Wes Bending
Wes Bending lost his father, his brother to suicide, and custody of his son. He rebuilt by redirecting grief into spaces for other men.
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Wes Bending lost his father to cancer, his brother Brad to suicide, and custody of his son after separation. A rugby injury in his twenties gave him six months to spend with his dying dad, time they used to find a 100-acre farm in Bunya on the NSW Mid North Coast. The day after his father passed, Wes and his mother settled the property. Years later, when his middle brother took his own life in 2012, Wes and his older brother Rob created the Crownback Classic, a four-day gathering on the farm where men could connect, grieve, and talk openly. What started as a memorial for Brad's friends grew into something larger: a safe place for men to be vulnerable with each other, complete with golf tournaments, surfing at dawn, live music, and genuine conversation. The event raised over $20,000 for Lifeline and showed Wes something crucial: the worst thing you can do to someone in need is tell them you can't help them.
When Wes's marriage ended, he faced the hardest part of his adult life. He lost access to his youngest son and had to rebuild himself alone on the farm, commuting from Sydney to work while grieving a relationship and missing his kids. He learned to find peace in small things: a bird landing in front of him, the grace of a plastic bag floating in the wind. Yoga and breathing practices became his anchor. His son is now sixteen, and Wes's long game is waiting for the day they can have a real conversation about what happened and why. At forty-six, he returned to playing rugby, rediscovering the male bonding and tribal feeling that sport gives him. His story is about turning grief into spaces where other men can find connection, and about learning that every day is a blessing.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses grief & loss, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au • GriefLine: 1300 845 745 · griefline.org.au
“I haven't seen him for almost 12 months now, and it just kills me, you know. And it's, yeah, yeah, it's not okay.”
“Support is the big one, mate. Good friends, good quality friends, like they know when to ring. You can't do it alone. It's too much on your own.”
“You've got to find beauty in basic things to actually survive. Like, when you leave, you become so isolated. It's a great way to sort your friend group out because you lose 90% of your friends.”
The hero, today
When you become honest with yourself about why you're staying in something, you have to act on that honesty, even if it makes your life harder in the short term. Good friends know when to ring you without asking why, and they're the ones you need to survive a separation or any other crisis because you can't do it alone. Finding peace comes down to focusing on what's in front of you right now, a breath, a bird, the smallest thing of beauty, rather than carrying the weight of yesterday into today. The worst thing you can do to someone who needs help is tell them you can't help them, and that simple truth changes how you show up for the people around you. Grief and loss are doorways to growth, and the deaths of people he loved made Wes want to live better and made him see that every day is a blessing.
Yes. Wes Bending is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
When you become honest with yourself about why you're staying in something, you have to act on that honesty, even if it makes your life harder in the short term.
Good friends know when to ring you without asking why, and they're the ones you need to survive a separation or any other crisis because you can't do it alone.
Finding peace comes down to focusing on what's in front of you right now, a breath, a bird, the smallest thing of beauty, rather than carrying the weight of yesterday into today.
The worst thing you can do to someone who needs help is tell them you can't help them, and that simple truth changes how you show up for the people around you.
John Milham (Host) · 00:00
Kintsugi Heroes acknowledges funding that was made possible with support from the Community Broadcasting Foundation. Find out more at cbf.org.au. Welcome back to Kintsugi Heroes, helping people tell the stories they need to share so you can find the stories that you need to hear. This week, John Millum had a chat with Wes Bending. Wes grew up in a tight-knit family and yet faced some pretty tough times, including the loss of his dad and brother. Wes hung up his rugby boots to raise a family in the Big Smoke, but found himself drawn to Bunya. He now lives there, having been through a lot from dealing with a tough separation and not being able to see his kids, to his brother taking his own life. Wes's story is all about turning pain into purpose. He provides a means for men to share and show vulnerability, just as Wes did with John in this episode. Enjoy this one with Wes Bendning. Welcome listeners to another Kintsugi Heroes podcast, uh, Stories That Matter. And tonight we have, uh, we have a treat for you, right? Tonight we're talking to a great bloke, a man who's been on a journey, and I'm looking forward to you hearing about his stories and what he's learned from those stories. Uh, Wes Bendning. Welcome Wes to Kintsugi Heroes podcast, mate. Stories That Matter. Welcome, bro.
Wes Bending (Guest) · 01:31
Thanks, John. Thanks, mate. It's, uh, just for the record, it's my first ever Zoom, uh, meeting as well. So how exciting is that? It could be the first ever Zoom meeting in Bunya as well.
John Milham (Host) · 01:41
Really?
Wes Bending (Guest) · 01:42
No.
John Milham (Host) · 01:43
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This conversation includes a rugby injury and a dying wish, buying the farm the day after dad died, growing up close to his parents, every weekend on the land, his brother brad's death in 2012 and starting the crownback classic.
So tell us, you're in Bunya, you're, you're, you're setting new boundaries for Bunya on Zoom, mate.
Wes Bending (Guest) · 01:49
Well done.
John Milham (Host) · 01:50
So tell us a little bit, how, who is Wes and how'd you get to Bunya on Zoom with me, mate?
Wes Bending (Guest) · 01:55
I didn't even know where Bunya was. 20 years ago, but 2006, me and my dad bought a farm up here, and it was my dad's dying wish to retire in the country. Um, and but he was terminal with cancer, and he, um, I'd already retired from playing rugby, but he used to love watching me play, and he played a high level himself. He was an English, uh, schoolboy, and that's what brought him to Australia. He played first grade for Gordon. Anyway, I used to love watching me play, so I made a comeback after my first injury that ruined me. Made a comeback, had a big preseason, and first 5 minutes of the first game playing for the mighty Dwyer Lions subbies, I, um, stuffed my knee. But that enabled me to have reconstruction and have 6 months off work and spend the last 6 months of my dad's life with him. In that time, we bought Bunya.
John Milham (Host) · 02:49
Wow.
Wes Bending (Guest) · 02:50
So it was his dying wish to to move the country, and I entertained it with Mum just to give him that last sort of thrill. So me and Dad and Mum looked at maybe 25 properties from Gloucester to the coast, up the North Coast, and, um, yeah, we settled here for various reasons, but we bought a 100-acre, uh, paddock that had nothing on it, and, um, we settled the day after he passed. So we were able to spend Father's Day here in 2006. The owner, um, let us have a picnic here. So we had a great day. We got some great photos from that day with, uh, him and my eldest daughter Mackenzie, who was only 1 at the time, um, here on top of the hill and the view. And since then, um, I went on to fall in love with the idea of farming, I guess, and I guess leaving Sydney as well. And that's what led me to to be here now. So rugby, yeah, me wanting to play rugby for Dad to watch me play rugby, uh, getting injured playing rugby, having 6 months off work, going, what should we do? Let's go and buy a farm, Dad. So, and yeah, it was great. I really enjoyed the last 6 months of Dad's life. And, um, I got to— I was there the night he died as well, which is a, um, a privilege. It was hard, um, but I was so glad I was I was there to see him take his last breath.
John Milham (Host) · 04:16
So, um, yeah, it's an incredible, you know, series of sort of interlinked steps and sort of circles and so on. So had that been like— your relationship with your dad sounds amazing. How, how were you guys when you were growing up?
Wes Bending (Guest) · 04:33
Yeah, he was, he was a great dad. We were— he was the coach of my rugby team, and he was all— he was very hands-on dad. He was very Very fair. Mum was the discipline, really. Dad was a good guy, you know, so we didn't get in trouble by Dad. We got in trouble from Mum. Um, so I was close to my dad, and I, I did a lot of traveling, but I always come back and lived at home, and I, I was comfortable living at home, whereas my, my two older brothers, they couldn't wait to leave, you know, so they were gone by 17, 18, whereas I stayed until Mum ended up selling after, um, after Dad passed, so which I would have been 28, I think.
John Milham (Host) · 05:13
You're the one they couldn't get rid of, mate.
Wes Bending (Guest) · 05:15
Yeah, no, they couldn't get rid of me, but I was, I was happy to spend time with Mum and Dad from a very young age. Like, I just remember enjoying their company as, as friends, parents, and, you know, I don't know, it was just, that's who I am, just different to my, my brothers, I guess. But, um, Yes, I mean, that worked. We're very close. But in saying that, now that watching him take his last breath also, it's a hard image to get rid of. And it's, it's probably the only image I, I go to when I think of him. And it's, yeah, it's a, it's a confronting sight, but it's special all the same.
John Milham (Host) · 05:53
So you, you, you grew up, um, a close family, mate. Was it good?
Wes Bending (Guest) · 05:58
Yeah, really good. We had a privileged, privileged existence in Collaroy. You know, mum and dad together and not, not far from the beach. 3 brothers, you know, walk to the beach from a very young age, surfing, skateboarding, you know, rugby, cricket, anything, anything you could wish for as a young, young lad. And, uh, every opportunity. And, um, yeah, it was a— that was good, good existence. That's why, you know, for me to be on the Mid North Coast in Bunyip, basically it's west of Foster, you know, middle of nowhere. Even people in Foster don't know where it is. It's quite— it's a contrast from the Northern Beaches. But I tell you what, I wouldn't— I wouldn't go back for anything now. Yeah, I love the freedom of it.
John Milham (Host) · 06:43
So you, you, you mentioned you went to Bunya, uh, as part of the farewell journey of your dad, right? So you found yourself in Bunya setting up a farm with Mum, and you said you found love Yeah, I was—
Wes Bending (Guest) · 06:59
I just, I had this attraction to, to the land. And, and a lot of my mates, like, after I bought it, they— it was quite— because it come about quite fast. And my, my good friends are like, what, what did you do? You bought a farm? I said, yeah, bought 100 acres. Where, where about? So west of Foster, and it's 40 minutes from Foster, so it's not really on the coast, but it's close enough to not be too far to own 100 acres. And, um, so over there following, you You know, years of, you know, shipping containers and, you know, different structures and just, you know, grew. And, um, I spent, I found myself spending every available weekend up here, either on my own with friends or with my family. Um, but predominantly it was just me and my dog working on fencing and, you know, infrastructure and just getting out of the city. So it really, it really consumed me for years until 2017, I convinced my wife to, um, to move up here, not to Bunya because she refused to live here, but, um, we, we bought in Dabbiak and then we moved the family up here in 2017. And, um, we have been up here ever since.
John Milham (Host) · 08:06
So you, you were living with your folks and then you were married?
Wes Bending (Guest) · 08:10
I got married in, um, 2013, and I had a big house, so we lived there with them. With them at the start, but then we, we rented a few different places. And part of the reason for leaving Sydney was never, uh, getting into the property market. And I think my daughter, we moved up here when she was 11 and she'd lived in 6 different rentals. So it was, you know, you soon get jack of that. And, um, yeah, we saw an opportunity up here and being closer to the property was what appealed to me. And, um, Yeah, I convinced the wife to do it, and, um, yeah, that got us up here. And I'm no longer married and, um, separated and living a reclusive life on, on my farm.
John Milham (Host) · 08:54
So you now live in Bunya. So if you don't mind, but if it's all right to ask, right? So, you know, you convince your wife to get, uh, to get into the country.
Wes Bending (Guest) · 09:05
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 09:05
That, you know, was that hard for her?
Wes Bending (Guest) · 09:07
Was that why she wanted to stay on the Northern Beaches? Because she was not— not a bit Beaches, um, born and bred, um, and I guess she hadn't done much traveling, or if any, and I've done a fair bit, um, in the US and, uh, UK and New Zealand and different, different trips. So I, I like the adventure. So for me, moving up here, I guess, wasn't as big a deal as it was for her. So once I talked around and, um, you know, we are— we're able to buy another property with a nice home on it and we didn't have to rent anymore. That was, I guess, probably what got her across the line.
John Milham (Host) · 09:43
So, um, you know, things change, you know, like you, you, you're not married, mate. Is there—
Wes Bending (Guest) · 09:51
well, I started, um, to be honest, I, I guess through, throughout that period, I missed it. The next significant, um, event in my life was my, my middle brother who's older than me, Brad. I'm the youngest. Brad, um, took his own life in 2012, and that had a, um, a huge effect obviously on me. Um, but it also started my own, uh, spiritual journey, I guess, or journey of discovery, you know, question time. What's life all about? What, you know, what does anything mean? And that's, um, that's probably where my, where my growth began, began, and that started the wheels in motion. But also throughout this time, when I said we moved up here in 2017, I moved the family up here, but I was still, um, commuting to Sydney because I had a, had a pretty good plumbing business in Sydney. I had a guy that worked for me full-time, and I had so many good contacts, and making money down there was easy. So I, I didn't cut it off as quickly as I should after we moved up. I kept it and I was up and down the highway pretty much weekly, and that, uh, throughout this time I discovered the audiobooks, and that's when I really started to explore different, you know, psychology of mindfulness and different books. Um, I listened to the Bible in its entirety, uh, took me 80 hours. Um, that was an event and a half that, that got a lot of people talking because I've driven to Sydney for hours to go to a job site and they'd ask me how the trip was, and I'd say, yeah, I just listened to, uh, you know, half the book of, uh, Exodus. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that would get the, the, the job site talking, you know. That was a bit of fun. Um, and then, and, and I did it purely to, uh, you know, it's the most read book in the world, so why not read it yourself and see what the fuss is about? And I'm quite a anti-religious man, I guess. I don't— as much as in recent years I've found spirituality, I, I quite despise the human involvement with it.
John Milham (Host) · 12:02
Yeah, yeah.
Wes Bending (Guest) · 12:02
You know, the, the different— you know, especially when you talk about, you know, the Catholic Church and the atrocities that their priests and, um, people have done to, you know, thousands of people around the world, thousands of children. Like, it's not okay, it's inexcusable, and, you know, they should be called on. So I wanted to do that for myself, and I did that. But then that also led me to, you know, actually, the first ever book before that was The Four Agreements, which is a great book, Don Miguel Ruiz. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I spoke to you about this with— down on the Men's Mental Health Show where I met you. Um, that, that had an amazing effect on me. That was a great— and I still, I still I still refer on that, uh, refer to that book a lot. And it's, um, I think, I think you can live your life by— yeah, I really do.
John Milham (Host) · 12:52
You know, you're kind of like, you dive into things, right? So how, like, uh, do you mind if I, I take you back to your brother's passing? Because, you know, it's in some ways— do you think that was Um, you know, because you had, as you said, you had this great childhood and you lived in a great place and you had these connections with your parents. All right, do you know why you, your brother needed to go?
Wes Bending (Guest) · 13:24
I don't know. I don't know for sure. I wasn't, um, I was struggling to, with him, um, before he passed. The last few years of his life, I didn't like who who he was and who he'd become. And, um, he actually— he was living up in Yamba with his wife, and he left his wife. And then after my dad's passing, Mum moved up to Cranbach, which is a little small town not far from Bunya, and she really start— made a, made a new life for herself. And the, the, the locals were very welcoming, and, um, she, she started to, you know, find herself again after a, you know, lifelong partner. And then I— my mom told me that my brother was moving down to Cranbourne, and I, I just froze. I went, no, he can't. And, and she said, well, he has to, you know, he's got nowhere to go, and he's admitted he's an alcoholic and he needs help. And when she said that, I, I felt for him and I had compassion. I thought, okay, but in the back of my mind, I was so fearful that he was going to ruin it for my mom because he, he had a— he, he often left a trail of destruction where he went. And, you know, and obviously, Mom's, you know, gonna have a different take on this, and it's, it's going to be confronting for her to hear. But it's sort of, yeah, I knew, I knew it wasn't going to end well if he moved here, you know. And I almost, I almost somewhat predicted it, and I, and I said, because, like, I just didn't understand how someone could live their life the way he did and keep doing it. It didn't add up to me. So when he moved down, the first day I saw him down here, I, I saw him, he come out to my property and he was a broken man. And I felt so much compassion for him, so much love. And I thought, I need to help, you know, I need to do what I can to help him. He's my brother, he's my blood. But by the end of that weekend, I couldn't stand him. I couldn't stand his attitude. And I thought, you you're your own worst enemy, you know. You haven't, you haven't worked out some basics. But I was still living in Sydney, so I went back for the weekend and he was, you know, staying with Mum and that was that. So I saw him, but then he, you know, he got involved with town, the wrong people, drugs and alcohol, you know. He didn't work on his drinking, and that's pretty much the, you know, the slippery slope that you're on. If you don't make the right decisions, you, you can end up like that. And, uh, unfortunately, yeah, he, he did what he did, 2012. And, um, yeah, it was just— it was a terrible time for, for Mum and all of us. But Mum, you really, you know, it was only 6, 6 years after losing a partner, my father, then to lose a son. Like, it's Only another parent that loses a child would know the feeling. Like, it can't be like losing a parent or losing a friend. It must be, you know, unique in itself. So she still, um, you know, struggles with that, I'm sure. Um, but that— his passing also led to, um, a thing called the Crownback Classic, which me and my other brother Rob created. And that was a memorial or a gathering for started off for his friends, but then it ended up being for men that needed a break and often a hand and, you know, someone to talk to. And it really grew, and it, um, it, it had a life of its own in the end. And we did it from 2013, '14, '15, '16, '17, '18. '18 was the last one we did. Um, we didn't in '19 probably because of the COVID start of COVID-ish, but it was more so that '18 killed us. It was such a, a big event. We ended up, um, 2018 we raised over $20,000 for Northern Beaches Lifeline, and we— there was 150 guys camped here, and we had 4 bands, we had a golf tournament, we had a fishing tournament, we went surfing. It was a 4-day sort of men festival, you know. Yeah. It was such a special event, um, which grew over the years.
John Milham (Host) · 17:39
Uh, what do you think, first of all, what do you think you, you know, you wanted to mark your, your brother's passing? What, what was in, like, what was driving that? You know, you, you talk about how you've despaired of his, yeah, his changing. You know, did you feel like this was like, uh, acknowledgement of your connection, or what?
Wes Bending (Guest) · 17:58
I think at the start it was for his good mates. There was, you know, a handful of his good mates who really, really longed him. They really missed him, and they really were saddened. And as much as I was, that, you know, and that's what I said before, it's different, different relationships when they're broken have different effects on different people. So I felt, and because I had the, the farm, I thought, let's have a round of golf Yeah, and so the first year there was maybe 25, 25 of us played. And, you know, we had the idea of the green jacket and we had a tournament and, um, and it was a 2-ball Ambrose, so, you know, you could, you could get a better partner kind of thing. And that idea grew and that become our main moneymaker, was the, um, you know, we used to auction off better golfers Oh, you could. Yeah. So on the Friday night before playing golf on the Saturday, we'd have an auction, and, uh, any past winner would be auctioned, and any recognized golfer would go up for auction, and, and, and the auctioneer would tell, tell everyone a bit about their handicap and where they're a member of, and, you know, different people would bid. And like the last 2018, we had golfers being bought for over $1,000.
John Milham (Host) · 19:14
Wow.
Wes Bending (Guest) · 19:15
Just, just so, you know, different mates from Sydney who may or may not have known my brother but were into the cause. Because 5 years of the event, it grew every year, um, it becomes really spoken about and, oh, you got to go next year. And, you know, the last year we had David Thomas, the old CEO of Northern Beaches Lifeline, attended. We had, um, a counselor come up and, um, yeah, we had— because it wasn't you know, there was drinking involved, but it wasn't just the party. It was very— it was, it was men getting together and, you know, spilling their guts, so to speak, to other men. And, and that's where we learned, you know, all these sayings and different things like checking in, you know. And David Thomas, the second— first year we, we turned up, which would have been '16, I think, and gave him maybe $5,000 that we raised. And he was like, who are you? Where are you from? We told him, we said, we got this event, we're doing it next year. He said, what can I do to help? And we said, I don't know, whatever, whatever you think. And we told him about the event, and he goes, you guys really should do the accidental counselor course. And, um, we said, no worries. So he, he allowed— well, he said 4 or 5 of us could do it. But then I met Liz White, who's a beautiful lady from Lifeline. I'm not sure if it still works for him, but she She was there. Yeah, she means she— I don't know, but anyway, she, she hosted the course. And when I contacted her, she said, no, no, I'll, I'll take 20 of you. Like, so I rang 20 of my suitable, um, friends and people that attended the event and I thought would benefit from it. And we all went to, um, the Lifeline office in Balgowlah on a Saturday and attended this half-day kind of training, which, you know, doesn't really make us qualified in anything other than not, not telling someone you can't help them. Yeah, basically, because the worst thing you can do to someone in need of help is say, sorry, mate, I'm not the one for you. And I think that's the most, uh, powerful lesson I got from the day.
John Milham (Host) · 21:21
A powerful place for a bloke, you know, who, you know, had mates, you know, what do we want to learn? How to be able to have a conversation that shows how much we care and how much we value the bloke we're talking to.
Wes Bending (Guest) · 21:34
And it was an interesting comment from David Thomas. He said, um, he goes, you guys don't realize by hosting this sort of event, you are inviting people to come to you and they think you have the answers to their problems.
John Milham (Host) · 21:46
Yeah.
Wes Bending (Guest) · 21:47
And we were quite— me and my brother Rob were quite shocked by this, and we thought like I was taken aback. I went, well, they think that. And then the penny dropped. It's like, well, you are— you're actually creating a safe environment, and yeah, you know, you're promoting it. So yeah, the least we could do is try and, you know, be more qualified, if that's a thing. But, um, yeah, I remember— I remember some of the texts received after the event. It was so heartfelt. You know, you'd go to a party or whatever, and you might send a message next day, mate, thanks, what a great night. I'd get these pages of messages just of men, you know, really opening up and so deeply grateful for what that experience and the conversations they'd had and the effort we put into it. And it was really, it was really rewarding. And it's probably the thing I'm most proud of in this life actually is that the Crownback Classic— there's a bit of it on YouTube actually, it's, uh, Yeah, check it out.
John Milham (Host) · 22:44
I will. And I'll ask the listeners to check out the Cranback Classic, right? Well, why do you think it has— there's such power in like opening up an event like that, you know, like, you know, golf and, you know, a rough, you know, rough stay in a paddock and connection and fire.
Wes Bending (Guest) · 23:03
And, you know, I think it's pretty— I think it's pretty obvious actually, and it's quite primitive. It's that whole It's that whole hunt, you know. It's the men leaving the tribe and going out as a group into the wilderness together as warriors to band and to spend quality time. And one of my brother's good friends is a good friend of mine, Andrew Lansley. He spoke at every— before every gulp. That was where we did our speeches and we sung a few songs in tribute and that was where the tears come out. And, um, he— Andrew had his own struggles with depression, and he, he spoke from the heart of how, how hard it was and, you know, how important it was to get help. And, and, um, yeah, and yeah, it was— yeah, it was, it was such a, such a special, uh, yeah, time for me. I just think, I think it was just the men getting together, and, you know, most everyone came up from Sydney predominantly. Actually, some people coming up from Queensland, different Melbourne, actually a few long-lost mates, they sort of rallied. I think it's like that pilgrimage, you know, we're off again, it's that time of year, let's go and catch up with, um, you know, the boys, show our respects, I guess. Um, like we used— like we used to go surfing on the Friday morning and we called it Surf for the Fallen. It was, you know, We didn't really promote— we just had— we had some banners and we promoted it as that, Surf for the Fallen. And I guess you'd think it's about Bray, but I think people took their own, um, thoughts with, with them into that, you know, reflect on someone.
John Milham (Host) · 24:40
Because you—
Wes Bending (Guest) · 24:40
we used to get up, you know, before the sun was up and be down at either Boomerang Beach or Blueys Beach or, um, Saltwater. And it was like— it was just, um, so much, um you know, respect, and such a good thing. One year I think there was 40 of us paddled out boomerang on a Friday morning, like absolute nightmare for the locals. But what a, um, what a thing to do before such a, a big weekend, a big special weekend. It was just, we're always looking for more, add, add to it to make it better. So mate, Rob would have these ideas, let's go for an early surf. Oh yeah, let's do that, you know. Every we'd do it. So yeah, it was, um, so I think it was the men getting together that made, made it special. Like, no disrespect to the ladies, but you know, as men, we need our men's time, male time. I think it's one of the reasons why we're attracted to rugby and to male sports is because we need that bonding, that, that camaraderie, you know.
John Milham (Host) · 25:39
So why is it so hard for blokes to find that in their everyday life?
Wes Bending (Guest) · 25:44
I think, um, it's the modern-day society that's almost— I just think the pre— I think the pressure of, of everything is so, is so much harder than it used to be. I don't, I don't know. It's money's the, the driver of everyone's decision-making, you know. I can't do that, it's going to cost me too much money. I can't do that, I'm not going to make enough money. I'm going to lose too much money. It's always that first consequence of any action. Money. And it's— and I think that's why, why it's hard, and it shouldn't be. And I think, I don't know, the— what the— some of the wives have got that controlling nature over their men as well, and they don't, I don't know, want to have fun maybe.
John Milham (Host) · 26:26
I don't know. So, mate, we're walking on, uh, you know, on ground that, you know, man's ground here. So, you know, do you mind if I ask, mate, Um, you know, you, you're not married now. You mentioned that, right? Yeah. What went wrong?
Wes Bending (Guest) · 26:43
Uh, I've, I started— I finally become honest with myself, and, and I, I for a very long time was staying for the kids. And when you become honest with yourself, it's, it's not the right reason to stay. And I, I'm, I'm still feeling the effects of my separation because it's still very harsh what I have to deal with, and lack of, lack of seeing my kids. Like, I've got a great relationship with my eldest who's 19, but, um, I see my, my youngest every second weekend. It's intermittent because of some things, but my son, I haven't seen him for almost 12 months now, and, um It just kills me, you know. And it's— yeah, yeah, it's not okay. So it's, um, yeah, it just— yeah, so I— yeah, so I left. I honored myself by leaving, to be honest. So I'm not going to stay, you know. And you call it what you will, selfish, whatever. But since leaving and since talking to other men who are thinking about leaving and or have left, it's a very similar path we all walk down. And it's hard. It's, it's harder to, um, uh, to leave. Like, it's easy to stay. You don't have to, you have to put yourself out. You just live your, your life, you know, like you, you're comfortable in that way. So just to leave, you really, you know, you're exposing yourself, you know, you're, you're making your life harder. But I'm definitely living my best, my best life now that I've left.
John Milham (Host) · 28:23
What did you learn, mate, going through that, making that choice? You know, what went into that decision and what did you learn when you'd made it?
Wes Bending (Guest) · 28:33
Oh man, lots, lots of things. I've learned that, um, solicitors are liars and thieves, that, um, police don't really give a fuck about the man. It's a very lopsided affair. But, you know, on a deeper personal level, I don't know, like, you've got to— you, you've got to find beauty in basic things to actually survive. Like, when you, when you leave, you become so isolated. Like, it, it's a great way to sort your friend group out because you lose 90% of your friends. Yeah, half of them side with your, your, your ex and the other half don't know what to say when they see you. So it's easier just to run. So it's a good way to shake up your friend group, but your, your good core mates and friends are there. They stand up. So you definitely work out who your friends are. Well, look, it's a, it's an ongoing process and I was told like some good friends that, you know, it's a long game. And it never— I used to hate hearing it, but it's so true. It's such a, such a long game. You just need to get through it, you know, especially not seeing your kids. It's so, it's, it's so, it's so challenging. It really is. Like, you leave your partner for whatever reason, it doesn't make you want to leave your kids. But we're, you know, like, we're treated with, like, The first mediation with the solicitors, I wanted 50/50 custody, and the mediator and both sides said, you'll never get it. And I said, why? I've done nothing wrong. I left my wife. There's too much animosity between you two. The courts will never award it. And that was the explanation. And I wasn't allowed to push on by my solicitor, their solicitor, and the mediator. They said don't even bother. And I was in that moment, I remember in Newcastle being so deflated, going, so as of this moment, I'm not really fighting for my kids anymore. I get dictated when I can see them, and that ended up being every second fortnight and after holidays, which actually doesn't happen even though there's court orders in place. So what, what faith and hope are you supposed to put in anyone? Like My biggest advice to anyone going through a separation is keep the solicitors out of it. It's so, they're so deceitful. You know, they're running businesses and the best way for them to make money is to have you in their business. They don't want you to wrap it up quickly. You want to be, yeah. Anyway, I don't want to go down that road.
John Milham (Host) · 31:21
Well, mate, what, what, what I am hearing is how hard it is, and I, I know that from But yeah, journeys, you know, I've talked, like, I've spoken to him, of course, we're blokes who don't make it. How do you survive that?
Wes Bending (Guest) · 31:33
Yeah, well, that's, it's a good one. And that's what Brad, yeah, our good friend Brad Spillane was talking about on, um, Men's Mental Health Show with me. It's sort of like, how do you cope when so many don't? And it's definitely through my, you say spirituality, but I don't, it's a, it's, it's sort of like the word I don't like to go Sure, you know, all spiritual, but it's, it's about, it's more about, you know, you've, you've got to find peace within yourself and you've got to find beauty in, in, in everything. So you wake up and you see a bird and you've got to look at it and go, what an amazing animal that is. It just landed in front of me right there. And you've got to reflect on that and that's got to become your focus, not the fact you haven't seen your kids in in a month, you know. And you've really got to see beauty in little things, and you've got to take life for what it is. That's, that's what kept me— that's what kept me going, I think.
John Milham (Host) · 32:29
Did you learn that? Like, you know, how are you— how do you get— how does a plumber from the Northern Beaches, you know, start to, you know, look at birds and see the beauty?
Wes Bending (Guest) · 32:38
Yeah, yeah. Look, not many people know this, but there's a, um, there's an American movie I think it might be American Beauty. The opening scene is a plastic bag floating through the wind, and this guy's filming it, and he's showing his girlfriend, and he's saying, look how much beauty. He's almost crying. That movie, when I watched that, long time before I was married, a long time before my brother died, a long—
John Milham (Host) · 33:03
I—
Wes Bending (Guest) · 33:03
it resonated with me. I was stopped in my tracks. And his words, watching the plastic bag flow through the wind, was so beautiful, gracefully like floating. And I, and I don't know how you learn that. I just, it's an awareness of something.
John Milham (Host) · 33:20
Yeah. When, when you, um, when you, yeah, when you stop and when you mark the beauty, what, what's that like? What, what, what comes to you? What, you know, is it wisdom? Is it, you know, something that fills you up? Because, you know, you put, you put yourself, you know, you go through stuff and it's tough days, right? How do you get filled up on this?
Wes Bending (Guest) · 33:45
It's just gratitude. But one, one thing I'm really grateful for and lucky to have is I have the worst day, and, you know, my family, my close friends, and my new partner will vouch for this, like, I can really beat myself up for 12-hour period, 24-hour period maybe, but Generally, when I go to sleep, I'm always— I've always been able to sleep well. Whenever I wake up the next day, that day before's trauma has lifted, and I'm able to start off fresh. Very rarely throughout my last few years have I carried pain to the second day. I've obviously picked up new pain, but yeah, been able to go, oh, you know, really have a deep breath. And that's also come from my I, I forgot to mention. Yeah, I did. I, I discovered yoga a few years ago as well, and that was really, uh, pivotal discovery, I guess. Um, yeah, learning the practices of yoga and yeah, mindfulness and the breathing techniques and, you know, the basic, basic meditations.
John Milham (Host) · 34:48
And so, mate, the Bunya Yoga Club, how's that going?
Wes Bending (Guest) · 34:52
Is he—
John Milham (Host) · 34:52
have you started that or what?
Wes Bending (Guest) · 34:54
I have done, I have done yoga here before, but yeah, there's definitely a possibility for it. Uh, Yeah, who knows, mate. Anything's possible in Bunya.
John Milham (Host) · 35:02
And I'm seeing the Bunya Men's Retreat being resurrected again.
Wes Bending (Guest) · 35:07
I want to, um, I definitely want to utilize facilities because I've got some awesome stuff here actually. Um, we built a stage throughout the Crownback Classic to host the band, so we've got a big hardwood stage. Um, so I've got some cool things to to keep using and to promote. So who knows, anything's possible. I'd like, I'd like to give something back. Like, I like the idea of, um, maybe mentoring some disadvantaged youths. I think, I think that's an important, um, thing that gets forgotten about. I think, um, I think if you put a bit of time into anyone of any age, you can see the reward quite quickly and quite easily. I think it's, um, I don't know, it wouldn't take much to, to achieve that, you know, put a bit of effort in. No financial gain, just that fill your bucket kind of, kind of thing.
John Milham (Host) · 36:08
It sounds— I mean, I couldn't agree more. I love the idea.
Wes Bending (Guest) · 36:12
My last, um, 3 years, every conversation I have with different friends about their own experience of their own separation. Everyone's got some sort of childhood trauma that, you know, has defined their existence. So you take some, some youth that have got their own trauma and try and resculpt it, maybe with some mentoring or some, some sort, some sort of love. Who knows, it might change someone's direction.
John Milham (Host) · 36:43
I think that's a brilliant idea, man. I think research confirms that that's a great way to, to hit, you know, to, to get help young blokes heal.
Wes Bending (Guest) · 36:52
Yeah, I don't know, the money, like, we need money, but it definitely doesn't— it's not my, my driver in anything I do. Like, I, I'd rather be rewarded through someone who's just generally grateful for you. It's a much better— that's, that's throughout all the building that I've done up here, it's been from mates and Sydney, and one of them in particular, my good friend Jan, who passed away this year, he was a carpenter, a builder, and he called me aside once. There was about, I don't know, 13, 14, 15 mates up here for the weekend working on a project, and he pulled me aside. He goes, isn't it interesting that we're working harder than we do during the week and we're getting paid nothing? And we're all happier. Yeah, it was just an observation, you know. So, but every— all these guys were doing, working their guts out, not getting paid, all smiling. Like, there's something, something to be said from helping someone and not being paid, but be genuinely happy to help, you know. Yeah, it's a gift, isn't it, really?
John Milham (Host) · 37:58
Absolutely. And the wisdom of that— there's a lot of wisdom in your words, man. Where What, where did you find that wisdom that you mentioned earlier? The Four Agreements.
Wes Bending (Guest) · 38:08
What, you know, your books can only guide you, but I think the, um, I know it's wisdom's through thinking, it's through overthinking, it's through thinking of it and then thinking of it again, and then modifying your thoughts through a conversation you have with someone that's smarter than you or wiser than you, and, and being open enough to take on their thoughts and adapt them to your own, and to be humble enough to be wrong, and to always be a student willing to, to learn, you know. It's a, you know, to never arrive. You're everyone, like, we're always learning. There's all— well, you're never there. The greatest teachers are more than aware that they're, they're students as well, you know. Like, the arrogance of thinking that you've arrived and there's nothing else to learn And that used to be me as a, as a young man. I was arrogant. I was— I always thought I could— I knew it all and I was the best at it already. But I don't know what year that— I don't know, it must have— might have been my brother's passing time, maybe that kind of smack in reality, that wake-up call. Definitely combination between my dad and my brother, the two defining, um, events in my life with death involved. And time to reflect and to, and to learn and to grow.
John Milham (Host) · 39:26
Interesting. Men often find those moments of, um, passing, uh, either an opportunity to, you know, make a decision or change their lives. How do you think that's, that plays out in, you know, when you deal with the passing of men you admire and love? How does that play out for you?
Wes Bending (Guest) · 39:47
Oh, well, As I said earlier, so anyone passed in my life, it has a, it has a huge effect on, on me. It makes me want to live. So personally, when I find out someone's passed, especially if I know, like, a good, my real good friend, yeah, he died in January. He had a, he had a heart transplant 10 years ago. So, you know, you'd say he's living on borrowed time, I don't know, but we watched his health decline and And, but then when he passed, it was still a shock. But if anyone was going to pass away, it was always going to be him. But it just rattled so many of us. And, and he actually lived here for a while, and, um, after his own separation. And, and, um, you know, become so close to him while he was here. And, and he, he had such a good outlook on life. And with his heart condition, he lived better than anyone I ever knew, you know. He put the most into his kids and every opportunity. Nothing was wasted. So I think when anyone passes that I know, it gives me a, um, it gives me a real smack in the face, a real get on with it, you know, because you, you— no one knows. Every day is a blessing and every day could be your last, so make them You know, really make the most of it. And that's a lot of the teachings I've been involved with. It's all about living for the now. And it's a throwaway, not throwaway line, but it's a line that can be mocked, you know, but it's sort of, it's so true. If you can be present and, and not worry about tomorrow, it's so, it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's a beautiful place to be.
John Milham (Host) · 41:30
You, you mentioned earlier the long game, mate. What's your long game? What does that look like?
Wes Bending (Guest) · 41:35
Oh, my long game is my kids coming back to me. That's, that's, that's my long game. And just being open and being honest when they're old enough to, to want to have a conversation about it. That's going to be a beautiful day, especially my son. I can't wait to reunite with him because he used to be my, my little mate, you know. He used to love fishing and do all the cattle with me and just hanging out. He was always there and And for him not to be there anymore, I can't even call him. It's— it kills me that I just— I've lost him. And I, I wish I, you know, obviously I left and I, I turned his life upside down, but I don't know, maybe as a child you can't understand that. But, you know, he's 16 now, and I just— in the long game, maybe next week, next month, next year 5 years, at some stage I hope he's old enough to be able to have a conversation, you know, for me to apologize for and for me to hear his pain and to be here and for him to hear my reasons, you know, and, um, just to talk and reconnect. And that's, that's a long game for me, just waiting for the reconnection, I guess. Of the ones that have left, which may have been my kids.
John Milham (Host) · 42:58
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Wes Bending (Guest) · 43:01
Yeah, but all in all, it's support is the big one, mate, in, um, separation. And, you know, good, good friends, good quality friends, like they know when to ring. They know— I speak about it with Brad all the time, he's such a good friend, and he knows, like, we know each other that Yeah, like when he rung today to tell me about our friend that's, um, really sick, he— as soon as he said hello, I said, what's up, man? I knew something was up. And, you know, he broke down. And you got to have— you got to have good support that you can be totally vulnerable, vulnerable with, totally open with, tell them anything, just, just be so raw. And, and that's the only way you've got any chance of of getting through is having people to help you. You can't, you can't do it alone. It's too much on your own. Just this life, even if you're, you know, leading a successful life, whatever the definition of success is, but you just can't. To be, to live a solitary life, like I say, I live at Bunya on my own, which I do sleep here, but I'm at work every day, you know, talking to builders and clients and you know, with my partner. And, you know, I've got, I've got good connection with humans, and it's such an important thing for everyone to have on our own full-time, you know. I don't think it's healthy.
John Milham (Host) · 44:30
But, um, speaking of good connection, right, of course, you know, you also have great successes, right? The, you know, winning the rugby this year is no means bit of rage, mate.
Wes Bending (Guest) · 44:39
Oh man, that was such a Like, you know, it's, it's been almost 2 weeks now and it's such a, um, it's just a moment in time that the whole playing rugby again with, you know, men in their 20s and, and competing. And I'm, I'm obviously a shadow of my former ability, but when they've got no front rowers and you're the shape of a front rower and all, all they need you to do is hold the scrum up, then and I'm available. And they said, you're gonna, you're gonna play again next year. And I said, I'm not going to compete for my spot, but if you don't have one to hold the scrum up, I'm not going to let you not have a prop. So it's just, I don't know, it's being young and being healthy, or trying to be healthy through that, is such a positive way. It gets back to what we said before, that male bonding, the camaraderie, that that tribal, you know, band together, because it's brutal out there. Like, you forget how angry it is. Like, at 46 and you've got to get on the rugby field, you've got some, some overweight young kid in their 20s who looks at you, goes, I'm going to hurt you, old man. It's like, you want to get ready because that's what they're trying to do. Yeah, no, it was good. That was a good time.
John Milham (Host) · 45:57
It's interesting because, you know, you You're still connected to, to some of the traditional aspects of men, but you've taken it, you know, used your experiences to create other areas of yourself, expanded your understanding of what a man is. So what, what do you say? How, you know, how would you advise these young men about masculinity, about being a good man? What is a good man now that you've changed?
Wes Bending (Guest) · 46:24
You know, like a I really enjoy it, and it's quite selective as well, but I put more effort into some guys more than others. In, say, in the rugby team, for instance, and it's, I don't know, there's, there's a look, or there's a conversation, or there's a, there's something about people, and it's almost like they're ready to learn, or they want to learn, or they want to listen. And, and then when you engage, you can see that they're actually giving you more time. And it's like, so you, you see, you put more effort into ones that are ready or want to, want to hear what you've got to say, you know. So, but yeah, yeah, actually, you know, people, some people don't like getting older. I actually don't mind it because it's the only, it's the only real thing that, that make, that gives you that wisdom. And it's the, it's lived, it's that years, it's, it's miles under the belt. You know, it's stories, it's past experiences that have, um, been good or bad. They, they've, they make you who you are and you live to tell the tale and, and you're, you can reflect and be stronger from it.
John Milham (Host) · 47:29
So sounds very, um, you mentioned gratitude earlier, mate. Sounds very grateful.
Wes Bending (Guest) · 47:35
Yeah, gratitude is a big thing. It's, um, yeah, you've gotta, you've gotta be happy with, with this little things is what I, what I, uh, found. Yeah, it's, um, you know, your family and friends and your, you know, your dog, just different things like that, your animals and just your existence, you know. When, you know, yoga teaches you about the breath, and when you really break it down, it's the only thing that you need to worry about. It's the basic— without your breath, you know, you're not here. So You focus on that, you calm your mind, and life can be easier.
John Milham (Host) · 48:14
I feel like, uh, you know, I've sat at the foot of a guru, mate. It's impressive. So, mate, I've loved chatting with you tonight. So much wisdom, so much, um, you know, like, uh, you know, as a role model for, uh, for a bloke dealing with stuff, mate, I congratulate you on your journey, and I, um, I really, I like to think that we capture these stories because other blokes need to listen to them occasionally. So I think they'd do worse than listen to you, my friend.
Wes Bending (Guest) · 48:44
So well done, brother. I like to, um, I like to share, I like to give, I like to help. So hopefully I've shared, given, and helped someone on their own journey because I've listened to so many. I love it. I love a good podcast because to me it's having a conversation with interesting people, but you don't get to talk. Yeah, but you get to learn, you know, you get— you're a part of it. Like, I'm a big fan of some of the big ones, but I won't say their names. But I loved interesting people because of their stories, because of their— because of their lived experiences. When they share them, it's like, wow, that's, that's cool, you know. I can, I can learn from that, like, um, be inspired by that.
John Milham (Host) · 49:28
You know, so, well, mate, well, you were on the list now. Blokes are going to be inspired by your story. So great stuff, mate. Really appreciate you making time and thanks for sharing so, so honestly. And, uh, and I really appreciate it, man. It's been, it's been a thrill.
Wes Bending (Guest) · 49:42
Good stuff, John. No worries, mate. Take care, mate.
John Milham (Host) · 49:49
Thank you for listening to this episode of Kintsugi Heroes. Thank you to Colin for permission to use Broken as our theme music for this series. If you enjoyed this conversation, share the podcast with a friend and let us know by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to support Kintsugi Heroes and the stories we share, head to kintsugiheroes.com.au and follow the instructions. To make a tax-deductible donation. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.
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