't work, the real estate stuff, you know, this whole internet thingy might not last, but they'll probably still want websites. So maybe I re-net their websites because I'm into duplication, you know, one-to-many solutions, not just one-to-one solutions. So anyway, if it hadn't have been for the narcissist who made me want to quit my job, if it hadn't have been for not getting an interview or not getting any job, I never would have got to that point of starting Renap, you know. So I've now gone 2 years, if not 3 or 4 depending on how you look at it, of years of hell, you know, from the narcissist, from, you know, 1998, 1999, quitting my job, trying to find work, trying to start a business. Finally getting some software. I'm now 4 years down in this journey of the midlife crisis, right, of thinking, well, I'm really not that good, am I? And I was turning 30 at the time. So, you know, in 2001, I was turning 30 and feeling like a complete failure. So things weren't that good. Although looking back, I was pretty young, but still, I thought maybe as a 30-year-old I could have a career and be set up and maybe, you know, established a little bit and things like that. But anyway, it worked. So basically what I did then was because of everything went wrong, then I then turned around and I had a business and I started building the business just like I did in the insurance days. I went door knocking, I went selling to the real estate agents, knocking on their doors. And I door knocked for a full 18 months. In September 2003 was the last time I door knocked. So lucky for me, through that 10 years of, you know, business to business selling insurance, I knew how to go into someone. Have a constructive conversation and walk out with a check.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 14:46
Yeah.
Scotty Schindler (Guest) · 14:46
So I started making like $1,000 in the morning, $1,000 in the afternoon. It was great. I was getting 2 sales. I was getting a strike rate of 1 in every 2. So every second person I spoke to, I'd get a deal. So I ended up starting a business that started working. I'd go in and go, wow, man, this is so much easier and more satisfying than selling insurance. I mean, this is awesome. I still had to do the work. I still had to build a website and all that. So I started hiring a team. So in April 2003 was I started hiring people. I couldn't do it on my own anymore. It was impossible. So I hired 2 staff at the start of 2003. I stopped knocking on doors in September 2003, and I really had a company. So that whole journey, if you look at that chronologically, was nearly 6 years, or from when I left the job, it was 4 years. So each of those journeys took a long time on their own, but the reality is that whole phase of that took a little while to actually unfold, which is why I spend a lot of time now motivating people. In that journey, by the way, in that 2 years between 2000 and 2002, call it that, that 100 weeks where I left the job and then I started Renet, it was almost 100 weeks that journey. I left in March 2000 and February 2002 was when I started that company. I realized I actually had something, but I had 6 attempts in that journey too. So I'm lucky that I had 6 attempts. I'm lucky I tried. So I tried to do the first year, I tried to do networking and things like that. So which is like computer networking, computers talking to computers, peer-to-peer was pretty simple stuff back then. But still, in the first job I went to, first job I went to, I decided there and there, I wasn't going to be a computer network engineer.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 16:27
Not a chance.
Scotty Schindler (Guest) · 16:27
I just didn't like it. I felt like a mechanic didn't suit what I wanted to do. I wanted to work smarter, not harder. And it really made me feel like a mechanic and I went, I'm not doing that. So I failed at that business on the very first client after learning and studying, but that actually stayed with me forever. So when I started my company, I was doing all my own networking. I was doing all my own computers. I didn't have to pay or outsource anyone. Not that I was an expert at it, but I knew what I was doing for my business and that's all I needed. I didn't need to be an expert. I started a business called MediCab was the first one that was actually in March 2000. And that lasted for 3 months and that failed because the business partner wasn't doing anything. So we had this idea, he had the name Medicab, I had the business and sales acumen. We found a couple of website designers. We got together, the 4 of us, the 3 of us did all our work and the other guy did nothing. And I thought, well, this isn't gonna work. So that failed as my first attempt. So chronologically, it was the Medicab, then it was the networking, and then I tried to do online portals and that didn't work. And that's when I started looking for those jobs in 2001. And then I did the, the tree, if you like, real estate, car dealers, and accommodation. And the, the car dealers and accommodation actually did get traction, so they didn't necessarily fail. In fact, I had some of those clients for nearly 10 years. They stayed with us for a long time. They kept on paying. It was great. Uh, and I did no more work on the software, so it was, it was a pretty good outcome. They didn't necessarily fail, but at the same time, it took 6 attempts over 2 years to get one of them to work. And that was the renet one, the real estate software. So I'm lucky that I went through the narcissism, lucky I went through not getting a job, and then things were working. So I had a company. So as I moved into 2004, I actually had a company. Um, what happened though, you talk about smooth sailing, it's like, okay, you start the company renet, but that's just the beginning of it. Not, you know, that wasn't the end, that was the beginning, right? But things, things were really working and things were going really well and I had the ability to sell and I was getting traction. I had a good name in the industry and some people call me a trailblazer, but at the time I didn't feel like a trailblazer in the industry. And I actually, when I first started in business, I had no money. So I did a collaboration with someone and we actually shared, he had an ISP. So, and this relationship should have been really good, but it failed miserably in the end. And I'll just give a quick backstory on it. But once again, it was the best thing that ever happened to me, probably the reason why I've got no hair anymore. It failed miserably, but at the same time it was really good. So it started really good and it should have ended successfully, but for some reason it didn't. Um, you're going to like the end of this story. But anyway, so what I decided was I was doing all this online stuff, and call it, as we know nowadays, it's called cloud storage. Okay, because I was doing all this online software as a service And I went to a friend of mine in 2000 and said, look, I'm not making any money, but I'm doing all these websites. Let's have a collaboration. So you host the websites, but you give me hosting for free for my staff, but you can make the money out of the hosting collaboration. Win-win-win. Perfect system. And that worked for 3 years. But once the Renet business got going, I needed bigger servers. I needed more capacity. So I went to him and said, ah, look, either I start my own business up in this server space or we go into a company together and improve the services and invest some money into this business, right? So in 2003, we decided to go into business together and merge everything. Not so much his business, his and my businesses stay separate, but the merging of the clients in the middle. So we started a new company called Advanced Business Internet Solutions, ABIS, not important what it was called. If you want to, if you want to know what that business is like today, it's actually Amazon Web Services. So way back at the beginning, I was trying to do Amazon Web Services, not knowing it was called Amazon Web Services, but basically exactly the same journey, which is a shame because we were on such a big trajectory to make this work. But anyway, what happened was 3 years later, at the end of 2005, for nearly 3 years, it wasn't working again. There was no investment. You didn't want to invest, blah, blah, blah. There were some other things that weren't right. And I said to him, look, I gotta get out of this business. I go, we can't, I cannot continue to grow Renet with the servers and the infrastructure not supporting it. You know, this is still before it was called cloud. Cloud sort of came out 2007, 2008 as a popular term. So basically I've gone, well, I can't do it anymore. But instead of us going, well, let's have a business divorce, let's separate, let's go halves, blah, blah, blah. He actually turned around and tried to sue me instead. For 6 years worth of effort and damages and time and everything else. Sorry for the interruption. This is Ian Westmoreland, the founder of Katsuki Heroes, and thank you for listening to this story from one of our amazing heroes. Our mission is for these stories to provide hope and inspiration to people experiencing life challenges and to also educate the broader community on how best to provide support. If you would like to to help us to continue to produce more hero stories and cover more adversity themes, we would welcome all donations. These can be made via our website, kintsugiheroes.com.au. The donate function is at the bottom of the homepage. We'd also welcome any feedback. You can email me direct using ian@kintsugiheroes.com.au. Now let's get back to story, which was— which at the time was like, what the hell? I mean, that's just not true. So he made up this story, which I was lucky he did, because if it had been true, then it would have been different. But he made up this story, he tried to take me to court, he took me to the Supreme Court of New South Wales in the end, although I checkmated him when he did that, but that's another story. So basically, over that 6 months, I've gone from, hang on a minute, this last now 8 years of journey started 2006, or this 6 years of journey, or these 4 years, or 2 years, depending how you look at it all, is all about to come crashing down because all my business was on this server that we were arguing over. Bit like kids in a divorce, right? It was just like this server was the kids, and it was just this full argument. It was a terrible time. Like I said, there was nights where I actually didn't sleep for a whole 2 nights just compiling information and getting it all ready. Anyway, it didn't work. He didn't win, but it didn't stop him doing it. It didn't stop the stress of it. In the end, I actually got the company, so it was pretty good. For $15,000, I got the company that was making $100,000 a year. But what it did do, unfortunately, we could have had, we could have had, if he'd have just been a bit more proactive or a bit more entrepreneurial or whatever, we could have actually had the Amazon Web Services too, right? Or something like that. Even if we weren't Amazon, we were on a trajectory to be one of those services which became really popular. Like 4 years later. So anyway, long story short was through that, I ended up obviously then getting that company merged into my company. And I've never ever had a problem because of that adversity, because of someone taking me to court, because of going through the solicitors and barristers. My ability to be able to handle adverse situations from then on in was so much better. It was probably the best thing that ever happened to me in business. Because nothing after that was a problem. Nothing. There was no other issues about anything. It freaked me out, don't get me wrong. I never ever want to go through that again. But my ability to be able to look at everything else after that was like, oh, that's easy, that's not even a problem. No one's trying to sue me over that. Let's just deal with it and move on. So we did. It was so easy. But the situation at the time was a real— like I said, it's probably one of the reasons why I don't have any hair anymore. Apart from running the company and the teams and clients and all that good stuff that comes with running a business, that was the single moment alone that caused more stress than just about anything else, was, was that adversity of, of someone actually accusing you of something that actually wasn't true. But they can make up whatever they like. They can accuse you of it, take you to court, hope you buckle. And I never buckled. So when it got to the Supreme Court, he buckled and went, oh, okay. Fair enough. How about you have the business? That's what actually happened. And I was like, seriously? So 6 months of hell trying to settle this thing, trying to use business judo, trying to settle it anyway. So by anyway, by mid-2006, it was all over, or more or less all over, and was the best thing that ever happened to me. So the starting of the company Renet was not the easiest journey. So going back to where I started, the Okay, so I get to 2018, I'm retired early, I'm 46 years old, and people go, man, you're so lucky, you're so lucky. You know, like, like I said, some people think I've been kissed on the bum by an angel, which is not true. You know, it's absolutely not. The— and that's, you know, these are some of the big things that happened. Um, and not even if I go back to where it all started, which is what you asked, I'm not going to go through the childhood and some of the things and You know, but you know, some of those situations, once again, every disadvantage has the seed of equal or greater advantage, but we have to find it. You know, we have to have our own positive mental attitude and we have to have the ability to turn around and go, okay, well, this has happened, but how do I now turn this into a benefit? How do I now turn this into an advantage? How do I flip this narrative into a positive outcome for me or for everyone else? And that's probably the single thing I learned the most from the 10 years selling insurance was that mental judo, that business judo. But it gets tested at some point in your life. You're gonna get tested. So to give you an example, right, for anyone out there that's ever done sport, you get tested. So if you're good at cricket, one day you join the cricket club or whatever, you go out, someone bowls a ball at you, you gotta hit it. And all everyone's gonna look, everyone's gonna watch how good you hit it. Whether you get 10 runs, 2 runs, or 100 runs, right? Same thing in surfing. So I'm not bad at surfing, but when I go out and get surfed, when I go out surfing, there's a, there's a group of peers that are going to judge me, literally give a score and say whether I did a good job or not. Literally going to get judged all the time. So when you're going into business and you're doing those things, people are going to judge all the time. But what they always judge on is what they see at the end and what they see is the outcomes. You know, so when you get a positive mental attitude and you start looking for those positive outcomes and you achieve those positive outcomes, everyone thinks it was just easy when it wasn't. It is easy, but it's not. And everyone goes through it. See, what separates the successful people from the— from— I won't call it the unsuccessful people, but what separates the successful people from the ordinary people is their ability to be able to do that. Their ability to be able to do that one thing, which is Okay, this is what's happening. It could be a good thing or a bad, but how do I now, how do I now turn this into a benefit? Or how do I now turn this into a complete advantage for me and for everyone else? Now, if there's not a win-win-win, which is like win-win, just a full 360-degree view, if there's a win for everybody, well, it's going to be good for everybody. And successful people have the ability to be able to do that. They still have things go wrong. Olympians have things go wrong. Ever seen someone wake up and get the gold medal and go, wow, this is so good. I can't believe how easy this was. Nothing ever went wrong. It doesn't happen. It just doesn't happen. Yeah. And the old business saying is that, you know, the second million is easier to make than the first million because the first million is really hard. Well, some people give up on their first million, just start trying to make their second million. Anyway, that's another joke. But the thing is, adversity is what makes us. Achieve what we need to achieve. Well, it's what builds our grit, our determination, and our resilience. And if we don't get things to go wrong, well, then we'll never get that. Not that I want you to have things go wrong. I hope you never have anything go really wrong. In fact, I would recommend no one ever go to the Supreme Court of New South Wales. That was a terrible experience. Uh, but at the same time, You know, I feel sorry for people now when they say they really struggle to find a job and I go, yeah, I hear you. At least you're getting interviews. I never even got interviews. So I hear you. I hear, I hear, but what are you doing about it? What, what are your goals? What do you want to achieve in the next 5 or 10 years? Are you persisting? Are you still trying to turn over those rocks and trying to look for the, what's underneath them and what are the opportunities? You know, and that's what, that's what really sets successful people apart is their ability to be able to do that rather than dwelling on the negatives. But a lot of people really say I was lucky. And whilst I do agree to an extent, what they don't see, I mean, don't get me wrong, not many people get to go on that successful entrepreneurial business journey. I get it. Not many people do a startup and a true startup in the sense that, well, the real estate agents didn't know they needed my software. I actually had to go and create a need. I had to start a need. So I had to go and do that. So, which I did, but not many people go on that startup journey, then turn it into an entrepreneurial journey and then get to exit and be not only financially independent, financially wealthy for the rest of their life. So not many people to get to go on that. So I do agree with people when they say I'm lucky. I go, yes, you're actually correct. I don't know how I pulled it off. I really don't.. But I do know I did certain things. I did follow certain systems. I did certain things. And that's why I enjoy sharing these stories for people who are listening right now. So you understand that there is things you're gonna go through. You are gonna go through pain. You are gonna go through adversity. Things are not gonna go right all the time. In fact, one of the models I teach now is called the Business of Thirds, which is putting things into thirds. So let's say over 10 years or 30 years are gonna be awesome. A third of your years aren't, and that could be COVID, it could be drought, could be fire, could be flood. And a third of the years in the middle will go either way depending on how you do things and how you respond to things, how you're prepared for things and stuff like that. And your year's the same, your month's the same, your day's the same. Everything breaks down your business a third. So you almost have to expect adversity, but when it comes, you want to be mentally ready to go, okay, well, this is obviously my turn. I'm going to flip this. I'm going to try and turn this into something better even though it sucks. I don't see anyone going through adversity going, man, this is the best thing that's ever happened to me. That only comes later. It was like, I'm so glad for that narcissist. No, no, no, no, man, I am so glad nobody gave me a job in 2001, man. Imagine if they'd give me a job, I'd still be working. Oh, I'm so glad no one gave me a job. And I'm so glad I went through a lawsuit, but you know, I'm so glad I went through that because nothing else after that was ever as bad as that. It was like, well, that's easy. Handle that. The experience I got about the legal system and how to handle things was just something, something you can't buy or go to university to learn or TAFE. You have to have experienced that. And I don't know how many people that have actually experienced that either, but someone decided to get a free ride. They didn't get it. So I'm so glad that actually happened. So when I now speak, I try to teach people that this will happen. It might not be the same as mine. I've met people now that have had houses burned down from fires. I've met people who lost everything in floods. You know, I've met people that have done that. In fact, I, for 8 years, I was a local fireman here in Sawtelle. So I saw firsthand adversity and then people having to pull themselves out of the ashes literally because the house burned down and lose everything. 'But they do. Two years later, they've built a new house, they've got a new life, they've, you know, moved on, um, bigger and better than they were before.' And it's amazing when people say that when things happen, and that's adversity for you.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 32:15
Oh wow, Scotty. I, first of all, thank you, and thank you for your realism. Thanks for being real, and you, and bringing all of yourself to this conversation. I think I said that to you before we hit record. Just be yourself, just be you. I say— I try and say that to everyone, but you really have brought all of you into this 30 minutes. I do have a question. Look, I've probably got 312, but I'm going to limit it because, you know, we're time— we're time limited here. When you had that first adversity lesson back in '99 with the narcissist boss, Had you already developed an ability to be aware of that adversity when it was happening and choose to handle it differently? Had you developed that as a skill set through your childhood, or was it something you learned as a result of that and other things after that?
Scotty Schindler (Guest) · 33:15
Here's the thing with adversity and learning to turn negatives into positives and all that stuff. It doesn't happen in, in the situation, happens in a rears. So it's, it's just a year or two later or 3 years later, you go, thank goodness that happened, because if that hadn't happened, I wouldn't be where I am today. So I didn't learn it. I didn't learn the lesson of, you know, dealing with that narcissist during the narcissist situation. But what I did learn— so, all right, so you wanted to go back to where it all started. So if I go back to a certain situation or time in my life, which I'll use high school as an example, So I am ADHD, which as you can tell, you're looking at me on the screen, no one else can see, but you can see me. I, I have to be touching things and playing with things. I'm ADHD. I'm not a normal kid when I'm going in high school. So a lot of kids didn't want to sit with me. So basically, you know, the kid at school that walks around on their own, has no friends to sit with. Well, that was me in year 7 and 8. Then I started surfing and I surfed really good. So then people wanted to know me. So anyway, But what I learned from that, if that makes any sense, is to handle the narcissist in there and how to ignore it and how to go, okay, well, this is what's happening. Because, you know, I had people that wanted to beat me up just because, oh, Scotty's become popular. Well, I'm going to be more popular. I'm going to bash him and chip him a tooth and all sorts of things. So I learned that from, from having a childhood that wasn't as good as it should have been. So when it came to in business, someone being a narcissist, it allowed me to go, okay, well, it's happening. I'm just gonna, I'll say, I'll just go a little bit more reclusive, get in my shell, just do what I need to do, just deal with it. But I am gonna change the trajectory of my life because of this. I am not gonna put up with this any longer. So I'm gonna change. I'm gonna go and try and start my own business. And it took a little while for that to actually come to play. So it wasn't overnight. I said, that's it, I'm quitting my job. Some people do. I just said, well, no, I wanna actually pay off my house first. And then quit my job and then try and start a business. So that's what I did. It wasn't a lesson I learned during that narcissist time. That actually came because of dealing with people like that as a kid. So I was already prepared for that situation and those situations because of, call it, childhood trauma, you know. So yeah, being, being ADHD and, uh, all those sorts of things, you know. I, I never had— if I, if I was at school today, they'd have me on some sort of drug.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 35:43
Thank goodness they didn't, because otherwise you wouldn't probably be you.
Scotty Schindler (Guest) · 35:47
I probably wouldn't be me. But hey, you know, like, you know, when I, when I sold the business and I went to Japan snow skiing in, in January 2018— oh, it was 2009 anyway, whatever it was— I went out with a bunch of mates and we're all there and breakfast, having breakfast, and I'm I'm feeling quite relaxed. It was 2018 and I'm feeling quite relaxed. I'm all good. And they're going, Scotty, slow down a bit. And I'm going, what do you mean? I am, I am relaxed. What are you talking about? Anyway, it was, it was funny cuz that's just who I am. I, um, I'm hyperactive and I'm not saying that's an asset or a liability. It's just who I am. Um, hence the reason why now I'm writing books and I'm sharing the story. I'm still talking, my brain's still firing away. Some people retire early, just go play golf all day or pick up a fishing rod. Oh, I do that as well as keep playing with things because compared to working 60, 70, 80 hours a week running your own company, you're running your own business, which I really enjoyed, by the way. I'm not saying it was a problem. Retirement and doing this sort of stuff and speaking and sharing stories for you and Ian is just, it's a blessing. I love it.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 36:50
Yeah, it's great.
Scotty Schindler (Guest) · 36:50
It inspires someone else to continue and persist. Or like I did, I went through 6 attempts, give up and do another one, give up and do another one. So you don't stop. You let that adversity steer you and you keep persisting for your long-term goals of what it is that you really want to achieve. Remember that whole journey? If you go to when I went to 2006, sort of 1998 when I was having trouble with the narcissist, well, you're talking, you're talking a solid 6-year journey there, 8-year journey, depending on how you look at it. You know, so it's— and then everything was pretty good after that. I still had other problems, things went wrong, but they were never as bad as that. That was the last big bad thing I had to deal with, was the lawsuit.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 37:30
Scotty, I've got two more questions for you. The first one is, when you were going through your adversity— and let's focus on the lawsuit because, you know, having gone through legal issues myself, I know how big that is— did you have support? Did you have a team? Did you have what helped you get through that? Surely you weren't just, you know, a lone soldier. You've talked about having— you've got a wife. Talk to me about the importance of having support around you and the right people.
Scotty Schindler (Guest) · 37:58
All right, you might not like the answer to this. No, I had no support. Um, my wife obviously did. She believed me. She understood. All right, so here's the sad thing about this lawsuit. So he was a friend of mine. We live in the same street. Still to this day. We're no longer friends, right? Come from a little country town, same street, everyone knew what was happening. But anyway, he was suing me, he was taking me to court. So guess what everyone thought? Everyone in town thought I was doing the wrong thing. I actually had people come to me, go, hey Scotty, look, if you're doing the wrong thing, you need to be honest and say so. And I'm sitting there going, what the hell are you talking about? Why don't you ask me what's happening instead of accusing me, just like he is? So anyway, so did I have a big team around me? No, I just had the lawyers and barristers and my wife and me. So I had to have a bet on myself. And, and I literally had to bet on myself. I knew I'd done nothing wrong. But I started to spend a lot of time trying to prove that I'd done nothing wrong. And he could just make up whatever he liked. But I spent a lot of time doing the research going, well, no, everything you're saying is just, it's not true. And in the end, the evidence was there. So he might say, He might even say he won because I paid him $15,000 for the business, you know, so he did get paid something for the business. Originally we're going to split it. It was going to be $50,000 a year each business, you know, so he could have had— I bought the whole lot for $15,000 instead. But, you know, it was interesting. So, you know, from trying to get like half a million dollars at the time, in 2006 was a lot of money because could have bought 2 houses in Soitel now, which is the same as $3 million today. To go all the way back to $15,000 tells you how much he knew he was in the shit. And the only reason why I didn't say, well, now look, just give it all to me, you walk away, is because I knew he wouldn't have taken it. So $15,000 became a nominal amount to get rid of the situation. Business judo. Here's your $15,000. Now get out of my life. I take everything. We're done. So that was the— that was the end result. I wouldn't call it a win-win. You talk about having a team around me, unfortunately, No, and nor did I expect anyone to come in and barrack for me or bat for me or do anything. I didn't expect a lot of our friends to just assume I'd done the wrong thing. But yeah, interesting times.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 40:12
Soldier Scotty.
Scotty Schindler (Guest) · 40:14
Had to just soldier on, yeah. I became very— once again, if I go back to schoolyard days, I became very independent and I became very determined and just stuck to my guns. And did what I needed to do, you know, fight or flight type situation, and I just did it. So yeah, so unfortunately I can't give the team example.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 40:32
No, it's, it's your story. Every story is different, and what you've explained and described to me shows exactly why you are the way you are today. And good on you for having that tenacity and the inner courage and strength, because you knew you could back yourself, you knew you could you know, spend the hours doing the research, compiling all your info, and, and going in because you believed in yourself and you weren't afraid.
Scotty Schindler (Guest) · 40:58
And that's true. I was afraid I couldn't— I was afraid I couldn't prove it, but I knew I'd done nothing wrong and I had to prove it. But I didn't fight fire with fire. I just tried to put out the fire. I didn't, you know, I just went— I didn't counter-sue. I didn't do anything else. I just said, no, it's all bullshit. It's not true. And I just need the facts. Just the facts, and that's what I stuck with, and it worked. So you can't— if you try to sue someone and you're lying, you are going to fall on your sword. But I guess a lot of people cave, or they didn't have enough evidence, or they weren't as diligent as I was. I mean, I went through and I did everything, but I had to do it on my own, unfortunately. So yeah, interesting times. Best thing that ever happened to me.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 41:37
Definitely love— and I love that you are helping others now. Um, Scotty, last question. If there's someone listening to your story who is going through anything or resonates with anything that you've shared in terms of your adversity, is there something you'd like to say to them?
Scotty Schindler (Guest) · 41:55
Well, depending on what they're going through, because no one's two situations is ever exactly the same. No. And the reality is that the— I guess I'll say the longer you're around, the more people you talk to that have had adversity. Is, is they'll all say the same thing. Anyone that's got some sort of level of success will all say they've gone through it. And that could be divorces, it could be health, it could be, you know, sort of medical things, or it could be, you know, financial. Look, so many people have been through so many different situations, but most of them will come out the other side better than what they were before they went into it. It becomes the best thing that's ever happened to them, even though It's the worst thing at the time. It's like the world's ending. And I know how you feel, but it's really not. It's really just, it's a really a turning point. And what that lesson is, you asked earlier about that lesson in 1999, for example, with the narcissist. But what that lesson is will not reveal itself until later. And you'll look back and you'll go, a year or so later, could be 3, and you'll go, well, that was the best thing that ever happened. And you'll be going, thank goodness that happened, because if it hadn't happened, I wouldn't be where I am today.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 43:11
Scotty, thank you. I so appreciate you sharing your story. I love what you've given me today. Like, it's inspiring to me. And, and I think one of the, one of the things I just want to highlight is it doesn't matter, like you said, that someone might not be going through exactly the same thing. We all go through stuff, we do. And you clearly went through your own share. And I love the, the story and how you've described your journey, what you did to, to get over it, but also the learnings, you know, and who that's made you today, what— who you've become as a result of all of that, and what you're doing with that, and how you're giving back and sharing and teaching and you know, you're a bundle of joy. Like, you know, you radiate energy. Doesn't matter the ADHD label. It's like, I want more Scotties. More Scotties in the world would be a great thing. That's what I just want to say.
Scotty Schindler (Guest) · 44:03
Well, thank you. I appreciate that, you know, um, because I do enjoy sharing the story. And when people tell me that I had an effect on them and I helped change their life, and it happens more often than not nowadays, I go, wow, I was just talking to the story, and then I hear something like what you said. And I really do appreciate that, so thank you.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 44:23
Thank you so much, Scotty. I appreciate you and your time today. It's been, it's been gold.
Scotty Schindler (Guest) · 44:28
Thank you.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 44:33
We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Kintsugi Heroes. Please like and share the show to your friends so we can get this out to even more people. If you have a story you'd like to share with us, please reach out using the contact details below and join us next week for our next hero's story. Until then, keep being you, and remember that we are all heroes in our own unique way.
Scotty Schindler (Guest) · 45:00
Only when it's broken, only when it's broken, when it hits you in the middle of the night and the truth Truth burns so bright. Only when it's broken. Only when it's broken. Take pride in those cries. It's only for tonight. And then you rise. Only when you're broken. Only when you're broken. Only when you're broken.
You don't have to be in crisis to call.
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