Andrew Mac Donald
Sergeant Pepper and the Art of Helping
Andrew Mac Donald learned that nursing a stray cat back to health healed his PTSD more than a national bravery award ever could.
Hear this story
Kintsugi Studio
Andrew Mac Donald
Andrew Mac Donald learned that nursing a stray cat back to health healed his PTSD more than a national bravery award ever could.
Hear this story
Andrew Mac Donald grew up in Sydney with XLH, a rare inherited bone disease that affected his growth and required two major leg surgeries during his final years of high school. He spent year 11 and 12 on crutches, learning to walk again between operations. After high school, he drifted through sound engineering work before landing at Bunnings, where his organisational skills quickly moved him into a management role by age 24.
Few months into his management position, Andrew intervened during an armed robbery at the store. When three men attacked a loss prevention officer, Andrew wrestled with them over a gun. As they fled, one of the assailants fired twice in his direction before the gun jammed. The bullets missed him. For this act, he received the Star of Courage, one of Australia's highest bravery awards. But the year that followed was brutal. His manager criticised him at work, false alarms triggered panic, court cases dragged on, and Andrew found himself questioning whether he had done the right thing. He developed PTSD and eventually resigned from Bunnings.
Then Sergeant Pepper arrived. A sick stray cat wailing at his apartment window in the middle of winter, insistent and unwell. Andrew and his partner took her to the vet, discovered she had feline AIDS, and decided to care for her. Unlike the award or the recognition, caring for Sergeant Pepper shifted something in Andrew. Even when she wouldn't accept affection, even when she hissed and refused touch for months, the act of helping her felt right. It settled his soul. He realised the Star of Courage had meant nothing to his recovery, but nursing a stray cat back to health changed everything.
Today, Andrew teaches students with additional needs. He is married, has a daughter, and lives with Sergeant Pepper, who now sleeps on their bed and waits at the door for him each morning. He credits his partner's emotional openness, his family's support, and the act of caring for others as the real factors that helped him heal.
“Getting an award that said, You know, you've got the second highest bravery award in the country. That didn't help my journey to feeling better about myself... But adopting a stray cat outside of my window one night and nursing her back to health, that did. And that was powerful. And that was life-changing.”
“I knew that I had to make a change when I started questioning whether saving that person's life was the right decision. And I think for everyone, that's a no-brainer... if you're at a point months and years later going, 'I wonder if I made the right decision,' something's wrong. With your mental health.”
“Even though she didn't want help necessarily, she got it. And that just really sort of every day reminded me that, you know, even though it may not look right because she's not affectionate back, it is right. It is the right thing to do.”
The hero, today
Andrew spent years questioning whether he did the right thing in the Bunnings incident, until he realised that when he stopped doubting and simply helped, his mental health shifted. Caring for Sergeant Pepper taught Andrew that the right thing to do does not require affection in return or recognition; the act itself is what settles the soul. When Andrew opened up to his partner about his struggle instead of hiding it, she responded with care and created space for him to sit with his sadness without judgment. Andrew became a teacher because he wanted to help young people the same way his own teachers had helped him through trauma, and that work has made him grateful every day. Simple kindnesses like volunteering, donating blood, or helping someone you know struggling have done more for Andrew's sense of purpose and mental health than any award ever did.
Yes. Andrew Mac Donald is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Andrew spent years questioning whether he did the right thing in the Bunnings incident, until he realised that when he stopped doubting and simply helped, his mental health shifted.
Caring for Sergeant Pepper taught Andrew that the right thing to do does not require affection in return or recognition; the act itself is what settles the soul.
When Andrew opened up to his partner about his struggle instead of hiding it, she responded with care and created space for him to sit with his sadness without judgment.
Andrew became a teacher because he wanted to help young people the same way his own teachers had helped him through trauma, and that work has made him grateful every day.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 00:02
Welcome to another Animals and Us podcast episode. Today we have an extraordinarily brave guest, Andrew McDonald. Andrew's story is one of resilience and courage and a testament to the profound impact of human-animal connections. Born and raised in Sydney, Andrew faced significant challenges early in his life due to a rare physical disorder that required many painful interventions. Despite these obstacles, he pursued a career in music and writing and worked with prominent artists. However, Andrew's life took a dramatic turn in 2010 when he displayed extraordinary bravery during an armed robbery at his workplace, an act for which he was awarded one of the nation's highest honors for bravery. This incident led to a period of intense personal struggle, but it was during this challenging time that Andrew's friendship with his cat Sergeant Pepper became a critical part of his recovery.
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 01:03
Breathe, breathe in the air.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 01:08
Hello, Andy, and welcome to Animals and Us.
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 01:10
Thank you very much for having me. Nice to be here.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 01:13
Now, I had the pleasure of meeting you at an Australian Bravery Association dinner in Canberra last year, and it's really lovely to see you again today.
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 01:23
More stories
This site is part of Kintsugi Heroes. Visit the main site for the full podcast. If any of these stories hit close to home, support is out there, you don't have to sit with it alone.
Read how we handle these stories ↗
Kintsugi Heroes · Registered Australian not-for-profit · kintsugiheroes.com.au ↗
This conversation includes a foot shorter than his twin, surgery and senior year on crutches, from sound engineering to bunnings manager, three men with a gun in the store, the shots fired and the store evacuated and the year after the incident.
Well, thank you very much for having me. I love to talk animals, especially my animals.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 01:28
Great. And I believe you have your special animal with you.
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 01:32
I certainly do. She's perched in her favourite spot in the sunshine.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 01:37
Lovely.
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 01:38
Aren't you, Sergeant Pepper? Psst, psst, psst, psst. There she is.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 01:41
Hello. We're going to talk about you later, Sergeant Pepper.
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 01:46
Everything's about her. She'll be very happy.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 01:48
Great. Andy, you grew up in Sydney with your twin brother and your childhood was challenged by, um, by very rare unusual circumstances. Would you like to talk about your, your childhood and how that affected the rest of your life?
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 02:04
Um, certainly. So I was gifted with the lucky lottery of a rare inherited disease called XLH, which affects bones, affects growth, affects energy, tiredness, and things like that. So, um, but I had the extra joy of having a twin brother who did not get it. So we grew up, we did primary school together and high school together, and he was always a foot taller than I was. And I had bowed legs and he didn't have bowed legs. And I would go to school every day and get comments and wonderful people talking about my bowed legs and not be able to join in sports or very reluctantly be accepted into teams to do sports. So yeah, high school was pretty rough, but I guess that sort of built-in resilience that you get from having that experience day in and day out and still getting up and going to high school. We also, also had, you know, the constant appointments that you have with rare diseases. So every few weeks it's like off to get blood tests, off to see a doctor, off to do boring stuff, and then you get to catch up on all your homework and all your assignments and stuff as well. So a little bit different from the normal high school experience, I think. But, you know, makes it more interesting, doesn't it?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 03:25
Yeah. And I believe that some of the interventions and surgeries were painful experiences.
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 03:30
Yes, very much so. So I, you know, always dreamed about having straighter legs and walking into school one day and being normal. And so eventually, for year 11 and year 12, I was operated on one leg one year, and then I got to spend a year in crutches. Um, with one operation. So, um, they broke my legs— in my leg in 4 places and reset them with posts and rods and things. Um, and then after about, um, 8 months of learning to walk on that leg again, they break the other one and you get to learn to walk on that one for 6 to 8 months. So that was my senior year. There was no like, uh, senior camp for me or, you know, super exciting stuff. It was recovering from surgery.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 04:18
Oi, sounds brutal.
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 04:19
It was a bit.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 04:21
And yeah, I understand that you're a school teacher now, and we'll come to that later, but can you tell us how you ended up working for Bunnings in a Bunnings store?
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 04:31
Um, I got into Bunnings out of high school. I had an issue in high school because a lot of kids, um, as you'll be aware no doubt, is, uh, when you get to senior year, that's when you get your, um, part-time jobs and you start to work at the newsagents or at Woolworths and stuff like that. And I couldn't do that in high school. So I found, I studied sound engineering after high school and I worked in studios and things like that. But they're very much sort of pro bono work. If the artist has any money, then you'll get some money if you record their album. I was desperately searching after high school to get any sort of job. And I thought, you know, hardware, you know, I could do that. You know, I've just had 2 surgeries. Sure, I can walk around on a concrete floor for 8 hours a day. But yeah, I thankfully got through the interview process and found actually I was pretty organized. Normally you go into Bunnings, you do the aisle jockey thing for a little, for a little while. But I also managed my bands when I was in a band. I sort of organized them, organized rehearsals, do all that sort of thing, and found pretty quickly that they were transferable skills. And I was pretty quickly had people go, oh, you could be in charge of this little promotion team that we have in store. Oh, you could be in charge of the night fill team because you're good at organizing. And then eventually, hey, do you want to take the course to be a manager? And I thought, of course, that like, no, I'm going to have a music career and I'm going to be a sound engineer and do all this other stuff. But after a while, I was like, okay, twisted my arm, and sure enough, um, passed the course and got pretty immediately put into a managerial role sometime later, um, at the tender age of 24. My own department in a new store.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 06:22
Great. Andy, there was an incident at Bunnings which was life-changing. Can you describe what happened on that day and, and the aftermath? Because I understand the incident was much longer than a day, how it affected your life.
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 06:38
Only a few months after becoming a manager in my own section of a store at Bunnings, we had an incident where some people came into the store. They were demanding to talk to the security officer, the loss prevention officer, who's just a plainclothes person who sort of wanders around and checks that people aren't stealing stuff, which was a weird request. Um, so I thought that was strange, and I'll just defuse this situation if I can, and offered to make these three gentlemen, um, coffee in the office. Do you want to talk about an issue? Um, but they were very insistent. Um, and unfortunately, um, for everyone involved, the loss prevention officer did come around a corner at just that time, um, and they immediately set upon attacking that officer and trying to drag him out of the store. And he was calling for help. And so I got in between them trying to break up what I thought was, you know, a scuffle and calm everyone down and talk about it. And then a gun was produced by one of the three men, and they attempted to use that on the loss prevention officer, but he managed to get hold of the gun. We wrestled. I ended up on the pile. There was 3 of them against the loss prevention officer and myself. So I had, you know, an arm on one of them, a foot on another one, my hand on the gun as well, and basically wrestled and wrestled until the loss prevention officer managed to get away. And me not being the brawniest of characters, somehow they— the 3 of them did manage to shove me off and into a pile of boxes and then go looking for the officer. So I got into a bit of panic mode at that point, being a manager and being in charge of all the people at the store that day. So I followed them and ordered them out of the store. They did threaten to shoot me a few times, but I told them, you know, I'm just here until you get out of the store. I'm not stopping you. 'You go out of the store and I'll leave you alone, that'll be fine.' And eventually they gave up their search. While they were doing that, I was also directing traffic, keeping inquisitive customers and people as far away as I could. And eventually they did leave through the trade entrance, and I was holding the crowd back, making sure everyone was— and trying to close the doors and keep the crowd inside, because of course a crowd had formed, because that would be your worst nightmare as a manager, people just following along. And while I was doing that, one of the assailants opened fire and fired two shots in my direction. And I think the gun jammed after that, thankfully. And thankfully, being a small target— thank you, XLH— those bullets missed me. So, you know, there are benefits, I guess.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 09:42
Gosh, what a day at work.
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 09:45
What a day at work. And then of course there's the evacuating the store, making sure traumatized team members are okay, making sure the loss prevention officer is okay. The police came, and thanks to some retired police officers that were in the store, they managed to follow and arrest the assailants in question. And yeah, so we were left with the management of the people behind in the store.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 10:10
And I understand that led to you being awarded one of our nation's highest bravery awards, the Star of Courage.
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 10:19
It certainly did. It was a shock to me.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 10:21
Fantastic. And it also led to a lot of trauma for years later. Could you describe that and how the longer impact that incident had on you?
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 10:31
Yeah, so, um, initially I think the, the incident, um, as, as anyone would tell you, there's a an element of shock involved, and you feel like, you know, it wasn't that, that big of a deal. And you go— I went to work the next day, finished my work for the rest of the week, to check in on my, my friends and my, my colleagues. But there was also like little incidents that bring up issues. So like when I went to work the next day, my manager actually chastised me in front of the entire store for being a wannabe hero and stuff like that, which was a complete shock. Instead of a well done saving someone's life, well done, or thank you, yeah, getting that instead. And then that sort of, you know, those comments would repeat for the weeks as you're at work. Some of the other younger people at work maybe thought they were being helpful by calling me and saying, you know, while I was on the night shift, like, I think those guys are back, I think they're in this section of the store. And it's completely random people that have nothing to do with anything. Also, the grind of, you know, that incident happened 5 days ago, now we've got stocktake, we need you to do 16-hour shifts, count all these nuts and bolts, and we need you to up your game because the department's not selling as much in this season as it should be. When, you know, 5 days ago, 2 weeks ago, you almost didn't leave your work alive. So that sort of, that sort of wears you down a little bit, um, to the point where it wasn't until like 2 or 3 months later, I was getting up for a morning shift and I sort of hazed out. It was like 4 AM getting ready for a 5 o'clock, um, at the store, and I sort of woke up staring at my drawer full of my Bunnings shirts, and I realized that I just didn't want to put one on. It felt like the red shirt was a target because, again, as a criminal case that I was involved in, you don't know, you know, who's been arrested, who's been put out on bail, whose friends know what happened, and who's taken a photo of you and put it in the newspaper, and who's going to be upset by that.. And I just realized at that point that, you know, there was an unconscious physical thing stopping me from grabbing a shirt. I continued to go to work, but I put in my resignation. And of course, when everyone at work's like, is it because of the incident? That macho element comes in and goes, no, I've got other things that I think are more important. I'm going to go and do this. I'm going to go and study and do something else. You know, because that culture in the store as well was very much like, you don't want to be one of those people, you know, one of those workers' comp people. We despise those people. They're the worst. So you don't want to talk about your problems. You don't want to admit to anything. And that also, I think, compounds the issue. And then, of course, on top of that, there's the court cases that you have to go through and the detectives you have to speak to and the reliving and reimagining of the situation to people over and over again, um, and then go to court and have these fancy defense lawyers say, oh, you're making the whole thing up from scratch, none of— nothing ever happened. And it's like, wow. And of course you're in court, so you're not allowed to say anything other than yes sir, no sir, um. So it was a lot to struggle with, and I think I I knew that I had to make a change when I started questioning whether saving that person's life was the right decision. And I think for everyone, that's a no-brainer. Like, you've got someone who's in distress, who's about to be killed, obviously you do everything you can to save that person. So if you're at a point months and years later going, "I wonder if I made the right decision," something's wrong. With your, with your, um, state, with your, with your mental health.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 14:37
So you're struggling with your mental health for a while following that, um, event, and I believe that a very special animal entered your life just when you needed her. Could you tell us about Sergeant Pepper and how she entered your life and the impact that she had on, on your well-being?
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 14:55
Yeah, well, Sergeant, um, picked picked me, as they say. One day in our small apartment on top of a shop in New South Wales, she came wailing at our window in the middle of the night, and I was so confused because, you know, you had to get up on the roof and up on the second story to howl at this window. Why was she at our window? And she wouldn't go away. It was freezing outside. It was the dead of winter, and she stayed there. I saw her the next morning when I was off to my teaching job the next day at a distance because she was definitely a stray cat from the alley and she wouldn't get close to me. And I remember thinking to myself, because she was there the next night doing the same thing, and the next night was raining, and I was like, I can't have a cat. Like, I had a cat as a kid, but I'm allergic to cats. They, you know, I've got a free lifestyle where I can go out and I could do what I want. I'm not having a cat. But then she just kept coming back, and she actually, after a while, my partner noticed that she was sneezing a lot. She was making these little sad sneezing noises. So we put out a blanket for her. I'm like, that's all she needs, she's a stray, she'll put out a box with a blanket and she'll be warm through the winter and she'll just go away eventually. And she didn't, she stayed in the box. She ate some food that we put out for her because we were worried that she might be a bit sick. And eventually we managed to coax her inside because I said to my partner, it's like, she is unwell if she's spending this much time around humans. We'll just take her to a vet. We'll take her to a vet. We'll get her checked out. The vet will keep her and find a nice home for her, etc. We coached her in, got her to the vet immediately. The vet said she was very sick. She had a bad flu or something in the bad weather. She needed to be on antibiotics and bring her back, you know, 3 more times in the next few weeks and otherwise keep her indoors, keep her warm and look after her. And we were like, us? We weren't going to keep her. We were just bringing her to you. But then my partner sort of gave me a look and said, what do you want to do? And I looked at this tiny, sick little cat. And I think the way she tells it, I was a bit teary. And I was like, she's sick. Of course we have to take care of her. Of course we have to take her in. And so, yeah, 3 or 4 weeks later, after her last injection and she was feeling a bit better, They were like, right, so sign the— get the microchip and make it official. And we were like, yeah, okay, she's ours. Yeah. So she came in a very special, very insistent way. And she's been here ever since.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 17:34
Fantastic. And how has Sergeant Pepper helped you with your— given you emotional support and helped you with your recovery from the Bunnings?
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 17:43
A very special person said to me a few years ago, her name's Sally, and we were at an event and we were setting up for an event for the Bravery Association. And we got there early, as we do, and the tables weren't set up and nothing was sort of organized. We had— and so everyone pitched in and just grabbed something and started doing something and set up this whole event, this whole get-together. And Sally got up on the microphone and she said, you can really tell when it's a Bravery Association dig because everyone gets in and helps. And really, that's kind of what bravery is. It's that urge to help that is so strong, to help others, that it just overrides, you know, fear or your self-preservation at the time. So really, you know, brave people are just helpful people by another name. And, um, Sergeant, um, really, I guess, brought that out because she needed help very similarly to certain people who were almost killed in my store needed help. And unlike the issues that I was having with, was it— did I do the right thing compared to what effect it had on my life, Sergeant sort of reminded me that it was actually very easy. Yes, the right thing is to help. The right thing is to treat this cat and, you know, keep her healthy and keep her happy. And she showed me that. And being a stray cat, We had to struggle to do that. She didn't like being cornered anywhere. She didn't like being fed. She didn't like cuddles. You know, we had a cat in our house that we weren't allowed to touch for the first 12 months. She wouldn't come near us at all. But still, we put out the food. We laid out warm places for her to crash, little beds for her. And even though she didn't want help necessarily, She got it. And that just really sort of every day reminded me that, you know, even though it may not look right because she's not affectionate back, it is right. It is the right thing to do. And it's just the little things. It doesn't have to be a huge, brave thing that you might get a medal for or anything like that. It's just about, you know, doing what in your heart is right. And it feels good even if you don't get immediate gratification or someone else telling you it's a great job, or someone telling you the opposite, like managers or like cats that hiss at you. You know it's a good thing that you're doing, and that's settling for the soul, I think. And yeah, and after 12 months, she did come for her first sit on someone's lap. And after a year and a half, she did come and sleep on the bed with us, and she And, you know, here we are several years later and we've got a little cat cam. And every time I leave for work in the morning, she follows me all the way to the door trying to get me to stay at home, curling up and crying at me and waiting for me at the door when I get home. And it's like, yeah, it's helped me on my journey to sort of have this extra experience of being just as helpful and just as vital because it turns out We found out after a year and a very thankful experience with a vet that Sergeant came to us with FIV, which is feline AIDS, which is why she was so sick from her original flu and why she might not have made it through without intervention and things like that. So we kind of got the opportunity to save another life. I mean, saving every life is special, but she's just adorable and we just love her. And it's, it's just as special to us having that opportunity to help again.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 21:29
I love the term you use, settling for the soul. By helping Sergeant Pepper and expressing compassion was settling for your soul. Love that.
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 21:38
And that's it. It's also getting out of yourself, you know, that depression can really make you sort of, I guess, whirlpool into your, into yourself and into your things that are going wrong for you, things that aren't working out as you planned, and all the decisions that you made. And every time you get home now, you've got someone else to focus on, and someone else who doesn't care about any of the bad decisions or any of the things that you've done or any of the issues that you might have. They just care that you're there with them, and you get to look at them and hold them and look after them. And yeah, it gets you out of that black hole and back into the sunshine, which she loves. She's sitting in the sunshine right now.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 22:24
Lovely. Andy, obviously Sgt Pepper played a critical role in your recovery and in your resilience. What other factors contributed to your resilience?
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 22:34
I guess the XLH that I grew up with definitely helped with the resilience, and I think that sort of helped in the moment. With, you know, do I run away or do I help out? And, you know, having such terrible weak bones and, you know, low energy, running's never really an option. So that helps. But also my partner as well. I'm a very logical person. So things like, I honestly, when I was eventually diagnosed with PTSD, I thought PTSD was for returned soldiers only and police officers only. And things like this. The idea that it would affect a normal citizen with no training and things like that didn't occur to me. But my partner is very empathetic, very emotionally in tune, very open to caring for others and looking after others. So where I would have been very, "This is illogical, this doesn't make sense, this is just a feeling, it needs to go away," Being able to, one of my other favorite phrases now is sit with my sadness, which is something that a lot of people feel sad, they feel depressed, and they instantly feel wrong. Like this is a wrong emotion. I should fit in with society. Everyone else is golden and happy and smiling. And then they feel bad about that too. Whereas nowadays, if I'm having what we call in the house a black day, where I'm reliving some things and feeling a bit down, I immediately tell my wife. I don't hide it. I don't brood over it. And she immediately says, "What can I get for you? Coffee, tea, bath, anything, and I will leave you alone until you want something." And that open sort of communication has been a huge transformation in my life because I was really not used to doing it coming from that that Bunnings, that machismo, that don't admit to anything, be tough sort of environment. And yeah, so Sergeant has helped, my partner has helped, my family as well were very supportive. After being unable to work at Bunnings, my very patient family, my parents took me back in at, you know, 25, moving back home and looking for reeducating and a new career path. So they were very patient as well. And so, yeah, everybody, it really takes reaching out to the people around you that really are willing to help. And I think with depression and things like that, it's easy to think that you are different to other people. Like, you would help anyone who asked you for help and who said they were down, um, who said they needed it, but thinking that that's different from how other people would treat you. And it's not. Your family, your friends. Your partners, they would treat you hopefully the exact same way and with the exact same care, and they would not judge you in the exact same way that you wouldn't judge them, which is important to keep in mind.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 25:32
Yeah, the importance of social connection. Andy, what does your life look like now? Is it 14 years after that event?
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 25:41
Yeah, it's 10 years after the citation, um, and 14 years after the event, and you can probably see some sunshine outside, which is exactly what my world looks like today. I have the most beautiful Sergeant Pepper still with us and I'm so affectionate. I have the most beautiful and attentive and wonderful wife in the world and we just had the most gorgeous firstborn daughter. Scarlett has just joined us. We have our own careers. I'm teaching now. I actually am teaching because, directly because of the event. This citation is from. I sat with myself after changing careers and getting out of Bunnings, and I remember saying to myself, because I'm a logical person, why would someone do that? You know, someone's been kicked out of a store for stealing something, and they thought that the best thing for them to do was to bring a gun back and try and murder someone, you know. And there's 3 people did it, so what has happened in their life? What has happened in their care, their education that they got to that point? And I remember thinking, well, I had some fantastic teachers, some really sweet people that got me through all the trauma that I had during high school. And maybe I'm not the most intelligent and researched teacher in the world who's gonna get everyone an A+, but maybe I could be that kind of teacher that helps people through that stops them falling through the cracks. And immediately I got a job after having this idea. I got a job working with learning support students specifically who do have additional needs, and that was also life-changing. So I am in a career that I am daily thankful for the opportunity to help these people. And often, you know, teenage high school students don't always have the most rosy things to say about their teachers. Um, just like, you know, Sergeant Peppers when they first came into the house. But helping them, helping my family, and having a home for them, and helping little Scarlett into the world, it really is hard to see anything other than sunshine at the moment.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 27:56
Wonderful. I'd like to tap into your wisdom now, Andy. So you have been exposed to violence and some of the worst of human behaviors. How do you maintain a positive outlook about humans and the world in general?
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 28:12
That was, I guess, part of the initial struggle was to sort of— I remember being at the police station after the incident and they were like, why did you get involved? Why did you stand between someone with a gun that wanted to use it? And I said to the police officer, I'm like, I just assumed that I'd never seen these people before. They didn't have any sort of argument with me, so why would they shoot me? And she put down her— like, she stopped typing on her little keyboard of the incident. She looked at me across the desk and said, well, they did shoot at you. I was like, oh yeah. Um, and that really sort of affected my understanding of humanity and what people were capable of doing. And I guess since then, having seen all that and making the decision— and I think It is a decision to get into teaching, to help people with special needs, to adopt this beautiful cat, to open up and ask for help is seeing all of those other people that are helping as well. All of those other people that decided to be teachers with their lives, decided to be, um, teachers of people with special needs, decided to be counselors, decided to be doctors, nurses, vets. There's so many more people that are giving everything of themselves to make humanity a better place than those people that are trying to do terrible things. And, you know, for every one of them, there's dozens of people that are just make life worth getting up in the morning and being with great people like that. And really, I guess once you feel the joy of giving and trying to help, And genuinely, genuinely not expecting anything back. You know, those teachers that work with students with advanced special needs, I work in a different field now as a teacher, but those teachers, they know full well the people that they're helping can't appreciate it and won't appreciate them for everything they're doing, and they really don't care. The joy that they get from the job is knowing that they're helping others. And that has been a huge perspective shift and a huge help in the journey.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 30:26
Andy, for those in the audience who are facing challenges now or who know other people who are facing challenges now, what advice would you give to people about overcoming adversity?
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 30:38
Definitely the advice I would give is to Find someone, find something, an organization, or find an animal. Find some way, something that you can care about more than the issues that are circling around in your soul that are hovering and sort of weighing down on you. Go and find a charity and volunteer for an afternoon. Donate blood. Find a shelter that you can volunteer at. Or someone that you know, someone that you know that's also struggling and help them out and don't expect anything. Don't expect anything. And if they offer you anything, you know, say no thanks and just get that feeling of helping others. And it really is, it does become a joy. It's hard at the start to drag yourself up out of the funk, but helping others has been the real thing that has changed and helped me move forward.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 31:38
Isn't there a quote by the Dalai Lama, something along those lines of, if you want to be happy, be kind. If you want others to be happy, be kind.
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 31:46
Yeah, exactly. And it's, and it's again, it goes back to what we talked about earlier where we, I had that confusion about whether I did the right thing. And by helping Sergeant, it simplified it all. It simplified and soothed everything because it was the right thing.. And if I keep doing other things, I, we volunteer and we give blood, um, we help charitable organizations. And that is simple because it is a good thing and it is the right thing. And if you, you might be depressed, you might wonder, you know, what the point of it all is and what your purpose here is. And, but you don't when you've helped someone else, um, when you've helped other people that need it, you have purpose and it's simple and it takes away all the jargon and all the double thought. Do something simple, do it for others, and you'll always have a purpose.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 32:34
Andy, what would be your main takeaway that you'd like the audience to take away from our conversation, particularly in relation to our relationship with other animals?
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 32:46
I would say that some of these journeys are tough. Some of these journeys take time, and they involve things that we don't even think about. But from my perspective, getting an award that said, You know, you've got the second highest bravery award in the country. That didn't help my journey to feeling better about myself, feeling more centered, feeling less worried and less depressed. But adopting a stray cat outside of my window one night and nursing her back to health, that did. And that was powerful. And that was life-changing. So the takeaway that I would have is that simple kindnesses that really get us through.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 33:29
Andy, as an animal lover myself, I know that animal-loving people are very cautious when it comes to watching movies or documentaries about animals because they often end in tears. But do you have a favorite movie or documentary about animals that you'd like to recommend?
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 33:47
I always loved, um, as a kid, um, T'Challa, The Land Before Time. Do you remember that one? The Dinosaurs. It was a kids movie back when I was a kid, and about these little dinosaurs that get separated from the herd, um, and they just wander along. And starts with one little dinosaur by himself, and he finds another who's lost, and they join the troop. And they find another who's lost, and they join the troop. And they just adopt these other little dinosaurs on the way. And, um, it's— yeah, it's a beautiful little movie, and I plan to show Scarlett as She is old enough.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 34:20
It's a good one for people who have children.
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 34:23
The children's movie. It's one of those older children's movies where the opening scene has, you know, some sad scenes about parents, as they usually do in those old Disney movies. But it's really beautiful.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 34:36
Andy, thank you so much for your time. Could we have one more look at Sergeant Pepper before we finish?
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 34:42
Is that you, Dolly? Yeah, soaking it up, enjoying, enjoying life and letting me pat her nowadays.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 34:55
Good, lovely. Andy, thank you so much for your time, really appreciate it.
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 34:59
Thank you too, it's been awesome. Fantastic being here. Thanks, Natalie.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 35:05
Take care, bye.
Andrew Mac Donald (Guest) · 35:06
Follow Animals and Us is a production of Kintsugi Heroes. Thank you to Xavier Rudd for his permission to use Follow the Sun as our theme music for this series. If you enjoyed this conversation, share the podcast with a friend and let us know by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to support Kintsugi Heroes and the stories we share, head to kintsugiheroes.com. And follow the instructions to make a tax-deductible donation. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 35:46
Brand new moon, brand new sun.
You don't have to be in crisis to call.
Subscribe
Spotify
Apple