Michael Stewart · 61 min
A veteran who survived war, multiple near-fatal accidents, PTSD, and addiction reveals how action, adventure, and returning to face the past became the unlikely medicine that saved his life.
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Michael Stewart has lived a life defined by extremes. A veteran who served in war, he survived a microlight crash into forest canopy north of Durban, a waterfall accident that trapped him overnight in his kayak below Victoria Falls, an ultra-distance race through Madagascar that cost him his toenails, a head-on collision that killed his date's dog, and a cyclone rescue that severed tendons in his hand. He's also survived the quieter, slower kind of breaking: a hit-and-run motorcycle accident in 2009 that triggered PTSD and depression so severe his body shut down. For years, he chased adrenaline through extreme sports, kayaking, skydiving, paragliding, microlighting, convinced this was how he managed the war that never left him. When the motorcycle hit him, that strategy collapsed.
What saved him was motion of a different kind. Michael got clean from methadone, bought a motorbike, and rode across Africa for six months. During that ride, he returned to his boarding school, the place that haunted his nightmares, and met with the headmaster and housemaster he hadn't seen in decades. That single act ended the recurring dreams. He came home changed. When he met Meryl, he gave up the bike without hesitation. Now, living quietly in Mission Beach with his partner, Michael spends his days paddling the Tully River, fishing on the reef, and rebuilding a house that's survived two once-in-a-hundred-year floods. He plans to bring struggling veterans north for quiet adventure, to show them what he learned: that hope is not passive, that action shifts everything, and that integrity, keeping your word, treating people as you want to be treated, is the only foundation that holds.
“the war never really ended for me. And so once you've experienced that adrenaline rush, some guys after the war finishes, they end up going to drugs or alcohol or some other addiction. Mine was extreme sport.”
“having action brings hope. So even if it's just going for a walk or just changing your circumstances, your environment, you know, that normally it's a catalyst to make things better.”
“when you're in a situation, you have two choices. You can either lay down and give up or you can fight it with every breath and every ounce of strength you have. And always there is the next day is going to be better.”
The hero, today
Michael has lived with PTSD most of his life, from childhood trauma and from war, and only later understood that extreme sports were his way of managing it by staying in the present moment where drowning or dying was possible. After the hit-and-run motorcycle accident in 2009, Michael's body and mind collapsed; it wasn't until he got clean from methadone and spent six months riding a motorbike across Africa that he began to recover from the depression and PTSD. Michael returned to his old boarding school during that African motorcycle trip and met with the headmaster and housemaster, and that single act of confronting the place that haunted his nightmares made those recurring dreams stop forever. Michael has adjusted his behavior after meeting Meryl, who was adamant about no more motorcycle riding; he gave it up without missing it, understanding that the bike had been a form of escape rather than a genuine need. When facing depression and PTSD, Michael believes you cannot lose sight of hope, and that taking action, even small action like going for a walk or changing your environment, brings hope and is a catalyst to make things better. Michael's core message to his sons and future generations is that decisions must be based on integrity and truth; if you say you will do something, you do it to the best of your ability, and you treat people the way you want to be treated.
Yes. Michael Stewart is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Michael has lived with PTSD most of his life, from childhood trauma and from war, and only later understood that extreme sports were his way of managing it by staying in the present moment where drowning or dying was possible.
After the hit-and-run motorcycle accident in 2009, Michael's body and mind collapsed; it wasn't until he got clean from methadone and spent six months riding a motorbike across Africa that he began to recover from the depression and PTSD.
Michael returned to his old boarding school during that African motorcycle trip and met with the headmaster and housemaster, and that single act of confronting the place that haunted his nightmares made those recurring dreams stop forever.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 00:06
Welcome back to Kintsugi Heroes, helping people tell the stories they need to share so you can find the stories that you need to hear.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 00:19
Welcome to this episode of Kintsugi Heroes, where Natalie Stockdale has her second conversation with Michael Stewart. After leaving Africa behind and adapting to a new life in Australia, Michael navigates a series of close calls with death. His story is one of resilience, adventure, and constant reinvention. He shares candid insights on risk-taking, recovering from trauma, and the importance of family, integrity, and hope. His journey offers thoughtful lessons in coping with adversity and finding meaning through action, reminding us that life outside our comfort zone can be both challenging and profoundly rewarding. Listen now to Michael's story. Hello, Mike, and welcome back to another episode of Kintsugi Heroes.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 01:11
Hi, Natalie, how are you?
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 01:13
Good, thanks, very good. So in the last episode, we talked largely about your life in Africa, and today we'll be mainly focusing on your life since moving to Australia, although parts of it will be going tied back to to Africa. Let's start with the year 2000. You left South Africa and moved to Australia with your wife and 3 sons. What was that like initially after leaving Africa? Did you feel an emptiness or a relief or perhaps both?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 01:51
I would say there was a, on my part, a big emptiness because I firstly, I felt that I let down, you know, all my staff in the factory because they were like family. But I had to look after my family, my 3 boys, and I could see the trauma that they were experiencing it, although they didn't directly say it. But like when we got to Australia, that, you know, they wouldn't sleep with a window open. Windows had to be closed because they were afraid of, you know, housebreakings and so on. It was like moving to the moon, actually, because although a lot of things are similar, you lose your entire network of friends, You know, you've got 3 kids that you've got to get into school, you've got a job that you've started, and you don't know anybody. And, um, and so it was tough, but, um, at least it was, um, safe. Um, yes, you know, I came, you know, that's what was really great because, you know, there was law and order and you didn't you didn't have to be looking over your shoulder the whole time, you know.
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Michael has adjusted his behavior after meeting Meryl, who was adamant about no more motorcycle riding; he gave it up without missing it, understanding that the bike had been a form of escape rather than a genuine need.
This conversation includes leaving africa, finding safety, the dancing in the streets, the war never really ended, the microlight crashes into trees, the river that nearly killed him and running 270 kilometers with no toenails.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 03:20
Yes.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 03:21
Yeah, so, and the kids—
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 03:23
a relief, a relief as well, as well as an emptiness. Yeah, yeah.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 03:28
And the kids soon became Australians, you know.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 03:32
Yes. Yeah. How old were your boys when you moved to Australia?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 03:36
Oh, Dan was— the baby was about 6 or 7. And then the others were 14, 15, or something like that.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 03:49
Yep, teenagers.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 03:50
Yeah, they went to senior school and Dan was at junior school.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 03:54
You moved to Queensland and after a corporate takeover of a company that you consulted for, you moved temporarily to Malaysia. What did you see in Malaysia that made you pack your bags and promptly return to Australia?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 04:11
Well, I was doing a consulting job over there, but it was during the lead-up to 9/11, and I was just mortified at people dancing in the street. When the Twin Towers came down, and I just thought, you know, you don't do that. And so I just figured, nah, and I packed up and came back to Australia. And then, yeah, I just carried on working over here.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 04:53
As a consultant for boat companies, boat building companies.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 04:58
It was— I've consulted to boat manufacturing companies, train, buses, caravans, the military, all sorts, anything in composites. Yeah, so that's what I did my master's on, my MBA was on a specific way of molding which reduced your total cost component by over half. So it was really needed, right?
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 05:38
Okay, um, Mike, let's now talk about some of your close encounters with death, your near-death experiences. So some of these memories will take us back to Africa, but also you have similar experiences in Australia. Firstly, what do you think drove you to high-risk activities?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 06:02
That's an interesting question. I think that the war never really ended for me. And so once you've experienced that adrenaline rush if you want to call it. Some guys after the war finishes, they end up going to drugs or alcohol or some other addiction. Mine was extreme sport, and I just loved the thrill of kayaking because one, it was an adventure. You saw places people have never been to. And two, it actually kept you in the present moment because you were now, you know, you had to be in the moment because you could quite easily drown. And the kayaking was my main focus while I was still in Zim up until '88. And then when I moved south to South Africa, I was skydiving as well. And then I ended up microlighting, which was an extremely fantastic way of de-stressing. Yeah, like, I can't describe the sense of freedom you have. You know, you're up in the air on your own. Yeah, and you just—
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 07:34
You mentioned to me once about gliding with vultures. That sounds Yeah, incredible.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 07:40
Yeah, I was actually paragliding and I was sitting in a thermal just going up and down this cliff and these vultures took off and they were flying with me just up and down. Amazing. And about 15-20 minutes I did that. It was quite incredible.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 08:03
Yes, it would have been. Shall we start with your— the micro— think in terms of near-death experiences. Shall we start with your, the microlight crash?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 08:14
Oh yeah, well, that happened in 1998, um, and what had actually happened, I had, I had a, a friend who, um, worked for a composites company and he was down, he was a material supplier and He was down at my factory and that whole week he was there, he wanted to go for a flight, he wanted to have a flight. And the weather was pretty nasty, but we did get a break on, I think it was a Thursday or Friday. And so afternoon I took him up and it was blowing what they call a berg wind in South Africa. So that's a warm wind that comes from the land out to sea, and that was the higher wind. And then we had an easterly onshore wind, which was the lower wind, and that was cold. So we were flying in shorts, so we stayed up in the high winds. So we were at about, at about 1,500 to 2,000 feet and going up the coast north of Durban at a place called Blythedale Beach, and he had spotted, I think it was a whale or something, and so we turned to go back and I got caught in this wind shear where the two winds, and we dropped from 1,500 down to about 200 or 300 feet, but by the time I corrected the plane, we were flying inland and the land was going up and it was a huge forested area. So we just ran out of altitude and because of the weight of two of us on the plane, I ended up turning the ignition off and told them to brace and I just flared the wing as we hit the tops of the trees and I don't remember anything else. But waking up on the ground quite badly injured. And we just happened to have— there was a Boy Scouts camp about a km away, and they were packing up to go home, and they saw it, and they came to our rescue. And they were quite incredible because the guy, his name was Inspector Brown, I think it was. He was a policeman but doing Boy Scouts, and they SOS'd a passing helicopter using a mirror because there was no phone signal there. And that helicopter landed, had a look, and then he radioed to ahead and the air rescue came out and so I was uplifted because I had the most traumatic injuries. Brian wasn't so bad, although he had broken his back, but I had internal bleeding, lacerated liver, punctured lungs, bad injuries to the stomach. And so I ended up in emergency. I was just very fortunate where I ended up. There was a friend of mine who'd been, he was an emergency doctor and he'd been on duty and his shift had ended half an hour before. But the guy that was going to take over from him was late. So he was actually on shift when I came in. And he took one look at me and he went, he went the colour of a sheet, so I knew I was in trouble because I looked at him. And anyway, he organised everything and I went in for surgery and then I was put into an induced coma for a couple of days and, yeah, made a full recovery and Very lucky.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 12:36
So saved by the Boy Scouts.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 12:39
Yeah, and they actually got an award from Nelson Mandela. Yeah, it was quite good. Oh wow. Yeah, I've got a picture of them somewhere, a newspaper clipping somewhere of it. It was a very quick accident and, you know, and it happened like in the flash of an eye. And, you know, like I had an almost fatal head-on crash in 2014 and that was like slow motion watching that car hit us head-on, but it was equally as quick, you know. But the plane one, I must have been knocked unconscious by the impact because I only woke up on the ground and I was out of the plane.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 13:42
Did you go up in that type of plane again, a microlight again?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 13:47
Yeah, I actually went—
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 13:48
Didn't deter you?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 13:50
Yeah, I went flying again. In fact, my friend who is unfortunately dead now. He used to build it, and I taught Aidan to kayak and he taught me to fly. So we sort of— he rebuilt that plane for me, and then I sold it, but we went flying, and it was like, you know, when you fall off a horse, you just get back on. And I was fine. I mean, I'd love to fly again here in Australia, but I think the rules and regulations are a bit more stricter than they are. Tighter?
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 14:31
Yeah. Yes. You've had a very serious waterfall accident too. Was that in Victoria Falls?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 14:40
Oh yeah, I was one of the first to paddle below Vic Falls, but I didn't have an accident there. I've had a number of, well, in 50 years of paddling, you know, you are going to have some misadventures. Yes. One memorable misadventure involved the then Minister of Finance, Bernard Chazira. It involved his son, David. And I, we were the first to paddle down this river called the Pungwe from the falls down, and our entry into the river was a little bit delayed, so we only got onto the water about midday and we were due to get off by 4 o'clock in the afternoon.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 15:33
Sorry, Mike, were you— sorry to interrupt— were you on top of the falls to go and planning to go over the falls? No, no, we walked down.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 15:43
The bottom. Yeah, the day before we tried to abseil down, but we ended up running out of rope, so we had to climb back up again. So we decided to walk down, but that took— because it had never been done before, we had to bash this path down. And by the time we got down to the river, we were cut to pieces, absolutely, you know. You know, thorn bushes. And when we got onto the river, David, by the time he got down to— there's a confluence with the Garasi— his boat was absolutely finished. So I took him up to the plateau and showed him where to walk down, and I went back to the river to go and paddle down so I could get the vehicles. But While I was doing that, it was starting to get dark and late, and I went over one, one quite a big drop, and I smacked my face and I broke, fractured this bone here and nearly drowned. I was caught, and I was on my own, so I was caught in this in this holding hole, and eventually I managed to get out and the boat got washed out. And by the time I grabbed the boat and my paddle, it was, it was too dark to carry on paddling, and there was still a lot of whitewater to do. So I just decided the best thing to do is to just call it a day. But I hadn't been prepared for an overnight paddle because I was just in a t-shirt and shorts and life jacket, and the temperature there can drop down to about 5-6 degrees. So I didn't have matches, I couldn't make a fire.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 17:47
Yeah, didn't have a human body to cuddle up to.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 17:51
So what I did was I actually took the stringers out of my kayak and I climbed into the kayak and used it as a sleeping bag. And that's what kept me alive that night. And then early the next morning, I put everything back together and I paddled down to the takeout. But by this stage, we had the military out looking for us and the police A sub-aqua team were up looking for our bodies, and because we hadn't pitched up, our seconds had gone and reported us as missing. But because of the person I was paddling with was the Minister of Finance's son, there was this whole red alert went out and became a high priority. Yeah, and I ended up— I paddled down to the store that I normally used to go to and The old mama there, she's an African lady that I've known, and she just made me tea and a nice big thick sandwich. And I'm sitting there and this army patrol comes past, and they were the 5th Brigade who had done that terrible atrocity in Matabeleland in '83. And we then went and found David because I said to him, go to the school, and he spent the night at the school and ended up going back to town and had the— I wouldn't know if you call it pleasure or displeasure— of meeting Rex Nongol, who was the head of the Zimbabwean Army, and I'll never forget what he said. He said, ah, it's so good to have adventurous young men in this country still, you know. So we didn't get into trouble. We were, we were— but yeah, I had a throbbing face and a very worried wife. But that was just one of many, yes, kaiaki It's a dangerous sport, you know, and it can go wrong very quickly. I've had a number of trips on rivers which— where people have drowned, and, um, I know, yeah, it can be tragic. But yes, as long as you know your limitations. Yeah.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 20:25
And Mike, can we now go to your experience in 1993 when you were on that race called— known as The Raid, where you injured yourself?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 20:38
Yeah, that was, uh, one of these ultra, ultra, ultra distance races. I don't know, it was a long way, and it was— we ran from Antananarivo, which is the capital of Madagascar, along the highlands all the way down to Tamatave, which is at the coast. And it was a combination of hundreds, hundreds of kilometers, hundreds. And it was paddling, running, cycling, paddling, and running. And right at the end, we had a little ritual race in Tamatave. But we'd done, we'd done runs, paddled runs, and then we'd We did a 68K run and then we had a 270K run through the rainforest down and you had to finish as a team of 4. And I unfortunately had a pair of Hitec boots that were— that took all my toenails off. And so about 40 km into that 200-odd km race, I had absolutely no toenails left and I could hardly walk. So I actually took the boots off, and there was an African coming the other way who had a pair of these clear plastic Chinese sandals. So I swapped him the boots for the sandals. And I mean, he suddenly had a pair of boots that were twice, twice his size. But, you know, it was— he was a definite winner. And then I just taped the feet up, and fortunately my other 3 teammates were all doctors. So 2 of them were still are, very good eye specialists, and the other guy was an anaesthetist. So, but I couldn't stop because if I stopped it meant that they would fail and they would be out the race. So I just kept going and I was pretty knackered by the time we got to the finish and It was a great adventure though. Beautiful country.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 23:11
And you injured your back in that race too, didn't you?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 23:14
Yeah, I wore it out. So I had a previous operation in '79 when I'd broken my back parachuting. And so what I'd done is one of the rods had been um, it had broken. So I would sit down at work and have absolutely no feeling in my legs, and within minutes. So I went to my doctor, they did an MRI, and I was rushed into hospital, and they took those things out and then fused my back. And that was in '94, yeah. And I recovered from that by going and paddling the Zambezi, a long paddle down through Mozambique. It was actually a National Geographic documentary called Explorer's Journal or something. And I think there was 5 of us and we paddled all the way down to a place called Chinde, which is on the mouth of the Zambezi. And then, because we couldn't get the vehicle there, we paddled about 140 km up the coast to another town. That was interesting. But that sorted my back out. Yeah, it was strong after that. Yeah. And that was 2005. Yeah.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 24:48
Can we come back to Australia? And even in Australia, you had some very close, close encounters with death. You can tell us about the time you were taking someone out on a date and it didn't end very well due to a head-on collision.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 25:07
Yeah, that was actually after my motorbike prang in '09. So it was after I recovered from that. It was 2014.— and we'd gone to the movies and it was actually December 6th, 2014. We'd gone to Tracey's house to pick up her dog and she wanted to stop to get some wine and then she was going to drop me off and this guy came from the other direction. It was on a, you know, on a two-lane road on Redland Bay Road, Redland Bay Cleveland Road, that one. And he was drunk and he sideswiped the vehicle in front of us and hit us on Tracy's side and spun us around and flipped us three times and landed up on the roof. And there was smoke everywhere, and I thought, "Yep, this car is going to burst into flames." So I unbuckled, went around, and had to crawl up underneath her to release her. But, you know, I knew she'd had a back or pelvis broken just by the pain that she was in. And got her out, and then the ambulance arrived and took over. And unfortunately, the dog didn't die there but died the next day. And the guy that actually hit us, he jumped out the car, his car. It was in the middle of the road, and his passenger was still in the passenger seat bawling his eyes out, and he did a runner down the road. Because he was over the limit, and they brought in the dog squad and they caught him. But unfortunately, you know, Tracy had quite severe injuries. Her back and pelvis were broken, but she'd made a recovery. Yeah, and I, I had a few scratches on me, but I was fine.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 27:32
Yeah, amazing. So you've had— you've mentioned this before too— a parachute accident. You had inches from a landmine that you talked about in the previous episode. Many people tried to kill you in South Africa, and of course during the wars. You survived all this and the microlight crash, all your kayaking waterfall incidents, and And then this car crash. There was another in 2023. You had, by this stage, you'd moved to North Queensland and you had had a bad experience during Cyclone Jasper. Can you tell us about that?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 28:17
So I had my sailboat up at Clump Point and in the 11th hour they told us you've got to move. So I took the sailboat down behind Hinchbrook into the mangroves there, and there was a lone American sailor that came in behind me, and I was with two other guys, and he was unsure how to get in, into the river. So he asked us over the radio if I could show him. So I got in my small boat, which we were going to go back to Cardwell in, and unfortunately I'd just had a shoulder replacement, reverse shoulder replacement, about 6 weeks before. So my right arm was a little bit not working. So I was holding the motor control, the tiller steer, with my left hand Standing up, not wearing a life jacket, didn't have the safety cord on because, you know, this was in a rush to go and help this guy. And I'm watching where crocodiles have slid into the river and I'm thinking, don't fall out here. And about 2 seconds, I hit something, the boat accelerated, I got thrown off balance. I severed the tendons in my left hand. It just wrecked the left hand and I got flung in the water. So I'm now in the water, no arms to swim with, and thinking, man, if a croc doesn't get me, a shark will. And I was in the water about 6 or 7 minutes before my friends turned around and managed to come and pluck me out the water. And then we still had to park the boat, throw the anchor down, and then I had to get to hospital. And so that incident happened at about midday, 12 o'clock, and I think by the time I got to hospital it was about 5 o'clock, but I'd lost a lot of blood. Anyway, I went through to Cairns the next day and had an operation and Yeah, they did a good job.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 30:43
Good. Mike, did you ever feel after all these experiences, accidents, misadventures as you call them, did it ever, did you ever adjust your behaviour? Did you ever like tone down the risks that you took?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 31:00
Meryl asks me that every day. I've always only known one way, you just go and do it. You know, I've just, I've never been one to, you know, okay, yes, I do look at the risks. I still kayak alone. I go up to the Tully and I just, I like that solitude, but I'm very mindful there, you know, there's crocs about and, you know, you could bang your head on a rock or whatever, but that's life. You know, you— I'd rather, if I was to die, I'd rather die doing that than be in an old age home, you know. But you can't change how you are. I mean, that last accident I described was going to help someone. And, you know, if you just decide, "No regrets." Yeah, I'm not going to help anybody anymore. I'm not going to do anything. Well, yes, pretty boring life. Yes.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 32:14
Yeah. Mike, can we talk about one more incident? Because I know it was a major one. So we're in Australia. Probably the most significant accidental mishap of yours in, in your life, I, I think, from my understanding, is the, the motorcycle hit and run. Can you tell us about that and that the effect that that has had on you?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 32:39
Yeah, that was, uh, that was, that was in 2009. I was riding home in 5 o'clock traffic, and I lived up on the Sunshine Coast, and was on the, on the Gympie Highway, so going out of Brisbane, and it was at the traffic lights at Beams Road, so Beams and Gympie, and the lady in front of me stopped suddenly and I went to stop and then I got hit from behind. But whoever hit me from behind didn't stop, they just took off, and yeah, that sent me flying.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 33:18
Was that perpetrator ever caught?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 33:20
No.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 33:21
The person who hit you?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 33:22
No. Unfortunately, I mean, by the time I eventually went down and saw the cops after I'd been out of hospital and all of that, they said that there was no, um, CCTV camera of that thing. They, they had— they could see the camera going this way and that way, but that was the blind spot. And, you know, people you know, they're in a rush to get home, they just go around you. You know, it's happened, just go around, you know. Now I don't remember a lot from it, but I do remember the after-effects because I was— now that's when the PTSD and the chronic depression set in. Because I was literally at— my body had just packed up. And the mental side, I didn't know I had PTSD, but I was seeing a psychiatrist at the time, so she was treating me for major depression. And I had this sort of like mental breakdown, you know, that the weirdest thing out because you, you like, it's almost like you can hysterically laugh but you're hysterically crying at the same time. And it was an emotional breakdown and for genuine reasons. I mean, I had my marriage, my partner was not interested in looking after me at all, so I had all of that to deal with, plus, you know, they had me on some horrific drugs, and then they— I ended up having ECT and then the magnets and all sorts of treatments, and it was only when I discovered that I was getting separated in 2012 that I decided to take action myself, and I took myself to— by this stage I had two spinal cord stimulators in me, and they had me on a heavy dose of methadone, which— and the reason they put me on methadone was because I was on fluvoxamine, which was an antidepressant, and you couldn't take Fluvoxamine with Tramadol, which is what I'd been on and what I'm on now. So, and methadone is a nasty drug to come off, really tough. So I took myself to a rehab, got off it, and then got on the plane and went, went back to Africa. I actually went back Christmas 2012, and then in '13 I decided, well, I'm going to go and buy a motorbike and I'm going to ride in Africa and see if I can get myself better that way. And I did. I rode for 6 months. Yeah.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 36:40
And that's fantastic that it helped you to recover from your PTSD and depression. Why do you— how do you think it did help you?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 36:50
Well, with PTSD, you have a lot of flashbacks, you're always in hypervigilant mode, noises are bad, you've got a trigger hair anger, you just go off at the slightest thing. I had PTSD most of my life, and I, you know, from the way my psychiatrist said, she said you had complex PTSD from your childhood, and then you had the chronic one from the war, but you'd never dealt with it. And so my coping strategy was to just keep the buzz going, you know, have this keep having it. Yeah, almost. She said to me, she said, oh, you've just had a death wish your whole life. And, you know, I thought, nah, that's not true. But when I reflect, most probably. Um, so going back, it was quite interesting because I actually went back and visited my past. Um, I'll give you an example, is that You know, we spoke earlier about boarding school. Now, I hated school because there was a tremendous amount of unfairness, you know, injustice, all of that. And I couldn't wait to get out of there. When I left there, I never went back. But I used to get these recurring nightmares in my 30s and my 40s that I was back at boarding school finishing my A-levels as a 40-year-old. And I mean, it was shocking. So I rode past the entrance to that school, and the school's in the middle of nowhere. I decided, you know what, I'm never going, I'm never going to be back here again. I'm going back there. And I did. I rode back and I went and I met the headmaster, and I actually met my old housemaster who's retired there, and we had a good chat about the past and everything. And I've never had one more nightmare about that ever.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 39:26
Yeah, I'm curious, Mike, was the old headmaster who you caught up with during that motorbike trip, how did he feel about the injustice that was carried out at the time?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 39:39
At school? Ah, you know, it was so long ago that, you know, there's nothing you can do about it and you know, the people that did that are all dead now anyway. So, you know, they—
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 39:55
he wasn't one of the perpetrators?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 39:58
No, not the housemaster. The other one was, but he was okay. He was just very disappointed that I left school without staying for my final year because he said like, It's like you've got the cake and the cream on the cake, and you, you know, you're going to miss out on eating the cream of the cake because you've now reached the pinnacle of your school career. But I didn't want anything to do with that place, and, you know, I just wanted to be away. And my father was very, very angry with me, and, um, but unfortunately I went to— they put me in for A-levels at Churchill, which is a school I would have gone to if I'd stayed in Salisbury. But by that stage, rebellion had set in, and I was not staying at school. And after a term, I managed to get out of there and went to war. So, you know, you can look back and say, oh, if I'd stayed and done this, I could have done that. But Nah.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 41:12
And then soon became an officer in your own unit at the age of 18, which we discussed in the last episode. Amazing, amazing responsibility for such a young age. So on your motorbike, you rode around Africa and Australia and also parts of Asia. So how did you— did you achieve the desired result?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 41:34
I would have still been riding, but it's as hot as hell up here in North Queensland. And if you ride without a jacket and you fall off, that's the most painful. When they're brushing that tar out of your skin, that's painful. So, and I—
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 41:54
You know that from experience, do you? You've experienced that? Of course you have.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 42:01
And when I met Meryl, she was adamant that no riding bikes. So I thought, yep, maybe it's time to hang that one up. So I did. And yeah, I don't miss it. I think when I had the bike before, it was a form of escape. Weird, you know, I've spoken to many other guys that have had, you know, bad PTSD, and they all say the same thing. When they're on a bike, they have a sense of freedom. When they're in a car, they feel trapped, you know, with traffic, and they can't— and that was definitely my case. When I was in a car, I would have to get from A to B as quickly as possible. And, you know, the Australian road rules aren't very generous here because you only have 12 points, and I could I burnt through those 12 points very quickly. That's why I ended up going to Asia, because I decided to, on the spur of the moment, I decided to ride around Australia because I'd come back and I thought, oh well, I'll just go for a ride. And I ended up in Darwin and no points.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 43:26
So, well, you can go fast there, can't you?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 43:29
Yeah, it was, but I was there in the wrong season. It was hot. And by the time I got to Darwin, I was like, um, you've got minus 4 points or something like that. And so the choice was, I think it was a good behavior bond, 1 point, or you lose your license for 3 months. So I figured, well, I can go and ride in Asia for 3 months and no one will know whether I've got a license or not. And so that's what I did. And then had the bike shipped back. And then I sort of settled down a little bit, you know, I went and bought a property.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 44:03
Yes, that was in 2021, you moved to far north Queensland with Meryl.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 44:09
Yes, but before that I bought a property in Boonah, and then that was 2015, and then in 2016 it got flooded with Cyclone Debbie, and then I sold it, went into another property, and in 2019 that got almost burnt out in those fires when— the day Mugabe died, actually, on September 6th.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 44:41
Yes.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 44:42
And then I opted to— when I met Meryl It was actually during COVID as well, and I just didn't, I just didn't like the way everything was going. And I thought, well, if we go and live somewhere quiet, we won't have that problem. And she took a gamble. I mean, here's this nutcase she's with, and so we came up north, and we were actually going to move to We were looking at Kuranda, but it was just too busy, and we came down the range. And I'd been to Mission Beach and nearly bought a house here years ago, and we found this place. And yeah, we've been here 4 years now. We've been through 2 floods and a cyclone. So Australia—
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 45:37
the adventures follow you.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 45:41
Well, I wish they would stop now.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 45:43
You've had enough? Enough, yes.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 45:46
Oh, absolutely.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 45:48
And what do you enjoy doing now? You're retired, so what do you enjoy doing now for your leisure?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 45:57
We've been rebuilding this house, so we've literally built it from— broke it down and put it back together again. And gone through two once-in-a-100-year floods. So we've had to each year— so we've done the same downstairs twice, three times now. But this time I've made it like a fishbowl, so if it floods or rains, it doesn't matter.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 46:27
Right, yeah. And you're still paddling and and sailing. That's how we met, through when you were sailing past here.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 46:37
Yep. Um, the boat's at Townsville at the moment, but the plan is I most probably will bring it up here next year. I'll just wait till after February. And what I was doing before the second floods, I was um, wanting to get veterans up, especially veterans that had, um, bad, bad PTSD, and, and those that had tried to commit suicide, and bring them up here to a place where it's very quiet, but they can also have an adventure and just be able to just share with them, you know, that, you know, life hasn't ended, you know. And that's been the plan, but, you know, like all plans, they get delayed because of all the nonsense that goes on, you know. But hopefully I will get back to that.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 47:44
That sounds like a wonderful project, Mike. Well, very well worthwhile. I hope you get support for that project.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 47:53
Well, yeah, I'm not very good at networking or going with my cap in hand to the government or wherever, but, you know, I'm sure it'll happen if it's meant to happen.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 48:08
Yes, yes.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 48:09
I've got good friends that want it to happen, so we'll see.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 48:15
Good. And I understand even while we're talking here that you're in you're in pain, physical pain. How, on a scale of 0 to 10, with 10 being unbearable, what level of pain are you experiencing?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 48:32
Well, my diary over that— I have a pain diary which I just, I've marked down what dosage, etc., etc., and Oh, it sits between 8 out of 10, and, you know, it's at the stage where I have to go back in and get something done to this lower back. So tomorrow I'll go for another MRI, and then hopefully, hopefully we'll be able to get surgery again towards the end of the year. But if they can't fix it, I I don't know. Yeah, I'll have to make Plan B. I don't know what that is, but it's just one of those things, you know.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 49:21
And how's your mental health currently?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 49:25
It's good because I don't— live a pretty isolated life. So we're not in the hustle and bustle of you know, like the cities. I just can't do that, you know, it's just too much going on for me. So it's a very quiet life, and Meryl likes the quiet life too. And, you know, when I'm feeling a little bit like life's a bit too much, I go for a paddle, and I go, I take the ute up to the Tully and I drop my bicycle at the bottom and I drive to Putten and I paddle down and then I jump on the bicycle and normally get harassed by a big cassowary and pick up the car and then come home. So I get a paddle and a ride and it normally sorts me out, you know. And fishing as well, we go out to the reef when we can and just sit out there and, you know, catch a few coral trout. And, you know, it's a nice day, so we try and do that at least once a week, you know. And now with the renovations coming to an end, we'll have more time for that.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 50:53
Good. Mike, when you reflect over your whole life of 60+ years, what would be the one or two hardest, hardest experiences?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 51:07
Boarding school was tough, but I think in the war, seeing women and children being killed by terrorists and feeling so powerless you know, you can't save them. And it's heartbreaking seeing little kids killed. It just— it's not an image that you ever want to see, you know. Um, I think, um, up there was, um, uh, the betrayal or the Divorce that I went through, that was, that was really tough, especially, you know, considering the circumstances. And actually coming off methadone was, that was physically very, very hard. I can understand why people fail at rehabs because it's, when your body goes into this withdrawals, it's the most Horrific feeling, but you know, it's like Winston Churchill said, when you're going through hell, you just got to keep going until you get out the other end. You—
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 52:26
oh yeah, so I was going to ask you about your resilience and your approach to overcoming those very challenging times.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 52:36
When you're in a situation, you have two choices. You can either lay down and give up, or you can fight it with every breath and every ounce of strength that you have. And always there is the next day is going to be better. It might not be the next day, but there's always a change in your circumstances, you know. So especially like if you're in the depths of depression and PTSD is really nailing you, you just can't lose sight of hope. You have to hope for something better, and having action brings hope. So even if it's just going for a walk or just changing your circumstances, your environment, You know, that normally, you know, it's a catalyst to make things better.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 53:40
Yes, they're taking action, maintaining hope and taking action.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 53:44
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 53:45
Very, very good advice. And Mike, in your ledger of cherished life memories, what would be up there amongst, among your favorite, most precious moments in life?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 54:00
Coming to know the Lord was a big one because, I mean, when I came to know God, it was at a time in my life where I wasn't needing anything at all. I was on an adventure, but it happened. And I mean, I did see the bad end of Christianity in terms of, you know, what churches can do and, you know, how they can manipulate and all of that. But that faith has always remained with me. But I think the greatest joy I've ever had is my 3 boys. They, you know, they just remarkable. Everybody says their kids are remarkable. I think you'd be a bad parent if you didn't think that of your child. But that was a highlight of my life. And the adventures that I've had have been— I've seen such wonderful places in the world that very few people will ever get to see. Exploration via river, you know, you go to places where no one's been, you know, and I think that when you lose that, you know, I think that that's very sad.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 55:42
That sense of adventure.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 55:44
Yeah, absolutely. People often used to say to me, "Oh, you were born like that." Most probably, but I do believe people, you know, they become like that because that passion is ignited within them. And then they think, "Ma, I managed to do that, and so let's try something else." And that's how self-development takes place, you know. I mean, it's— think about it, it's boring to just get up and do an 8-to-5 job till you're 65 and then retire and hope, oh great, then you get sick and you die. I mean, oh yes, life is from now.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 56:32
And what a boring life to just be stuck in your comfort zone.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 56:38
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. No, you have to get out of your comfort zone. But unfortunately, that takes risk. And some people don't like risk, you know. And then they don't want you to take the risk because it makes them feel unsafe. So you can't be governed by someone else. You've got to make your own choices in life. And you've got to live by those choices. You know?
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 57:05
Yes, yes, yes. So, Mike, you've already mentioned that you have 3 sons. They're all adult, adult men now. They, when they were younger, they, they used to say that they always felt safe with you because they had Rambo as their dad. What, what messages would you like to leave for your sons and future generations about, about life?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 57:33
Well, I've always, you know, like my eldest son's been going through a difficult time, uh, with the sale of a business and some other things. And, you know, he said to me, oh, maybe I should just roll over and, you know, not worry about it. And so I said to him, I said, that's all very well now, but in 5 years' time or in 10 years' time, you're going to have a regret about that. So whatever you do, you just make sure that you're not going to regret it later on. So when you make a decision, is it a short-term decision or is it a long-term decision? But whatever you do, It must be based on integrity and truth. And you know, you can't go— like in his case, if he genuinely did not do anything wrong, he'd just been— other companies trying to railroad him. So he stood and fought it and he's come out on top. Because he stuck to the truth. So that integrity is essential. You know, if you tell someone you're going to do something, then you do it.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 59:01
Yes, you keep your word.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 59:03
Don't make promises. Yeah, and I learned that from a very young age. My father had a lot of integrity, and my grandfather too. I can remember my Father had 200-300 staff and they all used to call him their father. And it used to cheese me off a bit because I was the only son and I didn't get all these brothers and sisters that were— but they were that way it worked, you know. But, um, Yeah, it's, uh, I think integrity is, uh, if you don't have that, you've got nothing, you know. So if you're going to, you do it, and you do it as to the best of your ability. And, and, you know, be, be upfront and, and honorable to people, you know, and treat people the way you want to be treated. Simple as that. Yes. You know, there'd be, there'd be no racism in the world if we all just You don't look at colour, you just look at how the person behaves. If you treat them with respect and you treat them the way you want to be treated, you know.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 1:00:22
Yes.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 1:00:23
Simple. So those old-fashioned values, they still apply today.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 1:00:29
Well, thank you very much for sharing your story and your wisdom. Really appreciate it. It's quite extraordinary. Thank you. Thank you for your time.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 1:00:39
Thanks.
Michael Stewart (part 2) (Guest) · 1:00:41
Thanks much. Bye. Bye.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 1:00:49
Thank you for listening to this episode of Kintsugi Heroes. Thank you to Colin Lilly for permission to use Broken as our theme music for this series. If you enjoyed this conversation, share the podcast with a friend, and let us know by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to support Kintsugi Heroes and the stories we share, head to kintsugiheroes.com.au and follow the instructions to make a tax-deductible donation. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.
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