Neil Morley
Neil left Liverpool at nineteen with nothing but an inner voice telling him he was destined for something different.
Hear this story
Neil Morley grew up in Liverpool with his grandmother, surrounded by poverty and violence. His mother struggled with mental illness; his father was absent. At five years old, he witnessed his uncles fight over an injury he'd suffered and learned early not to tell anyone when he was hurt. By eight, something shifted inside him. Walking down the street, he heard an inner voice telling him he was destined for something different, somewhere else. That belief became the engine that would carry him through everything that came next.
At nineteen, Neil left Liverpool with nothing but that conviction. He arrived in Australia in 1995, jet-lagged and wary, braced for the same hostility he'd grown up with. On his first day, a teenager on a skateboard said g'day mate instead of threatening him. His shoulders dropped for the first time in years. In Liverpool, he'd been in fight-or-flight mode since he was eleven or twelve. Here, he could breathe.
Neil worked every job available, signed for a local football team, and discovered a gift for reading people quickly. That skill, honed by survival in Liverpool, turned out to be exactly what recruitment demands. He met his wife while busking on the streets during a holiday visa. They built a life together in London, where Neil worked as a school counselor and mentor with boys from backgrounds like his own. A teacher's offhand comment, that he could do better, pushed him to try something new. He moved back to Australia, launched a recruitment business, and within a year bought the house with the pool on the Northern Beaches.
When business struggled recently, Neil's response was to give back. He reached out to mentor men and work with kids again, following what makes him tick. He believes that no matter what happens to you, good or bad, you can learn from it and make it positive. His life has taught him that trust your gut, reach out when you need help, and give back when you can.
“I remember walking, I must have been maybe 8, and I was just walking down the street thinking, I'm destined for something different than this... there was something in me that said, you're gonna get out of this and you're gonna do really well for yourself.”
“It was at that moment that I went, my shoulders dropped. I was like, wow, this isn't Liverpool anymore. People don't want to fight me.”
“Following my heart is what saved me.”
The hero, today
Neil believes that no matter what happens to you, good, bad, or ugly, you can make it a positive experience if you ask yourself what you can learn and what you can take from it. Growing up without a father and with a mother struggling mentally, Neil learned to give to young men what he wanted as a child: a positive male role model who believed they could succeed. Neil's years in fight-or-flight mode in Liverpool, shaped by poverty and violence, gave him the will and desire to escape that became the engine of his entire life. When people say one key phrase at the right moment, like the teacher who suggested he could do more, it can change your trajectory and push you outside your comfort zone. Neil trusts his gut feeling in every decision, from recruitment to life choices, and encourages others to do the same instead of second-guessing themselves.
Yes. Neil Morley is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Neil believes that no matter what happens to you, good, bad, or ugly, you can make it a positive experience if you ask yourself what you can learn and what you can take from it.
Growing up without a father and with a mother struggling mentally, Neil learned to give to young men what he wanted as a child: a positive male role model who believed they could succeed.
Neil's years in fight-or-flight mode in Liverpool, shaped by poverty and violence, gave him the will and desire to escape that became the engine of his entire life.
When people say one key phrase at the right moment, like the teacher who suggested he could do more, it can change your trajectory and push you outside your comfort zone.
John Milham (Host) · 00:00
Kintsugi Heroes acknowledges funding and was made possible with support from the Community Broadcasting Foundation. Find out more at cbf.org.au.
Neil Morley (Guest) · 00:18
Welcome to the Kintsugi Heroes podcast, where we share inspirational stories of everyday people going through different challenges and how they overcome them. Please be aware that the story you're about to hear may have moments of deeply felt emotions and personal experiences. If anything you hear has a triggering effect, please reach out to someone who can help keep you safe. If you love this conversation, we'd love you to like and share it with your friends so we can continue to share more inspiration and hope to as many people as possible. Now listen up for our next hero story. In this episode, John Milam welcomes Neil Morley from Liverpool in the United Kingdom. Neil takes us through his challenging childhood, raised by his grandmother, facing poverty and witnessing violence. Despite these hardships, Neil had an unwavering belief in his dreams, which propelled him to leave Liverpool at 19 years old and start a new life in Australia. Embracing various roles from recruitment to mentorship, Neil shares how he addressed his past trauma with a philosophy of learning and giving back. Enjoy this one with Neil Morley.
John Milham (Host) · 01:46
So welcome listeners to another episode of Kintsugi Heroes: Stories That Matter.. And today I have a great privilege to talk to a bloke from— who resides at Sydney, not too far away from me, but has had a journey that has taken him both physically across the world, but also emotionally and psychologically, a long path as well to where he is today. And let me ask you, welcome Neil Morley. Thank you for being here today, mate, on another Kintsugi Heroes podcast.
Neil Morley (Guest) · 02:22
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This conversation includes welcome, three words for who he is, raised by his grandmother in liverpool, the brick through the window, knowing he was destined for something different and music and drama school instead of a proper job.
Thank you.
John Milham (Host) · 02:22
But let me ask you, why don't you tell the listeners who you are and where you've come from?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 02:30
I am, well, I'm from Liverpool in the UK, you know, geographically. I was raised there. I left at sort of, you know, 19, came to Australia. I think I'm a pretty decent bloke. You know, I try to look out for my friends, my neighbors, and keep an eye on everyone, make sure everyone's doing well. And I'm a caring human being, very much so. So yeah, I guess if you were to describe me, I'm loyal, I'm caring, I'm genuine. There'd be 3 keywords to describe who I am.
John Milham (Host) · 03:03
A brilliant set of values to put on your card, mate. What else is on that card?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 03:10
Hard work and, John, you know, I've grown up in a working-class city and watched people, you know, try to pull themselves up. I've watched people live. I always wanted to leave, to be honest with you, from a young age. I always knew it wasn't the right place for me. I always did feel that the grass was greener on the other side.
John Milham (Host) · 03:34
Is the grass— right now, today, do you feel like you're in a patch of green grass?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 03:39
Oh my goodness, I'm in paradise, John. You know, I absolutely love Australia. I always have from the moment I arrived. It's a safe place for me as well. I think we briefly touched on that when we had a conversation last time.
John Milham (Host) · 03:56
Let's go there straight away, right? Because you said you wanted to leave from Liverpool.
Neil Morley (Guest) · 04:03
Look, I guess we can go back. I was raised by my grandmother. My grandmother had 11 children. My mum had mental health issues pretty much before I was born. When I was born, she had a breakdown. She just wasn't capable of raising me. You know, I'd never met my father, never met any of his family. So, you know, from a very early age, you know, I was just sort of left to my own accord. From like 5, I was able to do whatever I wanted. There was a safe home environment. As I mentioned before, it was a working-class city and area. There was a lot of poverty there. So there were a lot of challenges, you know. You know, I remember as a 5-year-old coming home with a bloody eye of a kid who'd thrown a brick at me. A couple of my uncles went down to have a word with the father, and a fight broke out, you know. And I'm sitting in the window watching this happen and feeling actually quite guilty that I was there at 5 years old. So I think what that did then is anything that ever happened to me, I never sort of, as a kid, would tell anyone because I felt something bad would occur from that.
John Milham (Host) · 05:13
Wow.
Neil Morley (Guest) · 05:14
And I didn't want people to get hurt because of me. So I guess that was a— you could put that down as a traumatic experience. Just didn't want anyone to, to get in trouble because of me or have a fight because of me. So, yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 05:28
And so you describe your home as safe, but could that environment actually be safe for a young— you know, like, 5 is ridiculously young to have to make decisions about who you're going to you know, help or hurt?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 05:43
Look, it was a safe environment. There was love there. My mum loved me. She just wasn't capable of expressing that. She had her own battle. As a child, you don't understand mental illness. When everybody around you is telling you that your mum's unwell and you're looking at her and physically she's fine, it's very frustrating as a child to be able to come to terms with that. In my head, I can remember saying, well, she looks fine to me. She looks fine to me. What, why is she different? Um, and it wasn't till, you know, I was probably about 15 or 16 that I started really understanding what was going on with her. So yeah, she was physically there, but just mentally she was, she was elsewhere.
John Milham (Host) · 06:29
11 kids in a, being raised by grandmother, your uncles and, and aunts around you, right? It sounds, you know, you know, American sitcom, but clearly the, the hard streets of Liverpool were not the Brady Bunch. Well, how did you get through that?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 06:46
So when I was born, my mum was the youngest girl and then there was 3 boys after that. So I was born and the 3 boys were still at home. So there was 3 teenage boys, me as a baby, and my mother and my grandmother living there. One of the boys very quickly left. So then there was 2 and they were, they were good, good humans. You know, they're really hearts of gold, would do anything for you. So I was raised in this house with people who would borrow money to buy someone a drink. You know, that was the type of people that they were. Very generous. So I saw that around me. There was a lot of— there was a record player, there was music always being played, and I would always listen to music, which was why I became a musician. No one ever in the family was a musician or into it, but I sort of just loved listening to, you know, Bowie, The Beatles, and all that sort of stuff, which is what they were playing. So that house was a safe house. There were safe people there for me. It was sort of the environment, the suburb we grew up in, where there was a lot of, as you can imagine, a lot of people who were worse off than what we were. You know, there was a lot of theft, there was a lot of violence, domestic violence. Um, it, it, but to me it was just the norm. I didn't know any different.
John Milham (Host) · 08:07
But, but, you know, you mentioned, um, you wanted to leave. Um, where did that come from? What did you have a sense of? There was some something else, or there was— you were destined for something more? Were you getting away from somewhere or going to something?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 08:21
I remember walking, I must have been maybe 8, and I was just walking down the street thinking, I'm destined for something different than this, as you said it. I, I had this belief at that age that I was gonna do really well for myself and get meself out of this. And, you know, it wasn't like Tony Robbins was getting played on the TV or anything like that, but there was no one who really would speak like that. It was a very— and I didn't speak like that, but this is my internal monologue, which is what I was telling me. And I just, I just, there was something in me that said, you're gonna get out of this and you're gonna do really well for yourself. I guess it's just an inner belief and a dream, you know. Without a dream, where would we be, you know? And I think that dream carried me to where I am today.
John Milham (Host) · 09:09
And where, you know, so, so the dream— there you are, 15-year-old aspiring musician in Liverpool. So what, you know, and you're making, you know, making plans to be somewhere else. You, I guess you didn't even know where you were going.
Neil Morley (Guest) · 09:22
So it was constantly a challenge, even the family, like, um I was into music, I was into drama. I left school with no GCSEs, which is the equivalent of HSC. I went to a music and drama school and ended up writing musicals, co-writing musicals, doing plays. I did a couple of plays over in Poland. You know, the whole family was saying to me, get a proper job, become a taxi driver, become a painter and decorator. What are you doing? With all this arty-farty stuff, you know. Um, it was very much— no one seemed to want me to go on the journey that I wanted to go on. Everyone wanted me to just toe the line and get a proper job and not follow my heart. And, you know, following my heart is what saved me.
John Milham (Host) · 10:13
Yeah, well, what was saved? How did you manage?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 10:16
I think when you get into music, when you get into drama, and when you start hanging out with people who, who, who were a little bit different, and they, that was very different from where I grew up. You meet different people, you, you hear different ideas, different ideologies, people think differently, and I just really enjoyed mixing with people like that. Uh, people like that have a lot more dreams and, and, and are more into listening to your dreams. And I think that for me, it was the start of it, really wanting to— something different to what, you know, I felt that the family were painting for me. Sorry for the interruption. This is Ian Westmoreland, the founder of Katsuki Heroes, and thank you for listening to this story from one of our amazing heroes. Our mission is for these stories to provide hope and inspiration to people experiencing life challenges and to also educate the broader community on how best to provide support. If you would like to help us continue to produce more hero stories and cover more adversity themes, we would welcome all donations. These can be made via our website kitsukiheroes.com.au. The donate function is at the bottom of the home page. We'd also welcome any feedback feedback. You can email me direct using ian@kintsugiheroes.com.au. Now let's get back to the story.
John Milham (Host) · 11:52
So do you think you had to be saved from the, from the circumstances you were in?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 11:57
They were doing the what they thought was the best. There was no one else who'd been raised in a family who was artistic, who was into stuff like I was. I was an extrovert. You know, my nan grew up in an era where children should be seen and not heard. And then suddenly I came out with my jazz hands, you know, sort of bumping around. And, you know, it was literally— but there was just me and her when I was a later teenager. And it was like The Odd Couple, you know. She just couldn't stand the fact that I was outgoing. She never really had any outgoing children. So for her, I was a real challenge for her. No, but we were very different human beings. But, you know, she did, she saved me in the beginning, you know, and she was the one when I came home from the hospital who said, he's mine now, I'm gonna take him, because she knew my mother wasn't capable. That just, that my journey was just gonna be different to everyone else's. I was different to everyone else in the family and that there's nothing wrong with that. But at the time I felt that the family felt there was something wrong with that.
John Milham (Host) · 13:06
So how did you then decide to pursue that difference? You know, how did you support it?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 13:13
I guess it was just the inner strength that I, that I had to pursue it, you know, because it was, it was like knocking walls down. Every person would say, you don't want to do that, why do you want to do that, you're never going to get a real job in acting, you're never going to get a real job as a musician. And you were constantly fighting that battle of people trying to block you from getting to what you wanted. So that, that's what the, the biggest challenge was, was just trying to keep going through people telling you that you were no good, that you weren't going to do it, that it wasn't going to happen. And you know, you ask any, any person who's actually made it and they'll tell you that there was a lot of people saying the same stuff to them. Obviously, I, I'm not famous in any way, shape, or form, but I, I enjoyed those parts of me. Like, if I'd have gone into a job as an electrician or a tradie, it would have been soul destroying for me. You know, I needed to express myself. I had a lot of pent-up energy that I couldn't express at home because me nan was an introvert and she didn't like me being an extrovert. So I needed to go somewhere to express all that energy that I had and be on stage. Because that's what I wanted from an early age is I just wanted to be on stage. I wanted to be performing.
John Milham (Host) · 14:28
Where did you— you know, you said you went somewhere. What, what was involved in that?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 14:33
In England, when you left school— I left school at 16, um, they had these things called a Youth Training Scheme, or YTS, and most of them were for tradies, plumbers, um, brickies, etc. But I found one that would pay me, I think it was £38 a week, um, and it was— but it was music and drama and dance. I had to audition to get in, and I did, and I got in. It was 2 years and you did different sorts of semesters in the music, the drama. I even got a distinction in dance, which wasn't exactly what I was into. But yet it was 2 years of that. But 16 to 18 are really key ages for someone, for a young boy, a young girl, whatever it may be. And again, I put myself in a safe environment for those 2 years where I was able to express myself and, you know, enjoy being a musician, enjoy getting up on stage and having a lot of fun with— and meeting some really people, really good people who— a couple of them are still my friends today. And it was just so different from the area I grew up in. I was able to escape to that and do all that particular drama stuff.
John Milham (Host) · 15:44
So what were your dreams then? So, you know, like, you're a kid in Liverpool, right, where, you know the hard streets. Well, you know, how did that change? You saw the world, you're on stage. What, what were your dreams?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 15:56
Well, my dreams— I always wanted to be a football player, soccer player. That was my biggest dream. And then after that, it was I wanted to be a musician or an actor. And I went to the drama and music school. I wouldn't say I pursued any, any of those, but it was a dream, um, that I loved having as a kid. So yeah, I— the dream after that, I think was I, I was gonna make enough money, um, because I did the plays and stuff like that, and we did get paid a bit extra for that. And then I was gonna buy, um, a nice guitar and a music system and then go playing in pubs and clubs. That was sort of the dream after the, the music school. And I had enough money to actually buy that and, and set myself up. And then I was also working at a hamburger joint called Wimpy Hamburgers. I met two Australian boys who were working and One of them said to me, um, if you ever want to come to Australia, I'll give you the place to stay. I'll pick you up from the airport and, you know, you can see if you like it. So that became my dream, uh, from 16 years on. It overtook the buying the equipment, playing in pubs and clubs. So when I sort of turned 18, I applied for the visa, you know, and then I saved up more money. And then when I was 19, I left and came to Australia instead of setting myself up as a musician in the, the clubs and clubs of Liverpool.
John Milham (Host) · 17:21
So you just got— you, you got out, got off at Sydney at the airport?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 17:25
Got off at Sydney Airport. It's quite a funny story. My— the guy who, who picked us up locked the keys in the car, so for the first 3 hours we were, we were stuck at Sydney Airport, uh, jet-lagged, looking out the windows, waiting for his dad to turn up with a spare set of keys. But he's from Narrabeen, uh, you know, not far from Neale Green Street. And, um, so my first day he said, um, there's a surfboard under the house, the beach is, you know, to 2 streets over. Um, I put a wetsuit on, which was quite a difficult task for me, John. At least 2 hours. Yeah, I've never put one on before. I'm walking, uh, towards the beach, and where I come from, if you look someone in the eyes for more than 2 seconds, it's game on. They're like, who are you looking at? You want to fight? Sort of raised and grown up in that environment where that's just what I think is going to happen everywhere. So I'm going down the road, I've got a wetsuit on, a surfboard under my arm, and there's this guy, this young kid, must have been about 17, on a skateboard coming towards me, and he's staring at me in the eyes, and I'm thinking, oh geez, here we go, you know, bracing myself for, who are you looking at, you want to fight? And he goes, g'day mate, how you going? I sort of looked at him and I'm like, I'm good mate, how are you? And he went, yeah mate, sensational. He just kept going on his on a skateboard, and it was at that moment that I went, my shoulders dropped. I was like, wow, this isn't Liverpool anymore. People don't want to fight me. And it was probably the best thing that ever could have happened to me then because I was so relaxed. And, you know, in Liverpool, I'd sort of been in fight or flight mode for probably from the age of 12, 11, 12. Til when I left. So it was just such a beautiful experience to drop your shoulders, feel safe, and it was day one. What happened on a better day?
John Milham (Host) · 19:26
And, uh, you took the Aussie chill pill straight up. That's cool.
Neil Morley (Guest) · 19:30
Oh God, it was— and you know, it was a real poignant life moment. And this guy probably still skating somewhere, not, not having any idea of what that did for me as a human being, and that I'll always remember him just skating past me saying, "G'day, how you going?" Yeah, well, I'm fascinated.
John Milham (Host) · 19:50
First of all, I have to ask, how was your first surfing experience? Were you a natural?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 19:55
Well, we called— we changed it from a surf to a drown. Yeah, uh, I basically just kept getting— I couldn't even get out. The waves were so big I couldn't even get out. So I try and get out, they push me back. And I got burnt as well. I never had any sun cream on. I just got destroyed by the sun, destroyed by the surf. So hence, no, John, I'm not much of a surfer to this day.
John Milham (Host) · 20:19
Damn. So you made— well, I'm glad you got something out of that first beach experience, but it sounds like a very pommie experience.
Neil Morley (Guest) · 20:28
So, yeah, I guess so.
John Milham (Host) · 20:31
Yeah. But so here you are in Australia, 19 years old. And suddenly you relaxed for the first time. What did that mean? What suddenly became possible for you?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 20:41
There was jobs here, John. You know, I could get a job and I had to get a job to stay. But in Liverpool, you know, it was very difficult to get a job. There wasn't a lot of jobs out there. So for me, coming to Australia, not with the sunshine and then the beach was a couple of streets away. I applied for the job and got it. I ended up working on building sites, doing laboring and you know, I was getting $100 a day cash in hand and $500 a week. I couldn't believe it. I was going, this is more money than I can make in Liverpool by far. It kept converting it to pounds, going £250 a week. This is huge. Every week I'd have different jobs. I'd enroll with an agency. I'd be working in a factory stacking shelves, and then I'd be making pizza bases. Then I had a job counting cars on the Sydney Harbour Bridge with a clicker. I did. I, every job was a, um, a real venture, you know. It was a real— I just loved it. It was, it was different. I signed for the local football team, Dy. I instantly got, you know, 22 mates. Life was great, you know. We, we, we'd party together, we'd have barbecues, I'd get on the stage, I'd play guitar, we'd travel to away games and You know, it was, I was, I embraced the culture and the culture embraced me. You know, I never had so much fun in my life.
John Milham (Host) · 22:05
I wonder if, you know, because you're into your business at the moment is recruitment, right? So yeah, RedBlue Recruitment. I wonder if having so many interesting jobs in that time actually sort of ended up offering you direction.
Neil Morley (Guest) · 22:21
What it was about recruitment that enabled me to be successful was basically my upbringing. Recruitment is about figuring out very quickly if the person who you're speaking to is telling the truth and also if they're legit. And growing up in Liverpool, you had to figure out very, very quickly all of those, you know, because you just didn't know what was going to happen. You know, I think one of my uncles used to say, he'd say to me, 'Oh, that guy,' he said, 'don't smile too long in front of him, he might steal all your teeth.' You know, it was it's a city of people who will take their shirts off to give it to you. And where I grew up, it was a lot of heroin addicts as well. So there's huge amounts of theft, which was also why I was in fight or flight mode when I went out. You know, I saw people taking heroin. I think my nan was about to go to church one morning. There's a guy at the bottom of the stairs. We grew up in a flat, in a council flat. We called it an apartment. There's a guy taking heroin. I must have been 13 or 14, I'm like, excuse me, mate, my nan's coming down, can you move on? And I'm sorry, mate, and they'd go elsewhere. And so it was really, um, that whole fight or flight mode was just crazy. So that, that, that day where my shoulders dropped in Australia was the day I'd been waiting for.
John Milham (Host) · 23:43
Yeah. So, mate, you say, yeah, yeah, your life is a bit of gravy, you're having fun. So how did you convert that when you're like on every, um, sunny day, you know, a little bit of cloud happens. What was your cloud as you were, you know, embracing this newfound freedom? What, what came to, to cover the sun a bit?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 24:04
For me, John, it was the, it was the best year of my life. Like, there were, you know, fallouts with friends and little things like that happened, but nothing could overshadow that year from a growth perspective. You know, I, I learned to cook for myself, I learned to clean for myself, I did my own washing. I'd never done that before. My nan used to do all of that, you know. She had 11 children and then there was only me there, so she was always chomping at the bit to do something. So I wasn't even allowed in the kitchen, I wasn't even allowed to wash clothes, you know. So suddenly I have a year where I'm doing it all myself, and I grew, you know. It was a year of growth and a year of getting to know me. Um, I guess the, the, the biggest disappointments were I didn't hear from anyone from home. No one wrote to me, um, nobody called me up. You know, as a 19-year-old who's left home for the first time for the year's big trip, having nobody contact me, you sort of— there's a lot of questions then that come into your mind, you know. Why isn't anyone calling me? Does no one care about me? Well, you know, when it's 19, 20, you know, you're just really finding yourself as a grown adult. And I guess that was my cloud, was the fact that I was really upset at the fact that nobody made an effort to keep in touch me from home.
John Milham (Host) · 25:25
What do you now know about that?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 25:26
They just had their own lives going on. And, you know, maybe they, they— what I found when I went back is you tell people about Australia and they'd listen to you for a couple of minutes and then basically say, well, if it's so good, why don't you go back there? So I think— and that's still the case when I go back, when people say, what's Australia like? And I say, yeah, it's awesome, I love it, and I leave it at that. You know, and when people's lives are not as exciting as yours, or, um, that the sun doesn't shine every day and they've got different challenges to what you've got, um, they don't necessarily want to hear how great your life is. Um, so I'm very wary and mindful of going back and not bigging it up too much. You don't want to rub it in people's faces at all. You've got to be mindful and you've got to be courteous and, you know, have some respect.
John Milham (Host) · 26:22
Brilliant. I'm wondering if, like, so you haven't heard from home. Did that, like, focus your future on Australia then? Like, if you did, you feel like you— this was the place you were destined to be?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 26:35
I felt that my only tie to Australia was me, me, me nan, who was still alive at the time. So I was here '95, '96. I went back. I trained. I wanted to get back in Australia and knew that they had a shortage of chefs, so I went and studied to be a chef and became a qualified chef. Um, I also went to the US and worked with African-American kids teaching music and football and soccer. I did that at Camp America and really enjoyed working with the kids over there. It was a lot of fun. And then when I came back, I, I sort of— around '99, my nan passed on, and then that was catalyst for me to leave for good. Um, I sort of went, you know, that it was sort of— she was the last link for me really to stay there. Everyone else, you know, they were getting on with their own lives, and I recognized that very quickly. So in '99, I actually left Liverpool and came back to Australia on a holiday visa this time, which I wasn't allowed to work because I was a musician. I ended up sort of performing on the streets as a busker. I did really well. I'd walk into a bar with my guitar and say, can I play it tonight? It's aye, you're any good. I'd say, well, I've got my guitar, I'll sing you the song now. And then they go, yeah, you can play tonight. And that was cash jobs and stuff like that. So, um, I just made do for the second year. And in that year, and traveling Australia, I actually met my future, my wife, who today— so I met her, and my nan died '99, and then another woman came into my life the same year, which was my wife.
John Milham (Host) · 28:10
A lot of, uh, a lot of learning going on, a lot of experiences across the world. So what was that like for you? What were you discovering about yourself and about your relationship with the world?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 28:22
That I had a zest for life that had been suppressed in Liverpool, you know, going back to the teenage years. I was, I was depressed. When you're scared to go out your house, you're lying on your bed, and music was a savior for me, you know. Um, I'd play the guitar as a 14, 15-year-old on my bed. And it suited me, it really did. It was— it's in a— having an instrument, um, to be part of you, just to soothe them for the soul. And, and that, for me, well, it was— suited me when I was by myself in that sort of depressed state, you know. I, I, at the time, I, I felt me nan was the only one who really cared for me. And I, and, you know, she was getting older and older and older, and I knew the day was going to come, so I was bracing myself for that a lot of the time growing up, knowing that, you know, she didn't have too much longer left, and where was I going to be, and who was going to look after me at that point. Coming to Australia and then having that new, um, zest for life, um, that I had, it literally gave me life. It showed me I needed to spread my wings, and Australia was the place to do it. It was a safer place to do it. The other thing was, you know, I always felt that if said to someone in Australia, which I did later on many years, I'm going to start my own business, it was, yeah, you can do it. Absolutely. Absolutely. You can do it. Whereas in Liverpool, I always seemed to get, that'll never work. That, why would you want to do that for? You know, just go and get a real job. So the mentality of the Aussies, uh, in comparison to the, the people where I grew up, it was so much more of a positive experience. And I I needed that at the time, you know. I got through the adversity of the 'you can't do that, you can't do this,' and pushed through it as a young kid. But when I became an adult and people were then saying, 'Yes, you can, yes, you can,' that enabled me to, to go out and start my own business. It was that push and that support, you know. Everything about coming to Australia worked out in the end, you know. It just was my happy place.
John Milham (Host) · 30:29
Mate, it seems like you're, you know, like I'd have to say, you're a bit of a lucky bloke, mate. You're on a holiday visa, you find a future wife and manage to navigate the customs as well. How did you end up making the decision to be permanently in Australia?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 30:46
So my wife was an Australian, she had PR at the time when I met her. She's Canadian. But it was too early in the relationship for her to sponsor me. I'd applied through being a chef. Um, and it's a bizarre story. Uh, the, the, the governing body that governed the certificate that I got as a chef had changed names from an MVQ to, from a City and Guilds to an MVQ, and Australia didn't recognize the new qualification. So they, they denied me, um, my visa and said, you need 6 to 12 months more experience as a chef and then we'll accept you. So, uh, Steph and I had only been going out for a short period of time. Um, but she was able to live in the US, in the UK as well, because her mum was from the UK originally. I, I said, look, I'm getting kicked out the country. Um, I'm gonna go back to the UK. We just relocated from the Gold Coast to Sydney to set up our lives together and spent all our money. She, she said, oh, well, I guess I'll go with you. And it was funny, we didn't even have enough money for flights. So I went out one morning to get the paper. And in the, in a restaurant, in a cafe in Freshwater, there was a sign that said, chef wanted, apply within. And I went in and I said, look, I can, I'm a chef, I can work, I can fill in a short-term gap that you've got. I'm gonna have to leave after maybe a month or 3 weeks. They gave me a job, $100 a day, cash in hand, and they got me our flights to go back to the UK. And then we landed, I think we landed in the UK with maybe £100. And then to set up a life for ourselves. Um, and we, we weren't going to go back to Liverpool to live. That was never going to happen. Um, so we settled in Brighton for a year, and then we were in London for 6 years. And, and that's when I did a lot of the work with kids as a mentor. Um, in that sort of 6 years, um, I ended up being a mentor. I worked with kids who were borderline about to go to kids' prison. Um, and I also ended up being a high school counselor for 3 years in a London school.
John Milham (Host) · 32:50
Of course, mate. Um, that seems absolutely sensible. But they're like bringing that, um, zest for life, right, to kids. And I, I often, you know, think of, you know, like the shows from the UK, you know, how, you know, it seems quite gray for kids. Is that— was that your experience, right? What, what was the experience of the kids you were helping?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 33:10
The reason I got the job is because all the kids that I worked with were from a similar, um, upbringing as I was, like, as in area. So, um, you know, they— I, I understood and got them, um, because I knew what it was like to grow up in an environment like that. And also, you've got to give with kids before you actually get— receive something from them. And I had a lot to tell them, a lot of stories about my upbringing. So they, they, they sort of saw me as one of them because of the upbringing, because Usually I never had a degree. I was the first, one of the first mentors in the school, school counselors to get the job without a degree. And that was just because of my life experiences that I had that was so similar. Um, and I just got a very unique relationship and the kids sort of got me. I was, I was pretty tough as well. Like I, I never suffered fools, but I think they needed that too. Uh, they needed that safety that they knew. That albeit I was tough, I was also very fair and I was there to listen to them. And I've had a couple of the kids reach out to me over the years and wrote me some really beautiful emails and Facebook messages or whatever it may be. And I think people used to say to me, because you didn't get paid a lot of money for those kind of roles, but you get the beauty of it is years later you get paid back for it with those kind of messages. That's why you do it. You do it because you care. You do it because you want to change your life or try to change a life to make it better. Something you say might stick and it did, you know, the kids who wrote to me have said some beautiful things. If it wasn't for you, I don't know where I'd be. And that's a beautiful thing.
John Milham (Host) · 34:53
Yeah, totally. I always find when I, you know, when I've been mentoring particularly young people, I've learned as much as they've learned as they get out of it. You know, what did you learn?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 35:05
It takes you back to, to your own childhood, and you, you see kids who've, you know, you— I'm a firm believer that you, you know right from wrong, no matter, you know, what kind of upbringing you, you've come from. You know right from wrong. And there's a point in your life where you choose the left door or the right door, the right, you know, or the, you know, whatever it may be. And I remember what it was for me when I was younger, and I've watched these kids make the decision to go down the wrong door, watched what it's done to their lives. And I've also watched kids make the right decisions as well, and then been able to see, um, through them requesting me on Facebook what they've done with their lives. And I think for me, it sort of highlighted that, that sort of stuff. And as you said before, it teaches you more so sometimes than it gives to them. And then recognizing what you didn't have in your life, you know, not having a father, having a mother who had mental health issues, you're able to give them something that you wanted, which is what they want as well. Yeah, well, you know, and, and, uh, a male, a positive male role model was what a lot of these boys wanted.
John Milham (Host) · 36:24
Yeah, it's so true.
Neil Morley (Guest) · 36:25
And they needed to know that my life wasn't hunky-dory and that I never went to university. That path was just never there for me. There was, I, one thing I always believed was that I was never gonna go to university cuz I just wasn't clever enough. At the time I wasn't apply, I couldn't apply myself. You know, I, I had ADHD. I was off the wall with ADHD. I, I was a nightmare in class. The class clown was, was my report. Year after year after year. I excelled at sports, I excelled at languages, and I excelled at music, um, and that was about it. Um, but they were all natural gifts that I had, you know. Um, but yeah, given to those kids and also receiving from those kids, you're completely right, John. It, it goes hand in hand with those jobs. Um, and I, again, you look at Australia being that fantastic year of my life, the team that we had in that high school were phenomenal. We had a ball, you know, it's a lot of fun. And, you know, some really, once again, beautiful times in my life living in London and having that experience of working with the kids and feeling hugely valued. Like, I thought it was the best job I'd ever had in my life. And one teacher got to know me and said, why are you doing this job? She said, you could do so much better than this.. And I was thinking to myself, but this is the best job I've ever had in my life. But then what, what that does to you, it gets you to think, well, maybe there is something out there that's— and then you push yourself that little bit more. And you know, when, when people come into your lives and they say little things and you latch onto it, that's what can change your life and, and help you get up the ladder to push yourself harder, go outside your comfort zone. You know, and her saying that was another thing that stuck with me to say, well, we've been here 3 years, then we did relocate to Australia for good. And I went, yeah, I need a new challenge. I need to do something different. I need to push myself again. I've enjoyed that, but I've got a family now that I need to support and we need to buy a house on the Northern Beaches. And, you know, I, I, I once again changed careers and, and went into recruitment.
John Milham (Host) · 38:43
So you, you were there, you know, counselor and mentor. Uh, you got married to, uh, your, um, Canadian, um, slash Australian sweetheart, and then, you know, decided, well, well, let's go back to Australia. How did that happen?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 38:58
It was always the plan. Um, I didn't want to raise my son in, um, in London, to be honest with you. Like, having worked in a high school with teenage kids, I'd seen good, really good kids go off the rails due to who they were hanging out with. It wasn't Australia, you know, as I mentioned before, Australia was always the, the big patch of green grass that I wanted to get back to. So the conversations, uh, with, with my wife were always, we want to get back to Australia, that's the place I want to raise my children. So, um, my son was born in England and we left when he was 1. And the minute we came back, it was just again exactly what we left, the most beautiful place, unknown beaches. And, you know, but there was the challenge. I was offered a job when we landed as a drug and alcohol counselor with kids with Ted Knopps. My wife said to me, she said, I love the fact that you've been offered an amazing job to change kids' lives again, but this just isn't gonna give us the life or enable us to be able to buy a property here. You know, you, you're gonna have to go outside your comfort zone and maybe try and create something new. And the same day I was offered a job in recruitment, which was a lesser base salary, but, you know, with commission structures you could make more money. And I just went, you know what, I'm, I'm gonna do this. And, you know, I, I must have made 30 cold calls a day, just calling people up on the phone, pushing myself outta my comfort zone. You know, and, and, and, you know, a lot of people couldn't even understand me. I had to corporate myself a lot more. I had to refine my accent a lot more so people would understand me and use my humor. You know, cold calling is about being different from the 20 calls that they've had before. You know, and one of my favorite calls out the lot was a guy in Monavale who was after welders at the time, and I rang him at 4 o'clock on a Friday arvo. And he said, mate, he says, you're obviously not from around these parts because, uh, it's 4 o'clock on a Friday and in Australia we call it beer o'clock. Call me another time. And he put the phone down. So I rang him on Monday morning and I said, g'day, Jeff, how are you? And he went, who are you? I said, I rang you at beer o'clock on Friday. I said, I'm not trying to be funny, Jeff, but if it's still beer o'clock, mate, you've got a problem. And he right laughing. And he said, whatever you're selling and buying, he said, these guys had companies all over Australia and I got business from the whole lot of the companies all over Australia. And that was just because of a little bit of a giggle and a laugh. And I think that was a turning point in my sort of sales career of, you know, I can do this, I can differentiate myself from, you know, g'day, you're looking for a welder, you know, it was just, I had a very different approach. And that was the beginning of me. Sort of being successful in the recruitment space.
John Milham (Host) · 41:50
Wow. So, and, and what did that success mean?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 41:53
Um, so I worked for other people for a couple of years and then realized that if I wasn't any good, they would get rid of me anyway. So I thought, you know what, I realized how much I was making then, and then went, geez, if I was making that much for myself, we could— all our dreams could come true. We could buy the house on the Northern Beaches, you know, we That was always a dream. We'd actually written it down, which is extremely powerful, um, and written down our dreams and goals, uh, years before. And then I went out on my own again, a lot of support from friends saying, yeah, you can do it. And yet I just hit the phones, did what I knew to do, what I was taught to do. And it was an instant success. Like, you know, I started getting business, I started filling roles, I started making money.. And yeah, it was, I'd like to say in the beginning it was up and down, up and down, but it actually was a line just going up in the beginning. You know, I was good at cold calling. I was good at picking up roles. I was good at filling the business. So yeah, we certainly, there was, you know, I lost a business partner, unfortunately, and we tried to grow the business. So there was that struggle in the beginning. And I think when I lost the business partner and We got rid of some stuff, you know. I was, uh, I say about $66,000 in the hole the business was. And, um, I, on a year, I was my head down, bum up, I was hitting the phones again. And within a year we bought a house. So it was just hard work getting in there, doing what I knew, and, and making it happen. And, you know, we suddenly went from looking at potentially an apartment in DIY to, you know, a 3-bedroom house with a swimming pool in Wheeler Heights. And we, we're just, we still to this day, uh, uh, very, um, appreciative. Um, and we don't take it for granted. We, we still walk out, you know, nearly 9, 10 years later and say to each other, look what we've achieved, look what we've got. And, and just, just never for one minute take it for granted.
John Milham (Host) · 43:57
And it's interesting because you've, gone from streets and hard days of Liverpool all the way through to the sun and surf and business acumen of where you are now. Is that what it's all about? Or is there something underneath that you feel has been more— has also been important?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 44:19
It's always about the journey, what you pick up, what you learn, what you can give back. I'm a big believer in the universe. Rewarding, rewarding, you know. You give, you give, you give, you will, you will get back. And it's a bit of a rags-to-riches story, John, and everybody loves rags-to-riches story, you know. The, the growing up in Liverpool, the, the depression, um, you know, beaten up a number of times on the streets, which is why I was in fight-or-flight mode, and then not telling anyone about it because of what happened when I was 5. All, all that earlier stuff gave me the, the will and the desire to leave. If that hadn't happened, I may not have had the, the, the will, the desire, the want to, to, to escape. You know, things happen for a reason sometimes, whether it's good stuff or bad stuff, but it's how you deal with it and how you make it work for you. I seem to have made, made it work for me. You know, I, I loved Growing up in Liverpool, I played football all the time. It's all I ever did. Um, I was always fit, I was always healthy. I did have a safe place at home with my nan. You know, there were other things going on. Um, but you know, I, I came to Australia and I had a new adventure, and it was, it was a phenomenal adventure. And then I met a woman who, you know, my wife's from a sort of, um, more of a middle upper class background, so She enabled me to challenge myself a lot more. She supported me. I think if it wasn't for her, I wouldn't be who I am today. So the different people who you meet in your life and taking a— watching the Arnie documentary not long ago, and at the end he says, you can call me anything, he says, but don't call me self-made. Because of all the people that you meet along the way who help you, who say a key phrase that will change your mentality, that will get you to pivot and move in a different direction. It's this exactly the same with me. If it wasn't for meeting key people at key times, you know, I wouldn't be who I am today. If it wasn't having my grandmother take me from my mother at an early age and say, he's mine, I'm gonna raise him. And if it wasn't, if I wasn't left to my own accord from the age of 5 to, to do what I want and make decisions, I wouldn't be as autonomous. I wouldn't be as driven as, you know, it— things happen for a reason, and it's all good stuff for me. You know, what I told you is that the journey that has enabled me and made me who I am today, and I'm happy, and I like being who I am today. And had I not gone through the adversities that I'd gone through, I wouldn't be this guy today, you know, and I'm in a much better position to be able to now give to people. The journey has, has been it, that, that's, it's been a, the journey's been an up and down. Absolutely. But a lot of fun.
John Milham (Host) · 47:29
It's a, you, you talk about the, you know, the journey's the important bit. You're a young man with a young family, so it's, very much not over. Where do you want to take it and what do you think that will look like?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 47:44
I guess I want to go back to what I did when I worked with kids again or even adults. We talked about Consejeros and what you guys do, which is why we're here today. Having gone through a tough time in the last 15 months with the business not doing, as well as we would like. I just felt that I wanted to give back. Um, and I reached out to obviously yourself to get involved in more charitable stuff. You know, we've talked about my journey and, and what I've learned and what I've become, and I just really feel that that resonates with me now, whether it be Mentoring Men, working with kids. I just want to go back to that sort of stuff and you know, when business picks up, when I start doing well again, and just giving more time to that sort of stuff that makes me tick, that I know I'm innately good at because of the journey that I've been on and knowing that I can do a lot with it. So yeah, um, that's sort of what I'd like to get involved with, John, to be honest with you.
John Milham (Host) · 48:52
Yeah, you mentioned, uh, like moments, you know, a conversation here or you know, that changed direction, gave you, uh, you know, some, an expansion. What do you think you, you, you could tell people listening that would be helping them, you know, react or respond or invite those kind of moments into their life?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 49:13
I think for me, in, uh, in hindsight, no matter what you go through, you can make it a positive experience. You can learn, uh, learn from everything. Whether it be good, bad, ugly, no matter what, what do I learn? What, what can I take from this? And that has always been my mantra. And also look within first. I don't blame anyone for anything. I always look within myself first and foremost. What could I have done differently here? What can I learn from this? What can I take from this? And that is rich. You know, I, I feel it's really worked in my favor. When you're in it, when it is a bad experience and you're in it, it's not a lot of fun. You'll get through it. And when you get through it, learn from it and start moving forwards. And, you know, yeah, reach out to people if you do need help. There's the good thing about Australia especially is there's always someone there who's willing to help you. Mm-hmm. And that's what I found.
John Milham (Host) · 50:14
Mm-hmm.
Neil Morley (Guest) · 50:15
It's just got that way about it. People want to help people become successful. Everyone likes a good luck story. Everyone likes a get rich story. Everyone likes a rags to riches, whatever it may be. But you can't go through life without stuff happening to you. It's completely impossible. Yeah. No, and then I say to my kids, I said, you know, happiness is up here, life is sort of in the middle. And, you know, sometimes you go lower than that and you go higher, and you, you take the rough with the smooth, and you, you enjoy the journey for what it is. And for me, and my kids are learning the same, and you give back when you can. I always say I love giving gifts more so than receiving gifts because I like looking at people's faces. You know, there's people who love receiving gifts. No, we're all unique in, in what makes us tick. And, but not, none of it's wrong, none of it's bad. It's just who we are.
John Milham (Host) · 51:11
I loved how you said, you know, when the business was struggling a little bit and, you know, that trajectory sort of flattened out a bit for you, your solution was to decide to do more for others. And it's a unique approach and I acknowledge that. I love that. Wouldn't it be amazing if the world, if every bloke who felt that pressure or struggled or when businesses were doing it tough, we decided that was the best way out of it.
Neil Morley (Guest) · 51:40
Yeah, it just felt right. It was actually my transformational coach mentioned it to me and she said, you know, you'd be really good with Mentoring Men. I Googled Mentoring Men, came across you guys and Kintsugi Heroes, and I was just like, yeah, this, it felt, it resonated and it just felt right. I think follow your heart and if it feels right, then it must be right for you. Indecisive moments when you're not quite sure, it's the feeling, the gut feeling that you go with. And I use it in recruitment. Is this guy right for this role? What's my gut feeling here? Oh, actually, you know what, I think he is. Put them forward for the job.
John Milham (Host) · 52:20
And, uh, maybe, yeah, yeah, maybe that's, uh, you know, intuition is something, um, more blokes could rely on, I reckon.
Neil Morley (Guest) · 52:26
Yeah. And some, some, a lot of us just don't trust ourselves. Trust our gut feeling. And if there is a gut feeling there, I'd say trust in it, trust in yourself and go with it.
John Milham (Host) · 52:37
Fantastic, mate. Been a great conversation. Thank you so much for sharing an amazing journey and incredible experiences that you've brought to the Northern Beaches. And you know, you're enriching our lives here.
Neil Morley (Guest) · 52:48
Let me just finish on one thing.
John Milham (Host) · 52:50
What are you really looking forward to?
Neil Morley (Guest) · 52:53
John, I'm looking forward to watching my children grow up to be, um, beautiful people. They already are showing huge signs that's happening. I'm looking forward to going back to traveling the world again, learning new languages, to playing guitar again, maybe even joining a band. And, you know, the kids are in their teens now. They're not as reliant on us as they were. So my wife and I are now, you know, trying to plan what does life look like once they've fled the nest, you know, and doing their own thing and on their own journey. And I'm looking forward to, to that, you know, where we've been raising the kids, we've been working, building businesses, paying off mortgages. And I'm really looking forward to that. And, and, you know, doing charitable stuff as well. My wife wants to do the same, you know, learning, giving, learning, listening. Speaking, just being part of it all and enjoying what this beautiful place allows us to have. Fantastic.
John Milham (Host) · 53:59
Well, it sounds like there's plenty left in the journey, mate. I appreciate you sharing it so far, and I look forward to hearing about the future adventures, mate. Thank you so much, Neil. It's been awesome.
Neil Morley (Guest) · 54:11
You too. I really do appreciate your time, mate. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Kintsugi Heroes. Please like and share the show to your friends so we can get this out to even more people. If you have a story you'd like to share with us, please reach out using the contact details below. And join us next week for our next hero's story. Until then, keep being you, and remember that we are all heroes in our own unique way. Way. Only when it's broken, only when it's broken, when it hits you in the middle of the night and the truth burns so bright. Only when it's broken. Only when it's broken. Take pride in those cries. It's only for tonight, and then you rise. Only when you're broken. Only when you're broken. Only when you're broken.
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