Dr Amanda Beer
The School of the Wolves: What Broken Animals Teach Us About Healing
A psychologist discovers that rescued wolves teach traumatized young people to reclaim their voice and occupy space without apology.
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Kintsugi Studio
Dr Amanda Beer
A psychologist discovers that rescued wolves teach traumatized young people to reclaim their voice and occupy space without apology.
Hear this story
Dr Amanda Beer is a psychologist who discovered that traumatised young people find their voice and reclaim their place in the world by working alongside rescued wolves. What started as a psychology practice in Seattle became something else entirely when she found Wolf Connection, a sanctuary in the Angeles National Forest near Los Angeles where wolves and humans heal together.
At Wolf Connection, Dr Beer works with youth from the probation system, foster care, and expulsion schools, along with adults and veterans. The wolves here are rescued animals: some abused, some neglected, some simply misunderstood by well-meaning owners who did not speak wolf. A young woman who arrived in an oversized sweatshirt, convinced she was not an animal person, saw herself reflected in Mikey, a wolfdog who hid because he felt unworthy. For the first time in the program, she spoke her story. A wolf named Mia, whose vocal cords were severed by a previous owner, still howls with the pack, teaching people who felt silenced that the instinct to raise their voice cannot truly be taken away. Another wolf, Kenai, took nine years to trust a leash after terrified hands tried to domesticate him, before he finally found confidence in an environment where he could be himself.
Dr Beer lives in a trailer in the sanctuary, waking to the wolves' howls. She learned from a wolf named Willow that occupying space is not about thinking confidence but about feeling your energy expand beyond your body. The wolves teach what therapy alone cannot: that being present, intentional, and rooted in who you are is a skill every living thing carries. And that skill, once remembered, changes everything.
“That's my, that's my story. I'm Mikey.”
“What do you make of the fact that this wolf whose vocal cords were severed, still howls? You know, so we can kind of sit with what that lesson brings to us and the power of a being who won't allow their voice to be taken away by someone else.”
“The way the wolf is, like, maybe there's a threat in the environment and I'm still okay. I'm still in this moment. The environment doesn't dictate who we are. We, you know, the wolves teach us to know who we are, trust who we are, and move through the world with a kind of grace and power that makes space for ourselves and others.”
The hero, today
Wolves teach us that everything they do is intentional and present, and they know who they are without seeking validation or doubting themselves, which is a purity of consciousness that humans can learn from. When people see their own hidden pain reflected in the story of a traumatized animal, they often find the safety to speak their own story for the first time. A wolf whose vocal cords were severed still howls with the pack, showing people whose voices were silenced that the instinct to raise their voice and be heard won't die, even under profound harm. Wolves are hardwired to heal and move toward recovery, and Dr Amanda Beer believes that capacity lives within every person who has survived trauma, even when the pain makes it hard to notice. We have demonized wolves the same way we stereotype and label children and young people as criminals or bad, and healing happens when we get curious about what we've learned to fear instead of acting on that fear.
Yes. Dr Amanda Beer is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Wolves teach us that everything they do is intentional and present, and they know who they are without seeking validation or doubting themselves, which is a purity of consciousness that humans can learn from.
When people see their own hidden pain reflected in the story of a traumatized animal, they often find the safety to speak their own story for the first time.
A wolf whose vocal cords were severed still howls with the pack, showing people whose voices were silenced that the instinct to raise their voice and be heard won't die, even under profound harm.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 00:01
Welcome to another episode of Animals and Us, where we explore and honor the awesomeness of animals and our relationships with them. Today I'm joined by Dr. Amanda Beer, a licensed psychologist, educator, and the executive director at Wolf Connection, an educational sanctuary and wilderness retreat in California. At Wolf Connection, rescued wolves become companions and teachers in transformative programs for people recovering from trauma. Amanda's work bridges clinical psychology and deep connection with wolves. She collaborates with both the human program team and the resident wolves to create experiences of healing, resilience, and connection. Amanda joins us today to discuss what she calls the School of the Wolves and what it's like to live and work among them. Hello, Amanda, and welcome to Animals and Us.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 01:02
Thank you, wonderful to be here.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 01:05
I am so grateful for your presence on this podcast. I've been in awe of The Wolf Connection since 2012 when I had the privilege of actually visiting the sanctuary and meeting Tío, the founder. And it's a unique organization from my understanding where you where both the trauma wolves who have suffered trauma and people who have suffered trauma both benefit. You've created a model that, that works, and it works well. It's brilliant, and I'm really looking forward to this conversation.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 01:40
Thank you, Amanda.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 01:41
Can we start from the beginning and your, your early life, your childhood, and perhaps what led you to psychology?
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Wolves are hardwired to heal and move toward recovery, and Dr Amanda Beer believes that capacity lives within every person who has survived trauma, even when the pain makes it hard to notice.
This conversation includes growing up with animals, anxiety and the pull toward healing, the magazine ad that changed everything, how wolf connection began, what wolves actually are and the school of the wolves.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 01:52
Yeah, I suppose the exciting thing to say was that I was raised by wolves, but I wasn't. And of course, I never would have imagined doing this work in my life, but I was drawn to animals from a young age. My dad had grown up on a farm and was deeply connected to that more nature, agricultural world, having horses and dogs around. And my mom's family as well had always had animals as part of the family. So from my earliest memory, I had a buddy that was a German Shepherd that I remember growing up with. And yeah, maybe like most kids before we get conditioned, I just felt very connected to nature. And two primary memories are one being with Nanook, the German Shepherd, in our backyard. And I also used to go— we had this big pine tree that had like an opening in the center. And so I would go in there and kind of play. It was like an already made treehouse. And so sometimes I look back on that and think, you know, that I was always meant to just be present and not in an office, but be, be in the natural world.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 03:21
Um, it's interesting that your first dog was a German Shepherd because they, in, they look quite similar, don't they?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 03:28
Yeah, yeah. I suppose that, you know, we encounter a lot of people here who have had run-ins with big dogs or scared of big dogs or have had animals like German Shepherds used against them. They're police dogs here. But I obviously had a different experience growing up with, you know, with two large dogs. And like you said, specifically— and he was a German Shepherd Husky mix, a little bit more German Shepherd. And many of our wolves and wolfdogs are wolves mixed with Huskies or were German Shepherds. So perhaps it was just meant to be. Yeah. Yeah.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 04:06
And Amanda, what drew you to the world of psychology?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 04:11
Great question. You know, I think classically, well, curiosity has always driven me. It's probably why I have my PhD and went to school so long. It's not necessarily that I love the academic part of school, but I was just always curious to learn more. And then I think maybe going through my own life experiences as I became a teenager and, you know, struggled with anxiety and depression and all the things. Maybe we, you know, our ancestors coming of age had a lot of support. And working with teenagers, I sometimes reflect on my own experience of It's not the same in today's world. You know, we're often figuring out ourselves either alone or in the midst of like a lot of other teenagers and young people versus necessarily an adult, a community of adults who are holding a container for us or kind of encouraging us to be our truest selves. Um, so from my own experiences and also and having family members deal with primarily depression. I think that I just really wanted to understand. And I think I was really drawn towards healing. But growing up in the US and Indiana, Midwest state, I didn't have any run-ins with healers. I mean, psychology was already kind of far out. That wasn't necessarily a popular thing to study or or to do. But I think I was— looking back, I think I was really drawn to healing.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 05:53
Yeah.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 05:53
And so psychology was the, you know, the most reasonable path to take. Yes, and well known.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 06:00
And you were working as a psychologist in Seattle. What called you from that to wolves?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 06:08
Yeah, yeah. I was actually, um, you know, I got here about 10 years ago, and prior to that I was living in Seattle. I was working in private practice practice, which I never, you know, necessarily anticipated to do. I thought maybe I would be in academia, but ended up in private practice. And we would advertise our profiles on Psychology Today. It's a website in the States where people, where clients can find you. And so we would get the Psychology Today magazine. And in that magazine, I would flip through it. And often see this ad for wolf therapy. And I feel like we often hear talk about answering the howl, and I feel like the wolves were calling to me back then, and I had no idea. Like Maya and Bo and Malo, these wolves that I would come to meet, were staring at me through this page of a magazine and calling to me. And what I was thinking cognitively was like, this can't be real. Like, wolf therapy? It was, um, and it ended up being the, the group doing the advertisement was called Promises. It's a rehab center, and they used to work with Wolf Connection and bring clients here, and ended up being the first program I would work here. And so it just felt very synchronistic that that ad just kept calling to me, and I did, you know, I didn't think much of it other than something was awakening in me. About returning to the passion and love for working with animals and integrating that with the people part. Um, and then at some point my ex got a job offer in Los Angeles and I thought, you know, my head thought Los Angeles, but my heart said, oh, you're, you're going to Los Angeles. And then upon, you know, that process of moving, something, something triggered me to look at that ad again. Cause I thought maybe I'll look into equine therapy or some way to be more nature.. And it sparked that memory of the ad, and I went and looked, and this place that I thought was probably in the northern states of the US was in right outside of Los Angeles in Acton, California. And the rest is history. I mean, I reached out to volunteer, and it's probably one of the first things I did after we moved here was come out for a volunteer orientation, and I never left.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 08:34
So you're the executive, now the executive director of Wolf Connection. Can you tell us about the organization and its mission and what it actually does?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 08:44
Yeah, yeah. So I feel very fortunate to have this role of executive director. Our founder, Teo Alfaro, he started the organization 15 years ago and has as he moved on to other things, trusted me enough to, you know, support my leadership here. And, you know, Wolf Connection is a wolf sanctuary, but the true mission is a human empowerment organization. So Teo— I won't give the full story, but the short form of the story is Teo ended up with a wolf dog puppy that his wasn't working out for his neighbor, and at the same time was doing empowerment work, anti-bullying work with youth in Hollywood and other parts of LA. And, you know, little did he know that these worlds were going to collide. And as he raised Tala, he realized, I think after she destroyed his couch, that she might need a friend, another wolf or wolfdog. So he went looking and came across Sixteen. Wolves and wolfdogs that needed a home. And he was continuing to do this work with youth. And, you know, like many of us that, you know, are healers or therapists or work with young people or adults, sometimes it can take a lot to— you don't always see change. And so he was noticing it was kind of hard to get through to these young people. And then, of course, had the epiphany to maybe connect them with the wolves. And so he brought a group out and just watched them shift before his eyes. You know, young people that hadn't said a word started like laughing and opening up and sharing their story. And I, you know, I like to say in that moment Wolf Connection was born. And he eventually took on the lives of all those wolves and wolfdogs. And it took a while to convince high schools and other places to bring Youth out to be with wolves, but he had the courage to pursue that. And then over time, we've gained a reputation, um, for it making a huge impact, not just on youth, but, you know, we've worked with adults who are veterans, previously incarcerated adults. We do a Women and Wolves program, and it seems to get at something beyond we can— what we can do, which is like talk therapy or traditional forms of healing. And so we have the privilege to continue to do and expand that work.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 11:18
Yeah, so it's well established and successful. Fantastic. Amanda, most of our audience is Australian. We really have very little knowledge of what wolves are like other than the reputation being largely wild animals and perhaps dangerous animals. But very much like our Australian dingoes, I imagine that much of our beliefs about wolves are, um, are not, not true. Can you give us a picture of what wolves are really like? The truth of wolves, right?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 11:54
Unfortunately, you have the image of Daisy behind me to give me an actual reflection. Um, and thank you for having me on all the way from Australia. I'm guessing Australians like have dogs. A lot of people have dogs.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 12:08
Yeah, very popular. We have— yep.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 12:10
Yeah.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 12:11
Yeah, pet ownership is very popular.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 12:14
Yes, you know, one way I think about it, if we as humans think back to our ancestors that lived on the land, or, you know, Indigenous groups who continue to be deeply connected and live with the land, we put that kind of in our body, in our mind's eye, and then imagine your dog, their ancestors, when they were deeply connected to the land and independent of humans. That's what you feel with a wolf. Meaning we have domesticated ourselves and dogs to live in this, you know, sometimes our dogs come up and like they want to please us and lick us or jump all over us. Like we've conditioned them to almost be a representation of our worth. Or because we want to be loved, or we want to have a companion. Um, and before we had egos, before we thought of things like that, we just lived in the present moment, just deeply connected to what is, not trying to be anything, not seeking love, not looking for affection, just being present. And that's what you get with a wolf. So genetically very similar to dogs, But the way— I mean, they have these gold eyes that just like pierce you with presence, not aggression, just this, this presence, curiosity, living in the moment. And if they approach you, it's, it's— they don't do anything on accident. It's just like purely intentional, this very, um, relaxed poised, intentional movement. Um, and compared to dogs, they're really quite shy. So again, we've domesticated dogs to be our allies and companions, and, you know, we, we co-evolved with wolves and walked together. Um, but wolves in the wild, and the wolves and wolfdogs that come to Wolf Connection, yes, they do bond with us over time and create relationships, But like many, probably like all quote unquote wild animals that we're afraid of, they know humans are the predominant predator. They're more scared of us. Yeah. So for every time a human hears of an attack or, you know, something happening with a wild animal, there are millions of examples of nothing happened. You didn't see the wild animal. Or know that they were there, but they knew you were there and they stayed away. Yes. And so that— I mean, I hope that gives some example of, um, their kind of more primal way of being in the world.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 15:07
There is something special about their eyes. I'm looking at Daisy behind you and her, her eyes, they just— they're so deep and They seem to have such wisdom about them.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 15:21
Yeah, yeah.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 15:22
Amazing. And she's only, in the photo, I think we've said, mentioned before, she's only 1 year old.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 15:27
She's only 1 year old in that photo. Amazing. She still has the same eyes.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 15:33
Amazing, beautiful eyes. What do you mostly love and admire about wolves?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 15:43
I mean, this might not be the only time I say this today, they're just so fiercely present. And so, like I just mentioned, that everything they do is intentional. And, um, it just— it wouldn't dawn on them to doubt themselves or question their place, or there's just this like purity. There's a purity of like consciousness, a purity of presence. They're also deeply forgiving, right? You know, having worked directly with them, and these are all wolves and wolfdogs from captivity. We don't take animals from the wild. They were either someone's illegal pet or perhaps legal pet or came from a fur farm, but So they have some experience with humans in captivity, um, but there's just this, um, just deep presence and curiosity and connection to themselves and everything around them that for me it's, it's something beyond words. Like those piercing eyes, that presence connects to something in me that, um, you know, awakens my own presence, my own, like, remembering of, you know, something more than just this superficial human life.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 17:19
Would you say— would you describe it as a spiritual connection, a deeper spiritual connection?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 17:25
Yeah, there are things I like to say. I considered myself kind of a hardcore atheist before I came to Wolf Connection, and now I mean, just the magic that happens with them. There's, you know, I consider spiritually— spirituality maybe a knowing of something more than just what we can see with our two human eyes. Yeah, yeah. It just feels undeniable at times being in the wolf's presence that there isn't something more like majestic and bigger to connect with.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 18:05
Yes, I can imagine. You sometimes describe your organization and the program as the School of the Wolves. What do wolves teach us about trauma and also about healing?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 18:19
Yeah, yeah, I love you reflecting that back, the School of the Wolves. I often also call it the Way of the Wolf. Like that they teach us the way of the wolf and that that's what humanity is really seeking in our evolution. Mm-hmm. Um, and I'll probably repeat some of the things I've already said, but in a world where so many humans are struggling—
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 18:47
yeah.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 18:48
Um, and maybe that we don't believe that we already have everything we need for— and I guess I say that with emotional health, or, you know, the capacity to be with what life brings us. Um, we've domesticated in a way that we're maybe always looking for the next thing, or like, when I get this amount of money, or when I don't worry anymore, I'll be okay. And, you know, the way the wolf is, like, maybe there's a threat in the environment And I'm still okay. I'm still in this moment. The environment doesn't dictate who we are. Mm-hmm. We, you know, the wolves teach us to know who we are, trust who we are, and move through the world with a kind of grace and power that makes space for ourselves and others.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 19:49
Grace and power, a sense of self-power.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 19:53
Yeah, that isn't the kind of power that dominates over others. Yeah, it's just kind of a power of coexistence. Yeah, we all matter, we all coexist, and we're all connected in some way.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 20:06
Amanda, can you describe wolf therapy in practice? What does it look like? Could you give us some examples?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 20:15
Yeah, um, what I'll say about wolf therapy is it's really that everything we do is guided by the way of the wolf. So not every interaction involves a wolf, meaning we want the wolves to have sovereignty. We're not constantly bombarding them with people. They get to be who they are. But once people— even the drive to our sanctuary is almost a meditative experience, coming up to the mountains. And then Once people are here, we really want them to drop into an experience of being like a wolf pack. So everything we do with a therapeutic experience, even our events for the public, start and end with a circle. Meaning we sit in a circle, everyone says their name or an intention, and we exit the same way, which mirrors, you know, what you see as a wolf pack is, you know, when one member of the pack howls, they all howl. Every voice is important. Every wolf plays a role, and it doesn't matter if you're the alpha or the omega. It doesn't matter for wolves, contrary to popular belief. It's, it's a family. It's a system. They, they honor every individual. So that's one of the biggest characteristics of our work. Even if we're not with the wolves, everything happens in a pack or group experience and really values every member of the pack. And then our immersive programs, like with teenagers, will do like 8 sessions, one, one a week. And so they, they get to hear the wolf stories. They have the kind of connection I mentioned earlier where they're just in the presence of the wolves and connect with their own, you know, authentic selves and power. And we We hike with wolves, we do things to challenge our stamina, our emotions, a lot of work with the land as well, you know, just kind of relating with the land itself and the trees around us and really just this immersion in nature and kind of trying to see the world like a wolf would. And as— oh, sorry, I was going to ask about the participants, what types of participants.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 22:30
You mentioned young people, youth and youth at risk. What other types of people come come to your program?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 22:37
Yeah, yeah, our signature programs are a lot of youth, you know, have been involved in the probation system, maybe have been incarcerated, foster care youth, and, you know, most youth are struggling. So, so folks who feel called to the program, um, but we also have, you know, it's interesting, we have like event, single day events with the public where people can purchase a ticket to come, and we see the same, the same kind kind of healing happen, right? Maybe they didn't even know they were signing up for healing, but there's, uh, from the beginning to the end, there's always this powerful transformation that, that takes place.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 23:19
Um, I imagine it'll be really popular with the city people from LA looking for some connection with nature.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 23:27
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting how hungry people are for this because you hear a lot about people being terrified of wolves in the wild, and there's a lot of stigma about wolves. But we find humans really interested and really hungry for, you know, this connection experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 23:49
Can you, um, share an example of a major transformation that you've witnessed from one of the participants in your program?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 23:57
Yeah. Um, I thought about this before we spoke, and a young woman came to mind. I won't give her name out of confidentiality.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 24:05
Yeah.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 24:06
But she, a classic, we still see this with a lot of youth where they're trying to hide themselves. You know, she came in a huge sweatshirt, always kind of covering her face and body and not speaking, not saying a word. And if you'd make eye contact with her, she'd kind of have a side eye that she would give. And she actually had some beef with another young woman in the program. So they both came, but they were like a little bit of enemies at school. They were part of an expulsion school. So this is where young people have been kicked out of their primary high school. And she also, you know, one of my favorite things about her, she was like, I am not an animal person. I'm just here to get out of school. And then what back then, um, often what we would do on the first, the first 2 days as part of the program was do kind of a tour of the different wolves and share their stories. And so we were doing that, and we got to a wolf named Mikey. And I don't know if it was me or one of, one of the other facilitators, one of the other pack members was sharing about Mikey. And Mikey was a wolf who, when he got to us, he had been kind of He had been with a lot of other wolves and wolfdogs, and he was kind of the, the runt. He sometimes wouldn't get to eat because the other animals would eat, and he came to us very malnourished. And he's going to defy what I just told you about wolves, because he was a wolfdog. He probably had some husky in him that if you would go to touch him or like give him attention, he would kind of crouch or look away, almost like he was trying to disappear. Or like, I'm sure for him it wasn't a deserving thing, but a lot of the humans would connect to this almost hiding, like not feeling worthy of human touch or presence.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 26:06
Yeah.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 26:07
And so we used to do a thing called Mikey medicine where we would sit with him and not touch him and just be present. And just, he would kind of, in that presence, start to come out of his shell and open up. Um, but as this young woman heard about his, like, hiding, not wanting to be noticed, not, um, feeling worthy of attention, just like her whole fate, like, she kind of looks out of her hood And just something shifted inside of her. I imagine it was Mikey doing the work, but the human, you know, was the translator. And I remember her, it might have been as we were walking away, being like, that's my, that's my story. I'm Mikey.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 26:55
Right.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 26:56
Mikey. And we don't always see like a human just bond to one of the wolves, but this was a particular case where she just became infatuated. With Mikey. This young woman who's like not into animals and shows, she would always like want to, you know, kind of be by Mikey. We do work at a medicine wheel, so it's like a sacred circle. It's traditionally, it's a Native American formation that primarily, primarily the one we use has a Lakota lineage and has has been, you know, blessed on our site. So at this space is where we do work. We call it time travel, but we'll, you know, the young people will like go back and talk to their young child self and we visit the different directions and different aspects of life. And so, you know, by the next week we invite the young people, we model some vulnerability and then invite them to share. And lo and behold, this young woman who like had not said a peep in the program volunteers to go back and talk to her child self and start sharing her story about, like, I won't reveal all of it, but what happened in her family and how she felt invisible and not worth anything. Yeah. And we've seen this before. The beauty of this particular story to me is also the ripple effect. So in doing that, this young woman— I'm like getting teary thinking about it— is across the wheel from her. And after she shares, and we kind of like, the whole group is sitting with it, she says, you know, I know we don't get along and we're not, we're maybe not going to ever be friends, but I had no idea that we had so much. In common, right? And so there are moments like this that happen where almost it can feel like time stops, where there's this thread between these two young women who have decided that they have nothing in common, and a thread to this wolf, you know, a different species, and this interconnection, this like interconnection of of threads that, that move out. If we see in our world, when we, you know, know and appreciate another story, that we, we feel the connection. Yes. Um, that we have. And it's almost like all of those parallel processing processes happening in the same moment, and it will forever live with me. Yeah.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 29:42
And how wonderful that she felt safe to share, right? It'll be the first time in her life that she felt safe to share, right?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 29:50
Yeah.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 29:51
How wonderful.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 29:51
And it's like mirroring because Mikey had been coming out of his shell. Yeah. And so she starts to do that. And then we ended up bringing— you know, he was one shy around groups, but he came out to meet them at the end of the program and connected with her. Yeah.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 30:06
This is why I love Wolf Connection. I love your program because it does help both the wolves, wolves and, and humans symbiotically. Amanda, can you share some more backstories about the wolves? You've touched on some of the types of participants who come to your program, human participants. Can you tell us a bit more about the, yeah, the journeys or the backstories of your wolves?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 30:31
Yeah, yeah. A lot of, um, I try to never demonize the humans who maybe had these wolves in their possession. Sometimes as humans, we want to touch the wild and we don't— our path to do it can be harmful. So it spans from, you know, wolves who have gone through abuse, abandonment, neglect, all the way from like well-meaning humans who just really had no idea how to speak wolf. And you see this sometimes with parents and kids, you know, that there's like an accidental traumatization because like we just don't understand what the child needs. Ignorance. Right, right. We are— we just like, they're a new generation and we don't— that we don't understand that. So I'll give, you know, see if I can give a couple brief examples. You know, one that came to mind was a wolf called Mia because she changed so many lives. Um, she came with two other wolves. They had been in a situation with an owner who was deep I mean, they had so much love, you know, that in some way they were deeply loved. Um, he was very attached to them and he didn't want to give them up. But, um, as you can imagine, when you have 3 wolves together, they howl, and so they give themselves away very easily. And so the authorities kept getting called. So he had moved, and then, um, he like had them in a barn. He was trying to hide them. And he ended up with two of them, I imagine because of the howling, he ended up having their vocal cords severed so that they couldn't. And when they came to us, you know, that it's, it is one of those, I usually like, I tend to always see the good in things, but that, that one has like a visceral, it brings a visceral response, this story for many of us as humans. But soon after we had them, they actually were able to go out on leash. You know, like we put— some of the wolves have been leashed before, so we take them on hikes. And so we had, I think, was it Theo we had out for a hike? We had one of the other wolves out on a hike. And we hear this sound kind of like a moose. And it's Mia howling.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 32:50
Ah, wow.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 32:52
So we'll often ask people, like, what do you make of the fact that this wolf whose vocal cords were severed— wow— still howls? You know, so we can kind of sit with what that lesson brings to us and the power of a being who, who won't allow their voice to be taken away. By someone else.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 33:17
Amazing.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 33:18
And even when it takes like a pretty deep movement of the, the gut to get that sound to come out, but even without them, her and Theo, both of whom had their vocal cords cut, they, they without fail howled at the pack. That instinct to like raise their head, sing.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 33:37
Wow.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 33:37
Um, was so profound. And there was even a You know, I remember a time when Mia started a howl with the rest of the pack, and I remember looking at her and it dawning on me how strong wolf's sense of hearing is. And I was like, oh my gosh, like, we can't hear her howl that loud because of the vocal cords, but the wolf sure as hell can hear, can hear her whisper of a howl because they have such strong senses. And as you can imagine, the number of people who have been affected by her story, adults, youth, you know, the number of people who come to our program who have felt like they were disempowered, their voice was taken away, they were dismissed, they were told to shut up, you know, whatever it is.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 34:27
Yeah, their opinion doesn't matter. Yeah, they don't matter.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 34:30
Yeah, right. And you could just see the transformation when the when they see this wolf who, you know, kind of as I mentioned earlier, it wouldn't dawn on her to not have a voice. It just wouldn't even register.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 34:45
Yeah.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 34:46
Yeah. So that's one background story. Can I share one quick other?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 34:52
Yeah.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 34:52
Yes. To give— Please. Yep. Kenai, who was our late alpha male, he came to us maybe around 2. And he actually had a different experience. He came from a very loving family. They continued to donate for his care. They had previously had a wolfdog. And so after that wolfdog passed, they went to get another. And they got Kenai, who kind of looks like Daisy when he was young, but just this powerful animal that they weren't prepared for. Their prior wolf dog, had more dog, was probably a dog actually, and like their family pet. And they got Kena, who was a wolf, right? And they simply didn't know how to speak wolf. So in the process of like trying to leash him, trying to socialize him, taking him to the dog park, he became terrified of hands, right? He had, as the story goes, he had eventually kind of kicked the, uh, the, the father of the household out of the bed because he had taken that over as his territory. Oh wow. He's just trying to like make his way as a wolf and they're not speaking the same language. And so they brought him to us to have a better life. And so this is one of those examples of very well-meaning humans, but it was like 9 years of time. For Kenai to comfortably get on a leash. Mm-hmm. Simply because of this miscommunication and his, like, deep sensitivity as a wolf and learning to trust humans again, um, to put a leash around his neck, to have human hands so close to his throat. So we got to witness this profound And then he developed this confidence that was so divine, so mesmerizing. He just needed to be in an environment that was wolf. Yes. Not as a pet, but as a sovereign being.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 37:02
Yeah. So, Amanda, is it legal to own wolves and domesticate wolves in the US?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 37:09
It generally not. It depends on the state, the county, the area. So the laws really vary. And I, I also like to say it's not— even when it's illegal, it's not something that is probably top on any authority's list to be, to be handling. Yeah. So it kind of goes underground even when it is illegal.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 37:36
And Amanda, how have wolves influenced your life personally, aside from professionally? Obviously you, you work with them, you live with them, but how have they shaped shaped you personally?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 37:48
Yeah, yeah. I mean, so many ways. Sometimes I'm like, will this stop? It's like I signed a contract to go through transformation on the regular. Um, you know, I often like to share about Willow, who was one of my first teachers at Wolf Connection. So I actually started as a volunteer before I started leading the programs here. And, you know, she's a wolf that has— she's predominantly wolf, came to us as a young age. Um, very, you know, one of her lessons is demanding the love and respect she deserves. Um, she's, she's like a queen. And when I started feeding her— so you progress, like, you feed animals that are a little more forgiving first, and then as your training progresses, you go on with other wolves to feed them. So I have a bowl of food and she kept nipping at my shins, which as you can imagine is a little uncomfortable as you're also trying to navigate the habitat and there's two wolves to feed. And I remember this day, so I was working on my confidence to go in there to try to avoid the nipping of the shins. And I remember, you know, going in there and she stops and looks at me, that kind of like head tilt. She also has a bent ear, which makes it even like more of a visual. And this— the message, you know, wasn't verbal, but it pierced me. It was like a curiosity, like, why aren't you taking up space? Hmm. Where's your confidence? But not confidence that's trying. To be. It's just a being, like a wolf. I take up space. Yeah, like, where I have something she wants, she want— like, we're just, we're having a conversation, you know. But I'm also a member of, of the interaction, the conversation. Yeah. And there's something that shifted in me. I'm not gonna say I'm always confident, but it hit at like a somatic body level. Of almost like an energetic bubble. Like, wolves understand their energy goes far beyond their physical body. Like, when they move, other beings notice.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 40:14
Yeah.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 40:14
And so I started to feel that presence, not only feel my body connected to the ground and feel my physical presence, but feel how I could— my energy could permeate beyond me. And that's how you have a bubble to not get nipped in the shins. It's not by thinking in my mind that I'm confident. I'm sure thought helps. So that began a process of me taking up more space, feeling my body. I remember like looking at photos from, you know, like a year in at Wolf Connection to a couple years in and feeling like I had grown in those photos. Like I looked bigger. I was probably standing up taller. Um, having a different posture.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 41:01
Interesting. Yeah, but Amanda, when I— sorry, when I swim in the, in the ocean, I, um, I imagine a bubble when I, um, when I jump off the boat to swim in the ocean. I'm often swimming in very deep water, and I, I also imagine a bubble around me, like almost like an energetic shield of safety around me.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 41:25
Yeah.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 41:25
So whenever I jump off the boat, I don't experience fear. I just, yeah, I can relate to your bubble metaphor.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 41:36
Yeah, it's beautiful. Emma, I still don't think I'll jump into deep waters of the ocean, but you might have tempted, enticed me. Like much more terrifying than working with wolves, being in the unknown of the deep waters. It's beautiful. Thank you.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 41:53
And Amanda, you don't just work at the Wolf Connection, you, you live at the Wolf Connection, you live in the sanctuary, so you live among the wolves. Can you tell us what that is like living among the wolves?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 42:04
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's nothing, one of the things I say, even after 10 years here, and I was always just like looking for the next thing before I came here. And then something about Wolf Connection felt like home, and I'm still growing, but I'm not looking to go anywhere else. And one of the things that just never gets old here is hearing the wolves howl. It's almost like hearing it for the first time every time, and it's always a little bit different. But there's something, just this vibration in their howl. So like, I hear it. You know, at the auditory level, but it permeates my body. So that's, you know, one of the deepest beauties of being here. And then also, you know, we're nestled into this space, grandfathered into the Angeles National Forest. So just getting to live, you know, in, in nature and be half distance from just some of the noise and chaos of the modern world is this divine. And, um, yeah, it has not been without— it has not been without challenges. They're also— I kind of wish I would have documented it because I live in a trailer and everything that could have gone wrong has gone wrong. But, you know, I suppose that's been part of the— that's been part of the growth as well.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 43:30
What sort of calamities would, would happen or might happen?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 43:39
Um, you know, issue— any kind of elemental issues. So issues with the water, the power. Oh yeah, we're also frequently— because of the fires in this, I mean, you know, wildfires are becoming more and more common, and we live in a forested area, so when there's any risk of fire, the electric company cuts our power. So over the winter, which isn't even fire season, but you may have heard there were pretty devastating fires in LA. We were without power for 3 weeks.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 44:14
Wow. Yeah, that would be challenging. Yeah.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 44:17
So even before that, I had problems with my power here, and there was like a spark and some smoke that happened inside of the trailer. I mean, It's, it's a kind of thing like a lot of people do today, live in tiny homes or off-grid, and it sounds really exciting. I didn't do my research, and it is really exciting, but there are a number of things just to troubleshoot that if you live in an apartment or a home that already has plumbing. Yes, yes. Um, you know, connected to the grid, that just things you don't experience. But there was a storm when I had my roof off and covered with a tarp. But it's just the event, you know, the adventure, the adventure of it. It also— not that I would always prefer it, you know, over time there were just things I thought I needed that I didn't need. Like, I could figure out a day without a toilet or water or even a roof. Yeah, it's just, you know, we get used to having these amenities. Yes, it did build some resilience and strength of it. I don't really need any of these things. It makes a workday easier, but it's not imperative to life.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 45:40
Yeah, you've adapted to the way of the wolf.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 45:43
Yeah, yeah, in some ways. I mean, I still have a— I still have a ways to go. But, and we still, you know, we find a way to make the internet work so I can speak with you today. But we just kind of balance both, you know, balance the primal and balance the modern world at the same time. Yes.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 45:59
Amanda, you mentioned the howling of the wolves and how you wake up to the sound of the howling of the wolves, which I think would be absolutely wonderful. So it's such a magical sound to experience, especially every morning. We might just take a moment to listen to the howling now. That is an amazing, haunting, and beautiful sound, Amanda. What does it mean?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 47:04
Well, my answer to that is always that you'd have to ask the wolves.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 47:08
Yeah.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 47:10
And I often like to ask humans, and you, you had mentioned in your preface, like, a haunting that you felt, just what each of us feels, because I think it stirs something in us. Um, and for them, as humans, we know it's a communication. It can be a rally, a celebration. Sometimes the howl can sound like mourning, like a sadness, a mourning. And it really can be hard to tell what is it that the wolves are communicating versus what is our human interpretation or what does it hit us on in us? Kind of like our own conversations.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 47:53
So do the sounds vary, vary across the days and across time?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 47:58
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Right. Hmm. Amazing.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 48:05
So in understanding the, the current situation of wolves in the US, we need to talk about the, the dark side and some of the unfortunate reality. Can you give us a helicopter view of the situation of wolves across your nation?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 48:22
Yeah. Um, part of the reason I talk about the way of the wolf and human evolution is, you know, we are often— humans who now care about the earth and care about other species are basically trying to repair what other humans have done or continue to do. So all the problems that we face, you know, in this global climate, if we think about damage to Mother Earth or other species, they were instigated by humans thinking we were the dominant species. So we're often trying to repair that, and I always say, well, we should listen to the wolves because they already know how to live symbiotically in coexistence. But I name that because, um, that's kind of— well, a couple things I'll name about the wolves. One is that, you know, many people have heard of the successful reintroduction in Yellowstone. Where, you know, there's like— you can look up on YouTube or social media how wolves change rivers and how, as a keystone species, when wolves hunt prey and then prey animals don't do as much, it changes the way they eat, you know, from the earth, and it goes all the way to changing the rivers. So they're meant to be part of our ecosystem. So reintroducing them shifts the ecosystem in positive ways. And there are, you know, once those wolves leave the protected area of the park, I think in our history as humans, things that we fear, we have hated.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 50:06
Yeah.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 50:06
And so there is still hatred for wolves. We destroyed. Yeah. And we destroyed. So originally, you know, Wolves had been basically extinguished from almost all of the US, and then some of this reintroduction happened, and then wolves, you know, started coming back in, in certain places. And then once the population hits a certain point, they'll pass laws that they can be hunted legally. So I name all this about our evolution and repair is that because we've created this ecosystem without keystone species and without predators we now control them, right? We reintroduce them, and then when the numbers get too high, we pass laws so they can be killed. Versus returning to an ecosystem where things happen naturally, where life and death, you know, Mother Earth calls the shots. So that's, I think, where we're at. Um, and I often say when people are shocked at the cruelty to wolves, or that people would want to kill a wolf, or that they feel the need to kill a wolf that may be because of livestock, you know, they got, they got to livestock. You know, I think about how we treat each other in this world as humans. And if we, we often can't even find the path to be, to respect one another or to care about one another as the same species, how in the world are we caring for other species? And we see, like, many of the youth that come to our programs, they immediately relate to the demonization of wolves, to wolves being labeled, um, stereotyped, deemed bad without even knowing them. And many of the youth that we work with have had those same kind of, like, labels, stereotypes. Can you imagine, like, a child being deemed, like, a criminal? Or a bad kid. I mean, they're, they're a kid, they're learning. Yeah. So I just think there's a lot of parallels to the struggles that we have in, um, wanting to eradicate each other as humans and what we do with, with other species.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 52:26
So wolves are safe in national parks. Is that the only— are they the only places where wolves are safe?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 52:35
That's a good question. I don't have all of the information in front of me. They are sometimes safe when the numbers get low enough, and then they'll, you know, they won't allow hunting. There may also be areas where, you know, areas that are incredibly, you know, that haven't been inhabited, you know, inhabited by humans are relatively safe because, you know, humans aren't going into those back areas to hunt wolves. And some of that we don't know because those wolves aren't being tracked. So there are areas where maybe wolves are living safely and we don't, we don't know because they're such, you know, they're on untamed areas of wilderness. Yes.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 53:26
You did mention briefly some wolves in farms, so they're in— some wolves are farmed for their fur? Is that legal?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 53:37
For their pelts. It's hard to sometimes know the whole story. So we had— we took on 5 wolves, we still have 4 of them who came from an alleged fur farm. Now we don't have all the documentation to know that that's what's happening. We also have 3 wolves who came from what we know to be a fox fur farm. So I imagine they were doing the same thing with wolves, but where they're raised for their, for their pelts. And so it seems just, you know, to be legal in some places, not in others. And again, like I said earlier, some of it's just happening, you know, in the underground, and, and, you know, we may not be aware. How awful.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 54:18
Yeah. Amanda, um, what would you like the audience to, to take away from, uh, from this podcast about wolves? Would you like them to understand?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 54:31
Yeah, well, the thing that, that's coming up in this moment is that I don't know if this translates on a podcast, but I do think that the wolves, um, kind of invite us to connect with a deeper part of ourselves you know, a very like true and pure and primal, maybe untamed, wild part of ourselves. So I hope that listeners maybe connect with some primal and authentic and, you know, deeply pure part of themselves listening to this. Mm-hmm. Um, and then, you know, curiosity comes to mind as we're talking about, sometimes I blame Disney or, or the movies. For painting wolves to be aggressive, or, you know, they're shy, sensitive animals that will do anything they can to stay far away from humans and coexist. So I think that invites all of us to rethink our judgment, and wolves don't have judgment, our judgment, our, the way that fear can be hatred, to maybe be curious about ways that we've learned to navigate the world that are unnecessary, that don't involve violence or hatred or even being scared of a being that exists naturally on this earth. Hmm.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 55:54
Yeah, maybe we need more children's books that show the positive light of wolves, because all the children's books traditionally are about big, bad, scary wolves, aren't they?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 56:07
Right, right. Yeah, it's like an invitation to rewrite the story. Yeah, yeah. We can all do that.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 56:14
Children's authors listening, you might be inspired.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 56:17
Yeah, yeah. And I think there's more, there's some newer stories that don't portray wolves to be bad, but I think as we know, it can take generations and generations to rewrite those stories. Create a different narrative. Yeah. Yes.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 56:36
And Amanda, for those in the audience who might be suffering from trauma or past trauma, can you offer any advice that might help them?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 56:47
Gosh, one of our young facilitators who had gone through the program says to me the other day, Amanda, can you remind the team about how we're not supposed to give advice? So I'll offer some, a little bit of wolf wisdom without calling it advice. And really, it is this inward looking. You know, one of the affirmations of our alpha female wolf is about her inner compass, that Charlie has never looked outside of herself for the answers. And I think that we all hold that. So I, you know, I honor anyone listening who's gone through trauma and the and feeling the hardship of that. And the wolves— the wolves teach us that, um, they're hardwired to heal, to be resilient, and to move toward the light, to move toward recovery. So it can happen slow or fast. We have some wolves who experience rapid healing in a new environment and some that take 10 years. But there's something within them, and I believe that lives within us, that is moving towards healing every day. And sometimes it's really hard to notice that when you're in the pain of it.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 58:04
That's really interesting. We're hardwired to heal. Yeah, thank you. And finally, how can people in the audience support the brilliant work of Wolf Connection?
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 58:16
Yeah, thank you for that question. If you'd like to find out more, you can go to wolfconnection.org or follow us on social. Wolf Connection is the handle. And we're a nonprofit. So as you mentioned, Natalie, we, we're successful in a lot of ways with our programming and we rely on support from the public, from humans that love our work, from donors and foundations. So we're always asking if you feel called to support Sponsor a wolf, join Daisy's fan club. These are ways that you can give monetary support, all of which goes directly, um, primarily to the wolves, and some goes to the human programming that we do. So that's one way to help. And then, you know, to share— if you're inspired by this, to share the mission with others who might be interested. And if you're in California, to come visit us, please.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 59:12
I was about to ask if that's possible for the public.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 59:15
They can— yeah, yeah. So we have events for the public, and you can go on our website to see what those offerings are, right? Yeah.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 59:23
Wonderful. Amanda, it has been such a privilege. And I remember last year when I was planning the Animals and Us podcast, and I was writing a list of, of people that might— my dream list of people, the guests that I would like to have on the program, and you're up there among the top. So I'm really, um, genuinely very grateful for your time and, and sharing your, your wisdom. And congratulations on the wonderful successes you've been having.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 59:52
Thank you, and thank you for the work that you're putting into the world and, and honoring, honoring animals and our fellow, our fellow brothers and sisters.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 1:00:03
My absolute pleasure. Thanks, Amanda.
Dr Amanda Beer (Guest) · 1:00:06
Thank you. Follow Animals and Us is a production of Kintsugi Heroes. Thank you to Xavier Rudd for his permission to use Follow the Sun as our theme music for this series. If you enjoyed this conversation, share the podcast with a friend and let us know by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to support Kintsugi Heroes and the stories we share, head to Kintsugiheroes.com.au and follow the instructions to make a tax-deductible donation. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.
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