Mindi Kessler
The gold beneath the violence
Mindi rebuilt her life after a total health collapse forced her to process decades of childhood trauma through her body, not just her mind.
Hear this story
Kintsugi Studio
Mindi Kessler
Mindi rebuilt her life after a total health collapse forced her to process decades of childhood trauma through her body, not just her mind.
Hear this story
Mindi grew up in a small Kansas town in a household that looked normal from the outside but was volatile and unsafe. Her parents were angry and deeply traumatised themselves, repeating patterns from their own childhoods. She felt scared every day, experienced physical and sexual abuse, and learned early that perfectionism and achievement were survival tools. Teachers became her refuge. She sang ABBA into her stereo, imagining a music producer would rescue her. What kept her going was not just hope, but the refusal to fully close her heart, even when everything inside her wanted to.
As an adult, her body kept score. For 12 years, Mindi experienced chronic pain, fatigue, migraines, and food sensitivities that no doctor could diagnose or fix. She was failing at work, her relationships were strained, and she was barely holding on. The turning point came when she hit total collapse. A shift in mindset, focusing on what she wanted instead of what was wrong, led her to a healer who could finally help. She discovered that her body held the trauma her mind had buried, and that healing meant reconnecting with physical sensation, not just talking through her past.
Today, Mindi is a trauma therapist and coach who works with others to process what their bodies carry. She has two daughters she adores, work that fulfils her, friendships that nourish her, and a relationship with her husband built on real connection. The small things other people took for granted, dinners with friends, yoga, laughter, taste delicious to her now because she longed for them for so long. She knows the worst is behind her, and she's living proof that it is possible to come through.
“trauma gets wired into basically the fabric of our whole being, which is why there's really no area left untouched when someone experiences childhood trauma”
“I felt totally alone growing up in my family. And to be honest, I felt scared every day of my life.”
“I had a bottomless pit of anger. It really took an extraordinary, extraordinary amount of work for me to release anger.”
The hero, today
When a child is harmed in their family, what matters most is feeling seen, heard, and respected by someone who can guide them through the darkness. Childhood trauma gets wired into the fabric of a person's whole being, showing up not just as mental health struggles but across every area of adult life: relationships, work, health, and how we parent. Anger held in the body after trauma is a signal that something unfinished is trying to come to completion; it needs to be processed, not just managed. The body holds memories and wisdom that the conscious mind does not have access to, and reconnecting with physical sensation is how we reach what needs healing. What she believed about her health, about what was possible, and about whether she deserved things to change made the difference between staying sick and finding someone who could help.
Yes. Mindi Kessler is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
When a child is harmed in their family, what matters most is feeling seen, heard, and respected by someone who can guide them through the darkness.
Childhood trauma gets wired into the fabric of a person's whole being, showing up not just as mental health struggles but across every area of adult life: relationships, work, health, and how we parent.
Anger held in the body after trauma is a signal that something unfinished is trying to come to completion; it needs to be processed, not just managed.
The body holds memories and wisdom that the conscious mind does not have access to, and reconnecting with physical sensation is how we reach what needs healing.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 00:00
I feel like I'm at this scene in a movie, you know, where there's this sort of arc where there's, you know, the person goes through something horrible and then they're depressed and then they start getting their momentum. You know, they go out to dinner with friends and they're going to yoga and establishing new things. And I keep, you know, laughing, feeling like I'm in that part of my life arc where the worst is behind me. And now I'm really enjoying the kinds of normal things that a lot of people get to enjoy just from the get-go that I'm really now getting to experience. And I will tell you that I am certain I enjoy those kinds of things far more than most people because I longed for the things I'm experiencing in my life now for so long. And now that I'm living it, it's delicious.
John Milham (Host) · 00:44
Welcome back to Kintsugi Heroes, helping people tell the stories they need to share so you can find the stories that you need to hear. Before we begin, a gentle note.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 01:08
Kintsugi is the art of repairing what is broken with gold, and that is the spirit of these stories. They touch on grief, trauma, illness, disability, addiction, and loss. Be gentle with yourself. Pause anytime. Support is on screen and in the show notes and description.
John Milham (Host) · 01:38
Ladies and gentlemen, listeners of the Kintsugi Hero Podcast, uh, welcome to another story that matters. And today, look, I am guilty of usually saying how excited I am at this point to talk to one of our guests, but I can't argue with this one. I'm very excited to welcome Mindy Kessler. Welcome to Katsugi Heroes, Mindy.
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This conversation includes singing abba in a small kansas town, the difference between kids who get through and kids who carry it, a volatile home with two traumatised parents, teacher's pet and perfectionism as survival, why her parents could not show up and the body holds what the mind forgets.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 02:09
Thank you, John. I look forward to our conversation.
John Milham (Host) · 02:12
It's nice. Uh, you just, um, in case anyone didn't pick it up by accent, uh, you are currently the, uh, residing in the US.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 02:21
Yes.
John Milham (Host) · 02:22
And grew up in a, um, uh, you know, comfortably ensconced in a, uh, in a sort of typical US, um, state and town. Uh, in this wonderful global age of connection, So Mindy, you are a coach. You've written books, which is so exciting, and, and, um, still a bit of a mystery to me how anyone manages to get through that, right? So congratulations.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 02:51
Thank you.
John Milham (Host) · 02:53
Uh, you are a psychotherapist. You work with trauma and, um, you have some unique, uh, integrated modalities for that. So you bring a lot of kind of different understandings together, um, you know, blending, you know, classic psychology, uh, somatic work, energy healing, interchild integration and sort of embodied transformation. If we throw all that sort of clever language around, underneath that, what's the core of healing for you?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 03:30
I feel like I have a really good ability to see at the heart of someone's pain and suffering. And for anyone to grow, change, and heal, someone has to feel really seen, heard, and respected because when wounding happens in childhood, those are essentially the things that are missing— being seen, heard, understood. In addition to that, people can experience all kinds of atrocities through physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, other kinds of really horrible experiences. And I think first and foremost, for someone who's been through those things myself. I have a good ability to understand what it's like to really suffer and what it's like to overcome suffering. And so while I do have a lot of training and skills, and I've absorbed so much wisdom from many people that I've worked with, truly before any of that matters, someone has to feel like they're really seen and that the person working with them has the ability to guide them through their darkness.
John Milham (Host) · 04:31
So often you see, you know, people advertising their capacity to heal someone or help someone heal by, in a niche area. Is that really healing? I'll heal your mum thing, but, uh, you know, we won't worry about your sort of self-worth later.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 04:51
I think everything is really intertwined and, you know, no matter what someone brings to me, whether it is a physical condition or difficulty in their relationship with their mom or their partner or parenting, um, everything is sort of, um, I think of it like a tangled ball of yarn in terms of all the things that have led up to that moment. And so whatever caused our suffering to begin with in childhood can lead to manifestation in any area of life. And for the most part in multiple areas of life. And so really when we start looking at what the person is suffering with, whether it is in a relationship or with their health or, or financial success or business, it's really underneath that the patterning that began in childhood that is getting replicated in their adult life is what we really have to uncover. What's happening now that's very similar to what happened when they were wounded. And that's That's the target of intervention really is to find those patterns, those cycles and help them unwind, dismantle, discard, and ultimately return back to who they really are, their true authentic self.
John Milham (Host) · 06:13
You, you talk of the, the, you know, the origin of the areas of that they feel, uh, the need for healing. Um, and yeah, when you look at lived experience, so your own journey, how does that end up sort of, you know, manifesting as an adult?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 06:42
I'm really glad you asked that question because so many people don't recognize that all the ways that they're suffering in their adult life has to do with what they experienced growing up. And a lot of people now are familiar with the term complex post-traumatic stress disorder, which I think is great. I personally prefer the term developmental trauma because I feel like it's a bit more descriptive about why people suffer so much in their adult life. And so when we experience adversity in childhood with our attachment figures and we don't feel safe, And we are harmed or neglected while we are developing as children, our understanding of ourselves, of other people, of the world. Um, while motor movements are getting— patterns are getting established, um, personality, while we're developing so rapidly as children and experiencing trauma at the same time, trauma gets wired into basically the fabric of our whole being. Which is why there's really no area left untouched when someone experiences childhood trauma over a period of time with people they are meant to be protected by and cared for. And so that's why, um, there's so much adversity in our adult lives after childhood trauma, because it affects our self-esteem. It affects what we expect from other people. It affects how we relate to people. We have the expectation of being rejected and hurt again, but we also want people to make up for what our parents parents didn't get right. And a lot of times when I'm working with people who are parents, they want to be loving parents, but the pendulum swings too far in the other direction. And so instead of being abusive, they're very permissive. And so it really just shapes all of our interactions with everyone we encounter when we have unhealed significant developmental trauma from childhood.
John Milham (Host) · 08:38
You know, the human condition is pretty tough at times, right? We're all faced with sort of some form of adversity. Adversity. And a lot of kids encounter tough times, right? They can count personal setbacks. They're caught up in the struggles and dangers and, you know, disasters of life. Why does one kid get through okay? What do you think makes the difference between one kid getting through and doing all right and another kid carrying that trauma and having a real struggle with it later?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 09:19
I think there are a lot of factors that can explain that. One is, um, did that child have at least one resiliency attachment person in their life? Maybe it wasn't their parents, but they had an aunt or a grandparent or a teacher or a coach, someone who really gave them a different reflection of themselves. If they gave some information back to the child that counters the beliefs that they developed in their family, where they felt like, I am, I do matter, I am lovable, it's not my fault, then that can really help give children who grew up where they didn't feel safe another experience to kind of counterbalance. It does, doesn't have the same weight as growing up in a family where you're really harmed. Um, and so I think that's one thing I notice a lot in my clients who are really high achieving is that they often had someone, you know, in their lives. I think the other, some other things are really intangible. It's hard to put your finger on, but I would say, I know, um, in my case and other clients that I've worked with, somehow as a child, they didn't close their hearts.
John Milham (Host) · 10:32
Yeah.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 10:33
That, you know, it's natural when someone feels threatened and scared to, out of self-protection, to close their heart. And I think we see a lot of that in society in terms of, um, people who are really unconscious hurting other people, repeating patterns and not caring or recognizing it. And so there's something about, um, a child who has some inner capacity to not to totally close down and to hold out for hope, you know, of better, better days. And I, um, posted a social media video the other day that people commented on a lot. And I talked about how, as a child, I would listen to ABBA music.
John Milham (Host) · 11:16
It's amazing how much therapy you've had since then. Right. So, cause you don't look like an ABBA.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 11:23
Still love ABBA. I would in my, and I lived in a very small town in Kansas. But in my living room, we had a stereo and I would put in the 8-track tape of ABBA and I would sing really loud because I had this fantasy that some music producer was going to drive by my house and be like, stop the car.
John Milham (Host) · 11:41
Yeah, we need to find that voice.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 11:44
And a lot of other people commented similar fantasies for different kinds of rescuing. And that was a coping strategy that gave me hope that someday someone might pluck me out of that environment, which didn't happen. But there was something about that particular coping skill that was delusional at the time. I can't sing at all, but it gave me some, some ability to kind of hang in there thinking that that could happen.
John Milham (Host) · 12:14
I always, I often think, um, uh, you know, when we think about what anchors worked to hold us into a positive space. Some form of emotional resilience or emotional patience, waiting for that rescue is hope. And hope is a fundamental healing kind of space. I think singing ABBA might in fact be about belonging to a very special tribe, I think. Your belonging is a part of that.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 12:51
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 12:52
Um, so, you know, the need for you to sing ABBA, was that your, uh, because your family, you know, was a, was a challenging space or, you know, like you, you had some, um, uh, you know, sort of dysregulation in, in life.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 13:09
I felt, um, totally alone, um, growing up in my family and To be honest, I felt scared every day of my life. I had no sense of safety in my family. There was a lot of, um, really serious abuse that went on. And, um, so I'm not sure precisely how that led to me wanting to be rescued by my singing voice, but I probably had other fantasies of rescue too. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 13:39
That was the loudest. Right. You might've had some quieter fantasies of this.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 13:44
Yeah. Yeah. Yes.
John Milham (Host) · 13:47
How special, uh, you know, being a young, young, a very young person in a, you know, in a seemingly normal home, right? You know, people walking past wouldn't have differentiated it from any other family in the neighborhood.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 14:04
I think that is one of the really complicated factors about growing up in a family that seems happy or seems normal. And I've even had, uh, someone that grew up in my hometown read my book and she said, I'd never, multiple people actually, I never would have guessed that's what your family was like. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 14:25
Why do we value obvious signs, right? You know, a child coming to school with bruises or limps or, you know, casts will attract more attention than a child. Sitting in the corner quietly, you know, hiding under the radar?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 14:44
I think a couple of reasons. I think one is that a lot of people in charge have their own unhealed trauma. And so they freeze when they see children who are vulnerable and being harmed. It activates their own woundingness and they really physiologically can't take action because of their own unresolved trauma. And, you know, just another point is that sadly our most vulnerable people are the children in our world and the older people in our world aren't valued as much. And that is a great travesty because, you know, the people in our world that are most helpless need our mo— the most support. And I think people who do care sometimes just don't know what to do. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 15:35
Can I ask why you were scared?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 15:39
Uh, I, my household was very, very volatile. Um, both of my parents were angry all the time and I was a very sensitive child who I think was very attuned to the problematic dynamics in my family. And that is a common, um, I guess, makeup of someone who becomes a scapegoat of the family. And so being intuitive and sensitive, probably on some levels pointing out the problems that people in my family weren't willing to see or that angered them. And so my parents had their own unhealed trauma and they came together and created a family where they just repeated what they experienced in their own family. And in both our cases, they didn't have consciousness. There was no recognition that what they were doing was harmful, or if they And if they did recognize it, they didn't care enough to do anything about it. And so it was just very, very volatile. I walked on eggshells constantly and experienced physical abuse and sexual abuse inside my home and also abuse outside my home, which is not uncommon for people growing up in that environment. We become more targets for other people who are perpetrators. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 16:51
The energy of vulnerability is, you know, something, uh, uh, people are attuned to when they're, when they're predators. That's so strange. So, um, yeah.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 17:04
Yes, very true.
John Milham (Host) · 17:06
Uh, did your, would like, it's awful to think about a child being in that, um, space and having to find a way to get through, whether it's singing ABBA or hiding or being, you know, it, people exceptional in some types, right? Yeah. What were some of your most effective adaptions at the time?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 17:29
Well, I was known as the teacher's pet in elementary school, which meant that the teachers liked me and kind of gave me preferential treatment. And so I was very good at getting people outside my family to like me. Um, I was very, um, pleasing, accommodating, helpful, nice. And that was probably a huge resiliency factor for me because I had many teachers throughout my, schooling that, um, really did care about me and, um, gave me attention that I wasn't getting at home. And so that was definitely, um, one of my good resiliency factors. I also became really perfectionistic and focused on high achieving. Um, when the only way I really got attention from my parents was when I got attention from the community. So I was. A good track athlete. I did well academically. And so to achieve well was a survival factor for me because I would be less harmed if I was performing well.
John Milham (Host) · 18:31
Yeah.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 18:31
Which turned out to be really helpful for me outside of my family because I went on to get advanced degrees, own my own business, that kind of thing. Um, which I find a lot of high achieving people, um, identified perfectionism in childhood as a protective factor.
John Milham (Host) · 18:49
Yeah, yeah, I like the idea of, you know, some kids are acting out to get away from it and some kids are acting up, right, to get, you know, to, you know, to sort of connect with, you know, if I'm completely flawless, right, there's— they've got nothing to hang on to. But of course that's not the case. So, you know, because they're not here, you know, it's not you, is it? It's them. So what do you think your parents were, were, um, what was behind their inability to really operate as good parents?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 19:22
Yeah, throughout the last few years, as I've done so much, um, introspection and kind of intuitive work on understanding our family dynamics, um, it just became so clear to me that my dad, who grew up with a single mom, um, experienced a lot of terror in his own childhood around that. And I think things happened to him growing up that are not confirmed, but I believe very strongly that he was repeating what he experienced. And, um, his own coping strategy was really to appear to the outside world as though he was such a good person. And I encounter this a lot with other people who have parents who were popular in the community or in the church. I think a lot of, um, people like my dad hide in the church to sort of be perceived as a good Christian person because it makes it harder for other people to imagine that they are capable of doing the things that he was doing in our house. Yeah. And, um, my mom, um, married my dad when she was very young, I think 17 years old. And I think she got married to escape what was going on in her family. And so they were both very young, very traumatized people. And I'm fortunately at a place in my own healing where I do have compassion for the fact that they, um, went through what they did, which caused them to behave, you know, in our family the way that they did. Uh, but it's, it's still painful sometimes to reflect upon the fact, or I think the pain now is less anger as it was for me for many, many years. And still, um, I feel grief about it. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 21:08
This isn't about me, but I feel quite worried about talking about these things, right? But is it better when someone sort of opens it up, or is, you know, how much healing do you have to do to be in that space where someone can ask you a question and you feel, you know, even interested in answering it? Does that Does that require a journey or can it, you know, is it a good thing?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 21:38
Uh, I think, you know, throughout the last many years I was open to talking about it, but I feel better about talking about it from a point of view of having more healing under my belt, um, because I have more clarity and, um, I feel less victimized by what I went through. So I feel like I can talk about it in a way that is. Productive for myself and anyone who might be listening. If you would have talked to me a few years ago, I would have had a different tone, I guess I'll say.
John Milham (Host) · 22:11
Been a bit more sparky about the intrusion.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 22:14
I get it.
John Milham (Host) · 22:16
Yeah. Which brings us to like, there are so many kids in a, you know, we see the stats, right? And some of the stats are atrocious, the number of families that, yeah. And we know that generation who were our parents and grandparents, they had almost that transition into the industrial age where they moved away from the core family. There was a lot of trauma from conflicts and, you know, from external, and then of course changing neighborhoods. The village disappeared, all those old structures that helped them. So they've got— had a few problems themselves, um, and they've really wreaked some havoc on this generation, right? Do you think we're, you know, like, what chance have our kids got? Are we doomed to sort of, you know, do the same thing?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 23:17
I feel super hopeful about today's kids and adults, they are so wise and, um, they don't put up with a lot of bullshit the way that we were conditioned to. And I love their, um, ability to speak their truth, to stand up for other people. And the, I guess the benefit of social media is they're having access to information that helps them to see their story a little bit differently in terms of what's what's okay, what's not okay. So, um, I'm full of hope and I have a, uh, my youngest daughter's getting her master's in social work and she's going to be a therapist too. And she's far beyond in her skill level where I was at her age.
John Milham (Host) · 24:04
So, right. You know, we had been conditioned to, you know, to preserve both the external view and the internal obsolescence to our family. Which made us very useful in terms of being, you know, receiving punishment, receiving trauma, right? Do you think, um, the sort of mental health epidemic we're talking about now is a result of that, you know, perfect storm of compliant kids being available and, and no outside support?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 24:44
I think that formula that you just described really speaks to, you know, the great adversity of it all because kids are really, you know, we totally rely on our parents for survival. And so if we have parents who expect total obedience and compliance and us to present the image that the family is, you know, ideal, then there is all this brainwashing about how to behave. And that we take into our adult life where we, people pleasing is such an epidemic in and of itself because everyone is terrified to speak up for what they want and what they don't want because of that conditioning in childhood that there could be a great punishment to be had if you didn't go along with what you were told to do. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 25:38
With all that was going on that was terrible in your life as a child, what were the things you hoped for? Did you dream? Even despite the suffering?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 25:51
Somehow I did have, um, a dream of really making something of myself and, you know, really having a lot of professional success. I felt like that was the thing I could kind of hang on to was someday, somehow being really successful. And I knew also at a pretty young age that I wanted to be a therapist. And so I feel like a seed was planted in me that I kept my eye on that really kind of pulled me forward too.
John Milham (Host) · 26:29
It's really handy that you dreamed of becoming something that would help you a great deal from what you were getting away from, right? There's a kind of universal link there, isn't there?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 26:41
I heard someone refer to that as me-search instead of research. It's me-search. Right?
John Milham (Host) · 26:45
Yeah, I love that. Right. I'm always, uh, the process of doing some me-search means I leave to shelf development, right? I've got a, you know, a shelf full of me-search sitting there just waiting for me to, you know, completely absorb, right? Somehow it's just comforting just to have it on the shelf.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 27:07
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 27:08
When you, um, uh, when you get through, like, there's so much anger. You can see the anger in the world now from that, from our generation. And obviously that's got to be related to some of those ACEs, those adverse child experiences we're carrying. Anger can be useful, but it's so damaging to the community when it's not controlled. What do we do? How did you put your anger aside?? Cause you, you, you were violated. Your, your sex, your identity was violated. How do you let that go?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 27:51
I think one thing that's important to understand about anger is that it's a natural response to a lack of power and violation. And so when kids are being violated in the many ways that they can be, anger surfaces as a natural response. But because it's not safe to express it, it gets shoved into the body. And then, um, when someone grows up in a family where there is a lot of injustice and powerlessness, there are a lot of suppressed emotions, including anger, grief, confusion, that kind of thing. And the anger is looking for an exit point because the body wants to bring those trauma responses to completion. And so when someone has an episode of road rage, there's anger, like coming to the surface. Because someone feels something's been unjust. And so it's coming to the surface to be released. And so when we see so much anger and rage and abuse and judgment online and that kind of thing, all of those people have so much suppressed anger and rage because it's a reflection of unprocessed trauma.
John Milham (Host) · 29:00
Yeah. Wow.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 29:02
And for me, I felt like I had a bottomless pit of anger. I had a mentor many years ago that she said, Mindy, you have a lot of anger. And I was like, oh, I do. You know, I wasn't even as conscious, you know, it was just sort of how I always felt kind of irritable. And, um, and so it really, um, took an extraordinary, extraordinary amount of work for me to release anger. I did it through different kinds of energy sessions. Um, I did lots of writing letters and burning. I did meditations. I did forgiveness practices. I did tons of inner child healing work. I, um, I left no stone unturned. Yeah. Um, because it doesn't feel good to be angry and resentful and bitter. It's, um, it's understandable that anyone who goes through that kind of trauma feels that way, but it is miserable to hold on to it. And so I was very committed to clearing all of that out. And, um, you know, what's replaced by all of that anger after you process it. Well, underneath that is grief. So there's a lot of grief to process too, but, um, there's just more joy and happiness and inner peace and ability to handle adversity without becoming totally dysregulated and feeling sorry for myself. And so I have a good ability to handle what's going on in the world right now because I've cleared a lot of my own trauma out of my system and the lens that I look through has a lot of hope and optimism and, you know, really believing in people.
John Milham (Host) · 30:39
I love that.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 30:42
It is extraordinarily expensive to heal. Yeah. And I would imagine that over the last many years, we probably have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to help me get to where I am because It really does require working with very skilled people to do the great depth of work that's required for anyone to heal from the kinds of atrocities that I went through and many, many other people go through. And our society is, um, just now even understanding that, uh, abuse is happening on the scale that it is. And you know, what's required in terms of, um, helping someone to recover from what they've been through. So it is definitely something that requires a lot of knowledge, skill, and resources to be able to transcend that kind of trauma.
John Milham (Host) · 31:39
When you say knowledge and skill, you know, one immediately thinks about, you know, standard sort of academic accreditation or, you know, that kind of expert, you know, sort of exam-based experiential sort of learning. But do you think knowledge and skill has been sort of part of your journey as lived experience? Yeah. Yeah. And how does that help?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 32:12
Well, I will say that the people that have helped me get to where I am Um, largely are not people who've gotten academic degrees that I've worked with a lot of healers that, um, have done a great depth of their own healing work. And so they could give to me what I now give to other people. And so the wisdom and knowledge and skill that I developed was really through my own process of recovery. I hear the words of my mentors come out of my mouth all the time when I'm helping other people. That, you know, I really just absorbed what I learned to get myself to this place. And now I've put my own spin on it with my own personality and my own, you know, unique story and experience. But I think that's really important for people on a journey to work with people who really have done a great depth of their own healing, because we can't really help people get to a place beyond the work we've done ourselves.
John Milham (Host) · 33:11
Yeah, wow. Yeah. What about the work you've done by experiencing, you know, like by turning trauma into meaning, right? Your own trauma, meaning in helping others to heal. Is that a part of the process?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 33:30
I find so much joy in what I get to offer now because I see the relief on my clients' faces and I love working with groups of women. I have groups like Soul Circle and Body Solidarity and a manifesting group. And I love bringing people together in a community because one of the things that was truly missing for me on my journey, which I know was part of the design of my life experience, was I really had no one. When I had my health crash, um, about 14 years ago, every person I had contact with in some sort of friendship or relationship just disappeared. And so I was like clawing my way out of such a dark place, um, without someone to bring me dinner, someone to say, can I watch your kids? You know, and that was agonizing, you know, for me. And I, I understand now that was necessary to help shape my ability to hold space for groups of women, because that's what I came here to do, at least one of the things. Um, and so when I get to help others experience things that I really wish that I would have had, or to understand things that it took me a really long time to understand. It is just truly the most fulfilling experience that I could have. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 34:50
I love that idea that, you know, you described your way of coping through childhood and terrible stuff happening by that, you know, seeking, you know, different approaches. If I'm too good, If I, you know, do all the hard, you know, and, um, and perfect work, right? And of course that mask, you know, traveled right through with you. Do you think all your friends were actually friends with your mask and not you? Is that, you know, when they dropped off and disappeared?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 35:19
I think that what happened was, um, that I had to, I had to have an experience where I no longer associated with people that were at my same level of development.
John Milham (Host) · 35:32
Right.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 35:33
Um, because, um, people, some people that I spent time with had the same kind of negativity and complaining and self-pity and complaining about this or that. I was a person who complained a lot. And I know that in order for me to transcend that, I really had to, um, kind of have all the people out of my life. I think it was just divinely, you know, orchestrated that if I was going to really get to the heart of what happened to me and to recover, I couldn't have anything in my life that kept me tethered to the old version of me.
John Milham (Host) · 36:14
Now, you're a somatic healer as well, right? And that's a very trendy thing happening at the moment in the world of therapy.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 36:21
Yes.
John Milham (Host) · 36:22
How important is it to reestablish touch as an aspect of normal life as opposed to sort of representing and, you know, what we hold in our bodies, uh, with pain and suffering.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 36:36
Well, what happens when we experience trauma in childhood is we disconnect from our bodies. We dissociate, disconnect because being present for what we go through when there's great adversity is, would be too much, too overwhelming.
John Milham (Host) · 36:50
Yeah.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 36:50
And so bit by bit, um, when someone experiences a lot of abuse and suffering in childhood, we become more and more disembodied, not present in the body. And in order to have good health, whether it's emotional, physical, mental, spiritual health, we have to be embodied. And the body holds so much wisdom and information that when I'm working with someone, that's one of the first things I do is I wanna know what they're feeling in their body because the body's communicating to us about what they don't know, what they don't remember. It, it holds our, um, the memories that are in our unconscious show up in our bodies. And so by connecting with our physiology, it is a bridge between the conscious mind and the unconscious mind that helps us, um, really get to the heart of things in terms of what really needs addressed for resolution.
John Milham (Host) · 37:49
Unconscious mind often drives stuff we're not even aware of, right? Either negative or positive, right? Um, how do you wake that awareness up?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 38:02
So what I, um, do in my own life and with my clients is I just notice like what triggers us. Um, because whatever we are feeling reactive to is a clue about what our blind spot is, what's going on in our unconscious mind that's coming up for resolution. And so anything that triggered us, triggers us is like a tap on the shoulder saying, Remember this? And then we follow the breadcrumbs, you know, back to, from that reaction, what we notice physiologically in the body holds that implicit memory, um, which helps us get to what's being stored that is really needing to be healed.
John Milham (Host) · 38:40
What was the, um, type of physical therapy you found really useful and how did you react to that?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 38:50
I love bodywork. Um, sort of a generic term I use for all different kinds of physical, um, hands-on work. And I, um, found it really helpful to work with people who did what's called visceral manipulation, working with the organs, um, of the body, um, and the tissues, the fascia of the body. The fascia holds a lot of trauma and memories. Um, I've had a lot of physical therapy. I love massage. I will get massage for the rest of my life as much as I can. Um, I found acupuncture really helpful. Um, and just other kinds of body work with different energy healing components. Um, I've been really lucky to work with really skilled people, um, with regards to the physicality of the body. And I think one primary reason that helps so much beyond just helping to get things put back into place is that my body had to learn how to be safe with physical touch with another person. And so I always felt very cared about. The work was very gentle and that helped to re-pattern my association with physical touch.
John Milham (Host) · 40:00
Uh, it's, uh, you know, like you, I work a lot with men and, um, of course, um, you know, men will embrace some physical activity as a path to you know, getting, breaking through some emotional trauma. I always find it interesting that they're quite prepared to run 100Ks, right? Before, rather than sit down and talk about the same stuff they're trying to run off, right? But you talk about very gentle stuff. Is there, you know, is there a way to get through, you know, to men, jiu-jitsu, which is very possible.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 40:42
Popular. I think that, um, there are lots of things like that can be really helpful as long as there's consciousness associated with it.
John Milham (Host) · 40:49
You know, love the term that, you know, people seem to throw away around more common these days, which wolf are you feeding, right? So, you know, standing, standing hitting a bag can be feeding the wrong wolf, I suppose. So as therapists, we need to be helping them, you know, You know, throw the food to the right wolf, right?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 41:09
So, yes, for one person hitting the punching bag could just generate more anger and rage. And so as in any approach, you know, it's really important that it's the right time and the right modality for the person. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 41:24
I'm constantly amazed by people's, um, ability to not even see their own challenges, their own hurt and suffering and the consequences, right? They're in the middle of a world that doesn't seem to be helping them or they don't fit right in their own life, and yet they wouldn't, you know, they're still not acknowledging why or where that comes from. You know, how do we help people become self-aware enough to know that that stuff, you know, is part of life and they perhaps need to deal with it.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 42:08
Some people will only recognize that once they've had a major personal crisis, like a really serious health issue, the ending of a relationship, getting fired from a job. Most of us humans have to go through some major life event in order to be cracked open, so to speak, to be willing to become conscious and aware. And so I think that's one thing that's important to understand. But I also think that sometimes people, as a coach, as a therapist, we need to be more direct with people, which is something that is a fine art because when you're really direct with someone, it could feel very like they feel it could feel really demeaned., wounded, and other people can be the precise thing they need to hear to wake them up, to motivate them. And so I've found that personally with mentors that I worked with, when they would tell me things that would sting a little bit, it was just the right dose of medicine to get me to sort of break through my resistance. And so now I enjoy bringing a little bit of that to the work that I do too.
John Milham (Host) · 43:23
So Mindy, you don't look that mean, but like clearly there's a bit the steel underneath the lace, right?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 43:30
Um, well, I feel disappointed if I go through a whole week without one client telling me they want to flip me off.
John Milham (Host) · 43:35
So I, I love that KPI, right? It's brilliant. Um, the, it's interesting. Um, you talked earlier about energy healing and your process, and I, you know, I'm jumping on the idea where you shared, uh, we hit rock bottom. You talked about a total collapse, you know, sort of 15 years ago, right? What, what, what happened then? And, um, you know, how did you begin to reconstruct?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 44:07
Well, when I was 18 years old, I started having really horrible pain in my body and, um, it never went away. And as I went to graduate school, got married and had children, I kept getting more and more unwell. Chronic fatigue, other kinds of pain syndromes in my body, migraines, burning in my hands, feet, mouth. I had horrible sleep disorders and my health kept getting worse and worse and worse over time. And I kept going to so many different kinds of medical practitioners, more traditional kinds of doctors, and no one could tell me what was wrong with me. And then I hit this tipping point about 12 years ago where I could not hardly function anymore. I could not go to work one more day. I couldn't, um, I was really sick and I didn't know why. And it was scary. And for me, that was my necessary breakdown. Um, because I had to have thing, one of the things that meant the most to me, my work taken away from me so I could finally get clarity on the spiritual reason that I was suffering so much. And that was really when I finally started to dig deeper into what happened to me growing up and how that affected me and my health and my relationships. And, um, as horrible and miserable and unpleasant as it has been all these years to have so many different physical issues, it really has been the thing that has been most responsible for the amount of growth that I have, because physical pain demands that you listen one way or another.
John Milham (Host) · 45:47
It's that car alarm. You know, please don't ignore this because everybody is going to suffer until you get it taken care of.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 45:56
And the karlam just keeps getting louder and louder and louder until you finally listen.
John Milham (Host) · 46:01
Demanding that you deal with this, um, the catalyst for exploring other non-traditional interventions, was that the case? Yeah.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 46:14
Yeah, I, around this time, um, heard someone on a podcast say, imagine what's happening in your life is happening for you, not to you. Yeah. And that was the first thing I remember hearing that made me feel like I just, um, didn't have the worst luck of anyone that I knew, that maybe like all the things I was going through was actually for a reason. And then I started listening to, um, some information about manifesting and law of attraction. And I was really intrigued by that. And I joined this group coaching, and the teacher, Marilyn Janae, gave those of us who are working to reclaim our health a mantra to use. And I started saying this mantra: perfect health, healing now. Perfect health, healing now. Perfect health, healing now. I was folding laundry saying perfect health, healing now.
John Milham (Host) · 47:07
Wow.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 47:07
Wow. Walking up and down the stairs saying it. I was driving my kids places, saying it in my head. I just kept saying that mantra. And after a few days or weeks, I forget how long, I was getting a massage and some craniosacral therapy. And she said to me afterwards, um, Mindy, you have a lot going on. And she said, I think that you need more help. And she said, I have a colleague, Julie, downstairs that does more non-traditional kinds of things. Well, I happened to walk downstairs. And Julie was free and we talked for like an hour and a half and I scheduled an appointment with her. And at the time, one of my really annoying symptoms was I was hungry all the time, but I was having food sensitivities and reactions to everything I ate. And so that was not fun. And I did a treatment with Julie that resolved that right away. And I realized in that moment that what I had been saying, perfect health healing now, actually aligned me with someone who could finally help me. And so I started realizing the importance of my own mind and my attitude and my focus in terms of what was possible for me in my healing. So that was a huge wake-up to see such a dramatic result from using one simple tool.
John Milham (Host) · 48:26
Yeah.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 48:26
Wow.
John Milham (Host) · 48:27
So, you know, the single, that, that, um, mantra was unlocking you know, a change in focus and inner dialogue. How important is that? Like, you know, when can we talk ourselves into health?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 48:43
It's extremely important. Um, and, you know, no matter what we want, whether it's health or a better relationship or a better job or a more successful business, what we put our focus on is going to bring to us whatever we're focusing on. And so I had been for many years complaining about my health, complaining about my body, complaining about doctors. I had so much negativity, understandably. Um, and so there was no way on earth I could have ever found a solution if I would have maintained that attitude. And, um, so I started learning how to apply that attitude to everything in my life. I wanted to be a better parent. I wanted to be a better partner. I wanted to have, um, I wanted, you know, all the things that I wanted, I realized that ultimately, um, I couldn't have any of that as long as I still had a really negative attitude about any of those things. And so while, um, mindset alone is not enough, it puts on our path the things that we need to get us what we desire.
John Milham (Host) · 49:49
I love that. Um, is it available to everyone? Like the path you went from experiencing some really terrible times and then the solutions you adapted and then the bits that weren't sort of solved came to a head and you had to deal with those and now you have a really strong healing journey. I hate the word journey, but yeah, that's what it is. So that process that you've been through that we've you know, we can see in you, right? And you've shared the knowledge of it with us. Is that available to everybody, right? Do you have to be a certain, have a certain talent or propensity like yourself?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 50:35
Um, yes, it is available to everyone because I am not special. Um, I was, um, about as low as a person could get. I was barely hanging on. I did not want to be here on this planet. I wasn't going to remove myself, but I was really unhappy in every area of my life. I was physically unwell, and I feel like that's one of the blessings of my story is that I did not have like a unique set of circumstances, like parents who were naturopath doctors and a friend who was a healer, or I had no advantages other than I did have a very supportive husband. Um, and you know, even when it came to financial resources, because I was so committed to my healing, money kept showing up to pay for the things that I needed, um, when I needed them. And I have really cool stories about that. And so I just want to say emphatically, yes, my growth and my overcoming so much is available to anyone.
John Milham (Host) · 51:45
Just, just finally, um, what's best in life for you?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 51:53
Oh, so much. Um, to begin with, I want to say I have a belief in myself that I can really, um, overcome and experience what I want in life and that sense of kind of personal power and agency is priceless because it took me a lot of work and time to achieve it. And because I've focused so much on all aspects of my life, um, what's best in life, um, is my family. I have two young adult daughters that I totally cherish and adore. I have, um, a wonderful relationship with my husband who I also cherish and adore. I am experiencing growth in relationships and friendships and connections with people that I've never experienced in my life. I have work that is profoundly fulfilling and fun and exciting. And I feel like I'm just getting started. I feel like I'm at this scene in a movie, you know, where there's this sort of arc where there's, you know, the person goes through something horrible and then they're depressed and then they start getting their momentum. You know, they go out to dinner with friends and they're going to yoga and establishing new things. And I keep You know, laughing, feeling like I'm in that part of my life arc where the worst is behind me and now I'm really enjoying the kinds of normal things that a lot of people get to enjoy just from the get-go that I'm really now getting to experience. And I will tell you that I am certain I enjoy those kinds of things far more than most people because I longed for the things I'm experiencing in my life now for so long. And now that I'm Living it, it's delicious.
John Milham (Host) · 53:42
Thank you for going to your own journey. So thank you so much, Mindy. It's been awesome to hear you. Thank you. Thank you.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 53:53
Really enjoyed the conversation with you. You ask such wonderful questions and it's been delightful.
John Milham (Host) · 54:00
If people want to find out a little bit more about your story, read your book or, look at, um, how you have solved some of the problems we've spoken about, uh, how, how can they do that, Mindy?
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 54:13
So my website, um, has the offerings that I offer. So it's mindykessler.com. Uh, my book is called Cycle Breaker: A Guide for Transcending Childhood Trauma, which tells my story as a trauma therapist healing from my own trauma and suggestions I have for other people on the same path. And, um, I'm always doing new things. That's one thing I love about my work is there's a lot of variety. Um, I train other therapists and practitioners to do the kind of work that I do. I work with individuals in groups and I'm now, um, doing retreats, which is, um, very exciting. So I love the diversity of the work that I do. There's a little something for everyone.
John Milham (Host) · 54:55
Thank you, Mindy.
Mindi Kessler (Guest) · 54:56
Thank you so much. Thank you, John.
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