Christian Nduwimana · 52 min
After surviving civil war, political persecution, and three years in a Ugandan refugee camp, Christian Nduwimana arrived in Australia with nothing but his life, and rebuilt himself into a nursing student with his sights set on medicine.
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Christian Nduwimana was 21 when he left Burundi with nothing but his life. He had watched extrajudicial killings unfold at his university, seen fellow students killed, and made the choice to speak up against the regime's violence instead of staying silent. When the government's grip tightened, he had no choice but to run. He spent three years in a refugee camp in Uganda, watching others refuse to give up despite impossible odds. That persistence, the sight of mothers with babies surviving on almost nothing, the example of doctors without borders choosing to serve, kept him moving forward.
Christian arrived in Brisbane in 2016 grieving his father's death, unable to speak English, and unsure what came next. But he saw a bus advertisement featuring Dr. Desh Palipana, a quadriplegic doctor in medical scrubs, and something shifted. That same week, he enrolled in nursing. Learning English meant repetition, shame he refused to accept, and a dictionary so worn the pages fell apart. He used Google Translate in lectures, failed at first, then stopped being embarrassed and started speaking until people understood. Within months of finishing his nursing placement, he applied to study biomedical sciences. His dream of becoming a doctor, the one that drew him toward service before violence forced him to flee, was still alive.
Today, Christian speaks about Ubuntu, the African principle that you exist because others exist, and what it means to listen to your inner voice when the world tells you it is impossible. He carries both grief and clarity: that nothing matters more than breath, and that being a refugee points not to failure but to the leaders who created the need to flee.
“You are because I am. So without you, I cannot exist.”
“nothing at that time was more precious than my own life than my own breath”
“the best gift a human being can give himself and others is to refuse to give up to keep that hope”
The hero, today
Christian chose to speak up against extrajudicial killings in Burundi despite the personal cost, because he could not remain indifferent when fellow human beings were suffering and dying. Nothing was more precious than his own life and breath at the moment he left Burundi, which taught him that if you can still breathe, you have the most precious thing and should protect it. After seeing Dr. Desh Palipana's advertisement on a bus showing a quadriplegic doctor in medical scrubs, Christian decided that week to enroll in nursing, moving from despair about his language barrier to taking the first concrete step. Christian learned English by accepting mistakes, refusing to be embarrassed, and speaking repeatedly until he could be understood, using math as proof that some things don't require language fluency. Christian believes the Ubuntu principle from his culture, where you are because I am and we depend on one another, is what Australian communities need now to address the loneliness and indifference he sees reflected in mental health data. What Christian means by listening to your inner voice is recognizing what your body and deeper self are trying to communicate when you feel uncomfortable or depressed, and having the work ethic to follow through on what you know you should be doing.
Yes. Christian Nduwimana is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Christian chose to speak up against extrajudicial killings in Burundi despite the personal cost, because he could not remain indifferent when fellow human beings were suffering and dying.
Nothing was more precious than his own life and breath at the moment he left Burundi, which taught him that if you can still breathe, you have the most precious thing and should protect it.
After seeing Dr. Desh Palipana's advertisement on a bus showing a quadriplegic doctor in medical scrubs, Christian decided that week to enroll in nursing, moving from despair about his language barrier to taking the first concrete step.
[Music] Hello and welcome to the podcast from there to here where we dive into conversations with people who know what it takes to rebuild a home away from home. I'm your host Emma Bellami and today my guest is Christian and Mana. Christian journey began in Bundi where he faced civil war, political persecution and the impossible decision to leave everything behind. In this episode, he takes us from the uncertainty of refugee camps to the challenges and hopes of rebuilding a life in Australia. He opens up about the courage it takes to speak against injustice, the resilience one can find in their darkest times, and the power of service to others. Get ready for a powerful conversation about survival, transformation, and what it means to start over as a refugee. [Music] Christian and Dubana, I'm so glad to finally have you on the podcast from there to here. Oh, hi Emma. I'm so happy to be here and thank you so much for having me on your podcast. Well, I'm very very glad. So, to give the audience a bit more context about your story, you are originally from Bundi and escaped the civil war over there when you were only 21. You arrived to Australia as a refugee after spending three years of your life in a refugee camp in Uganda. I obviously have a lot of questions about your journey, but why don't you start by sharing with us what motivated you to share your story with us today? You know, what what is it that you want people to take away from it? I I think my motivation to share my story today I think roots from the fact that I've been inspired and motivated by other people's inspiring stories and I think the the least I can do is to share my personal experience for someone who is maybe still on the same journey I took few years ago. I would say for anyone in a situation where they think, "Oh my god, what can I do?" It's really just like uh if there's something I want people to take away from this um conversation is hope, just to be hopeful. Yeah. And to have that ability, I think u to make an extra step. And that's what I believe really defines people. And I'm going to start with this saying. I forgot the person who said this but it was like don't be afraid of hardship because sometimes they give you the ability to endure and endurance is not the ability to you know bear hardship but also to turn into glory. Today I think I just want to share a message of hope especially for those who are doing tough. Yeah, it's so hard to think about it when you are leaving the hardship, but then the hardship can be a catalyst for growth and once you look at it retrospectively, you realize that it actually brought so much to your life. I'd like to approach your story in a chronological way, starting by your life in Bundi before you had to flee. there was a conflict between the HOU and Tootszie communities. So, how did that conflict impacted you personally or you know your day-to-day life over there? Uh yeah, that's a very good question. Um so I was born in Bundi for those who don't know unfortunately Bundi now is the world's poorest countries and that's really uh sad because Burundi has I think since the end of colonization Bundi has never experienced peace so there were just like moments of peaceful transition between powers but Burundi has never experienced peace and I think the story of Hutu and Tutu they're more of like a political ical like issues because at the community level like where I was born for example I saw a sense of strong community cohesion just you know embracing the diversity and just people living together uh knowing that your neighbor you may need him at any given moment I've shared this before I grew up in a community where there's a state of interdependence I think many people now are quite familiar with this concept called Ubuntu. You are because I am. So without you, I cannot exist. It's just trying to see and to mirror my own existence through my neighbor. You are a precious being to protect. Hming you would indirectly harm me. But that may not make sense because when I was in Burundi, thousands of people were decimated for having long noses. For example, for being a tuty or being a ho. There were like political motivation. People were supposed to encourage community cohesion to embrace one another. I think they were just doing everything they can or they could to soul uh division. You may be familiar with the theory divide in order to reign. That's what happened at leadership level. Bundi was failed by those people in power who were supposed to protect it because they were just setting community members against each other and that has resulted in you know mourning uh human suffering with very very significant impact on economic growth and the the structure of our society and that really I think to give you a context of the huten toti it started from the pre-colonial era bundi We when you listen to you know our elders in our communities they'll tell you that those ethanes were always there but they were based on activities. So totes in Burundi they were just like shepherds they had cows and hutus were just doing labor like you know farming and stuff like that. It was based on uh activities and social class. Yeah it's not well known but there is another ethnicity ethnic in Bundi called Batwa. Oh, so those are people who are more interested in making uh you know pots using clay and back then I think everyone was so happy they had one king. There was no king for Batwa. There was no king for Bahutu or Batuti. They served one king and it was one of the best and the most structured societies. So when colonization started under Belgium colonization it was very hard to penetrate to colonize those well structured societies. So they started really you know dividing those people. They started saying okay tootsies were very smart people. They were more involved in leadership activities but it was not true. It was not true. They just like other ways of like you know dividing you know the terrain to penetrate those very well organized societies. So when that colonization ended then I think they were just like a struggle for power that's what I can say. So Hutus started really like trying to exterminate but Tuttis they had they were in power so they were trying to fight for their survival in Bundi was the same in Rwanda. I should mention that tootsies in those countries are minorities and some of them have all the power like talking about military. I think Hutus started trying to overthrow those um minority governments and that's when a lot of killing started because tootsis were saying okay if we leave power what happened in Rwanda it's going to happen in Burundi you have like both sides giving different stories and that was at political level at the community level some people were buying for that were falling for that trap and they they started killing each other for example Example, you hear stories of like thousands and thousands of tootsies or hutus who were massacred or you had you know politicians calling the followers to exterminate this particular ethnicity. Then from 2005 I think some rebel groups or armed groups which were composed of mainly hoous accepted to put their weapons down and started political parties. I was very young at that time but everyone was so happy you know to see that okay after this fighting is going to stop but when Bundian started seeing that the problem is not about ethnic conflict it's about political leaders who really want to stay on power by sewing those divisions I think Bundian started saying hm the problem is not about hoous and tootsies it's about political leaders wanting to stay power and they can only do that by sewing division and I remember there's there are reports of thousands of people were fighting for so-called democracy they were being killed by their fellow fighters who are now on power and those killings were just politically motivated until I think 2010 the government that came to power in 2005 it became a killing machine, a a killing machine. You could see, I think, on the news and everywhere you could see, oh, breaking news. Mr. X is taken by these people. And they can even name them. Name them. Name those names. And the next 2 three hours they found a dead body here, a head in a toilet or somewhere. Like those are like stories in Bundian people. what they did, they gave nicknames to those leaders. I don't know if I can translate them, but they're just nicknames given I think based on just how many and how they killing Star Wars. And I can give you even like the prime minister. I think it's the it's is equivalent to the prime minister the title, but it should be like in French. He has a nickname called Nakugalika, which means I'll coldly kill you. Like that's that's what the nickname translates for. And if you read reports by Amnesty International, Human Right Watch, they'll tell you how many people were killed and how that name was cited. But he's now the prime minister in Bundi. There are many names I can give you. Just it doesn't make any sense. That's the context I I grew up in. And we had to be careful because when I was growing up there were wars and the war civil wars like everywhere. Everyone in in that country was subject to mistreatment. Even I think to grow up couldn't just like become an adult. It was a mere chance cuz there were like chances of being detonated by landmines or being kidnapped by armed forces. say until today until today Bundi has suffered significantly from lack of leadership even in national criminal court has cases against those people and they in power. Wow. So you became a target of the Bhunian regime, right? So why is that? In a country run by criminal leaders and I'm saying this now because I can tell you I was a student with zero interest in politics. Zero interest. You say why would an ordinary citizen like me become a target? It was a choice. So I think it was a personal choice. And sometimes I say, did I put myself in this because I had the right to shut up and ignore everything and maybe just like pretend that everything's okay. But being a student, I see cases of extrajudicial killings, dead bodies of your classmates on the street because there is a government, there is a president who is on power whose mission should be to protect the lives of civilians. But he made a decision I think it was in 2015 to stay on power while the opposition was saying the constitution says that you shouldn't serve three times in office and that's why a civil unrest that started in 2015 many people were on the streets but I think it wasn't just a constitution most bundians I think they haven't read the constitution they are not familiar with this constitution I think it was the suffering it was the suffering they just like you know living a life, a hopeless life, desperate life. Even being a student and trying to serve your community and you see a government heavily invested in exporting arms, police being deployed to target civilians for the sake of keeping power in one of the poorest countries. You go to our hospitals, doctors without any equipment, but you see military tanks and these machine guns circulating on the streets and we know those weapons, they are there to target Bundian because there was no country that was threatening to invade Burundi. Those weapons were being used on Bundian people. I think that's when people got so angry and I think I'm going to do something that I haven't done before and name one of the victim. I think many people recognize him and especially those who are listening from Burundi. His name was Elmes Noing. A very young man, a very brilliant medical student who was killed. People know who took him and he was killed. One of the best mind the most brilliant young man brutally massacred. I I saw and witnessed like extrajudicial killings. Even doctors being forced to sign death certificate so that patient can be executed. So those are things that try to document and that I couldn't witness and just shut up. You cannot be indifferent when another human being is suffering. And I think what is so bad today is that we are becoming indifferent to suffering and we are normalizing suffering. We also forget that those who are being massacred, those who are being killed, those who are being unjustly thrown into jails or detention houses or being kidnapped, they are fellow human beings. I think sometimes we forget that you know we are human beings and that should be what unites us that yeah really that's I I have so much to talk about but that's how it became a target and it was really refusing refusing to remain indifferent to remain silent in the face of persecution massacres imagine having a dream to become a doctor and doing everything starting to become a doctor and you see a fellow human being killing thousands of people. Where would you get that motivation from? Say wearing a stethoscope to save one lives when there is a Martian gun that can kill thousands in no time. Back then I think I refuse to shut up because I know that people were not even shut up. They didn't say anything. I think this reminds me of the German I think it was a German pastor said that you know when they came for the Jews I didn't speak up and when they came for this group I didn't speak up and then when they came for me nobody was there to speak for me anyway just speak up so that's why I think I became the target and I paid a heavy price but I think it was worth it on the price you paid you had to leave your country at 21 without anyone in your family. I even read that you left without a backpack like you just took off yourself on your own. Do you remember that day where you left everything behind? Thank you for asking me that question. Uh this reminds me of a poem I think called home by Wan Shia. He's a Somali British poet. He said that you never leave home until home has become like a shark and is about to swallow you. And really leaving Bundi and leaving my parents, siblings, leaving the place where I grew up and I was um you know attached to leaving my father and whom I will never see again. Actually, I think shaking hands was I didn't know that it was the last time I was going to shake um hand with him. Leaving everything, all those dreams, everything you worked for for the last 20, 21 years, you said without even a backpack, like nothing, not even like a back like what about your identity? Even a simple document that can say this is who I am. So basically at the age of 21 you are becoming a nobody. But this is when I think I become life should be precious to anybody because all those things I was able to leave them behind because nothing at that time was more precious than my own life than my own breath. And that's why even like my parents to push me out, my father to decide like you have to go and the way I escaped and how many you know assassination attempts I escaped. My take or message was there's nothing more precious than life. And this is what I can tell to everyone who's suffering whether those people in you know war torn countries everywhere. Yeah, I think there's nothing more precious than life. If you can still breathe, if you have breath, I think you still have the most precious thing and really protect it. Stick to it like really really hold on to it. So leaving Burundi, I think for me it was a testimony that breathing having you know being alive no matter what. Did you feel in the moment this sense of um I think gratitude is the wrong word but yeah kind of gratitude of being alive or were you somehow overwhelmed by grief as well and and and pain like do you remember how you felt when when you left like were you able to be wise in the moment or I know I wouldn't have been able to be wise in the moment I think I would have been devastated personally Personally, I think there is no worse than when you step into the unknown when you don't even know what two seconds of your life hope for you and you have that fear and it just is a survival I think way you know that okay you have to do this and when you are still in the process of escaping and you know that any mistake when you get caught unnoticed you don't fear death. You fear what it takes for you to die. You fear the process of dying because you know when you get caught by those people. One of the most horrible things um that have never thought that a human being can do this. There's a guy he used to take young men and being motivated by the ethnic hate taking a container. He was an officer in the Brunian army. Well not documented cases where he took dozens of not dozens even hundreds of young men he put them in a container and he asked his soldiers to heat up to start fire on that container and with human beings inside. And then what he did he released them so they can go back for other people to see what he can do. There is also a side of relief when you make it to the other side. People don't realize that being a refugee is a journey is a journey of despair and then hope is a journey. I think it's like a roller coaster of emotion but is that relief when you escape your own country. And what is sad is when I think about my fellow Bundians. My fellow Bundians could not let me live with them in my own country. In my own country and even some of them wanting me to die, it's quite hard to understand. I think that has given me an ability to to have a thick skin, not to be, you know, sensitive to anything. For example, when you are a refugee, people will see you as useless. People call you names. People will call you this and that. But when you know that you left your country because the person whom you share the same culture, language, values, even like norms could let you live in your own place in your in your own house. It's quite hard to imagine that my life was about to be terminated by not a stranger, not a an invading country that people were greedy enough to even see threat in an ordinary student. Yeah. Who were just like it's somehow like hard to conceive that yeah that really helped me you know survive my journey. I wonder whether you were able to have that resilience when you were in the refugee camp because you stayed there for 3 years which I think is a very long time but I don't know whether that's considered a long time comparatively to other people who were in this refugee camp perhaps comparatively it's not a long time but I'm sure that when you are the person leaving those three years from 21 to 24 that's also very important. important years you know uh it must have felt like an eternity so I wonder whether you were able to cope with that waiting period 3 years is very difficult to imagine what helped me cope uh when I was in Bundi actually I remember exactly so my father was with these doctors you know doctors without borders they were from France it was the first time I actually tasted like a chocolate and said they gave me chocolate and I was like Okay. And then I think uh when I asked why were they so suffering because you could see they were just like very very um exhausted and not having great times. And then when I asked why did they come? Why did they choose to come to Burundi to serve in a country where brothers are kinned brothers? And one of them said that humanity is a family. people are doing bad things but if you still see yourself as a human being you have to do something that motivated me to serve I think there's no better job than to serve and even from a Christian perspective I think Jesus said his disciples were fighting oh who's going to become the master say let the great among you be the servant like serve one another and I think a service-driven life is what I have always aspired to and I had this project in my mind, you know, just be there inside the pool because there are so many great things I could do and I could see myself doing it. But then in in a refugee camp, I can tell you I saw people refusing to die. I saw what we call human resilience. If what medicine tells us is correct, the data, the scientific data we have about disease and disease processes, I asked myself how do these people survive 20 years in refugee camps, it's quite hard to understand. And then I think we started by saying why sharing our stories, we share our stories for others who are still on that journey. And I think this is where I say I've been helped by looking and observing how moms with babies in refugee camps refused to die and did everything they could without resources, nothing. And I was like, wow. I start seeing myself there's a lot I can do. I I think I just say everywhere you go, no matter how bad you think your life is, you are better than someone. And maybe the best gift you can give yourself is just refusing to succumb to suffering or anything. Just keep that hope. And I think the best gift a human being can give himself and others is to refuse to give up to keep that hope. And I'm saying this from personal experience. Um Dr. Dh you you know this guy. Yeah. He's amazing. By refusing to give up his medical studies, he became my personal inspiration and others. I share his stories with young people in refugee camps. Desha by refusing to give up. It was good for him but also for humanity. He gave himself that gift but also at the same time he was serving his community, his country and the globe. And that's why I keep saying this. If there is a message that I have for those people in hospitals, in prison, like everywhere like who are doing tough, please keep that hope. Give yourself that hope. I've been in a place myself where I was like, you know, being hopeful was almost like a daydream. But in making that extra step, it may be even taking that drug that you know that your doctor has prescribed for you. In just that that small step a thousand miles starts with a single step in every situation. It may be like a disease process. It may be like you you may have been given a diagnosis. It may be losing your job or anything. Just that extra step is the best gift you can give yourself. At the same time is the best gift you can give to others because when you overcome a hardship you inspire. And that's why I think people like DH in this country, I know you said we're going to approach this podcast in a chronological order. I don't want to jump ahead of myself, but looking and observing and learning from others. I learned how to say no, there is always something I can do. And I'm glad that my hope was revived and my journey did not crash my dream. I think it's like three ideas in what you said. There is the sense that you can be useful. So usefulness, the hope that you need to preserve and not to give up and take one step at the time. And these are perhaps, you know, interconnected, but I think they're all reinforcing the resilience you can have. If you can have those three things, I think you can go through a lot and, you know, survive and cope with terrible things. Yeah, I really like what you've said. Obviously, when you were in this refugee camp, at some point you made the request to be a refugee and you were granted a humanitarian visa to come to Australia. and you arrived here, do you remember what you felt or what you thought when you arrived in this country and you finally left that refugee camp? For me, I think I I have to say this, it could have been one of the best experience ever. But I think I was the Vietnam. I was in a state of mourning following the sudden death of my father. It's something that I have never been able to digest. So my father was um you know not only um inspiring figure, a fatherly figure is someone I still miss. And I received that call to come to Australia I think in the toughest when I was leaving I think the hardest moments in my life just still denying and refusing to accept that my father was no longer. Anyway, I came to Australia. But you know, sometimes that feeling of relief overcame my morning states and I was happy. It's very happy on the airplane. I was like finally just seeing Brisbane and seeing like the ocean and everything as the the airplane was landing. I was like better days and I'm like at least everything was so shiny. It was wow. I was like am I going to call this home? M I think for a moment made me forget and just was so beautiful was so beautiful nice city clean and then I came and I couldn't speak the language and I went back back home I was like no being 24 and just you had this feeling it was the most depressing moment it's like what am I going to do how am I going to survive in this country I don't speak the language and I always like wanted to study and pursue my education ation and able to get into medicine cuz that has always been my dream to serve people to serve the unprivileged and then I started really missing my mom missing my siblings missing my home I think I was homesick but sometime and I was fighting these voices in my mind you can't do it and people were just like you know showing us around and helping us ask me how old are you I was like two weeks two months because I was counting the days I've been Australia because like I couldn't speak even walking like I couldn't take myself somewhere because how you don't speak the language. It's like what if I get lost? Yeah. So you become afraid of everything. It there is something about not speaking the language of the country where you decide to live that is awful because you can't express your personality. you feel that all the conversations you have are dumb or you know like so much more superficial than what you would actually want you know and and I think I'm putting this in the context of you having been in a refugee camp you probably want to rebuild your life and you don't speak the language and it's so incredibly frustrating particularly for someone who was on his way to become a doctor and then all of a sudden you are so far away from that dream. I assume that you had a period of despair or like grief about that person that you thought you would become. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a feeling that I don't know if many people feel this way when you miss yourself, your former self. I think it's very very tough and this is why we share our stories. I'll come back to Desh, Dr. Dh. For those who don't know, it's Desh Palipana. Yeah. He's a doctor at the Gold Coast, a need or emergency department like Dr. one of the busiest hospitals. A brilliant man and I think one of the most inspiring persons you will ever ever ever meet. And then I was like really wandering around, right? And I saw this ad. I think also credit to Griffith University. I think they run this ad. And I hate ads. I normally hate ads, right? But he was on this bus and say who said a quadriplegic cannot practice medicine with a picture of DH uh in those like medical scrubs with a stethoscope in a wheelchair and I went home. I I kept seeing that picture in my mind until I get like I got home and I Googled him and the first thing came was um a car crash. I was like no. and reading his stories I can tell you it was on Friday next Monday I don't know I got this feeling of I can do it from me fighting my voices my mind this and that I was I can do it I don't care if I speak the language or not I can do it next Monday I was at TA I think there's a saying by uh I think it's Clement who said that you know aim for the moon even if you miss it you you may hit the star right and I went to T I was like okay I can start people as a nurse and I couldn't speak the language I was using Google translation memorizing those like lines translating from French to uh English and later gave me an exam to see if I can do it the English part oh Google translation I almost got full marks numerical I love maths maths does not have a language French or English is okay. It's the same. Yeah, I did those. Yeah. And they gave me a place. I think that's when I said, "Wow, they gave me a place. Another reason to be awful." I bought a dictionary. I still have it. It is the oldest of all the papers have like Yeah. come apart like there's no but that dictionary I read it like I believe it's not from A to Z. Google translation. I stopped speaking any other language that English, speaking to strangers, asking questions. Yeah. Many of them saying, "Oh, sorry, we can't hear you." Being frustrated, returning back, speaking to strangers, stopping people, just asking this like everywhere. And then I was doing my I think my first trimester at TA I was using like Google translation and some lecturers could call me in Christian what did you try to write here because it was pure French right they were saying like you really need to you know work on your speaking like you need to speak as a nurse I became confident I wasn't afraid I didn't care if I speak something correctly or not and it was just like I'm opening up and speaking and speaking and speaking until I could make myself understood food. Yeah. And I was like, "Wow, I can do it." It's the perseverance, the repetition of, you know, and being okay with making mistake and not having it perfect and be okay with that. But it's true that in the first phase, I remember I don't know if you had that period, but I was ashamed of speaking because you know when you have a person say I don't understand you one time, two times, you feel stupid and you get embarrassed at yourself. And I think that once you stop being embarrassed and you laugh a bit at yourself, your language imperfections become a bit more irrelevant. You you were absolutely right because I remember just telling myself, let people laugh at you. When I became more confident, I was even asking questions in a classroom and I could see really my classmate trying to understand what I said. But what was helping me, I was telling myself, hey, if you were to speak your mother tongue, do you think they can understand you? No, you're doing a great job. I was encouraging myself and motivating myself, if you'll speak French, how many people can hear you say, you're doing a great job. And then until I started nursing, I was sent to placement. And at that end, I think after 2 months, wow, I was very sharp. able to communicate, able to speak, able to write, able to not rely on Google translation to try to make myself understood to make a point. Even participating in arguments and nursing they teach you the basics and for me I was going like take an extra step trying to go deeper. Why are we giving this medication? What is the mode of action? What is the mechanism? Right. Yeah. You were thinking like a doctor and guess what? I couldn't wait. Straight away went to UKQ. Now I'm not done yet. And I was like, okay, how can I get into medicine? And the next thing I found myself doing was biomedical sciences and read it again because the purpose of this podcast is to inspire. I know there are young men there who are desperate and who think okay I don't speak this language. But do you have a point to make? Just go listen to your inner voice. It is telling you what you should be doing. I don't care how long it takes you. Just make that one step. Start today. Why? Why? Because I know you can start today. It feels like it may feel like I'm you know crazy but do it anyway. I think the other thing I've learned is dreams are real. We have limited time as human beings. We are motor right? We are mortal beings. We die. We We are born and we have to die anyway, right? Who cares then? You have nothing to lose. Just go there and be you. Listen to your inner voice and keep going. Just keep going. Yeah. It's the golden thread uh for you as well, you know, the the your compass in a way. Do you think you will somehow become a doctor again in Australia? Is it on your list? What are your plans? Do you do you still have further dreams or My dream has always been to serve people and medicine is still the way I think the best way to serve people. I don't know if I've answered your question. Yes, you have. It is a project that will obviously take time. The education in Australia is very expensive as well. So it can take an enormous amount of time to be able to reconstruct yourself professionally here because of it. I don't know whether in Bundi education was free but I know in France it was. So for me transitioning to a country where you have to pay so much money to study is just so painful. I understand the logic behind it, but it's just uh yeah, it's harder to rebuild yourself when when you are an immigrant and even more so a refugee, I assume. Yeah. Um back home, we used to have one of the best education systems. I think it started degrading and degrading and degrading and I think now most Bundian young people they can tell you they don't see value in education which is very sad because when you have a corrupt regime it corrupts everything just collapses and most young people you speak to they want to leave that country because it's becoming an open air like prison it's a hopeless place now for young people it used to be well well organized that country even during the civil war things were better back then that they are today that's why sad university it was free university was free but now few people can afford that to go it is still like kind of free but who can afford it where do you live for example here in Australia if you are to say let's cut university fees and make rent unaffordable like make for example for a rent like 10,000 a week. Where will you get students? Where would will students live? So that's the situation. You know, now that we are back to talk a bit about Bundi, I wonder whether there is one aspect of your culture that you wish people knew about or that you wish people could embrace more fully. I really really want Australian people especially politicians to learn from those corrupt leaders in Burundi and try to avoid whatever they are doing. And also I really want to encourage Austrian people at community level. If there's something I wish they could learn from most African communities back home is the sense of community belonging having a like um you know cohesive communities is really having that concept of Ubuntu. It has been commonly used here and there but do people really understand what it means seeing another human being as someone you know valuable and this is very important now because when you look at mental health data many people are so lonely we have now this technology somehow replacing human to human interaction I can tell you like you mental health is becoming a problem goodness me you know in Africa Many community do not have internet. You go there and they find kids. They're kicking plastic made soccer balls, right? Laughing, doing these activities. I don't know if they understand how important it is, but go out, connect with people. We are losing one of the most important thing, human to human interaction. It's sad. Go in the community, play soccer together. You have the resources. We have like everything I think to build cohesive communities. We should really really care about one another and not have like a feeling of indifference. There is difference. We tend to become a bit numb to the suffering of others because we are bombarded with images that are terrible and I think at some point you need to you know disconnect. You're right. You are absolutely right. We are consuming these unhealthy things from social media from a very young age. For example, there are even like video games and some of the video games. They're encouraging violence like shooting on these things. In the United States, there are even reports of kids, you know, taking guns and shooting people. So, we nature these unhealthy things and sometimes we expect kids to behave in a normal way. We said reminded me of another aspect of our culture back home. respect for our elders like really having respect in our communities and I think this is also something that have seen lacking and is getting away in Africa there is a saying like it takes a village to raise kids yeah I go to organizations in Australia they use the same thing but really back home I couldn't do anything I want because my parents are not there yet my neighbor could just come and just ask me why doing that a stranger can approach me and say why are you doing that? That's what it means. That's the meaning of it takes a village. We have this culture here in these countries of being sufficient, being independent. No, we're not depend like there's no such a thing as independence. Another I'll give you an example. When you seek where do you go? Do you have a doctor in your home? Do you have like countries? That's those are things that should remind you that we depend on one another. When a surgeon gets sick, does he operate on himself or he gets another surgeon? See, or that's when you know that's why we are all interdependent. That's why we should try to value and build strong communities. And to build a strong community is not Emma's job or my job. It is everyone's job. and to keep a community safe and to make it a worthy place for everyone is to really be aware of that interdependent state. Yeah. So, give me a final word of wisdom that you would like to give to other immigrants and refugees who are struggling to rebuild their lives in another country. Listen to your inner voice. for you to be in Australia or somewhere else. It is I think a testimony of how resilient and how able you are. So never limit yourself and never stop trying. It may be hard and you may be like in a situation when you feel like you know dreaming or your dreams and everything feels like a daydream that you cannot realize. I beg you make that one step at a time like you'll be surprised how much you can achieve really by taking that extra step. Now I think when you said inner voice it's having faith in your abilities listening to your own voice as a know sometimes almost the best version of you that is still there or still possible. You're right. I think just to add to that when you you've been through a lot and for example you cannot speak the language you try to listen to voice like even like people giving you advice saying you can't do this because of this real life experience will tell you uh look don't think about going back to school you're too old don't think about doing this you can't speak the language you don't have the culture or you do this you are this then you knew the real you and the person we were meant to be trying to tell you something and that's why sometimes you feel like uncomfortable why am I uncomfortable what is missing what is it that's what I say by the inner voice I think there is something that your body want to tell you for example my own experience I wasn't comfortable and I was just feeling like this feelings of like depression not clinical depression but having these feelings like you need to go back to school you need to do this my ins So many back then, you know, lack of sleep. It wasn't related to no was your body trying to remind you do this. So be you. Embrace yourself. What is hard in life does not mean it is impossible. That's what I meant by your inner voice. Is your body trying to communicate? What is your body trying to tell you? Yeah. Be aligned with who you think you should be and have the work ethics to follow through. You know, I think work ethics is very important as well. Do you have a book, a movie or a series or any kind of content that inspired you and that you would like to recommend to the audience? I I don't know if I can um say this, but there's this book by Desh. Desh is my friend and I may be biased, but I think stronger if it's someone, you know, wanting motivation, I recommend that book. Yeah, I read it before I met him and and honestly I couldn't stop reading. I read it in one night or one one or two days. Like it was so good because it's so conversational and deep at the same time. It was just so inspiring but at the same time relatable and yeah it was a fantastic book. So highly recommend to anyone. Desh Palipana Stronger. Yep. Yep. Yep. And the other one is called The Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holidayiday. Is there a guest that you would like to hear on the podcast? Someone perhaps you feel inspired by because their story is inspiring or the way they think is inspiring. There's someone in Sydney. His name is Pacific. I think he'll be a great person to also invite and have on the podcast. Pacific. Okay. Well, let's chat about that. I'm curious. I have one final question that I like to ask my guests and I'm going to slightly tweak it for you. When you hear the word refugee, what is the first thought that instinctively comes to your mind? So if you ask me that question in 2016 17 of say is failure hope you know when like it's it's quite hard when you have those two things at the same time resilience you know those words you know I think now that have become more mature I think about those people who make others go through that journey so I think of those espotic leaders I think of those people who make those catastrophes and devastation. So, I think about them and um we should hold them to account. Yeah, it's you you're the first one to actually say that on the podcast and I think it's really important to hear that. Christian, it was amazing to have a conversation with you. I feel like every time I meet with you, I I never want the conversation to stop, which I think is a very good sign. But thank you so much for sharing so much of your story with me. I'm sure that there is so much more to explore. But you know, I feel very privileged that you trusted me enough to share everything that you've been through and the way you think about your story, I think is very very inspiring. So for those who would like to perhaps get in contact with you or keep up to date with what you're doing, how can they find you and contact you? Yeah, give them my email. contact numbers and social media. I'm on LinkedIn, Facebook. If you put in the name uh Christian Dima, it'll pop up. Christian, thank you so much for tonight. Emma, it's my pleasure and thank you so much for having me. Thank you for listening to this episode. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Christian and the story he has shared. If you did and want to help the show grow, make sure you follow us and show us some love with likes and stars in the ratings. Your support helps more than I can say. Next week, I will be interviewing Katherine Maguire Don Vito, the director and co-founder of Treehouse Theater, an organization that helps refugee adolescents overcome trauma through storytelling and drama therapy. So stay tuned. I was your host, Emma Bilani, and I cannot wait to bring you on another journey from there to here. [Music]
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Christian learned English by accepting mistakes, refusing to be embarrassed, and speaking repeatedly until he could be understood, using math as proof that some things don't require language fluency.
This conversation includes why christian is here, growing up in burundi before the fracture, the government becomes a killing machine, why a student became a target, leaving without a backpack and three years waiting in the refugee camp.
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