Peter Donnell · 67 min
After workplace bullying, a traumatic birth, and a breakdown that brought him to the edge of self-harm, Peter Donnell rebuilt himself from the inside out, and learned to read his mental health like the weather.
Hear this story
In 2000, Peter Donnell's world looked solid. He had a new job in Sydney's city centre, his wife was pregnant with their first child, and the Olympics were about to transform the city. Then his office closed, his son's birth turned into an emergency caesarean with complications, and when he asked his manager for adjusted hours to help his wife recover, he was called a non-team player. Over the next few years, workplace bullying followed him through three jobs. A manager withheld his study reimbursement while using the skills he'd learned. Another told him not to help a struggling colleague, then gave him a warning letter when that colleague needed one. The day that warning arrived, Peter felt the world open up and swallow him whole.
Walking home through a suffocating fog, Peter experienced an out-of-body state and urges toward self-harm. A mental image of his young son pulling him into a headlock and saying 'Dad, I love you' kept him anchored that night. His first psychiatrist ate Mentos and yawned through their session; it was his mother, a mental health professional herself, who talked him back into his body. During six weeks in psychiatric hospital, Peter looked in the mirror and saw himself as a boat in dry dock, needing internal rebuilding. That shift changed everything.
Peter learned to see life not as a tunnel toward distant light, but as changeable weather. He named his depression Mongrel and his anxiety Henry, learning to recognise them as separate things he could manage and box up. He walked ten kilometres to the next town after being sacked, letting anger and confusion pour out with every step. He rode a bike up steep hills to test his internal strength against something outside himself. Over nearly two decades, with support from his mother, a good psychiatrist, and a psychologist who understood him, Peter rebuilt. Today he works as a driver, measures his resilience against a scoring app, and knows that storms and sun are both temporary. Nothing lasts forever.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses abuse & exploitation, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • Blue Knot Foundation (complex trauma): 1300 657 380 · blueknot.org.au • 1800RESPECT (family, domestic & sexual violence): 1800 737 732 · 1800respect.org.au
“I could feel this really deep sea fog that was coming in and it started at my feet and gradually made its way up my body to the point that it was a suffocating cocoon.”
“at the time I wanted her to be my mother and not my nurse.”
“my wife and my kids, they were passengers in a car accident where they weren't, you know, they could do nothing but just, you know, have their seat belts on and go for the ride.”
The hero, today
Peter learned to separate his anxiety from his depression by naming them: Mongrel (the voice constantly putting him down) and Henry (the anxiety that rises and falls), which allowed him to recognise them as distinct things he could manage rather than one overwhelming force. The shift from seeing life as a tunnel with no light to seeing it as changeable weather fundamentally altered how Peter copes: storms and sun are both temporary, nothing lasts forever, and knowing that rain is not permanent lets him keep moving forward. Peter discovered that his body keeps score of stress and exhaustion in ways he did not recognise at the time, and that physical activity, particularly bike riding, became as important as psychiatric care for keeping his mental health stable. His mother, by taking off her nursing hat and putting on her mother hat when he needed it most, and then later connecting him with the right psychiatrist and psychologist, showed Peter that asking for help and accepting support from people who know him was essential to his recovery. Peter realised he could only control what happened within his own property and yard, not in the wider world, which released him from the burden of trying to protect his family from everything and let him be present with them instead.
Yes. Peter Donnell is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Peter learned to separate his anxiety from his depression by naming them: Mongrel (the voice constantly putting him down) and Henry (the anxiety that rises and falls), which allowed him to recognise them as distinct things he could manage rather than one overwhelming force.
The shift from seeing life as a tunnel with no light to seeing it as changeable weather fundamentally altered how Peter copes: storms and sun are both temporary, nothing lasts forever, and knowing that rain is not permanent lets him keep moving forward.
Peter discovered that his body keeps score of stress and exhaustion in ways he did not recognise at the time, and that physical activity, particularly bike riding, became as important as psychiatric care for keeping his mental health stable.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 00:06
Welcome back to Kintsugi Heroes, helping people tell the stories they need to share so you can find the stories that you need to hear. In this episode, Mark Henderson has a conversation with Peter Donnell about his journey through anxiety and depression. Peter shares how big changes at work and tough experiences at home, like a difficult birth for his son and stress on his family, led to struggles with mental health. He opens up about facing workplace bullying, learning to ask for help, and finding ways to manage his well-being with support from doctors, family, exercise, and time in nature. Peter explains how he's come to see life's ups and downs like changing weather and how he now keeps moving forward, stronger than before. We hope you enjoy this conversation.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 01:02
Hello, my name is Mark Henderson and I'm hosting Peter Donnell today on Kintsugi Heroes. Peter's got a story which he shared in different settings, but today he's going to go more deeply into it. He's journeying into some anxiety and depression in 2006 and how that journey has rolled with him over the last two decades. So I'd like to welcome Peter here today. Thanks for joining us, Peter.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 01:32
Thank you for having me, Mark.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 01:34
It's, uh, Kintsugi has a theme about how we bring ourselves back together, mend some of the healing, and how we come back often more beautiful with gold thread through our, the cracks we've had to shore up. Today we're hoping to explore some of those aspects with you, Peter, but really hear your story. So thanks so much for joining us. So can you start by telling us a little of yourself? Yeah. And then we might step back into how life shifted for you.
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His mother, by taking off her nursing hat and putting on her mother hat when he needed it most, and then later connecting him with the right psychiatrist and psychologist, showed Peter that asking for help and accepting support from people who know him was essential to his recovery.
This conversation includes life looking up in 2000, office closure and a choice that changes everything, emergency birth and the manager's cruelty, workplace bullying across three jobs, the warning letter that breaks him and fog, self-harm, and a mental snapshot that saves him.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 02:11
Yeah, sure. So I'm now 54. I live in the northern suburbs of Sydney. I'm married with 2 kids, and you may have seen before our little dog Lily. We had her instead of, instead of having 3 kids, we got the dog instead. So yeah, it's, life's going along very nicely and going, keeping active through sport. I like going to the gym, exercising, walking Lily, and gardening, and when time permits, reading. So that's the biggest challenge. But yeah, so I guess my story begins back in 2000. We— and actually '99, then into 2000. And of course, from the majority of people that remember, Y2K was the big thing for '99 with the— and we're all waiting for the planes to drop out at the 31st of December. But Fortunately, that didn't happen. And then 2000 being the Olympics and probably the best 2 weeks, being a Sydneysider, that I think, you know, we can ever have. For me professionally, I was actually going really well. I'd sort of got a new gig with the company I worked for and was sort of projecting in the right— projecting the right way. And not long past that, my wife fell pregnant with our son. And all of a sudden, going into the 2000s, life was rosy, literally. And one day I worked in a sub-head office in a suburb, and we were all called in to say that they're actually closing our office down. And the options were going to Hurstville, which is on the other side of Sydney, or to Parramatta. And I didn't— well, Hurstville wasn't an option really. It just wasn't going to work. Um, you know, those of you that know Sydney, it's easily a 2-hour commute one way to get to Hurstville from where I lived, or live. And, um, Parramatta was an option, but I thought that I wanted to go to the Taj Mahal, which is the head office in the city.. And fortunate enough, picked up a job there in the hope that, you know, that the trajectory could still go the right way. And around that time, my son was born and we had complications with his birth. It ended up being an emergency caesarean with the cord wrapped around his neck. And my wife, having had previous back surgery, couldn't have an epidural, so she had a general anaesthetic to knock her out. And consequently the wound became infected. So, and just to add another thing in there, she also was anemic, so she wasn't a well lady. And for a period there, I was sort of looking after our son, her, and managing the house and everything else. Um, so we would seem to, to go didn't seem to affect me too much at the time and sort of felt like I was Teflon, that nothing could stick to me. And then I started the new job and that's when it sort of hit with— I'd be getting phone calls and my wife was in tears. You could hear the baby crying in the background. And I went to the assistant manager one day and just said, look, can I cut my lunch hours in half to finish earlier? And she said, yep, not a problem. Um, so we, you know, we sort of started that day. She agreed with, and then, uh, turned out that we had an influx of calls that afternoon. And the next day I was called into the manager's office and told that I wasn't a team player and that, um, I need to sort of have a think about whether or not this was the right environment for me to be in. And why was it that I didn't like working in her team. And so off the back of that, that was the, the first case that I experienced of workplace bullying. I sort of not long after that left the company and picked up a new job with, with a multinational, and that wasn't much better.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 06:49
Peter, I'm so interested in, in that area because you suddenly have these factors hitting you, external factors that you can't control and which are really important, right? Babies and wives going through difficulty and quite a lot of rapid change. So 3 things hitting you pretty hard. And then this particular company kind of is trying to cut you loose. And yeah, that's what it sounds like to me, which is really like, oh no, they've been pretty, pretty horrible in some ways. So that was tough on you?
Mark Henderson (Host) · 07:33
Very tough. And it actually got worse, Mark, because just you saying that reminded me that I actually did some study in the lead-up to— while all that was going on. And the policy at the time was if you passed your exams, the company would reimburse you. And this same manager refused to pay me my study costs because she didn't authorize me to do the study. But at the same time, she was also happy to make use of the skills that I'd learnt from the study. So it was really a toxic, and a toxic relationship that I had with her, which at the time I just dealt with. But looking back on it now, yeah, I wasn't very nice.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 08:20
Yeah, pretty one-way-ish, but they're trying to have it their way, and that sounded pretty tough, especially when you've, um— how are you feeling family-wise at the time? I mean, it's a, it's a quite a dynamic and special time, a new child, and but also then suddenly your partner's in, in difficulty.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 08:43
Yeah, my partner, she really struggled through the process in those early days, and particularly with her own health and the way— because the birth didn't happen that either of us had planned or expected, and that in itself was quite traumatic. Um, yeah, I, I, there is a joke I know about childbirth, and having been through it, um, there is some sort of reality to it. I won't tell the joke because it's not, not appropriate in this environment, but Um, yeah, it's a whole different— you, after being through it, you have a whole different respect for women, um, and what they have to go through for that process. And, um, you know, I take my hat off to, to anyone that can— that, that— or to any woman actually that has gone through it or is going through it. Most tremendous time of their lives. Um, but yeah, it's certainly a challenge and certainly a challenge for me because just in that process of my son, it took— we went— she went into labor on the Saturday night, and then midway through the Sunday morning, that was when they managed to sedate her and in turn look after the bub. But when they took her into surgery, It was actually probably one of the most— well, at that point in time, it was one of the most loneliest points. And the trauma that I experienced through that was something that I've never done, had never did before, and I unfortunately never had since. Like, it was just sort of pretty much being on my own and not knowing what the outcome was going to be, whether for the baby or for her.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 10:34
Yeah, it was, it was, uh, yeah, I mean, very scary and uncertain time, especially by the sound of it. If, if so much of your life was, was planned, was business, was orientated, you guys went into this, this labor, you know, birth labor situation, and then suddenly it's a little bit out of control and you're getting put to the side. Um, yeah, it's, it's so interesting that you acknowledge that suddenly lonely space that you're cast into.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 11:05
Yeah.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 11:07
So yeah, thanks, thanks for sort of recognizing that and articulating it, I think, Peter.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 11:12
That's nice. Thanks, Mark.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 11:14
That's it. So, so you're rolling forward and, and the— I suppose, and, and you, you leave that company, but you've also got a, a wife in a bit of distress and a new bub and, uh And the step up of having to try to find it or move into a new job with all that learning and all this stuff on the home front. So it's, I would think, it's coming at you pretty fast, this life thing.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 11:38
It certainly is. And this is when I first probably— whilst you mentioned that I was diagnosed in 2006, I think I actually carried this with me before then. Um, the— and I, I actually, I, I'll tell a story on this in a moment, but In the second job, I also encountered workplace bullying. So part of what I had to do, or what I was asked to do, was to go to conferences, represent the company, answer any questions, take any leads, etc. And, you know, all the things that you're meant to do at the conference. And whilst I was away, it meant that I couldn't do my usual business and what I needed to in the office. And a couple of snide remarks were made that from different people within my team that not only did they have to do their work, but they also had to do mine. And that was a bit hard because I didn't put my hand up to go to these conferences. I went off because they asked me to. And it came to a head one year when the Melbourne Cup was on, and this company is quite a well-known company and has staff that sort of go off everywhere for, for, you know, for parties, etc., when it's for Melbourne Cup. And it was me and one other person who didn't receive an invite. So we were sitting in the office watching the Cup and drinking wine. But going back to when I think I was diagnosed, when I first felt something wrong, was they used to have end of financial year parties. And one of the girls said, "Oh, I can't wait, we're gonna do Murder on the Dance Floor." And the first alarm bell rang thinking that she was actually going to be murdering me on the dance floor. And it's quite amazing now when I look back and hear that song and thinking how sick I was even before, you know, it was gonna be another couple of years before I was diagnosed. But the writing was there already. So that was, uh, that was an interesting thing. And, um, again, there were some other instances where, um, I had support of some management, but senior manager— the senior manager of the department actually came for me and, and had my— and roasted me over something which, uh, I felt wasn't in— I, I we sent a letter out to a client saying that we couldn't help them, and that was with my direct line manager's approval. Um, but yet I was the one that got roasted for it. Um, and off the back of that, I thought that, yeah, my time with that company was over. And then moved on to job number 3, which was pretty much a dream job for me. It was one where I thought could very well end up being my forever role. And it was here where the wheels really fell off. So also around this time, we had our child number 2. And for all the complexities and the issues that we had from the birth of my son, my daughter was the complete opposite. It was as though both the doctors, my wife, you know, we knew that we had to do things or had to be done differently. So it was a set date for a cesarean birth. And yeah, it was set for Monday mornings, not around this time. And we got in there and the anesthetist said, are you guys planning any more kids? And we sort of said no. He goes, right, you're going to point— looking at me— you're coming into the theater. You know, you'll get to experience this. And it was like, you know, you could knock me over with a feather, Mark. It was just like, really? This is fantastic. Yeah, how awesome. Anyway, um, and what's more, apparently I was the first layperson that was actually allowed into an operating theater of that hospital. Um, so that was equally more. Um, the tragedy of it is that I, I'm a bit of— can be a bit of a tech nerd. And so I spent more time talking to the anesthetist and all the computer equipment. And then they said, oh, you 'Your daughter's born now.' And we hadn't even known what we were having. And it was like, really?
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 16:14
So soon?
Mark Henderson (Host) · 16:17
So it was sort of like, yeah, quite a phenomenal experience. And I have unfortunately said that story to my daughter who doesn't hold back in giving me the what-for over it, you know, that I was more interested in looking at computers than seeing her come out of her mum. But Anyway, that's life.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 16:40
Equipment. But, uh, to be in the room, kind of what a privilege, and nice to be there, I suppose.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 16:45
So yeah, um, and, and then, um, the people— I, again, that feeling that I had at the company before where the— I thought that the, the murder on the dance floor, um, as I was going into the, the office I could feel nerves or anxiety starting to build, and again, I didn't really pay too much attention to it. Another alarm bell. And it just basically built up over time. And then one day, I just went on one of the websites that you can go on to answer questions, and yep, sure enough, I had depression, anxiety, and the first thing was that I didn't treat it with respect. I thought, like, you know, quite often in the media you hear about Celebrity X or Celebrity Y, you know, they've got anxiety, they've got depression, and it's sort of like, you know, almost being treated as being a trendy disease, you know, that, you know, you're not someone unless you've got it. Wow.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 17:56
What, um, So you knew something wasn't quite right. So you've gone and done a search and found a website and answered a range of questions, I take it. And you've gone, "Oh gosh, I'm a score of 6 out of 10 on some scale," and gone, "That, yeah, okay, I'm pretty sure I've got anxiety or depression." So you've self-diagnosed. Um, was that shifting? I mean, you're saying you didn't quite give it the respect you needed, or?
Mark Henderson (Host) · 18:25
Yeah, and I'll go into that a bit more, Mark, about that, um, just a little bit when, when, um, when, uh, because I'll— yeah, that's— there's a lot more ingredients to come. Okay. Um, so yeah, I, I just sort of, again, I didn't act on it straight away. I just knew. And I, I've got to hand it to the, the people I worked for because I'd go to their office, like it was natural for us that, and it was encouraged that when you first get in, you walk around to everyone and say hello, you know, welcome, good morning, you know, blah blah blah. And, you know, I would actually include a bit like the weather report on how I was feeling that day. So this continued on for some time. I don't know why they just didn't sort of like, you know, do something, tell me to pull my head in or, you know, go get some help or whatever. But, you know, that's what I did. Um, and, uh, anyway, it came to a head, um, a couple of times. And again, 3 out of 3 with workplace bullying. This one was a corker. And this is something that I, I haven't said publicly before. I have said it privately to, to some people, but I was called into the manager's office one day, and, um, it turned out— sorry, Lily needs to be want some attention again. Um, anyway, hello. Um, she goes, I don't want you helping that person. Um, we're looking at giving her a warning letter. Um, and by you helping her means then that the work that she's doing, um, is compromised. And I thought that, that was just downright weird. That I could— not to mention totally unprofessional, but I just thought, right, anyway. And I went back and just kept to myself and didn't say anything at the time. And, um, then, you know, about a week and a half later, the, um, the— we did the performance reviews, and it was actually me that got the warning letter and not her. And at that point the world opened up and swallowed me whole. And it was the beginning of the end, so to speak, for me at that company. But also a few other things that happened in between was my relationship with my wife. It wasn't strained, but when I wanted to give her a cuddle, she'd pull away. Or, you know, if I wanted to go have a kiss, she'd pull away. And at the time I thought there was something against me, but it was the fact that she was around two toddlers who all they did was wanting to crave their mum. And she was just desperate for her own space. But at the time, and with the way that I was feeling, I thought, hold on, this is also something for me. So it was just a, a whole combination of everything coming together that was just too much. And, um, anyway, this particular day that something happened, and, um, I was walking— I think I was meeting my family on the the western side of town. And as I was walking across, I could feel this really deep sea fog that was coming in, and it started at my feet and gradually made its way up my body to the point that it was a suffocating cocoon. And, um, I got to— we came home, I went straight to bed, and a few times I got up and all I wanted to do was self-harm. And, um, again, the human body being what it is, something intervened. And this time it was a photo— or not a— I'd taken mentally, um, in that last week of my son. And he, at the age of 2, 3, something like that, he pulled me into a headlock and said, Dad, I love you. And I took a mental snap of that that I still have today. And it was sort of that thing that sort of kept intervening. But the other thing that happened during this time was it was like my body— I was having an out-of-body experience in the sense that my spirit was out of my body looking down at me. And it was just— if you saw me in the face, I'm sure I probably would have had zombie-like eyes. And not really being myself or being present because I was this— it's sort of like the way I could describe it is those in the movies when someone passes and you see the spirit lift out of them. It was sort of like that. And the spirit was looking down at me saying— not saying anything, just watching. And the entire time in between all that, I had this photo going on. So there was quite a bit, quite a bit going there. Anyway, I saw the GP at my local practice. He gave me some drugs that was supposed to help me, and he put me in touch with the psychiatrist. So I'm going to call him Psychiatrist Number 1. And not having any other experience of seeing a psychiatrist was in the movies again. And you lie on the daybed and you tell them your story, and they're supposed to throw stuff back at you and, you know, that's supposed to be helpful and all the rest of it. Well, psychiatrist number one did two things. One, actually, sorry, correction, he did three things. The first one was he ate that much Mentos during the half-hour session we had. I'm sure— I don't know how he went afterwards. Number two was in between eating Mentos, he yawned. And number 3, you said time's up. And I could have— like, I just blurted whatever to him, and at no time did I get an actual response back from him. At no time did he check up on my meds, you know. And it was to the point that, um, I just didn't see the relevance in going there. And when I mentioned before about not having respect for the disease, or for the illness, I should say. Um, that was it, you know. I, I should have, you know, at that point gone back to my GP and said, hey, you know, psychiatrist number one's not working for me, the drugs you're giving me, or he's giving me, aren't working for me. Um, but I didn't, you know. I just thought, well, society says, I'll go with society.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 25:16
And Peter, you, you were on some medication when you had this fog come over you and this experience and this sense of, of, to, to self-harm.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 25:28
Yep.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 25:28
And, and self-harm often being a way to try to get back in your body and feel, uh, you know, my limited understanding of it, I suppose. So, uh, and yet the psychiatrist isn't You don't feel as engaged with you when you're so—
Mark Henderson (Host) · 25:45
No, no, far from it. Like the total opposite of engaged that you could possibly want, you know. Um, and, uh, so going back to the, the night of the self-harm, um, the only thing I could do was to ring my mother, who was, uh, was in the field of mental health when she worked. And, um, I tried to keep her out of it in the sense that she is someone that would have helped. Like, you'll see the outcome of it, but at the time, I, I wanted her to be my mother and not my nurse. Yeah, if, if that makes sense.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 26:24
Sure.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 26:25
And, um, anyway, we, um, this night I rang her, and as soon as I did that, it was like my body surrendered. And I came back as one. The sad part through all of this was I didn't tell my wife. Nobody knew. It was a need-to-know basis, actually, as to how it was. And of course, at the time, being, you know, there isn't the focus that we see today where men are encouraged to talk about their feelings or to get help. It was more a case of, you know, I'm— I've got to be strong for my wife. I've got to be strong for my kids. And at the same time, for friends and family, I was trying to be all things to all people. And, you know, it was just a collision course, literally, to the point that for my wife and my kids, they were passengers in a car accident where they weren't, you know, they could do nothing but just have their seatbelts on and go for the ride.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 27:27
What do you think that sort of you handling it all being— I, I would call it maybe a little bit of stoicism— is coming from? Is it, is it your idea of, of what it is to be the father and the man, or is it something more in line with Peter? Is it to do with, hey, your depression, the depression which is going on, and it's throwing this blanket on you? Or where do you reckon that comes from?
Mark Henderson (Host) · 27:53
A lot of it was probably suddenly the male part of it, that, you know, we've got to be the one to stand up and wear the Superman uniform and take the hits and protect your family. Mm-hmm. You know, I don't know that it was too much of me. Like, obviously I still protect my family. My viewpoint is a lot different these days than what it was at the time. So One of the things at the time that I felt was, as soon as, you know, it didn't matter whether I was at home or whether I was, you know, in a shopping center, you know, I saw it as my role to act as protector for my family. And to a degree, that's still there. But now I realize that I can only really control what happens in the confines of my property. And once I step out onto the road from my driveway, then there is still a set of responsibility and there is still a set of control that you have, but you don't have the same control or the same mannerisms that you'd have within your own house, if that makes sense.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 29:07
Sure, sure. So you've recognized what you can control or not control and where the boundaries and parameters form. Do you think some of your views have tempered in other ways? Can you contrast then and now?
Mark Henderson (Host) · 29:28
Well, I can, and it's actually funny you say that, Mark, because one of the things that's often put down with mental health is that there's light at the end of the tunnel. And I really didn't like that because to me a tunnel is a dark place.. And you could be at the start of the tunnel and you don't even see the light. You could be in the middle of the tunnel and you don't even see the light. Sometimes you can be at the end of the tunnel and you still don't see the light. So going back to where we were, and I will come— I promise you I'll come back to what you say. When my mother flew up the next day, we went and saw psychiatrist number one. On the Monday, so, and also my GP, and I was, I was referred into hospital, um, or mental hospital, which again is pretty, um, when you're not, when you haven't been in an environment like that, you know, and it is a little bit of a throw-in, you know, that, that all, and it was all very surreal, I think. Um, for us all. And, um, one of the things that happened very early on there, and this is coming back to, to your question, was I looked in the mirror, um, about halfway through my stay, and I saw myself as a boat. And while I was in hospital, I was in, in dry dock, meaning that the whole like as a— out of body, I needed, you know, I was fine, but internally I needed to be rebuilt. And, um, now I'm actually Queen Victoria, part of the Cunard Line. But, uh, the other aspect to it is that I don't see life, or I don't see it as a tunnel. I actually see it as the weather. So where I am today, it's blue sky, it's beautiful, mid-20s. Perfect day to be on the ocean and tomorrow, well, you know, there could be a thunderstorm. But the point being is that it's not always going to be sunny and it's not always going to be a thunderstorm. So at the time I was living in a world where I was in the tunnel and also the other thing with the tunnel is that you're enclosed, you know, there's the, you can't go sideways, you can go back short, but you know, you are enclosed in a dark place. Whereas now when I look out at the weather, you know, it's a beautiful day or it could be a yucky day. But the point being is it's not always going to be like that. And that's probably the other big thing that's taken time to come to. I often referred it to a bit like Forrest Gump, like life's not like a box of chocolates. Well, you know, I see that, but I've just turned it into the weather instead. And I guess that's probably the other aspect to your question. I hope that answers it with what you were looking for.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 32:34
Yeah, you've shaped a dialogue around something which is working for you and may work for other people too. I understand that tunnel idea, especially when you have young kids. Sometimes you work, you just don't have enough hours in the day and it feels like It's just one hand, one knee in front of the other as you crawl along this tunnel knowing that you will get somewhere. But the idea of that openness of the weather, and yes, it will change and it's changeable, which is a much wider dynamic as opposed to just trudging. So hopefully that rings true for some people listening.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 33:17
I certainly hope so. Um, yeah, the other thing that also were two big players, um, and this, this came to light more when I actually left hospital. So going back to my mother again, um, she took off her mother hat and put on her nursing hat, and she set me up with not just psychiatrist number two but also a psychologist. And the psychologist I go to— and I see it now— that for both of them it's a grease and oil change, you know. It's just to go in, make sure the bolts are done. And as you say, it's close to 20 years that I've been seeing both of them now. And I just look at it that it's part of life, you know. I don't see the need— I don't put it that that, you know, the psychiatrist is someone that's, you know, they look at your brain or you look at your mind and, you know, there must be something wrong. I look at it more so that going back to the respect part is that, yes, they're looking to make sure that I'm still going okay. And that's just doing a grease and oil change that you would on your car. You know, and the same with my psychologist. My psychologist actually went one step further because I didn't realize, um, that, that you could separate anxiety and, and depression. So with my depression, I actually had this voice that was always continually wanting to put me down. Um, so the depression became called mongrel, and And, um, the anxiety is Henry. And fortunately, going to forward now, um, mongrel doesn't really— it's been a while since mongrel's been around. And so I've pretty much put him in a box and kept him there. Henry comes up every now and then. And that— the beauty of having been through what I've been through, Mark, is that once you're at the bottom you know you can't go any lower. And so I've often heard the story that anxiety can be seen as a superhero when you come out the other side. And that is so true because I now know, um, I now know that, uh, you know, what my body's feeling and, and so in tune with where it's at that it means then that I feel comfortable in almost every— most situations. That I'm around. And as a consequence to that, you know, I can sort of pick up when my mood is changing. And, you know, I can tell my wife that, yeah, I'm not 100% at the moment. And there's some special medication I can take that will help calm me. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. And it goes back to that weather thing again that you just know that it'll improve. It might be tomorrow, it could be the next day, but rain's not forever and dark clouds aren't forever.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 36:36
I'm really hearing 3 aspects there. There's one that sounds like there's the testing that you've gone through and the learning that's come through that testing. There's a part where you've prepared to vocalise and recognise things as a self-awareness. And then there's a more holistic view to say, I recognise there's this wider world around me, like the weather, and that's changeable. And this too will change, right? This too will change. Are there any of those which which you can speak to a little bit more because you've got a really fine perspective on some of these, I think.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 37:26
Yeah, so, um, there's still more to, to what I— to my story, but going back to, to the question you've just asked, so a couple of months ago Henry made an appearance and I had him for about 3 days where— so for 3 nights consecutively I took these special tablets with no no improvement. And then I remembered Netflix actually have a meditation series. And so I just put the meditation series on Netflix, and in the space of 20 minutes of watching that, Henry was back in its box. And, you know, and that was about a month and a half ago. So it's sort of like, yeah, You know, it's just being mindful and aware of what it is that's around you. And, you know, if solution number one doesn't work, then, you know, just find something that will. And yeah, for some people, you know, that could be getting out, going for a walk, or just spending an hour or two in the garden, or reading, or just, you know. And fortunately for me in this instance, it was Netflix and the meditation.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 38:42
So you've got a toolkit, you kind of got a toolkit that you know, you know, to go and bring out this toolkit and grab spanner or wrench and, and, and give them a twist and tinker away.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 38:55
Yep, exactly right.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 38:57
Right, right. Okay.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 39:00
Yeah, so, um, going back to, to where we were, I went back to— I had 6 weeks off, um, after I was released from hospital. And that was really challenging because so much of that was mental, and there was a stigma that I had that we would walk through a shopping center and I felt that everybody was looking and pointing at me saying, "He's been in a mental hospital." And even driving took a big— like, it took a while for me to get the confidence back to drive. Just from the same aspect. And it was all about, again, having to rebuild the internals and the, the confidence of it, you know. And obviously now I don't have that, those issues, but at the time, you know, they played a big part. I went back to work, and within a day of being back there, one of the managers came to me and said, don't forget, we're still performance managing you. And I said, "No, I hadn't forgotten." And then not long after that, I just felt that the position was becoming untenable. And for the first time ever in my career, I actually left without having a job to go to. So again, for my family, it was, you know, back in the car accident scenario that We had no idea what the future held, but my parents at the time lived down the far south coast, and I thought that's where I wanted to be. So we packed up and went south and lived with them. And for my wife, that was probably the most horrendous 6 months of her life, to the point that she also got support. My kids, well, my daughter was too young for school. My son had just started and didn't get off to the best start because we put him up to the bus stop to catch the bus into town. It was a 20-minute bus ride and we managed to put him on the wrong bus, or I managed to put him on the wrong bus. He went on the high school bus, which is another 20 minutes on the other side of town. And yeah, the school rang saying, we don't know where he is. And next minute the bus company rings them saying, oh, we've got a student of yours. Oh my goodness. So yeah, we knew after that the right bus for him, but it took a little while. And then— Well, that was an adventure for your son. Sorry?
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 41:49
That was an adventure for your son.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 41:51
Oh, most definitely. Most definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, um, for, for— we have family friends down there that had a farm, and I actually ended up doing volunteer work for them, which was an interesting experience in itself. So all of a sudden I'm dealing with cows and herding them and, um, sort of mending fences or, you know, just, uh, general farm handwork, whatever it might be that that need to be done.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 42:22
Was that very reflective for you, where you suddenly think, here I find myself here walking around a muddy field or next to putting a fence post in or something like that?
Mark Henderson (Host) · 42:33
Uh, it was just a whole different— something that I'd never done before. Um, respective, like, you know, I always knew like farming was tough and hard but nothing sort of prepared me for what it actually is. For the farmer, the best part was he had electric fences, and there was a cold day where we had to get under one, and it was live. So next minute I got a bit of a spark, which made his day. On the other side of it, you know, they had a manual car, which I'd sort of had some time learning, but I hadn't really driven before. A Sense, and I had to go up a hill and I managed to burn their clutch out, um, taking— getting up this hill. The poor thing, the poor thing was doing a hemorrhage. So, um, but yeah, it was an experience and it was a lovely experience that I had, and it was probably what I needed at the time. The, uh, the, the, you know, that there will be fond memories always from being there. And I guess probably the best was being on the tractor mowing a lawn. You know, and yeah, it was great. But there was a period I sort of, I think, I felt that I could go back into the workforce. And I always had a passion for cars, always have, always will. And I managed to pick up a job in a sales area. And for me, I was happy like a pig in mud. My family weren't too happy about it because it was just, yeah, you know, it meant probably another now for us. And at that stage, we tried to put our house here on the market with a view of relocating down there. And anyway, the job didn't really work out that well. And funny enough, this is one of those things I, I, I have hadn't told anyone before today, and I was actually going in, um, the first day of August, or the first Monday of August, to say I'm quitting, but instead they sacked me. Oh, so it was quite, um, yeah, so it was probably fortuitous in that respect. And one of the things prior to that actually happening, and also with my— that I felt was I was scared about getting sacked. Like, I didn't— and I didn't— it wasn't something that I thought I could have coped with. So I packed up my gear and not knowing what to do. It was 10K to the next town and I walked it. And in doing that walking, I got out all the emotions of anger, upset. What do we do next? You know, so to speak. And it just— I was able to let everything out. And I just— it was probably, just to give you an idea, it's probably about a 3/4 of an hour drive back to where we were living, to where I was working. And I wasn't— I just wanted to walk for as long as I could, or for as long as I felt necessary. So if I felt that I had to walk that distance, I probably would have. But by the time I got to the next town I had all my emotions out and I then sort of rang home and said, 'Oh, can you come and get me? I'm here, you know, they've sacked me.' And I then had to go through them all again with my wife and my parents. And yeah, it was a challenge in itself for that to happen. The interesting thing was that I vowed that I'd have a job in a month's time, which I ended up having. Um, I was non-discriminatory of where it would be. So if it was down the coast, it would be down the coast. If it was back in Sydney, it was back in Sydney. Um, and I'd be happy just to do like, you know, whatever it was that came, came up. I, I was happy, like, and, um, so off the back of that community, I suppose that's sort of—
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 47:26
sorry, the best opportunity.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 47:29
Exactly. Yeah, yeah, exactly right.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 47:32
Got a strong work ethic in there. Sounds like Peter.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 47:36
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Um, and that's something that, that's come from my family, or my parents in particular. Um, Yeah, both worked extremely hard and were extremely successful in their fields. In terms of the job opportunities in the country are very slim, as many may know. And this was in September, and I went into the local Woolies and they said, "We're not employing for Christmas yet." So I sort of knew then that the writing was was on the wall for us to be down living down that way. So if you can't get a job at Woolies anytime, then what chance have you got elsewhere? And anyway, we ended up, as it turned out, more opportunities were coming back up in Sydney. So I was successful in getting one and that caused some family angst as well. Quite a lot of family angst. Because from their aspect, and rightly so, they thought that I've come out of the oil and the fire, I need to go back into the oil and fire. So what would be different this time around? And I knew that. And so one of the things that had happened, which was another contributor to my illness, was I sold my car. So all of a sudden, after having your own independence with your car and being able to do things when you want and how you want, or, you know, it being reliant on, on one car, and, and of course my wife needed it with the kids, meant that I missed out. And so I said to, to my wife, well, it turned out that I picked the job I got was at a nearby suburb um, I decided I'd get a bike. Um, I rode for a bit while we're down there and absolutely loved it. And, um, so for a couple of years I was bike riding, and that was, that was brilliant because I'd be out pretty much every day, and on weekends I'd do a ride, and I challenged myself with steep hills because I figured the resilience that I'd already built internally, combined that with the ability of riding up a really steep hill, meant that whatever was thrown at me during the week I could cope with. You know, it can't be any worse than doing this. And that pretty much went, you know, was the way it worked, um, which was going, which was going fine until one day when I, um, 100 meters from home in greasy weather, I came off my bike and fractured my hip. Oh, so yeah, right.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 50:33
Ouch. Yeah, yeah, right. Okay.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 50:37
And, um, yeah, and that sort of was the writing on the wall was from the— yeah, from bike riding from then on, um, from the family perspective. But we also had some fun times down the coast as well, so My daughter at the time, we often said she was the Sydney Morning Herald because there was no filter and she blurted out anything and everything. So one of the things that I used to do to try and lift my mood in Sydney was we'd have the radio on and I'd dance around like a stupid dad. And she'd say, what are you doing, Dad? And I'd say, well, I'm dancing to the radio. So I'd be dancing and she goes, yeah, we're dancing like a girl to the radio. So we'd go down to the— my wife would take her to daycare or to family group or whatever, and she'd be more than happy to tell one person, she'd tell 100 that my dad dances like a girl to the radio. And my wife would just like to, you know, find a corner to cringe.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 51:40
And yeah, kids don't know filters, I think. So, you know, so not their thing. So, okay. So it sounds like you've got back to Sydney. You've obviously with the bike riding, you had a bit of fitness going on up to a point. Fractured hip is never going to help. And you're living that life in Sydney, the Sydney life with the— yeah, two kids. Yep.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 52:10
And we had the bike made a huge difference. We felt we couldn't afford to have a second car at that time. And the bike was enough to give me my independence that I needed, that I could. And in actual fact, helped in more ways than one in terms of getting out there. There was a real successful period there with my the work I was doing. And at this stage as well, my mother got me in to see psychiatrist number 2 and also seeing my psychologist. And between the pair of them, both Mongrel and Henry were in their boxes and were quite happy to live in them. They're almost under lock and key, so to speak.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 53:09
And anyway, you mentioned earlier oil and fire, I think, though, or your family was about to going back.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 53:17
Yeah, yeah. So image, I, they, we copped a lot of family pressure for coming back to Sydney, a lot of family pressure to the point that one day, um, I was coming home for an interview or for something, and, um, it had got the better of me, and I had a car accident. Um, and it wasn't any— it wasn't anything in particular. It was just a buildup of what was sitting around. And I— it was— my wife and I have never really spoken about it, but we know what was said and how we understood it. Um, we knew that things needed to change or need to be different, and that's where I stopped becoming all things to all people and realizing that I can only really control things within my house or in my yard.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 54:31
Well, was that discussions with your wife or the psychologist or, or an internal thing for you? Where was that sitting, Peter?
Mark Henderson (Host) · 54:42
It was pretty much internal me that, that was that, plus I was conscious of what she needed and what we needed. And we were very welcoming back into the community, which made a big difference. Our son was able to go back to the school that he came from. The principal was just sensational. My daughter went to a different preschool when she came back, and that was no bad thing. My wife and I, we were strong. And I know that might sound a bit weird because we hadn't really spoken about this, but we knew enough between us that what was needed in terms of going forward. So from that aspect, we were able to sort of forge ahead. The, the bike, I can't credit enough for, to be honest. It was just, yeah, it was the change that, that we needed or that I needed. And I don't know whether or not having that earlier would have negated some of the issues that I faced or whether or not I still would have gone through them, but having post was, was enough to make it, you know, worthwhile. And, uh, was also able to— I could credit immensely for, for the recovery during that time.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 56:24
Mhm.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 56:26
Um, and in terms of then, um, I had about 5, 6 years, um, where Mongol and, and, um and Henry went around, they did come back. And I did have— I have had a couple of relapses since. And there's now a third person that I see, which is my GP, every couple of weeks because of that. And that some of those issues were primarily, um, exhaustion played a big part, which I don't think I really recovered from, from the work environment. Um, the department I worked for was changed to a different area, and as staff left, they weren't replaced. So in the end, there was about 5 or 6 of us that covered nationally and were doing all hours at all times, and, and that that just burnt out. Um, it was just— we were in a central office and all the work came to us. And when you've got a number of offices around Australia, um, that are sending you work, um, you know, it doesn't take long for it to pile up. Um, and, um, yeah, so exhaustion again played a role there. And unfortunately, by that stage, I was— the bike had gone. Exercise-wise, I've still sort of continued with either walking the dog or gym work at the time. And it just— yeah, then through COVID, we of course working from home, and I think that had its own impact. I think COVID has a lot to answer for. But one of the things that I was able to do was I had made some gardening projects, and that kept me occupied enough that when I wasn't working, I was out doing these things. But in the end, the exhaustion was enough that I ended up having to leave that company a couple of years ago.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 58:55
Was it Mongrel and Henry that destabilised the work? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you need to— so did you— have you— are you recognising the need to keep them in their cage, keep them chained? And oh yeah, do that.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 59:13
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm now back working again. I'm doing something entirely different these days and It, uh, mongrel has played a part in that as well. Um, and again, it's finding avenues that, um, help keep them in their box. Um, so, you know, the one I'm doing at the moment, um, is completely left field, so that I wouldn't have expected it to have the impact that it's had for me, but in a positive way. But, um, you know, just to, to expand on that is that I work as a driver, and, um, in doing that job for a while, Mongrel was behind the scenes saying, when are you going to have an accident? You know, you're going to have an accident. And sure enough, there was a period there where— I mean, they weren't major accidents, but though I'd be returning with a scratch here or a dent there or whatever. And it was sort of like, well, Mongrel was saying, I told you so. So he really is a mongrel. And yeah, so one of the things that I've done is to keep Mongrel in his box is there's an app that's out at the moment that measures your driving, and the higher you score, the better driver you are. And quite surprisingly, um, my driving's better than what I thought it was. So for— from off the back of that, Mungle's got nothing to say, which is good. And Henry's with him, and together they're having their own little, um, you know, fun in there, tied up in their box. And bit of luck we can keep them there.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 1:01:10
Putting a scale there.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 1:01:11
Yeah, yeah. And yeah, and so from that, from there, you know, I, I do feel the, the resilience, or that going back again, I think the big thing is the change from being in that tunnel to just looking at the weather and being able to sail on, on clean water. And being prepared that, you know, it may change tomorrow, but nothing— it's not forever.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 1:01:39
So that's really part of your lived learning, I guess.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 1:01:45
Yeah, yeah.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 1:01:46
Really, it's a— because they're really different images, right? They're really perspectives on the whole thing.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 1:01:52
So absolutely, yeah.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 1:01:54
If you're able to tap yourself on the shoulder back in 2000 or around that, or, you know, like, life was sort of on the surface looking really good, Olympics and job and all this sort of stuff. And, uh, would you just let that course run its course, or would you be saying to yourself, or whisper in your ear?
Mark Henderson (Host) · 1:02:17
Yeah, look, hindsight's a wonderful thing for us all, Mark. Um, you know, if I had that time again, I would have gone to Parramatta with the rest, with the majority of the team that I worked with. And I'd have no doubt that I could have gone on to bigger and better things. And, you know, but the other side of the coin is what I've experienced and what I've gone through from You know, even now, like, there's two things. Like, firstly, you know, I have no regrets or no issues with any of the people that I've worked for. Yeah, yes, some ugly things were said, but being able to identify that and know that, you know, they're just words I actually used to hold a glass to the company that fired me because that 10K, I learned more in that 10K about who I became and how I became. And I mean, whilst it basically completed the fit out that stopped me, that moved me from being a tinny to being the Queen Mary, you know, it— so You know, it's like a sliding doors moment, really, going back to 2000 and the changes. At the other side of it, you know, what I do now is fantastic. I love the people that I'm around. And, you know, everybody I work with has a common cause. Everybody, you know, management, all we're We're all individuals, but we're called for the calling of what we do. And from that aspect, I wouldn't change that for the world. And I don't know if I'd gone some way, I mean, if I'd gone the initial way, whether where I'd be. But it's taken me a long time, but I'm in a happy place.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 1:04:40
Sure, I can, I can hear. I mean, you talk about sliding doors, but most of your imagery is around being on an ocean and a ship and different possibilities that go with that.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 1:04:51
Okay, exactly.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 1:04:52
Peter, is there anything else you'd particularly like to share, or any thoughts about, um, some of the, the bits of the cracks where the gold have filled in?
Mark Henderson (Host) · 1:05:02
If there's one thing that, that if we potentially finish on, I don't know. But as a kid, I never ate Brussels sprouts, and I couldn't digest them at all. And they served them in hospital when I was— and when I ate, I forced myself to eat them and actually liked them. So it was sort of little differences or challenges that Yeah, as things change, you just become more open, I guess.
Peter Donnell (Guest) · 1:05:39
Life has that journey aspect to it. So, okay, well, we'll end it there. Thank you, Peter Donald, for sharing so openly and telling us your story. And thank you. And that chain of events that come through and the perspective sharing of the ocean. So Thank you, Peter, and I encourage anyone to listen to this and hear what might be that little bit of gold in the story that helps them with their journey too. Thanks, Peter.
Mark Henderson (Host) · 1:06:15
Thanks, Mark. Thank you for listening to this episode of Kintsugi Heroes. Thank you to Colin Lillie for permission to use Broken as our theme music for this series. If you enjoyed this conversation, share the podcast with a friend and let us know by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to support Kintsugi Heroes and the stories we share, head to kintsugiheroes.com.au and follow the instructions to make a tax- deductible donation. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.
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