Ross Durkin · 51 min
After 13 years trapped in gambling and alcohol addiction, and on the brink of suicide, Ross Durkin found recovery through one honest conversation, and has spent nearly two decades giving that same lifeline to others.
Hear this story
For 13 years, Ross Durkin gambled and drank to escape the pain of feeling like he didn't belong. It started in Year 12 at an all-boys school in Sydney, where he was isolated and struggling. Placing a bet at the local TAB offered temporary relief from the negative thoughts consuming him. He was trapped: every Thursday he'd get paid, spend everything by Saturday, and struggle until the next paycheck. By his mid-twenties, he had credit card debt, no friends who knew the real him, and a brother who eventually told him to leave after 18 months of secret gambling. He was homeless, thinking about suicide, and had tried and failed to stop countless times.
The turning point came in early 2002 when an old school friend walked into a Gamblers Anonymous meeting. Instead of judgment, this man shared his own story: jail time, recovery, and the professional help that had saved him. For the first time, Ross dropped the tough-guy mask. He became vulnerable, cried, and felt hope. That friend introduced him to a psychologist and cognitive behavioural therapy, which taught him that his thinking drove his feelings and behaviour. He could interrupt the cycle. He threw himself into the fellowship, supported others, and slowly rebuilt his life around his stepdaughter and newborn son. He wanted to be present for them in a way he'd never been present before.
Now sober for 20 years, Ross works with Lifeline Australia supporting regional communities. He holds a counselling degree and spends his time helping others find the same lifeline he found. His message is simple: find one person to tell. It doesn't have to take 13 years of pain. Recovery is possible, and it opens a life of genuine connection that he never thought possible.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses addiction & recovery and suicide & self-harm prevention, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • SMART Recovery Australia (addiction): smartrecoveryaustralia.com.au • ReachOut: au.reachout.com • Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au
“I remember sort of putting on a bit one day and the one thing that really struck me was it just took away the negative self-thoughts that I was having.”
“I was more or less homeless, I was starting to think seriously about suicide — I had no detailed plan but I certainly didn't want to live any longer. The pain had become so much and I felt like I tried hard enough.”
“It was like all the walls had finally dropped — that sort of masculinity, that need to be Mr tough guy and sort of act like everything was okay — just went crashing down.”
The hero, today
When Ross was at his worst, it wasn't information or advice that changed things; it was seeing someone he respected who had been through something similar and come out the other side. The turning point came when Ross realised his thinking was skewed and learned through cognitive behavioural therapy that his thoughts drove his feelings and his behaviour, giving him a way to interrupt the cycle. Ross spent 13 years gambling because he lacked the support and language to name what was happening, and he wants others today to find help earlier by reaching out to someone trained, whether a friend, GP, or psychologist. Recovery didn't happen because Ross wanted to be a successful businessman or achieve something for himself; it happened because he had a stepdaughter and a son, and he wanted to be present for them. What Ross gained was not just sobriety but the ability to drop the mask of toughness and become vulnerable, which opened up genuine friendships and a family life he never thought possible. Mental health is not about having a disorder; it is about looking after your emotional wellbeing, and reaching out to talk to someone when you are struggling is the most ordinary and most important thing you can do.
Yes. Ross Durkin is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
When Ross was at his worst, it wasn't information or advice that changed things; it was seeing someone he respected who had been through something similar and come out the other side.
The turning point came when Ross realised his thinking was skewed and learned through cognitive behavioural therapy that his thoughts drove his feelings and his behaviour, giving him a way to interrupt the cycle.
Ross spent 13 years gambling because he lacked the support and language to name what was happening, and he wants others today to find help earlier by reaching out to someone trained, whether a friend, GP, or psychologist.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 00:07
Welcome to the Kintsugi Heroes podcast, where we share inspirational stories of everyday people going through different challenges and how they overcome them. Please be aware that the story you're about to hear may have moments of deeply felt emotions and personal experiences. If anything you hear has a triggering effect please reach out to someone who can help keep you safe. If you love this conversation, we'd love you to like and share it with your friends so we can continue to share more inspiration and hope to as many people as possible. Now listen up for our next hero story. Sometimes we can forget how close to home mental health issues and addiction really are, especially if it's not around us. This conversation with Ross Durkin really showed me that it can impact anyone. Often we're so busy we don't see it, and Ross has lived his life with mental health issues, anxiety, depression, and addiction. He's been sober for 20 years, but this story is a real raw account of how easy it can be to fall into it or be impacted by it through genetic, whether it's societal, and how it can be someone in our group, in our class, in our family, in the workplace. What I love is how Ross has turned his life around and how he helps others, and he's done so much for others, and now he's, you know, helping people with therapy and groups. And he's a member of Lifeline Australia. And at the moment he's helping people in regional New South Wales towns, which is really, really important for those towns to get that kind of support that's really needed. So well done to Ross. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. This is Ross Durkin. Hello, this is another episode of Kintsugi Heroes. I'm Aveline Clark, and I'm here with my guest Ross Durkin. How are you today, Ross?
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 02:25
Yeah, very well, thanks, Aveline.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 02:27
Yeah, good to have you. Um, first of all, thank you so much for offering to share your story with me and everyone listening. I really appreciate it.
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Recovery didn't happen because Ross wanted to be a successful businessman or achieve something for himself; it happened because he had a stepdaughter and a son, and he wanted to be present for them.
This conversation includes before the move, three schools in three years, the all-boys school that broke him, the first bet at the tab, the printing apprenticeship and the cycle and the friend with the unit.
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 02:38
Yeah, no, I'm glad to be here today. And yeah, I certainly don't think of myself as some hero, but if, um, if my story can help even one person out there, I'm really glad to be here today. So thank you very much.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 02:49
You're welcome, and I'm sure it will. And, um, it's, it's an honor and a privilege to, to speak with you, and I'm looking forward to hearing your story. So let's, let's go back to where it began. Uh, can you describe for me, I guess, your life? Like, take us back to what was going on for you before your challenges started, what was going on and how was life, and then take me into what you experienced.
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 03:19
What I'm going to speak about today is addiction, and especially in relation to gambling and drinking. And one of the things when I did finally find recovery was there was a couple of really important points in my adolescent years that probably had a bit of a stronghold on what led to me sort of going down that path. And I suppose to really sort of give you some background, My father was a bank manager, and back in the day, bank managers used to move around every sort of 4 to 5 years. They didn't like them to sort of become too sort of entrenched in communities, I think was their thinking. So I spent my teenage years on the South Coast in a very small town down there, and I— towards the end of Year 10, my father got a transfer to the Mid North Coast. At that stage, I was very much entrenched within that community and within that school sort of footing and very comfortable playing sport down there. I was in the surf club, playing golf, football, all sorts of things. So it was quite a shock to find out that we'd be moving at that stage. So we went up to the North Coast and I remember through those school holidays, it was fairly lonely time. I didn't know anyone up there. My brother, who's 18 months older than me, he, he'd finished school. That year, and he came up the North Coast with us. And he just— in those days, it was difficult to find employment, especially for younger people. So he ended up moving to Sydney to get a job. And after 12 months on that in the North Coast, my parents decided to bring the family all back together, and they decided to move to Sydney again. So that meant that I sort of went to 3 different schools from Year 10, Year 11, and Year 12. I found it really difficult. I'd sort of settled into that North Coast town, And even to leave there again, I found it really difficult at the time. And through that period was another sort of 6-week school holiday of spending by myself and not knowing anyone. I actually also broke out in acne throughout that period, really quite badly. And so my self-confidence was really taken a jolt by that stage. And I sort of, I didn't know it at the time because especially 30, 35 years ago, you didn't speak about your feelings as a 17 or 18-year-old boy. But I was, I was struggling at the time. I was lonely. I was probably very sad. And I was probably a little bit resentful towards my parents at the time as well. But that didn't come out, it probably just came out a bit more as anger. And I was just sort of a lot of pent-up stuff that I just couldn't sort of get out to other people. So I ended up going to Year 12 at that school, which was an all-boys school in Sydney. And to say it was a struggle was an understatement. I, I'd always sort of fit in at other places, although I probably struggled a little bit early like anyone does. But at this school, I really did struggle. I'd played rugby league growing up, and I had this thought of myself that that was my whole identity. And I turned up at this school as if I was the new star of their football side. And I was just really young and immature and just didn't sort of understand a lot about sort of how to sort of go about sort of fitting in at that stage, unfortunately. So I really struggled and I felt very rejected throughout that period and I struggled to sort of find any real sort of close friendships. And I did myself no favours. I really sort of wasn't sort of very warm and I was very impatient and just didn't sort of do the normal things that people do to sort of form friendships. Halfway through that year, a few of the boys within that year used to sort of go down to the local TAB because it was very close to one of the racecourses in Sydney. And I just followed them down one day and I had had some experience living in the country of going to the races and always got a little bit of a buzz on reflection betting. And I remember sort of putting on a bet one day and the one thing that really struck me was it just took away the negative self-thoughts that I was having. I was just like going into a little bit of a temporary relief. From all the different stuff that was going on for me, trying to sort of cope with Year 12, the pressures of not sort of feeling like I belong, really sort of took that away. So every time someone was heading down to the TAB, I would sort of go with them and people would start to go to races on the weekend and I would sort of try and join in on that activity as well. So after completing that year at school, I was definitely starting to struggle a little bit. My self-identity, like I said, I I didn't know it at the time, but I certainly didn't have much self-confidence. I had pretty bad acne. I felt like I had no real friends and it was just a really hard time for me at that stage. I, I, um, my parents working in a newsagent and having the belief that we've got to keep working all the time, which was just the way it was in those days, sort of, you know, gave the paper to me fairly quickly, the Sydney Morning Herald, to find a job once I did finish my HSC. And I was never going to go to university. I don't know why on reflection, but I was never going to sort of do a course. Maybe I didn't, I probably didn't even get the marks to do that. But I, uh, I got an apprenticeship in the printing trade and something that I wasn't very well suited to, but it was just a matter of getting a job. And, um, I'd given no real thought to what I wanted to do. You know, a lot of my thinking was all around sort of survival through that 12 months. And there wasn't a lot of curiosity about what skills I really have and, uh, It's one thing that I sort of reflect on sometimes and think I wish I would've taken the time to really sort of understand where, what direction I wanted to go. I ended up doing an apprenticeship and I ended up finishing the 4 years. There was a lot of times there that I really didn't want to be there. And I actually got bullied fairly badly within that job by a couple of tradesmen. And the boss wasn't probably the nicest man that I've ever had the pleasure of meeting on reflection either. And I wish I, you know, if I had my time again, I probably would've, you know, packed up and found something else. But again, I just lacked that confidence to be able to think that maybe I could sort of even find another job. I was in a fairly bad way at the time. Didn't know anything about sort of mental health in those days, but just knew that things weren't great for me at that stage.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 09:25
Did you have, uh, your parents or close friends that you could speak to about any of this?
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 09:31
Yeah, it's, it's an interesting question. I didn't have any real close friends at that stage, and the ones that I, I did, I was playing football and sort of started to form a few fairly, some good friendships, but we didn't speak about that sort of stuff. It was all about, we'd always meet in the local pub where the football team sort of gathered, and it was always about the races were on and the beers were there. It was more about sort of, you know, just what boy, young boys or young men sort of talk about the footy, sport, betting, racing, whatever. There was never any conversation around sort of, I'm struggling and I'm really doing it tough. And even my parents, as much as loving and caring as they were for all of myself and my siblings, they came out of, you know, their values and beliefs. Their parents actually were part of the Great Depression. So as far as jobs and security, it was all very much 'We need to have a job and you're very lucky to have a job, so just put up with this and get through it and finish the 4 years.' So it was that sort of attitude. So I would sort of not really even go there that often, you know. But that's about the most support that I had. They were supportive, but there was very much around, you know, 'Very lucky to have a job, you just got to keep going, you've done already 18 months of it, why would you throw it away now?' And I see where they're coming from to a certain extent as a parent myself now, but I think that sort of part around sort of the more understanding we have in this day and age of that emotional wellbeing, opposed to making sure we do have a job or doing well at sort of something academically. Yeah, for me, it's definitely more important these days. So that's why when I sort of say on reflection, if I had my time again, I would sort of make sure that I would have done something that was probably better suited. Through that period, my gambling, as I said, we'd sort of, I'd sort of still living at home, but a lot of time was spent either at football training or down at the local hotel. And my betting was really sort of starting to take off. You know, it was, again, it was my escape from not sort of feeling that great about myself and not feeling that great around the world, about the world around me, and especially around my job where I was sort of spending most of my time as well. So I was sort of living this life where I'd get paid every Thursday, and in those days we got paid cash, and I would sort of— Thursday and Friday were okay because I could go down the pub and I could bet and drink with my friends. I'd usually spend all my money by sort of Saturday and really struggle until the following Thursday. And it was just that cycle of up and down all the time throughout that 4 years. If someone would have come to me through that stage and said, listen, Ross, it looks like your gambling's a problem, I probably wouldn't have— I would have told them to go away, really, because I would have thought at that age I didn't have a great deal of understanding. And I would have said, look, this is the only thing that I love in life. Leave me alone. Why would you take that away from me? Because I just hadn't experienced the pain yet of what the gambling had sort of brought. So it's a real— and it's interesting now that I work in the field that I do, and when I see red flags for younger people, it's really hard to step into that space and tell them, look, you're probably headed for some really sort of big pain sort of coming up. But the problem is, as I would have, really hard to tell someone until they feel that pain themselves, which is really, really unfortunate sometimes. I finished that apprenticeship and I was sort of asked to leave that job because I wasn't very good at it. And they sort of had me doing meaningful tasks and I had no passion to do anything there. And as I said, the relationship wasn't great. One of the guys that I did work with though, he was linked to a football team that lived a couple of hours out of Sydney, was up in the Central Coast. And he asked me, he said he could get me a job at another place on the proviso that I came and played football for this team. Up there. I didn't even have a license at the time. And I sort of, looking back again, so many bad choices I made through that period. I decided to go and do that. This guy didn't end up being the sort of most supportive or best guy in the world. So I was sort of traveling up and down as well, trying to hold a job in Sydney. It was all just, I got injured throughout that season. It was really, really chaotic. So, and again, a lot of gambling, a lot of drinking throughout that period as well, and really sort of starting the fun that was starting to come out of what was originally— couldn't wait to get down the pub and sort of be with my friends and gamble and do that sort of stuff because there was sort of a lot of pain starting to generate out of the gambling. I always remember a friend coming into the hotel who, um, I played football with and must have been about 23 or 24 at the time, and he was sort of there to celebrate just buying a unit. And, um, that was the first real time that it hit me in the head that maybe things aren't that great for me. Not only could I not afford to sort of put a deposit on a unit, but I couldn't even really afford to probably get the bus home at that stage of the day. And plus the money that I already owed on credit cards and other people I was borrowing off at the time. So that was the first real jolt that I really got that, wow, maybe things aren't great here. But again, in those days, there was no sort of talk about responsible gambling. There was no sort of talk about any help around any addiction. And it seems really strange. It was only sort of, you know, 30 years ago, but there just wasn't. So I just sort of pushed on thinking I was, you know, a little bit different than most people. I got to about the age of 25 and things had really sort of started to deteriorate by this stage. People were getting very sick of me sort of borrowing money. I had a lot of credit card debt. As I said, my parents were really sort of beside themselves thinking, you know, what's going on here. I really wanted to leave home because of the pressure that I was probably putting on them as well. But this cycle and this addiction that I was stuck in just kept me driving. And that's the, that's the problem. As stupid as it seems to everyone on the outside, everyone would just say, Ross, why don't you stop gambling? But there was this other stuff that just kept driving that, you know, the way I felt about myself, the way I was relating to other people, my thinking, or my mental health, as they call it, just wasn't fantastic at the time. I'd lost a lot of confidence, and I just wasn't in a state to be able to do that. One guy one day actually said to me, he said, you need Gamblers Anonymous. I'll never forget that. You know, it was a Saturday afternoon, it was a beautiful sunny day, and I was sitting in the hotel. Must have been about 5 o'clock, and he could just tell there was something not right. And I remember saying to him, if only there was a place like Gamblers Anonymous, I would, you know, I'd go there. I'm that beaten at the moment, I don't know what to do. Because I had made attempts myself to say, That's it. I'm not betting anymore. And it'd probably last a day, a day or two until I got my next pay and then I'd sort of go back to it. I was really lucky. That guy sort of looked into it for me and he found out there was a meeting in Surry Hills in Sydney on the Monday night. And I actually went to that meeting by myself and I always, I still remember vividly that sitting there that night just by myself, sort of very awkward and thinking, how did it come to this? There's a couple of people shared that night that really sort of I related to just in regards to their story. And I started to go to that meeting one night a week for about 9 months, and I abstained from gambling through that period. There wasn't a lot of growth emotionally because I didn't— again, just being very new to it, I just thought, well, if I go to that meeting each week and stay away from gambling, that's all I need to do. What I probably didn't realize at the time was my drinking probably accelerated through that stage. Instead of sort of using the gambling to escape the way I felt, it sort of— I leaned more towards the drinking through that period. Again, I'll never forget, they asked me to do a role which meant going to a monthly meeting within that sort of fellowship. And I didn't go one night and someone had a go at me. And I sort of took that the wrong way and sort of said, well, that'll do me, I'll just sort of not turn up at all anymore. So I stopped going to that meeting altogether. About 2 weeks after I stopped going to that meeting once a week, I decided to think, well, maybe I can sort of put a line in the sand and just go back to, you know, try gambling again and doing it in in a controlled way. That didn't last for very long at all, you know. I lasted about a weekend, and my gambling really accelerated from there. Once I went back to it, it, uh, it really took off. And, um, within sort of a couple of months, I was back in the same problems I was sort of before I'd even gone to meetings. So the unfortunate part of that was that I ended up going through about, um, another 5 years of a whole lot of pain. And the worst thing was I knew I had a problem at that stage. I've learned enough through those meetings that I'd attended, that this wasn't that I just enjoyed gambling, there was more to it, there was more behind it than this. So it was really painful period for me. You know, I don't have any great war stories to share, you know, like some gamblers do, bank robberies or anything like that. But there was just little things in my journey that were just really things out of character and things that I, you know, I look back on that just sort of really were painful times throughout my life. The There was one particular weekend where in the old days you used to be able to sort of put a betting card in and it would go through automatically at a club or a hotel. And I don't know how they do it these days, but it was late at night and I'd done all my money and the guy who was running the actual tab, he yelled out and he said, don't put that in there. He knew what I was about to do because he knew I had no money. And the club was about to close and I put it in there and I think it was $500 or $600 bet I put on. I didn't have any money on me. Was on a greyhound race. The greyhound didn't win, probably came last. Um, and this guy more or less said, okay, just stay there, I'm ringing the police. You know, you can't do this sort of activity. I remember I had to go the next day to a work function. I was taking some clients out because I was still working at this stage. And I thought, ah, you know, what's happened here? I was really lucky again. I had a friend of mine who actually was in in the building at that time. And he actually bailed me out of that so that the police won't call. But there was a lot of little sort of misdemeanors around that sort of activity that just, you know, I was too much of a coward to do anything really big criminally. But I did a whole lot of little things that, you know, really, I would push the sort of boundaries a lot of the time. There's another time there, I got a redundancy when I was probably 28 or 29. I had these grand plans to head up the coast for a couple of months and just sort of have a real sort of relax and try and sort of balance up. And that was when the casino first opened in Sydney. And I went down there one night, I hadn't been there before. You know, within 4 days, I'd knocked all that money off from the redundancy. I just couldn't stop. I kept sort of going back home. And even my flatmate at the time, I remember, he would say, he would be begging me, please just stop. But I just, that obsession, that compulsion just was sort of, you know, driving me and I just couldn't. And I did all that money, like I said, within 4 days. I had no job to go to. The job had a car with it, and I had given that car back as well. So again, just to really sort of, you know, the way I felt about myself was, you know, self-perpetuating at that stage. I already felt bad enough, but it was— the gambling was just driving things really, really badly. The other really big one was probably my brother. Like a lot of friends who I'd met through football, I was very, very lucky, you know, like people looking back really sort of had my well-being at heart. And, you know, my brother took me in, he said he just got married. And he said, you know, my wife and I want to take you in, look after you for 6 weeks, get you back on your feet, you know. And I said, oh, fantastic. And I ended up staying there 18 months at their place. You know, I just, looking back, I don't know what happened, but I just ended up staying there. I continued to gamble without really telling him. I came home one day and tried to borrow money off him after about 18 months. And I still remember his response. He said to me, look, I can't give you that money. But what I want you to do is pack your bags and get out. And that was like, he just cut me off at the legs there and then, you know, and I remember, if he would have given me the money, I would have gone down the pub and just carried on the same way I'd always carried on. And it was great that he did that to me that day. It really sort of put a shock into me, or You know, I went from this person who was just gonna head down the pub to thinking, wow, I'm homeless all of a sudden. At that stage, I had an unregistered and uninsured car that I'd probably been driving around for 3 years. And I think I stayed in there for a couple of days until another friend had sort of taken me in. But even by that stage, friends that I even played football with were starting to understand that, stay away from him. You know, the money situation is never great. So I was in a really bad place. But even that wasn't enough to make me stop, you know, I just, I would try and try and try and I just couldn't stop, you know, and people from GA days, Gamblers Anonymous days, going back that 5 years would stay in contact with me. And one day a guy rang me up at the set, just in the beginning of 2002. And people would often say, just, you know, I'll take you out for a meal, and we'll just have a chat, make sure you're okay. And maybe you could come to a meeting with me. And I'd always say, yeah, I'll come for dinner with you, thinking, well, I'll get a free feed and I might be able to even borrow some money off you as well, because that's where I was and that's how manipulative I've become. And I went with this guy one night and, um, he somehow talked me into going to the meeting after dinner. And I walked into this meeting, there was about 4 or 5 people in there that night, and about 10 minutes after the meeting started, a guy walked in who I'd actually gone to school with in Year 12. I remember thinking to myself, you know, I was more or less homeless. I was starting to think seriously about suicide. I had no detailed plan, but I certainly didn't want to live any longer. The pain had become so much, and I felt like I tried hard enough, you know. But I still remember thinking as he walked in, wow, you know, now this guy's going to know how much of a loser I am as well, you know. The ego still was there, you know. And I remember thinking to myself through the meeting, I'll just tell him that I've, you know, gone a bit silly on the gambling in the last month, but really my life's okay. Because we hadn't seen each other for a number of years. We played football together. We were fairly close friends, I thought, you know, but we'd lost touch with each other. And I was just more worried about what he was thinking about me than any situation that I was in, you know. And I still remember that night so vividly again, because it was a changing point in my life, you know. When that meeting finished, I think I tried to make a beeline for my car so I didn't have to speak to him, but he sort of grabbed hold of me and he didn't really ask me how I was going. He sort of more or less went into his story about what had happened to him since we'd seen each other a number of years ago. And his gambling had led him to, to do a couple of years of jail. And he had only been released sort of 8 months earlier from that night. While he was in jail, he sort of got connected with a couple of people who really went out of their way to help him. And he also got some professional help. So he just told me his story. He was really honest and open about the way he felt, what had driven a lot of that sort of behavior for him. And I still remember, you know, really breaking down and sort of being vulnerable for the first time in my life. It was like all the walls had finally dropped, that sort of masculinity, sort of I had to be Mr. Tough Guy and sort of act like everything was okay, just went crashing down. And I remember really crying and nearly sort of crying on his sort of you know, sort of holding him and sort of just being in really, you know, quite distress. And, um, we spoke for a couple of hours that night. I still remember getting into my uninsured, unregistered car and driving back home. But for the first time in a long time, there was some hope in my life. And, um, it was a real, real turning point for me. You know, he, um, he grabbed hold of me and took me to other meetings, um, in the next sort of couple of weeks.. And I met up with some other guys that I didn't even know attended Gamblers Anonymous, who were sort of old football guys. And we sort of became quite a unit of sort of, you know, 8 to 10 guys that would sort of go to different meetings a lot of the time, catch up for dinner. Also sort of put me in touch with some professional help that I took advantage of. Like, he sort of said at that stage, you know, to go to a psychologist. If someone would have told me that, I would have said 'You kidding?' You know, but because he'd done it and someone that I sort of related to and seen what sort of changes had sort of happened to him, I went along with that. And it was the greatest thing I ever did, was to do that, you know. And I learned the skills of, you know, cognitive behavioral therapy, which sounds really, really confusing, but it's, it's so not. It just sort of means that our thinking plays such a role in the way that we feel and ultimately the way we ended up behaving, you know. And a lot of my thinking was just so negative around myself, around, you know, the way I thought other people perceived me, around the world itself, you know, how scary a place it was all the time. So I was always having, you know, and that would generate a lot of negative feeling in me. And when I got that negative feeling, I wasn't sort of emotionally mature enough to cope with that. So for me, I would just run off and gamble. And that was the way that I dealt with it all the all the time. So just learning that stuff was just unbelievable for me, you know. And having that support and that friendship sort of combined with that just made sort of such a difference. Sorry for the interruption. This is Ian Westmoreland, the founder of Kintsugi Heroes, and thank you for listening to this story from one of our amazing heroes. Our mission is for these stories to provide hope and inspiration to people experiencing experiencing life challenges and to also educate the broader community on how best to provide support. If you would like to help us to continue to produce more hero stories and cover more adversity themes, we would welcome all donations. These can be made via our website kidsuperheroes.com.au. The donate function is at the bottom of the home page. We'd also welcome any feedback. You can or email me direct using ian@kintsugiheroes.com.au. Now let's get back to the story. So what happened was I, um, I sort of became part of Gamblers Anonymous and really sort of threw myself in there. There was a period of about 12 months where the drinking sort of really accelerated again. Although I was getting some other help. And I really sort of had to sort of understand that a little bit. And I actually— some drugs sort of came into my life. So instead of sitting in a pub, I was now finding myself going out to parties and doing other things. But being that addictive personality and having these issues around myself and the way I perceived other people, I was sort of often leaning towards things that I would escape from. But I was really lucky again, you know, people notice that very quickly. And I didn't turn it into the same pain that the gambling gets you addicted to. But it was a really, you know, it sounds a long journey and a really difficult road, but I'm so glad I went down that path. And I suppose the message I'd like to put out there today is, you know, in my day people didn't even know about, you know, that gambling could cause problems or there was any help. So hopefully today people, when they do feel that pain a little bit earlier, can respond a little bit quicker.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 28:30
Ross, I've got a question for you, please. Um, take what you just described, that the night where your old school friend came in and you spoke afterwards for a couple of hours, and you said that was a turning point. What exactly do you think was the, I guess, the driver for that turning point? Is it the friendship? Was it the someone to understand you? Or was it something else?
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 28:55
I think gambling Until that happened, whenever I went to a Gamblers Anonymous meeting, it was quite often an older lady sharing or a guy who I didn't relate to at all, or just someone who I, I don't know, I just didn't feel part of. I don't know whether it was because I'd been in the fellowship earlier and I felt like it hadn't worked for me and there was something different about me, but that guy that night who I'd played football with. He was a very good footballer, very good sportsman actually, really funny guy at school. So it just gave me that— I don't know, but it was just permission to sort of think, well, if this guy can do this, maybe I can do it as well. And that's really, really important part for me, you know, just to be able to relate to someone else really sort of made a bit of a difference for me. And it's really interesting now when I look back at that, all those people that I didn't think were that were so different to me have become my greatest friends these days, you know. So it really just— again, when I tied in with that CBT stuff, it was just my thinking that was sort of a little bit sort of skewed. And, you know, we talk about mental health, and that's what had happened to me. You don't have to have a serious diagnosis, but once things start to skew a little bit and we think we're a little bit different, or, you know, people are— we're perceiving people the wrong way, it becomes really, really difficult. But he, he turned that around for me, you know, and obviously forever grateful for that. Yeah.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 30:23
Are you still friends with him today?
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 30:25
Yeah, we are. Yeah, we're very— it's interesting. We don't live in each other's pockets. And there's a group of about 7 or 8 of us that have all gone off on our own different paths, but we still catch up at meetings. And we're always there for each other. It's a real— I don't want to sound like it's a cult or anything, but there's definitely a brotherhood between the guys that You know, there's him and sort of 3 others especially that's very, very close. Yeah, yeah. And we still touch base regularly. And if we've got— if there's anything going on in our lives that we need to discuss, we can sort of openly sort of have that conversation. And we don't, you know, we don't sort of muck around with much small talk. We sort of are able to get to the crux fairly quickly, which is really nice.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 31:05
Yeah, it's really powerful to have that. Talk to me, Drew, about coming out of it. I mean, you've got the turning point, then what did you— what was, what was the path kind of in recovery? What, how long did it take? What did it, how did it feel? What did it kind of look like for you?
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 31:24
Yeah, like I said, mine wasn't a beautiful sort of that meeting and off I went onto this great recovery. You know, drinking and drugs became a part of my story, unfortunately, for 12 months. But they say that's the way it happens, you know, nothing happens really sort of where everyone sort of just finds this magic and sort of it happens. But for me, it was about, I really threw myself into Gamblers Anonymous. I wanted to go to meetings without the gambling. I was still, you know, I was so used to sort of the chaos and the madness in my life after work, especially I didn't really know what to do with myself. So sort of by putting myself into meetings, and I was very curious to listen to other people. I've always been sort of I like to hear other people's stories and really sort of being open to sort of more, you know, and being more vulnerable to myself, you know. I really sort of developed some really good relationships through that period, and that led a lot to sort of, you know, the way these fellowships work is once you have a bit of recovery yourself, helping other newer members. And I really sort of threw myself into that for a number of years on the back of, again, this guy, the way he did it with people. And some other friends that I had in that place. And that became, you know, there's a couple of stories there that I could share. Like, at this particular, my home group, we used to sort of— there was a, there was a rehab up at the old Manly Hospital called the Phoenix Rehabilitation Center. We'd go up there. If there was ever any gamblers in there, we'd give them a lift to the meeting and a lift home. I still remember one night picking a guy up there who, he looked really, really dangerous. And he was sitting behind me in the car. And I still remember driving to the meeting, thinking, oh, wow, what's going to happen here, you know, and he couldn't really speak to anyone. He had no confidence. He was really sort of, you know, he was struggling. And he looked fairly mean guy, you know. And the beauty of that story is, you know, he ended up, once he left the rehab, he came to that meeting. And sort of, I used to drop him home to his home after the meeting. And he said to me many years later, he said, you know, you believed in me when I didn't believe in myself. And that's probably what the other guy did to me as well that night. And Long story short, he went on to become a clinical psychologist, and the help I got from him was just absolutely amazing. Like, I got it back, they say tenfold, but it was about 300-fold. Like, it's just some of the stuff he was able to help me with, you know. And that same guy, he got me to go back and do a, um, I went back and did a Bachelor of Counseling in 2012. I shouldn't say go back because I never went to uni originally, but I did that degree part-time, sort of after work. It took me sort of 4 years, but it's, you know, gave me the opportunity to change from what I was doing in the printing industry into a mental health field, which I've been in for the last sort of 8 or so years, which has been fantastic.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 34:07
What a beautiful journey. And I love hearing the, what you said about this guy and how he gave to you and gave you what it was that you also probably got from your high school friend, that belief that someone believed in you. And it, it's so simple, isn't it? And yet there's no guarantees that we have someone that believes in us. And I think if, if only we did, then the, the journey would be so much easier.
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 34:38
And it's a really good point that you bring up, Avalon, because, you know, I, I think a lot of people get caught up in the— they've got to have all the answers for other people. You know, they know they've got financial problems, relationship problems, or work problems, whatever it may be. I can't go near there, I just don't have the expertise. But just by sort of reaching out and being there for someone is all we have to do. And just sort of getting that message out to people is really, really important. Yeah, it's a good point.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 35:07
From the time that you started gambling until you stopped, how many years was that? Can I ask?
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 35:13
Um, probably about 13 years that I sort of gambled for. And that's where I was scared to probably come on the podcast today because I don't want people to think, wow, I've got to go through that much pain until I sort of find recovery. It doesn't happen that way for a lot of people that, you know, we're really lucky today, especially in the fellowship. There's a lot of people that are 21, 22 in there. And especially the way they market, you know, the football betting or sports betting these days. You know, it's unfortunately sort of getting people into trouble a lot, lot earlier than probably what they did in my day. So yeah, it just doesn't have to be like my story, I suppose, is my point. Mine was an extended amount of pain, which I still look back and think, wow, I was lucky to make it through there. I mean, I would, you know, the truth probably burning, and I've sort of said this already, I made it through because I was very lucky. I had some supportive family who looked after me. And I'd made some fantastic friends. Although I talk about the pub as probably a place where probably wasn't a great environment for me, I was really lucky. I played with some really wonderful people through that period who really sort of always looked out for me and tried, just wanted the best for me. So, you know, I often say the, the saying, you know, there but for the grace of God go I, when I see someone who's homeless, because no one lasts for 13 years and keeps working and doing what I did unless they've got a lot of support around them. And I was really lucky that I did have that, you know.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 36:35
So yeah, yeah. Have you been able to share your story openly and with your family and your older brother?
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 36:43
Yes, yes. Yeah, no, we— I have been. Yeah, very much so. Yeah, no, it's probably hard for my mother and father to listen to because like all parents, they feel responsible. But I definitely don't hold them responsible for any of the stuff that happened, all the decisions they made. For the best for our family. But we all get affected in different ways and the way we perceive different situations, you know. So it's just the way that was. But yeah, no, definitely become very close with my older brother today.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 37:13
He—
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 37:14
and I don't think he'd mind me saying, you know, he— we've had similar sort of battles around, you know, different things that have happened in our lives. But he didn't fall down that addiction sort of pathway. At all, but we've definitely been able to sort of talk about, you know, the way we feel and sort of the way we behave, and that's been fantastic too, you know, that experience.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 37:36
That's really nice that you're able to share that with them and look back on what he did for you by kicking you out.
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 37:41
Well, that was my younger brother, sorry, who actually did that.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 37:44
Oh, okay.
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 37:46
Yes, but my older brother was the one that— yeah, no, but both of them have played a big part in my journey along the way. Without a doubt.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 37:53
That's wonderful.
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 37:54
My sister actually too, so I was very lucky in that regard.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 37:58
Yeah, you do sound— from everything that you've said, it does sound like you had a lot of luck, a lot of good people, like you said, around you to sustain you for those number of years. Um, when you were, when you were coming out of— I guess, you know, you're back engaged in the fellowship and going to meetings, um, and then you were on the the path of healing, should we say, because it's a healing journey, isn't it?
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 38:23
Yes.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 38:23
Not just stop gambling, stop going to the TAB. It's completely mental and emotional and all the rest. What was it mostly that got you through, that pulled you towards wanting to get out of it, away from the pain, towards a better life?
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 38:41
I'd sort of got into a relationship just right at the end of my gambling. And I had a stepdaughter who I wanted to be better for her. And I also had my own son who'd just been born. I was still sort of drinking when he was born for about, um, for about 8 or 9 months. And I knew I just wanted to be better than what I was at that stage, and that was the driving part for me. I never wanted, you know, to stop gambling and be this great businessman, or I knew I was never going to play football for Australia, or I was never going to climb a mountain or do anything crazy. The one drive that I did have was I just wanted to be a good dad and try and be the best person I could be for those, for the kids. And that was really, really important for me. And that, you know, I'm not going to say I've been the greatest dad of all time because, but I'm really happy with what I've been able to do, you know, through my recovery. I'm one of the only fathers that probably went to every sort of school assembly that he was getting an award at, every sporting event, you know, I've been sort of been able to be there. I've coached his football team since he was 6 years old. My stepdaughter, who's now 25, you know, we struggled early, and that was on the back of my sort of immaturity. It's really hard sometimes to be a stepdad. But, you know, our relationship today is fantastic, you know, and I put that down to just sort of being around this fellowship. It wouldn't be the way it is if I would have stayed on the same path, you know. I see a lot of people who unfortunately don't find recovery, I suppose, who, um, it's a really big battle for them. And I think that's what really drove me when I had the kids. I used to hear some stories around, you know, people that had lost touch with their kids and wish they had their time again because, you know, they would do it very, very differently. So I think I was really lucky in that way that I started a bit later and didn't have, you know, the kids too young to really sort of understand that's what I want to. And that's, you know, it's been great for me, you know, that fam. I've had to give a lot of those football and pub sort of friends away, not drinking. And they say that to you within the fellowship, it's, you know, you can't sort of keep your old world and expect to sort of have a new one as well. And that's unfortunate, but I had to do that, you know. So So my life has become very much sort of around the family unit, and you know, that's what I love. As silly as it sounds, you know, having the kids and their friends in the car and driving them to places and picking them up and doing that stuff, you know, it's been fantastic.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 41:13
So that's, that's really wonderful to hear. You, you mentioned, uh, in 2012 you got your Bachelor of Counseling and you've been working in that area ever since. That would have been a very cathartic and healing process for you. I, I, I could imagine going through that. Did it also give you a completely different sense or view of mental health than what that meant, how it related to you?
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 41:39
Yeah, well, it, it did, um, for sure. Like, what I did, just to give you a bit of background, when I first finished at uni, I was lucky enough to get a job as a group facilitator at a, um, private hospital that looked after clients that had mood disorders and addiction. So I would sort of go there and sort of talk about CBT for a couple of hours within group facility, uh, group setting, and then I would also do some individual counseling. So that was fantastic experience. Then I spent 3 years there, and then I did 3 years, uh, doing suicide prevention workshops. I was doing that with Wesley Mission, so I would travel all over Australia to all different communities. And that's where I actually met, um, Ian Westmoreland. He attended one of my workshops one day. And Ian, if people don't know, is the founder of Kintsugi Heroes as well as Mentoring Men, you know. We did some fantastic things together throughout that period. And, and then I— the last job I've got is working with Lifeline Australia as a, um, community consultant. And with the project I've been working on is looking after communities within regional New South Wales that have high incidence of suicide. The only reason I say that is that those 3 jobs have really given me sort of a great understanding of sort of moving away a little bit from just straight addiction and even to the point of where I got to with my mental health. But just understanding what mental health really means. You know, we throw that word around, mental health, and I think scares a lot of people sometimes. You know, the first thing people think of that aren't in the field often think of a condition or a disorder, and that can be really frightening for a lot of people. And I know even farmers, you know, they hear the word mental health and it sort of— they shut down straight away because they don't give it much thought. They're not talking about it a lot of the time. For them, sometimes it's like an old movie, you know, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest or whatever it may be. And we're not talking about that. You know, when we talk about mental health, we're talking about our emotional wellbeing. And that usually relates to, as I've been speaking about today a little bit, you know, the way we think, which leads to the way we feel, and ultimately the way we behave. You know, we want to look after and have good, positive mental health. And that's all we're sort of looking for when we sort of talk about mental health most of the time. They often talk about it as being on a continuum. And at one end of the continuum, there is some really serious mental disorders that cause a lot of pain for a lot of people—schizophrenia and, you know, deep depression and high anxiety. But up the other end, everyone's still on that continuum somewhere, and we're all going to sort of have a mental health move at different stages throughout our life, you know, whether it be a relationship breakup, whether we get a redundancy at work, And, you know, even for me, you know, I've got a redundancy while being in recovery and it really jolted me. You know, the confidence really sort of dropped again. And the funny thing is, for a lot of people, once one thing happens, it can often be compounding. So we can lose, you know, a job, can cause relationship problems. Sometimes people don't see their kids and all of a sudden things are really working against us. And that's what can happen to a lot of people. So That's the one message I suppose I really sort of like to get out there, that mental health doesn't necessarily mean we're talking about a disorder or a really severe condition. You know, when we talk about mental health, we just want to really sort of focus in on just sort of looking after ourselves. And if we need to sort of talk to people, that's what we need to do at that stage. And that's what I think a lot of men, you know, they put their hand up and say, yeah, I'm there for my friend. If he needs help. But when we're the one that needs help sometimes, I still think there's a real stigma around sort of putting your hand out because we feel like we're going to be diagnosed with something really serious. And most of the time, that's not it. But, you know, just that ability to share something with someone and be vulnerable can make such a difference and really sort of help someone. Because they— you know, I know beyondblue and the Black Dog Institute, they talk about early intervention. Really, really is so important in this space. Because if we do catch ourselves and able to sort of, you know, be able to speak and get some different opinions from different people instead of relying on our own thinking to sort of fix ourselves, sometimes that can really sort of make a huge difference in people's lives.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 46:05
Yeah. Yeah. Looking back over the journey, Ross, what's been, I guess, the biggest positive or takeaway or thing that you've learned along the way with that perspective?
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 46:18
I suppose the biggest thing for me has just been the change in my lifestyle. Like I said, I just had this wall up all the time that I had this image of being this guy that played football, tough Aussie male. I wasn't that tough, but I used to try and put on this image that I was. But just to be able to drop that and become vulnerable and really sort of be, you know, it's just opened me to a whole lot of new people within my world. And some fantastic, you know, I've just developed some fantastic relationships with people that I would've never ever have done before, you know, and that's, that's probably been the biggest thing for me just to be able to sort of move into that space, you know, and really sort of enjoy that. And I suppose the other side of the thing is the family, you know, just to be able to be there and be present. That's a real gift that I've sort of been given as well.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 47:07
It's a beautiful gift.
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 47:09
Yeah, no, it has been. Yeah, thank you.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 47:12
Um, if there's— if someone's listening to this episode, Ross, who is going through addiction or gambling or anything that you— how you've described today as part of your journey, what words would you like to say to them right now?
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 47:28
I suppose the one thing is to try and find that person to speak to. Today we are lucky where there are people that have had gatekeeper training, whether it's a friend whether it's a GP or someone, just to go and tell them what's going on for you. And hopefully that can lead to some help. I'm not telling everyone to sort of do what I did and walk into a Gambles Anonymous meeting by themselves because that's not for everyone. In my day, abstinence was the only sort of road to recovery. Today there's a lot of different sort of avenues. There's, you know, a lot of people just go and see a GP and get a— go and see a psychologist, which as I said is a fantastic road. There's places like Smart Recovery, which are more based on harm minimisation around gambling or drinking than sort of total abstinence. And sometimes that's a better answer for some people. But I suppose the key to the whole thing is not just living in your own head and expecting to find the solutions, because that's where I stayed for a long time and it was just such an awful, painful place to be. And I think if we reach out to someone and we don't get the right response, whether it be a GP or a friend, try someone else because there is help out there. And sometimes it doesn't take a lot, you know. I'm not saying it's an easy journey because I know people that are sitting there that have sort of, you know, had nearly 20 years, you know, from non-drinking or non-gambling like I have, you know. So, well, there's pain along the way and I get that. But if I can do it, other people can do it. And that's sort of the message that I want to give. Yeah. And it's worth doing, you know, once we find that path, things can change fairly quickly. A lot of people think it's all about the money, but it's not so much about the money on the gambling. You know, there's other stuff that you learn along the way that's really, really beneficial to helping you sort of enjoy a better life and, you know, better relationships with people around you.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 49:18
That's gold. Thank you. I wanna, um, thank you for sharing your story today, Ross. I, I. There's a lot, there's a lot there. And I know that there's a lot of wisdom and things that we can all learn from and take away from what you've shared. And I'm sure that people listening will be really grateful to hear everything that you've shared and especially the importance of, like you said, letting down the barriers and connecting and being vulnerable and letting go of those facades, you know, to allow yourself to connect with someone else because it's through that human connection that We actually can live a joyful experience. It changes everything.
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 49:58
Yeah, it really does. Yeah. And that guy that sort of in 2002 that reached out to me, he was the last guy I would've expected to be able to sort of drop the guard and be able to do what he did for me. And that always sort of gives me the courage and strength to sort of do it for, try and be there for other people and do that. Yeah.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 50:14
Well, you've definitely lived a, a, a courageous path. Journey, and thank you for sharing that with me today.
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 50:22
I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 50:30
We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Kintsugi Heroes. Please like and share the show to your friends so we can get this out to even more people. If you have a story you'd like to share with us, please reach out using the contact details below. And join us next week for our next hero's story. Until then, keep being you, and remember that we are all heroes in our own unique way.
Ross Durkin (Guest) · 50:57
Only when it's broken, only when it's broken, when it hits you in the middle of the And the truth burns so bright. Only when it's broken. Only when it's broken. Take pride in those cries. It's only for tonight. And then you rise. Only when you're broken. Only when you're broken. Only when you're broken.
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