John Breda · 73 min
A detective sergeant who survived two stab wounds and 18 litres of blood loss during an arrest turned his near-death experience into a mission to save lives through blood donation advocacy.
Hear this story
John Breda grew up in western Sydney wanting to help people. After watching the Anita Cobby case as a teenager, he knew he wanted to join the police. He spent seven years as an electrician first, learning that the best skill in policing was not fighting but talking to people. He joined the force in 1997 and spent 25 years moving through different squads: gang violence in southwestern Sydney, Middle Eastern crime, property crime, and the Child Abuse Squad, where he learned to listen to children and give them power over their own stories.
In 2018, while arresting a wanted sexual offender at a pub in Maroubra on Australia Day, John was stabbed twice with a flip knife. The first wound went through his kidney, ureter, liver, lungs, and diaphragm. Lying on the ground losing blood, he accepted he was dying until the image of his children flashed in his mind. He asked himself what he could control and realised he had his voice. He directed civilians to apply pressure to his wounds. In the hospital, he received transfusions from 100 different blood donors while three trauma surgeons searched for the bleed. A kidney specialist arrived without being called and removed his damaged kidney like removing a car battery.
After 18 litres of blood loss and six hours of surgery, John survived. His recovery took a year of daily work: walking hallways, blowing into bottles to rebuild lung capacity, swimming, rebuilding strength. The police commissioner and assistant commissioner created Bleed4Blue the day after he was hurt, turning his near-death into a blood donation advocacy movement. John retired from the police after 25 years when chronic pain made the work impossible, but he channels his experience into encouraging blood donation and helping others find their way through crisis. He sees his scars as kintsugi, the Japanese art of repairing broken things with gold. The repairs highlight what was broken and make it more valuable.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses abuse & exploitation, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • Blue Knot Foundation (complex trauma): 1300 657 380 · blueknot.org.au • 1800RESPECT (family, domestic & sexual violence): 1800 737 732 · 1800respect.org.au
“I had a good life. I had a good life. I thought about a few things and said I had a good life.”
“do what you can with what you've got where you are”
“you've got to get help and there's no shame in getting help and like I still get help”
The hero, today
John learned early that the ability to communicate and connect with people mattered more than physical toughness, a skill he carried through every rank and specialization in the police. When John was stabbed and facing death on a pub floor, he asked himself what he could control, realized he had his voice, and used it to direct civilians to apply pressure to his wounds. The blood transfusions that kept John alive during surgery came from a hundred different people who gave without knowing who they were saving, and that debt shaped his purpose after recovery. John says that seeing a psychologist and talking openly about the trauma he carried is not weakness; it is part of the work that keeps a person standing, alongside sleep, exercise, good friends, and good leadership. After the injury, John chose to leave the police on his own terms rather than be forced out, because his stubborn refusal to let someone else make that decision was part of what kept him alive in the first place.
Yes. John Breda is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
John learned early that the ability to communicate and connect with people mattered more than physical toughness, a skill he carried through every rank and specialization in the police.
When John was stabbed and facing death on a pub floor, he asked himself what he could control, realized he had his voice, and used it to direct civilians to apply pressure to his wounds.
The blood transfusions that kept John alive during surgery came from a hundred different people who gave without knowing who they were saving, and that debt shaped his purpose after recovery.
John Milham (Host) · 00:05
Welcome back to Kintsugi Heroes, helping people tell the stories they need to share so you can find the stories that you need to hear.
John Breda (Guest) · 00:15
In this episode, John Milham is joined by John Braeder. John grew up in the western suburbs playing footy and working as a sparky before following his dream to join the police. John's career took him through tough streets, specialized squads, and work supporting children and families. In 2018, John faced a life-threatening injury while protecting others. He overcame this challenge by relying on his training, the care of others, and his own determination. Now retired, John shares his experience to encourage blood donation and help others find resilience and purpose after adversity. Ladies and gentlemen, friends of Kintsugi, welcome to another chat, uh, Kintsugi Heroes: Stories That Matter. And a huge kintsugi welcome to a man who, um, has taken, uh, a period of time in his life that was incredibly challenging and, and distressing, and he's turning that into, uh, meaning Purpose and Service. And I suppose service has been the theme of, in many ways, of your life, mate. So welcome to Kintsugi Stories That Matter, John Bretta.
John Milham (Host) · 01:45
Thank you, John, and it's great to be here. And anything that can help someone, and hopefully my— I do these things so people like to listen to stories, and I listen to stories when I got injured, and it does help people, and I hope it does help someone out there.
John Breda (Guest) · 02:00
Yeah, absolutely. And see, that's why I force people to listen to my chicken squawks, right? So, yeah, because I believe that there's something in there that might help, right? So whether it's diluted or not, that's their call. So, John, a quick context, and then I'll ask you to tell us all about yourself. But John, you were in the police force, right? And I think retired in '23 as a detective sergeant. Yes, I did. Yes. And years in the police force. Now you are an ambassador for the Red Cross Lifeblood. And that's a wonderful thing to have on your resume, promote. But of course, it's not just a random choice. As we'll get into later, that's because of lived experience and what you went through as part of your duties in the police force. So, that sounds dramatic, but that's not just you. You started out as a young kid and an apprentice, I think, and stuff like that. So, John, tell us what we need to know to get an idea about who you are.
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John says that seeing a psychologist and talking openly about the trauma he carried is not weakness; it is part of the work that keeps a person standing, alongside sleep, exercise, good friends, and good leadership.
This conversation includes a sparky who wanted to help, learning to talk to people before the badge, the streets of southwestern sydney, the tribe that stays forever, years in middle eastern crime and listening to children after abuse.
John Milham (Host) · 03:18
Yeah, look, I was just a kid that Grew up in the western suburbs near Parramatta. Beautiful. As a kid in the '80s, teenager, went to school, played footy, all me mates. I didn't get into too much trouble. Then I left school, joined as an electrician. Wasn't prepared to join the cops. I always wanted to be a police officer, just wasn't ready.
John Breda (Guest) · 03:41
Is that something that you're like, is it a calling, do you think? Like a lot of cops Because it's not an easy profession to jump into.
John Milham (Host) · 03:49
No, I knew I wanted to be a police officer when I was in high school, right? And I just didn't want to leave straight from school. Yeah, I was still, you know, playing football and I was still doing a few other things, and I wanted to get a trade first. Um, my grandfather was a police officer and he always said to me, get something behind you before you join the cops because something could happen to you. And he used to say that you know, he saw a lot of police leave and never had something to fall back on. And, um, so I thought I'd do a trade and learn a bit of way of life because it's a difficult— policing is communicate, it's all about communication and talking to people. And the best way to do is go to job sites, and that's how you learn how to deal with people. And you're dealing with all different types of different people, which is a great asset when you're about to join the police, because if you can't talk to people, you you're no good in the cops. Absolutely. So that's how I went through that. And after I finished my apprenticeship and finished sort of playing my football, I joined the police in '95. No, sorry, '97. '97.
John Breda (Guest) · 04:53
So you were a sparky?
John Milham (Host) · 04:55
Yes, I was. Yep, did that for 7 years, enjoyed it, learned a lot about different things and how to deal with people on job sites and so forth and bosses. Yeah. And put me in a good position. For when I joined the police. So it was really good to know how to talk to people different. Like when you leave high school, you know, you're suddenly dealing with, you know, as an apprenticeship, you're dealing with blokes who are 50s and they had never spoken before. So you gotta learn fast. Yeah. That was good for me. And I still get a lot of young police asking me what's the best thing I can do before I join the police. Today I still get messages from people and I say learn how to talk to people. Go work at a pub, work at a job site, work, you know, something to do where you deal with people. Sales even, you know, like, yeah, yeah, anything, anything that deals with people, um, before you join the police, and that will give you a good, uh, foundation to move on into the police. And then, yeah, joined in '97, and yeah, I love that bit of advice.
John Breda (Guest) · 06:01
It's in some ways having, you know, in the checkered youth, right, from football and spending a little bit of time in the security or on doors and things, you know, like night manager in a pub. I think the biggest skill was not your ability to fight, but your ability to talk.
John Milham (Host) · 06:23
Yes. Yeah. It's one of the biggest things that you need to do when Yeah. And as I'll go on later on, when I joined through my whole career, never had an issue once until one time. Wow. Wow. Never had a— always was able to talk to people and people were very— once you gain that communication. But just this one time, it was always that one time that something can not go right. And unfortunately, that's what happened to me.
John Breda (Guest) · 06:51
When you joined from school, right, that you'd wanted to join, right? And then wisely, you know, did a gap decade almost, right? But were you coming in with that sense that this is something I want to do to serve the community, or was it something— this is something I want to do to control, or, you know, I like the uniform, or what?
John Milham (Host) · 07:16
I think I always liked helping people and doing something different and having that sense of— I remember as a kid seeing I was in year— I think I was in year 8 in 1986 when the Nina Kobi murder. And I think that just was such a big thing back then in the '80s, and it was really highlighted on news. And I remember seeing it going, oh, I wish I could do something about that.
John Breda (Guest) · 07:43
Yeah, wow.
John Milham (Host) · 07:44
And I think those sort of things, a lot of people today when they see something on the news or they see a story hits them hard and they think, I wish And I followed that story for so long on the news as a kid, and I was just like, I wish I could do something to help. And the only way to do that is in the future, it's like, I'll join the police. I can do something to help somebody. And I think that was a big thing that changed for me. And just seeing different stories over time, thinking, I wish I could help those people because you know, they were helpless or vulnerable. Or, and you know, I didn't like, I didn't like bullies at school. We used to have bullies at school and we'd sort of sort them out, our group, if there was a bully at school. So yeah, I didn't like that. So if there was somebody bullying the little kids, we'd go and sort them out and say, stop bullying the little kids. So because you always come from somewhere and we were those little kids and then Later on, we were year 11 and 12, and we'd see these other kids bullying little kids, and it was like, no, you can't do that. So it was sort of, yeah, I didn't like bullies and people that sort of preyed on people.
John Breda (Guest) · 08:58
It's like the Dexter of the, you know, of Parramatta High, right?
John Milham (Host) · 09:03
So I'm Corry Boys High.
John Breda (Guest) · 09:05
Yeah, nice. Um, yeah, I love that. And of course, um, Anita Cobby, you know, that was around that area as well, so I would have felt like a local. In Sydney.
John Milham (Host) · 09:18
So yeah, so it was very— it was something that everybody knew about. And from that I was like, I'm going to join the police. And then I just knew, um, from then that's what I wanted to do. Wow.
John Breda (Guest) · 09:32
When you got in, you went through, you know, Goulburn, I assume?
John Milham (Host) · 09:36
Yeah, yeah, it went down to Goulburn in, uh, the chilly months of, uh, 1997. It was very cold. And went through my 6 months training Um, it was really— had a great time down there, it was really good. And then moved into— graduated and went to Campsie LAC.
John Breda (Guest) · 09:53
Wow. So jumping on, um, on the— onto the roster and, you know, working nights on the beat or, you know, on the road, was it— was it an eye-opening experience?
John Milham (Host) · 10:09
Oh yeah, it was. Just every day, just as a pro coming to work and just seeing different— very, very violent crime back then too in the Punchbowl, Belmore, Wylie Park. You know, we boarded Bankstown. There was a lot of gang violence and shootings, and there was a lot going on. You know, kneecappings. It was an eye-opener to be a young constable running around there thinking you know, a bit naive, a bit naive having to deal with these people. And, um, yeah, it was definitely an eye-opener. And, you know, I was there when— I wasn't at the station at the time, but it was my team that got shot at when Lakemba Police Station, right? Yeah, yeah.
John Breda (Guest) · 10:51
Wow. Yeah, crikey.
John Milham (Host) · 10:52
Yeah, that was my team members. Um, I was working that night, uh, so yeah, but they were my team members. And yeah, so it was a lot I learned a lot. I learned a lot about southwestern Sydney. And in saying that, there's so many good people out there too. Like, yeah, I'm probably as people as well.
John Breda (Guest) · 11:12
I'm interested in how do you stay positive about humanity when you're on that side where you're actually sort of rushing towards the challenging bits of it, right?
John Milham (Host) · 11:27
You know, yeah, it's, it's, I suppose you're a bit, when you're young you don't think of those things. Um, when you're in your 20s you just want to go in and help and you don't think of the consequences, um, until probably later on in life when you have kids. So you sort of just go in, you know, at border gate. So yeah, but then like you meet a lot of different types of people and interesting characters and good people too. But there's a lot of good people here too, you know, which is stories you don't hear about. Yeah, you know, the good people that you do meet, um, and want to help the place as well.
John Breda (Guest) · 12:05
I always think, um, like personally, you know, I feel like, uh, now I've learned to test myself to try and be a better bloke. At the time, as a young guy, I was like, you know, the world was about me. And like, as long as I got, you know, you know, my time and, you know, a decent footy game and, you know, like mates and, you know, stuff. Um, how do you— like, is, is it's that idea of being of service to community, does that change you as a bloke? Is that like, is that like the highest expression of being a, a good guy, or does it wear off?
John Milham (Host) · 12:40
Yeah, I mean, I think people serve in a lot of different ways. Um, like I was, I was going to join the military. Um, I did think highly— if I couldn't get in the police, I was going to join the military. Um, you know, and, and fireys. And I mean, I wasn't probably smart enough to be an AMBO, but just that whole service area, yeah, uh, was something I definitely wanted to do. And, you know, the military came close, and I admire the military and everyone who works in it because they just, you know, what these guys go through is, you know, is next level. So I just, you know, total respect for anyone who worked in the military. But yeah, that was my two. It was either one of those, but the police got my ticket. So I did that way. And I just, yeah, I think there's something in it. It's a noble, very noble to serve, I think. And it's something where you have a good— you make a lot of good friends. In what you're doing. Mates forever in life. And I still talk to a lot of different people that I used to work with and know. So yeah, it's something that's very— there's a lot of honor in it, I think, too. And it's hard to— once you're out, it's hard to leave.
John Breda (Guest) · 13:58
I love that the word honor rings very true to me in these calls, like men, and obviously men and women, of course. But, you know, from my foe, just the idea that men respond to the tribe they find in that, right? And that tribe becomes very important. How does that— is that like you mentioned, you've got lifelong friends joining that tribe. Was that— how did that sort of change things for you? It did become more, you know, an aspect of your life that you— it was really, really important?
John Milham (Host) · 14:37
I think the friends that you make, you know, because you look out for each other and, you know, there's people that, you know, but you wouldn't so much be around them. But there's some fellas and women that you too, you meet and just you're friends forever. And it's sort of this bond because you've been working on different shifts or you come across a different job together, even if you come across different jobs together or experiences together, it creates that bond having been in that situation with them. So only you and them have experienced. So it's something that you got to hang on to and keep in contact with the people that were there for you at the time. Yeah. When these things happen.
John Breda (Guest) · 15:23
Yeah, and, um, we'll talk about, you know, the sort of how things grew, grew differently in a second. I just, one last thought about that sort of connection, right? We talk about, you know, you hear about the thin blue line and, you know, how the team and, you know, I've spoken to policemen and, you know, it makes other relationships outside of the force very difficult sometimes. So, you know, um, I wondered if it's a net positive. Do you think it's a good thing.
John Milham (Host) · 15:51
I used to have different groups of friends. So I had my work friends, like my police friends, and then I used to have my old schoolmates. So it was very disconnecting, which I never really used to— when I was not at work, I made sure I didn't talk about work too much because it then becomes overwhelming.
John Breda (Guest) · 16:08
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 16:09
So it was a separation. If I was out with my schoolmates, you know, out for a drink or dinner or whatever, I didn't talk much about work. It was just talk about the football or cricket or whatever was happening. So there was a disconnect. So you've got to switch off, and sometimes people don't switch off from what they're doing because you can't talk about what you did all the time because some of the things you see and do is, you know, it's not the best. So you've got to have that disconnect from— I don't always hang out with police. Like, it's hard when you're always around police because you're talking police stories at the time. Try and disconnect from it, like, and then come back to it. Yeah, give it a timeout. And that's how I think I, you know, survived so well in the police. You've got to have that separation when you're not working. If you're on holidays, you're on holidays. Yeah, you're away. Don't talk about too much, try not to watch too much news and things like that. And, and if you are with police mates, talk about something else. Don't always have to talk about policing. So that's how I sort of saw it.
John Breda (Guest) · 17:10
I think that's a, you know, it's a great coping strategy. Did you learn that, or was that like something you were able to, you know, to work out yourself? It's like, did you have somebody helping you with that?
John Milham (Host) · 17:21
Yeah, I've just got advice from different police when I— as, as, as I went through my career early in the days. He said, if you go home, you know, different police told me different things. Yeah, I always tried to take different good aspects from good police officers. That was good. I'd get that on board. It's like I tell people, you want to be a good police officer, make your own style. Yeah, but take on everyone else's good aspects and then it's your own. Don't try and be someone else, just try and be yourself and do your own, um, be your own person through other people's good aspects and put it together, and that's you. So that's how I saw things.
John Breda (Guest) · 18:00
Knowing who you are is a really important thing for a bloke to make his way in the world. Do you think there was a cost to the job for you emotionally?
John Milham (Host) · 18:12
Yeah, look, some of the people that I knew, I couldn't really— because you can't be friends with guys who, you know, are doing the wrong thing. So yeah, look, I knew some guys who were in different situations, and you just, you know, respectfully, you know, just say, look, you know, Sorry guys. Or if you did see them, just say hello and just move on. And you know, you don't need to make a scene. But it's just, yeah, you don't want to be— you can't mix in the wrong circles because it's just, it's not good for yourself or even good for them or vice versa. So that's just how things were. But that's a small cost. It didn't really, you know, it's not as if my friends were criminals, but just people that I knew in different areas. And it happens. Look, you can't help who your friends are. But yeah, you just got to be careful who you associate with, that's all.
John Breda (Guest) · 19:07
So they talk about— yeah, and that's fair enough. I got to cut it out. I think one of the reasons I left, because you were going to uni, but it was quite useful to have a night job on the door or something. One of the reasons I left was I think, you know, in town, every time you'd walk down the street to go to the shop during the day, the people who were saying hello would be the people your mates would avoid, right? So because you spend your time working with those guys on the job, right, trying to manage the people who are causing trouble rather than the people you wanted to spend time with.
John Milham (Host) · 19:48
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
John Breda (Guest) · 19:50
Um, in terms of that, do you think, um, you know, when you learned to, uh, to switch off, um, and to, to look after yourself, do you think that that was like a— was that a natural capacity of yours, or, you know, was that something you needed to build a capacity in to survive?
John Milham (Host) · 20:16
I think I just did it myself because I think it helped me, so I just continued to do it from the advice I got from different police as a young officer. It's just taking those things on board and what worked, and it's, you know, separation, exercise, trying to eat right, sleep, you know. And it's difficult when you're working night shift to get sleep, especially when you start to get a bit older. It's harder. So you've got to look after yourself, and there's different ways, whatever works for you. And in that separation from the job. And then when you're at the job, you're working and focusing on 100% on what you're supposed to be doing. But when you're not there, you have that separation. I just think I just learned from it and it worked for me. Yeah, that's why I did it.
John Breda (Guest) · 21:04
There's a lot of— like you mentioned earlier, the— your crew, although you weren't there, were shot at it, you know, at the station. And, you know, there's no doubt there's plenty of other moments of, of, you know, threat and fear. Um, how do you switch that off, right? Because, yeah, we, we know that being in threat fight flight all the time is really bad for, for you. You talked about some very basic strategies— exercise, sleep, good nutrition, you know. Um, How did you switch off that sense of constantly being under it?
John Milham (Host) · 21:45
You know, I think, I think when you're younger, you can take more, I think, because you're not, you're not, you're not experienced in what's actually happened. Whereas I think as you get on, on in life, it'd probably be more, you'd be more worried, especially if you had kids. And like, I know my life changed when I had children. It's just, yeah, Things change the way you look at things and the way you operate. But when I was just a young constable at Campsie, it was— you're sort of fearless. Yeah, it's— and that's how all police are when they're sort of young. You sort of don't realize what's happening until something happens. And but yeah, I mean, you always, always doing the right thing, but it's just Yeah, you just sort of see things differently when you're younger. That's how I see it. So you sort of could take on those, like you get— I mean, I remember once we had a gun pointed at us and we didn't exchange fire because they ran away. But I just remember thinking at the time, but then after I didn't think anything of it.
John Breda (Guest) · 22:51
Yeah. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 22:53
Wow. Yeah. You know, we didn't think anything of it at the time, but probably later on in life after 10, 15 years, I probably would have felt differently about it. But when you're a 3, 4-year constable, you don't think anything of it. It's just—
John Breda (Guest) · 23:05
yeah. Okay, well, I, I, I'll take your word for that because it's not something I, I feel like I need to test, right?
John Milham (Host) · 23:13
So no, no, you don't.
John Breda (Guest) · 23:16
Wow. So given, uh, as you move through the ranks, you, you change from being, you know, on the beat and then Unifilm, and then you took on some pretty tough work. Yep.
John Milham (Host) · 23:29
Yeah.
John Breda (Guest) · 23:30
Yep. How did, like, you know, all of the strategies you learned to manage, you know, uh, you know, threats and violence and so on, did that make it easier to do stuff that was like, would just curl the hair of most people?
John Milham (Host) · 23:46
Yeah, I think, I think as you, as the more you work in the police and the jobs that you do, the different variety of different jobs help you later on in life because You know, I went, I worked at Middle Eastern Crime for 4 or 5 years, and that was, I enjoyed doing that work, and it was very, very different type of work. It was, you know, what used to go on in that people just don't know about and see. And, you know, I used to deal with sources, which were people that tell police information because I had a good rapport with people, and they were criminals themselves, a lot of these people. And you just had to have a professional sort of a relationship with them. And you end up sort of, you know, you're not friends, but you end up having confidence because you're with them all the time. You end up having these, you start talking about different things and home life, and they know who you are and what you do.
John Breda (Guest) · 24:46
So you humanize them.
John Milham (Host) · 24:47
Right? Yeah, you start to humanize, and then, you know, and majority of them, they just get caught up in the wrong— they get— always say these people, there's— you see all these gang violence, the people that started off, started off as quick dollar, and it escalates, escalates, escalates, and they get caught up and they can't escape, and it's just the way they have to live now. Yeah. And that's just who they are, and that's what happens, and it's hard to get out of. And that's how they are. And unfortunately, you know, and a lot of the guys that I've, you know, that I've— you see these guys dead on, die on TV. I've met them, I've spoken to them, and I was just— and they knew, and they know the outcome. Yeah, they all say it. We used to say to them, well, you know what's going to happen eventually. It may not be tomorrow or next week or next year or maybe 5 years. You know what the outcome is. And they all sort of know, and they just say, well, that's the way I've got to live. And I say, well, that's your game. So they have a choice and they know what goes on. And that's just— and meox was a good experience, but then I had enough. It was a lot of long hours, and I learned a lot from it, and then it was time to move on.
John Breda (Guest) · 26:06
Yeah. And, you know, you were working with some challenging and dangerous people in some ways.
John Milham (Host) · 26:16
Oh yeah, yeah. Like gun crime and trying to collect guns and people who had guns. So it was, yeah, you had to be— and having all that experience that I did at Campsie and in the LAC work was very helpful for me there too, about you know, um, about gun crime and so forth. So yeah, it was, it was very challenging, very scary. Like, I've been to jobs where people have been shot and, you know, and arresting people with guns and so forth. So it was, you know, and no one had ever been injured, which was really good in our, you know, there was one incident at Meox, but, um, people were killed, but Um, it unfortunately does happen, and that's the consequences of this type of work that we used to do.
John Breda (Guest) · 27:03
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 27:04
And then I'd left and I moved on, and then I got my team leader spot as a sergeant at Leichhardt in property crime and learned about property crime there. And then I moved on to the Child Abuse Squad. I got a team leader spot there, but again, different type of work. From Middle Eastern work to dealing with children. So it was— I like to learn different things. You got to move around the place. And child abuse was something I hadn't done before, and it looked very rewarding. And I did enjoy working there and helping kids and families.
John Breda (Guest) · 27:42
Very different focus, right, from the kind of, you know, I liked how you described you know, the slowly the humanization of the criminals, right? They were still doing bad things, but they were not necessarily terrible people. You know, they had really bad choices and behaviors sometimes, right?
John Milham (Host) · 28:04
Yeah, that's pretty much it.
John Breda (Guest) · 28:06
But there's another, you know, like it's much more difficult to, you know, respond to people who are hurting children. That must have been a—
John Milham (Host) · 28:17
Oh, it's different ball game. Yeah, like, it's, it's so different from like a person who was selling drugs or gun crime to someone who's property crime.
John Breda (Guest) · 28:28
You're there looking, you know, investigating a burglary, and now, you know, you focus and your victims are there. They must— it must have been an emotional roller coaster.
John Milham (Host) · 28:39
Oh, look, when I was— child abuse was definitely something different and to take on And the people that work there are amazing, that work in child abuse. And, you know, it's something that doesn't get spoken enough about, is child sexual offenses, because it's— no one wants to know about it, no one wants to talk about it, no one wants to— you know, it's just something you never see it on the news hardly, unless it's, um— but it happens every day, it happens every day in the courts. You get out of our courts at District Court in Sydney, 60% of the courts in there are child abuse matters. And, you know, we have special courts for it and we have special judges and prosecutors and systems that are in place to help young people to give evidence. So it's a very, you know, it was nothing having to help a child and their family because, you know, you got to guide the family as well. And I still know some people that I still speak to today that I've stayed in contact with, and they've grown up now and they're quite moving on with their lives. And it's quite— and I learned a lot from kids about what happened to them that helped me, from watching them and give the way they used to speak and how they used to react when they used to speak to us and And I always tell the story that when we learnt how to do child interviews, when a kid used to come in and you'd speak to them and you'd say, ah, when we got taught this concept of when a child comes in, you're helping them by taking the story of what happened to them and you put it on a shelf. And we put it on a shelf and this is how we used to say it, we put it on a shelf and it sits on the shelf and we've taken the story from them. And that's— and that helped me a lot too in my own version of what happened to me, is to take the story and put it away and put it on the shelf, and then we'll deal with it now. And then they used to— it was a system that worked, um, and that's how we used to deal with children a lot. And, and whether we took the— whether they wanted to go forward with the crimes to take it to court or just wanted to talk about it. Yeah, um, that's how we sort of went about investigating-wise, is the power's to them. If they want to continue, they have the power. So we give them the power over the perpetrator, um, or if they didn't want to take it forward, and that's totally understandable, that's fine. They can take— come back in a couple of years. Yeah, if they're a bit coming out, you know, they might be, you know, a lot of kids going through different trauma and so forth, can't face that court which is a daunting experience. But this is the systems we have. And it was very— the people I work with there are amazing. And I really enjoyed working with families and kids. It's different work. It was just— and I've said it before and I'll say it again, the people that work in these areas, as in detectives, are the best detectives. Because how you deal with, talk to children is way different to how you talk to adults. And you learn these new skills, how to interview, and they end up being the best interviewers for interviewing adults as well.
John Breda (Guest) · 32:06
Absolutely. The way you describe it, how you earlier, you learned to separate the person from the behavior. Now you're talking about listening and normalizing and supporting and then putting on the shelf. That's a strategy I've used in coaching and so on. So it sounds to me like you become a wonderful mentor, a wonderful counselor almost, right?
John Milham (Host) · 32:38
So yeah, pretty much like they see you as, you know, kids see you as like their, you know, not probably not as a place holder, but somebody's going to ultimately help them and be there for them and And you used to go and talk to them on the phone and go and see them. And like I said, when a job's finished, some people I still stay in contact with and years later, like 10 years later, which is good to see. And you see that they have moved on in life and they're successful and have been able to get through it. And kids are so much tougher than adults. They're very more resilient. They don't understand what happens to them a lot of the time, whereas adults understand the gravity, whereas children are not— they're different, they're built differently and can, can recover, um, a lot better than an adult because of who they are.
John Breda (Guest) · 33:36
Yeah, I've got a theory, um, comes from, uh, I've generated from talking to a lot of people who have gone through stuff, yeah, as young people, right? So, you know, especially with podcasts, you know, where people share and that we know they've come through and some of them have, you know, have dealt with horrendous stuff and they've, you know, they're making their way, as you said, they're getting on with life. And I think it's because at the point where, you know, the trauma's happened, right? But then someone offers a real counterpoint. Someone who becomes trustworthy, um, builds a loving or a caring relationship, and then supports and helps that child accept what's happened, right? And that seems to make an enormous difference in the long run to how that child processes.
John Milham (Host) · 34:35
Yeah, yeah.
John Breda (Guest) · 34:36
So in some ways, you're first responder, not just to the crime but to the care.
John Milham (Host) · 34:43
Exactly. It's like, what can they control? Yeah.
John Breda (Guest) · 34:46
Okay.
John Milham (Host) · 34:46
Yeah, it's what— don't worry about what you can't control, what can they control? And that's— and again, it's all this stuff that I— all this lead up, you know, especially the things I used to do with Jodie, you know, what can they— they can control what happens afterwards. Yeah. Like, they, they have the power.
John Breda (Guest) · 35:00
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 35:01
And then having to, you know, like you said, the different characters, and then having to deal with the Child sexual offenders is so— they're very— it's totally different to dealing with people from other different crimes. Very, how do you say it, dark.
John Breda (Guest) · 35:19
With, um, did this, um, path of yours, did it make you, um, a better father?
John Milham (Host) · 35:29
Oh, more, more protective. Yeah.
John Breda (Guest) · 35:32
Did you offer that same caring conversation to your kids?
John Milham (Host) · 35:40
Yeah, I used to use a lot of the techniques and interviewing with my kids about open-ended questions and things like that. So I still do today.
John Breda (Guest) · 35:58
My boys, that I'd be in the car and I'd ask them a couple questions and one would lean over and say, don't try that coaching stuff on us. The, um, I read a book, uh, by the, uh, FBI profiler, and he, he started the book by, by walk— they were— he was at a fair with his, like, a sideshow with his, um, child. And, uh, he started— they were walking along and he saw someone and, uh, he tracked that person, right? And, um, and pointed it out to their— to his child and said, look at that man, that man is someone you need to avoid, right? Okay. And I, I was just wondering, is that— does that be like you mentioned, protective? Is that part like, is that, you know, are you educating your kids or are you being the wall?
John Milham (Host) · 36:56
Or, you know, yeah, no, I always say, look, kids are always, kids are very aware of what they know, their gut feeling. And I said, always go with your gut feeling. If it's not right, then it's not right.
John Breda (Guest) · 37:08
So validating their sense of intuition.
John Milham (Host) · 37:10
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And majority of the time, because when you speak to kids, they knew it wasn't right, but I say to my kids is if you feel that it's not right, then it's not right. Yeah. And then if even if they're not doing the wrong— like, they're not going to do wrong at the end of the day, you've saved yourself. And for future, yeah, events, that's— your gut feeling is normally the right one.
John Breda (Guest) · 37:32
That's good.
John Milham (Host) · 37:32
I said go, go with that, and you avoid these type of scenarios and people. And yeah, all the child protective areas, like, covered with them and So yeah, so it's, you know, as any father and mother would do. So yeah, just a little bit extra knowing what, how things work.
John Breda (Guest) · 37:50
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always found that kind of, you know, challenging to think, right? It's like, it's useful, but like you start to look at, you know, is it, does it put a dark cloud on the rest of the world?
John Milham (Host) · 38:06
Oh, look, you know, there's nothing wrong with being vigilant in that area instead of being too relaxed. And then that's when things happen. And that's how I've seen— I've seen things happen like that because people just don't have any form of awareness. You have some form of filter.
John Breda (Guest) · 38:24
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 38:25
And if I'm wrong, well, then I'm wrong. But at the end of the day, if it saves my kid and other kids, then so be it.
John Breda (Guest) · 38:31
Yeah, absolutely. And of course, it was in that space. You mentioned earlier that you'd gone through all of these challenging scenarios and potential dangerous situations and had emerged safe and well. And it was only after— it was in one of these final things where you actually encountered some self-trauma, right? Where you were—
John Milham (Host) · 39:00
Yeah. Well, I was working in a team where we were assisting another CAS, another child abuse unit, and we sort of were an on-call team. This is back in 2018, and myself and my two colleagues, Tim and Ben, became aware of a fella who was wanted in relation to some very serious sexual assaults. And He'd been on the run and he'd also made a number of different threats to the child and the mother about wanting to kill them as well because of, you know, he became aware that, you know, she had gone to the police. So there was fears for the family's safety as well. So we were helping them and we became aware on the day where he was through an informant that I'd been able to speak to that morning. So it wasn't actually our job, so it wasn't— we didn't know a lot about information, or we knew that this guy hadn't been arrested for these horrendous offenses. And, um, we were able to scramble— it was Australia Day, and we were able to scramble the team. And it was at Maroubra— he was at Maroubra Pub, and he was only going to be there for a very short time. A very short time to meet this informant that we had, and because he was on the run and no one could find him, and people had been searching for him. And, um, anyway, the informant— I got speaking with the informant, and he was going in the pub, and we had to— and Rue was the closest place if you're in, you know, western or northern Sydney. So to get down there, and then suddenly he's gonna leave very soon. So we got there, so it was— there was no time to to get uniform. We had to just, you know, we couldn't survive. There's so many— I've got to make all— on the team later, so I'm going to make so many decisions on the run. That's what do we do? This guy— and because this guy, if he gets— if we lose him and he's going to go and kill his family, what, we're gonna— we're gonna wear this? So we had to make a decision. So it was, we go in. So we went in, and that was probably the the most relieving part was that we had him, so we knew that this family weren't going to be harmed now. So that was the most thing. And then, you know, we went in to arrest him, and little did we know that he was proficient in knife crime and knife skills, and he did have a knife on him. And I During the arrest, I got stabbed twice. Then after that, I won't go too much into it, but then the offender was— he was shot and killed with the assistance of my two colleagues in that pub bar. I was— I got two stab wounds on each side of my torso, just below the ribs. Um, with a— I think it was a, um, a 7-centimeter knife, flip knife, um, like a one of those flip knives that you, you can flip out. Um, so he got me twice, um, on the left, on the right, and the right-hand side, it was the first one. Um, It went in and it went through everything. It went through— I've got a list— went through my— it went through my— I've got the doctor's report— it went through my kidney, my ureter, my liver, my lungs, and my diaphragm.
John Breda (Guest) · 42:54
Wow.
John Milham (Host) · 42:55
So the knife went through all those things, the first one, and the second one went through nothing. Didn't even It went in but didn't hit anything. So, um, yeah, but that first one that got me went in deep and hard, and it cut, cut my, um, kidney down in the middle.
John Breda (Guest) · 43:12
There's a lot in that, what, what you just said, that sounds important to continuing, you know, going along well.
John Milham (Host) · 43:19
So that must be going along as in moving your body along. Yes. So, um, after, because after it happened, I remember Yeah, backed away and pushed away, and all the commotion had finished. And I sat down and I was like, you know, you think about what happened because everything— all this happens, yeah, like within 3 seconds from go to away, like it's ended. Like, it's just like you blink, it all just happened so fast. And it's like, what happened then? It's like— and then, yeah, you look down and all of a sudden there's commotion going on. There's bodies on the ground, there's other police and, you know, yelling instructions, and you're trying to get on the radio to call for help. And I just sat down and just— yeah, and like, having been to so many jobs before in the past, you know, people get stabbed and you don't survive stabbing in the stomach, let alone two. Yeah, so I was like, oh, you know, I could feel it, just the blood and coming out, and I could just feel that it was all just wrong. And it just sat down, I went, okay, I'm gonna die now. Um, so I just— it's time to die. And then I just said, just sat back down and said, you know, I had a good life. I had a good life. I thought about a few things and said I had a good life.
John Breda (Guest) · 44:45
And that's it. So you seriously, that was where you went? Not I'm scared or, you know, I regret whatever.
John Milham (Host) · 44:54
No, I was just like sat down on a little step and said, okay, I'm going to die now. And just lay back and then thought about a couple of things and just sort of shut my eyes and said, okay, I'm happy. Yeah, I'm happy. Just this. I had a good life. I was like, that's why I said I had a good life and I saved this family. I knew that he was done. My job was done. And then as I lay there, something just clicked inside me. I saw my kids. Yeah, I saw my kids. And then I just sat up and went, righto, right, what are we going to do? Wow. What can I do? And I always remember a saying I read somewhere because I'd always been interested in the military and, you know, it said do what you can with what you've got where you are. Yeah. And what did I have? I had my voice. I had my voice so I could do something with my voice. Couldn't get up, couldn't move. Yeah. So I decided, okay, what did I need? I've been at stabbings before. I was like, I need blood, I need pressure.
John Breda (Guest) · 46:04
Yeah, you need someone to stop. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 46:06
And so I'm looking around, I'm on the ground, I'm like, and there's a guy came through the door a patron or the manager, and he came through and I said, come over here, mate, I need pressure on my wounds. I'm a police officer, I've been stabbed. So I got him over and I said, just push hard, push hard. And luckily he came to the right-hand side first and he just put his whole body on my torso and just kept pressure on the wound. And then another guy, same thing. I said, come on, put pressure. And then two guys, these two guys, just, you know, big guys just pushing down on me and it I felt all right. I felt fine. Like, I was just lying on the ground. And then later on, I found out the adrenaline was rushing, so I felt quite, um, I felt good. I felt okay. Um, you weren't—
John Breda (Guest) · 46:53
it wasn't crushing pain or nothing? No. Wow.
John Milham (Host) · 46:58
No, because they've been putting so much pressure, I felt absolutely no, um, didn't feel any pain. He, when he The only time I felt pain is when the ambos got there and he released.
John Breda (Guest) · 47:10
Oh, that—
John Milham (Host) · 47:10
I could— then I felt it. Then I felt it.
John Breda (Guest) · 47:13
When they should have given you the whistle first up, mate.
John Milham (Host) · 47:15
So yeah, they gave me no whistle. They just threw me straight on the gurney because the ambos were really close. They were around the corner and saw there'd been some sort of commotion, so they were there really fast. Um, and so they whisked me away into the ambo and took me to St Vincent's Hospital. And I'm on the way to St Vincent's Hospital, which is about 20 minutes. And later on I read that they were going to go to Prince of Wales. They didn't know which hospital to go to, like, because you get directed. And they said— they would say— somebody said, you've got to go to St Vincent's.
John Breda (Guest) · 47:49
Because yes, that'd be my choice.
John Milham (Host) · 47:53
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No disrespect to Prince of Wales. It's like, if I'd gone there, mate, St. Vincent's.
John Breda (Guest) · 48:00
Ah mate, that's the place. If you've been stabbed, that's where you go, right?
John Milham (Host) · 48:05
Yeah, yeah, go to St. Vincent's. So I went to St. Vincent's, they took me to St. Vincent's. I remember the ride in and all the, and the ambos doing their business and speaking to them and talking to them and asking me questions. And then we got to the hospital and I just remember getting wheeled in and I can't remember anything after that. Um, but yeah, then they performed a 6-hour— there was— I was there for 6 hours under the—
John Breda (Guest) · 48:34
in theater.
John Milham (Host) · 48:34
Yeah. Well, first of all, the, the poor old registrar, like, he was in— he was on the phone straight away. I need help. Someone needs to come and help me here. I'm— yeah, I don't know what to do, basically, you know. And all the specialists came in, and being a public holiday, none of them were there, so they all had to drive in. And so they were trying to keep me alive because I was losing so much blood. Yeah. Correct.
John Breda (Guest) · 48:58
Because my kidney artery is severed, right?
John Milham (Host) · 49:01
So I've got a major artery and a kidney that's still trying to work and blood is just flowing out of me. So the doctors came in. So I had all the major doctors come in to come in and help me. I had a cardiothoracic surgeon, Emily Granger. I had Dr. Grabs, who's a trauma surgeon. Rowan Gett, another trauma surgeon. And they were trying to find the bleed and couldn't find the bleed underneath my kidneys. There was a urinary— they couldn't find where the bleed was. And this is over time. I'm losing a lot of blood. I think I lost vicinia, about 18 liters of blood.
John Breda (Guest) · 49:49
Mate, you don't. That's like, that's, that's, that's all the blood is going out, right?
John Milham (Host) · 49:55
Yeah, so blood was coming in. Yeah, we only have 5 liters, so I was just living on other people's blood, um, basically for the, for the 6 hours during the operation. And so whilst— and then, um, Dr. Raj Kuna, who's a kidney doctor, um, And I saw about this because he sees it on TV and then he says, oh, maybe they might need my help. So he decides to drive in just off his own back, drives into the hospital and then they ring him and say, you need to come in, this guy's going to die, we need your help. And he goes, well, I'm here at the hospital. So he's like within 30 seconds of phone call, he's in there and he also gets advised, okay, by the professor who's there. Take the kidney out. So he takes the kidney out like it's a car battery, you know, just take the kidney out. But you've got— the thing is, with your kidney, you've got all these major arteries, femoral, everything, yeah, everywhere to your heart. And if you don't get it right— and that's why the other doctors couldn't do it, because they're not a kidney doctor. Only a kidney doctor who's a surgeon can take out your kidney. Because it's so technique, it's so difficult with all these different arterial lines. And so he takes my kidney out and they find the bleed and patch me back together. And 6 hours later and 196 bags of blood products later, they patch me up and they leave me for 24 hours with packing. So they didn't put me back together. And when I saw your thing, kintsugi, that's what I look like. I look like a kintsugi pot.
John Breda (Guest) · 51:43
Wow, you've been stitched back together with the glue.
John Milham (Host) · 51:46
I've been put back. So the following day they put me back together. So I've got this big line down the front of your body from your top to below your belt and across to your back of your ribs. And all these other little incisions everywhere. So I'm the kintsugi. That's, that's me. That's what my body looks like, a kintsugi pot. So that was very— and, you know, I had this, and I wrote this thing out. It says— this was a, you know, someone who wrote a book about kintsugi, and it says, rather than trying to hide the damage, kintsugi highlights the repair.
John Breda (Guest) · 52:22
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 52:23
And that's, that's what, that's what my body looks like.
John Breda (Guest) · 52:26
So beautiful scars, right? So yeah, and Kintsugi is the idea that the scars create not something new but something more, right?
John Milham (Host) · 52:37
Yes.
John Breda (Guest) · 52:37
What you've described is an incredible situation, both the action that led to it and then the repair and recovery. And of course, incredible rehab after that and relearning things. So what more has been added to your life?
John Milham (Host) · 52:56
Oh, well, basically value everything that you have and that you do every day because, you know, I see things differently. I don't worry about the BS in the world and you live for today and what you have because life is short. Life is very short. And every day I have since then is a bonus because I shouldn't be here. Not, you know, I always— and I get that sort of survivor guilt because, you know, I see people getting stabbed on TV all the time and they don't survive. And for some reason I did survive. And I try to, try to be a good person and try to help. And then having been put back together and it took, you know, they cut my chest open and luckily and And the doctors say if I wasn't a fit person at the time, I wouldn't have survived. And it took me so long to recover. Like, I couldn't— I remember the first night because I was in ICU for 4, 5 days and I was out for 4. And I remember waking up in ICU and just on some serious heavy drugs and fentanyl and ketamine and and just looking down and just looking at what happened to me and just like it was all a bit surreal and having to— and then I remember lying in the bed on the first night and I woke up and I couldn't even move and my pillow was there and I couldn't even adjust my own pillow because I had so many lines and drains and everything that was inside me. Couldn't even move and then every day just something new, build on something new. Like today, we're going to sit in a chair, right? That was, that was day one. And then the next thing was try and stand up and take a step. And just every day was something new. And, and, and then I got out of ICU, and I remember one of the doctors came to see me, and yeah, I was, I was in so much pain, and drugs and and he came to see me and the doctor said, Dr. Grabs, he comes in and he says, you're going to be fine, you're going to get back to where you were, he said. And I was like, that sort of instilled in my mind, I was like, right, there's hope. Yeah, yeah, because you're going to be where you were before, you're going to be walking, you're going to be running, you're back at the gym, you're going to be able to do everything that you did before. Wow. And I went, righto, okay. And that sort of got me that bit of hope. And then every day I'd be walking down the hallways of the hospital and every day getting stronger and doing my rehab and blowing in a bottle because half my lungs weren't working. And just every day. And then I lost a ton of weight and I lost all my strength. And just lost everything I had. I just lost— I had to now rebuild it over basically a year. And then slowly, slowly, then I got home, and then it was just walking to the house next door, then the next house, and slowly walking and just getting strength. And then started swimming. And, and it was all that stuff I'd learned before about, you know, take one day at a time to get yourself better. Just one day every day. And you know, I used to tell people this, you know, when I used to work, just take— and now I do it. It's just, okay, what can I control? I can control my health, I control what I do. What can I control? I can control how I'm going to get better and how I'm— and the biggest thing I think was, got to have— was, and I was— biggest thing in the cops is attitude, and I had the right attitude.
John Breda (Guest) · 56:43
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 56:44
So I had the attitude to get this done one day at a time and was back in the gym, back swimming. And then a year later, I got my strength back. Yeah, I was— I've still got pain, like I still have a lot of pain from the hospital. They put mesh in me and I got internal stitches and I lost my kidney and everything else was repaired. And I'm on— I don't take any drugs or anything. Oh wow. Yeah, I take painkillers just to knock off the edge of it because it gets really tight. But I'm— yeah, then when I eventually got better, you know, my bosses were really good. And that's at that time they created, probably the day after I got hurt, which is probably the biggest aspect of what I'm involved in now, is they created the Bleed for Blue. A lot of people don't know where the bleed for blue come from, and this is how it all started because I used so much blood.
John Breda (Guest) · 57:46
Yeah, you took the whole city's reserves there for a while.
John Milham (Host) · 57:49
They did. Well, they had to go— they took the whole hospital's reserve and then they had to go to the blood bank stalls down at Zetland.
John Breda (Guest) · 57:59
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 57:59
So they had to get more. So because I used so much blood that the following day the Commissioner at the time and Dave Hudson, the Assistant Commissioner, they all got involved and all went and gave blood and got it going and started the Bleed4Blue, which then rolled into the Emergency Services blood donation drive. So all this is— and something so terrible has created this great advocacy for lifeblood and giving back. And I go to sessions all the time with Lifeblood and the Bleed4Blue and emergency services, and I'm speaking with Lifeblood and I go to different events and promote and get people to give blood. And when I hear people say, I gave blood for the first time because I heard your story, I was like, you know, that's what I want to hear when people give blood for the first time and continue to give blood and get other people to give blood. Because if these people hadn't given the blood, I wouldn't be here today, because that blood kept me alive. These, you know, 100 bags of different, different people. That's 100 different people that have given blood, took time out of their day.
John Breda (Guest) · 59:15
Yeah, without thinking about exactly what they were doing. Like, they didn't have a picture of your face. They just—
John Milham (Host) · 59:21
who is it going to save? Well, it saved me. And, and I tell that story because I'd never given blood before, and I feel— and I'm not ashamed to say that, but I feel embarrassed that I never did. But now I get people from— I go to Goulburn and speak to the students and they all give blood, and I go around speaking to different organizations and they can encourage people getting blood. And there's so many other advocates for Lifeblood, but it's always good to have that, especially in winter. It gets— depletions, the blood volume goes down because of different reasons. And it's always so many different people need it. It's just, it's a thing that can never stop. No, just got to, you got to keep on doing it. And I can't, you know, advocacy work for that is something that now I'm heavily involved in because I did come back to work eventually. I was stubborn and said, no, I'm going back to work. And I came back to work. And then I worked on some jobs and successful jobs and did a couple of things. And but then it wasn't— it didn't feel the same. And then after a while, the pain was just too much. And, you know, I said, yeah, with my head as well. So, you know, I was seeing a psychologist and I was just— I had really high vigilance. And so it was just too much. And you got to know when you're It was like football. You got to know when to call it. Yeah. And you know when it's no longer there. And as much as I loved it, I wasn't doing myself a favor or anyone else a favor. And I just had to call it a day after 25 years and an amazing career.
John Breda (Guest) · 1:01:02
So, you know, almost the— what comes to mind for me is that, like, you're a perfect person to be a policeman, right? Your mindset was in— was the right place. You had that right mix of physical and mental toughness, right? When we talk about resilience, and often Kintsugi heroes tell stories that is so often about resilience, right? And you're showing that resilience, right? Not, not that you're impervious to pain, but that when pain comes, you, you were cool enough and capable enough to handle that moment in a successful way. Does that feel like, you know, like when I say you're the perfect person, you know, like you're now the perfect person to go out and be an advocate, right? Because that lived experience is so powerful, the story. Does that feel like, like it was, you know, it was okay to go through as it was?
John Milham (Host) · 1:02:00
Like, you know, yeah, look, I think I wonder what I would be doing now if I didn't know this didn't happen and But yeah, it sort of feels like that it was like, I think if it happened earlier in my career, I don't think I would have coped as well. But having experienced a lot of things in my life and different aspects of people and all the different areas that I've worked in the police, I think that helped me. Because, you know, it was a big thing I always just say on the police is attitude. A lot of people have come and spoken to me about attitude, because I've spoken to people about attitude and facing adversity. It does make you, going through hell that I did, and sometimes I feel embarrassed about what happened and to other people's stories and hear other people's things that happened to them, then I feel bad because I'm walking around and But people don't see the scars that I have and the pain that I have. I still have bad days and I still— and for men, it's very frowned upon. You see a psychologist? Yes, I do. Yes. And unfortunately, recently I've had people that I know that have taken their life. And this is something that we've got to talk about. You've got to get help, and there's no shame in getting help. And like, I still get help, and I still talk to people, and I still do the right things. And it's all that— it's everything is a— it's not just one thing, and that's what people don't see. It's not just one thing, it's put everything together, and then it does help you. Keeping it, you know, doesn't matter what health level you're at, it doesn't matter if you just walk around the block just do something, read something, like do something for yourself, have good friends. It's all these little things that you put together. And, you know, I had good friends in the police, and that's what helped me when I got hurt. And I got good support from my bosses and Commissioner Fuller and Dave Hudson and Mal Lanyon. All these people helped me when I got hurt. And this is what leaders are for. You know, I was a team leader to help my troops. But they were above me and they helped me through my storm. And that's what good leaders are. And you need good leadership, then people see that. And I think at the end of the day, when you can see all these things and doing the right things and get help if you need help. And that's, you know, I'm telling this story to you today because there's so many people need help. And if there's one little thing, you know, I get phone calls and messages all the time from different people. Oh, can we have a coffee? And, you know, they might be going through some hard times. A lot of police I go out and have coffee with and been through different incidents, and I was going to have coffee with them and see what I can do for them. And, um, yeah, I don't tell anyone or say anything to anybody, and it's just, you know, privately. Or I send a text message to people, see how people going, and because when you stop that communication, it's hard to keep in contact with everyone because I know a lot of people and it's hard. But I'm always available. I'll always be available for anyone who needs help. Rainhouse, Shoal, doesn't matter where you're from, I'll always help them.
John Breda (Guest) · 1:05:30
It's amazing. You know, I love earlier when you were describing the incident, you know, that moment, you know, it was probably that fulcrum, that tipping point and you said, oh, what can I do? Right. And you said, I can use my voice. And I love that because that's what you're asking. What can anyone do in a situation where they— if they use their voice, someone like yourself will always be there to offer some assistance, to be that listening post. Right. I love that. There's such an incredible, powerful image you've created. Can I ask, you know, because it's like, what a journey physically, right? One of the things I noticed from my own situation, sometimes when I'm sick, that's when I'm most selfish, right? Your family at the time, they must have been very harrowing for them.
John Milham (Host) · 1:06:31
Oh, look, that's— yeah, I could talk for an hour about that. Yeah, just my kids were little at the time. And just, and for my wife too, just not knowing coming to the hospital whether I was alive or dead. You know, she didn't know. And, you know, she came to the hospital thinking, thinking I was dead.
John Breda (Guest) · 1:06:50
It probably looks like it, right? Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 1:06:54
Yeah. And even, you know, having to wait the 6 hours during the operation and then, you know, doctors come out and say, and thinking, oh, they coming out to tell me that he's died or because I was basically on the edge of death because the anesthetist who kept me alive— that I found out later on, these are the most important people in an operation. They keep you alive because they administer the drugs, they administer the blood. And what happens is when people receive blood in a major incident, they— the body then finds out that the blood that you're putting in is a foreign entity and it will start to reject it. And they said that your body just kept going, just, it just kept accepting the blood and didn't, didn't reject any of the blood. And then that's how the doctors were able to do their job. So it's a, it's a team effort, um, what they were doing. And the blood just kept me alive for them to do what they had to do. And that's how that was so important, um, for that to happen. So it's, um, yeah.
John Breda (Guest) · 1:08:03
So your family, have they, um, accepted, you know, their own trauma in that situation? I know you—
John Milham (Host) · 1:08:11
yeah, you know, they went through some stuff, and my wife as well. So it's—
John Breda (Guest) · 1:08:18
did she want you to continue? Like, as you said, you, you were stubborn.
John Milham (Host) · 1:08:22
No, she said, no, you, you gotta stop. And I'll being stubborn. I was like, no, I'm coming back. I'll leave when I want to leave, not when someone forces me to leave. That was my scenario. I'll leave when I want to go, not when someone else wants me to go. So, yeah. So I was like, no, I'm coming back. There was no question.
John Breda (Guest) · 1:08:44
Which is probably why you were stubborn enough to stay alive, right? And I'm super glad.
John Milham (Host) · 1:08:50
I think so.
John Breda (Guest) · 1:08:51
I'm super glad. I feel like We need to send you a Kintsugi shirt made tracing your scars, right? We paint them. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 1:09:03
Well, I say it's like, you know, the peace sign. You know, the peace sign. Just take away one side of the— that's what my body looks like. Half a peace sign.
John Breda (Guest) · 1:09:14
And it's— but, well, the scars represent an incredible attitude, a beautiful recovery. And the work you're doing now is so vital to promote the idea. Like, that's such a small but crucial thing that the community can do to make a difference.
John Milham (Host) · 1:09:34
Oh, it just— you know, people ask, what can I do? Go and give blood. Like, I can't stress— unfortunately, a lot of people can't give blood for whatever reasons. They might be having some medical at the time or sickness, but if they can get others to give blood. And it's not until you need blood that you realize how powerful and how much required. And when you give blood, you feel good. Like people say, oh, look, you know, I've got a message that my blood was used at hospital, at Children's Hospital, like, oh, my blood went to help some little kid or some mum who gave birth, or, you know, And so many cancer patients need blood and the medicines that they make from blood, because a lot of medicines are made with the platelets, the chemicals, the platelets and so forth. And it's so important. People just don't realize how much blood goes into what everyday aspects that people use as well with medicines.
John Breda (Guest) · 1:10:36
Yeah, well, you're certainly a powerful advocate. That story is amazing. I'm pretty sure we could cover another few aspects for another hour, but maybe that's the next one. John, your story is inspiring. And on top of that, I feel like you're a really good bloke, and it's been such a joy to chat to you today, mate. So I'm so glad you had the right attitude and that you got here to share with us today. Some really important stuff. So thank you, Mick.
John Milham (Host) · 1:11:09
No, no. Well, Kintsugi is me, and that's basically when I— when I'm gonna ask you, maybe you'll be our ambassador as well, right? Then what I read about, I was like, putting, you know, highlights the repair. Like, well, that's it, I've been repaired.
John Breda (Guest) · 1:11:23
I'll get you with the shirt up, right, for the—
John Milham (Host) · 1:11:27
well, I've never shown any of my scars, but it's like, you know, when I go to the beach, you know, people look and because it's so— and, and it's funny because little kids don't have filters. Little kids don't have filters. What happened to you? What happened to you? It's funny how little kids just, you know, they stare and look. And I had, um, I, I got a few scars myself.
John Breda (Guest) · 1:11:49
And, um, I, I was teaching nippers, right? So I had the under-7s, and they, they, they thought I was, um, you know Northern Beaches version of, uh, Steve Irwin, right? Because of the— he's surviving the shark attacks and beating them off with a punch in the eye, right? Of course, you know, rugby knee injuries, but never mind, you know. Oh yeah, the shark attack sounds better to the Nippers.
John Milham (Host) · 1:12:13
Yeah, I've used that too.
John Breda (Guest) · 1:12:15
So yeah, but I always win.
John Milham (Host) · 1:12:17
I always win the scar competition. I was like, is there a scar competition? I'll win.
John Breda (Guest) · 1:12:21
Well, mate, uh, I'm so glad that those scars have, uh are heading you into a direction where the community is benefiting from your time and your attitude. Yeah, thank you, man.
John Milham (Host) · 1:12:32
I always say after something bad, something good always happens.
John Breda (Guest) · 1:12:35
I love that. It's called the Phoenix Effect, right? And you are a walking example of it.
John Milham (Host) · 1:12:40
And I thank you again for having me on the show.
John Breda (Guest) · 1:12:45
And, mate, it's been terrific. Thanks again. Cheers, brother.
John Milham (Host) · 1:12:48
Thanks, John. Thank you for listening to this episode of Kintsugi Heroes. Thank you to Colin Lilly for permission to use Broken as our theme music for this series. If you enjoyed this conversation, share the podcast with a friend and let us know by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to support Kintsugi Heroes and the stories we share, head to kintsugiheroes.com.au and follow the instructions to make a tax-deductible donation. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.
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