David Burns · 43 min
Born to teenage heroin-addicted parents and later devastated by his father's death from liver cancer, David Burns transformed decades of unprocessed trauma into a social enterprise using sport to heal marginalised communities.
Hear this story
David Burns was born into chaos that felt normal to him. His parents were 17 and 18, caught in heroin addiction, and he has early memories of parties, his grandparents stepping in, and the constant weight of something he couldn't name. When he was five, his dad packed a car and drove from Lancashire to Germany alone, then sent for David and his mum. Sport became his anchor there, football with FC Stern giving him solace and connection in a home that was still unpredictable. Back in England by age 11, he threw himself into school and sports, determined to break the pattern. He got to university, stayed on for a master's degree, and built a career working in football development.
Then, at 26, his father was diagnosed with terminal liver cancer, a consequence of hepatitis contracted decades earlier when he shared needles. David became his carer for the last three months of his life, sleeping on the floor beside his bed, managing medications, and making sure nothing was left unsaid. When his father died, grief consumed him. He partied, he destroyed himself, and when his girlfriend, who needed support he couldn't give, left, he felt he had lost both of the most important people in his life. Two years later, he emigrated to Australia, thinking distance would heal him.
It didn't. For thirteen years, David kept moving: working in leisure management, running Ironman races, building a career that looked fine from the outside. It wasn't until his partner Jen suggested therapy that he realised he'd been carrying unprocessed trauma in his chest all that time. When he finally started doing that inner work, he understood something that changed everything: trauma isn't what's wrong with a person; it's what's happened to them. That understanding became the foundation for Collective Leisure, the social enterprise he and Jen founded in 2019 to support marginalised communities through sport. The worst thing that ever happened to him had become the source of his purpose.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses addiction & recovery and grief & loss, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • SMART Recovery Australia (addiction): smartrecoveryaustralia.com.au • ReachOut: au.reachout.com • Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au • GriefLine: 1300 845 745 · griefline.org.au
“sport is from that point is really stayed with me in terms of you know how it can be used for connection and engage with others”
“it's not what's kind of wrong with us it's what's happened to us and yeah there's a lot of trauma in community intergenerational trauma”
“your challenges can be your biggest gifts”
The hero, today
David's father had demons he was dealing with, but he also showed up: he played football with David, took him to games, and told him that if he worked hard he might go to university instead of standing at a welding machine like his dad. Trauma is not what's wrong with a person, it's what's happened to them, and understanding that made it possible for David to start forgiving himself for how he acted in his grief. David didn't seek help for 13 years after his father died because he thought he was fine and his life was working, but speaking to a therapist opened up things he didn't realize were there. For David, challenges have turned into his biggest gifts, the strength he found by rebuilding after loss is now the foundation of the work he does supporting people from low-income areas and marginalized communities. David copes with grief through work and purpose, but he's learning that well-being needs other parts too: meditation, self-care, sitting with himself, not just pushing forward.
Yes. David Burns is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
David's father had demons he was dealing with, but he also showed up: he played football with David, took him to games, and told him that if he worked hard he might go to university instead of standing at a welding machine like his dad.
Trauma is not what's wrong with a person, it's what's happened to them, and understanding that made it possible for David to start forgiving himself for how he acted in his grief.
David didn't seek help for 13 years after his father died because he thought he was fine and his life was working, but speaking to a therapist opened up things he didn't realize were there.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 00:07
Welcome to the Kintsugi Heroes Podcast, where we share inspirational stories of everyday people going through different challenges and how they overcome them. Please be aware that the story you're about to hear may have moments of deeply felt emotions and personal experiences. If anything you hear has a triggering effect, please reach out to someone who can help keep you safe. If you love this conversation, we'd love you to like and share it with your friends so we can continue to share more inspiration and hope to as many people as possible. Now listen up for our next hero story. What a fascinating story this one is with David Burns. He was born to 17-year-old drug-addicted parents. And knowing that his parents were drug addicts. He tells the story of what it's like through the lens of a child and how that's impacted his whole life. He was driven though, and he wanted normal and he wanted to achieve something despite the very challenging, tricky, difficult, abnormal scenario of his upbringing, even though to him it was normal. He achieved a master's in sports science and he even cared for his father until his father's death. Which did devastate him, and he moved to Australia at that point and continued in his career. It's only been recent that he's worked through the trauma and been able to go back and peel back those layers, and it's through that healing that he's been able to share his story, and I was really grateful that he was able to share it with me. Hello, and here we are. It's another episode of Kintsugi Heroes. I'm here with David Burns today. David, how are you going?
David Burns (Guest) · 02:11
Going really well today, Aveline. How are you?
Aveline Clark (Host) · 02:14
I am really well as well, despite the rain outside. It's a great day. Every day is a great day. The gift to be here, right?
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For David, challenges have turned into his biggest gifts, the strength he found by rebuilding after loss is now the foundation of the work he does supporting people from low-income areas and marginalized communities.
This conversation includes born to young parents caught in addiction, his father drives to germany to start over, sport becomes his anchor, his father tells him about heroin, a terminal diagnosis at 26 and three months as his father's carer.
David Burns (Guest) · 02:23
Yeah, absolutely.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 02:24
So let's get started, shall we? I'm going to hand it over to you. Can you take us back to where your story begins?
David Burns (Guest) · 02:33
Yeah, thanks. This is a little bit raw, but happy, happy to share. And, uh, I suppose it's part of my healing process as well. But for me, my story starts in my childhood. Um, you know, I, I've got early memories of, um, of my parents, and, uh, they were very young when they had me actually. They were 17 and 18. Um, and actually had challenges themselves with, um, you know, drug addictions and, uh, yeah, stuff that they were kind of dealing with and trying to bring up a young, a young child in, in the '80s. Um, so I've got early memories of, uh, you know, a lot of parties with, you know, being that little boy around, around a lot of people and, uh, And actually being taken off my parents a few times in them early years, went to live with my grandparents while my mum and dad tried to, you know, work through some of these addictions that they had. And so it was looking back, you know, quite chaotic and a bit of neglect there really, even though there was love. And yeah. We, uh, my dad was, uh, he, he, he really kind of tried to, to, to get out of the, the area that we were living in, um, in, in Lancashire, in, in the northeast of England. And, and when I was 5, he, he drove to Germany, um, um, from England, um, in a car with his friend to try and, um, yeah, start a new life for us. And a couple of months later, he sent some money over for me and my mum, and we moved over to Germany. So Yeah, from 5 years old was in it, was in a different country, um, which was, which was all very, you know, kind of new and, um, quite, quite, quite a lot for a young, a young child. Um, and yeah, my dad was a welder, my mum was a, was a chambermaid, and but they still, the, the drug addictions kind of still stayed with them even though they tried to, tried their best and So it was again still a little bit chaotic at home and stuff. So the one thing that really kind of gave me a lot of solace in them early years, as I can remember, Aveline, was sport and being able to connect with children from, you know, in a different language. And so I played a lot of football and that really helped me. And sport is, from that point, is really stayed with me in terms of, you know, how, um, it can be used for connection and engage with others, um, which is, which is something that I'm really kind of passionate about now. Yeah. And, uh, when I got to about, um, 11, um, my parents decided to— and I think mostly because of me, because I wanted to kind of move back to England— we, we moved, moved back to England and lived in the northeast of England, um, there, and still quite, you know, quite a lot going on at home, um, alcohol and drugs, etc., um, which kind of became— was normalized for me. I would never talk about it really with anybody, but, uh, maybe some of my close friends would know, but it was always kind of, you know, never really spoke about. It's not the thing you really share at school when there's a lot of stuff like that going on, and— but still really, you know, interested in sport and playing football. It was kind of my life. And because I loved it so much, I decided to go to college and did a sports studies degree. And came out with the grades that I thought would get myself to university. But I used to be in the library a lot on a Monday, still doing my homework, which I should have been doing at the weekend, but I was going clubbing and going out partying quite a bit. So when I probably because a lot of that, my upbringing was kind of normalized for me even, um, in my, in, you know, my kind of activities that I would do. And, and, uh, when it came to getting my, um, my marks, thought I got a distinction to get to university, they actually knocked me down to merit. And I, I, I missed out on the university that I wanted to go to, which was devastating at the time. So they knocked me down because of my attendance even though I got my grades, which was really, yeah, challenging. And because I'd scraped through all the way, I got— I needed to get 4 GCSEs at school and I got 4 just. And then I got to college and I thought I'd got the, um, you know, the, the grades and I didn't. So I went through Clearing, um, and then managed to get to university over in Middlesbrough in Teesside. Um, yeah, the sports studies degree, um, loved it that much that I stayed on to do a master's in sports science. And then met, met somebody, and, um, we, we, uh, moved in together after university and, uh, and lived together. And then when I got to 26, um, I kept going around to see my dad, and, uh, he was very, very close, close with, um, and he was just complaining of these stomach pains. And, you know, he'd go to the doctors and they'd say, oh, you've got stomach ulcers, or you've got You ripped your stomach lining. And I went around one day and he was just sat on the floor with his back against the radiator, would comfort himself. And I said, come on, we'll go to hospital. We took him to hospital and they worked out in, you know, in 24 hours that he had liver cancer. And, you know, from the drug abuse. And he was 46. And yeah, a few appointments later, we worked out that it was terminal liver cancer. Um, yeah, quite devastating. So I moved in to— moved out of the house that I was living in, moved in and became a carer for him for 3 months.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 08:34
Was your mum around? Sorry, I just need to ask, would you—
David Burns (Guest) · 08:37
yeah, my mum and dad divorced when I was 18, and because I was an only child, I think you caught— they call it like empty nest syndrome. So when that, when that kind of the purpose kind of falls away, maybe there's other stuff going around, going on, um, kind of fell apart. So, um, yeah, there was just my dad. And, uh, so yeah, moved in and we had 3, you know, wonderful months even though they were difficult. You know, there was no word left unsaid. Um, and, you know, I, I slept next to his bed on the floor, you know, every night. Um, you know, made sure he had all the tablets, appointments and stuff to the, to the one, to the night when I knew kind of it was going to happen. Um, you know, I had the candles all around and and the nurse came in and didn't even say anything that day. She just walked straight out. And then I can remember, yeah, I woke up in the morning about 5 o'clock, and, uh, yeah, he'd passed away. Um, and the, you know, the, the great thing about it is he was at home and I was with him. And I'm really proud of, you know, kind of how I dealt with all that. Um, you know, and organizing the funeral and everything. But after he passed away That's kind of when my life imploded a little bit. My girlfriend had just got in the police and she needed a lot of support and all I wanted to do was go out and really, you know, party and destroy myself really. Just as that escapism and grieving process. And then, yeah, I realized after about 8 or 10 months of that, split up with my girlfriend at the time. Because my grief was just all-consuming. I was 26, didn't really have a lot of mentorship or support around that. I thought I need a change, so I decided to, you know, pack my bags, say goodbye to all my friends, um, and my mum who lived in the south of England, and, uh, yeah, start a new life and emigrated to Australia.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 10:40
What, um, what made you decide on Australia?
David Burns (Guest) · 10:44
Yeah, I had my— got a few relatives over here and, uh, uh, I'd been here before when I was 14. It was far enough to kind of start again, really. Um, but I was really specific around it. Wasn't just, wasn't just going, um, you know, for a working holiday visa. I wanted to kind of start again. I was in a lot of, a lot of pain, a lot of grief. And, uh, yeah, I remember getting off the plane and, uh, you know, I was smoking at the time and, um, smoked for 10 years. Uh, a lot of people kind of don't know that, but because I'm all about health and well-being and fitness, but yeah, and that's my backstory. And, uh, yeah, I had my last cigarette in a smoking room kind of in Thailand or something, and that was it. I never, I never smoked again.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 11:30
Was that on the way to Australia, the smoking room?
David Burns (Guest) · 11:33
Yes, yes, it was in the airport. You know, you don't know if you've ever seen these, these smoking rooms in the airport, and, um Yeah, arrived and because of my career in the UK was all focused on football. You know, I worked for the Football Association, you know, developing grassroots football. And I was a football development officer for a council as a social inclusion football development officer, the first in the UK actually to use football to tackle health, crime, unemployment, and education. So that was very much aligned with, you know, my experiences. I thought I'd get to Australia, Adelaide, and just fall into a job within football. And, you know, I went to the FFA and said, this is my portfolio. And unfortunately, the infrastructure was a lot different. So because I was on a visa and I wanted to stay, I had to just kind of take whatever job would come. So living in the city, ended up working at Penrith City Council for 3 years. So I was traveling out there for 3 years. And to be honest, looking back, I think it was— I was kind of punishing myself a little bit, you know, all that travel and, you know, the grief. It was just a process I kind of had to go through for my healing. Um, but yeah, worked there for 3 years, sports programs, managed. And then my manager said, would you— we want you to manage an aquatic center. And I was like, well, I've never, never got any of that experience, but I would like to do it. So that's how I kind of fell in the aquatics and leisure industry, and I've been in that for about 14 years, um, worked at the City of Sydney, uh, as a contract manager for 6 years, then in the private sector for 3 years. And then around that time, I thought I wanted to do something a little bit bigger and bring all my experiences of childhood and, um, you know, the adversity that I kind of, um, gone through to, to create a social enterprise kind of to, to support people from marginalized communities. So we founded Collective Leisure in 2019 with my, um, now fiancé.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 13:37
Wow, what a journey. Can I— I'd love to go back to your childhood, um, these memories you have of your parents as a young child. And you've spoken about them, there's a lot of alcohol and, and drug use. Were you around? Were you there to witness that? As a young child? So they openly took drugs in front of you?
David Burns (Guest) · 14:01
I can always remember in Germany that there was something not quite right. And, um, you know, used to kind of be locked out of the bathroom. You know, I'm wondering what's going on in there and, uh, never really understanding what that was. Or, you know, that, like I said, that I was around a lot of people a lot of the time, and you you know, and they were just young, you know. You can imagine having a child at that age. I'm 43, and, uh, you know, hopefully one day I'll have a child. And, um, it's, it's hard for me to comprehend sometimes. So, um, you know, there was still a lot, a lot of love and things, but it— yeah, so that— then were my early experiences. And then, um, as I got a little bit older my dad had a conversation with me when I was in, when I was in, in back in England, or actually, um, at his factory, uh, and, um, we had a wood, a wood fire, wood burner, and we used to get the pallets from his, from his factory on a Saturday. So we had some wood, and, uh, I can remember him telling me one day that, you know, yeah, the addictions that he had with heroin and, you know, uh, Yeah, some of the reasons why and things. And there's always a backstory, you know, with the kind of childhood that my father had. And yeah, it's that was kind of the way I was kind of, I realized what was going on.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 15:33
How old were you when you had that conversation with him?
David Burns (Guest) · 15:37
I think I was around 12 or 13.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 15:41
Right.
David Burns (Guest) · 15:41
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 15:43
And you were close to him, is that right?
David Burns (Guest) · 15:46
Very, very— he was my best friend.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 15:49
That's beautiful. That's really lovely. So his addiction didn't get in the way of being a good parent?
David Burns (Guest) · 15:58
Yeah, it's in— it's an interesting question, um, because the, the more I've done around, you know, therapy and, uh, and my own healing And, you know, I've always thought there was always love there, always. You know, we didn't have a lot, but my memories are, you know, playing football on the field and, you know, with my dad. And, you know, you don't have to have a lot of money to have fun, you know. But my dad, unfortunately, he had, you know, demons that he was kind of dealing with, and addiction's hard. So he would come in and out of it, you know, and still hold down a job and Um, you know, he smoked cannabis and things like that, that, you know, that was just the daily. But the, um, the other addictions were, yeah, up, up and down. So he was kind of dealing with that the whole time.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 16:47
Yeah.
David Burns (Guest) · 16:47
And one of the, one of the best things he ever did, you know, he took me into his factory once and he put me on his machine. He was always on the one machine. He was a welder by trade, but, uh, he worked in a factory in Northeast. He said, Dave, you know, you want to fool around at school or whatever, you can, but you'll be in here with me on this machine. Or, you know, if you get your head down and, yeah, you work hard, you might be able to go to university and stuff. And, you know, it was just things like that that were like, you know, so I look back now and, and yeah, huge for me. And, you know, really smart from my dad as well.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 17:20
Yeah, because so he had that clean perspective of his life and the choices that he'd made, where he was at, and saying to you, and if you were what, I'm going to guess, 7, 8 years old. He was what, in his mid-20s, late 20s, right? Um, which is still so young, and, and yet he had that, that perspective, that, that love for you to be able to say, hey, you know, you want to come and work with Dad? Well, yeah, it's, it's an option.
David Burns (Guest) · 17:55
And then, you know, when I, when I got the job at the Football Association. And, you know, like, it was just, you know, I just wanted to make my dad so proud and, and my mum as well. Um, you know, but because I was going, you know, gone to university and stuff, it was like, it was brilliant. That's, you know, really the drive to, you know, you say, where'd you get your drive from, Dave? Like, you know, and, uh, you know, I just, just wanted to do well and make them proud, you know.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 18:21
Um, So, were they unhappy when you were a child? Did you get a sense that they were not happy with their lives or with themselves?
David Burns (Guest) · 18:33
Um, I think there was, there was again parts when things would have been going well and, and maybe times when not, you know. And when you throw in addictions as well, it's— and you know, when you have money issues, you know, it's, uh, it all that kind of is in the mix, it can be quite challenging. You know, you look at the UK now and, um, and Australia, but, you know, 30% of children are living in poverty. You know, uh, it's, it's, you know, there's a lot of people who are from low socioeconomic areas and these added stresses that are, that are on. Um, yeah, so, so I always had a— I always knew that they would get divorced. Yeah, right. Once I'd left, I always had that feeling.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 19:18
Yeah, yeah, okay. So they didn't— you didn't get a sense that they were really happy together as a couple, I guess?
David Burns (Guest) · 19:29
I think, I think there were times, definitely. You know, I've got some really fond memories. Yeah, really fun memories. I mean, one of the, the story goes that, um, you know, they weren't, they weren't even together really when, when I— yeah, when I was kind of conceived, or when I was born— well, when I was conceived, they weren't together. And, um, you know, my dad one day just turned up on my mum's doorstep with these Dave Bowie records— you can imagine this in like the late '70s, can't you— and just said, you know, let's, let's make a go of it.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 20:02
And it sounds like your dad also does have a bit of drive because he was the one that got up and went over to Germany, right? Yeah, takes a bit of guts to do that.
David Burns (Guest) · 20:11
Well, you know, for me, and so I always just say to him, you know, that, that how amazing was that, you know, that courage as somebody in your early 20s having these addictions to jump in a car and try to, you know, to make a better life for your family, um, was, was something, yeah, really quite special. Yeah.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 20:34
And how did you go with the language? Did you learn German?
David Burns (Guest) · 20:37
Yes, it's an interesting one because when you learn a new language when you're young, you're like a sponge. So I think within 4 or 5 months, I was pretty much speaking quite a bit of German. I can always remember my mom and dad taking me to the supermarket or to the shop, and I'd be the one ordering kind of the food. And I used to dream in German. So, you know, I went to a German school, you know, there was no was straight in the deep end. So we'd only speak English at home. Um, yeah, you start school at 7 in Germany and finish at 1 early. And then I used to go and stay with some German friends, like friends' parents. Um, so yeah, it was— there was some good memories there as well. Um, but it was, was, was a bit challenging. Yeah. Sorry for the interruption. This is Ian Westmoreland, the founder of Katsuki Heroes, and thank you for listening to this story from one of our amazing heroes. Our mission is for these stories to provide hope and inspiration to people experiencing life challenges and to also educate the broader community on how best to provide support. If you would like to help us to continue to produce more hero stories and cover more adversity themes, we would welcome all donations. These can be made via our website, kintsugiheroes.com.au. The donate function is at the bottom of the home page. We'd also welcome any feedback. You can email me direct using ian@kintsugiheroes.com.au. Now let's get back to the story.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 22:20
Let's talk about sport. So you started playing football, and what was it like playing with the other German kids?
David Burns (Guest) · 22:29
Ah, it was— I used to love it. Um, I used to play for a football club called FC Stern, and yeah, just amazing. Um, I, I used to love it that much that they used to play me, and then I used to play another game for either the team above or the team below on a Saturday, and Yeah, my, you know, my dad would take me and, uh, yeah, it was, it's just some really fun, fond memories. Again, it was, it was my life really. It's what I looked forward to. Yeah.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 23:02
And your dad loved football too, did he?
David Burns (Guest) · 23:04
Um, he wasn't a massive fan in the beginning, um, but I think he came, came round to it. But he did support Everton and, uh, that's what, yeah, I support now. And, you know, there's some, got some really good memories of me and my dad going to the football in the UK. To watch Everton. And when I was working for the FA, and one of the benefits was used to get some tickets to some of the big games. And yeah, used to, uh, used to take him, which was absolutely brilliant.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 23:33
Sounds like you've got so many good memories of your dad.
David Burns (Guest) · 23:37
Yeah, and, and, and my mum. My mum's, you know, still, still here, um, fighting COPD, which is a a chronic obstructive pulmonary lung disease. I think I've got— well, might have said that a little bit wrong, but COPD. And, um, yeah, so it's a horrible disease but from smoking. So yeah, yeah, we saw her recently when I was back in the UK.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 24:01
Right. When you, uh, were a teenager and you had that experience of being at school with other teenagers and kids who are getting into alcohol and drugs. Like, for you, it was normalized at home. How did you— I guess, did you share with your friends up front? Did you sort of sit back and observe others and kind of like— was it surprising? You know, share with me what that was like going through those, those years.
David Burns (Guest) · 24:35
Well, I had a really close circle of 4 friends, um, who are still, still, yeah, um, close with today, even though they live so far away, you know, then they knew a bit what was going on. Um, I'll get the one example I'll give you is that, uh, I remember going, um, down to Cornwall when we were like 16, and, um, you know, somebody was taking something, and, uh, you know, I was a bit like freaked out, so I phoned my dad, you know, and I was like, Dad, this is what's happening. And, you know, he kind of talked me through it. They'll be fine, you know, don't worry, just do this. And, you know, give me that advice on, you know, what was happening. So, uh, yeah, um, so there was a positive to it as well. Yeah, and that I kind of had that support. And yeah, you know, because let's face it, you know, drugs are, um, you know, kind of— they're in society, aren't they? You know. Um, and, uh, yeah, I don't— some people, if they're not you, some people maybe don't know how far they go, but it's, it's a big part of, yeah, kind of society.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 25:44
Yeah. And, and it sounds like your parents basically were able to live with their, their drug addiction and live a fairly normal kind of life, you know, working with, with the the grief that you had around your father. So you only had a few months to prepare for his passing when you found out about his diagnosis. What did you— how did you prepare yourself? Did you get help from others to go through this?
David Burns (Guest) · 26:18
I got help from my work, like, that they, you know, supported me. I still worked quite a bit of that as well. Um, just to keep a bit of normality. But, you know, the local Macmillan Hospital was fantastic. You know, they used to take my dad out once a week and, you know, he'd go to the Macmillan Centre and they'd give him scones and a cup of tea and some guy would pick him up. And my dad just couldn't believe, like, the generosity and the warmth of these people. Like, it just blew him away. I'll always remember that. And yeah, I had some friends around, you know, who helped a bit. And my girlfriend at the time was really, really supportive. Really supportive. And I'll always be grateful for that. To the point where I never really realized the grief that she was under because she loved my dad as well. And because it was just all-consuming. So in terms of preparing, yeah, it's an interesting one. I think because you're so focused on these are the tablets that you've got for this morning. These are the creams that we need to put on you. You know, liver cancer is such a kind of horrible disease because you basically lose all your weight, you know. Um, and my dad was very thin anyway. Um, you know, so it's, it's, it's not very nice to, to watch. Um, but again, you know, because of the relationship we had, there's— we talked a lot. And, uh, you know, um, we did— we knew where we were going to put my dad in terms of his, uh, his ashes, and we'd gone to the, gone to the spot and stuff. So, uh, I think it was just actually once it happened, uh, then it was, yeah, a bit of a reality check.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 28:06
At what point did your dad stop taking drugs, do you know?
David Burns (Guest) · 28:11
3 years, for 3 years before he passed away.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 28:14
Okay.
David Burns (Guest) · 28:15
And what they say is, well, this is the, the classic, is he still smoked, um, cannabis. Um, but, uh, yeah, that was classic. And it usually takes 3 years before you can get away from it. But because of the, you know, the— when he was in his early 20s, and at that time people were using needles and sharing, and you didn't really think about anything. So, you know, he got hepatitis and stuff. And what happened— what, what can happen, um, that hepatitis later in life can, can become liver cancer, right? So it is a real shame because he, he was, you know, getting himself sorted. Um, but it kind of got him in the end, um, at 46, which, you know, I'm 43 now and I think, Jesus, it's— yeah, you know, nearly coming up to his age. So, uh, it's, uh, it's an interesting one kind of looking back. And he was, you know, he'd be starting to cycle and that's where we, we took his ashes, where he used to go for this bike ride and look over, look over the you know, part of the northeast of England, you've got these rolling hills and stuff. And, uh, yeah, I thought, you know, this will do for me.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 29:26
That's really sweet. It's lovely. Um, the grief— can I ask about the grief after he passed? Um, did you seek external help apart from your girlfriend or close mates? To talk about it and process it?
David Burns (Guest) · 29:48
No, I didn't. I didn't at the time. And, you know, I moved over to Australia 2 years later after trying, you know, I just, I knew in the environment that I was, it wasn't going well. And that's why I kind of needed the, the change. Um, and in the last And, you know, I met somebody the 2 days before I was emigrating to Australia, and now Jen, we live together and we've been together a long time. Over the last few years, I have started to have some therapy, and that has really, really helped looking at not just the loss of my dad, but also, you know, how it ended with my girlfriend at the time. And, you know, because it was like I lost the 2 most important people in my life. My, my choice with my, with my ex-girlfriend. But, but still, that was— it's— it was a great— it was kind of you grieving for somebody as well. So, and then that's really helped Evelyn to, to talk to somebody and, and, and work through. Because I think it, it all, you know, the more work I do, the inner work that I've been doing, um, which I think is the big, the big journey, is, is my therapist tells me, you know, because I've done a lot of Ironman over the years and, and That's an interesting one to get into in terms of why the reasons I've been— I'm doing Ironman. And, um, but as he tells me, the real journey, uh, is, is inside.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 31:16
It is. So it took you a long time. How many years did it take you to start doing the inner work?
David Burns (Guest) · 31:23
Um, I've been— I was doing the inner work, personal development before that, probably over the last, like, I don't know, 8 or 9 years. But actually seeing somebody regarding, you know, my upbringing and, uh, uh, you know, the, the grieving. Um, it was probably 3 years ago. Yeah.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 31:40
Okay, so you held it in for a long time, a good like 12, 13 years?
David Burns (Guest) · 31:45
Yeah. And it's funny, it, it, it's, it's here for me in my chest. Yeah. So that's where I hold a lot of my, my stuff. And, um, you know, they say the body keeps the score, uh, and, you know, the body's got a lot of intelligence And, uh, it's been a really interesting process to kind of go through that. There's certain things that I'm a little bit quirky about, like, you know, I can't feel my pulse. That, that freaks me out. Um, probably because of my, you know, my stuff in my upbringing. And, um, yeah, uh, so I've been doing kind of a lot of work on my, on my chest really, which has been helping.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 32:23
Good. So for those 13 years that you hadn't really sought the help, you know, to go deep inside. Would you say you were avoiding it? Was it a protection? Were you protecting yourself, avoiding the feelings? What was it?
David Burns (Guest) · 32:41
I think it's an awareness piece that, you know, we think we're all right. I'm just doing fine, you know. I've had all this stuff, you know, and I'm my life's, my life's fine. And, um, it was my partner Jen who was like, I think you, you know, you should see somebody. And I remember the first couple of sessions, I was like, just having a chat, you know. And, uh, it, it, yeah, it kind of evolved. And it's, yeah, still a, still an ongoing process. And, uh, yeah, I think trauma is a really interesting one too. I think we're all, you know, a lot of people are dealing with trauma. And, uh, you know, it's not what's kind of wrong with us, it's what's happened to us. And, and yeah, there's a lot of trauma in community, intergenerational trauma. And, uh, yeah, and understanding that a little bit more and who you are really. And, and, and that work is, you know, it's like, it's helped me in, in the business that I've, that we've founded in Collective Leisure. So it starts with self and then the social enterprise and you know, and then the system that I'm trying to work within as well. So, but I think a lot of it does start with self, you know, how, what are our behaviors, you know, how do we interact with others and, you know, what triggers us. And a lot of that comes from kind of trauma for me.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 34:05
How do you feel today versus, I guess, at the start, or when I say the start, the start of dealing with the pain of loss? Of your father and that, and your relationship to your girlfriend? How does it compare, you know, since going through the healing and the work that you've done with this, uh, therapist?
David Burns (Guest) · 34:30
I think it's still something I'm working through. Yeah, yeah. Uh, I think there's a, there's a lot more acceptance now though with myself, you know, like, because I'm embarrassed you know, the way I acted. And, and, you know, after my dad passed away and, and, um, but again, having that awareness that, you know, young and grieving and stuff, uh, is, is, has been part of it. So I suppose forgiving myself a little bit. Yeah, I think meditation's really helped, uh, with, with that, with that work and trying to sit with myself, um, which is really difficult for me because I'm— and the way I've coped with with my grief is through work. And, and although a lot of that lights me up and is purpose, which is a big part of well-being, it's like when not to oversteer. And there's a, there's a lot of other parts to well-being and, you know, um, which make whole person and looking after yourself. And, and that self-care bit, I think, is, is the, is the bit that I'm still working on.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 35:35
Um, you know, uh, it's not easy for a lot of people. I don't think it's been a socially ingrained part of our upbringing, especially, you know, our age and who our parents were and the generations that before them. So you said you're not very good at that part of well-being. What was the part? Because I, I can see it in your eyes. What's the part that you're really darn good at?
David Burns (Guest) · 36:00
Well, I'm, I'm a really, I'm a really passionate proponent of physical activity. And, and, uh, even though nourishment and food I'm challenged with, you know, that's a comfort for me. And, uh, you can't out-train a bad diet, as I know. Physical activity, sport, you know, exercise, and what that all brings with the wider stuff, um, you know, with connection and and building relationships with people. And, and, you know, for me it's about purpose in the work, in the work that I do. And, you know, trying to support marginalized groups, you know, people underserved or hard-to-reach groups through sport, whether that's, you know, people with disability, refugees and asylum seekers, people like me who come from lower socioeconomic areas with, you know, where there's kind social issues. Um, that's, that's what kind of lights, lights me up. Uh, yeah, that's beautiful.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 37:01
So what's— looking back on the journey, what has been a silver lining or some gems that you've gotten along the way?
David Burns (Guest) · 37:11
I think for me, your challenges can be your biggest gifts. So at the time you know, when you're dealing with adversity. And, you know, it was the worst thing that ever happened, losing my father. But, you know, the strength that I, I've, I've been able to come out of that. And, you know, I'm in Australia, and I've, you know, live in such a beautiful place. And, you know, uh, I'll be always, you know, grateful for everything that my, my parents have done for me. But I think, yeah, we can, we can become very down on ourselves or, you know, think quite insular when, when times are hard and we're going for adversity. But from my experience, you know, you can get so much learning and growth through that. It might not feel like that at the time, and that's why it's hard, you know, that's the friction and the tension and the discomfort. But, um, so that's the biggest one for me. Yeah, your challenges can be your biggest gifts.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 38:07
Your partner Jen has been with you throughout this whole journey? You said you met her a few days before jumping ship.
David Burns (Guest) · 38:14
Yes, that's right. Yes, she said to me, why are you moving to Australia? It's, uh, it's not very good, I'll say politely. Um, but, uh, yeah, she lives here now and we've got a, got a great life in Sydney. And yeah, it's, uh, she's been, you know, a big part of my healing and and grieving journey as well. You know, so like I said, I wouldn't have ever thought of therapy if I hadn't, if Jen hadn't said. And I think for her, she, you know, she just thought maybe later in life, you know, might all come crashing down, the cards might fall. You know, it's best kind of looking at this stuff a little bit earlier.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 38:57
Sometimes it takes the person outside of us that's close to us who cares about us um, to, to be— shine a light, and like the life be like a lighthouse. And it sounds like Jen has been that for you, which is lovely. Yeah, it's so great for your healing and, and your journey, and be able to come through it like you have. And for her to suggest therapy too, which is probably not something you've thought of before. No.
David Burns (Guest) · 39:28
No, again, that thing about I'm okay, you know, I'm, you know, I'm productive, I live my life, it's fine, you know. But it's been really great, Abilene, and I would say, you know, it's probably going a bit too far for a lot of people because as soon as you say the therapy word, they go, oh, you know, what's wrong with you? Yeah. That I think everybody could do with speaking to somebody.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 39:56
Couldn't agree more. Being able to be our full selves and all that we can be. I think that's what I'm hearing from you. And now when you speak about the work that you're doing and the business that you founded with Jen, you know, your face lights up. You know, you've got purpose and passion in everything that you're doing. And it's a combination of all the things that have been part of your past.
David Burns (Guest) · 40:19
Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's the mission, you know, bringing it to what we do in trying to reduce health inequity within communities. Because it is a, it is a, you know, it's about employment, uh, you know, it's about providing opportunities for, you know, um, in sport. It's, it's like where it's the social determinants of health in terms of, you know, where we— these all, these all affect how, how healthy you are, you know, where you live, where you're born, who, what work you go to, your relationships, all these types of And I think that, you know, everybody deserves, deserves a chance and, uh, yeah, to fulfill their full health potential.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 40:59
If there's someone listening to this who has, is experiencing anything that you, you've talked about on your journey, what would you like to share with them that might be of help or comfort to them?
David Burns (Guest) · 41:12
Yeah, I think just on reflection from our conversation as well, you know, you might think you're okay. But, you know, speaking to somebody, you know, you might just not realize what might come up for you. Yeah, which was, you know, part of what was my experience and has been really, really great in terms of, you know, my healing and, you know, kind of dealing with the trauma that I've had. Yeah. And if it, you know, it doesn't have to wait to them. If it's, you know, when there's stuff going on in your life, I think it's reaching out to people, um, that are around you and, and, and talking about stuff.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 41:56
Thank you, David. I so appreciate you sharing your story today. It's really powerful, and, and, uh, I love your authenticity and being so vulnerable about your journey and, and your upbringing. And I just want to thank you for being here. It's been an absolute pleasure.
David Burns (Guest) · 42:14
No, thank you. Thanks for listening to me.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 42:21
We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Kintsugi Heroes. Please like and share the show to your friends so we can get this out to even more people. If you have a story you'd like to share with us, please reach out using the contact details below. And join us next week for our next Heroes story. Until then, Keep being you, and remember that we are all heroes in our own unique way. Only when it's broken, only when it's broken, when it hits you in the middle of the night and the truth burns so bright. Only when it's broken. Only when it's broken.
David Burns (Guest) · 43:14
Take pride in those cries. It's only for tonight, and then you rise.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 43:22
Only when you're broken. Only when you're broken.
David Burns (Guest) · 43:30
Only when you're broken.
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