Derek Rogers · 40 min
A health and wellness educator who taught others how to thrive found himself secretly drowning in burnout and depression, and his journey back reveals exactly what most of us are never taught about keeping ourselves well.
Hear this story
Derek Rogers spent nine years as a teacher in a Melbourne community school, working with vulnerable teenagers while raising two kids as a single father. When his principal noticed his passion for staff wellbeing, Derek left teaching to start his own health and wellness business from home. What happened next caught him completely off guard: the thing that was supposed to fulfil him became the thing that broke him.
Without realising it, Derek had removed every single element that kept him well. He stopped playing sports, stopped seeing his mates midweek, stopped doing the things he loved. Working alone from his spare room, he spiralled into depression so quietly that he almost didn't notice it happening. He convinced himself he just needed more sleep, more rest. It took an online depression screening and a reluctant visit to his GP to make it real. The score was 24. His psychologist helped him see what he'd done: he'd cut out fresh air, exercise, and connection with the people he belonged to, then wondered why he felt flat and numb.
When Derek rang three mates to reconnect, only one understood. That friend showed up at his house, took him out for coffee in the sunshine, then came back the next day to drag him out to play golf. Those two simple acts, something as basic as fresh air and a mate who knew what he needed, turned the tide.
Years later, when Derek found himself burnt out again after a stressful move to Queensland, his business coach asked him a different question: what does your spirit need? Derek gave himself permission to rest for four days at the beach. On the Monday morning, a CEO texted offering work. Derek had finally learned the lesson that most people are never taught: how to keep yourself well is the same three things every time, and taking care of yourself first isn't selfish. It makes you better able to be there for others.
“I've cut out my tribe the people I'm connected to and felt I belong to — to start something that I'm passionate about.”
“I had feelings of I just don't want to be here anymore — thought by hell this is no good I've got to do something but I was too embarrassed to speak up.”
“Those months and possibly years of feeling flat and then spiralling into depression was actually a gift that you can now share.”
The hero, today
Derek cut out his exercise, his friendships, and the activities he loved in order to focus on his new business, which is the opposite of what kept him well and led him into depression. Having one trusted person who understood, who said 'I understand' and showed up to physically get him out of the house, was what turned Derek's depression around, not self-help or willpower alone. Derek teaches other men that they need to know how to keep themselves well: fresh air, exercise, and connection with the people they belong to, the same three things he had removed from his own life. When Derek stopped forcing and pushing his business to happen and gave himself permission to rest, he moved into a receiving mode where new opportunities and clients came to him. Derek learned that he needs to listen to his body and his world more, and that taking care of himself first is not selfish, it makes him better able to be of service to others.
Yes. Derek Rogers is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Derek cut out his exercise, his friendships, and the activities he loved in order to focus on his new business, which is the opposite of what kept him well and led him into depression.
Having one trusted person who understood, who said 'I understand' and showed up to physically get him out of the house, was what turned Derek's depression around, not self-help or willpower alone.
Derek teaches other men that they need to know how to keep themselves well: fresh air, exercise, and connection with the people they belong to, the same three things he had removed from his own life.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 00:07
Welcome to the Kintsugi Heroes podcast, where we share inspirational stories of everyday people going through different challenges and how they overcome them. Please be aware that the story you're about to hear may have moments of deeply felt emotions and personal experiences. If anything you hear has a triggering effect please reach out to someone who can help keep you safe. If you love this conversation, we'd love you to like and share it with your friends so we can continue to share more inspiration and hope to as many people as possible. Now listen up for our next hero story. This episode is with Derek Rogers. A wonderful human who has been through a lot and he's been able to turn it around. He's been educating and coaching people in health and wellness and education in his early career, and he found himself all of a sudden, surprisingly, in a state of burnout and depression. He was a single father at the time. He talks about the way in which he navigated out, but the challenge for him was that he actually fell prey to the very things that he was teaching others not to do. It shows that it can be easy for us to fall into these fall into these traps because of our world around us and our society and how distracting it is and how luring it is to step off path and to not do the things that we need to do. Derek learned a lot about himself and he got through it with the help of the right people and support structures. And he talks about this in detail and he's, he's got a lot to share. He's got a lot to give. And now he helps people with this every day. It's a wonderful conversation. I know you'll enjoy it just as I did. This is Derek Rogers. Hello, here we are. It's another episode of Kintsugi Heroes. I'm here with Derek Rogers today. Derek, how are you doing?
Derek Rogers (Guest) · 02:09
I'm excited to be here. Thanks, Evelyn. I'm grateful for the opportunity to share a bit of my journey today, uh, in the hope that it may resonate and inspire somebody else, particularly men to, um, to look after themselves better.
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When Derek stopped forcing and pushing his business to happen and gave himself permission to rest, he moved into a receiving mode where new opportunities and clients came to him.
This conversation includes a teacher in a school for kids at risk, starting a business on the side, cutting out the things that kept him well, sinking into depression without recognizing it, the dass test and seeing a gp and three friends and the one who understood.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 02:27
Wonderful. And before we get started, I just want to thank you for coming and being willing to share, you know, your story with me, give up some time and energy. And because it's not always easy to go back and share our stories, it can be sometimes confronting, sometimes vulnerable. And these are personal stories, and you're sharing it, you know, with me live on air, and It's a, it's a great thing that you're doing. It's a gift to others, and I just want to thank you for that. So let's get started, shall we? I'm gonna figuratively hand over the mic to you and ask you to take us back to the beginning. Um, where does your story begin? And take us through.
Derek Rogers (Guest) · 03:07
Yeah, thank you. Um, so here's, here's me, um, a single dad, uh, with two teenagers. Working full-time as a teacher in a community school in Melbourne for kids at risk. So when I mean at risk, I mean at risk of harm, harm to them, harm to others, and harm by others. So these kids are pretty fragile, vulnerable, and pretty hard work, to be honest. Um, And in fact, in hindsight, uh, I was there for nearly 9 years and I was one of the only, uh, silly ones, sort of, so to speak, in the end who was working full-time. Most of the others sort of juggled a bit. And so it, um, unbeknowings to me along that journey, it took its toll on me. And so I'm pretty, um, uh, caring guy and passionate about, um, supporting vulnerable kids, and as a teacher, it was a school that allowed me to do that and bring out a lot of my skills and things. But also, I was a dad and had 2 teenage kids with me for not all of those 9 years, but for a fair majority of it. And so towards the— and I'd background with PE and health and outdoor ed, so always been healthy, always played team sports. And as I think, as I was saying to you before that, I think my calling in life is to be an educator in one way, shape, or form and be doing that for the rest of my life. So I'm passionate about doing that, but probably in a bit of hindsight, sort of too head down. And so yes, unbeknownst to me at the time, I was sort of slowly heading downhill with burnout. But I was passionate about health and wellbeing and I was running some workshops for my staff concerned about, some of them, and I had a principal who was on board and saw that. And then, you know, I tried to do the sensible thing as you start up a business, um, on the side. Um, he said, ah, Joe, I can see you're really passionate about it. There's a huge need for teachers. Um, schools have systems in place for student wellbeing, but not much for staff wellbeing. And not much has changed, unfortunately. And so I thought, okay, uh, I'll take a day off a week and start my own business on the side and do that. And then that was a Tuesday, but then other schools and companies would want me on a Wednesday and a Thursday and it didn't quite work too well. And he said, Derek, I can see you're passionate about this. There's heaps of work out there. Probably go and do it full time. I go, yes, that's my new challenge. Thank you, Simon. And so I left teaching and then I got home all excited, but also I was sort of I didn't really think about what I was leaving. So you tell me what's wrong with this equation, Avalon. I'm in a high-performing team. I'm a team person. I'm a people person. And then I'll go and leave to start my own business from home in my spare room by myself. Can you see where that's going? And then after a short while, I'm thinking, why am I feeling so flat? Why am I feeling so tired? And I thought there's something wrong with me. And then it's a typical bloke and a health teacher. There's nothing wrong with me, uh, but I'm just, oh, I'll just have a bit more of a snooze in, uh, I'll just, you know, just have a bit more of a power nap today. And I thought, what's wrong with me? Then my partner at the time, she goes, um, are you okay? And I go, oh, I'm just tired and had a bit of a rest. And I had a bit of time off, had a bit of long service, and so I took a bit of time off, but it just I didn't recover. And then I said, well, you need to focus on what your new job is. So here's me. I stopped, I gave up my work, which was my tribe. Saw them every day of the week, really connected, great bunch of people. Because we worked in a pretty vulnerable environment with the school kids, we would hug each other in the morning, good morning, and we'd hug each other at nighttime. So really close connected. And then I'd sort of try and catch up with them a bit on the weekends and occasionally, but I sort of found myself disconnected quite quickly. I didn't know it at the time, but, um, that's what I needed and that's what I loved. And so here I am in my own spare room trying to work on this new business. Um, and often I wouldn't see anybody apart from my kids for a few days and partner who wasn't living with me, but we'd catch up. And so I just felt this flatness and it just increased. And then she said, well, you know, what are you doing? And I said, oh, I'm doing a bit of this and I'm doing that. And she said, oh, you know, you need to focus on your business. And so I stopped seeing my mates that I used to see midweek. We'd have a Wednesday catch up and said, you need to focus on your business. And I went, oh yeah, okay, that's right. New business. I need to focus on that. Too much socializing around. And so I stopped seeing I had the mates. And then I used to play my sports a bit during the week and a bit on the weekend and thought, oh no, you need to focus. All right, I'll stop playing those. Yes, I'll get really focused on this because I tend to get a bit easily distracted. But what I didn't know at the time was they were the things that also brought me joy. And so I'm like, all of a sudden I've cut out in a short time all the things that brought me joy. I've cut out my tribe, the people I'm connected to and feel I belong to, to start something that I'm passionate about. But I'm finding I'm just struggling myself with my own energy. And so of course I started to spiral into depression. And again, I thought there's nothing wrong with me. And I had this real conundrum of there's nothing wrong with me. There is something wrong with me. There's nothing wrong with me. Yeah. And I was just in denial. A lovely place off in Egypt, but no good to me in Melbourne at the time. I'm like, ah, what's wrong? I just need a bit more sleep. I need a bit of a rest and it just wasn't helping. And then it just, the feeling of depression just got worse. This numbness, this, um, just not wanting to, to do the things that I used to enjoy. Um, and just wanting to curl up at home and just, and I remember, uh, you know, just struggling a bit with my kids and struggling just, just to cope. And, uh, you know, it just got worse and worse. Um, and then I had feelings of, I just don't want to be here anymore. I thought, bloody hell, this is no good. I've got to do something, but I was too embarrassed to speak up. And I was just in too much pain and it was just this numbness, but I just hated this numbness. I thought, what do I do? What do I do? And I'm better off, you know, the world's better off without me. I'm not doing anything. I'm not going anywhere. I can't get this business happening. I'm a failure. And so the self-talk started to spiral in the wrong direction. And then I thought, no, stop. You can't do this. You've got your kids. You've got a partner who loves you, although doesn't really understand. And I need to snap out of it. But how do I snap out of it? Do I take a pill? Do I have a cold shower? Do I get someone to slap me about? I didn't know what to do. And then I thought, surely I'll go online and I'll find something. And so I found this thing called a DASS test. D for depression, A for anxiety, S for stress. And because I practiced meditation and I was pretty good and had a healthy diet, and although I'd cut out my exercise and my connection, these two huge things, I thought I was doing okay and I was doing all the normal healthy things and I'd be fine. And so stress and anxiety were quite low, sort of 2 and 4, but depression, it was 24. I went, whoa. And it virtually said, you know, go and see your GP straight away. Do not pass go, go straight to your GP. And then I thought, I don't even have a GP. I don't see doctors. What do you need doctors for? What do they know? No, typical male arrogant health bloke. So I looked up one in the phone book near me. So come on in. All right, come on in. And he did his own test and similar results and said, hmm, you know, I think, um, how about having a chat to a psychologist? Ah, psychologist, what do they know? You know, I've done some training and I said, all right, all right, I'm not getting the results. Then I was sort of swallowing my pride and said, right, I'm not getting the results I want for myself. I'll speak to a psychologist. He was really good. And he said, look, if you don't like this one, another one, there's 3, there's 4, there's heaps of them out there. Which of course is the opposite now with the last 3 years in COVID where you can't get to see one. The waiting list is huge time. Anyway, I was grateful back then. And so I saw a psychologist and she was good. She said, well, what's been happening? And I said, well, I've been doing this and doing this. And then as I was able to speak what I'd been doing, I had the self-awareness to go, oh my God, Derek, you dick. You've just done the opposite things to keeping yourself well. How's your exercise going? Oh, I stopped doing that. How's your connection to the things you love doing? Oh, I stopped doing that. And how's your circle of friends? Oh, I stopped catching up with them. I went, oh my goodness, you idiot. So that was good. It gave me the realization of what I needed to do to get myself well. And then I thought, okay, ring. And I had a missed call from a mate. And in hindsight, he probably wasn't the most understanding mate because I rang him back and he said, Derek, where you been? We haven't heard from you. And I said, oh, look, I Sorry, mate, I've just been not feeling well, pretty flat. In fact, I've just been diagnosed with depression. You'll be right, mate, harden up and come and see us. Yeah, great, thanks. He didn't really understand. And then next mate I rang up who'd had a missed call from a little while ago. And I said to him, oh, look, I've been missing you guys. And he said, why don't you come and see us? Just come and see us. And he didn't understand that I now wanted to. But I actually couldn't get myself going. I knew that that's what I wanted, but just didn't have the energy to actually get in the car and go. And so I said, yeah, thanks, I'll be there, but really didn't have a plan of how to get there. And then the third guy I rang, and this is critical, I've learned that we need 3 friends that we can ring when times are shit and really down. First person doesn't answer the phone. The second person says, I'll get back to you. And the third person answers the phone. So, and the third person, I rang him and told him what's happened. And he's, and he said, oh mate, you got the old black dog. And I went, yeah. And he said, I understand. And he said, I'll come around now. He had a shop and he said, the girls can look after the shop. I'll come around and see you. Come on, we're going out for a cup of coffee. I went, oh my gosh, thank goodness someone understood. Yeah. And he came and got me to, right, I was going out in the sunshine. So he knew sunshine was what I needed. Come on, let's socialize, cup of coffee, have a chat. And I was so, I was so grateful having, cause that's what, um, even though I didn't feel better straight away, he said, right, I come up and he rang me the next day, the next day. And he said, come on on Thursday, we'll grab those golf clubs out of the garage. Come on, we'll go and have a hit. And they came and literally dragged me along because that's what I needed. I needed to be dragged out of home. I needed to go in his car, not my car, and get out there and just start walking and talking and having a hit around the golf course. And so I'm so grateful that he knew what to do. And I just slowly got myself back in the positive direction, back up the hill instead of sliding down the hill. And then it was just, okay, I need to interact. And then I was able to do those little things. I was able to get myself out and I was able to then get in the car and drive myself. And I'm so grateful for that learning of those two key things that for me were missing of fresh air and exercise and connecting with your mates. Sorry, three things and doing the things you love. Otherwise, I might not have been here today. And so now, um, as part of my health and wellbeing training, I use this story, a shorter version, to particularly men when I'm doing workshops and I say to them, this happened to me. Do you guys know how to keep yourselves well? And guess what most of them, the look on their face is, no. Yeah, they don't. They don't. So I'm grateful for that lesson. And I had some coaching and said, you know, what if those, those months and possibly years of feeling flat and then spiraling into depression was actually a gift that you can now share? Wow. I hadn't thought of that. So it's life. As, um, as Tony Robbins reminds us, he says, life doesn't happen to us. It happens for us. For us to learn from it and grow. So I'm grateful and I do that, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to share wherever I can, like today. And so you would think, um, everything would be all roses and, um, I'd— nothing would ever happen to me ever again because I would know what to do. Well, life has a funny way of testing us, and particularly the last 3 years with bushfires and COVID and floods. And then here's me again, um, in Melbourne. And just before the end of 2019, uh, I coached my wife to leave another toxic corporate job and said, I need to get out of Melbourne, just need to get away. So we found a little place to move into on the Bellarine Peninsula out of Geelong, quiet little sleepy fishing village, about 3,000 people. And that was lovely just to rest. And then, um, we thought we'd go there for, you know, 3 or 4 days and come back to Melbourne and work. And then after a week, she said she didn't want to go back and I've gone, okay, we can make this work. And I just probably 2 months before that rebranded myself, created a new, new business and organization, and then moved to an hour and a half away from Melbourne and I can't connect with a new community, and that was in Geelong. I thought that'd be great. And then of course, early, uh, 2020, COVID came in, we're sort of shut down. And for me, being a people person, a team person, uh, an extrovert, I struggled. And so the Zoom was okay, but it wasn't enough. I couldn't go out and play my golf. I couldn't go and see my kids in Melbourne. And it was just really hard, um, as it was for millions of other people. So I'm sure this is a familiar story. And then we moved, uh, when I was coaching people, a bit online coaching, and said, you know, now that you work from home, where would you actually like your home to be? You know, do you want to drive for an hour for work every day, catch the train every day? And people said no. And so, well, what's stopping you? I coached my wife again to leave another toxic corporate job. I think it was in the April, May, and friends were renting a house up on the Sunshine Coast and said, why don't you come up with us? And I went, honey, you've got a bit of time off. I've got a few days free. Let's make it happen. So we went up there and we were rural Victoria then. We weren't Melbourne, which was in the hard lockdown, the Ring of Steel. And so we were able to go for a little while anyway. And so we went up there and we said, oh my God, this is, you know, she says beautiful. And I go, yes, I know. Every time we come up here, And then probably because I'm getting a bit more in touch with myself, Evelyn, I said, actually, every time I come up here, it feels like home to me. And she said, you've never said that before. And I go, well, I'm saying it now. And I said, what's stopping us from living here? Why can't we live here? And so our kids are fine. My mum was going to move where we were in coastal Victoria. And I had the conversation with her, look, we're looking, thinking of moving to Sunshine Coast. And she said, I love the Sunshine Coast. Coast. Oh, great. So yes, we moved again. Um, and it's such a beautiful world up here, but again, I had to start. Um, and so here, here we are, that from that May, June '21 to the rest of '21, moved and packed up my mom's house, moved and packed up, sorry, and sold her house and moved and packed up and sold our place, then had to buy a place online in Queensland. Without actually seeing it, just a little picture on the internet. And then you'd look at them and inquire 3 days later and they were sold and going, oh my God. And so then it's just the stress of the month or 2 of trying to find a place to live because we'd sold this place now and going to have nowhere to live. And so we bought this place sight unseen and thought, okay, that'll do. We'll just grab something and then went back to pack up my mum's house for a couple of weeks before we drive up. And then they brought a lockdown and said, you can't come up. Go, what are we supposed to do? All right, we'll start at my mum's, we'll pack up mum's. So we stayed at my mum's, not for 2 weeks, but for 9 weeks. 43 years of stuff, Avalon. And stuff. It was driving me crazy. I'm trying to work at the same time. My wife's just started a new job again. We're in country Victoria. We're holding our phones, using them as hotspots against the window, standing on one leg, trying to get reception and pack up my mum's house at the same time. And then work out how we're going to get to Queensland because we're now locked out. Uh, we don't have a home we can go to up there. Mum's house is now sold, we have to move out of that. So the stress was building up. Then finally it was, um, 13th of December or something, we were allowed to drive up because we had a car full. Didn't want to do the home quarantine, that was going to cost us like $6,000 and be very stressful, stay in a hotel for 2 weeks, no guarantee of windows or fresh air. Oh my God, are you kidding? And, and, and we had to pay thousands for it. I said, don't think so. Happened. Surely they'll let us through next week. Surely they'll let us through next week. So all of this stress, anxiety was building up. So finally we were able to move to Queensland, December '21, unpacking over Christmas, our place. Then my mom arrives 2 weeks later, 3 weeks later, unpacking, getting her settled in. That took like to April trying to get supports for her. And probably middle of January, I'm trying to unlook pounding the pavement, trying to start my new business again up here. And so you can probably guess that I just started running out of petrol. Sorry for the interruption. This is Ian Westmoreland, the founder of Katsuki Heroes, and thank you for listening to this story from one of our amazing heroes. Our mission is for these stories to provide hope and inspiration to people experiencing life challenges and to also educate the broader community on how best to provide support. If you would like to help us to continue to produce more hero stories and cover more adversity themes, we would welcome all donations. These can be made via our website kidsuperheroes.com.au. The donate function is at the bottom of the home page. We'd also welcome any feedback. You can email me direct using ian@kidsuperheroes.com.au. Now let's get back to the story. Like most people, we have that Christmas break, Evelyn, to reset and recharge ourselves, have rest. That didn't happen for me, so I probably only had a quarter of my petrol in my own personal emotional and physical tank, and then started the year of '22 last year with this much left in my tank. And so I was just, oh my God, I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted, but I have to get some new work and new clients and happen. We had the beach.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 22:54
Good.
Derek Rogers (Guest) · 22:54
I'll go down the beach. I'll swim, do some meditation. In hindsight, I was probably, you know, I was just about bobbing above water for most of last year. And then it was only towards the end in October, my wife went away on a 4-day yoga retreat. And I remember, um, I had a new business coach then. I was setting up a different business brand. I was going to do my old one to be a not-for-profit for men's and the new one targeted for small business and working on that. I was working 10, 12 hours a day, but not really getting any financial returns. So then there was more financial pressure. I remember talking to my business coach just on the day before my wife was going away on a 4-day. And he said, how are you? And I said, I'm freaking exhausted. And he said, well, take a couple of deep breaths. And he said, all right, tell me, what does your spirit need? Go, my spirit's saying stop, just friggin' stop. And he said, why don't you? And I said, because I've got this work to do for you. And we had these outcomes. And he said, here's the thing. He said, had my mum hadn't come over from New Zealand, hadn't seen her for 3 years. She's coming over a little while ago. And I said, oh, I'm so busy. I don't really have time. Look, she can have my room. I'll work in the garage and we'll just, you know, I'll see her at nighttime. And then he said, no, stop it. It's really important. I'll make time, see my mum, spend quality time with her, enjoy the time, and just hope and have faith that my business and my clients will understand. He said, not only did they did, but I picked up 2 more clients because I was in a better space. I went, oh my God. And he said, sometimes you feel like you're forcing and pushing things to happen. I go, yeah. And he said, when you stop and give yourself time to reset and breathe, you actually become in the receiving mode. I went, oh my God, that's what I need to do. Again, I know this stuff, but I wasn't doing it. I'm too much helping other people and caring for them. And I'll get, I'll do this for you. I'll do that for you. That I wasn't looking at myself. Well, I was looking at myself in the mirror and my bags under my eyes were just getting bigger and bigger. I'm going, I'm sleeping 9 hours a day. Why, why am I not waking up refreshed? And so I said, righto. It was only that I gave myself permission because my wife went away for 4 days and I thought, right, I'm going to have my own internal yoga retreat. And then Mark coached me and said, what would be the best for you? Meditating the waterfall, going to the mountains, sitting at the beach. And I said, probably just the beach. And he said, righto, let's go. And I said, what about all this other stuff? And he said, just reschedule your meetings, taking time out next 4 days. He said, I don't want to See you on social media. I don't want to see any appointments. I don't want to see you going past having coffee with anybody. I just want to see you stop for you. I went, okay, got it. So yeah, I went down the beach and, uh, I didn't hurry home. I stopped and I just walked on the beach and I practiced being present, not just for 10 minutes, but for, well, not 10 hours, but probably an hour or two. And I sat on the beach and then I did my breathing. And I did the surrender meditation. And then I felt myself lighter. And I thought, oh my God, all this tension in the back of my head and my neck. Oh God, it's starting to go away. And so I was getting some feedback, keep doing it. And so that night, I think, yeah, I slept 10 hours on a Friday night, 12 hours on the Saturday night, 11 hours on the Sunday night, because my body, my nervous System was saying, I need you to stop. And, and just had faith that everything would be okay. And guess what happened on the Monday morning at 9 o'clock? I got a text message from a CEO of a company that I had met the lady on the Wednesday morning before I took the afternoon and hence the Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday off. And she said, oh, we're looking for somebody like you and Um, I said, ah, I used to do that years ago. I don't know. And just send me a CV. So I did it and completely forgot about it. On the Monday morning, the CEO says, which I didn't expect, said, have you got time for a cup of coffee? I'd like to talk to you about some training and some other opportunities. And I've just gone, oh my God, this stuff does work because I was then in the receiving mode. And when I took his phone call, I felt refreshed and invigorated. I didn't have probably a tired sound in my voice. I didn't have maybe a tone of desperation. And it was beautiful. I've learned that I need to listen to my body a lot more. I need to listen to my world and just going, going, going. And I know, again, it's not just me. There's a million other people out there, particularly in Melbourne and Sydney, given the last 3 years. I was reading a research from Australian Psychology Board and they said that nearly a third of Melbourne and Sydney people are experiencing a form of PTSD. They're just glazed over, going about their business and just exhausted. And so I thought, oh my God, that's me. And so now I'm more mindful of what do I need to do. And even though the last few weeks have been challenging, I've got an illness. With my family, um, and a couple of other things happening, uh, it's about stopping and taking care of myself more. How can I be of service to others if I'm not, you know, the best myself?
Aveline Clark (Host) · 28:24
Yeah. Wow, Derek, you've explained your story and told it in such an eloquent and reflective manner, but also just really heartfelt and open. I felt like I was right there with you. Through those moments. And so thank you for sharing what you've shared. I love how you've talked about that, you know, just the learnings and what you've gotten from this. Uh, it sounded to me like there was some key moments on the journey where the pivot point to coming out of the, the challenge where you were either the burnt out or depressed was when you had someone close to you or someone you trusted. Would that be the case? Was that necessary for you to get out?
Derek Rogers (Guest) · 29:13
Yeah, it's, um, often we've got to, you know, for me and probably for other people, learn I've got to get out of the way of myself because I try and convince myself that I'm okay and to keep going. And it's only that trusted person who reflects back what you really know is going on. And then for me, it was giving me permission to acknowledge that, that I am feeling depressed. I am experiencing burnout. Don't worry about how embarrassing it is, just acknowledge it. And then what do you need to do about it? And having that support also that it's, you know, so one, that it's okay to not be okay. And then two, let's work through this together.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 30:01
Yeah, really, really important. Can I ask, how, how long ago was your period of depression?
Derek Rogers (Guest) · 30:08
Uh, so that was probably when I first left teaching, so that would have been 12 years ago.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 30:14
12 years. How has that event, that period of, of your life impacted all of the years thereafter and the work that you do today?
Derek Rogers (Guest) · 30:27
I think, yeah, I'm just so much more conscious of how other, particularly other men, are traveling. And I can see through them more easily. And I've perhaps been drawn to more men when I'm doing training for organizations that they'll, like, will grab me and will bit, just tap me on the shoulder afterwards. Hey, you work with people one-on-one? Yes, I do. What's happening? And have a conversation with them. And, um, and then we often go from there. So, so that's, that's, that's nice that I'm able to, um, connect and be relatable, have the skills now, first the empathy to understand a lot of their journey, and then also help them with the the coaching training that I've got, um, and then also just the general well-being mentoring if needed to help them get back on track and be the, be the person that they, um, want to be and need to be for their life. Yeah.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 31:30
Beautiful. You know, and what you're doing is so critically needed and it's, it's unique, but it, but it's also not so unique. It's unique, but it's not unique in its need, as in so many people need this. And as you were talking, I was just feeling into it and reflecting on myself, about me. And I've been through burnout, I've been through a period of depression. And the things that you learned about yourself, I was just— when you figured out that you didn't have— you weren't doing the activities, you know, you weren't getting out in nature and you weren't connecting with, you know, people that love you. So you weren't doing the things that actually brought you, gave you the fuel of life.
Derek Rogers (Guest) · 32:13
Yep.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 32:14
And I was thinking, when did I learn that? And I have to say, I've only learned that the last 2 years. And I don't think it's because of COVID It's just, it just coincided with me meeting a couple of people that actually helped me. And they actually do a similar thing, but for women. And I thought, imagine how amazing our world would be if we got taught these simple strategies and structures of ourselves and how we operate. You know, we, we are not robots. We don't operate on like a straight line continuum of energy. You know, every day we are different. And yet we're not taught that at school. We're not taught that at any time really, unless our parents are aware. So it's no wonder these men are just going, well, I don't know about self-care. I don't know, you know, anything of what you're talking about. Because I don't think we've just not come from probably parents of it. The generation of our parents didn't really have this level of awareness, but we do now. And that's a beautiful thing.
Derek Rogers (Guest) · 33:20
Yeah. And my kids do now, which are great. And it is changing. Slowly. And as my daughter reminded me, she said, you know, Dad, the guys my age who, you know, I've had 3 who have died and they're not, you know, not with us anymore. Others that are, I've got probably 5 wives that said, Derek, please coach them. They're just often not willing and open. Um, but our younger generation, uh, particularly in the teenagers to 20s, uh, uh, and they, they know they often don't want to be like their dad. And so, you know, they can see that he looks like a stroke or heart attack waiting to happen and stressed out. Um, and so they want that life balance. They also want to start off $100,000, but, you know, they, you know, uh, and, and great that, that they're more, more aware of, um, of their body and life than I was, and certainly, um, and my parents and things. So it's, there is a shift, um, and we're having these conversations today more than ever, which is great, but we certainly still got a long way to go with, with men's suicide. You know, it's gone from 8 up to 9 a day now, and 7 of those 9 are men. More women try, Um, and just go out and do it. So we've got to continue this conversation, but in a proactive way. Just on a side note, out of the 85-odd charities in Australia for mental health, most of them are all reactive. Wait till you commit suicide, then we'll come in and do a talk. So these skills that we're talking about today, what do you need to do to keep yourself well? Unfortunately, we have reactive society, um, governments. Policy makers, everything's reactive. We don't have a healthcare system, we have a sick care system. It's based on you being sick. So I have felt, particularly over the last 3 years where the media was all, you know, go and see a psychologist, go and see a psychologist, you know, and guess what? Psychologists are now doing the coaching training because it's actually practical. It's very evidence-based and it's the most efficient, effective way to change human behavior. So I'm grateful for my training in it and just You know, there's only, uh, well, there's thousands of me actually who are trained mindset neurocoaches, um, International Coaching Federation accredited and trained. We need to be, um, busier and working more and making a difference because you're right, there are millions of people out there could do with it. So you don't need just a mental health nurse. You don't need a psychologist. Certainly you can start with your GP and the 10-care mental health care plan, if you can find a psychologist, is, is an awesome initiative. But, uh, yeah, we can learn how to look after ourselves better, learn how to support each other better, connect better. And so I'm hopeful that, uh, we're having a more caring community going forward where we will look after each other, given the last 3 years of the challenges that, you know, nearly everyone on the planet has faced. So I'm hopeful that there is that sense of more community and connecting and caring moving forward.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 36:40
Adeline, thanks, Derek. I agree, and I think it's a— it's at the right time, and what you're doing is helping a lot of people. And you sharing your story today is just— has come at the right time, and hopefully those that need to hear it will hear it.
Derek Rogers (Guest) · 36:57
Yeah. Yeah. And that's it. You just, um, I share it where I can. And as you said, those who, who, um, need to hear it will be there and we can continue the conversation. And if not for me, then I can refer them to somebody else. So it's got to be a good fit.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 37:14
Absolutely. And just on that, uh, if someone is listening to this who's, you know, can resonate and they want to reach out to you, your details will be on the show notes page. On the, on the podcast page, which is great. And I just want to ask you one final question, and that is, if there is people, and there will be people listening to this who can resonate with that depression, with lack, you know, all the things that you've talked about, the burnout, not looking after themselves, if there's someone that sort of suddenly got that light bulb moment and gone, oh my gosh, that's me, he's nailed it, what would you like to say to them? Right now?
Derek Rogers (Guest) · 37:52
I'd like to say that you're not alone, that there are many, many people feeling very similar feelings to you, um, and that it is okay sometimes to be not okay, particularly given the last 3 years. So be kind to yourself, uh, look after yourself. There's lots of great information out there now to look after yourself. And if you do and share, share with those people who love you, because they're probably wondering why you're, you're not yourself. And maybe you've been told you do this or do that. So just share. Um, and you'll find that those people who care about you will, will care. And those people who don't care, well then, they're not for you. And if you need some support, you know, find someone who can stand beside you and has the skills and to help you move forward. So yeah.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 38:49
Wonderful. Thank you so much, Derek. I really appreciate all of that and everything you've shared today. It's been wonderful.
Derek Rogers (Guest) · 38:56
My pleasure. Thank you for having me today and keep on the good work that you're doing by sharing some beautiful stories that can enrich us personally and as a community.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 39:10
Great. Yeah, you're welcome. It's a pleasure and an honor as always. So thank you so much. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Kintsugi Heroes. Please like and share the show to your friends so we can get this out to even more people. If you have a story you'd like to share with us, please reach out using the contact details below. And join us next week for our next hero's story. Until then, keep being you and And remember that we are all heroes in our own unique way.
Derek Rogers (Guest) · 39:47
Only when it's broken, only when it's broken, when it hits you in the middle of the night and the truth burns so bright. Only when it's broken, only when it's broken. Take pride in those cries, it's only for tonight, and then you rise. Only when you're broken, only when you're broken. When you're broken.
You don't have to be in crisis to call.
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