Jay Borthwick · 65 min
A man told to hide his dyslexia built a career connecting Australians across sixty languages, proving the very thing you're ashamed of can become your greatest strength.
Hear this story
Jay Borthwick grew up on Sydney's Northern Beaches with the ocean as his backyard, but at ten years old he was pulled from his regular class and placed in the special education room. Dyslexia meant he struggled to read and write, and the label stuck hard. Kids called him names. He learned to fight back, learned to survive the shame, and learned something else: if you cannot win in the classroom, you find wins everywhere else. He threw himself into sport, into connection, into doing things well.
Years later, Jay built a career at SBS helping Australians across more than sixty languages understand their new home. The irony is sharp and deliberate. A man who struggles with reading now spends his days connecting people through words. He does not do this by speaking other languages himself. Instead, he listens. He brings the right people into the room. He organises, he solves, he finds the human problem beneath the translation. At work and at home, he made a choice his younger self never had: to speak openly about his dyslexia rather than hide it, especially when his own daughter was diagnosed. He could not ask her to stay silent about something he had spent decades ashamed of.
This is a story about what happens when you stop running from the thing that breaks you and start building with it. Jay discovered that discipline and commitment matter more than natural talent, that the afternoon fog is real and can be managed, and that the small things done well create foundations strong enough for others to stand on after you step away.
“English is my one and only language, and I struggle at that because I'm dyslexic.”
“I failed everything in class. So I knew I was going to get a fail on everything I did. So I was like, well, let's be realistic here. Like I can't win there. So let's look at sport. Let's just be happy with what I've got.”
“I was kind of raised never to talk about it, never to speak about it, you know, just keep that quiet cuz it's you know that's a vulnerability that if it could get exposed at work.”
The hero, today
Jay discovered that he can be confident in environments where he builds discipline and commitment, which changed how he showed up in work and life after his experience with the East German rowing coach. When Jay realized his dyslexia was passed to his eldest daughter, he chose to speak openly about it rather than tell her to hide it, shifting from his childhood instruction to never talk about the disability. Jay's approach to working with multicultural communities is built on listening and finding solutions by bringing the right people into the room, not on speaking other languages himself. After doing a time audit that showed rowing was taking hours from family time, Jay made the choice to step away from a sport he loved, recognizing that something had to give. Jay believes the foundation for inclusive workplaces and communities comes from small, deliberate actions done well, like the sensory room at SBS, the Sunflower lanyard scheme, and training people who can carry on the work after he steps away.
Yes. Jay Borthwick is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Jay discovered that he can be confident in environments where he builds discipline and commitment, which changed how he showed up in work and life after his experience with the East German rowing coach.
When Jay realized his dyslexia was passed to his eldest daughter, he chose to speak openly about it rather than tell her to hide it, shifting from his childhood instruction to never talk about the disability.
Jay's approach to working with multicultural communities is built on listening and finding solutions by bringing the right people into the room, not on speaking other languages himself.
John Milham (Host) · 00:05
Welcome back to Kintsugi Heroes, helping people tell the stories they need to share so you can find the stories that you need to hear. Would you be able to champion voices the world often overlooks? My guest today, Jay Borthwick, grew up on Sydney's Northern Beaches. Spent 3 decades competing at the top in surf lifesaving and has built a remarkable career at SBS Media, connecting Australians across more than 60 languages. Jay also lives with dyslexia and has turned that experience into a powerful platform for inclusion. This is a story about courage, community, and the quiet resilience it takes to make sure no one gets left behind. Hey ladies and gentlemen and friends of Kintsugi Heroes Podcast, welcome back to another session with me, John Millum, as your host for Stories That Matter. And today, at the fear of repeating myself as I pretty much do at the start of every podcast, I'm really excited. To talk to my guest today because, um, uh, well, we go back a bit, right? Again, I, you know, we have a contact in the real world. It's a small place, Australia, only 27 million people. Um, but I have bumped into this man, and in fact, this man has spent quite some time, um, you know, being dragged around the footy field by me, right? So, you know, much faster, but like, you know, I looked after him quietly. An energetic young bloke who turned in to make his way in the world. He's done amazing things. He's built a career in cultural media transmission, right? So working for SBS and heading up councils and so on related to multicultural and inclusion elements, which is really exciting. Is a contributor, is one of those stalwarts that keeps Australia safe. 80% of our population exists on the coastline. And so what, 40 years in the surf lifesaving movement, Jay?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 02:36
30-plus years, mate. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 02:37
30-plus years. Not as old as me. And of course, that kind of volunteering That's really the backbone of Australia, so well done. A rugby man, as I mentioned, a boat sweep, a father, a husband. Man, it's somebody— you managed to keep your wife convinced that it was a good thing staying with you. It's impressive. I don't know how. Yeah, it's an impressive title, my friend. So that's a quick bio. Jay, what did I miss out, mate? Tell me about Jay Borthwick. And first of all, welcome to Kintsugi Heroes, brother.
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After doing a time audit that showed rowing was taking hours from family time, Jay made the choice to step away from a sport he loved, recognizing that something had to give.
This conversation includes growing up on the northern beaches, the year in nebraska and the moment it ended, the olympics driver, the greyhound buses, and finding two sides, joining sbs and understanding what the network really does, the dyslexic working in languages and translation and taken out of class and put in the special ed room.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 03:14
John, it's great to be here. Look, I'm really honored and privileged to have you interview me and to be speaking with you about this because I don't know where this is going to go. I feel like we should be in a bar having a beer somewhere doing this because I know you, I've seen you over the years. You are a very, very good, confident, you can hold a conversation. And you can tell a story and I love that. And when I found out that you're going to be interviewing me, I was like, you can't say no to these opportunities. So I'm really—
John Milham (Host) · 03:45
That's very kind, mate. I must admit, I don't— I once accompanied every story with a schooner. That doesn't happen anymore. I'm the paragon of virtue. I think perhaps a little monk-like in my existence these days. That's why I get so much out of tapping into the living vicariously through the experiences of these wonderful guests I get, including you, mate. So you managed to deflect the story of who Jay Borthwick was.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 04:19
I did.
John Milham (Host) · 04:20
Where did you grow up, man?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 04:22
I grew up on the Northern Beaches. So I grew up in a— and this is for true locals— I grew up in a little area called Bongambongan Bay. Otherwise known as Mona Vale Basin. Wow. Born and raised there. My parents were really in the early, late teens, early 20s, not knowing, as my dad said at my 21st birthday party, good drugs and bad lovin' is what created me.
John Milham (Host) · 04:52
Wow.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 04:53
And they only had one child and I'm it. And we grew up in a 2-bedroom unit on the beaches.. And it was during the '80s. I got to tell you what, Mirnavale Basin and Surfview Road is the street which runs along that area. Colorful place. Yeah. One of the— there's so many fond memories of living there. Like colorful characters come and go from unit blocks and you're always on your toes. As a young kid, there was lots of other kids around in the neighborhood. And if you weren't playing handball or skateboarding in the street, you're in the ocean. And I spent a lot of time in the ocean. So, I remember once I was at the beach and I was probably 10 or 11 and I was playing with a friend in the water and the mom came over and she said, "Do you— where are your parents?" And I said, "They're at work." And she had this look on her face of absolute fright and fear of like, why is this boy down the beach by himself? But in all honesty, I knew the ocean, I knew my elements and I was quite comfortable in them. And then she realized when I said where I lived, I live so close to the ocean, but you could see literally my backyard was the ocean. I was very fortunate to have that life of, you know, grass and then sand and then salt water. So every day was an adventure in Mandeville. But from there, you know, I've always grown up around Northern Beaches and I've moved away a couple of times. I spent a year in America. I lived in America in Nebraska. For a while and travel around there. In that year, I traveled by myself as a year of self-discovery. And what I learned pretty quickly was that I need the smell of the ocean. I need to see or smell and get wet. And that was a good experience because I remember, and you'll love this story, John, I was sitting in a basement in a house watching TV at like 4 in the morning. So I was working shift work at a restaurant and I was eating my pizza and I was extremely tired. And then that came on and it was for the restaurant that I worked in called Outback Steakhouse. Now the ad had— and what do you appreciate here? First time away from home, you know, no friends, no family. And I just finished the national titles for surf lifesaving for surf boat rowing. And in the ad had Rick Miller and his crew carrying the boat that I raced against them in, carrying it across the beach, making them all look all big, strong, and tough. And I was like at my lowest of lows, and I thought, that's where I want to be, back on the sand, back in my slogos, back in the water. And here I am, it's cold, it's dark, and I'm in a basement.
John Milham (Host) · 07:46
So Rick had that effect on people. Everyone wanted to get back and beat him, right?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 07:53
He was a—
John Milham (Host) · 07:54
RIP our friend and famous competitor in the surfboat rowing. Tell me, Outback Steakhouse, is that the place where— what was it? Blooming Young Onions or something?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 08:09
Blooming Onions. The mahi-mahi and the ribeye were the specialties I always had to sell. That was quite a unique experience.
John Milham (Host) · 08:19
What's outback about any of that, right?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 08:22
So, yes, so it's kind of funny. So I landed there in the early 2000s and just after the Olympics.
John Milham (Host) · 08:30
Yeah.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 08:31
So, and I won't go into full details, but long story short, I—
John Milham (Host) · 08:36
so you were there to wait until the, you know, to the, you know, the heat had got out of the, you know, What happened, John, was I worked during the Olympics for Foster's, right, in Sydney 2000.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 08:53
Just by chance, Foster's invited Outback Steakhouse to the Olympics, and my job was to drive them around. I had an SUV which was wrapped in like a Foster's beer case, and my job was to drive them around to any Olympic events that they wanted to go to. They had like a golden ticket, basically.
John Milham (Host) · 09:11
They could go anywhere. Oh, wow.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 09:12
I could drive anywhere. So I got to know their families really well.
John Milham (Host) · 09:15
Yeah.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 09:16
And then I had a friend that fortunately had a restaurant in Nebraska, which was an Outback Steakhouse. So they didn't know that I was going to work over there because I was working over there just quietly, illegally.
John Milham (Host) · 09:27
Yeah. I mean, let the heat die down off your—
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 09:31
Yeah, I was working for tips. It was a fun time period. But when I got there, they had the Australian Survivor series on and. And what happened was is that the owner of the restaurant, our family friend, said, hey, we've got the Nebraska News team coming to interview someone at the Outback because we're having a party. Right.
John Milham (Host) · 09:51
Oh, wow.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 09:52
I was totally jet-lagged. I had my eyes hanging out of my head. Anyway, I did this interview about Australia and how I'm Australian, how privileged I am and stuff like that. And a couple of weeks later, I show up to work and Jake, the owner, calls me and he goes, Jay, the head of Outback Steakhouse, sees all of our collateral, marketing collateral, TV collateral, and he's seen you and he's identified you as the person that drove him around during the Olympics.
John Milham (Host) · 10:19
Yeah.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 10:21
And I was like, okay, what does this mean for you and I? And he goes, well, fortunately he's a good guy and he obviously, his family like you, but they're going to ask you nicely to travel around America, going to other restaurants and working for them in other restaurants. And I was like, golden ticket, this is great. So I, you know, Greyhound buses all around America. But in that time period, I learned that, you know, as much as I had fun, um, and John, you know me well enough to know that I am a bit of an extrovert, um, I do dance on one foot to the other. But I learned while I was over there is that I can also be an introvert. And, and I have two caps now, which I, I can either be the extrovert when I want to be, and I I generally, I really enjoy the introvert stages of my life when I can sit back and just watch and explore the world.
John Milham (Host) · 11:08
By introvert, are you meaning you're okay with sitting with yourself, being alone?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 11:12
Just, yeah, I love those moments of solitude. I think it's an opportunity which is lost in our societies of being able to sit still and just collect with your own thoughts. I think one of the things, there's a thing on social media where I saw It was called raw dogging where people would sit on a flight and do a 90-minute flight without anything. And I was like, that's how I used to catch a bus.
John Milham (Host) · 11:43
That was called childhood. But isn't it interesting because you're actually in the media world and yet now there's a real dichotomy between, and perhaps a dissonance, between whether we should be promoting media the way we do and building content and trying to increase engagement with it. And yet at the same time, you're a father, you're with teenage kids, we've got those challenges about now we've been on this experiment, social media experiment for 20, 30 years. And we're now starting to see the longer-term implications more clearly.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 12:32
Suicide's gone up.
John Milham (Host) · 12:33
Yeah. So is that something you're aware of?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 12:36
Yeah, I'm very privileged enough because I work at SBS and I work in the in-language team and I get to work with a lot of, a variety of clients, nonprofits, as you know, John. Corporate, government agencies. And the one thing when I work with someone that's wanting to communicate in another language, they're wanting to authentically connect and it's our responsibility to help them authentically connect. So I'm very privileged to see and sit back as that kind of not introvert, but I get to sit back and I get to see data and information about how Australia is trying to better itself. And make a better community and inclusive society. Because there are people that are really passionate about trying to make a difference. And at a government scale and also at a corporate scale, people are wanting to make that difference. And yeah, it's an area which I find fascinating. Like, I enjoy what I do because there are so many different groups out there that are disadvantaged or none the wiser. And it's just about taking the moment, it's going, well, what is the best strategy and what is the best way to help someone connect with them so they can get information to make them better people.
John Milham (Host) · 13:50
It's interesting, mate. I've noted over the years when you're like your business, when I realize what business you're in, at the time you joined it, SBS was one of those kind of bolt-on kind of oddities in Australian society, right? It was almost like 'Oh, we know we need to have this. We're not sure why, but it's good there and let me watch it for the foreign films.' Or if you like soccer, you've got a chance to watch that. But now, given that more than 30% of Australians are first generation now and more than 50% are exposed to English as a second language, right? So, you know, so, or first generation of non-English speaking people. So SPS has changed now. It's become much more integrated. How did you watch that happen? What was that like, right? But you're like, do you Did you feel like you were becoming mainstream or becoming more essential to the Australian experience?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 15:10
Well, yeah, John, like, yeah, it's interesting because when I first started my career, I was at Channel 9. And when I was at Channel 9, the slogan was "Still the One," and they were the number one channel network in Australia. And back then, right, and I'm going to get back to SBS for you, right? But back then, advertising would dictate and tell you when and where you could advertise, right? And we tell you how much it's going to cost and that was kind of it. And then I moved out of Channel 9, I went to an agency and things kind of changed and I stepped away from the media. I went overseas, but I stepped out of media for a while and I came back to it and then I started SBS. I remember my boss when I was resigning from my job, I said, I'm going to SBS. And he kind of laughed and he was like, why would you go to Sex Before Soccer? Like, because that's what it was nicknamed. And I was like, in that moment there, because he was a bit mystified by it all, I realized I made the aha moment. I've done the right thing. And when I joined the group, we were a small team for advertising, but we were proud and passionate and we knew what we're fighting for. We're fighting for, you know, uh, space. There's, there's government, you know, the— we've got government legislations, of course, that we have to follow and mandate. And, and in doing so, um, we're only allowed to advertise 5 minutes of advertising an hour. So whereas the other free-to-air networks, when I first started, well, you know, they can run up to 15 minutes advertising break in between, you know, their programs.
John Milham (Host) · 16:50
Yeah, they do 5 minutes of programming between advertisings.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 16:53
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, so and we quickly realized that our less clutter had a striking chord with the community because you could see— you wouldn't see McDonald's, KFC, you wouldn't see all the fast food brands back to back. You'd only see one fast food ad backed up with a car company or whatever it may be. And, and when you're working in an environment where, in advertising especially, we're a small group, you've got to be nimble and you've got to be strategic with what you're presenting out there in market, right? So At SBS, they— we work really on an oily rag, um, because while, while we do sell advertising, all that money goes back into building better content, um, because we're a nonprofit. So our programmers work really hard, and especially our news team too, work really hard on providing the right content and meeting, meeting the requirements of what we have to do to producing authentic content, which is non-biased newswise. Of course, but content which is, you know, trustworthy. And we are the most trustworthy news provider in Australia. So there's that with the Australian community. There's that level of understanding that they're going to get something which is trustworthy. The content, it's either for you, you either like it or you don't, and you're going to watch it. But over the years, John, what we've seen is we've seen the market break up. So it's become more diversified. You don't have to watch Fred Ware anymore. No, you can, you can watch where most people are watching content is on this thing here.
John Milham (Host) · 18:19
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 18:20
And, and that's a hard audience to attain. So to get someone to sit down and watch a half-hour program, 30 minutes of program, is really hard. So you got to make sure your content's good. Like podcasts have gone through the roof and, and we play in that area. But over the years we have been slowly building our resources in those areas where our competitors hadn't. So it's really brought everyone down to our level on how they compete for advertising revenue.
John Milham (Host) · 18:49
So we're talking about the nature of SBS growing into become a much more important player in a diversified social setting, right? So Australia really quickly kind of embraced the concept of inclusion, same but separate, multicultural elements, and did it pretty well, right? What's your impression of the way we embrace that?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 19:23
I think there's always more to strive for. And I think when we use the word embrace, I think all Australians want to embrace. Change. And, and, you know, but it's just about finding the right at the right time period. Of course, timing's a big thing. Um, and, and then the next thing is too, it's, it's about who, who and why. Um, and I think West— we're still embracing certain changes within Australia. We're not fully there. I think we've still got a long way to go. Um, and, and, you know, SBS is one of the, the I think, leaders when it comes to the focal point of getting communication out there in multiple languages, which is great to be in an inclusive society.
John Milham (Host) · 20:08
Yeah, because certain Asian languages and European languages are significantly spoken in Australia, right? And yet, we need to communicate to everyone in English, but also, it's important to have other languages recognized and catered for. Mate, how many languages do you speak?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 20:34
Well, English is my one and only language, and I struggle at that because I'm dyslexic. So if you had asked 10-year-old Jay whether he would be working in multicultural communities and translating thousands of words a week, the 10-year-old Jay would have laughed and scratched his head and said, why would I do something like that?
John Milham (Host) · 20:58
So you just opened a gateway to new questions and we'll go through that gate in a minute. But the importance, so do you ever get jealous that other people are communicating around you in different languages?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 21:17
Look, no, I don't. When I took on this role, when I moved out of media and I moved into the translation side of things, um, and multicultural communities, I had, had to go in there with a growth mindset and be curious at everything that comes my way because there's all— there's so many things to learn and there's so many cultures and there's so many things that take place where it's like, I had no idea. So you're always learning and always developing, you know, your own kind of like little book of knowledge, um, so, and that's what kind of inspires me to, to every phone, like every phone call, every job I, I work on there's always this kind of like, all right, what are we doing? Like, what's this? Where's this going to lead to? And it leads to something because whoever you're dealing with is really passionate about what they do. So, and when you're dealing with multicultural, when you're dealing with translators, they're really passionate about what they do. It's about getting in. It's not just doing a translation. Like, you know, I'll write something down on a notepad, right? And it might be half right, you know what I mean? But they go to great detail to what their job is. And that's not only just the translators, it's also the voice talent too, because we obviously record in multiple languages too. And the Voice talent are proud of their voice being associated with whatever it is they're doing.
John Milham (Host) · 22:30
That's a very different sense of SBS, right? Because of course it doesn't just exist as a media entity, it is actually the lifeline, the connection and communication for a whole bunch of Australians who desperately need that support to to build their safety and capacity in the community.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 22:52
Yeah, you're right. We have a website called Australia Explained and it's updated every day. It's a news platform, right? But it's updated regularly every day in 60 languages. So, the content we provide there is for new migrants that come to Australia and it's the basic things. So, there's vodcast, there's podcasts, there's editorial pieces about, you know, What are you going to do to open a bank account? What are you going to do when you go to the beach? What is Australian slang? Do you know what I mean?
John Milham (Host) · 23:26
Yeah, well, yeah. And yeah, like everyday stuff that we take for granted but like essential. If you don't put on sunscreen, you can actually die from not knowing that you're in Australia.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 23:42
But they're all the foundational steps, right? Of assimilating to the area you're in, the environment you're in. So it means a lot when somebody can understand like the basic things. Like there's an episode in there, you know, um, how to support at a football game.
John Milham (Host) · 23:59
Yeah, wow.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 24:00
But you know, there's—
John Milham (Host) · 24:02
it's very different.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 24:03
It's very different. Yeah, yeah, I guess those real basic things that just we all take for granted, but it makes a huge difference, that community. Because you know, I, I've seen it, especially with lifesaving. I've seen it on the beach where people are, you know, multicultural communities or people that are new to the country are out of their depth zone and you want them to have a fun time and really respectful.
John Milham (Host) · 24:25
Yeah, it's not until you're, you know, you're 4 foot in, you realize you can't swim and that the ocean is, you know, far more powerful than you are, right? You know, we've all pulled those people out.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 24:35
We have, but it's making sure they have a fun time. They walk away knowing that they've had a fun, safe time period and they've learned a little bit more about the community.
John Milham (Host) · 24:43
So you're a lifesaver on the beach and also, you know, a lifesaver at work. That's lovely, right?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 24:48
Well, yeah, so the other thing I took on board as a voluntary role is I've been a part since, gawd, it's 2018, 6 years. We started the access group at SBS, which is the EAGs. So it's engagement for the staff members. So there's the Pride, there's the Malti, there's the Greens, there's Access, right? And I joined that group because I learned— because Access is about people with visible and non-visible disabilities. And at that time period, like, so I'm dyslexic and I was kind of raised not— never to talk about it, never to speak about it, you know, just keep that quiet because it's, you know, that's a vulnerability that if it could get exposed at work. And I always had that kind of mindset. Then our ex-MD did this speak, and it all happened in this time period in my life where there's change happening. The MD was speaking about how he identifies as gay and that he was always told never to share it, never to speak about it. I kind of aligned with it, like always keep something like that private. Then he came out and spoke about it, and I thought, why can't I speak about my dyslexia? Why can't I speak about my disability? In that time period, Access was starting up, and I decided to join up. And the reason for that was because my eldest daughter is dyslexic, and I was like, what kind of a man would I be or a parent would I be if I told her not to talk about it? Like, we've got to embrace this. So I embrace it full-heartedly, and now I'm the co-chair of the Access Group, and we've done so many great things in the 3 years that I've been a volunteer as co-chair that I'm quite proud about. And it's about Building, as you know, John, building a legacy so that when you step away, the legacy continues on and it goes in the right direction because everyone who's a volunteer has got their heart in the right place. But it's about building little foundations where they can continue on that legacy.
John Milham (Host) · 26:48
I think that's the highest expression of a human being of service to other humans, right? So finding a way to do that in modern society is pretty tricky sometimes, right? So it sounds like you've done well. So, and of course, you working in communication and connection, right, with dyslexia, isn't it, you know, like, is basically, isn't that running into the hard bit and saying, right, like, let me run towards the problem instead of, you know, like trying to get around?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 27:21
Yeah, it's embracing, it's embracing who you are and it's using all the resources that you can use. So, like, I learned at a young age that I'm really good at organizing people and situations to get to the goal that I need to get to. And I've always adopted that. I did that when I was rowing. I found the rowers, organized the accommodation, the travels and stuff like that, organized the training and did that. And then at work, of course, I don't speak another language, but I'm good at listening. And with listening comes hearing a person's problem and finding a potential solution for them. And it's about pulling the right people around the building into the one room to come to a solution for that problem that may be communicating to new migrants to Australia that have low literacy levels here in Australia. We're not going to write anything for them. We're going to do it in audio form because they're going to understand it if it's spoken and not written.
John Milham (Host) · 28:23
I really want to ask this question. I just realized you're the perfect person to ask it. So, you know, often in the world of communication training and so on, we use a stat that came out from some research years ago. And I've never tested it beyond the often repeated stat that is about 8% of communication is content, words and language. About 38% is tone and timbre and accent and emphasis. And then the rest, just over 50%, is non-verbal communication. So gestures and body status, shape, and et cetera. So you're the perfect person to ask because you're an extrovert, a communicator. You're in a job where you are actually connecting with members of communities who don't have English or have sort of English as a second language, right? So is that right? Can you communicate, you know, well even if the language isn't 100%?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 29:54
Yeah, you can. Like, there are so many scenarios where you got to look at the culture, and one of the things is, right, is every culture has its own— we'll talk about body language, right— has their own way and structure of how they communicate. And like, It's funny you bring up body language because for me body language is a huge part of the negotiation, the process, and reading the room. And when you're brought into an environment, it helps if you know what community you're dealing with and their background story. We have at SBS, we've got a Cultural Atlas website. We can do a little quick run-through if you're dealing with a particular culture.
John Milham (Host) · 30:33
Cultural Atlas. So I can find out if I'm having a meeting with members of one community, I can check in and go, what should I know about greeting them?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 30:43
Or, you know, yeah, some things I should be worried about so I can be culturally respective. Yeah, community. And that helps a great deal because I've been in meetings over the years, John, where I thought the meeting was going really poorly and it's actually doing really well. And it's because culturally I wasn't aware of what was taking place. But now as I've matured, that Cultural Atlas is a great resource for me because you can do a little quick update. You can go, "I got half an idea here. I reckon I can work with this." And it changes the whole attitude of the meeting or the process of communication. So for me, like John, what you're saying about the breakdown, the percentages breakdowns, reading the room and the body language is a huge part. While the language may not be there, everyone, if you're in that room, everyone's heart's in the right place. So, and it's about, you know, breaking it down to what they want and what you want. I always believe in any negotiation or any dealings with anyone, it should be a win-win scenario at all times. Um, and, and there are cultures out there that don't really operate like that. So it's about understanding that from the get-go and then going, all right, what's the best win for both scenarios here where it's not a win-lose? Because I want to make sure that I walk away with this negotiation with a win. I want to make sure that they do too because I don't want to rip anyone off. I want to make sure that's a fair trade here. Absolutely.
John Milham (Host) · 32:09
Hey, communication to other cultures in our community, right? Because we're all in sort of sub-communities and communities now. So, essentially, we're in the same place doing the same thing, but we have different perspectives, right? Different cultural perspectives. How would you say we have, from your experience in talking to so many different aspects of the Australian mosaic, right? We often hear about our differences and that seems to be the dialogue, right? People emphasize them for, you know, they're either emphasizing the differences positively or they're also held up as a reason to be angry or dismissive. Would you say we have more in common than most people know or even more in common than we would expect ourselves to have?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 33:12
Do you mean Australians?
John Milham (Host) · 33:13
Yeah, so regardless of where we come from, right?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 33:16
Yeah, I think we all have something in common across the board. We all have something in common. We're human beings. We love. We're all human beings. And I think everyone has— you've got to find the essence of where our connection is. And once you find that, you know, the sky's the limit, right?
John Milham (Host) · 33:34
So in a multicultural sense, the fundamental truths remain true regardless of what culture you come from.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 33:42
Yeah, absolutely.
John Milham (Host) · 33:43
That's— I think that, but you might be able to sort of No, tell me it's true.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 33:49
It is true. Like, what happens, John, is that when people migrate from anywhere to wherever they're going, whether it be in Europe or anywhere, why are they migrating? Someone have a better life. That's it. They've had to— they've had to— for either they've had the choice, they've made the choice themselves, or they haven't made the choice, right? But what they're doing is they're trying to better themselves, right? And, and 99% of the time Everyone just wants a better life. And what I'm always touched by is when I hear stories of people that have migrated, especially to Australia, and they're blown away about how much freedom they've got to express themselves. And that's truly a humbling experience when you hear stories of people not realizing. I had a funny story I got to share, but This is in my early career working with multicultural communities. I was working with a team member. She's Indian. She'd moved from India, arranged marriage, met the person through her family online, married, moved over to Australia. And then it was a Monday morning. John, I was probably at a surf carnival with you, right? And been at the beach for 8 hours. So it's Monday morning, I'm sunburnt and just going through the processes. And she came in with— she was new to the organization— she came with the biggest smile, you know, you could feel that smile.
John Milham (Host) · 35:16
Yeah, yeah.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 35:16
And I was like, how's your weekend? You ask that, you throw— it's a throwaway question, how's your weekend, right? And, and she goes, you wouldn't believe it, Jay, I went and rode a bike for the first time. And I was like, what, what do you mean? Like, I get you haven't ridden a bike before. She goes, I've never ridden a bike and I've never ridden a bike outside. So she, she experienced bikes and seen bikes before, right? From where she grew up in a village, right? Because she's female, wasn't allowed to ride it. And her new husband, her husband was like, let's go for a ride. And she was like, it was the best fun I've ever had. I take it for granted, but that moment made me realize how touching that was. So now she's an avid bike rider because of that one experience.
John Milham (Host) · 36:02
I reckon SBS has done a lot of the heavy lifting in helping Australians be so, you know, to gain different perspectives. And do you get that sense of like mission, right?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 36:14
Yeah, yeah, there's many things that, you know, we're really privileged to do, but we've all, all employees have got, you know, the one heart. And I see it time and time again, people join SBS and Status Biz for some time because they're very passionate and that when you've got a sense of values, the cause and the mission becomes a lot easier to do. And, you know, it's— I want to say one heartbeat, but we all know what we're there to do and everyone goes about it in the right way. And that's what makes it easier to do the job.
John Milham (Host) · 36:49
But of course, when you were talking about access, right, a 10-year-old Jay with dyslexia, that's a tough place to be. How did that shape, you know, like you're very positive and you're very affirming for other people. Yeah. But having dyslexia and being in school, right, I'm neurodivergent myself. So, you know, I look back and think there are a lot of people who didn't have a lot of, you know, understanding or care for that, right? So That must have been tough.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 37:24
In the '80s, yeah, it was. We identified at a young age that I was dyslexic. I couldn't read or write.
John Milham (Host) · 37:30
So what is dyslexia? What did it manifest for you?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 37:35
Well, look, I just need time. I need time to read and analyze and process anything that's put in front of me. I'm not the guy that can just read something and go, yep, got it, let's move on. I have to read it, analyze it. Sometimes reflect on it, and then I'm like going to my little, my place, and then I come out and I've made a decision. And I'm also very, I can be very stubborn too, but once I've made my decision on what I've analyzed and I've processed, then I'm good to go.
John Milham (Host) · 38:02
So are you re— like, do you have to decide the meaning of, of things, right? Is it, does dyslexia only relate to your words and numbers, or is it like a different way of seeing the world?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 38:14
Look, John, there are many forms of dyslexia. Okay, and everyone— not— it's like every way is different, right? Every dyslexia person has something which is same but just a slightly different way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And for me, it was just at a young age, like I couldn't read and writing was not my thing at all. I thank God my name's Jay with 3 letters in it. If it had been any longer, it would have been a nightmare. So for me overall, I just need the time to analyze and process and read something. And let's be brutally honest with you, with dyslexia, it's always hidden with another disability, usually ADHD or ADD. And when I was diagnosed with dyslexia, that was never diagnosed. It was just, we know in your family dyslexia exists, so you're dyslexic. And what happened for me was, is that I remember vividly, they took me— I was at Manivale Primary School, and they took me out of the class and they said, you're now going to spend time in this other class. And they're going to help you read and write. And I was like, okay, so one, I'm being taken out of a class with all my friends and I'm being put in this other class with people with visible disabilities. And it was a bit of a shock to me. And when I walked into the room, they said, here's— and there's a stapled piece of paper— this is what you're going to be learning. And I was like, oh, and I was in year 4 and we're doing stuff which was kindergarten stuff, right? Those colored pencils, now get going. I was like, I don't need, like, I know all this, like, I don't need to do this. And it was because back then the school system was set up for, you know, right, well, if you're not working out, we're going to give you 2 hours every week.
John Milham (Host) · 39:55
It was the dreaded remedial, wasn't it? You know, we're going to give you remedial work.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 39:59
Yeah, it was called the special class, special ed class, right? Which, that's what it was called, you know, at a teacher level and parent level, but In the playground, I was effectively called a retard, and I was in the retard class, which was really hurtful, and it affected me a lot because you go from being one of the boys to then one of the boys who's a retard, and, you know, playing handball, playing any kind of sports. So you learn to fight quickly because that's how you express yourself as a young kid, and you get into more and more trouble. So Look, I am very optimistic and I am very positive with everything I do. And the reason for that was because I failed everything in class. So I knew I was going to get a fail on everything I did. So I was like, well, let's be realistic here. Like, I can't win there. So let's look at sport. Let's just be happy with what I've got. So any wins I had, I'd celebrate. Like, that was it. So I was never going to be that negative Nelly. I mean, I just couldn't see myself going down that path. But fortunately had really great parents that realized what they had in front of them. And, and like, fast forward, I, I got to high school and I had a good community around me, good foundation of friends around me. That makes a huge difference too.
John Milham (Host) · 41:15
Yeah, yeah.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 41:16
Um, and then they did this thing, John, in the '90s when they won the Olympics for Sydney 2000, they did a tryout day. And this was a pivotal moment for me. I went and tried out with, you know, 15,000 other kids to do a sport. And at that time period, I want to be a basketball player. And, and I was never going to be a basketball player, but I, I remember vividly the moment they did a, the beep test, and one of the guys I was running against— Toby, Toby Walker, right? You know Toby?
John Milham (Host) · 41:43
Yeah, I do. Yeah.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 41:45
Anyway, he was cross-country runner, he was an all-star, everything. I was like— he was doing the beep test before me. I was like, all right, if I can beat him in the beep test, if I can just do that I might be in a chance to make the NBA and play basketball. My goals were so unrealistic and whatnot. And anyway, I beat him in the beep test and he was angry, of course. And that's another story in itself with Tobes. But anyway, this guy came out, 6-foot-7 German guy came out with a clipboard and he said, come over here. And he's asking me, you know, all these things. And he said to me the oddest thing I've heard. He goes, can you swim? I kind of looked up at him and I was like, I was like, I was 14 at the time. I was like, yeah, I can swim, I surf every day, like, you know. And he goes, good, you'll make a good rower. And with that, he spun around and walked off. And we got a phone call saying you've been selected to represent—
John Milham (Host) · 42:36
you've been identified as rowing talent.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 42:39
And then I joined this rowing program and I was like, I don't even know what the sport is. And I showed up the first day and knowing that I could float and swim. And it was a comedy of errors. And we had an East German coach who, realistically, right, he had no idea. This is my first kind of in touch with multicultural communities, right? East German coach, right, who won gold medals at the Olympics, right, had this very, very focused mindset, right? He's now got Jay, whose head's all over the shop and wants to surf, swim, play basketball, right? And he's trying to tell me how I should be this elite athlete, and everyone else too in the program.
John Milham (Host) · 43:17
Yeah, which wouldn't have been like— East Germans and Australian kids must have been a challenge for him, right?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 43:23
It was. We, we sent him gray really fast, and he was a lovely— when you got to know him, the nuts and bolts, he's a really lovely character. But at the same time too, it was hard, and we weren't used to that. But what he did for me was, is he made me realize what discipline was and, and what commitment was to— yeah, you gotta sit— yeah, you can't read, like, you know, you shit at school, that's fine. However, if you get up at 4:59 before the sun rises and you're on the water at this time period and you put in the effort, you'll see results. And I did that. So my, my career ended with still water rowing, unfortunately. I hurt my back. Um, it was— that was the first Olympics where they, uh, they were going to bring in lightweight rowing, so they saw me as a potential lightweight rower. And— but I trained with heavyweights, and my back was never going to survive doing all that training that they were doing in the gym, and I just never recovered. So I, you know, governments doing governments, can't afford to have injured people around, so they got rid of me.
John Milham (Host) · 44:22
Well, that, you know, the lifesaving movement picked, picked you up and, and, and fed the medals, right? So it did.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 44:29
It was very fortunate that I lived in an area where, you know, I'd watch the boats go in and out thought nothing of it. And then after doing my time in a stillwater boat and then being combined, a sport that I believe I'm good at, to being in the surf, which I love, it was like, this is a match in heaven. This is perfect for me. But what it did for me though was it built up— getting back to dyslexia— you got to put in the effort to get the results. There's no denying that. And you got to take accountability for everything you do. So, and if there's one thing I hate is people saying, oh, it's because of my disability. It's like, yeah, so what? Like, figure it out.
John Milham (Host) · 45:09
Yeah, I like, um, the sense of, um, you know, getting a diagnosis late in life, the sense of, um, being informed but not be— not being defined, right? So I quite like that. Is that how you see having dyslexia?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 45:28
Well, yeah, like, I've— since the pandemic, that There have been a lot of people identify at work with a neurodiversity of some kind. And there's nothing wrong with that. But what really inspires me is that there's a lot of managers out there that are presented with this challenge. It's like, oh, there's nothing wrong with the person before they were diagnosed, but we've now got to find them on their journey to continue to be their better selves and identify with whatever it is they're identifying with on how they can take those moments. So one of the things we did was at SBS was we identified, we saw this trend happening that, you know, when we first started Access, there was 2% of the employees that identified with a disability. And it was like, right, well, we're going to increase our education and knowledge in this area. And now we're at 14% of our, you know, employees identify with neurodiversity, right? So more and more people have come out openly because they're confident to talk about it. But there's also been people who have been diagnosed later on in life.
John Milham (Host) · 46:29
So people being aware of it, it wasn't wasn't understood. To be honest, dyslexia wasn't understood. Like, even the teachers at school didn't really know what dyslexia meant.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 46:40
No, they don't. But what we did— getting back to my point here, John— is that what we did was we identified those people with neurodiversities that need moments where they need to kind of just have a moment to themselves. So we created a sensory room. So the sensory room is an area where anyone can go to and sitting there, and we've set up with couches and chairs and blankets and fidget spinners, right, where you can sit there and you can dim the lights, you can close the blinds, and you can just have that moment to yourself just to reorganize yourself. Because most of our offices are open environments and they're noisy and they're loud. And if you go into a noisy, loud environment and you're told you have got to work, it becomes, you know, you've got so many things going on around you, it becomes clutter. So you need that moment to take it back and kind of go, all right, calm the farm, give myself a moment, I can go back out there and do my job.
John Milham (Host) · 47:35
Yeah, it's really important, um, uh, it's, uh, for, uh, say, people on the spectrum with ASD or something, you know, to reduce the sensory, uh, load at times, right, when they're having an experience. So that's amazing stuff, right? What about, um, just taking that further, that the sense you've used the term visible and invisible disability. And of course, you know, neurodiversity, like, it's amazing how quickly it is sort of being, you know, being sort of exposed as a percentage of the population. So what changed? Why suddenly can we see what was invisible for so long? What you lived with as invisible, why can we see that now?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 48:24
Yeah, why can we see it next is there's more and more research and there's more and more knowledge in regards to the neurodiversities out there. So one of the things when this was all taking place with the sensory room and more and more people identifying with, you know, neurodiversity, we aligned with this organization called Sunflower. Have you heard of Sunflower?
John Milham (Host) · 48:45
Yeah, yeah.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 48:46
So we aligned with them because it's like, all right, well, we need to raise the awareness. I don't have my—
John Milham (Host) · 48:51
I don't know.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 48:54
I have my lanyard. I have a lanyard for it. And I also have a wristband too where I wear the Sunflower logo. And it's just a subtle nod to say, hey, I get it. You don't have to say— John doesn't have to expose his neurodiversity if he doesn't want to. Again, extrovert, introvert, happy to talk about it, right? You may not be happy talking about what your neurodiversity is. It's an invisible disability. But if you wear the sunflower lanyard and you're having a moment and you're wearing that lanyard, I know that you just need a moment. And it changes the whole concept of how we engage with one another. It's like New South Wales Transport ticket on board. Great idea for them to do that, right? People could be having a moment on public transportation and it's like, well, what's his problem? To, "Hey, you okay over there?" Changes everything, doesn't it?
John Milham (Host) · 49:46
Yeah. Well, so many interesting things. We keep thinking about society steadily going downhill, but when you think about the level of awareness that's grown around a particularly tricky subject, right? It gives me hope that we are actually doing some of these things with intention and doing them quite well. It seems to be better for, say, neurodiversity to— we've dropped stigma faster and we've sort of developed a space for it faster than depression or anxiety or alcohol and other drug stuff.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 50:31
Well, look at the environment we're in right now. We were talking about social media before. Okay. It's an environment where you don't have to engage with anyone. And you can— and like, as much as you can troll, I question that— control what you're looking at. But the algorithm can quickly figure out what your interests are, right? So you get being bombarded in the workspace, in your local environment, and then when you get disconnect and you're at home, you've still got this thing here, right? And it's really, it's again, it's coming down to have that deliberate exposure to what you want to see and what you don't want to see in your surroundings. So with neurodiversities, right, there's a lot of clutter and you've got to be able to clear it all away and really set yourself, you know, a strong foundation of what's going to make you a better person.
John Milham (Host) · 51:21
So as a champion of those kind of, you know, disability, invisible and visible. So, um, do you take that in? Like, are you trying to actively change your environment at work? And do you bring that home and into the community as well?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 51:40
Yes and no. So yeah, I'm actively always looking towards how can we make— and it's again about being curious.
John Milham (Host) · 51:47
I don't—
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 51:48
there's no magic pill, there's no golden bullet here for this. It's like, it's learning as quickly as you can and making sure you can empower all employees to be the best employees at work, right? And inclusive. And what happens is, which I've seen, this is just collectively in general, when one person changes from one organization to another, there is this wall that we all have around us, right? It's kind of force-filled area. And when you go into an inclusive environment, it's kind of like, is this for real? Like, is this really happening? So it's about creating an environment where people can come into work and just be their best and be just do their job and be authentic as they can be and have everything they need, all the basic resources they can be to perform. Some employees, like for myself, right, I know myself, come— what is it, it's 12 o'clock now— come 2 o'clock when I'm during a work week, I get brain fog and I just start to slow up mentally, right?
John Milham (Host) · 52:44
So is that because of the extra processing space you need to manage dyslexia? Is that what—
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 52:52
Oh, look, no, I run on 3 to 5 hours sleep a night. So I'll get up early and my brain's ticking over and I just start working. So, and I've got clients that are international and if I'm up there, I know they're up so I can start working. But I get to that time period of the afternoon where I've had lunch and I'm looking at all the low-hanging fruit of things I can do, which are easy. The jobs where it's a process, it's not something I have to think creatively. So I try to do everything I can as best I can in the morning and I get to the end of the afternoon, it's all the things that are easy to do, I get them out of the way because they're easy to do. I'm setting myself up for the best process possible to succeed.
John Milham (Host) · 53:35
Sounds like a good process for your circumstance. What else did you learn? I was fascinated to hear that story, you know, like of of fighting through, so outrunning the runner, you know, like, you know, fighting to achieve something that, you know, no one expected you to do, which is really the, you know, the way of attacking that, you know, so-called disability and treating it, you know, as a fact of life, not a disability. It's just an aspect to integrate into how you approach things. Is that, you know, what you do daily? How would you help? Or so, for instance, how did you help your daughter navigate her dyslexia? Yeah, sure.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 54:23
So I ask my daughters every day, and they know it well. I ask them every day, and they've got to answer it. If they don't answer it, there's going to be a problem. I ask them every day, who's the most important person in the room? And it's got to be them because you can't help anyone else until you help yourself first. So for me, it's building that confidence to know that they're in a safe place and that if Pungas fail, whatever it is, whatever the measurements are, metrics are, if you've given your best, it's all that matters. After that, if you've given your best, you can only go up. You can go down too, but if you haven't given your best, and you're honest with yourself, well, then you know where you stand. So I think one of the best moments— I'm going to use you, John, for this story. I've been waiting for this moment, actually. I spoke to Ian about this, but one of the moments, right?
John Milham (Host) · 55:12
I have no idea what you're about to say.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 55:15
I've told the story to you before. I'm sure you'll remember, but I remember being a young 18-year-old. I was 18, 19 years old. I was playing rugby with you, and we'd played fourth grade. Right. So just to give context to everyone listening, second rower, John being prop, right? Wisdom and knowledge on his head there for John and me, inexperienced and youthful and energetic running around the field, right? So we've just played fourth grade. You and I were running on for third grade. To be honest with you, I was struggling out there and I was kind of walking between rocks and moles, not because I was unfit, but because I'd been out the night before and I was hungover, right? But what the moment that sparked in me in that game was, is we're playing, uh, French Forest. You know them well, John.
John Milham (Host) · 56:04
Yeah, yeah.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 56:04
And it was a passionate game, and you ran past me and tapped me on the ass and said, come on, mate. And I, I remember like, one, just in shock, and two, going, how's he passing me? I should be beating him to every place, right? And at that moment then I realized I wasn't having an honest go. I wasn't trying my hardest. I was just going through the motions. And I was like, well, if he can do it, why can't I? And in that mindset, I think in work and in life, it's like you look around yourself, you look around to the people you're working with, it's like, if they can do it, why can't I do it? Like, what's stopping me from having a crack and giving my best self? So Whenever I get up in the morning, I play music. There's things that I do to pump myself up for the day. And by the time I get into work, everyone knows me. If you remember the TV show Cheers with Norm, he'd walk in and say hi to everyone. I make sure every day I walk in and say hi to everyone and everyone says hi back to me. And it's my grounding that I'm in the office and I'm here, I'm here to work. And then I go through my process of, again, I've already set out my notebook of my to-do list, so I'm well prepared. To take on the day. And then come the afternoon, the wheels are spinning.
John Milham (Host) · 57:21
Well, that's donut time, mate. Don't worry about that. There's so much rich encouragement and clues to navigating some challenging stuff that you've shared today, Jay. It's wonderful. I love how you've described every day, what you described about organizing and logistics and so on is almost impossible for me, right, because of my processing challenges. But what I love about it is it is a bit of a, you know, you dig in, you're almost a walking example of resilience and that's really cool. And it's really cool to hear it talked about. What are your favorite things these days, mate?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 58:07
My favorite things these days is I'm a full-time Uber dad driver. I love doing that. I do enjoy being present with my family. So at the moment, I remember when I was in my day of rowing and I was sweeping, I was making grounds, you know what I mean, as a sweep with Cruz. And I did this thing, I read a book somewhere, and yeah, I read this book and it was about doing an audit on your time. 24-hour clock, right? So I sat down one afternoon, I sat down and I was like, you know what, I've been avoiding this for a while, it'd been playing in my head. I was like, you know what, it's going to write— I'm going to do an audit on every minute that I'm accountable. And anyway, I added up everything. I was spending more time at rowing than I was with my family. And, and then the next thing, so after, after rowing, it was work. So I was spending a fair chunk of time with you know, and then after that was sleep.
John Milham (Host) · 59:05
Wow.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 59:06
And then family fell in there down the ranks and I was like, this isn't— this isn't— I can't maintain this pace. Something's got to give. And I realized the thing I had to give up was rowing, which I loved.
John Milham (Host) · 59:18
Yeah.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 59:18
And I gave it. I remember being at the semifinal for the Aussie titles for the junior crew. I'd just spent my voice, not getting too technical. I had the boat set. I was good to go. And I just pushed the bike one step too far, fell in a pothole.
John Milham (Host) · 59:34
Yeah. Wow.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 59:35
Missed the start. And I realized when we got back to the beach, I was like, I'm done. I've done my best. I need to step away from this sport. And then now I focus— like, my outside hobbies is definitely my health and fitness. I'm in my late 40s. I get up every morning and I go to the gym.
John Milham (Host) · 59:52
This is where I go, no, no, you look great. You look great.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 59:55
No, no, no. But in all honesty, for my mental mental health. Um, I realized my mental health was wavering a couple years ago, so I made some adjustments. Fitness was a big thing. Um, with that— and this is where my introvert side comes in, John— when I was rowing, I was an extrovert. You pump everyone up, you get everyone motivated, you give them the confidence to row through the waves. Whereas when I gave that up, I was like, I gotta train for me now.
John Milham (Host) · 1:00:19
Yeah, yeah. Why?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 1:00:21
Yeah. But then I found out that if I put my headphones on, I go to the gym, I do my workout, and I don't speak to anyone. I really enjoy it because it's my time, it's my meditation, it's my Zen place, right? And then so now with working out and with my watching my kids do sport, I enjoy that amazingly. And then I also find this other time, yeah, I've got some close friends that live in my area and, you know, it's catching up, having a beer with him and just laughing a bit. Like, it's the little things, it's really small. Like, it may not seem like much, but I think that connection with a close friend group where you connect. And, you know, it sounds like a really good recipe, mate.
John Milham (Host) · 1:00:59
So, you know, yeah, yeah, maybe you'll get to your 50s after all.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 1:01:04
I don't know, we'll wait and see, John. Like, I think I will.
John Milham (Host) · 1:01:09
I'm—
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 1:01:10
that's what I'm setting myself up for.
John Milham (Host) · 1:01:12
What, um, uh, and finally, uh, it's been great, mate, and, uh, your personal recipe is a great way to, uh sort of wind things up. But I'd like to ask you, what, what aspect of— what recipe do you hope to mix for the community? What, what's your— what's— you mentioned legacy. What, what is the legacy of, uh, that you hope to bring about?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 1:01:36
Yeah, look, um, at this stage, like, my idea of legacy, like, um, is doing the really small things, doing them really well. Yeah, right. But building the foundation there where if I'll step away from it— so like, I'm stepping away from the Access group for SBS at the end of this year, but I'm not stepping away from Access. I'm just not going to be the co-chair. So, but I always believe that you put people in the right place so that if I was to step away at any given time, there's someone else that can take this role and continue on, you know, that group and that organization has got a strong foundation. I was really fortunate enough at Newport Surf Club when I was down there when I first signed up. There's a whole lot of characters down there, but reflecting back on that time period, it was a small club back then at Newport Surf Club, but there was 3 or 4 individual characters. I'm not going to name their names because to bore everyone, but you know who they are. What they did was, is they were just a group of families that got together and just kept the club ticking along. And while they were doing that, they brought other people into the, into the community. And what they did was, is they built this foundation where one of them could step away and someone could take over. And it just was a building block, right, for that community. What I think for Australians is we just need to build more of those foundational footprints around Australia in the voluntary groups, okay, especially where we can build it up so it's a safe place for everyone to be inclusive and everyone can have a go.
John Milham (Host) · 1:03:14
Yeah, fab. I'm with you, mate. I think that's a great idea. I think that's when Australia is at its best, right? So having a go.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 1:03:23
Well, yeah, you know what, like, Australian culture, it's always there. It's not going to go anywhere. And I think in hard times, we see great characters rise to the occasion. And I don't think we're in hard times right now. I think we're just idling. And it's not a bad thing, it's a good thing, right? But I always believe, you know, when the moment comes, there's someone stoically who will stand up to the occasion. And I believe there's many Australians out there that are just waiting for that moment where they've got to stand up and really support the community.
John Milham (Host) · 1:03:56
Beautiful. I'm with you, mate. Thank you so much, Jay. It's been a joy to chat. Really looking forward to the next time. And next time We'll either have a beer or a coffee. So, well, I'll have the coffee, you can have the beer.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 1:04:10
I think, John, we need to do that with some other people involved. Like, I think get some of the old boys together too for that.
John Milham (Host) · 1:04:16
Yeah, well, you know, we've never been as good as we're getting to, you know, next time we meet, mate. So we get better every time we meet later at this time of life.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 1:04:27
Fine wine, we know it well.
John Milham (Host) · 1:04:28
Yeah, I remember just how good we were, right?
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 1:04:33
John, thanks for coming. I've really enjoyed this, mate.
John Milham (Host) · 1:04:35
Mate, thank you, and all the best with the family, um, and, uh, and the work and the mission. Fantastic stuff, brother.
Jay Borthwick (Guest) · 1:04:42
Thanks, mate. You take care. I'll speak to you later.
John Milham (Host) · 1:04:43
Cheers, man. Thank you for listening to this episode of Kintsugi Heroes. Thank you to Colin Lilley for permission to use Broken as our theme music for this series. If you enjoyed this conversation, share the podcast with a friend and let us know by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to support Kintsugi Heroes and the stories we share, head to kintsugiheroes.com.au and follow the instructions to make a tax-deductible donation. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.
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