Mike Armstrong
A 23-year Army veteran discovers that sharing his PTSD diagnosis publicly gives strangers permission to seek help they've avoided for years.
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Mike Armstrong spent 23 years in the Army, including time in Special Forces and cyber roles, while keeping a secret: he was also an artist. When he returned to art school after service, a professor rejected his application with the question: what would an army officer know about art? By the end of his time at university, that same professor apologized, admitting he had learned more about the military experience through knowing Mike than he ever would have otherwise.
After his medical discharge, Mike lost his uniform and his role. He threw himself into art and martial arts to rebuild meaning. He started the Voices of Veterans series, photographing veterans as they interact with molasses, a metaphor for PTSD. The process allows them to externalize the experience, get it out of their heads and into their bodies, and wash it away. When Mike was hospitalized for a PTSD assessment, instead of hiding it, he posted a video about his hospital stay on social media. The first response came from someone who said his honesty gave them permission to seek help. That message kept him going.
Mike teaches both art and Brazilian jiu-jitsu from the same principle: vulnerability with another person creates the deepest human connection. Recovery from PTSD, he has learned, is not about being cured. The scars stay. What matters is building a life worth living through community, purpose, good health, and positive relationships. When bad moments come, you have enough good things to pull you through. Mike urges people not to let PTSD define them. You are not your diagnosis. You are so much more than that.
“If you want to connect with another human, vulnerability is a really powerful way to build that connection.”
“PTSD is like this manifestation of these experiences that we're sort of difficult processing for a whole variety of reasons. And shame is probably first and foremost.”
“Recovery is about, like, how do you recover a life that's worth living? That's recovery.”
The hero, today
Mike joined the Army as a young artist because he wanted adventure and to support his family, not realizing it would become a 23-year career that kept a nagging part of him, the artist, buzzing quietly in the background. When a university professor rejected Mike's art school application because of his military background, Mike stayed kind and eventually won that professor over; the professor later confessed he had learned more about the military experience through knowing Mike than he ever would have otherwise. The Voices of Veterans series uses molasses as a metaphor because it allows veterans to externalize PTSD, get it out of their heads and into their bodies where they can see it, interact with it, and wash it away, and this process has helped save lives. Mike was hospitalized for PTSD assessment and, instead of hiding it, posted a 10-minute video about his hospital stay on social media; the first response came from someone who said his honesty gave them permission to seek help, and that message kept him going. Recovery from PTSD is not about being cured or never having nightmares again; it is about building a life worth living through community, purpose, good health, and positive relationships so that when bad moments happen, you have enough good things to pull you through. Mike teaches both art and Brazilian jiu-jitsu from the same principle: vulnerability with another person, whether you are a model posing nude or a training partner trusting someone not to hurt you, creates the deepest human connection and the strongest bonds.
Yes. Mike Armstrong is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Mike joined the Army as a young artist because he wanted adventure and to support his family, not realizing it would become a 23-year career that kept a nagging part of him, the artist, buzzing quietly in the background.
When a university professor rejected Mike's art school application because of his military background, Mike stayed kind and eventually won that professor over; the professor later confessed he had learned more about the military experience through knowing Mike than he ever would have otherwise.
The Voices of Veterans series uses molasses as a metaphor because it allows veterans to externalize PTSD, get it out of their heads and into their bodies where they can see it, interact with it, and wash it away, and this process has helped save lives.
John Milham (Host) · 00:00
Kintsugi Heroes acknowledges funding and was made possible with support from the Community Broadcasting Foundation. Find out more at cbf.org.au. Welcome to the Kintsugi Heroes podcast, where we share inspirational stories of everyday people going through different challenges and how they overcome them. Please be aware that the story you're about to hear may have moments of deeply felt emotions and personal experiences. If anything you hear has a triggering effect, please reach out to someone who can help keep you safe. If you love this conversation, we'd love you to like and share it with your friends so we can continue to share more inspiration and hope to as many people as possible. Now listen up for our next hero story. In this episode, John Millum hears from Mike Armstrong, a man who has walked two paths: a soldier and an artist. After serving in the military for 23 years, including time in Special Forces and cyber roles, Mike returned to art school determined to blend his two worlds. Facing initial rejections and biases,, he pushed through to become both an artist and a mentor.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 01:31
As the director of Voices for Veterans, Mike uses his art to share the experiences of veterans dealing with PTSD and his own.
John Milham (Host) · 01:41
Enjoy this one with Mike Armstrong.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 01:47
So listeners, welcome back to Kintsugi Heroes Podcast, and today Uh, with our Stories That Matter series, I'm really, um, amazed and excited to introduce Mike Armstrong as our guest today and hear a little bit about, uh, his journey, which is fascinating and important. Welcome, Mike, first of all, uh, and so great to have you on, mate.
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Mike was hospitalized for PTSD assessment and, instead of hiding it, posted a 10-minute video about his hospital stay on social media; the first response came from someone who said his honesty gave them permission to seek help, and that message kept him going.
This conversation includes two paths: soldier and artist, art school, then the army, the warrior and the artist aren't opposites, rejected by the university because of the uniform, the professor changes his mind and making ptsd visible through molasses.
John Milham (Host) · 02:13
Thanks, John. Pleasure to be here.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 02:14
Telling the listeners, Mike, uh, you are an artist, a mentor, uh, and of course that comes out of service as a, you were in the armed forces and you're as as a veteran, you've been involved in supporting other veterans. So you're the director of Voices of Veterans, and also fascinatingly, you are sensei— is that right— for Rogue Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Studios, and using that system to develop support systems for other veterans, particularly in the PTSD world, which is something that you have been dealing with yourself. As an artist, you are an exhibiting artist and of course a student. You've got qualifications coming out of your pits. And I love the works that you've been exhibiting, which really, for me personally, have described in a very visual and meaningful way some of that PTSD experience that you and other veterans are sharing. So welcome again, mate. And I suppose my poor bio will be improved by your, you telling the listeners and myself a little bit about your journey to where you are today.
John Milham (Host) · 03:31
Ah, appreciate the introduction. Very flattered by that. My background, like it's interesting and it always raises a few eyebrows when I describe how I sort of started off on my journey. 'Cause I, when I left high school, I went to art school and I became a painter. And then I did a right turn after art school when I realized, look, my craft was pretty good, but I had no idea what sort of stories I wanted to tell. And adventure beckoned, and I ended up joining the armed forces. And a lot of people sort of scratched their head, what do you mean you're an artist and then you joined the army? For me, it seemed like a fun, adventurous, sort of interesting thing to do. I joined to sort of get some skills. And I had a young family at the time and I wanted to support them, and the Army seemed like a good way to do that. But what I didn't realize is that was the beginning of a 23-year adventure in Army where I've done a wide variety of jobs as an enlisted soldier and as an officer transferring across to that side. I've deployed multiple times all over the place— Afghanistan, Timor, and Iraq. And I spent time in counterterrorism unit, um, with TAG East. Special Forces selection, though, unfortunately, um, got through selection but got beat up pretty bad, um, early on in the reinforcement cycle and ended up having to pull the pin on that. But, uh, ended up serving with Special Forces regardless, but as a non-qual there. And, uh, so opened my eyes up to that sort of environment, spent time in cyber, working in dark basements and electronic warfare and unarmed combat and close quarter fighting, teaching courses all over Australia. So that was sort of this adventurous sort of Army career that I had where I got to sort of, sort of scratch all those sort of curiosity sort of itches that I had as a young man. But this nagging little sort of buzz at the back of my head about this, this art side of me was still sort of buzzing away. And while I was sort of in Afghanistan, I saw this Ben Quilty catalog of his Out of Afghanistan exhibition, which had just opened at the War Memorial. And I looked at that and I thought, oh, there's some good images in here, but I felt a little bit indignant about the idea that there's this outsider that just got sort of posted in as a tourist to sort of have a look at the experience of veterans and then produced all these works. And I thought, I think there's more to us than that. Like, I thought, like everyone just sort of— reputation that Ben got off the back of that exhibition, I just thought, hang on a second, there are more stories and surely there are veterans or people currently serving that are artists that could actually tell a more nuanced story. Than what Ben could. And then I realized who I was talking about was me. And I thought, well, maybe I should put my money where my mouth is. And so I enrolled back at art school and did a Master of Arts then. And really for the sole purpose of trying to unify those two halves of my existence. Like, 'cause I'd kept my, my art world was my dirty little secret, was that I was an artist in army because none of my army friends knew. They'd come over to my house and I'd see paintings on the wall and they're like, occasionally someone would sort of look at a little bit more closely and look at the signature and go, hang on a second, is this yours? And I'd put two and two together and my secret would be out.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 07:13
Well, it's, I'm interested in that, you know, the dichotomy of it, right? Because there's a basic assumption there that being artistic is being pacifistic or soft. Did you, Did you feel congruent in both sides of you? And it was just a matter of like allowing them both to exist?
John Milham (Host) · 07:32
No, I don't think there was a conflict and I definitely don't think there's a conflict now. Before I joined the Army, like in my teens, I was— I became a black belt in karate. I was a sensei back then. BJJ, we refer to the instructors, professors. That is how in Brazil they refer to them as professor. In Australia, professor, of course, has different connotations to it. So I don't use the name professor. I usually just go by coach or Mike, but it's a little less formal than my karate days. But back when I was doing karate, I was fascinated by the Yamabushi, which is this warrior, this mountain aesthetic. They were like this idea that there was this person that was both capable in the arts of war, but also highly gifted and capable in the arts, the soft arts. And that there was this balancing that occurs when you combine those two halves. And I really liked that idea as a teenager and it stayed with me. And I think that the yin and the yang, the balancing that you get from both the hard and the soft arts is really important. And, and when I look reflectively back at my experience in the military and I look at some of the senior officers that we have today, and I sort of think these people probably need a little bit more of a connection to the softer side. Yeah, like, like I think that's actually a really important component to being able to be an effective warrior is actually understanding both halves of that equation.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 09:17
I so agree with that because it's not an unusual aesthetic to have the warrior poet that you talk about. That was a Victorian period concept, right? So guys like Rupert Brooke. But I love that observation. How can you lead men unless you understand them or have some concept of what they are giving you or how you motivate them? I think that's a really cool thing. So how did you, you know, when you went back to art school, was that a tough choice?
John Milham (Host) · 09:48
I think that the choice to go back to art school was, it was a little daunting, but it was actually hard from a logistics standpoint. My application got rejected on the grounds that I was military.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 10:02
Wow.
John Milham (Host) · 10:02
And so I've, full of enthusiasm, I've submitted my application and then I heard nothing and I bumped into a gentleman who was a reservist that I'd worked with. He was an administrator at the university and he goes, hey Mike, how'd your application go? Because he was one of the ones that, he sort of poked me and he said, Mike, you really should put your application. I think this would be a good idea for you. He goes, how's your application gone? And I go, oh, I think fine. Like, I'm waiting to hear back, but it was a pretty solid application. And he goes, Mike, like uni starts Monday. Like if you haven't heard, like something's obviously gone wrong. And I'm like, oh, okay. And he goes, look, leave it with me and I'll find out where your application's at. And so he tracked it down and he found that, he found that professor that literally received my application. His response to it was, what would an army officer know about art? And destroyed it. Didn't even give me the courtesy to even let me know that I was being rejected.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 11:07
Wow.
John Milham (Host) · 11:07
And so my friend, the administrator, he ripped him one and said, pull your head out of your ass. And then next thing I know, I got accepted to university. And lo and behold, this professor was my first— that was the lecturer for my first subjects, uh, which he, he again, he tried to fail me on and we, that ended up in a little bit of a sort of a tussle. And then when I appealed to, all right, well, let's go talk to the head of school about this, it all sort of suddenly disappeared. And suddenly I got my pass and I was able to continue on with the course. That all happened while I was working remotely. Like I was working externally at that stage. I was actually in Iraq at the time doing these subjects and I became friends with My second lecturer, who ended up— we're very good friends today and I love her dearly. She's a wonderful, wonderful professor and just a beautiful human. And so I'm doing these, these units while I'm in Iraq, in Iraq, and she's sending me these packages of sort of reading and notes and things like that because comms were pretty, pretty terrible then. And then when I got back from that, though, I let them know that, hey, I'm coming in. Army gave me a year off to study and I was doing a master's in cybersecurity that year and I thought, well, why not do my Master of Arts, finish that off that year as well, because I had about a year's worth of units to go. And so I enrolled in both and was able to do it face to face for the first time. So I walked into the university and like, hey, my name's Mike, I'm in the Army and I like nudes and, and People were like, who is this guy? And quickly I sort of developed a reputation for being enthusiastic and happy and friendly and welcoming and just interested in what everyone was doing because I was. I look back at my university years when I left high school and I feel like I wasted it. Until you've been in the workforce and you don't have time to study, you don't realize just what a gift the opportunity to study is. And so when I got back there, I was like, I was the happiest person in the room. Like, I'm studying and Army's paying me to be, to do study. You couldn't get the smile off my face. And so I wanted to do everything. I wanted to talk to everyone and I wanted to be everywhere and all at once. And so that sort of enthusiasm rubbed off. And so by the end of the year, I had known the story about this lecturer that rejected me because my friend, the administrator, told me, but I never let anything on. And I became friends with this professor. And at the end of my time at the university, he sat down with me and he confessed to me. He goes, I rejected your application and I'm sorry. So sorry I did that. And I've learned I know so much more about the military experience as a result of getting to know you and your art. Thank you. And I think that was a really— like that whole experience for me was a really important lesson. We move through life with these assumptions about people, about certain things, and we actually don't know. We don't know what it's They're in their head. In their head, when they saw military, they're expecting something out of a movie because that was really at this university, that was their only— within the arts department, this was their only experience with it. And so to have someone come in and be able to debunk those ideas was really powerful for them. Sorry for the interruption. This is Ian Westmoreland, the founder of Katsuki Heroes, and thank you for listening to this story from one of our amazing heroes. Our mission is for these stories to provide hope and inspiration to people experiencing life challenges and to also educate the broader community on how best to provide support. If you would like to help us to continue to produce more hero stories and cover more adverse thematic themes, we would welcome all donations. These can be made via our website, kintsugiheroes.com.au. The donate function is at the bottom of the home page. We'd also welcome any feedback. You can email me direct using ian@kintsugiheroes.com.au. Now let's get back to the story.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 15:58
Yeah, in many ways, you know, they were responding to an ideology as opposed to a person, and you sort of personified that.
John Milham (Host) · 16:06
Yeah. And so, I mean, I just recently had a solo show up at the University of Southern Queensland. So I have a wonderful connection to the university now. And they awarded— there's a little thing in the background there. They awarded me Alumni of the Year last year, which was just a wonderful surprise. And this is my lecturers from back in the day. They saw what I'd been doing. Since leaving Army and they put together this nomination for me and what a wonderful gesture to come from them. So, the friendships that I've gained from that university experience have just been fabulous. And so, there is a tension between the arts and the military, but I don't think there should be. There's a mistrust between like I saw this with the Voices of Veterans series, there's a mistrust from certain officers who are very uncomfortable to look at what the impact of service has on their people. I'm not making a moral judgment on these. I'm just sort of looking at, this is what is happening to these people. This is what they're experiencing. And at the very least, we should have some compassion and some empathy towards them and then do what we can to support them. And same with the art side. The art side, sort of every time I move into a new space and they find out that I'm a veteran, there's an immediate mistrust, like a devalidation of who I am as a result of that. They're like, well, you mustn't be a serious artist because you've done that, come from that space. But Australia has an enormous history of veterans, artists serving in the military. Like a strong history. People, I think if we rattled off the names of some of the artists, the great artists that all Australians would recognize, we would be surprised by how many Archibald Prize winners have been veterans, for example. I can't remember the figure, but my friend from the Australian National Veterans Art Museum, he's all over this. He could tell you all the names and all the dates and all the prizes. I remember him rattling it off to me and I'm just like, "Oh man, the veteran community, the architects, the musicians, the poets, the writers, the visual artists that have come out of that service and continued to make art." It's what a marvellous thing. But whereas nowadays we're quite suspicious of it.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 18:47
On that point, right, that suspicion, where do you think that comes from? Having, you know, stood in both camps, you know, so powerfully adapted to those both areas. What do you think drives that suspicion?
John Milham (Host) · 19:02
It's a political ideology. Universities are left-leaning. Very left-leaning and the art schools are about as far left as you can get from that as well. And so they're, it's a political stance. So when they see me as military, they see me as a political object that they stand against just like, so, so rather than recognizing me as a, as a fellow human being and a traveler, in life and trying to figure things out. And that the idea that there's a distrust of hierarchies, there's a distrust of the military and the police and the political systems, and there's a distrust of all that. People literally have turned to me when they've found out that I'm a veteran and they go, "Oh, you are a baby killer," and then just turn around and walk walk off. And you're just like, hang on a second, I, yeah, I don't recall killing a baby ever, but, um, thanks for just sort of pigeonholing me so completely. Yeah. And, and what it is, is very— when you've been, when you've grown up in an echo chamber, so what I've seen within the art schools is that people have existed within that arts environment, and if there are if it's an orthodoxy that exists within there, like if there's a particular framework of views that are acceptable within there, if anything outside of those views come into that space, they're already viewed with suspicion. That's all it is. It's just that there isn't the diversity of viewpoints or people within the arts. Everyone's happy with the conformity, but they don't realize that actually for a group of people that are meant to be nonconformists, they're actually highly conformative. And they're like, look at me, look at how different I am, but I'm actually the same as everyone around me. And all my views are exactly so novel, but they're all the same as everyone around me. And you look at that and you're like, okay, all right.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 21:13
Call it the life of Brian effect. Right. So, um, yeah, I'm, you know, everybody's different.
John Milham (Host) · 21:18
I'm not. That's a great— those guys are great.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 21:23
But it's interesting, like, driven to ask, based on your work, which, you know, to describe to the listeners is about, you know, in some ways, like, in particular, the molasses, right, which is a sort of cryptic kind of, you know, way of describing them. But you describe helping, you know, taking photos of veterans and depicting veterans trying to get through the consequences of their service. Right, the impact it's had on them both emotionally and physically. In many ways, that's done. I'm looking at that going, that's the first time I've understood it from that kind of visual sense, right? You've given me a real chance to understand the circumstances of the veteran, you know, post-service. And I'm thinking the art world are missing an opportunity, like, to offer those pathways to some form of healing or sort of instead of being judgmental, they could actually be of service to the people who come out of military service.
John Milham (Host) · 22:24
Well, there's a sense amongst some people within the arts community that veterans deserve the pain that they get. And I've experienced people telling me that. Well, you signed up, you did those things, you went there, you deserve this. This is the price you pay. And you're sort of like, when you hear that from someone, you're like, it's like a blow. You're like, you really believe that? And it's okay when it's an abstract idea. And I guess like Voices of Veterans, for those, for the listeners who are hearing us talk about this, it's a series of artworks that I created where I photographed veterans who are living with PTSD as a result of their service. And letting them interact with molasses in order to create a metaphor for PTSD that they can interact with. But it's, but it's actually more than that. The process of embodying the experience of PTSD for the first time, it allows the veterans involved to be able to get out of their head and get into their body, which is where we carry those traumas. Yeah, PTSD is like this, this manifestation of these experiences that we're sort of difficult processing for a whole variety of reasons. And shame is probably first and foremost, like, shame that I should have done more, I should have been stronger, I should have, should have, should have, should have. And so we, we have these individuals that are struggling with that. And we illustrate that struggle by having them interact. We imbue molasses with this, with the embodiment of PTSD, and then they interact with that. And I remember like the first time sort of watching these people as they touched the molasses and there's like, oh man, like, this is it. This is actually what PTSD feels like. Wow. And then they can interact with it and share that shit. Like, show me, show me today. What does it feel like to be you living with this condition? And they get to show that. And I get to, as an artist, get to sort of record and be with them through that moment. And that— and the process of doing that, there's a healing component to this or therapeutic component to this in that way. We're now externalizing PTSD. Here it is. It's external to me. It's not in me. Here it is. This this molasses, we're placing that darkness into this substance and now I'm going to wash it away. And so we photograph that process as well, that we photograph the approach to the molasses, the engagement with it, the descent into the darkness, and then the cleansing from it. And each of the participants have sort of come away with like, oh man, I feel reborn. Like I just feel totally sort of Like, here I am, I'm cleansed and glowing, and I can see PTSD at my feet in this puddle.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 25:31
Wow.
John Milham (Host) · 25:31
And to me, I'm like, why wouldn't we want to humanize this experience? This isn't— there's no moral judgment here. I'm just sharing stories. And these individuals, when you listen to their stories, they're not dissimilar to the experiences of everyone else around us. Like people, like the amount of people that I work with that have PTSD from childhood trauma or from traumatic accidents or from their workplace traumas and first responders or wherever, like it, trauma happens all like from a variety of sources. And I think the least we can do is have some compassion for the individuals that are going through it. And so all I'm trying to do is create a series of artworks that help bridge that understanding. Like, come and see and sit in this space and try to leave without a little bit more empathy for these humans. And the art world, again, I'm having mixed results. I'm having some curators who have come along to the shows and they're like, Mike, I love what you're doing., but then I'll have like, "This isn't art," and refuse to cover the show. I was like, I really just scratched my head at that. I'm like, "What do you mean it's not?" It was almost like the ultimate slur to an exhibition was to just go completely because of the context, because it was a veteran context, we're going to completely dismiss that. You are not even art. Yeah, I'm still trying to fathom the arguments that where that comes from. But thankfully, she was not the norm now. More and more I'm getting people that are sort of looking at that and more and more I'm seeing people who are not veterans looking at those works and seeing themselves in them. Yeah. Seeing and recognizing the pain that these individuals are carrying. And when you read the stories, what I hope to illustrate was that these traumas are varied and everything from what you would say is your typical viewing of what PTSD is in a special forces soldier at that, in combat, people die and they survive. And now they're living with the memory of that trauma and the guilt associated with that.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 28:15
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 28:15
And that's what the typical is. And as terrible that is, but what we see is that people are living and struggling with experiences that when they were first confronted with the symptoms that their body was eliciting, they were like, well, I can't have PTSD because I'm not that person, because I didn't suffer enough. And, and so they actually felt shame from not being strong enough to be able to keep going and keep working and keep putting up with it, because their traumas were from moral injuries or from vicarious trauma. Or from sexual assault or violent assault and bullying, workplace harassment. They've all wrestled with the diagnosis of PTSD. They felt like somehow because they had PTSD, they were weaker because they got it from this, this, this little thing, as they said, like this padre who for years was the notification padre. And so his job was when someone was killed in an accident or in service overseas, he was the guy that would front the home to tell the family the news and then sit with them with that moment of grief. What a horrendous burden to carry.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 29:37
My goodness.
John Milham (Host) · 29:39
And so looking at that as an outsider, I've got nothing but compassion for that, that man, that what he did was so difficult and, but meant so much to the family. Not at the time, at the time it's horrific, but later on, like someone needed to do that and to do that in the most compassionate way possible and to sit with those people while they, their family were notified. So then they could bring family around to support them. And that was his responsibility and he didn't shirk from that. And to say that that somehow the impact of that is less than the impact of someone else's experience. Like, how dare you? Yeah.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 30:25
And of course, understanding it, it's such an interesting, you know, in many ways it's only now becoming an, you know, an understood consequence of all sorts of things as you so well had wonderfully described. And part of that is maybe, you know, that people don't want to talk about trauma once it's either survived or observed, right? They want to get away from it. You personally have a lived experience of what, of what you're, of PTSD and the consequences of that. And yet you've walked towards that, you know, and sharing your experience to work with others to have them healing, you know, or recovery potential. How did you choose that as a path from your lived experience?
John Milham (Host) · 31:17
A couple things at play there, like service and service, being service orientated has always been an important thing for me. And so that's been a driver. And that was sort of instilled in me as a child, grew out of a religious upbringing where service was very important, moved into Defence where service is all-encompassing. Then when I was wrestling with even the idea of being diagnosed with PTSD, because I was like these other people that I worked with, in my head I was like, all right, to have PTSD, you must be blown up, you must have lost a limb, you must have lost friends, you must have— must like— like the list of things that you needed to have happen. To you before you could go, you have PTSD, was long. And so when the psychiatrist first, and then also another specialist, both said, Mike, I think you've got PTSD. I was like, kidding me, aren't ya? Like, I've never been blown up. Like, I've only, like, I haven't done enough. But then I ended up in hospital. They hospitalized me for assessment in a psychiatric institution. It's a hit to the ego, to say the least, because there's a sense of shame and weakness. Like, I've had torn ACLs and ruptured ligaments and things like that in the knees, and I've never felt shame about those injuries. Like, you're disappointed that you hurt and want to get on with it, all that sort of stuff, but you understand that you need to go to the doctor and go to the physio and see the surgeon and you do the things and you work and you recover. But there's something about mental illnesses where there's nothing. Like even the way that psychologists and psychiatrists, their code of conduct prevents them from being able to acknowledge that in public. Their response if they see you in a public place is to pretend that they don't know you. Because of the shame associated with it. So there's a lot of problems that I see with the institution around mental health that I see as exacerbating the shame and the problems. So anyway, I end up in hospital, but 72 hours in, for the first 72 hours, I'm like, I'm the only sane person in here, which is pretty much what everyone else is thinking. Everyone else is crazy except for me. But then you're undergoing these assessments and these conversations and these group things, and you're filling out these forms and you're ticking boxes and like, do you feel this? Do you have that? Do you have these nightmares? Are you recurring? And flashbacks and this. And I'm like, oh shit, I'm ticking an awful lot of these. And I'm marking like at the extreme end of these things more often than not. And so 72 hours in, I was like, oh shit, I've got PTSD. The shock that came was quite profound. And I'm like, what do I do with that information? And I realized that the reason why I had fought that diagnosis for so long, like, because I'd had symptoms for years and I had fought the diagnosis for a long time, was because of my understanding of what PTSD was. And so I was like, maybe I could help one person seek help. If I share a little bit about my story, so I'm in hospital and I'm a mess. Like I'm, like I'm in the thick of symptoms. My memory's pretty cactus. My, yeah, my cognitive abilities were completely impaired. Pain levels through the roof, constant nightmares, flashbacks, and all sorts of stuff going on. And I'm like, okay, well, put your money where your mouth is, Mike. Are you an artist or not? Are you? And being an artist, if you're going to be a good artist, you need to be bloody vulnerable, don't you? You need to actually be real. No one wants to see pretty pictures. If you want to connect with people, you've got to be real. And I was like, I want to be an artist. I want to connect with people. I want to tell real stories and I want to help. And so I sat in front of my camera and I recorded, I think, a 10-minute video and posted it on Instagram. Facebook and said, I'm in hospital, I'm in a psychiatric institution. This is my day. This is what's happening. And it was probably the most terrifying thing I'd done in a very long time to do that. But then the response from it was really wonderful, heartfelt, and sort of considerate. And that was nice, but actually the The thing that made me keep going was I had a message from someone. They basically said, I know you and you are a good guy and you're a tough guy, but you went and got help.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 36:12
Mm-hmm.
John Milham (Host) · 36:13
So I can go get help and I'm going to. Thank you for giving me permission. Wow. It happened on that first post and my inbox, actually, I had a dozen different messages from different people, similar sort of stories. And some of them were asking for like, who do I talk to? How do I start? Where do I go? And so I'd help them. And I was like, once I'd done that and I realized that there were people out there in need, I just kept going. And so I just, all through my treatment for about 12 months, I would post things about my treatment. Little, just little stories every week. So like, this is what's going on. This is what you need to do. And things that I learned and observed, I'd post and share. And then in the background of it, I started doing these Molasses shoots and they were not, again, I just did them because I thought it'd be an interesting art project to do. But then it turned into, I had enough of them that suddenly I was like, I can't just, I can't leave these images sitting on my computer. I've got to do something with them. There's a story here that's really powerful and sharing it may help people who need help. And hindsight has shown me that it's helped a lot of people. Like these volunteers that came in and were part of the shoot, their stories and their images have saved lives. And so I'm enormously grateful for the individuals that were vulnerable enough to share their story, to be in front of the camera and to do that. Like these people, they're bloody amazing what they've done. But the impact it's had on the lives of individuals that have seen it and been involved with it and family members and like family members for the first time being able to look at the works and go, this is what my husband was going through. Or I saw one father, he brought his son in, his 14-year-old son, and he used the works to sort of help describe his own experience. He had kept his PTSD diagnosis a secret from his wife for 15 years. Fuck. Um, and then he, he, he messaged me and he said, Mike, I, I told my wife for the first time that I've got PTSD. And I'm trying to repair that relationship and be open and vulnerable again. It was a bit of a roller coaster. It just seemed to be the next right thing to do. None of it was like, I didn't— my 12-month plan is to do this and help people. No, I just was like, this was the right thing to do at the time, so I did it. And then the next right thing would come along and then like, right, I need an exhibition. Okay, What do I need to do? I need to raise money. I need to print works. I need to build a catalog. I had a stack of people sort of lean in and help me out through that process. My partner, Tracy, has been in the thick of it behind the scenes, making sure that everything keeps running, the exhibition gets up and catalogs are correct and artworks arrive on time and All that.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 39:30
And of course, you know, you're in the meantime, you're dealing with what is a, you know, a life-changing experience, you know, recognizing and responding to the PTSD in yourself.
John Milham (Host) · 39:44
Right.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 39:44
So has this process been not just about service, but about recovery?
John Milham (Host) · 39:51
I never, I didn't do it intentionally for my therapeutic benefit, but there is therapeutic benefit in doing it. I, I lost everything as far as my identities when I was medically discharged from Army. Like one day I'm in a uniform that I was very proud to serve in, and next day I'm, I'm Mr. Mike Armstrong again. And, and I have a certificate from signed on behalf of, for the Chief of Army. Like, thank you for your service, goodbye, your DBA's problem now. And so I, so like, that's really unsettling. But then to be able to shift focus, and this is why I, like, I shifted focus into like, well, I need to do something, otherwise who am I? And I've always done art, well, I'll keep doing that. And I've always done martial arts, well, I'll keep doing that. And so I just threw my energy into those. Those things to be able to sort of provide meaning. And, but my experience with PTSD and my experience in service have shaped my, and even my, my experience with going through treatment has shaped my practices in both of those fields. And so the, both the martial arts and the art are very mindfulness-based. It's all about sort of getting out of the head and into the body. It's all about sort of trying to find calm in a storm. It's all about that yin yang we spoke about, like the warrior poet. It's all wrapped into these, the way I teach and what I teach in the clubs or the clubs that I've built around these things and the people that I support. They sort of see that vision and they're like, I mean, if you are in your 40s or 50s and you're coming to do a martial art, you're not doing it because you want to be a world champion. Your, your reasoning has changed. And so I sort of lent into that and go, well, sometimes people need an outlet. Some people need to move their body and, but, and to feel that the deep personal connections that you get with training with them, with a training partner. And all those things are really powerful.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 42:00
Absolutely. I, I remember, you know, when you, we first discussed and the idea, I, It was revelatory that you were, you know, that you are taking both those kind of physical martial, you know, process and then also this creative emotional sort of process, but both have a commonality in vulnerability. How do you think that, that, you know, like you're in both camps, how does that work for you?
John Milham (Host) · 42:28
Well, I think vulnerability is if you want to connect in a community, Vulnerability is a really powerful way to build that connection. Do you want to connect with another human? And so I saw that with the art that I'd been working on for many years. I would have individuals who were living with— for years and years, I've had people reach out to me and go, hey, Mike, I'd like to come and pose for you. I'd like to model. So you could do some drawings. And what they were wrestling with is a relationship with their own body. And they saw that the act of being nude for an artist would somehow empower them to heal that broken relationship that they had with their body. But at the heart of it is this vulnerability. Like those models that have come in and shared that space with me and shared that time and the conversation we've had, are some of the most treasured moments I've had in the studio. And it happens because there is a vulnerability. I'm vulnerable as an artist. Like, I'm putting my heart and soul on the wall every time I create. And then I have this model who is putting, for them, their most vulnerable aspect, which is their physical form, out on display for me to be able to sort of work off and there's this combination of these two humans that then germinate this new thing, this new artwork that didn't exist before that. And so that's a beautiful creation that comes from a moment of shared vulnerability. And so the bond that you have with those individuals is pretty strong. And so I recognize that, that there are ways that if you sit in spaces that are vulnerable, with people, you will have deep connection with those individuals. And then when you look at martial arts and Brazilian jiu-jitsu in particular, you have to do it with a training partner. You can't do it by yourself. You're doing it with a training partner. And 10 seconds into an interaction with a person, you know a lot about that person's character straight up, the way they will move and care for you in that interaction means a lot. And so what I was saying is that, well, this is vulnerability. Here again, I'm your training partner and I'm being vulnerable and asking you to look after me in this moment. And you're being vulnerable, asking me to look after you in this moment. And how we respond to that responsibility says a lot about it. And so people will open up, like first time they've been on a mat and they're rolling, and they will open up about things they've never spoken about before with anyone. And it's because there's this shared sense of, oh, I trust you, you're a good person. You're like, well, how do you know I'm a good person? You said, well, because I trusted you to not hurt me when you could. You had— I know you have the capacity to hurt me a lot. And you didn't. You looked after me. And so that says something about the character of that individual. And so I think that BJJ, when I— when the groups of people that I, that I work with, they form very strong bonds because they're built on trust, and they're seeing that trust reciprocated every day when they're interacting on the mat.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 46:00
Well, I, I love that idea that getting into the body through two forms completely at ends, right? When you think of it, but actually take you to the same place.
John Milham (Host) · 46:15
Same place. So I'd say even further. So our studio's called Mandala Studio and there's three practices that exist within Mandala Studio. And mandala means place of community and growth is what a mandala is. And there's Rogue BJJ, which is the martial arts side. And there's Flow and Food, which is my partner Tracy's side of the equation. And she's working with people to connect with their bodies through yoga and Ayurvedic food practices. And then we have the arts and they're actually all the same. They actually, they have all have more in common than not. It's just that they're different modalities. I think that if you were smart enough and talented enough, you could figure out how to build a mindfulness practice out of just about anything and how to build community and how to build trust and shared vulnerability and all that sort of stuff. There's lots of ways that you can do it. It just so happens that yoga, art, and martial arts are the modalities that my partner and I love. And so that's what we lean into. But at the heart of what we do, it's about wellbeing. Everything's about wellbeing. And so that drives all our decision-making with what we teach and how we teach and why we teach.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 47:35
It's interesting you talk about wellbeing for others. And of course, your journey, your personal journey is about coming to terms with who you are now as someone who has been in service and martial service. All his life, you know, that he was armed forces and so on. You know, how does that reconcile with the new Mike? You know, like the person who is now at the other end and through all of these learnings and growth, are you still a warrior?
John Milham (Host) · 48:05
I feel like I'm, I'm now a balanced, I'm in a balanced space. So I think capacity for violence is a really interesting idea. That if you want to be able to protect the ones you love, then having a capacity to be able to do violence is something that you need to be able to call upon. And so that capacity still exists, but what I now have is a far greater compassion and softness for my fellow man. So I think that when I was in the thick of my most focused, most driven martial state, I was intense and I was in everyone's a threat, potential threat at any moment, and I'm ready to deal with that threat in the most efficient manner possible because that's the sort of training that I was delivering and involved in and the environments that I was sort of working in. And so it made sense for that, but I found that that feeds into hypervigilance. Like, like, and the hypervigilance is just one of the, one of the many symptoms that you have in PTSD. And so encouraging hypervigilance in myself through training practices just didn't make sense anymore. I was like, well, this is obviously not doing my nervous system any good. Um, and I'm hypervigilant enough as it is. I'm jumpy enough as it is. So, let's like tone down some of that training. So, I think the type of training that I'm involved in on a day-to-day basis is very different to what I used to train. Like, I was very focused on combatives. Like, it was all about lethality. Whereas now, everything that I teach is all about control and being able to have the capacity for violence. But the control to be able to understand when it's appropriate and when it's not. And more often it's not. And so that's, that's the sort of the balancing act that I feel like I have now. Because I've had symptoms of PTSD for well over a decade, and I think they were exacerbated by the type of conduct that I was involved in, like that type of combative environment. Didn't do me any favors.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 50:28
Do you recover from PTSD? Is there a day when you wake up and it's not around, or is that something that becomes integrated in some way?
John Milham (Host) · 50:37
As far as I'm aware, um, there is no cure unless you say you've, you've had a traumatic childhood. The scars or the echoes from those experiences will stay with you forever. Like, they, they have helped shape you to be who you are. Your strong reactions to those things, the over-the-top reactions that you have to them because of those, the beliefs that you have associated with those experiences, they're what you can modify over time. And so the fact that I've been exposed to traumatic experiences would never change. But my hope is that continued work will mean that my everyday well-being wellbeing continues to improve. So my wellbeing is pretty bloody good because I'm walking in sunshine and I'm hanging out with my dog Squish and my partner Tracy and my kids and I'm healthy communities and I'm eating well and I'm doing all these things. And so I've got a lot of positive things going on in my life. And if I didn't have those, it'd be very easy to slip back into let the voices or the inertia of PTSD take over and drag you down. And so this is why I'm very encouraging to individuals, like, get out of your house, get community, don't be alone, get purpose and meaning in your life. Like, that's fundamental to sort of recovery. And recovery is about, like, how do you recover a life that's worth living? That's recovery. I think the idea that you'll never have a nightmare again, or that you'll never feel pain again, or that you'll never have a, a, an overly sensitive startle response again, those may never go away. But if you have all these other positive things going on in your life, then you'll be able to withstand those bad moments when they happen. And you'll have enough things going on to help pull you out of the funks when they do happen. Yeah, it's when you don't have that, when you are alone, when you're isolated, when you have nothing but bad, that then I'm really worried for those people.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 52:48
And speaking of being worried, you know, like the, when people are alone, you, you've made, uh, you know, both your wellbeing true for you, but also a mission for others, right? To almost take, you know, take what, what do you hope for the population of people who are on a PTSD journey or on a trauma journey? What do you hope on a macro level, right, happens for them? What can you do?
John Milham (Host) · 53:11
What others do? I think seeing themselves as PTSD is a terrible, terrible idea. You are not PTSD. You are not those experiences. You are not that one event. You are a million other things. And but you happen to have some terrible things happen to you, but that does not define you. That is not the definition of you. I dislike veterans when I meet a veteran and they're like, they don't say it like this, but this is essentially the gist of what you're getting, that I am PTSD and this is me and it's terrible and that's the way it is. And I sort of feel like, you're not PTSD. Like, I think I'm even skeptical of the, the moniker veteran. I'm, I'm definitely skeptical of the, of male redhead, 6-foot-3. Like, sure, I happen to tick those boxes, but that's not who I am. Like, I'm much more than just that little aspect of me. I am much more than PTSD. I am much more than veteran. I'm much more than artist. I'm not saying forget about it, move on, get over it. What I am saying is be very clear about that you are more than just that. And that thinking, getting out of that mindset is a really powerful way towards improving wellbeing. You have an option. You have a bloody good opportunity to have a great life. You just need to start taking incremental steps to sort of move towards that. And that's why, that's the macro.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 54:53
That's a beautiful vision, mate, and great advice. And I, it also leads me to think, ask you the question, what is, what are you moving towards that's going to be great about your life?
John Milham (Host) · 55:05
Oh, the beach eventually. I'm trying to, like, I, one of my failings is, is that I tend to sort of overcommit. And say yes to a lot of things. And I constantly throw myself out of balance in like, I want to help everyone everywhere all the time. That's not good for me long term. So continuing to find balance. And so what I'm trying to do is build communities that actually will exist whether or not I'm there. And so that's my goal is to the communities that I'm building in Canberra will eventually I will not— I'll be a memory in those communities, but those communities will continue to exist. That's my goal for that. And then my goal is to sort of continue to make more art and continue to share stories. And I share a wide range of stories, like my sculpture exhibition at the moment is about this fabulous collection of women that have sort of come into my life over the last for 5 years with these wonderful experiences. And to me, it challenged my idea as a man, how do we define a woman? And what this show does is sort of hopefully like what the Molasses Shoots and Voices of Veterans did, it broadened the understanding of what PTSD is. I'm hoping that this broadens the experience and the acceptance about all these different experiences from women and that they're, they're so different and that, but they, what they have in common is like this fear that they're somehow not meeting up to the standard of what woman is. And each of them are saying that slightly different ways. But this is what I heard. Like I was working with one and then I hear it and then I'm working with, I'm like, hang on a second. Like you're both saying the same thing. That you somehow feel like you are not worthy, that you feel shame about who you are. Okay. And so I love that. I love that. My art is about actually asking questions rather than about giving answers. And so I just want to continue making art that fuels my curiosity.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 57:25
A wonderful idea. You know, I recall the quote, I'm not sure who by, but that the quality of our lives are determined by the quality of the questions we ask.
John Milham (Host) · 57:35
Fabulous.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 57:36
Yeah. And I feel like you're asking amazing questions, mate. Awesome stuff. I just acknowledge all that work, give you my appreciation for you sharing it today and my admiration for the work you've done. Thanks, mate. I look forward to chatting again, maybe chapter 2 sometime in the future.
John Milham (Host) · 57:53
Oh, that'd be fabulous, mate.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 57:55
Fantastic stuff.
John Milham (Host) · 57:56
Stuff.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 57:56
Thank you, Mike.
John Milham (Host) · 57:58
Thanks, John. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Katsugi Heroes. Please like and share the show to your friends so we can get this out to even more people. If you have a story you'd like to share with us, please reach out using the contact details below and join us next week for our next Heroes story. Until Until then, keep being you, and remember that we are all heroes in our own unique way.
Mike Armstrong (Guest) · 58:31
Only when it's broken, only when it's broken, when it hits you in the middle of the night and the truth burns so bright.
John Milham (Host) · 58:48
Only when it's broken. Only when it's broken. Take pride in those cries. It's only for tonight, and then you rise. Only when you're broken. Only when you're broken. Only when you're broken.
You don't have to be in crisis to call.
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