Caroline Brunne
Caroline learned that healing from childhood abuse means holding complexity, and that a dog's quiet presence can teach you what you need to know about time.
Hear this story
Caroline grew up in a large Mauritian family where cousins were constant and safety felt secure. At 10, a family member she trusted began abusing her over four years. She coped by shrinking herself, becoming the good girl, always trying to keep the abuser happy. That survival skill, fawning, became a lifelong pattern of people-pleasing that exhausted her well into adulthood.
At 16, during an argument, the secret spilled out. The support offered afterward wasn't specialized or right for what she needed. She held the abuse locked away for decades, guarded and closed off even around people who saw her every day. In 2020, at a breaking point, Caroline told her younger sister the truth. She needed authenticity in their relationship, wanted to protect the next generation, and knew she couldn't survive keeping it hidden anymore. She went on to write a memoir and became a survivor coach. Some family members went silent; a handful stayed close. The loss became a grief she hadn't anticipated.
In December 2020, during Melbourne's hardest lockdowns, a Border Collie puppy named Louie arrived at her home. While writing her memoir, Louie sat at her feet. He became her constant during the work of going back through her life. Now an accredited therapy dog, Louie's whole job is simple: greet people, settle them, let them feel safe enough to let their guard down. Caroline has learned from him what healing actually looks like. It takes time. It moves at its own pace, with peaks and valleys. It means slowing down, giving yourself grace, and remembering to rest when you've carried something hard.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses grief & loss, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au • GriefLine: 1300 845 745 · griefline.org.au
“The trauma response that I experienced was fawning, which is something that a lot of victim survivors do, especially children and women. And it is a way of essentially shrinking yourself, becoming quite palatable to the abuser.”
“More than one thing is true, even with me. And the more I spoke to people through the process of understanding survivor healing and doing my own healing and whatever else, that was the part that people really struggle with.”
“I think with any type of trauma and abuse, there is some real specialized care that needs to be put in place.”
The hero, today
When a child discloses abuse, it is the responsibility of the adults around them to educate themselves, find resources, and seek specialized support, not the child's responsibility to guide that process. More than one thing can be true: a person who caused harm can have been good in other ways, and holding both truths at once is where real understanding begins. Before telling anyone else, tell yourself your story first, write it, speak it, record it, so you are deeply rooted in your own truth before you share it with another person. When someone discloses abuse to you, the first thing to ask is what they need from you right now, and then respect their autonomy by stepping back and listening instead of taking over. Healing is not linear; it moves at its own pace with peaks and valleys, and slowing down to give yourself grace is part of the work itself.
Yes. Caroline Brunne is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
When a child discloses abuse, it is the responsibility of the adults around them to educate themselves, find resources, and seek specialized support, not the child's responsibility to guide that process.
More than one thing can be true: a person who caused harm can have been good in other ways, and holding both truths at once is where real understanding begins.
Before telling anyone else, tell yourself your story first, write it, speak it, record it, so you are deeply rooted in your own truth before you share it with another person.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 00:02
Welcome to another episode of Animals and Us, where we explore and honor the awesomeness of animals and our relationships with them. Today's guest is author and survivor coach Caroline Bruni, whose memoir More Than One Thing Can Be True: A Story of Survival has opened important conversations about healing after childhood sexual abuse. We'll talk about her book, her path through disclosure and healing, and the bond with therapy dog Louie, who works alongside her to help other survivors. Hello, Caroline, and welcome to Animals and Us.
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 00:42
Thank you so much for having me.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 00:45
Caroline, let's start from your childhood before your abuse began. Can you paint a picture of what your childhood was like?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 00:53
It's interesting, this question's always a little challenging because as a trauma survivor, one of the things I'm very aware of now as an adult is that my memory can be skewed. Sometimes there can be memories that I've almost pieced together from photos and from stories others have shared with me, and sometimes like memories are really clear. But the reality is, as a trauma survivor, when we try to put trauma in compartments in our brains and process harder memories. It means that often memories as a whole can get kind of boxed up all together from a point in time. But what I do remember of my childhood is just having a really big family. So I come from a really large Mauritian family. Both of my parents are one of 8, and I have 28 first cousins, and 26 of those cousins live in Australia. So I've always grown up, or especially as a child, just always had, um, I wasn't the kind of child that had, um, like friends come over on the weekend or after school because there was always family around sort of thing. So you didn't really need to extend those friendships from school outside of school because there was always, always someone to spend time with. Um, and that's partly because we migrated from Mauritius. So as more people kind of came over time, um, you know, people would stay with others and, and, um, you know, find their feet before they found their own place and had their jobs. And, and as kids, that was the best because you just had all these constant sleepovers and things, um, which was so much fun. So that's definitely the highlight of my childhood, is, is growing up in a really big family and having you know, just, just these wonderful memories of being with cousins and, and always having that fun that we had.
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When someone discloses abuse to you, the first thing to ask is what they need from you right now, and then respect their autonomy by stepping back and listening instead of taking over.
This conversation includes a big family, always someone to spend time with, four years of abuse from someone she trusted, making herself small to stay safe, people-pleasing that doesn't get you very far, the secret spills out in an argument and sent to the wrong psychologist at the wrong time.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 02:57
Yeah, a very full household by the sound of it.
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 02:59
Yeah, yeah, very full, very active households.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 03:05
And Caroline, when you were 10 years old, abuse from a family member changed your life forever. So without disclosing names and identity. Can you touch on what actually happened over those 4 years?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 03:22
Yeah, um, so I think that's one of the complex parts of this story, and even as I've already shared, um, family is something I hold so dear to who I am and my upbringing and, and the cultural element of who I am. Um, Martians tend to come from big families, so It is devastating to have been abused by a family member and for someone to have really abused that trust and that safety that you have and that you're supposed to have within family. In my case, I was abused over a 4-year period, which even when we think about how much children change between the ages of 10 and 14, especially especially girls, um, that was really quite significant to my overall well-being, definitely my understanding of, um, the changes that were happening in me from an adolescence perspective, um, and in some ways really created some challenges around my sense of safety, my sense of self. But also put certain other parts of my development almost in overdrive. So, you know, in my case, I went through puberty quite young and had a lot of changes in my body quite young. And I've now— I now work in the trauma space and have a much better understanding than a lot of that came from most likely were symptoms of the trauma that I was experiencing. But yeah, the trauma and abuse that I experienced or was subjected to continued for about 4 years. And it's very complex when it does happen in a family setting because unfortunately in a lot of cases, especially with child sexual abuse, they are often family members or people that are very close to families.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 05:38
So how did you cope with that awful experience during those 4 years?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 05:45
What's not often spoken about is the range of trauma responses that we have as human beings. Um, so we know— we often hear about fight, flight, or freeze. Um, they are the more common and almost thrown around as just things that happen in your everyday because they do. We can have a freeze response even to reading an email or receiving a difficult piece of communication. It's what our bodies are trained to do to protect us. But there are a range of other trauma responses that exist in the body and that human beings have. And in my case, the trauma response that I experienced was fawning, which is something that a lot of victim survivors do, especially children and women. Um, and it is a way of essentially shrinking yourself, becoming, um, quite palatable to the abuser. So, uh, if they potentially are violent or maybe have a temper or say things to you that make you feel that in addition to the abuse, that you're also not safe, you do a lot to keep them happy. So because my behavior was so deeply rooted in this trauma response of fawning, to the outside world, it probably didn't even seem that the abuse was happening because my behavior was all about being a good girl, being as well-behaved as possible, trying to ensure that I complied because the fear of getting in trouble was also the fear of abuse continuing. Um, so interestingly, that, like, again, upon reflection, I definitely didn't have this level of insight as a 10, 11, 12, 13, 14-year-old. Um, but upon reflection, that was definitely how I behaved. Um, and it kept me safe, um, in the sense that the smaller I was, the more I kind of shrunk myself and almost tried to make myself invisible. And then when I was in the presence of the abuser, um, to be as well-behaved and as, as palatable and as pleasing as possible often meant that I didn't draw too much attention to myself and at times could avoid certain situations, um, which meant that I would be unsafe. So that is exhausting for a child to constantly feel like they're walking on eggshells. Yeah, a child that's just supposed to be playing with their toys and spending time with friends or cousins and, and just doing life. Um, yes, that is a lot. And it definitely took its toll and became a trait of mine well into, well into my adult years, um, of some of those traits that then turned into other traits of my personality and things that I did.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 08:49
Yeah, appeasing and pleasing. Others.
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 08:53
Yeah, fawning can very quickly turn into people pleasing, can turn into, um, being a yes person constantly, just bending and shrinking yourself to fit and please others, not trying to rock the boat sort of thing. And that one is exhausting even as an adult, but it also doesn't get you very far. Um, so yeah, it's definitely something that I've been really mindful of even as I've gotten older to to be cautious of and, um, and ensure that my autonomy and self-care has been the focus of my decisions as an adult.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 09:31
Yeah. And Caroline, when you were 16, you disclosed to 2 family members the abuse that you had endured for those 4 years. What led you to— what was the trigger that led you to disclosing?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 09:49
Yeah, interestingly, I don't think there was a lot of thought that was put into that point in time for me. Um, I think it was a combination of a lot of hurt and trauma that I was carrying, fueled by the peak of my adolescence and all the hormonal changes that I was experiencing being a 16-year-old teenage girl. Um, And the day that I disclosed was through an argument. I was having a disagreement with someone and decided— I say decided, I don't even know how conscious the thought was— to throw this sentence out really just to prove a point and really to wound the person that I was arguing with. And then the moment the words left my mouth, I watched everything start to unravel. I realized how quickly I had disclosed this secret that I had held for 6 years. The abuse had already stopped at that stage, but I kind of— the moment the words are out, you can't put them back in. And so in that argument and then further conversation, another family member was made aware of what have happened, um, that again unraveled in a way that is really quite challenging, um, and was challenging for all of us involved. Um, and though there were things put in place to support me, um, in the sense of I was sent to a psychologist and there were other mental health, um, considerations put in place that was probably most of what happened at that point in time.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 11:34
Right, so you did receive some level of support from those who you disclosed to?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 11:41
Yeah, I did. And I'm also, again, like, everything I say today is through the lens of me today, not through the lens of me at that point in time. In many ways, I think that what was done to support me was also, you know, you do the best with what you know. And, um, and I think in some ways that was maybe what was thought to be best at the time, um, or that all that was needed at the time. Um, but yeah, it was definitely not enough for what I needed and what I had experienced.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 12:18
Yeah. And what, what were you seeking at the time? What support did you need?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 12:24
I think for me, now that I have an understanding of what exists— and, and maybe it didn't exist at the time, and maybe that's part of the problem— but I think with any type of trauma and abuse, there is some real specialized care that needs to be put in place. And, um, there are a range of different psychologists and mental health practitioners out in the world, but not all of them are suited to certain circumstances. And so someone that being sent to someone that was more appropriate from a gender and age perspective. I was sent to a male psychologist who was around the same age as the abuser. So just from that perspective, that just wouldn't make sense to me today if I was supporting a victim-survivor. But also just someone that was specialized in that area of trauma. You know, there's people out there that are great at marriages, relationships, employment programs, whatever it is, and, and they just aren't suited to this particular type of support. Um, so someone specialized, definitely. Ongoing support as well. Um, I just worked out pretty quickly that this wasn't the right fit for me, so I moved out of that circumstance as psychiatrist, but I pretty much just kind of checked myself out of that process, and then nothing else was offered. So, um, and I think also the lack of wanting to understand, so therefore the lack of conversation for me from family members, which is also the challenge. I think when we— it's an incredibly daunting and overwhelming circumstance to have a child disclose to you something like this, but as adults, it's our responsibility to do something about it, to educate ourselves, to do the research, find the resources. It is not the child's responsibility. So again, upon reflection, I think that there could have been a lot more done at the time.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 14:33
Yes. So Caroline, with the trauma of the abuse and the denial of the support that you really needed, What messages about yourself were instilled into you as a young woman, as a teenager?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 14:50
There was a real mix of hurt and betrayal and, and feeling that I wasn't worthy or good enough to have a safe life, to, to be protected, to be supported. But then on the flip side of that, I often would then lean into this hyper-independence. I had this notion in my head that took a very long time to unpack and unpick. I had a notion in my head that I was the only person that I could rely on, which as a 16-year-old is exhausting. But let alone like taking that mindset and that fierce independence and an independence that was often detrimental to my wellbeing into my late teens and adult life. So I wouldn't let people help me. I would get really frustrated if I made a mistake because it was all my fault. And I wouldn't let people in. I was very guarded and closed off. And though I had a lot of friends and I had a lot of people in my life, I don't think many were close enough to really know anything about me. And What's interesting is, like, I ended up keeping this secret for a very long time, and I'm sure we'll speak about that in a moment. But, um, it's been really fascinating since disclosing more publicly and speaking to friends and people that knew me back then, and they're like, how, how did I spend every day with you and not have any idea? And I was like, because I was so closed off that this was a a secret that no one was ever going to find out.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 16:37
Yes, yes. And the turning point came in 2020 when you decided to disclose your experience with your sister. What motivated you to take that step?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 16:52
Yeah, I, um, so my sister is a lot younger than me, she's 8 years younger than me, um, and so I'd spent most of my life just looking out for her. Um, I think big sisters kind of do that with their younger siblings anyway, but having such a big age gap meant that I would often have her on my hip when she was little, and then she would be right by my side when— as she got older. And even, um, as a teenager, she was probably one of the few people that didn't get pushed aside. Um, so we'd always had this really beautiful close relationship, but she didn't know of this abuse. And in some ways it felt really insincere and inauthentic to the relationship that I had and have with her. And I really, I constantly just bounce back and forth of, should I tell her? But if I tell her, this is going to impact her because she's obviously a part of our family as well. And, you know, Heather coming from a big family has a relationship with the perpetrator. And it was so complex.. And there were a few things that triggered my decision to speak with her. One was that level of authenticity and the depth of our relationship that I wanted to continue to have, but knew that there was just this glaring piece that was missing and, and I just couldn't maintain that. Um, but there was also the fact that I'm a parent. Um, I'm an aunt. And so having this next generation come through and though they're not ki— we don't have quite as many cousins and whatever else in the next generation coming through, there's still quite a lot of us and a lot of them, the next generational line. And I was getting to the point where I was like, if I don't say anything, this behavior continues. And so in many ways, it was partly about the transparency I wanted with my sister. It was partly about the next generation coming through. And it was majority about how I was feeling on the inside, I could just feel the cracks forming and knew that I couldn't maintain the life that I was living because I needed to do some really big healing. And the only way I could do that was really not living the life that I was living anymore. Yeah.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 19:15
Reveal, reveal the secret and live with more, with more truth and freedom.
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 19:21
Yeah, exactly.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 19:23
And some relationships within your family. Ended and your relationship with your sister consequently deepened. How did that make you feel?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 19:33
There was definitely a huge fear when I went to visit my sister to share this news. Um, and that's why it had taken so long, because every time I had considered having this conversation with her, I was in such deep dread that she was either not going to believe me or that it was going to end our relationship or damage it in some form. And I'm so grateful that it hasn't. Our relationship is as deep as ever and we are still very close, which is wonderful. But there have been relationships that have either completely severed, be it on my part because I've chosen to estrange myself, or just due to silence. I've gone on to write a memoir, I've shared quite publicly, I am a survivor advocate, I work now in the in the sector and support survivors in lots of different ways. And those, that really big family that I was sharing about earlier, I could probably count on my fingers how many people have reached out to me to either check how I am or to let me know that they've like read my book or whatever else. I was never going to force that on anyone. Like I know people need to come to these things in their own time, especially if there's nothing actually that they need to do. And I made that really clear to the handful of people quite early on that I did share with, or that reached out, that expressed anger or hurt or whatever, not towards me, but towards the situation and the perpetrator. And I made it really clear to them, I said, I'm not 10 anymore. You can't just come, like, I don't need you to rescue me. I just need you to be respectful of the decisions I make moving forward. So if there is a large family gathering and you'd like me to attend, and you'd like this person to attend, that's fine, but give me that transparency because then I can make a decision on if I'm in a good enough place to be able to be there. Because if I'm not and I show up, I'll feel ambushed, and that's not a nice feeling. So transparency was all I'm asking for. I'm not asking for people to end relationships. I'm not asking for people to do anything. I'm just asking for a level of respect and transparency. Um, So that has been really positive with the handful of people I've been able to have those conversations with. But there have been, there's definitely been people that I considered my closest family members who I haven't spoken to in years and who haven't reached out. And that's, that's just really sad. It's a level of grief that I, I hadn't planned for. There was a lot that I was planning for because I knew that this road wasn't going to be easy. But the grief of relationships just disappearing, um, and people choosing silence, um, has been incredibly hard.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 22:32
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can imagine. Be very sad. And just to be clear, your relationship with the perpetrator has, has now finished?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 22:43
Yes, that's right. So, um, that relationship had really kind of like essentially started falling apart anyway. Um, the abuse had stopped. I had made it really clear that I, you know, how I felt. Um, and so that relationship had already become pretty distant over the years. Um, and then in 2020, when I decided to speak with my sister and had some difficult conversations with other family members, um, I made it very clear that this wasn't a 'I'm just ignoring you.' This is a 'I do not want to have anything thing to do with you.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 23:20
Yes, completely understandably. Caroline, let's now talk about your book titled More Than One Thing Can Be True. What motivated you to write your book?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 23:31
It was definitely something that I wanted to do for others. Um, it's interesting because when I look back now, there was definitely still that people-pleasing type behavior that was brewing at that point. Um, I had the idea of writing my book in 2020. I didn't start writing till 2021, um, but I've been in business and been an entrepreneur and a small business owner for quite some time now. And at the time of all this happening in 2020, I was running a really successful business. I'd done a lot of media, um, and before I went to disclose to my sister, I actually met with my publicist and said, hey, we've done all this work and I doubt this is going to end up anywhere near the media, but if it does, like if something happens, what do I do? And she was like, no, that's fine, like we're not concerned, we'll manage it as we need to, so on and so forth. And she said, but what are you planning to do? Like, are you thinking of starting an organization or whatever? And she's just bouncing ideas off me. She's like, I know what you're like and I know how passionate you are about big things, and this is something you're not— I don't anticipate this is just going to be a conversation you have with family. I anticipate I could see you doing a lot more with this. Um, and I said, well, I don't think it's— I don't think it's definitely not a not-for-profit or a charity in the sense that I knew that there were great organizations out there, and I'm like, I can put my work towards supporting them. I said, I think it might be a book because it's It's slower, it's a little more considered, it's a good resource for people, and it's also something I can refer back to on the days that are maybe harder, or someone wants to know something and I can say, well, I wrote about that in this chapter, blah blah blah, and I kind of, in that way.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 25:22
Was the process of writing the book healing for you?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 25:24
Definitely. I, you know, going back over your life in whatever way makes you go back over things, I pulled out old diaries and poems and letters and just anything I could find. And I don't have a lot, but I pulled out anything that I could. Notes from working with counselors, coaches. I reached out to a counselor that I'd had in like my early 20s, and we spoke really briefly. She didn't have much she could offer me because most of the paperwork had gone by that stage. But yeah, it was really, really powerful and So writing was partly for me, but I was always writing for others. In the book, there are chapters dedicated to specific family members where at the end of that chapter I write a letter to them, kind of sharing how I'm feeling at that point in time. There's chapters that are dedicated to survivors as a whole. There's chapters that are dedicated to my two sons, because I think as a survivor, the reality is we live in a world where men are often perpetrators. And so raising safe men has been a really important part of my journey as well. So it was always for a range of other people, and that actually made it much easier to write. I felt very, at times, very self-indulgent writing a book about myself and about like, though I knew it was important, it still felt a bit self-indulgent. So there's lots of research in there around healing modalities and understanding trauma and understanding a range of other things in history that were helpful for me to research because they helped me understand so I could then share that with others as well. So a really, really powerful process that I probably would never do again because it was really hard.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 27:20
The title is thought-provoking, More Than One Thing Can Be True. Can you tell us what that means to you?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 27:27
I love this sentence, this title. I use it so often. I have people like use it back to me in conversation and I just think it's amazing. It is what exactly what it is. When we think about the binary we put on so much in our life, it can be incredibly challenging because the reality is there isn't a lot other than actual colors that are black and white. Like, they just— it's not often that simple. There's a lot of gray in between. And when I thought about my experience of growing up in a very large family with a lot of relationships where myself and the perpetrator existed in this ecosystem, there were parts of him that were good. There were parts of him that I learned a lot from and that I gained a lot from, whilst there were also behaviors and actions that were incredibly hurtful, detrimental to my well-being and my safety. But both of those elements, or all of those elements, are true. And they exist in the one human being, as do mine. I'm not a perfect human. I've made many mistakes in my lifetime. There are many things, if I could go back and change them or undo them, I would, because upon reflection, they were not me at my best self or thinking about the person that was potentially being hurt in the process. Um, again, because of those histories, because of those moments, all the moments in the future, because I I don't think I'm ever going to be a perfect person. Um, that doesn't undo the good that I do in the world. So more than one thing is true, even with me. Um, and the more I spoke to people through the process of understanding survivor healing and doing my own healing and whatever else, that was the part that people really struggle with. They wanted to be able to put someone in a 'that person's a bad person, so we push them to wherever we need to push them. But then I would question them and say, but what if that person was your brother? Or what if that person was your sister? Or what if that person was your best friend and you had grown up with them your whole life? What do you do then? Like, what do you do with all of that life? What do you do with all of that memory? We're having a similar conversation in society at the moment, and there's a book out that my sister actually sent me the COVID of. I can't remember the the author, but I'm curious to pick it up. What do we do with the artists that have created harm? Like, we have musicians in society, we have actors, we have all of these brilliant artists that we then find out are perpetrators of harm. What do we do with the art? Because more than one thing is true. So the sentence doesn't actually give an answer. Like, that's the challenge in the title and in this concept., but it does help us open our minds to the fact that the reality is it's not binary. And do we just go throw out all the art? Do we then just put all the bad people away? What happens in that circumstance? So it's really a question of working out how do we, how do we work with people to rectify behaviors? How do we reduce harm and support people to reduce harm? And change their behaviors. That's really my, my, my personal underlying tone with that, but everyone reads it in a slightly different way.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 31:14
Caroline, we're touching on the subject of forgiveness here. Do you forgive your perpetrator?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 31:21
No, because I don't think forgiveness is something that serves either of us, um, but that's also because I, I don't believe that there's ever been any accountability. There's been an apology, but no accountability. And I think those two are very different. Anyone can say that they're sorry, but if behavior doesn't change, if there isn't real evidence that this person wouldn't do the same thing again if given the opportunity, then I don't think forgiveness for me sits, sits in that space. I'm also like, I know there are definitely some religions or belief practices where forgiveness forms a really important part of the process. In my case, it doesn't. My own healing, my own trauma-informed self-care is the priority. Forgiveness doesn't form a part of that process for me, but I can see why it would for others, definitely.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 32:24
When you did receive the apology from, from the perpetrator, how did you feel? Did it make you feel— give you any sense of peace?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 32:33
It wasn't necessarily peace. It was definitely validation, because there's definitely moments, especially as a child, where you think, what did I do to make this happen? Um, children especially— like, I grew up in the '80s and '90s, like, it was still of that time where children were just blamed for things. There wasn't a lot of child safety in place. Um, so for me it was like, okay, this actually wasn't my fault at all. Um, because you don't apologize for something that was someone else's fault, sort of thing. Um, but I think again, as I was saying before about accountability, it was, it was almost like one of those apologies of when you say to someone, I'm really sorry I made you feel that way. I was like, well, wait a minute, this sounds like an apology, but when I unpick it, it's not really an apology. Um, so it's— the apology was enough for me to, as I said, have validation around knowing that it was definitely not my fault and that I didn't need to take any responsibility in what had happened, but it was still pretty hollow and again wasn't rooted in any form of accountability.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 33:45
So, and Caroline, this podcast, Animals and Us, is really about animals and us, and we haven't yet touched on your major— no, on your major companion and, and, um, source of healing, and that is Louis, of course. Is Louis with you now, or has he left the room?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 34:11
Louie is sitting outside the window in front of me. I'll see if I can— Louie, come! Now he's looking at me like, but I'm watching the world go by, right? That's fine.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 34:23
He might make an appearance later.
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 34:25
Yeah, he might do. I think he's gonna— come here, mate.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 34:29
So Louie entered your life in 2020 during Melbourne's very harsh COVID lockdown. Can you tell us about your first meeting with Louis and the bond that you, you built with him.
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 34:43
So Louis has made his very brief appearance, as we can see. Um, he's in and out. He wants to go watch the world go by at the front of the house. Um, we had another dog. We had two dogs. Um, so we had a gorgeous German Shepherd and Labrador. Our Labrador was getting quite old, and at the start of 2020— I always laugh at this timing because I decided that I was going to tell sister at the start of 2020. Our dog got cancer, and then the lockdown happened. So it was just a really challenging time. But, um, our Labrador— especially Melbourne, which is where we were living at the time— and so our, our gorgeous Labrador, um, got cancer. We had to put him down, um, and we just kind of spent most of the year, especially because we were in and out of the lockdowns in Melbourne, we felt we weren't ready to get another dog yet, just due to the grieving process. We still had our German Shepherd, and it was getting later in the year, and I was thinking, yeah, I think it's almost time, starting to kind of get a bit excited about getting another dog. And we were also being given this, this expectation that we had already done all the lockdowns and we were done, which we well and truly were not by, you know, August, September of 2020. We had many more days to come. We just didn't know that yet in Melbourne. Um, so we found these beautiful— I found these beautiful Border Collie puppies. And what was interesting is when I reached out to the breeder, they were only 5 days old. So I— the day I had gone to search was the day that she had decided to put an ad up. And lo and behold, happened very quickly. So I spoke with her and, well, the first thing that kind of stood out to me was she said, I'm really particular about where my dogs go, um, I need to have a call with you. And I thought, oh, that's interesting, that's— I've never had that before. No problem. So we had a chat on the phone and she was like, I just need to make sure, like, if you've got kids, like, how old are they, kind of temperament are they, um, like, how often is the dog going to be by itself, so on and so forth. And we just chatted for a while and that was it. At that point, I wasn't talking about anything that I was doing in the trauma space because I wasn't really in the trauma space. I, I was going through my own healing journey. It wasn't relevant to like a stranger. And, um, other than our dog passing at the start of the year, um, and already having a dog, that was all that I really shared. Um, my husband and I both worked for ourselves, so we could spend a lot of time with this new dog. So we went to visit, fell in love, like love at first sight. Um, in theory, the dog was supposed to be my youngest son's dog, so he came with me, picked him out, chose his name, all that sort of stuff that you do with kids when they're meant to get a dog. Um, and the moment we brought Louie home, he was just my dog. Like, I just did all the things for him he was just by my side. I just absolutely fell in love with him. And I didn't realize, even our Labrador, my— our Labrador had come into our life. He had been bought for my older son. I was going through a divorce at the time from my first marriage, and our Labrador had been a therapy dog to me. Like, now that I look back on it, 100%, like, that's what had happened. And I had such a soft spot for him. That's why it took so long to even make a decision about getting another dog to in theory, replace him. So over time— so Louis comes home to us December of 2020, and by April 2021, that's when I started writing my memoir. So I'm deep in the work, um, I'm writing, he's just kind of at my feet every day. On the days that I genuinely just didn't want to be around people, and we're stuck in our house at this stage, we're in deep lockdown, we can only leave 5-kilometer radius of our houses. Like, it's really tough in Melbourne. Um, he was just the best. Like, he was just there with me every day, and our bond is just incredible. And it's gone on to create this beautiful work that we now do together. But, um, yeah, I'll forever be indebted to him for just being that very nurturing support that I needed at a time that I didn't even know what a therapy dog was. So yeah. Hmm.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 39:13
And what made you decide to train Louis as an official therapy dog?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 39:19
Well, what's funny is one of the reasons why we also waited a little while to get another dog is because our other dogs had come into our lives when we were just really busy. So they weren't trained very well. They were great dogs, but they weren't trained very well. We couldn't be super social with them. And so I'd said to my husband, when we get a new dog, I'm going to invest the time in training this dog really, really well. And so the moment Louie came into our lives, I started doing dog training with him. I found a place in Melbourne. They had a particular style that was only voice command, so no treats or clickers or other things. So many different ways to train a dog. And so we started this foundational dog training, puppy training, and different levels and whatever else. And it was a really great thing to do consistently in and out of these lockdowns, and to have something to focus on that wasn't the trauma work that I was doing, it wasn't my normal job, wasn't kind of navigating the COVID lockdowns. It just gave me something to do. Um, so our training got really strong, and, and his obby— dog obedience training was really great. That was wonderful because it meant that we had this really well-trained dog that we could take anywhere and in theory most of the time listen to me and what I had to say. Most like Dogs are still dogs and they still can be a bit sneaky. Um, and then I started doing some coaching work after I'd released my memoir, after I'd kind of done some training, um, through a coaching academy. And when I started working with clients, I had local clients that said, I can always see your dog in the background of the Zoom meetings. 'Is there any chance we could just meet so I can also hang out with your dog?' And I was like, 'Yeah, of course, definitely.' Why do you think people were attracted to Louis and wanted that closer contact with him? It's interesting because he, um, doesn't do much when he's like— if he's sitting in here, he's literally on this couch and he's asleep. Like, he's not doing much. Um, but I share a lot about him on my social media and whatever else, and so I think just from a temperament perspective, they could just tell they were dog people. He looked like a lovely dog to be around. And the first time I had a client— so the client would come to our home, which again isn't the setting for a therapy dog because dogs need to be in— like, I feel the dog needs to be in a working mode. And, and we have clear differentiators where he knows he's in work mode and then he's just being Louis, sort of thing, even now in the work that we do. And I watched this client come in. She sat with him, and the way he approached her and the way he sat with her, and then she sat on the floor so she could be closer to him. And I was just— it was like watching something that I had no idea was just right under my nose. And our session ran as normal, but she sat on the floor with Louis the whole time. She was talking through something that was challenging and She pretty much just locked eyes with Louie and talked through it. And I was like, wow, because I just thought he was just like that. I was like, this is just Louie and this is what he does with me and this is how he is. And to a certain extent, it's true that it is just how he is. So I think it's definitely— animals are incredible as a whole, but similar to humans, there are some humans that are really good at certain things and good at— and other humans are good at other things. And so Louie is really, really good at being calm and settling people in and really just sitting with them for long enough that they just drop their guard to do whatever they need to do. Now that whatever they need to do could just be sitting and patting Louie, but if they're in a coaching session with me or some of the other work that we do now, it makes such a difference. So I had some pretty big goals of a few things that I wanted to do in my business. And I thought if I create a whole umbrella or a whole kind of concept of all the different offerings, I think Louie could be a part of this. So I researched therapy dogs and I looked at all the different types of organizations that are here. We're based in Southeast Queensland on the Gold Coast, um, and I just came across one that was the right fit for us. There are a few reasons why they were the right fit. Um, one, I really loved their communication style, the way that they did their training, um, and just how value-based they were in the sense that they have a podcast and they have like articles on their website and there was so much you could do before actually having to hand over a dollar. And I'm a bit the same. Like I give out a lot of information and a lot of resources because I want people to have the thing. Um, and then if they get to a point where they need something, then there's things that they can purchase, sort of thing. So I really loved that alignment there from a values perspective, value-based perspective. Um, but what was probably the easiest decision is that the dog training component was exactly the same style of dog training we had already done. So we'd already ticked like a massive box, and I just had to learn the animal-assisted therapy components of the theory and the understanding and whatever else. So yeah, we did the training. I say we— Louis slept. I spent days on Zoom. I did like written assessments and bits and pieces, and he had a great time napping. We did some dog obedience components, and then We were accredited quite quickly, so it was pretty great.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 45:09
So Louie is now an accredited therapy dog. What, what is his job description?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 45:16
It's funny because his job description seems like I'm just having a laugh, because his whole job is to sit with people and get pats and belly rubs. That's his whole job. Dog. Like, there's, there's amazing therapy dogs. It's a great job. He's got the best dog ever out of all the dogs. We had a— so I'm a breathwork facilitator as well as a coach, and we had a breathwork session for a private group this week. And it's always interesting when I'm booked for this kind of work because when people come through our services, I know who they are. They'll often have sent me a message and whatever else. So there's a little bit of an interaction beforehand, but when we're booked for a private session, we don't know who's coming. Um, a lot of the private sessions that we are booked for here on the Gold Coast are through organizations that support sexual and domestic violence survivors, predominantly because of the work that I already do. Um, and people are starting to hear more about the work that Louie and I do together and booking us for their private groups. So we had a private session for a group of women who are doing a domestic violence health and wellbeing program through a local organization here. So as they arrived, each, each one kind of comes through the door and he slowly makes his way over, sits at their feet, waits for a pat, walks over with them as they go to their yoga mat, waits for them to sit, sits down next to them, waits for another pat, eventually settles in, lays down, gets a belly rub, whatever else. The moment the next person comes to the door, he's up back up to greet the next person, does the thing. And the first question most people will say is, did you teach him how to do that? I'm like, no, definitely not. He is super keen to meet new people. He loves meeting new people, so that's kind of a natural trait for him. He knows he's not allowed to run up to people. He knows he's not allowed to jump on people. I've trained him to not jump, and I've trained him to not have any of that overexcitable behavior because that was part of our dog training anyway, and then has been a consistent part of our therapy dog training. So that really considered approach that he has with everyone he meets, especially children— we don't work with children very often, but especially little children— he will make his way up nice and slow. He knows to sit down first. You can come to him and you can let your guard down in your own time, but he shows people this level of respect, especially trauma survivors. That is something that they don't often get from human beings. So to get that from Louis is really special. And then to be able to then settle in, sometimes they don't say much through those kind of sessions. I might not even find out their name sometimes, but he has already built a rapport with them. And then the next time I see that person, they'll either say, say hi to Louis for me, or how's Louis doing, or whatever else. And like, I don't need them to know who I am. Like, that connection and that level of joy or calmness or whatever else is all that he needs to do. And that's purely it. Like, he doesn't do any fancy tricks, he doesn't need to do much. And he can— like, he's a really smart dog and there's so many things that he could do, but it's pretty simple stuff.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 48:41
I've had experience of Border Collies in my past as, as sheepdogs, and they're They are extremely intelligent and friendly, and I can well imagine that Louie would be— would make a wonderful therapy dog. Caroline, can you share an experience of a profound bond, or a profound bond between one of your clients and Louie?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 49:05
I think there's just so many. I'm like, I'm trying to think of one specific story. Uh, I definitely have found when I run women's workshops. Um, so I run breathwork women's workshops, which are a combination of breathwork and a range of other practices to help people that are on their healing journey. Um, and I'm always fascinated at the start, like, it's overwhelming to walk into a workshop with strangers knowing that you're all there because something, you know, you've been through some hard things. Um, watching people settle really quickly because Louie's there is always wonderful. But even just the other day, we had a breathwork session at a sexual violence therapy center here on the Gold Coast that we do some work with them. Um, Louie is their resident therapy dog, so if people want to have him in their therapy sessions, they can opt to have that, and we volunteer that service to the center. But we also— I also run workshops shops there. Um, and there was a woman who sat with Louis, and she was fine at the beginning, and then she had a really big emotional moment and just lay on the floor with him and let it all out, and then went out to the bathroom to kind of compose herself. And she came back in, and before she left, she just looked at him and just thanked him. And there was just this, like, what— being a witness to something so profound and there aren't really words for that because I don't have to do much. Like, I'm there to support Louis, he's there to do whatever he needs to do. And yeah, I have little kind of reflection cards that they fill in afterwards, and she'd written a few things that she then shared with me, and it had been just the moment that she really needed. It was only a half an hour session, it was really short, but it was exactly what she needed. But the way that she thanked Louis was one of those things where I'm like, they've had this unspoken moment that I don't ever need to know about, um, but she will forever remember that moment with him. And I think that's really—
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 51:16
yes, yes, with deep gratitude, I'm sure. So she just felt so safe in the presence of both you, you and Louis.
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 51:25
Definitely. And just being safe enough to, to let that go. Because we're holding on for so often so long and holding on so tightly. So as humans, just getting through the day, let alone trauma survivors.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 51:39
Yes. Yeah. Caroline, you do breathwork sessions with often with Louie in the room. What, what, why did you choose breathwork as your choice of therapy?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 51:52
So I had been doing the coaching for a little while and it's really powerful and I love being a coach. Um, talking is tricky sometimes, and I wanted to have a skill and a, a somatic practice that I could offer to clients that if we were in a session and I could tell they were struggling or that the words just weren't going to work that day, that we could do something else. And I had experienced breathwork and thought, wow, what is this? And I want to know more about this. When I come across something that I just love, I need to know all about it. Um, so what's interesting is I had my first breathwork session in this particular year in November. By January, I was registered to start my training. So it didn't take me very long to know that this was the thing. Um, and since then it's been really wonderful because I offer breathwork to centers and organizations and that work within that trauma survivor support space. And I use it with my own clients, um, be it in a one-on-one session or weaving it into coaching. But I also offer it to the general public. And so people can just book to come to the breathwork classes that I hold. And, um, Louie is 100% the star of the show because they often book to come to see Louie because they've heard about him or they've seen him at something or whatever else. Um, and then they get to experience breathwork and then they love the combination of those two things— animal-assisted therapy, the breathwork— and they come back again and again.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 53:30
What does Louie do during sessions?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 53:33
Similar to what I was sharing before, so he greets people, he gets lots of cuddles. During the actual session, the moment I start facilitating, he hears the words I say and he normally curls up on his bed, has a little nap. If someone starts to either get really fidgety, if they have an emotional release, he might go over to them and have a little nuzzle up next to them and kind of just let them know that he's there and that they're okay. Sometimes he won't actually touch them, he'll just lay next to them. Um, and it's almost like an energetic thing. He's just there for his presence. Then when they do open their eyes, he's right there and, and they can get that support kind of post their breathwork. Um, very similar to the coaching and the workshops that we do. His role doesn't change all that much. Um, He's definitely a great receptionist as well, especially in our studio.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 54:20
I can imagine.
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 54:21
And like, it's the cutest thing. He just, he's so adorable in that sense, especially people that haven't come before. They really love that. So yeah, um, it's normally the pre and post breathwork that Louis shines, um, and he makes sure that he spends a little bit of time with everyone so everyone gets a little bit of that Louis love. Yeah.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 54:42
Caroline, can you, uh, show us or guide us through your go-to breathing exercise for immediate stress relief?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 54:53
Yeah, definitely. So I— there's a lot of different styles of breathwork that you can do, but I normally recommend that people just remember 6 by 6. So what that means is taking an inhale for a count of 6, exhaling for a count of 6, 6 times. It's very simple, um, all through the nose. I recommend this particular style only through the nose. That being said, you might use the last exhale and do a nice big sigh to really kind of let everything out before you return back to your normal breathing and back to whatever you're doing. Um, so I'll count it in, um, just so people can kind of get a bit of an idea of how slow the count is. So Breathing in through the nose for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and out 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. So you would do that 6 times quite slowly. You'd be amazed at just slowing down the breath, how much you start sinking into yourself. If you get to 6 and you still feel intense, do another 6. It's not going to take too long. Um, you can do as many as you like, but if you've only got a few minutes to spare and you really just feel a bit like, I just need to gather myself, 6 by 6. Yeah, 6 by 6.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 56:24
And you have another exercise which you call the Louie moment. Can you guide us through that?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 56:31
Yeah, definitely. Um, so we try to get Louie kind of right into the session or the person's space, and I get them to have a breathwork component there with him. So they might be patting him, they might be talking through something, but we're, we're concentrating on the breath at the same time. Most of the time when he's really settled next to someone, he's lying on his side, you can see he's breathing. So I'll get them to put their hand on his, on his belly feeling that rise and fall, connecting with his breath, really kind of bringing that connection back in. Um, that can definitely be done like more in a one-on-one setting or whatever else, but those moments are really special. And, um, we sometimes do private sessions with children, um, especially neurodivergent children or children that are experiencing anxiety or other mental health challenges. Um, and they don't often want to do breathwork because they're like, what is that? I don't want to sit still and breathe. But I can incorporate those elements with Louie, which make it super exciting because they're purely there to hang out with him. And that's the best part for kids.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 57:43
Yes. Yes. Um, Caroline, as a survivor coach, what is your main goal in helping adult survivors in a coaching capacity?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 57:54
For me, the most important thing and the most the most important goal is helping to empower the survivor to know that they have everything they need to do the next thing that they want to do. Um, so my, my responsibility as a coach is to create the space for them to, to show up for themselves and, and to simply be in that space, and then to almost hold the mirror up to their skills and their how far they've already gotten to get to this point. As survivors, we are often in survival mode. We've worked really hard to get here, but we underestimate how hard we've worked and the things that we've really needed. So I try to encourage people to really bring it back to themselves. I don't have the answers for them because every circumstance is different. I don't try to paint myself out to be some kind of guru that's going to have all the answers. I'm really there to empower them. And remind them that they have full autonomy, sovereignty, control, power, and skill. So many skills. Um, and having someone genuinely believe that in you is sometimes all you need because, um, maybe you haven't had someone believe you and believe in you in that way for a really long time. And so that in itself is really powerful.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 59:16
Yes. Yeah. And Caroline, as a survivor of sexual abuse, who may be thinking, "I might be ready to tell someone," what advice would you give them that is safe for them to do so?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 59:31
I often recommend that survivors start by telling themselves their story. And I know that seems strange because we're talking about disclosure, but when you're able to either write down your story say it to yourself in a particular way. Sometimes I encourage people to use like the voice memo or the voice note on their phone and just talk it out. Um, you'd be surprised at the things you'll trip up on. You'll be surprised at the things you may still question. Um, facts, details, feelings. And that in itself can be a really powerful exercise, a really challenging one. But the reason I remind people to start with themselves is because it, it's about you. And so when you believe yourself, when you are capable and confident in, in sharing these words to yourself, by yourself, in whatever format is best for you, you're going to be really deeply rooted in your truth.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 1:00:40
Yes.
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 1:00:41
And then the next person you go to speak to, whoever that person is, it may be the perpetrator. It may be a family member, it may be your best friend, it may be a psychologist or some kind of practitioner that is there to support you. Whoever is going to be that person, especially if they're the first person, you are already deeply rooted in your truth and you have spent enough time with yourself to trust yourself and know yourself. And, and then you're sharing this for whatever reason you're sharing this. You're sharing it because you need the person to know, if it's a family member or a friend or someone in your life, or you're sharing this with a practitioner because you're seeking support because of the trauma symptoms. So it may be that you're not sleeping well, it may be that you're experiencing mental health concerns, it may be that you're having physical, um, health issues. Whatever the case may be, they're all symptoms of trauma, and we seek different things for those. But believing your truth and having that grounded knowing is something that's actually a lot harder than what we realize. So working with that first means that no matter who you tell, you're less likely to feel wobbly in that moment, or as wobbly in that moment, because you've spent enough time with yourself just really knowing your truth.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 1:01:58
Yes. And what advice would you give to family or, or friends of a survivor who've just received the truth, the disclosure?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 1:02:11
Uh, firstly, this isn't about you. Um, so just park any of those things that are coming up. It could be that emotions are coming up and you're feeling guilt, you're feeling sadness, you're feeling angry, whatever the case may be. Um, again, it's not about you. So really tuning into that active listening, that empathy, seeing what the survivor needs. And that's probably the first thing you should ask is, what do you need from me right now, and how can I best support you? Because the survivor will likely know that. And if they don't know that, be okay with the fact that they're like, I don't know right now, let me come back to you. Don't push it. Um, some survivors will purely need you to listen. Some will need you to support them in their next step of action. Some will need to just keep talking for a little while. It's going to be different for everyone, but if you barrel on and start taking them down a particular route because you think that they need to find a psychologist when they didn't really ask for that in the first place, you're gonna just end up in a really— they may not even speak about it again because they just feel like you've taken over. So respecting their autonomy and and leaning back into that at every point in that discussion, holding back on anything that you're feeling. If you need to speak to someone about how you're feeling, it isn't the survivor, it's someone else that you need to seek support in a way that also respects that person's confidentiality as well. But yeah, I think people can get really stuck with those things and they do them automatically, just not thinking, really human. Human nature, like they're trying to be helpful so they rattle off all these ideas, or they think they're showing empathy but they're actually showing sympathy and they start kind of saying, oh, that's so sad, and blah blah blah, and it ends up being a little bit of a train wreck for people.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 1:04:05
So yes, yes, so the reaction needs to be taken with care.
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 1:04:10
Yes, very much so.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 1:04:13
Caroline, what has Louis taught you mostly about healing?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 1:04:19
That it just takes time. I'm a fast-moving person. I, and I, I like A to B instructions and for things to move at a particular pace, and healing just doesn't work like that. And it's peaks and troughs. And what was kind of fascinating about training a dog and getting a dog at this exact point in time, which which served as a great distraction at times, was that in our training together, there would be days where I'd walk into the dog training center, I was like, we've got this, we're gonna do our assessment today, we're gonna go to the next level. And we get there, he's like, nah, I'm not listening to anything you're saying today. Like, what do you mean? What's going on? And healing can be a bit the same. You can be like, I've gone to my psychologist, did my journaling today, I did this and I did that and I'm following the healing roadmap. And then something happens and it could just be a song that's playing in the supermarket and you're, that's it. You're done for the day. And you think, wait a minute, how can I be doing all these things right and have this one random thing happen and I'm done for the day. So just patience, that patience, that pace. Changes all the time. And, um, yeah, he— self-love, very much so. And just slowing down, like remembering to give yourself grace. Um, I've never watched someone— I say someone, I talk about Louis like he's a person because he pretty much is in my life— I've never watched someone do what seems like so little, like those examples of those healing moments he's had with people, but for it to be so much, and then for him to know exactly what he needs after. So this particular example that I gave earlier about this woman having this big release and then thanking him, I knew how much he had carried in that moment. So we came home, and even though I had a few things to do, I changed my clothes and I took him to the park and I just let him roll on the grass. Because I knew exactly what he needed. I'm like, he sat so still while that lady lay pretty much on top of him and cried for a good 10 minutes. That's a lot to carry. Let's go and do the self-care piece for you. And then he napped all afternoon. And in theory, his job is to get belly rubs and cuddles, right? But he is such an example of how to look after yourself, how to rest when you need, how to be playful and silly when you can. Um, dogs, that's just the best joy. Yeah, they certainly are.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 1:07:10
And Caroline, it would be fitting now to, to finish this conversation perhaps by sharing your dedication that you wrote for Louis in your book.
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 1:07:20
Would you mind sharing that? Yeah, I've got it here. I was saying to you before we started of recording that I'm probably going to cry. I can't remember the last time I read these words. So we'll see. We'll see if I can get through it without shedding a tear. So it's a short chapter essentially to our dogs as a whole, but it reads: To our dogs, the late Sam, who was— see, Sam's already got me. To our dogs, the late Sam, who was always my go-to for comfort over the years. Thank you for all the love you gave me and the time we had together. To Spike, my gentle giant, thank you for watching over me on those long days of writing and for the secret cuddles when Louis wasn't looking. To my Louis, thank you for simply being you. I didn't think I could love a dog the way that I love you, but the comfort and love you have brought me in the short time you've been by my side is phenomenal. You have sat with me on some of my hardest days Grief. Thank you for being such a beautiful soul, my little one. Spike has also passed since I wrote that. Um, he was our beautiful German Shepherd who we lost at the start of 2023. So we've had some gorgeous dogs in our time. And yeah, and I think we might hopefully introduce a new one to our life maybe be next year. So we'll see. Dogs will always be in our life at some point, and always. Yeah.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 1:08:52
Caroline, thank you for sharing that dedication with us, and thank you for sharing your whole story with us. Where can people find your book or contact you regarding your services?
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 1:09:06
Yeah, definitely. My website is carolinebruni.com, and that's where you'll find my memoir. So, um, it is available on my if you purchase it through there, you get a signed copy. But it's also available through Amazon, Booktopia, some of the bigger publications. And if you are an audiobook person, I narrate the audiobook, so that's also downloadable as well. On our website, Louis has a whole page on the website, so if you just were hanging to hear more about Louis, then head to the website, look for the Meet Louie page and you can see lots of photos of him, lots of him in action doing breathwork and other things. Um, and that's where you'll also see, um, coaching, breathwork, and other services as well.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 1:09:55
Thanks very much, Caroline. Really appreciate your time.
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 1:09:59
Thanks so much for having me.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 1:10:03
Animals and Us is a production of Kintsugi Heroes. Thank you to Xavier Rudd for his permission permission to use "Follow the Sun" as our theme music for this series.
Caroline Brunne (Guest) · 1:10:15
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