Peter Hunter · 59 min
Elected as mayor just weeks before the 2022 River Murray floods peaked, Peter Hunter drew on decades of school leadership to protect his town, combat dangerous misinformation, and hold a fractured community together through one of South Australia's worst natural disasters.
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Peter Hunter became mayor of Renmark just weeks before the 2022 River Murray floods peaked. With no disaster management playbook, he leaned on decades of school leadership to hold his fractured community together while fielding 3 to 5 media requests daily, battling dangerous misinformation online, and making impossible decisions about which properties could be protected.
Renmark's council decided early that they were best placed to manage the crisis. They had the contacts, the community support, and the local knowledge. Peter's first move was to ask his CEO and senior staff what value he could add, rather than assuming he had all the answers. When media outlets wanted drama over context, Peter matched their stories with facts he had and admitted plainly what he did not know yet. When frightened people came to him, he listened, wrote down their concerns, showed genuine respect for their views, and connected them to real resources. He even visited the recovery centre without revealing his title, so he could see what people actually experienced when they asked for help.
The hardest part was explaining to people outside the levees why their properties could not be protected when timelines and resources were finite. There are still no easy answers. Two years on, Peter now says rural mental health is South Australia's most pressing issue, worse than during the flood itself. Farmers, men, and families are quietly suffering as recovery stretches on and crisis attention moves away. He pushes the state government to act on the critical shortage of rural psychologists. The levees sit on 300 pieces of private land with no clear ownership or maintenance plan. The work, he says, is far from finished.
“I think to listen and to understand. So to really try and feel how the people are placed and what their issues are.”
“The number of rural psyches in South Australia is worse than Mongolia. It's the lowest in the country of Australia.”
“Here's Fred and Harry and George and Mary that normally are competing with each other. They're sharing the best way to create this mound in this position at this height.”
The hero, today
Peter sat down with his CEO and senior staff at the start and asked what value he could add, rather than assuming he had all the answers, and that humble first step shaped his whole approach to the crisis. When the media wanted to sensationalise the flood, Peter matched their story with facts he did have, and when he didn't have facts yet, he said so plainly instead of spinning or reassuring people he didn't believe. Peter walked through the Barmah recovery centre without telling anyone he was the mayor, so he could see what people actually experienced when they asked for help, and then he could speak truthfully about what resources were really available. The hardest decisions Peter made were about the people outside the levees, and he says there are still no easy answers, only the acknowledgment that tight timelines and finite resources meant some properties could not be protected. Peter believes rural mental health in South Australia is now the nation's most pressing issue, worse than during the flood itself, and he is pushing the state government to recognise the shortage of rural psychologists and act on it. Peter sees the levees as unfinished business: they sit on 300 pieces of private land, and no one has yet resolved who maintains them or how Renmark will pump floodwater out if the next event combines high river flow with heavy rainfall.
Yes. Peter Hunter is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Peter sat down with his CEO and senior staff at the start and asked what value he could add, rather than assuming he had all the answers, and that humble first step shaped his whole approach to the crisis.
When the media wanted to sensationalise the flood, Peter matched their story with facts he did have, and when he didn't have facts yet, he said so plainly instead of spinning or reassuring people he didn't believe.
Peter walked through the Barmah recovery centre without telling anyone he was the mayor, so he could see what people actually experienced when they asked for help, and then he could speak truthfully about what resources were really available.
John Milham (Host) · 00:00
Kintsugi Heroes brings you the following River Murray flood recovery story, jointly funded by the Commonwealth and South Australian governments under the Disaster Recovery Funding Arrangements. To find out more about this podcast, head to kintsugiheroes.com.au. The 2022 River Murray floods in South Australia were caused by record water inflows from the Murray-Darling Basin due to heavy upstream rainfall. The slowly rising floodwaters inundated homes, businesses, and farmland, causing widespread displacement, infrastructure damage, and agricultural losses. The disaster significantly impacted local economies, communities, and led to the region's long-term recovery. In this special limited series of Kintsugi Heroes, John Milham sits down with members of the Riverlands community and gives them space to share their experiences of their personal diversity and community resilience. It's only through connection and empathy that there can be a path to recovery. In this episode of River Murray Recovery Stories, John Milham is joined by Peter Hunter. We explore Peter's journey as the Mayor of Redmark during the 2022 floods. Elected just as the crisis began, Peter applied his longstanding experience in education and community leadership to navigate the challenges ahead. Despite the flood's threat, Peter focused on bringing the community together, ensuring open communication and effective teamwork. His leadership included managing media narratives and respecting local knowledge to devise practical solutions for flood management. Through collaboration and resilience, Peter guided his town, highlighting the importance of unity and preparedness in facing nature's challenges. So ladies and gentlemen and listeners at Kuntugi Heroes, welcome to another session, another special session for our series documenting stories of the Riverland and Murrayland floods in 2022, the Riverland Recovery Stories. And again, like I usually say, we're very privileged. Today we have somebody who, when I was in recently down there, your name kept coming up, right? People were, you know, very excited to tell me about, um, your escapades. Uh, Peter Hunter, the mayor of Renmark, uh, thank you so much for joining Kintsugi.
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 02:35
My pleasure, and thank you for the interest, mate.
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The hardest decisions Peter made were about the people outside the levees, and he says there are still no easy answers, only the acknowledgment that tight timelines and finite resources meant some properties could not be protected.
This conversation includes a new mayor, a rising river, the council steps in where others couldn't, media calls from morning to night, a principal's training in community and media, the river is everything and the 4 percenters and the sensationalised news cycle.
John Milham (Host) · 02:38
Uh, it's, um, speaking of interest, right, I remember somebody telling me that, uh, you know, you, you would just been introduced to the job. Obviously you'd been on the council for quite a few years, but, um, a freshly elected new mayor, uh, and I think that was November. And of course, by that stage, the water was starting to become a pressing issue, right, with, uh, the peak eventually sort of, uh, early January. So how does a freshly elected mayor suddenly, you know, deal with having to keep his new charge dry and safe?
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 03:25
There's an interesting question. You go into these things never being quite sure what's going to eventuate. We take on new roles and such, and this one was certainly quite different for me. The joy was that our CEO and senior staff had already made some decisions look, we really don't know what this is going to pan out like, but we've got to get started. We're having difficulty with trying to understand how any other body could deal with what we thought was going to happen apart from Council. We had the contacts, we had the links, we had strong community support. It's quite different from somebody apart from the Army coming in, and they weren't going to do that. The assurances we'd had historically were, oh, don't worry, Remmat Puringa, when we have an issue, we'll be there, we'll help you. They just didn't have the ability that Councillor did. So there was that reassurance, I think, that senior staff had already taken some steps, and then to walk into the role and say, how can I value-add to this? What can I do? And one of the big things was to deal with the media. So we were getting 3, 4, 5 a day. You'd talk on the phone and yes, I'll speak with you, only to find out that you're doing a video call with ABC National. The next one I talk about ABC, and you'd be talking to the local ABC. It was really interesting working through those things and just amazing the people that showed interest and support for us. And I would never have thought that I'd meet the Governor-General and his wife. I'd never thought that we'd sing a song in our chambers because his wife was very much into singing. And I never thought that we'd, that we'd be able to meet Cabinet 3 or 4 times and the Premier. Yeah, these people Reflect really showed me that we've got some good people in the places we need them. And now politics aside, you know, forget that. These people came, they were genuine, and they offered support in whatever way they could. And that was really assuring at that time, reassuring at that time when nobody knew how much water, how fast, when it was coming, how long it was going to stay. Lots of people had views, as you can imagine, you know, but no one knew for sure. So they were very interesting times.
John Milham (Host) · 05:37
So like, you— there's so much in that answer to unpack, and I'm sure we'll get a chance to go through a lot of it. I do want to go back a little bit because like I'm hearing, uh, you know, you, you've, you know, rightly, um, uh, given a, you know, the first comment is a pat in the back for your team, which is, you know, credit to you as a leader. But, um, what made Peter Hunter ready You know, like, because what you've just described, right, Renmark had a particularly, um, decisive approach, you know, and certainly as a result, the outcomes were, you know, like, there are still people in across the board and in the region that suffered and had challenges as a result. It's, you know, there were tragic outcomes, but I think there was a, you know, overall you'd have to be very pleased with the level of remediation that was done by you guys. But what made Peter the right man for the job?
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 06:40
There's an interesting self-reflection for me, isn't it? Well, people have commented about the communications and the links within Council, and to some extent that, or major extent, that's staff. But being able to sit down with them and pick that up and then relate that to media was really important to me. And I guess in preparation, I'd been able to do quite a bit of media in my role as principal of a local school for many years and some district and statewide work that I'd done there. So media wasn't new to me. I think there's always new aspects to it that you don't anticipate. The next question, perhaps yours, as to where it's going to go or what background I should have provided when you hang up after you've had the chat. But I did have some background there. I had incredible support from staff. And the community was generally really, really supportive, but there was that small percentage. I always talk about the 4 percenters. There's the 4 percenters that will go for you regardless, the 4 percenters that will never ever come around to your point of view. So it was very much in my mind about how can we answer in a factual way when we don't really have the facts yet, but we've got a considered opinion about how we're moving forward. How do we relay that in the best way possible to community? And I think just keeping having that focus again and again and again, uh, kept me on a path, if you'd like. I'm not sure that's quite where you wanted to go, but that's my first reflection on it.
John Milham (Host) · 08:01
Well, I'd point out, you know, you mentioned, uh, you know, you'd been a principal of a local school, and that's like, I understand that's quite some years. So had you been a teacher all your life?
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 08:12
Uh, yes, yes. I started back in 1977, outer suburbs of, uh, of Adelaide, a new school. We walked in there. I think there were 8 of us walked in. They anticipated 150 children and they had over 300. It was, uh, it was interesting, uh, but a great way to start because we're all new. No one knew a thing. If I think back, no one knew, had any idea what we should be doing, how we should be doing it. Then we moved to Riverton in the Mid North, did some acting positions around there. Uh, then we moved on to the West Coast, uh, principal of a school over there. And then, uh, 16 years at, uh, Renmark North. And, um, I was able to pick up regional, uh, issues and statewide issues. You know, school buses were always a classic. I used to talk about it. Yeah, my shoulder twitches every time someone mentions school buses because there was always a school bus issue.
John Milham (Host) · 08:59
Yeah, uh, the— it's a— to be, you know, my observation is it's a— Wrenmark's beautiful and the river is beautiful, but it's not an easy place to live. Any of that area down through, you know, the land is a tough place. So you've got broadacre farming, you've got, you know, mining and minerals, you've got, um, you know, the river and tourism, of course. So how did, you know, how did your principal time and so on prepare you to want to help out on a local level, you know, join the council as a councillor and face some of those issues?
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 09:36
Uh, schools are a very interesting mix of people and understandings, beliefs. Backgrounds and to listen, to hear and be involved, whether it be the sports day and cheering from the side or whether it be a special fundraising or we had tavernas there. We had a taverna, 300 people, 50 people in a hall, Greek dancing, the whole play was in Greek. Those sorts of involvements I think helps you to understand avenues and ways to support and how broad the beliefs and the backgrounds are for people. What are those common points that can bring us together? I think they're really important to find those, whether it be in a school setting or in a broader community setting as I am now. So finding those points, finding and bringing people to those was incredibly important.
John Milham (Host) · 10:24
Yeah, I have, do you, my impression was the river is at the center of everything in that area. Is that true?
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 10:34
Absolutely. Yeah. So Wrenmark without the river would be effectively a desert. For those that come from Adelaide through the Truro Hills as you go out into the flats there. I'm not sure if you came that way or not, but it is desert-like saltbush. Yeah. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 10:49
Yeah.
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 10:49
There's less trees there than the Nullarbor in many parts of it. Wow. But the river is just such a beautiful thing. And the water that provides for our growers, and we can talk about some of the issues that are there at the moment around water supply and buybacks and the rest of it., but provides a magnificent place to, to live, to work, to play. And, uh, we just love the river. My wife and I have, uh, canoes and a small boat. We trundle up to the local creeks and spend the day paddling down them. Um, so there's, there's whole different aspects. So you go past a, a family on a sandbank, the chairs are actually in the water and the children are playing around them. You know, there are so many magnificent things to do. You see the house go, boat go past and there's 3 or 4 families on there together and the music and the singing. You know, it's just so much to enjoy through our countryside, if you like. So different. We go overseas and there's people everywhere. There's big buildings everywhere. It's been super developed everywhere. And north of Renmark, for example, national parks, you can pull up your boat, camp overnight, hear the birds. It's just beautiful.
John Milham (Host) · 11:53
Yeah, and there are lots of birds.
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 11:55
I can attest to that.
John Milham (Host) · 11:57
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 16:52
There's several parts to that. I think locally it was, we had some of that 4% that I mentioned earlier. Who had gone to maps and they'd said, well, there's this much coming out the Hume, this much out the Dartmouth, this much coming in Murrumbidgee, and this amount's coming out the Darling. Add 'em up together, therefore we will have a flood greater than 1931. And '31 was higher than 1956. We should all be panicking and running away. Quite unfair and unreasonable. People looked at Lismore and the floods they've had every, I don't know, 16 outta 17 years or whatever it is. This is not Lismore. The water that we get has traveled thousands of kilometers to get here, and it would only come if we've had one or two wet years prior. And we've got a few months, or at least 6 weeks as we had this time around, to prepare our defenses. So there's a group out there that for whatever reason, um, and I can't get into their motives because I don't really know, thought that they were experts and, and pumped that out. That was disappointing and hard to beat. We just had to match it, as I said, with the facts that we did have. The other bit was the media, the majority of which was good. There's one television station in Adelaide in particular that, you know, you'd go out with and you'd be on a bank and filming and they'd take up an hour of your time. They'd put 1 or 2 minutes to, if at best, to screen. I understand the need for that. But, you know, if you focus on the Tree of Knowledge, was a good example, you focus on the Tree of Knowledge at Loxton, and do your video cameraing that shows there are no campsites there being used because it's flooded and your knees are underwater. Okay, pan to the left, please. Show how we've managed— and this is not Ramat Council, this is Loxton— show how we've managed this issue. And to your left, pan around 30 degrees, and you can see all those caravans sitting up there. So there was a sense at which they wanted to sensationalize And I get the media and advertisers and all the rest of it, but that just made it that much harder to manage. And I had a call from a lady from the United States, believe it or not. Now, her grandmother lived in Renmark West and was scared witless because the water was going to go in. So it, it wasn't just little old Renmark or the strip down to Murray Bridge or just South Australia. It was national and international because of the links that people had. And it's all they heard sometimes was the negative stuff. It just made it really difficult to, uh, to, to, to manage in that sense. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 19:22
Wow.
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 20:03
Well, the first thing I guess in any of those discussions is to show respect. The majority of that group, I'm not talking about the 4%, a bigger group who had genuine concerns passed on by their parents and grandparents and the rest of it. So show respect to their views. But the building of the levees, for example, is a great example, which I use multiple times. In 1956, it was raining and raining heavily and they used their little Fergies and they pushed the soil up and there were lives lost and there were Many, many examples of people being in high levels of danger. There's no doubt about those pictures of that. And here we are with the B-triples side tipping, putting hundreds of tonnes, and then we'd go and compact it, we'd level it, we'd measure it with the GPS, and we'd say, look, this is 0.3 of a metre short of the level that we required. Get me another one. And then we had examples which I could share of, look, there is an embankment being eroded here. So what we did was, because we inspected them every day, whole 38 kilometers, okay, we'll dump another 6 truckloads of rubble down there because that's out there ready to go. So I was able, particularly as we worked through it, to share the stories and do the comparisons for them. And I think generally they picked up on that, particularly the technological bit. You know, they have a GPS to say this is at 56 level behind the hospital. We know we've got a 1.5 meter. Between the anticipatory and the hike. That's really important. They didn't necessarily believe all of that because, you know, it's deeper, isn't it? That emotional link with what granddad said and all the rest of it. But absolutely. But, you know, you kept revisiting these things, came up with new examples and shared it with them. And the result at the end, people were just so happy and, you know, kudos to everyone, not to me, but to everyone involved. And, you know, one of the real highlights was the way that The contractors said, uh, you know, who are normally competing with each other, and Tony may have shared this stuff too, but, um, he called them in, spoke with them, gave them the price he's willing to pay, and they all came on board. And then for me to be able to share the story that I listened to a little bit of their talk on the two-way. Here's Fred and Harry and George and Mary that normally are competing with each other. They're sharing the best way to create this mound in this position at this height, make sure the compaction's right. At the same time, they're talking with the engineers. At the same time, they're talking back with council. This is magnificent for a community to be able to show.
John Milham (Host) · 22:30
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 24:06
Yeah, that was one of the most difficult ones of all. Because we, we built mostly on top of the 1956 levees, not everywhere, because there were some better spots that could be utilized to incorporate people. But there are multiple people outside of those who wanted us to build our levees in a different position to protect their, their properties. To do that would have meant that the timeline to complete works would have been extended. And there was some very difficult decisions there, and it's very hard to relay why we can't go around your property in the same way. So there's no easy answers to that one, apart from hard decisions had to be made, very tight timeline. And I think we judged it pretty well in the end. But look, there will always be people that think you could have done it better or faster or higher or whatever you like. But I, there are very few of those when it gets down to it. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 25:06
Well, you, of course, um, you know, the, the buck stops with you in terms of the local community. So people would have brought their, their trouble and suffering to you. How was it from a personal point of view that, you know, you had to, you know, talk and listen and share and, and hopefully, you know, support people who were struggling and who, you know, who were suffering a great deal of loss.
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 25:34
I guess the saving grace there was having contact and resources. So to be able to point to the online communications which staff put up, that was really important. You know, will it flood if it goes 56? Will it flood my property even though I'm outside the Barrens? Can you go to this map? Here it is. Have a look at that. That's your best judge. So to be able to direct them to that, and staff were exceptional the way they had that set up. Secondly was the federal government's organisation and setup of the centre there at Barmah where people could go and ask for help, whether it be in an emotional side of things or dollars or accommodation, you know, that was really set up well, really set up well. And to be able to reflect that to people is good. To better understand the hospital and their processes, early on I thought, oh, you're taking people out too early. But when it, as it evolved, you could see they had a plan and it was so well thought out. And so those that were bedridden and less able to move first, et cetera, their plans worked fantastically well. And it was great to see that roll out. But I've got to tell you, early on I'm thinking, oh no, this makes it look worse than it actually is. Oh no, have I been spinning people? No, you know, that sort of thing. But that was the best I could do to relate back to the services that were available, the people that were available. And look, just admit up front, look, I really don't know. Can I take your name and number? I'll follow through as best I can. But I couldn't provide guarantees for some people and you can't string them along. You just got to say as best you can, look, I really don't know. We'll get back as soon as I can with an update. And yeah, sometimes that update wasn't what they wanted. I get that, particularly those few that were outside of our barriers. RIMAC didn't have many. Some other places had many more. Um, and just do the best you can in that sense.
John Milham (Host) · 27:24
What, um, you know, uh, Peter, you, you, you, you've rightly had a lot of people, um, you know, give you an attaboy, a pat on the back for the work you've done. What, what do you think are the qualities you would, you would, um, advise someone to, you know, to look, look for or promote or develop if they're going to be in these kind of, you know, roles that might have to take on some of this stuff?
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 27:52
I think to listen and to understand. So to really try and feel how the people are placed and what their issues are. I'm a big one for writing things down. So I would jot down the 4 or 5 or 6, 10, whatever it is, key issues for them. I think the second bit is to show true respect. So there's the understanding aspect, then there's the respect. And I think that the third bit is about knowledge. So having that knowledge base that I talked about then about the things I did know about, and then value adding as I learned more along the way to be able to then ring someone up, I've just found a new resource, ring this number and they'll help you with X, Y, and Z. So there was that constant flow, that circle, if you like, of, oh, I can get back to them. I've now learned this little new bit because there certainly wasn't a Bible or a book to follow about how to do things. It was it was on the run. And again, staff had, had most of that. But in a personal sense, it was, it was similar, but the intensity was quite different. And, um, yeah, the impact's quite different. I think when you sit down with people that are genuinely scared, um, and, uh, and what we are trying to do, how we are trying to help, um, and just get back to them later on as best you can. But the resources were fairly good, um, at, uh, at Barmah there. And better reflect and send people there was important. I actually went to the Barmah Centre and said, oh, you know, what resources are available for me? I'm living in Randmark, without telling my role. And I found that useful too, to be able to reflect back to the leadership of that group. Perhaps you shouldn't front your first discussion with, oh dear, oh dear, you know. But that's just my mind trying to get a real sense of how these things work. As opposed to assuming everything's great.
John Milham (Host) · 29:37
I love that idea. So, you know, like, um, uh, you know, uh, secret shopping, you know, so you were the, you were the, uh, the local secret shopper for, uh, for, you know, flood support. That's great. You mentioned, uh, you know, learning, right? And there wasn't a lot of learning in place. There wasn't. So there was a, uh, you know, there were a lot of myths around earlier floods. Like '74 and, you know, '56, of course, and so on. What, what, um, now, you know, you have gone through the getting of wisdom, right? You know, in the hard, hard way. So, well, what would you do now? Is there a plan to sort of, you know, perhaps this is some of that process, right? But how do you prepare future mayors and future citizens?
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 35:50
The recovery for infrastructure has been really difficult. So the first part of it, in terms of those levies and the government paying for it, Fantastic. State government couldn't have been more helpful in that. Then we have some rules about building back better or building back as it was. And again, I'm guessing the CEO spoke about this, but the regulations talk about if you build it back as it was, then you'll get a higher percentage of funding than if you build back better. Now I get the government doesn't want you building the Taj Mahal or a bridge that, you know, goes 30 meters above what it needs to and all that sort of thing., but for us to build back on our 21st Street Bridge, the same thing that existed there, well, it's going to get wiped out next time and the time after. But if we apply for higher level funding, i.e., let's build it back so it will stand 120 gig and it will be able to do this and the water flow will be that. No, no, no, no, no, no. You get a lower amount of money. Just some crazy things like that. And then we go and talk to interstate councils. And Queensland, for example, they had, because it was declared an emergency, and they get so many floods up there, but their state government releases through the, from the feds, but through the state government, something like 40% funding as soon as it's declared. Okay, that we see that bridge is gone. Here's 40%. It'll help you work through things. Not in South Australia. Okay, you work through, you build your bridge. When you finish, send us the accounts. Hang on a minute. We've spent, I don't know what the total is now. It could be $25 million. That's more than a full year's rate revenue and no more than that. Our total income is far less than that. So some of the state rules have just got to be modified in line with what other states do. And we've got to prepare for the next time. We've just got as a nation, not just South Australia, as a nation to prepare ourselves for the next fire, earthquake, flood, whatever that major thing might be. We've got to prepare for it better than we have in the past.
John Milham (Host) · 37:46
The writing's on the wall with the current sort of trend, you know, like the last 10 years have been the 10 hottest years in history, et cetera. And, um, in some ways Australia can be a marginal place to live, right? Um, and it takes tough people doing tough things. What do you think will help us get through this period?
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 38:05
I think that preparation is part of it. Uh, and the second bit would be that sharing of knowledge. Uh, we've just recently traveled to Mount Isa and came across, uh, down through Longreach and, and down to Dalby and such. And some of that torrential rain that was coming down, I didn't truly understand the Channel Country until a day behind us was significant water coming down through these channels and we were just ahead of it, how quickly it can change. But Queensland, for example, have SES and doctors and nurses and all sorts of people that can see what's coming. They sent them out. So there was someone at Longreach, there was someone else at Mount Isa and someone else at Dalby and someone else. They were there to see what happened and report back from the ground about what's actually happening in this town. Their preparation didn't need it in the end, but was magnificent compared to what some other states perhaps that don't get the floods as often. So I think there's a lot of learnings we can gain from each other, and I'd love to see some national approach to some of this in terms of building back better.
John Milham (Host) · 45:25
And Of course, you know, post-natural disaster, there tends to be, and you know, men are a particular concern. So, you know, being, having, keeping an eye on your men, the, you know, the quiet ones, the stoic ones, the ones that have been through amazing stuff, right? That becomes an important part of the recovery process.
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 45:49
Absolutely. The difference is though that the contact that I would have had to them with them during the flood and other council members is quite different to post. Uh, and, and, uh, people that withdraw, you, you really don't know. The other bit is to really recognize the support that women are giving in that circumstance too, putting up with, uh, fellas that aren't their normal self, uh, or working themselves, uh, to the absolute to the bone to, to, to keep the family alive and, and active and supportive. And then there's the impact on children. And, and so it flows through to schools and counselors and all those sorts of things. You can't, you can't control, you just got to put what you can in place in the background and then work to share what resources are available to those different groups.
John Milham (Host) · 46:34
So, you know, clearly, um, you know, that's an important aspect, like, as well as, so the, you know, we talked about infrastructure, there's no, there's the physical resources and then there's the human resources that are necessary. How do you get enough? Do you, you know, can we ask, you know, the universe? Can we ask the government? What, who are we asking?
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 47:02
Uh, we can just keep working at it. I mean, to me, mental health, uh, is, is probably the number one issue for us as a nation. This is me personally, not Councillor's view. Um, The number of rural psychs, for example, in South Australia is worse than Mongolia. It's the lowest in the country of Australia. We have a very, very poor system of trained psychs in rural South Australia. Now that's impacted massively then when you have an issue like this or a flood or a fire or whatever it might be. And we've spoken as a council to region and then to the state and the state LGA has gone, Local Government Association has gone to the minister for health trying to get some changes around this. But there, I mean, we've got farmers going through drought at the moment. Uh, they've come out of flood. We've got people on their blocks who had issues with China and, uh, and the tariffs and not being able to sell their red wine. And now they don't have enough money to sell their block and go and live anywhere else. It's, it's issue after issue. And it's not just for us. We think across the country. So how we manage this I don't think we could ever have enough resources, but I think we need to recognize the key areas where we're deficient. And to me, one of those is about rural mental health and our inability as a state to deal with that. Uh, and that I certainly have endorsement from Council, Region, and State around that. And I've got documentation that shows how bad it actually is. So how we get a real change in that, I don't have an answer apart from keep pushing the pushing the barrow, if you like, as I am now. But we've just got to do better in that for normal day-to-day life, let alone when we have to arc up to support people at a higher level with disaster.
John Milham (Host) · 51:24
The, um, I, I love a story I, I heard while I was down there. Um, the water lapping up at Christmas time and their place was just behind the levee. And they had their Christmas barbecue on the levee while watching the water come through. So I thought that was a classic example of making joy out of challenge. And so many examples of it are through Renmark and region. So what do you, you know, when the Peter Hunter wing of the library is is, uh, you know, sort of sorted out down the track. Um, what do you— what, what is going to be the description there? Like, uh, what— how, how would your handling and your— yeah, what do you, um, what you hope is remembered through this period?
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 52:22
Yeah, I don't, I don't go there. I'll leave that for others to, uh, to play with. It's a bit like what your epitaph will be on your gravestone. I think I'll leave that for others. I just emphasize again the importance of that team within council that did an absolutely incredible job. And at a state level too, the people that came on board and helped. I think there's got to be a broader recognition about that rather than say, look, Peter happened to be the mayor at the time, congratulations. I don't take that on board. I hope I played my part. I hope people see that. But I think there's a bigger picture there about how the township of of Redmuck, Prengar and Lerp, how the community of Redmuck, Prengar and Lerp came together to deal with this and, and how we've evolved after this. I think that's the story rather than a nameplate, a tag, or a plaque.
John Milham (Host) · 53:08
Yeah. Well, do you love your, um, town?
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 53:11
Oh, absolutely. And, and the community— there's some great people up here, there's, there's no doubt about that. And we've been here some 28, 30 years or now because we moved around the state, as I said earlier, with, with my teaching and and principal roles. And there's some great people. And some people don't like it, but you know, you walk down the street and they go shopping, and I say to the wife sometimes, oh, look, no one will recognize us. Or, you know, you see, you think we'll see someone we know? Absolutely. Two steps in the door. There's something nice about that. Some people don't like it. I get that. And that was same with my role at Redmout North School. I value those discussions and listening to people and the smile on their face and I go to Adelaide at times and walk down the mall. I'm not sure if you have in the city closest to you. Um, I don't remember the tally now, but it was something like 1 in 30 had a smile and the rest of them were, the biggest majority were stuck with their head in the phone and the others were just frowning and sad and upset. I think there's more to life than that and I'd love to see that and that's the joy that comes back to me within the Rymat Purungurin Luram.
You don't have to be in crisis to call.
Yeah. The natural beauty, I, I, I can't, you know, I, I, I fail to explain how dramatic that landscape is, right? I was completely, I'd been down the other end of the, of the river, obviously, but to be, to come up from Adelaide and then through, you know, Murray Bridge and then, you know, along the, the lands, I, it, it was so significant. I. I, I captured a little bit, but I still discovered that, uh, you guys, the, you know, you are genuinely river people, right? Yeah, you know, you, there's a certain smile that comes over your face when I ask you if you like living by the river, right?
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 12:41
So we were brought up at, uh, Semaphore, born at Birkenhead, so spent early days with Sea Scouts and sailing on the, on the ocean waves, if you like. Um, so we love that as, as children. And then the Mid North and West Coast were quite different again. We had a little trailer sailor off of— we lived at Louth Bay, and yeah, that was beautiful itself. But there's something quite different about the river. You know, if we go upriver, we can always go around the bend and find a quiet spot, you know. And we don't have a tide, which is really nice.
John Milham (Host) · 13:11
Yeah, spectacular for sure. So do you feel, um, Because I noted how connected everybody is to the river and to the, how significant it is as a place.
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 13:26
Is there a sense of custodianship? Oh, absolutely. If we talk about caring for our landscape and caring for our river, all for different reasons. So if I'm a grower, I'm worried about salinity or water quality or water supply. If I'm living here as I am now and love to canoe, then there's that aspect. And I also don't want to see the blue-green algae come down from interstate, or, or I don't want to see the carp continue to muddy up the water and those sorts of things. So every person has their own perspective on it, but all of us have families in one way or another. All of us have connections to that river, whether it be pulling up a dinghy and heading off at 20 kilometers an hour to find my favorite fishing spot. And there's plenty of people that do that, to just being able to take pictures at sunrise and sunset. Everyone has a connection in one form or another, and to have it continue as it is, we all need to play our part. And some see that more obviously than others. When you're 17 and in a rush to find out about the world, you'd see it a bit differently than perhaps someone of my age that has traveled a little bit and can reflect on some of those important things in life.
John Milham (Host) · 14:37
With the river running through the various communities, you know, so Randmark at one end and Murray-Brute at the other. Do you, is it healthy? Is, are there, I, do you think your communities are doing it well?
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 14:52
I think the Murray-Darling Basin Authority, for all the things that get thrown around, is in the right direction. Now, whether they should be buying back as much as they will, the government is, that's a whole nother story. Personally, I'd like to see that drawn back a little bit. 'cause that impacts so many communities intensely. But the water quality is actually quite good at the moment. Part of that is because the flood washed away things. I did see a barbecue going down the Murray with its gas bottle still attached. I did see water tanks floating down there, and I'm not sure how Murray Bridge felt about them floating past or the Adelaideites thought about it floating onto their beautiful beaches. But there was a cleansing moment through it all. But prior to that, the salinity had been managed and managed pretty well. We've got a way to go. It'll never be back to the 1700s or 1800s where you could look crystal clear down through the water. Some of that's about carp, of course. The actual management of the river, I think we've moved great strides to improve that and improve the quality, which everyone benefits. If you're in Adelaide, you need that good water coming through from the Mount Empire. If you're in Whyalla, you need the same. Port Lincoln. So much of the state depends on that Murray. It's not just about us that love to be on it. Um, 90% of the state, well, that might be unfair, but a very high percentage of the state needs a healthy River Murray.
John Milham (Host) · 16:17
It's beautiful. Uh, you talked about how you, the very first challenge was dealing with the media. Um, and I, I've spoken to Tony, the CEO, and he, you know, he, he, he was quite quite hit by the media, right? There was quite a lot of negative media out there. What was that about? Why, what on earth were people asking questions about the impending flood?
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 19:22
Yeah, that's a good explanation.
John Milham (Host) · 19:24
You mentioned, you know, just your job, you know, like was to, to, you know, front up and to be available and to pass on facts and, and, and so on. One thing I, I was fascinated by was the, the amount of lore. So the locals have, you know, theories about the river, right? As much as they've, you know, so their grandfathers and, you know, the old timers have certain ideas and new timers. So how did you sort through, you know, all the locals with all their wisdom around the river?
Yeah, I was so impressed too. In many ways, Renmark were right on best practice, and we know that, you know, other towns were trying to solve problems that you guys did well at and shared some of the info and so on. How would you rate that whole process, right, for the region, right? Because it was a long, a large area to care for.
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 22:55
Yeah, it's difficult to rate other regions and I won't go there. Is all I can really comment on is about what we did it and why we did it. Um, and that gets back to leadership and not me necessarily, but the CEO and his small team made some really hard decisions in the early days. We didn't know we're going to be funded fully. Um, we didn't really know the timelines or the height or anything else about it. And we need to realize that water coming past Renmark in a normal year at that time might be 10 or 12 gig. Um, that was nearly, um, 190 gig, you know, total Adelaide supply every single day flowing past. So, you know, it was just a massive difference between the two. Hmm. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 23:38
And, uh, and the, the, the levees themselves, right, proved to be such a, um, uh, you know, a, a powerful, uh, tool for, for protecting, you know, Renmark in many ways. But not everyone was, you know, was within the levees. Well, what was it like dealing with people who were sitting outside and were going to be flooded?
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 30:30
Yeah, there's an interesting one, isn't it? Because if we do have a flood, the constraints, the flow, the timing's going to be different. The availability of workers and contractors will probably be different. The solutions, while there'll be a similarity, will be different. So I guess the answer to me is we need to rely on what Department of Environment and Water have in place in terms of their measurement. 'Cause it's not just flow, it's the heights. And that was one of the early learnings that CEO, again, may have spoken of. Okay, the flow over the border might be 100 gig at this stage or 120 or whatever it was at that time. But that made a big difference one side of town to the other. And there could have been half a meter difference from one side to the other. So it wasn't uniform and all that. So going back to that data and documenting it properly, Having those discussions, even as we are now, is a sense of a learning for someone that might be listening. And then us as a council doing our review and jotting our notes down about it. But there's no doubt that the next incident, and I don't know when it'll be, but there'll be high water and floods at some point. That's just nature. But what that'll look like, no one knows. Hopefully there'll be some of us still surviving to share stories. Not all of it's documented. But you can't document everything. So yes, you've got to live through these things and work them out as issues arise.
John Milham (Host) · 31:59
What did you learn as a person, as a mayor, and as a member of your community?
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 32:08
Again, there's a half an hour in that probably too. I think I mentioned earlier about the people that I met along the way. Some of those people in high positions, from the Police Commissioner to the Governor-General to the Prime Minister and all those. And again, just reflecting, I, I've, I felt a certain positive aspect, I suppose, that you've got— sometimes we've got the right people in the right place, and it's not what we see in the media. Um, we're only told what people want to share with us sometimes. So I was, I was very pleased about that side of it. Personally, I think there were some relationships within Council that grew for me, and I hope others found that a useful thing for me playing my part in that. I think there were some learnings within Council and my elected members about what we're doing, why we're doing it, how we're doing it. And I'd like to think some of those things that we came back and talked to them about along the way was of use. And then I think there's some significant relationships within the community that we're able to build on. Which can only help Council in the long run because we tend to be the first person to have the rock thrown at us.
John Milham (Host) · 33:18
It's an Australian tradition, like, let's throw a rock at the mayor.
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 33:23
Yeah, well, thank you. I appreciate you not throwing one today. Well, at least not yet.
John Milham (Host) · 33:28
Just like, you know, you're a river man and there you go, it's beautiful down there on the banks, you know, as the river flows through Redmup. Did you ever have a moment where the flood, where you physically, you know, checked in the flood? You know, what was the flood like as you watched it?
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 33:51
Again, there's several parts to that. Um, listening to locals and seeing what they post on Facebook and speaking to them, there were people angry, really, really angry that they couldn't take their little dinghy out in the river because someone had deemed it was unsafe to to take a dinghy out in the river. Then sadly, a fella from Loxton passed away because he fell from his dinghy. But ingrained in so many locals was, that's my river, I've fished there for the last 50 years, my dad fished there for 50 years, you're not going to stop me going on the river. So some of that was really difficult to work through, if you like, because of those long-held beliefs and the rest of it. And how you get that message across, and I suppose there's a point at which all of us are responsible for ourselves. Is all you can do is put out there what you can about the dangers. But the intensity of that anger, if you like, about us daring to have a part in that, and it wasn't our decision, but you know, we had to say, surprised me a bit. But I suppose if I reflect now and start to appreciate how important the river is to people, then that's where they're coming from. But look, if you picture that again, as I mentioned earlier, the flow for Adelaide going past Renmark every single day is just massive. And the force of it was incredible, just, just incredible. Um, thank goodness it didn't knock anything significant over, but it certainly did further damage, uh, down, down, downriver. And I think our saving was not only that the work that those contractors did, but their ability to have that crew 24 hours a day able to go and drop those rocks and stop that erosion, something that people in '56 didn't have, uh, in the same way.
John Milham (Host) · 35:31
So, so there was the human side of the damage, of course. And then there was infrastructure damage and, you know, roads and bridges and things. Oh, um, how— it's been 2 years now, just, just, uh, just over 2 years. How are you recovering?
John Milham (Host) · 39:03
Yeah, that's fascinating. What about technology? Is there things— do you think we can develop things that will assist, you know, major infrastructure, um, you know, preparation for disasters and so on.
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 39:17
The, the use of technology, as I mentioned earlier, was a magnificent help to us. So our little trolley went out every, every day and measured the heights of them, what changed, and look for issues. So technology as it exists now is just fantastic compared to what has existed in the past. So I, I guess develop— continued development of that type of infrastructure would be great. Two is around the communications and being able to get hold of people quickly. So I'm not sure how you do that, but maybe there's some opportunities with ICT through phone messaging that councils might be able to link into because we tend to be in little silos. So police might've led it all, SES had this bit, DEW had this bit, SA Water had this bit, the electrical group we'll talk about later or not. Had another bit of things. So I think there's more work about that coordination and linking, even though the Zone Emergency Committee had a lot of things set up and went really, really well. I think technology rolling into how we can link and communicate better prior, during, and post would be really, really important.
John Milham (Host) · 40:22
Well, you know, you mentioned the, you know, number of bodies and organizations that needed to coordinate. In some ways, RedMark would really, you know, put firm boundaries down about what you were doing and how that would be coordinated, right? So, what do you see as best practice?
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 40:49
Well, the organization as it currently exists is great. All right. But within that, we can improve. SES did a great job. But they rely on volunteers. So if you're looking at a Queensland situation where you are dealing with intense issues for 2 weeks, that's very different to if you're dealing with intense issues for 3 and 4 months. People can take a week off of work or 2 weeks off of work and act as a volunteer. So ours was quite different in that sense. The other bit was that there were some gatekeepers, and I think there's some conversations that need to happen about look, this council has taken the lead and thank goodness they have. How can we help them? As opposed to, no, no, no, no, no, you need to come back to us because we're in charge of this. So when we had our town meeting, for example, we had people come down and speak to us from a sheet. You know, sadly, there's even a guy that came down and read from his sheet. He had no idea. He couldn't have told us the main street name, let alone the impact or who would be most at risk if X happened or Y happened or whatever it be. So we've got to localize these things. The impact in Renmark was very, very different to Murray Bridge. It's no good having a plan across the board. So when we get to the next issue, we've got to work out how we can have a particular region with these issues and also them at the other end. How can we coordinate and link those? How can we share information across them? How can we put our resources in the right places? And the Local Government Association, for example, enabled us to get other councils to send pumps and people to help. That was such a great asset. And just as our workers went across to Kangaroo Island and all the rest of it, but that needs to be linked into this bigger picture as well. And I don't have a great answer in terms of how that can be coordinated, but I think some more work's got to be done on that communication and links between keeping individual towns and regions. But by the same token, we can learn from each other, we can share with each other, we can do that broader picture as well. I think we can do it. And we can show what happened this time around, but I think there's some technology and there's some learnings and there's some communication we can do better.
John Milham (Host) · 42:55
It's a great, a great image you build. In my talking to people from the region, there are stories of people who have lost, who lost everything and they, they're incredibly resilient. They have, um, you know, they're quite chirpy considering the circumstances they find themselves in, but sometimes they feel like, uh, you know, they're in certain places they were forgotten or not given support or whatever. Um, how, as someone who, you know, has, you know, the buck stops for you in your region. How do you recognize and change that for future?
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 43:46
That's an extremely difficult one. You just don't know the reality. So I can be talking to someone who's playing chirpy, using your terms, but not understanding the reality for them on the ground. And some people, and farmers are classics, particularly males, in terms of not wanting to share how bad things really are. That's a really difficult one to get into. So I think it's about listening and trying to understand what they're actually saying as opposed to the words that might come out of their mouths. Sometimes that involves a visit. Sometimes that's a cross-reference with their neighbor. It's difficult because you can't do that times 10,000 people or 30,000. So I think it's about knowing on the ground the best you can. And if you know their neighbor's going through X, Y, and Z, then perhaps relate that and try and get from them. But bottom line, if people don't want the help or they think you're interfering, then you've just got to give them a bit of space. But by the same token, if there's services you can offer or try and help them with, you try really, really hard to do that as best you can. But people need to take responsibility for themselves. And I'm not saying that's why they got in the circumstances. There's, there's other things too. I'm sure there's other councils who would have loved to have some of the contractors that we were able to access. But, you know, it hit us first and we acted decisively. But it's really hard. You meet mates down the pub or around the street or over a meal or whatever, and sometimes you wonder what they're saying is, is that really where they are? And that's that whole mental health and blue painted trees and all those things that are just so hard for us as a community.
John Milham (Host) · 48:47
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And beautifully put. I suppose to lift it up a little bit, you know, so many, um, examples of people pulling together and doing amazing things during the period. It's so, so challenging having, you know, months of this kind of disruption and so on. And then of course, you know, restricted livelihoods as well as restricted personal lives and so on. Um, what impressed you about your your place?
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 49:26
About the place itself? About the people?
John Milham (Host) · 49:28
About Renmark and the, the town and the region and the people.
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 49:35
I, I think that, that sense of community and coming together. And we had so many offers of people that want to go out and get their shovel and their old tractor and, and do what happened in '56. And, and we just had to say, look, you can't have a 75, 80, 90-year-old out there with his shovel. You just can't do that in today's work health and safety and the rest of So that really strong desire to be able to help in whatever way they can was tricky to manage because you don't want to turn them away because you value how they want to help. But by the same token, to get them to understand about, yeah, we've moved a little bit, you know, and you're actually getting in the way of that B triple tipping soil on that mound. So there was lots of people wanted to help in some way or another. Some of the companies came on board. I think Costa, one of the big groups out here, they sent us a group of Pacific Islanders, and it was a real joy to see them out there filling up those sandbags and their metal frame sandbags. Like, if you saw any of them, but they're singing their hearts out and they're shoveling stuff in and stomping them down, and you can hear them, I don't know, half a kilometer away. It was their joy in doing the job to help us. And that was really nice to see, and the locals going past with a smile on their face was beaut to see as well. And I guess post-flood, the reflections from people about how pleased they are about how this all panned out and the work that Council did is really, you know, really good to hear, and that's a sense of each other as well as Council that The early fears, and you can understand them, um, weren't realized, thank goodness. And, uh, that we'll be far better prepared next time around. You know, the learnings from this one, written down or not, uh, will, will be there for years to come.
John Milham (Host) · 54:13
Well, I do, um, You know, I do think, uh, Remark has got a nice vibe and, uh, I look forward to getting down there again. And in particular, I appreciate the, you know, the can-do attitude that I, you know, like so many people, um, I've met who, you know, just got on with things, right? And really got things done, but, uh, recognizing that, uh, You know, both, uh, you know, there's suffering and there's triumph in all of these things, right? So for sure.
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 54:50
And, and there's learnings too, and still some work to be done. Uh, for example, the, the levees, uh, um, that we erected are on over 300 pieces of private land. So who owns them? Who maintains them? Who takes care of them for the next flood? The, and No one's really resolved that yet. What happens next time around when we've got a high river, the township is actually below that, the water held back, is held back by the levees, and then we get 100mm of rain. How do we get that water out next time? And we were lucky this time, we had some incredibly sized pumps and the rest of it. But so there's some things we need to still work. I mean, at $25, $30 million we've spent so far. We could probably spend another $20 million making sure that we are ready for the next flood totally. Now that's not going to happen, but what can we do with the resources we've got to be as in the best position possible? And so you just need to work at things as grants come up or opportunities come up to see how we can do it and not just leave it because thinking with that thinking that I think I started with. When there's a problem, we'll support you. Well, spit like, guys.
John Milham (Host) · 56:02
Uh, yeah, no, a brilliant, um, brilliant idea. What do we need to do and how do we do it? So basically, we're going to ask everyone to go visiting upriver and, you know, have, have a, you know, a holiday up at, up in Renmark and on the river.
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 56:18
Is that absolutely— I'd love to see you on a houseboat and show you some of the backwaters and creeks, or walking or boating or For so many people have never been through a lock, they've never been under a bridge, they've never actually pulled up on a bank and had a little campfire and just, you know, have to sing songs. But I'm not sure if you're a singer or not, but, uh, uh, well, you know, depends who you ask.
John Milham (Host) · 56:38
If you ask me, yes. If you ask the people listening, maybe not, you know. But, uh, so around the fire everyone sounds good.
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 56:47
Yeah, I think you're right. So depending what you're drinking The, um, the natural beauty Australia has to offer is something that we don't take advantage of enough. And so much of our country is locked into major urban environments. And, but the opportunity for us to go out and view our beautiful country, uh, I just encourage people to do that. And, and the best opportunity, of course, is the river, upriver of Renmark.
John Milham (Host) · 57:14
Beautiful. And on that plug, thank you so much. It's been absolutely fascinating to talk to you and to hear your stories, sharing your stories of challenge and triumph. Great job. Congratulations on a rapid introduction to natural disaster management. All the best with steering your town into the, you know, to be ready for all that's coming your way, including lots of tourism. So well done. Thank you, Peter.
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 57:52
And thank you for the opportunity too, because we do as a nation need to be ready for the next issue, the next disaster. And any way we can highlight that, then I'm keen to do it. And I thank you for the opportunity.
John Milham (Host) · 58:05
So much wisdom, mate. Congratulations and I look forward to seeing you in person sometime on the river.
Peter Hunter (Guest) · 58:12
On, in the houseboat, upriver from Randmark. I'll light the fire for you, I'll bring you chairs, and we can sit around and have a good chat about the world.
John Milham (Host) · 58:21
Too good not to do. Cheers, mate. Thank you for listening to this episode of Riverland Recovery Stories. If anything in this conversation has had a triggering effect, please seek support and reach out out to someone who can help keep you safe. If you found this conversation interesting or helpful, please share it with your friends, family, and colleagues so we can help more people with their recovery from natural disasters. To find out more about Kintsugi Heroes and our other projects, head to kintsugiheroes.com.au. Thank you to our production team, Kintsugi Heroes volunteers, and most importantly, the Riverland community for sharing their lived experience.
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