Joanne Brooks · 51 min
After losing her husband in a sudden accident, discovering a devastating secret, and then watching a $30-million business collapse overnight, Joanne Brooks rebuilt her life not once but repeatedly, driven each time by purpose, her daughter, and an unshakeable refusal to stay down.
Hear this story
Joanne Brooks grew up in a household where her father made every decision unilaterally, and her mother had no say. At 18, forbidden from going to university, she was forced to ring bank managers every day until she landed a job. That experience taught her something essential: if she wanted something to change, it had to start with her own action. She spent 17 years in banking, rising to teach commercial lending to brokers in rooms full of men who questioned her authority. But work was also her escape from a difficult marriage.
In September 2001, Joanne was told at her office that her first husband had been killed in a car accident. Within 72 hours, she learned he had been HIV positive. Her family pressured her to keep it secret, a burden of silence that traumatized both her and her four-year-old daughter Nicole. Joanne stayed focused on giving Nicole the most normal life possible. Nearly a year later, a man named Paul picked Nicole up after she fell in a ditch while doing landscaping work next door. He became her anchor through everything that followed.
Frustrated by long daycare hours, Joanne left her finance job to start her own business. It grew slowly until she saw an opportunity to launch an RTO called Entamio. From zero to $30 million in turnover in just 24 months. But the pace was relentless. She signed contracts with people she wasn't aligned with, made decisions she knew were wrong, and felt trapped on a machine she couldn't step off. When a major partner suddenly cancelled their contract and withheld $2 million owed, the business collapsed overnight. Rather than drag it out past Christmas, Joanne liquidated the company. Her staff, nearly all of them, stayed unpaid for a week to help her move furniture.
After five minutes on the floor, Joanne returned to the question that had worked at 18: what is the one thing I can do today? She learned that staying connected to purpose, surrounding herself with people who served her growth, and letting go of what no longer aligned with her values was what got her through. Today, she is healthy, thriving on the Gold Coast with her family, and building again.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses grief & loss, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au • GriefLine: 1300 845 745 · griefline.org.au
“she is the epitome of resilience despite a really tough life in a lot of respects and yet she may not see it as tough but a lot of tough things have happened to her”
“that was four days of absolute trauma not realizing that this was the case family all around me”
“that was a secret that I kept for a very long time and it was a very difficult secret because I actually kept it for my parents”
The hero, today
When Joanne was 18 and forced to ring bank managers every day until she got a job, she learned that if she wanted something to change, it had to start with her own action. After her first husband died, Joanne stayed connected to her daughter's wellbeing above her own grief, which became the anchor that kept both of them moving forward. The growth of Entamio to $30 million happened so fast that Joanne lost sight of why she started it; she felt trapped on a machine she couldn't step off, and the universe 'tipped her off' through the liquidation. Joanne deliberately distanced herself from people, including family members, who didn't serve her, and surrounded herself instead with people who could build her up and grow with her. When facing any crisis, Joanne asks herself one question: what is the one thing I can do today, and that single focus, combined with going back to your purpose and surrounding yourself with the right people, is what gets you through.
Yes. Joanne Brooks is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
When Joanne was 18 and forced to ring bank managers every day until she got a job, she learned that if she wanted something to change, it had to start with her own action.
After her first husband died, Joanne stayed connected to her daughter's wellbeing above her own grief, which became the anchor that kept both of them moving forward.
The growth of Entamio to $30 million happened so fast that Joanne lost sight of why she started it; she felt trapped on a machine she couldn't step off, and the universe 'tipped her off' through the liquidation.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 00:02
Welcome to the Kintsugi Heroes Podcast, where we share inspirational stories of everyday people going through different challenges and how they overcome them. Please be aware that the story you're about to hear may have moments of deeply felt emotions and personal experiences. If anything you hear has a triggering effect, please reach out to someone who can help keep you safe. If you love this conversation, please like and share it with your friends so we can continue to share more inspiration and hope to as many people as possible. Now listen up for our next hero's story. In this episode, I had the pleasure of talking with Joanne Brooks. Joanne has had a very interesting journey. Her challenges have spanned career, and personal, and they're interwoven, starting with leaving school at 18 and being told by her father that she can't go to university and then having to break out of her comfort zone to be able to get a job right through to running a multimillion-dollar company many years later and then losing it all. She lost her husband in tragic circumstances, becoming a single mum, She is the epitome of resilience despite a really tough life in a lot of respects. And yet she may not see it as tough, but a lot of tough things have happened to her. We can all relate to these kind of challenges, the everyday challenges of loss, loss of, you know, human life, loss of business, and a loss of your goals and your dreams. And having to recreate those. She's done all of that and she peels it all back in this story and it's, it's great. I'm really grateful to Joanne for her authenticity, her vulnerability, and being able to share all of this with me. I'm sure you're going to enjoy this one with Joanne Brooks. All right, so here we are. It is another episode of Kintsugi Heroes and I am here with Joanne Brooks. Welcome, Joanne.
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 02:17
Oh, thanks. Yes, delighted to be here. Yes.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 02:21
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Joanne deliberately distanced herself from people, including family members, who didn't serve her, and surrounded herself instead with people who could build her up and grow with her.
This conversation includes a girl in a cupboard, the move to gold coast, the motel, the divided room, told no to university, forced to ring the bank, the shy girl teaching blue suits, police at reception with news of death and the secret she kept from her parents.
Oh, thank you. It's so good to have you. Um, I was so, so happy because you're the first female we've got, first female hero. So congratulations to you.
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 02:30
Exciting, is that right?
Aveline Clark (Host) · 02:34
It is.
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 02:35
Yeah. Wow.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 02:37
Of course, we've known each other for a little while, and, and I do know a bit of your story, but, you know, I know that you've got lots of wisdom always, and so I'm really looking forward to hearing what you have to share with us in your story today.
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 02:53
Yeah.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 02:54
So to get us started, can you take us back to back before, I guess, the first challenging event happened? Like, paint a picture for us. What was going on for you in life? Where were you? How old were you? Just paint a little bit of a picture for us. And then take us in.
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 03:10
No trouble at all. Um, I was born in the early '60s in Wollongong. Um, I was— Mum and Dad— Mum stayed at home. She, she always wanted to continue nursing, but when she got married, things stopped. And that was the way our family unit worked, to the point that in 1974, my dad came home and said, so I've sold the car, sold the house, the dogs have been sold, we're moving to the Gold Coast, uh, without consultation. And that was a gen— that was the normal rhythm of our family, which I'm sure would've been very difficult for my mum. No concept of it for myself as a young child. And we moved from Wollongong to the Gold Coast a week before the 1974 floods. Very exciting time for an 11-year-old to be exposed to those floods, which did go through the entire place that we were living in. Had just arrived with boxes. Very exciting. Very exciting. Super weird. Again, very challenging for my mom, I'm sure. And then my dad's first business that he decided to start was a lawn mowing business, which was really interesting because the reason he moved to the Gold Coast was that he had very bad asthma and was allergic to grass. Super interesting concept. He bought a lawn mowing business. My mom was delighted. She was an avid gardener. And years later, he made the decision we'd sell it, sell the house, and he bought a motel. Again without notice to my mum, just said, this is what we're doing. So I grew up in my teenage years in one room with my older brother. My dad built a divider between us in this one room. So from age 12 to 21, we lived in that one little room, two teenagers, which was super interesting. Couldn't have friends, couldn't do anything because it was all about the customer. And in those days, even my hair dryer would interrupt the TV. In all the rooms. So it was an interesting, interesting childhood. I adored my dad and he always was a bit of a mentor to me and there's lots of things that he taught me. But it was this dynamic of he always made the decision, mum didn't have any, any say in the matter. To the point that when I finished high school as an 18-year-old, I was a little bit older in those to finish grade 12, and I always wanted to go to university and that was not an option for me. I was not allowed to go. My brother went, he was allowed to go, but Joanne was not allowed to. And the only universities were in Brisbane. So what he said to me, so a little bit more context, I was an incredibly shy girl. So if I couldn't be found, you would find me in the cupboard playing with my dolls as a very young child. So I was super, super quiet, very shy. I couldn't say boo to anybody. And my dad said to me, so when you finish grade 12, you'll go and sit the banking exams. So I did that. You went, did that on a Saturday. So I did all that and that was in 1980.. And then I came home going, yeah, right, I'll just wait for that. He said, no, no, you will ring every branch manager every day until you get a job. And 2 weeks later I got a job, which is super interesting because it was terrifying. Absolutely. It was, it was the calling. I had no sense of what I was selling, just that, can I have the job yet? And the reason I got the job, the branch manager said to me, was that you rang, you kept ringing and you were persistent and you, you didn't become top of the mark in the, in the grades. And so, you know, I joined that bank. And I ended up marrying the first person that I actually ended up going out with as a 21-year-old. So married very young. But by that point, I'd already had some investment with my dad in owning property. So he was giving me some good lessons on how to manage money well, all of that. And so we bought our first house at the age of 21. And then at the age of 25, we decided, you know what, we're just going to sell the lot. And we went overseas for 12 months and we just traveled the world and ended up running and managing a pub in Knightsbridge. Two young 25-year-old Londoners.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 07:16
Who's we? You and your husband?
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 07:18
My first husband and I. So we actually— do you know how to pour a beer? Well, yeah, in Australia. We just said yes and we winged it and we ended up managing this pub. For a number of months, which gave us a great base to go and travel around the country of England. And at that time, I remember we managed to get £100 a week each as our income, and we negotiated an extra half day off. So we had 1.5 days every week to go and watch. But it was interesting because we were right behind Harrods and we managed the pub and we got rid of Sounds terrible. We got rid of the Pommy workers and brought in the Aussie and the New Zealanders and had a great time. Some great lessons in that as well of managing. Never have, never done that before. And we just winged it and came back, came home with some great experiences and then started again. As a married couple, went and lived with our parents again, which was interesting, as you do. One of the things I guess I learned in that very first part of the story about ringing the bank every day until I got a job, That was a lesson that I didn't quite realize what it was, but it was a lesson to know that if I wanted something, I had to go for it. It was up to nobody else. And so unconsciously, I managed to find a way to get promoted through the banking system. Again, I got promoted out of the Gold Coast office into head office in Brisbane. And they said, you have computer experience?
Aveline Clark (Host) · 08:54
Well, of course.
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 08:56
Never even looked at one and just worked, found my way around it. Still this very shy person, all those sort of things. But the one thing that I was rather good at in my career was if I wanted something, I knew I had to put my hand up and ask for it. Stayed in the banking system for about 17 years and ended up working for one of the largest finance broker companies in Australia because I was teaching people how to write commercial plant and equipment lending, which was a very unusual thing for a female to do. It wasn't normal for me to walk in a room with a bunch of blue suits and Joanne would be there as the only female. And I can't tell you how many times when I'd be teaching somebody, one of the brokers would say to me, well, what do you know, girly? Which would be the words that they would use, which is very condescending. But it was very easy for me to go, well, actually, here are some real applications and see if you can do that., so, you know, had all the bits that I needed to, to provide my credibility. And it was super interesting that I'm sharing now that I was up in front teaching people when I spent my childhood in a cupboard. But work was my safe place. Work was definitely my safe place because the marriage wasn't great, and it was a very difficult, difficult marriage. And, um, so that was my place that I could shine, and I knew that I could be the Joanne that I needed to be. Um, very interesting. Like, yeah, young person, didn't have a lot of confidence. First boyfriend, married. That, that was just the way you did it. And of course the expectation was that Joanne would go into banking and she would marry and have children, all those sort of things. But then I guess I realized there was obviously a little bit of a rebel sitting in behind, unconsciously in my brain, not realizing that Joanne actually wants something different. Yeah.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 10:44
So tell me, um, where at this point I'm hearing, you know, an amazing kind of initial journey into the workforce. So at this point, I'm hearing this amazing kind of initial journey into the workforce and you developing a sense of who you are and some amazing skills coming up against men in, in a, at a time when, you know, there were very specific gender roles. Uh, you were married at a young age. At what point did, I guess, stuff happen for you or begin to happen?
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 11:38
Well, it's, uh, it happened in 2001, September 2001. I was working at the business that I was talking about, the finance broker, and, uh, it was a tough day. There was a— I got told that there was a couple of policemen waiting for me at reception, and the receptionist looked pretty upset. And I'm thinking, oh, not really knowing what was on. They took me into a room and they said, um, are you the wife 'Of my husband's name?' And I said, 'Yes.' And he said, 'Well, he's been killed in an accident.' Uh, and I'm told that I made quite a bit of noise because the next question they asked was, 'Where's your daughter?' Uh, and so for context there, my husband had been unwell. He had been diagnosed with pneumonia. I had taken my daughter to daycare, and what they didn't know was because they'd seen a childcare child seat in the back of the car and the car had actually burst into flames. They weren't sure that she was in there. So what that— well, that was hard enough as it was, but for, you know, just to add to the level of distress and trauma that this caused was that within 72 hours I found out that he had been HIV positive. I needed to be tested, my daughter needed to be tested. We were tested as negative, but that was 4 days of absolute trauma, not realizing that this was the case. Family all around me, and then to be told by family members that I can't tell anybody because it would be really bad for the public to know that my husband had been HIV positive. So that, that was a secret that I kept for a very long time and was a very difficult secret because I actually kept it from my parents. To this day, my father passed away, he still doesn't know. My mum does now, uh, but that was one of the hardest secrets and caused a lot of trauma for me, uh, and caused a lot of trauma for Nicole, because my daughter, because having heard her dad had passed, and then within 24 hours she's been sat on as a 4-year-old to get a blood test done, and she is beside herself. And to this day, as a 25, 26-year-old, Needles cause her a lot of trauma. Goodness. Yeah, so that, that was interesting because there was conversations with people around me saying, Joanne, you actually look relieved. And when they said that to me, I went, you know what, I am. I'm very much relieved because this was not a good place for myself and Nicole to hang around, and it was our release. Yes, there was lots of counseling and all those sort of things to help us through the trauma of those first few weeks. I went back to work within about 3 weeks. I needed to get back to a routine, and so did Nicole. Nicole was 4. It was a very difficult time for her, but it was what saved us, and Nicole was what saved me to get through what I need to do. As a parent, you want to protect your child and make sure that they're not permanently impacted by what's going on in the family. And I actually stood my ground. There was a lot of pressure for me to move back to the Gold Coast where all the family was, and Joanne was finally finding her voice. And I said, no, I will stay in Brisbane and I will do what I need to do for my daughter. And so I started— sold the house and decided to build a house. So that's what we did.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 15:14
Does your daughter have any memories of that time, or is it a little bit too young for her?
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 15:21
Um, she has limited memories of her dad. She definitely has memories of the day. I actually had to get my girlfriend to go and pick up Nicole, and then I had to let her know. Um, we often speak about this, so this is something I, I didn't share with her.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 15:39
He knew—
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 15:39
she knew he passed away through a car accident, but I didn't share her the backstory to it. Stupidly, I let her know when she was in the middle of grade 12 exams as a 16-year-old. She asked, so I told her, and I said, this is going to be a tough one, kiddo. And yep, we needed to go and get some further counseling. But no, she, she, you know, I've since remarried and she has known her stepdad and calls him Dad far longer than she's known her real dad. She is fully aware of She now— because I went through this with her when she was a 16-year-old during her Grade 12 exams, it was really poor timing. But anyway, she's a very resilient young woman, thankfully, and she survived that. But that just helps her to remember it. And she has some lovely fronts. You know, her dad was a wonderful dad to her. And I know he would take her out every afternoon after school and take her for a coffee and go to the café. It was before cafés were all in. And he adored her, absolutely adored her. There was no doubt about that. So she does She does remember that. And every now and then, you know, she has a bit of a cry and we, you know, we talk about it, but she's come out of it rather well, thankfully.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 16:55
Yeah. Yeah. And has that been one of your sort of main focuses as her mum?
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 17:02
You know, it was the reason I started my first business and quit my job. Yeah, because, you know, straight up, straight after he passed, as I said, I went back to work. It's interesting what people do when death is around them. People don't know what to say, that, you know, and we don't actually need them to say anything. We just need to know that you can talk to them. And my boss, who was my mentor, he was my rock on that day. He just took over everything. He came and did amazing things. But bless his heart, we're in an office, and I had my own office. I was amongst everybody. But when I went back to work, he picked up my office and put it at the very back with the door on it and said, you just stay down there, Joanne, we won't bother you. I went, it's actually the worst thing you could have done because I then had too much time in my, in my head. Um, as I said, bless his heart, he did it with the best intentions, and you do what you, you think is best at the time, right? And he's still a good friend today. He literally works 5 minutes from where I live, so I still see him. He's an amazing man, um, and I have a great deal of respect for him because he was the business mentor that I needed when I first started my business and it was, he sold the business, the new owner didn't connect with me. I just didn't feel comfortable with it. It wasn't working for me. And so Joanne decided she would go and start a business. Thankfully, I did do the right things and set up my finance first to make sure I was covered for a period of time. But, you know, egotistically, I thought, well, I've been in the finance industry for 20 years. I'll go and start a business. I'll continue doing what I did in my job. And they'll just come, won't they?
Aveline Clark (Host) · 18:43
Yeah. So was the decision to start the business one that you had after the passing of your husband?
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 18:52
Yeah, it was. It was, uh, the, the biggest driver was because she started school within 6 months of him passing. And so because I was a single mom, there was daycare in the morning, daycare in the afternoon, and so she was having long days.. So I decided that a couple of years in, I went, yeah, no, I just can't keep doing this. She's had, she's had an entire schooling and daycare life of having longer days than I had. And I went, you know what, how about we go, go do this business thing? I'll have a lot more flexibility. She won't need to do daycare, you know, the money will be coming in and it'll all just work beautifully and swimmingly well. Well, we all know that, you know, for people who've been in business for a little while, you do aspire those things one day.. But when you start a business and you think that people are just gonna come knocking on your door and they don't, and then you just go, oh, geez. And it was my mentor who said to me, and he put the hand across the back of my head and said, Joanne, come on, you know better than this. This is not how you do it. I went, yeah, you're right, actually. So all the things that I was telling my clients, the business owners coming to me to get them commercial finance, business plan, you know, what are you doing, how are you getting sales, how's this happening? And I wasn't doing any of that, you know, it's just this ego just got in the way. And, you know, another lesson that I learned very quickly was you need to leave that ego at the door. Now be confident, but leave the ego at the door. And, you know, you've got to go and find your clients and talk to them. So thank goodness, within about 6 months, I got that knock across the back of my head to go, actually, you've gotta do something different in this business. And so, you know, I was doing education and I was very fortunate to get an opportunity come my way. I'd written some qualifications for some RTOs, training organizations, and they came to me and said, so we've had great success in the sale of these certificates and qualifications. We've decided to franchise. Do you know somebody in Queensland that might wanna take it and we'll give them 200 students? And I went, well, I don't know somebody, but I'll do it because it complements what I'm doing. So yeah, I put my hand up. So that started that journey of getting into, um, and all the, all the fun stuff that comes with that. So, um, and super interesting, just as a byline, that man is who I'm now in business with 20-odd years later. Full circle. Wow, full circle. Super interesting.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 21:18
Did you spend a lot of time grieving? Like, was that recycled first?
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 21:25
Yeah, because, because I was just focused on, on Nicole and making sure she had the best experience that she possibly could and that I was the best person I could be for her. But there was one person who really just, um, switched it all and saved both of us massively. Well, that is my current husband. So I met him one year, nearly to the day, anniversary of my first husband's death, not looking none of that sort of stuff. And we often joke about this in the family now. Nicole was 5, was outside playing with the dog. This man was doing some landscaping next door, dug some ditches, and Nicole fell in one. So he picked her up, dusted her off, had a bit of a chat. Nicole came in. I said, are you okay? Who's that man? That's Paul. Now married to him nearly, nearly, uh, 17 years later.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 22:16
That is her fault. How beautiful it is.
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 22:19
It's a— yeah, and it was very smart. First date was with both of us to the beach. Very smart man.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 22:26
Lovely.
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 22:27
He is my soulmate. He, he adores Nicole, and, uh, he has been supportive of all the baggage that I brought and helped me work through that, but then all the subsequent things that have happened from there. Yeah.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 22:40
Wow. That's beautiful.
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 22:42
That's what you need as a business. You need somebody who can support.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 22:46
Yeah.
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 22:46
Yeah.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 22:46
I was gonna ask about that. And, and I guess, I don't know if it's luck or, you know, life or whatever, providence, whatever you wanna call it, but he came at the right time for you.
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 22:56
He did. Yeah. And Nicole, and I did push back and I, and then I just went, you know what? Yeah, it was one of the, when said to the universe, all right, okay, this is just feels really right. It's good. It's gonna work well. It did cause a split in the family from my, my first husband's family, but that's okay. We've since reunited 18 years later, just in the last few months. So that's the things that you do. Um, but no, it, it was meant to be, and he was the rock that I needed, um, to help me get through what I needed to get through.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 23:28
Wow. So was it— it sounds kind of, I, I guess idyllic in a way that, you know, you were working in your own business, you met Paul, your soulmate, he became the father to your daughter, and you're still with him today. So do we, do we wrap the story up there with a bow, or is there, is there another little— I'm thinking there's something else in here, right?
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 23:53
Absolutely, absolutely. So let's, let's go. It's, it's more wrapped around the business, um, side of my life from there. So As I said, I'd started a business. I got the opportunity to be part of a franchise, helped him grow it. I was at a conference and the speaker said, we're looking to buy RTOs. Anybody who knows anybody, I'd love an introduction and I'll look after you when that happens. About 6 months later, the franchise sold it to that man. Didn't see a bean. Nothing, nothing. Compensation in any way or referral agreement. It was bought by a public company that exists today. So we'll keep that name quiet. But it, but it was an introduction of a division to their business that didn't complement what their core function was. They were in recruitment is all I will say. So, and they bought, they bought about 8 RTOs and for whatever reason they felt it was a good strategy. Then they suddenly realized actually it's not. So we're just gonna close them all. And so the agreements that we had in place were such that we had no comeback. So I built a business to about a $2 million turnover by that point. They owed me a bunch of money. We tried to negotiate a payout, something, got a very tiny piece and went back to zero. So that company shut us down. So I decided, right, well, I'll just launch my own RTO. I went and I did that. I went and bought one. I created, just created the brand, didn't put a lot of thought into it whatsoever, just made it up myself. Didn't have the money to go on pay anybody to do anything. And we don't— didn't have the tools that we've got today. Like, you can create something amazing with the tools we've got today. And that would have been in 2011, 2012 by that point. So, you know, internet wasn't as robust as it was— is today. So I did all the right things. I went and lodged my trademark application, was doing well, had bought an RTO, had funding, we're managing traineeships and apprenticeships, etc., in the business space.. And then in November of that year, 2012, I received a letter from a large global company to say, we noticed that you've lodged your application for trademark and it's in breach of ours. Bugger. So you have 30 days to change your brand. So I had the choice. Do I fight them? A large global motor vehicle company, interestingly. And that motor vehicle company had a division that was internal that had the same name as me, weirdly, but nobody knew about it and they provided training to the admin staff. So it was complete conflict and now being very passionate about brand and all those sort of things, I would have fought tooth and nail for my brand as well. So I get it. So I went off and I was in a position to go and pay an exorbitant amount of money to rebrand my company. And so that launched on February 2013 and that was an RTO that was called Entamio, E-N-T-A-M-I-O, and it was an acronym and we were never going to have a trademark trademark issue again. So that was, you know, the first, you know, two critical pieces, lost the business, trademark, had to rebrand. But with those nearly 20 years in the industry, it enabled me to create an overnight success in that new company. And I do overnight success and I built that from zero turnover to $30 million in 24 months.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 27:13
Wow.
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 27:13
So, you know, a lot of people look at that and go, oh wow, that was crazy. Absolutely, it was crazy. But as I said, had all these years of being in the industry, RTO space, all that sort of stuff, lots of learnings along the way that actually at that point I then was able to put a lot of systems, automation, high touch, all those sort of things. And we were delivering qualifications that were 7 times the price of the standard in the industry at the time. And what we created was an unlisted public company with all these different companies underneath, which was RTO, accounting, law, HR, IT, marketing, financial planning. Have I missed any? Can't remember. But they had all these. And so it was a professional services department store. It was a wonderful concept. So people could come in at any floor, lingerie, shoes, whatever, you know, and they could experience our various services. But the RTO was the biggest piece because it was the education piece., and it had access to government funding, uh, that I, I had secured by, um, partnering with some of my biggest competitors in the country. So I didn't have the funding, but I went and spoke to all my competitors and said, so you have funding, I have this product, it's different to yours, how about I give you a share of it if you give me access to your funding? And I got through, I had about 5 competitors that we were working with. So that enabled that, that enabled that machine to get going.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 28:40
Yeah.
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 28:41
And, you know, in a short space of time, it was like hanging onto your hat. You know, it was fast. I went from that, you know, when I launched the, the new company in Tamiyo, we had, we're at the launch, we, I think I had 5 staff and we did it at a restaurant, we did it all properly. And within 2 years I had 110 staff down the eastern seaboard. So it grew massively with all these divisions in here as well. And that's when wheels start falling off, when you have this growth that is not under control. And I often do speaking pieces about, you know, these overnight success are an illusion because you normally have this amount of experience behind you. But there are a number of key things that you need to make sure that you are prepared for. And one of them is about pace. We weren't prepared for that pace. It was massively it was fast. So I was signing agreements, I was buying companies, I was putting in all these layers to improve the customer experience. But there were decisions towards the end of it, there were decisions being made that I shouldn't have made. And that was a hard thing for me to accept, that whilst legislation changed and partners pulled the pin on me, which was the trigger to close that company, Ultimately, it was my responsibility. I was the owner, I was the CEO, and that was a very hard pill to swallow. And I think I know a lot of business owners, you know, I've got, I've got staff, so it's, you know, they didn't do it right, so they're at fault. No, no, no, no, no. Ultimately, as the owner, you are the one who makes the decision, and you are the one that signs the check, and you are the one that's responsible. As I said, that was a really hard pill to swallow. But what I found towards the end of those 2 years is that I'd lost my connection to purpose and why I did it. Started it with great ideas, very profitable, had an amazing company that we were— and I've shared with you before, Evelyn— rewarding them with some amazing expeditions, you could say. I took people to New Zealand, China, Hawaii, Alaska. You know, hired a plane to take us to Sydney for lunch. They were all things because it was always important to celebrate the wins. And that was done by putting a percentage of my income into a fund account. And I still do that today. So it's a percentage and it just sits there and it just gradually, but you have to spend it each year. You have to spend it. And so by the time we're doing $30 million, that's a rather large pile of money. But by the end of that, I'd become somehow just the pace of it. Some of the people that I was doing business with, I shouldn't have signed contracts to do business with. They were not aligned to values and purpose. And as we all know today, oh, I know very clearly, if they don't align, those relationships are really hard. They're difficult to manage.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 31:44
Can I ask at this point, you mentioned before, you've just said something about closing this business. So you've talked about the massive growth over those, was it 2 years to get to that $30 million? You've signed some partnership agreements with people that you're not aligned with. What was driving all of this? Was it ego? Was it, were you fueled by some kind of desire or, you know, what was it?
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 32:09
Yeah. So at this launch of this business, my ideal vision was to have a university with the full raft of qualifications. We'd have our own premises and we would be able to do the training on site. We would have cafes, all that. That was the vision. But because the pace was so fast and we needed to act quickly, like I remember Christmas Eve 2014, '15, legislation changed to the point that we knew we needed to have everything automated by the time we opened the doors again in January. So I just said to everybody, no Christmas, this is what we're doing. We'll set up the systems. And we were the first RTO in the country to go paperless on the 5th of January that next year, because that was the only way to get, you know, to take into account the change in legislation. And it was all around the fee help piece. And there was some really bad behaviour going on there. But we were achieving 85% completion rate compared to the standard of 3%. Industry-wide, which was, was just amazing that we managed to do that. But because of the pace, and then, you know, I remember waking up often at nighttime thinking, oh man, this is— this machine is going so far. I felt like the rat on the wheel or the guinea pig, to use a nicer creature. Um, and I felt that I couldn't step off it and that, you know what, I just have to make decisions that I think are right at the time. But on reflection now, I know they weren't the right decisions to make and I was terrified of having to step off it. Terrified because, A, impact on my family, losing house and those sort of things. But more importantly, what would it do to all these people? 110 staff, thousands of students, all my suppliers, you know, the complete ecosystem in your business. And I thought, I can't get off this thing. So I just have to persevere and hope that it survives.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 34:08
So what was the first inkling that something, you know, could be threatening the success of the business?
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 34:16
Well, it was a sudden thing. I got a phone call from one of my largest partners, RTO, in the space. They were owned by a UK company, and the government had been making noises about changing how this fee help loan scheme would work, putting some barriers in, putting in some restrictions of how it could be utilized. And my understanding is now that CEO of the global company rang the Australian CEO and said, get rid of all the partners. And so they had 28 RTOs, but they were a massive machine. They were like the Queen Mary. We were like a little orange speedboat, but we were generating great income for them. And us. And I got a phone call from the CEO and said, I need to see you, I'm in Brisbane, come in. And he just, you know, with no ceremony, he just said, we're canceling the contract with you and the money I owe you won't be paid. $2 million. And I just looked at him and, you know, thankfully I had somebody come in with me, senior manager, because we thought something's weird here, something's going on. Wasn't as accessible. We knew he'd been to England. I went, oh, there's some news coming. And thankfully I didn't burst into tears in front of him because that would have been pretty embarrassing. I did when I walked out, but I just took a breath and I said, so you do realize what you've done? He said, what do you mean? I said, so you've just closed our company, this machine that we've created in collaboration with you. He said, oh no, no, no, we'll work it out. You know, we'll come up with a something else. I said, well, I'm not really sure what it is. If you're canceling the contract and we can't access the funding and my payroll is $2 million, yeah, I think you've just crushed me. And, you know, it would've been, and it was in the timing. So this was the middle of November. So, you know, I went away, called an emergency board meeting because we're an unlisted public company by that point. We had an emergency meeting that night and I said, so we've got some choices. We can find a way to keep ourselves going because what I had put in place was that in February the next year we were then going to India and we already had contracts and we're going to deliver our content through the learning management system we had. It was, you know, it was gonna be about, you know, $35,000 as against $100 to India. But it was sheer volume. And they assessment. So that contract was in place, ready to go, but could not be brought forward. No way could it be brought forward. And I said, so if we could find a way to hold ourselves— but I said, what I am not prepared to do is to say let's try and hold ourselves but get close to Christmas, or between Christmas and New Year, and go, oh, guess what, team, we're actually going to have to close now. I said, that is the last thing that I can do to my team. So we decided that within a week of that decision from that supplier that we would liquidate the company. We would drive that liquidation ourselves. And what I then made the decision— what I realized was there'd been some really crappy behavior by some of the senior people. Accountants changing account details on our invoices to go to their bank account. Just some amazingly poor behavior, fraudulent behavior that to this day has not been addressed. So we didn't have time. And so it was at that point I said to my husband, well, you know what, we are the only director who has property. And I said to him, so I don't want to be sold up on. So I said, my only choice is that we sell it and get the best price we can and clear company debts as best we can. So that's what we did. We sold absolutely everything.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 38:02
Wow.
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 38:03
And, you know, I told the team a week later, called them all in, through a phone call. Didn't have Zoom in those days, but we did it by conference call to all the offices, and I told them what was happening. Of course, by that point I am pretty distraught, and I don't know why I said it, but I said to them, you know, it'd be really great if you could— some of you could give me some help. I need to actually— it's a bit naughty— but get the furniture out of the office because it was all brand new. I just, just furnished a brand new office, so I'm going to try and sell it. Before the, um, before the liquidators get their hand on it. And blow me down, pretty much 99% of them stayed for the week unpaid and cleared my office. That was when I thought, well, you just don't realize the impact you have on people. Just have no idea.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 39:52
Sorry, there was a lot of background noise and I just had to get all the windows shut.
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 39:56
Oh good, I'm sorry.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 39:58
Okay, could have just paused the recording, couldn't I? Um, okay, so what I'm hearing up to this point is a life of resilience building.
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 40:20
Mm-hmm. But I was pretty stubborn, right? Like, I, I know on reflection and counseling and lots of meditation and lots of writing and burning paper that, um, the universe was sending me a bunch of messages and Joanne was not paying attention. And the last one was that liquidation piece to go, all right, I'm really going to give you a great big shake and you have to pay attention to this. And I remember speaking because I had a coach all the way through this, right? Through it and passed it. She was very generous to give me her time for free afterwards. And, you know, I had the epiphany. I said I had to liquidate and bawling and blow me down. She was an investor in my business, my coach, just the level of horror that I felt for her. And I said to her, why didn't you tell me? And she said, it wasn't my place to tell you, Joanne. I was here to make sure that you got through it. I said, and I agree with her, I had to come to the realization because we've all— you can take a horse to water, you can't make them drink it. You can tell somebody they should stop smoking, but it has to be their decision.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 41:27
So what—
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 41:28
make that point.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 41:29
What was it that you needed to learn for yourself?
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 41:33
Well, to stick to, to, to know why I'm here, why I do what I do, um, create, you know, it's about remaining connected to purpose. Remaining connected to purpose. Look after me. Look, I have to be the priority. Whilst I started a business with a priority of my daughter, I, you know, I, I had all these, you know, I've got a business shut down on me, so I went, F you, I'm going to start a new one. And I actually, the name of the new business was, um, the other business had a 2 in it, I put a 3 in mine, being one better than you bastards.. And that was the business that got the trademark issue. And I went, seriously, Joanne? And then I created this new one. Yep, it did incredibly well, but the pace was such that I was just, I was like on a roller coaster hanging on for dear life. And yeah, I did, I did some amazing, we did some amazing things with automation. You know, I said we were the first RTO to go paperless. We had systems API left clockwise and anti-clockwise, did some amazing things, but I did not stay true to my purpose. And why it became— it, as it just became a roller coaster that I felt that I couldn't get off. So the universe just picked up the roller coaster and tipped me off. Literally, that's what it did. Um, so I'm incredibly thankful for that. The last 6 years ago, that's what it is today. And literally, it took me to June last year to close that company. So it took me 5 years of a lot of anxious nights talking to the ATO or nasty liquidators, all that sort of creditors, all those sort of things. But that's what needed to be done. And it was such a relief to have that done as of the 30th of June last year. And I would say to you, from that point on, it was then— it's off my shoulders. You know, the lovely things that come out of it. I've got a husband that's just still here, adores me, supports me, and is happy for me to go on this continual business journey because I do feel I'm not employable. Weirdly. And to hear lovely feedback from my daughter, just, you know, I was saying to her, like, during the middle of COVID she got stood down, she started a business. I said, I'm really proud of you, kiddo, that you see that there's an opportunity here for you. And she did very well. And she said, well, just look at the teacher that I've had, Mum. And I went, oh, still puts butterflies in my tummy. And she, you know, we have a lovely, wonderful relationship, and I'm incredibly blessed for that. And so is my family, super supportive. My 91-year-old mother still says to me every day, "You're still working so hard, Joanne." Yep. But I love it, Mum.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 44:17
I love it.
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 44:18
Yeah.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 44:20
Wow. What a journey. There's so many things I could ask you now about the staff and about that liquidation journey. And of course, being so close to Christmas, I can only imagine the pain and the fallout from that. But it was obviously, like you said, it had to happen. Uh, you got kicked off for the reason, um, that you figured out. Looking back on this journey, um, the last 21, 22 years, I guess, perhaps since your first husband passed, what's been What have you— what are the— what's the silver lining in this? What are your gold nuggets?
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 45:04
You know what, um, it is gratitude, absolute gratitude. Like, literally this morning I was doing some meditation and it was— and it asked me to reflect on when I had— on, on, you know, what was that— what was the word? Oh, I've lost it. Reflecting on what's happened in the past and wishing that it was today. And so, you know, the meditation the narrator of the meditation said to me, think about something that happened in the past that you wish was today. And I went, own my own home, have my home back. And then it said, so what can you take from that to be grateful for today? And I went, oh, who cares whether I own my own home or not? I live on the Gold Coast in a beautiful place. I'm healthy. I've never been healthier. I go to the gym every day. My husband is healthy. My daughter is thriving. My mom at 91 is still thriving. And I have been given and blessed with the opportunity to create a new business that I launched last month. What more could I, could I want? Right. And, and, you know, what I know is when I'm connected to my how, my, my purpose and my why, not the how, my purpose and my why, and that I'm having conversations with people that give me absolute joy. And I do that every day now. I know that will come. I just know it will. And I'm really, I'm really grateful for that. Wow.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 46:30
Yeah, I reckon I, well, I'm sure that people listening to this have kind of, their heads have spun a few times from what you've shared.
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 46:39
There is a book in them that's being written about it. One day we'll get it done.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 46:44
You are inspiring, Joanne, uh, that That is for sure. Um, I have a last question for you, and that is, if someone's listening to this who is going through anything that you've been through, that you've shared with us today, what piece of advice could you give them?
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 47:05
I think that the first thing is— I, um, I might not have mentioned this, but when the company liquidated, I know I spent 5 minutes on the floor in a fetal position. And by that time, Paul had retired, and so there was no other income coming in. And it probably lasted about 5 minutes, so I gave myself that grace. Um, wasn't a happy place. But you know what, and again, back to the story when I was 18, if I want something to change, it has to start with me. So when you're going through these things, I want, you know, people need to take a breath, sit back, and go 'What is the one thing I can do today?' What— and that can often be— it's something that I still use today.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 47:47
What is—
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 47:48
you know, the list of to-dos are ridiculous. Like, we've all got them, right? You know, I'm not unusual and by any means. And, you know, the things that I've been through is not unusual. You know, we all have trauma, and it doesn't matter the size of it or the zeros on it or any of that sort of stuff. It's the impact it has on you as a person. And how you choose to react to it. So you know what, there is always a silver lining in all— in so much of this. Like, the lovely thing is, one of my, my chief operating officer, I now work with her again in a new business, and she is a lifelong friend. The fella that I started the business in at the RTO, he is now in the— he owns the Deserve Global Business School, and I'm in business with him again. So know that it will be okay. Because I know when I— Nicole has suffered from anxiety and would internalize things. We'd get through that piece, and I'd always say, was it as bad as you thought? Yeah, no. I said, well, it never is because you internalize it. So sit back with self, go back to really think about why do you do what you do and what is the impact you're looking to build? But absolutely circle yourself with the right people. I have distanced myself deliberately from people, and they include family, that don't serve me. So if those two things— go back to you, dig deep, right? Look, write it down, burn that damn letter. Write it down, burn it. Go back to you, and then put yourself— surround yourself with the right people who can take you and build you and grow you, that you can grow with them.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 49:30
Perfect. What great, great advice. Yeah, love that. Thank you so much, Joanne. It has been a complicated story.
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 49:38
Sorry.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 49:39
Yeah, oh, don't apologize. Like you said, we've all got stories, and that, that's what this is about.
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 49:44
Be brave enough to share it, right? I'm going to throw a quick tip through a bonus one. I've only just started talking about this story, my story, from July last year, so literally just a year. And it was a really hard deal for me on that first day. There was tears. I was in front of 200 people. Be prepared to tell your story. Don't think it's not important. Don't think it's not big enough because it's what it's done and how you've come out the other side. Be prepared to tell your story. Ah, thank you. They do business with people. They want to know, oh, you feel how I feel. Oh, you know, there's a connection there. I'm not going to find somebody with the exact same story. We're going to find people who have had trauma and challenge in their life.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 50:29
Yeah, yeah, touche. Thanks. Thank you so much, Joanne. It has been an honor and a privilege.
Joanne Brooks (Guest) · 50:37
Yeah, and thank you for being the first gal on this, um, on this, this process.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 50:43
Exactly, it is amazing. Thank you so much. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Kintsugi Heroes. Please like and share the show to your friends so we can get this out to even more people. If you have a story you'd like to share with us, please reach out using the contact details below. Join us next week for our next hero's story. Until then, keep being you, and remember that we are all heroes in our own unique way.
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