Is this a true story?

Yes. Bradley Spillane is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.

What organisation produced this?

Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.

What did Bradley Spillane learn from this experience?

The anger Bradley felt after surviving his second attempt was easier to live with than the deep sadness and guilt underneath, and it took him until a third attempt before he decided to actually engage with help.

What would Bradley Spillane want listeners to know?

Bradley credits a friend named Wes who lost his own brother to suicide with helping him see that sharing his story on radio and in person might honour a life that could have been saved, which became the foundation of his advocacy work.

What helped Bradley Spillane most along the way?

Bradley learned that accepting accountability for his own actions, rather than blaming others or circumstance, gave him the chance to grow and be kinder to himself, even though he still carries shame.

What would Bradley Spillane tell someone going through something similar?

Bradley's physical injuries from his second attempt forced him to learn to listen better, and that skill became more valuable to his recovery and his relationships than any of the material things he'd lost.

What topics does this episode cover?

This conversation includes content warning, a decade of lived experience, the spiral before the first attempt, two attempts and a hospital bed, anger as a mask for grief and a mate, a radio show, a light bulb moment.

Shining Light on Men's Mental Health through Advocacy with Bradley Spillane

Kintsugi Studio

Shining Light on Men's Mental Health through Advocacy with Bradley Spillane | Kintsugi Heroes Stories

Overview

Bradley Spillane survived two serious suicide attempts in 2013 and 2014. The second attempt, by hanging, left him with severe fractures to his face and neck requiring extensive reconstructive surgery. He spent months in hospital and woke from his coma angry, not grateful. It took a third attempt before he decided to actually engage with help.

What changed was not therapy or self-help books, but a mate named Wes who had lost his own brother to suicide. Wes told Bradley that if his brother had survived and was doing what Bradley was doing now, that would mean something. That conversation became a turning point. Bradley started sharing his story on a friend's mental health podcast, and that small act of speaking became what he calls his light bulb moment. He realised his focus could shift from himself to listening to other men.

The physical injuries forced him to become a better listener. Without the ability to dominate conversations, he learned to hold space for others. That skill has become central to everything he does now. Bradley hosts the Men's Mental Health Radio Show on Radio Blue Mountains, runs walk-and-talk community events, and simply shows up for men in crisis, offering his time and honesty rather than expert advice.

He still struggles with chronic pain and sleep, still catches himself reverting to old patterns. But he has learned to measure himself not against perfection but against his own capacity to show up, make amends, and help someone else who is where he once was. He is starting a Cert IV in mental health, looking forward to his daughter's visits, and spending time with mates who know his full story. The gold in his cracks is the connection he now builds with others.

⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses grief & loss and suicide & self-harm prevention, which some listeners may find distressing.

If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au • GriefLine: 1300 845 745 · griefline.org.au

Chapters

0:00
Content warning
Bradley introduces the episode and flags that it contains frank discussion of suicide.
2:55
A decade of lived experience
Bradley explains he's been working in men's mental health advocacy for over a decade, starting from a place of personal crisis.
5:38
The spiral before the first attempt
Bradley describes the layers of guilt, shame, and self-sabotage that built toward his suicide attempt in 2013.
8:30
Two attempts and a hospital bed
Bradley recounts the carbon monoxide attempt in October 2013 and the hanging attempt on 6 January 2014 that left him with severe facial and neck fractures.
12:04
Anger as a mask for grief
Bradley reflects on waking up angry after his attempt and how rage protected him from feeling the deeper despair underneath.
15:26
A mate, a radio show, a light bulb moment
Bradley describes meeting a friend who invited him on a mental health podcast, which became the turning point that shifted his focus from himself to helping others.
19:42
Learning to listen when he couldn't speak
Bradley talks about how the physical restrictions from his injuries taught him to become a better listener, which became central to his work with other men.
22:57
Gratitude as a toolkit
Bradley explains how he now uses gratitude and specific skills, like calling people back and naming his struggles, to manage the chronic pain and sleep issues that persist.
27:38
Mistakes as compass points
Bradley describes how repeating the same mistakes with his father taught him to try different approaches and ask for help instead of pretending to have all the answers.
31:19
The apology that rebuilt a relationship
Bradley recounts writing his 'greatest apology' to his father after a trip to Thailand, owning his actions without blame-shifting, which became a turning point in their relationship.
38:27
How to hold grief without running
Bradley processes the recent death of his co-host Bodhi by choosing to celebrate his life rather than avoid the sadness, and by asking what Bodhi would do.
45:11
What's next
Bradley lists what he's looking forward to: his daughter's visits, starting a Cert IV in mental health, honest conversations with mates, and the walk-and-talk community events happening in the Blue Mountains.

1 of 7

A decade of lived experience

John Milham (Host) · 02:55

In 2014, yeah, really. Oh, it's been a 10-year experience.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 03:00

And out of your travels, which we'll talk about further, you have become an advocate, a community volunteer and spokesperson, and of course, through the Men's Mental Health Radio Show on Radio Blue Mountains. A lodestone, a center for people talking about something that wasn't fashionable when you started, which was men's mental health and men's health in general. So Brad, tell us a little about who you are and then maybe a little bit about how you got to where you are today.

John Milham (Host) · 03:36

Well, I'm a Northern Beaches boy originally. I now live in Lawson in the Blue Mountains. I think I moved out here when I was 39, so I'm 49 now. And I went through a divorce in 2014 and, you know, I didn't take it too well. It, I'd like to sort of look back sometimes and say, geez, I could have done it better, but we could do that about a lot of things in life. And, you know, through a lot of, I guess at the time leading up to that, you know, a fair bit of substance and alcohol abuse and, you know, on my part, I won't speak about my, my ex-wife, but what had happened was the marriage, it came to the end. I had two kids. Got pretty angry and threw a lot of stuff in the swimming pool. And, um, it sort of spiraled out of control from there. And I made, I made an attempt on my life, uh, through carbon monoxide poisoning in October of 2013. And my brother-in-law ended up pulling me out of the car, which was, um, thankful, I guess. And then, um, I made an attempt on the 6th of January 2014, and, uh, by way of hanging. And subsequently, uh, ended up in, in hospital in a coma. Compression fractures to the neck and multiple, uh, plates and fractures to the face. So they took the whole face off here and down the side here, and these, you know, 9 plates through here and a number of benchtop screws and, and whatnot. And through blood transfusions and, and several weeks or months in hospital through that year, and I guess You, like a lot of people, when you make a serious attempt, you wake up and the first real emotion is anger. I wasn't too happy that I was still here. And then, um, you know, I, I checked myself into a clinic. I didn't get it. That, when I say I didn't get it, I didn't understand the process. It was really my first time to a clinic. And I, I have to admit, it probably took me until my third attempt before I decided to wake up to myself and, and say, hey man, you're here for a reason. Let's have a crack at this.

The spiral before the first attempt

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 05:38

Wow. So you had that first attempt, obviously that was before the breakup. So the breakup played a part in subsequent sort of, you know, challenges, but leading up to that, you know, you were obviously in a place where the pain of, of every day was more than the prospect of, of opting out. So a bit of background about that. How did you get to that point?

John Milham (Host) · 05:59

Well, everywhere or everything I was doing just led to self-sabotage and destruction. And then there was this overwhelming sense of being a burden. I mean, the relationships I tore up between my sister and my brother and my father were just horrible. It was just awful. And even to the extent of some friends who reached out and, you know, the darkness of what's behind that anger. Of deep guilt and shame was overwhelming. And then it's kind of strange, you sort of look at it, but back then it was, it's just gonna be a lot easier to check out. I don't need to put anybody else through this, let alone myself. And so it wasn't really a difficult decision to sort of come to that. I knew that it was coming in the weeks, you know, I was building up to it. But it was, yeah, it was just that, that sense of, you know, I was an extremely angry man, John.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 06:56

Just, I'm interested, guilt and shame. What, what was, what, where was that from? Right.

John Milham (Host) · 07:02

Oh, it, it, it extended to, to all corners of my life. I mean, I had a, I had a business at the time, a gardening business, and I was employing 2 or 3 people. I remember I just came out of a, an operate, I had an operation on my ankle so I couldn't work and I ended up folding the business. And just decided, look, I'll take some time off. And I really didn't give— wasn't fair on, you know, Viv and the other boys that worked for me. It was also too, I think, what was happening at home. You know, we'd grown apart, my ex-wife and I. We were living separate lives. And, you know, I've always been, even to this day, I'm always pretty critical upon myself. I mean, I've got a saying, what I say 2 inches from a mirror I could never repeat to anybody. It's bloody awful sometimes. You know, I wasn't a good provider where I had been. I had a, a great career in real estate. And, and so I guess there was a, a little bit of, you know, some regrets in that sense of getting outta real estate of I've let my father down. That's how I felt. I felt I'd let, you know, my wife down, my kids down, and I felt I, I let all of these people down. And, and you can put all of that together, has nothing, it's nothing on the amount of how I felt I let myself down. Yeah, that was really the shame that I'd had, the guilt of keeping an addiction, you know, from my wife. I'm pretty sure she may have had an idea, but I was very, very good at wearing that mask and hiding behind my addictions, you know, as opposed to seeking help and going to speak to— I'd spoken to therapists in the past. I just, I wasn't good at opening up. I didn't have those skills. And, and I wasn't too unlike many men that, you know, what's this going to do? How much is this going to cost? How long is this going to take? What are they going to uncover? This could make it worse. It's going to make it far worse, you know. And, and, and, you know, I immediately wanted a Band-Aid. I wanted it fixed straight away. But, um, you know, things sort of extended back to my childhood, which I, you know, later worked out only probably 5 or 6 years ago, that a lot of the reasons that stand behind my emotions probably come from my childhood. Well, I mean, I was brought up in a pretty good family. My exceptional mum and dad, they separated when I was 16. I had an illness when I was 5, which paralyzed me from the waist down, and that was called Guillain-Barré. And, you know, so my first sort of 6 months in school, I'm in a wheelchair, you know. And then that, you know, I developed physically a lot later than most of my mates. I was the smallest kid in Year 7. I was the skinniest kid. I had the biggest mouth, but Yeah, so, you know, and there was a, you know, I had a bit of an issue with a doctor, which I won't go into, but, um, you know, I was only quite young when that happened. Um, and then, yeah, just, uh, you know, I, I used to surf a lot and then, you know, I got into smoking pot probably the age of 16. I haven't really touched marijuana since. I sort of grew out of it pretty quickly, but I found it made me look inwards, you know, I'd psychoanalyze myself and, you know, before realizing this is not the way to go. But I knew probably at the age of 16 that I was you know, I had probably a fair imbalance there for something that I should have worked on then. And of course, every time anything would come to the surface that would deeply affect me, be it a falling out with my wife or my father or friends, you know, I'd turn inward. I'd isolate. Disassociate. Absolutely. And that would then lead to, you know, serious shame. Like, you know, how can you do this and why would you do that? And then after that shame, I sort of go through a period of what I call numbness. So if we sort of fast forward to 2013 and '14, it was— I was that numb that I would do anything to try and feel, feel something. Yeah, I wasn't scared of dying. I wasn't scared of anyone. You know, I've never been a violent person. But, um, you know, I didn't care if I was going to go out and get knocked out or whatever. It was, you know, alcohol and cocaine was sort of my choice of drugs back then, and it helped me to forget. You know, I gambled, you know, I did it all. I did any— all the things that you shouldn't do, I didn't do. And of course, all these things feed that shame, they fed that guilt.

Anger as a mask for grief

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 12:04

So just, just talking, going back to something you said earlier about the anger, right? You woke up angry, right? You went in angry into an attempt. You woke up angry, right? You probably, you know, responded to with anger. In fact, you, you're really angry at yourself, right? Where, you know, to do so much damage, you know, to yourself and to the people that counted around you. What do you think that anger is saying?

John Milham (Host) · 12:26

Uh, you failed, like so many times. Um, you, you even failed at this. You even couldn't even succeed in knocking yourself out— off, sorry, I should say. It was just easier to be angry than to be deeply sad, than to, to feel sorry for myself. Of course I felt sorry for myself on many occasions, but The anger, it took over from that self-pity. It took over from that failure to family, friends, and to myself.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 12:58

So that was your language of frustration, grief, regret.

John Milham (Host) · 13:02

Yeah, yeah, very much so.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 13:04

Where was that coming from in you?

John Milham (Host) · 13:08

Oh, what, physically? Or when you say where is that coming— what did it do to me physically? I became a very tense person. I You know, later after that, started to get panic attacks for the first time. My chest would tighten, the rage, my hands would shake. It's phenomenal to think the power of what the mind can do when you're in dealing with life with this one emotion. And mentally, I, you know, I hated myself. I dyed my hair. I did, just did silly things. I just didn't want to look like who I was. I wanted to change. I wanted to run away. I wanted to escape. I wanted to do anything. Which I ended up eventually doing when once, you know, towards the end of 2014, I moved out to the Blue Mountains. I, uh, I, I know I'm sort of digressing from your question here, but no, no, man. Yeah. It, it, it allowed me to, you know, so I thought, well, well, I did escape and I, and I've done it a couple of times even since then. And then in 2018, I, I hooked up my caravan and I went for a drive and, and 4 days later I ended up in Perth because I just hated where I was. I hated my life so much. And then I, I was going through those same patterns of, of letting other people down. Um, you know, people would organize something for, say, a birthday drink or whatever, and I just didn't turn up. And I struggle. And look, I— that— a lot of that hasn't changed today, John. I— you know, you come— we do some podcasts. I sometimes, I, I really struggle to turn up to the radio station. Um, or to the men's table. But, you know, now I'm, I guess I'm able to do that because every time I leave, I know I feel a lot better than what I did before I got there. But it was just easier to escape. Um, it was easier to, to isolate, disassociate.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 14:51

So many, so much in that, mate. So the idea that, uh, you were physically separating from the pain.

John Milham (Host) · 14:58

Yeah. Right.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 14:59

Or from who you were, or who you were. I'm really fascinated by that. So the idea Did you feel like getting away, whether it was through drugs or alcohol or physically moving or cutting yourself off from all of the things that you felt obliged to do? Obviously, it wasn't a really successful strategy. So what kept you going? What were you still driving at?

A mate, a radio show, a light bulb moment

John Milham (Host) · 15:26

Well, I think my kids really were an enormous driving force. I've got a wonderful flatmate who's been very understanding of my circumstances and has given me a lot of her time to work through things. But it would've been 2000, just when I got back from Perth really. And a mate of mine, he was a big fellow and he's lost a lot of weight and he got me, we used to just walk our dogs. He was doing a show up at the Blue Mountains, sort of a comedy skit. And I thought I was pretty good at doing impersonations and whatnot. So we went along and did a few things and And I spoke quite openly about my journey then on the radio or this podcast he'd create on mental health. And he encouraged me into perhaps looking at doing my own show. And it was, that was probably what I refer to as my light bulb moment. I thought, well, maybe this is my calling. Maybe, maybe this isn't all about me. Maybe it's not about, you know, I'm not seeing my kids. I'm, I'm not, you know, my ex-wife won't talk to me. I'm not talking to my dad. And then, and, and of course at the time when you go, it's not there. It's not my fault, it's theirs. And that's probably was the turning point when I, I guess I went and did a, a show. I, I, so I thought I'll, I'll do this men's mental health show and, and talk about it. It's, uh, many people had said to me, man, you've got a, a, an amazing story. You know, I went to a Catholic school. I'm, I'm not a practicing Catholic or not a religious person, but I do believe spiritually that, that things happen for a reason. And I remember the doctor saying to me, you know, he'd been a trauma surgeon for 9 years. When jaws break, they generally pop out, and mine popped in. He said it was one of the worst, you know, jaw fractures he had seen. And he said to me, you know, most people in that situation don't survive. You know, it was a 14, 15-hour operation putting everything together and So I thought, well, shit, man, this is— there's a reason why you're still here. And then I had this friend, Wes Bendings, his name. He lost a brother called Brad who was in the year below me at school at Mater Maria, and his older brother Rob was in my year. And he was a real grounding influence, if that makes sense. He was very good at listening, first and foremost, but he was one of the few people that I spoke to that didn't say there's a light at the end of the tunnel, because I could have thumped someone if they said that again. You know, and bless his heart, mate, he's going through that right now. He's not seeing his kids. And, you know, we talk regularly, but he said to me, man, you know, it was probably after about the third show I did, and he said, you know, I lost a brother called Brad. He took his own life. And I feel I've gained another brother in you, Brad. And if he was here today and he was unsuccessful with his attempt, I doubt he'd be looking at doing things like what you're doing. And that's, you know, that's really powerful, man. And him and I would then, I guess, over the next course of 4 or 5 years, we would share stories of what we had done this week to help someone out or to listen to someone's story. He's just an incredibly generous guy. You know, he had a client that got ripped off and he replaced the hot water system for no cost. And, and I just loved hearing that stuff. So I started to— it became sort of my new addiction, my new feed in life was to— well, I'm not really interested in hearing my story, but geez, I find it fascinating hearing others. So I got to, you know, I got involved with some cricket, cricket clubs up here, and then I had some blokes coming up to me and saying, hey man, um, this mate of mine I'm playing cricket with, he's, he's in a really dark place at the moment. You reckon you could have a chat to him? And and I would, and, and you know, I'm not a counselor or a therapist, but I come from lived experience and I found that purposeful, John. I found it almost like as a calling and everyone I talked to would say, hey man, you, you're really quite good at this. It's, and you get those, some of those skills, I guess, from being in real estate, cuz it's about, you know, being liked or, you know, yeah.

Learning to listen when he couldn't speak

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 19:42

Connecting with someone in a trust space. Yeah.

John Milham (Host) · 19:44

Exactly. And, you know, I mean, I was, you know, I had a flash car and a flash house, and I'd never been so bloody unhappy in my life. And now I've never been so poor. And I guess I'm in a pretty good place and have been for a good 4 or 5 years now. And I think that attributes a lot to the Men's Mental Health Show, to people like Bodhi, to people like yourself, to all the people that have come on and that I've spoken to. Like, if I'm going off on a tangent here, I apologize, I'll come back to it. But look, the Men's Table, you Everybody goes around and has a chat, for example, and hadn't shared for 3 months. It's once a month we hook up and someone said to me, hey man, why you, you've not shared for a while? And I said, well, it's, I'm okay with that, but I'm just taking in, you know, a lot of what you guys are doing. I love the way, you know, you are able to be so brutally honest and having the skill to be able to say no. One of the fellas has. And I said that, I said, I just admire that, I wish I could do that. And another fella, just so kind and so generous, it was— it inspires me. And so I try and take little bits of those guys and try and apply it to— because I effectively had to start again, you know. So that period, 2014, '15, '16, were just fucking awful years, man. They were so I had to start again and all I had to learn, but it was like learning to speak again or walk, really. It was because I was so stripped back of everything, you know, of what I'd had. All of the material things I had had gone. My home, my car, my business, which of course I thought were pretty important things. But, you know, I developed a skill of becoming a better listener. But my life changed because I started to accept that these things that are going wrong in my life are no one else's fault but mine. And, and I still make those mistakes, but I'm able to accept the accountability of my actions. Yeah.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 21:49

See, who doesn't make those mistakes if you're gonna be human, right? And growing, you know, you stepping out into occasional mud puddles is absolutely standard. I'm really fascinated, Brad, an observation that's coming to me The idea that you had to make a change, that you were, you know, on that road to perdition and you had to make a change and your action for that to facilitate that change was, you know, unaliving yourself, uh, you know, which is kind of a, what do they say, a permanent solution to a temporary problem. But of course it's not really temporary. It's overwhelming and you don't see anything else. What I find fascinating is as a result of your actions, you had to, you had, you lost the ability to, you know, to speak and to, you know, you had all of that identity reconstruction physically, which became a catalyst for that psychologically and emotionally. Yeah. You learned to listen when you physically were restricted in your speech and stuff like that. So how have you seen those dramatic and challenging physical things? How do you see them now as part of the journey to where you are?

Gratitude as a toolkit

John Milham (Host) · 22:57

Oh, it's a great question, John. Um, well, it's like a toolkit. I still do things that I get pretty disappointed in myself about. I still say some pretty horrible things, but then I get reminded of all the people that have done so many wonderful things for me. So, you know, right at the top of that list, gratitude is something that I've really learned to practice. You know, I was having a dark, dark day the other day and I went into the backyard here and I took a video of just how beautiful the garden is. And, you know, the flowers that were out, the lawns that I, you know, I'm going through lawn porn at the moment. And I sent that to my dad, you know, and then, you know, just to say, hey man, this is, this is where I live. And, and, you know, we've got so many wonderful things that we can eat here in the garden. And, and that, and that made me feel good about myself. It made me feel as though, you know, I mightn't be working full-time, but I'm able to sort of be a little bit more in the moment and appreciate things a lot better. Yeah, I still don't like talking to people a lot of the time. I still get that phone anxiety, but I always make a promise that I will call that person back. And if it's a close mate and he's ringing me and I say, hey man, I'm just with the black dog at the moment, I'll call you tomorrow. Do you know what I mean? But yeah, it's a toolkit of skills that I've been able to build up over the years. And I still have the same struggles, John. I still have, you know, I still struggle to sleep a lot of the time. I still have my chronic pain, but I'm being a little bit more proactive these days as opposed to, you know, feeling sorry for myself or why am I going through this? So, you know, and And how do I achieve that? A lot of the time I'll bring a mate that's having a shit of a time and just listen to his misery.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 24:56

Yeah, beautiful.

John Milham (Host) · 24:57

And sometimes I feel selfish doing that. I do, because even though he's saying, hey, man, I really appreciate your time, and I often say, mate, I'm getting more out of this than you are. But it grounds you, you know what I mean? It makes you sort of then go, well, you know, the pain might be bad and you haven't seen my son for, or had him up here for a visit in well over 12 months. But then I go, well, you know, I went 5, 6 years without talking to my daughter Charlize and, and the wonderful relationships and connection we've got is more powerful than that horrible despair and depression of not seeing my son. Um, we still talk by, by text message, but, but then I, you know, what I've built with my daughter is my, and, and what she's able to talk to me about. I don't think she, she can talk to many people about. And I can honestly say, if I was still in my marriage, I don't think I'd get that, have that connection with her. So yeah, man, it's, um, I try not to be as fast with my thoughts as I was, um, try not to revert everything back to me, even though I still do. But yeah, man, you know, I, I guess it's, uh, but look, we've— I'm forever evolving, you know. I'm, I'm Yeah, we, I'm going off a tangent here again, John, but no, mate, there's no tangents, mate. You know, yeah, Gary Stims, who's the chief inspector up here. Yeah, he comes on the show occasionally and he's, he's a really good guy, Gary. He does a lot in the community. He's an R U OK ambassador. He's doing something called Fortitude or something through the first responders. And I remember very clearly saying, it's kind of like sitting in front of the principal sometimes, you know. Comes in, he's very decorated, he's got all these, you know, you know, he's got more badges and stuff on him and looks like a Christmas tree. Sorry, Gaz. And I said, you know, I think the greatest thing in life is mistakes because, you know, I'll probably learn more from the mistakes. And he just looks at me quite kindly and says, not if we keep making the same ones over and over again, Bradley. Which he's right, you know, but I'll still do that, John, you know. I make the same mistakes. I make the, I'm softer on myself, you know, than I, than I used to be.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 27:11

Yeah. It's, it, it, you know, the, you know, Malcolm Gladwell talks about the 10,000 hours to mastery, right? Again, so the idea that, you know, I don't know that that's true, but it's, there's a definitely a need to perhaps repeat something over and over again until we actually work it out until we integrate the learning from it. What, what do you think in that sense of mistakes, what have your mistakes taught you that you're really grateful for now?

Mistakes as compass points

John Milham (Host) · 27:38

I'm thinking of a few of the mistakes I continue to make. They've helped me to be more creative with my thought or try different approaches. So, so let's say for example, you know, I'll talk about my father Peter. Sometimes I'd ring my dad and, you know, I, I'd say something and he, you could just immediately hear him shutting down like, oh, I'm not, I'm not ready for— I don't want to talk about this. And, um, you know, I'll call you tomorrow. Um, and then I'd get off the phone and I'd go, oh, fuck, I did it again. I, I was probably talking too fast. I, I wasn't listening to him so much. Um, you know, maybe I shouldn't have said that. So yeah, I would try different techniques. I'd try different approaches. Um, you know, it'd be the next time I'd call up and I'd ask him, I'd say, what would you do if you were in this situation? Um, how would you, you know, cope with, you know, or how do you think I should, I, I should talk to my son? Or should I just drop in and see him? You know, so I wasn't, I don't think I'm as much of an expert. Does that make, like, I, I used to think I was, I had all the, I used to think I had all the answers, whereas now I don't feel ashamed for not knowing something so simple that I, I'll just simply ask, you know, you said something to me before about transaction or whatever, you know, I don't even know what that is, John. Um, and I don't, I don't mind being wrong now. Um, yeah, and so like we went to Thailand, my father and I, and it was, you know, we had a couple of blows, a couple of run-ins, and I mean when we came back we got along okay Remember when we came back, it was the second day that I got back and I thought, you know, some of the things I did or said really wasn't on. So instead of closing off from the world, I put this email together, what I call my greatest apology. In everything that I said in this email, I just spoke about my actions and, and how that made me feel. And when I said that to you of when we were talking to the cab driver and you were telling him one thing and I was telling him the other. I really should have stayed out of that. It was, you know, and none of what I said was, hey, I wouldn't have done this if you didn't say that. But wow, man, that was, that was in the relationship with my father. That was 2019. That was a, a real massive turning point. Okay, now, you know, my old man's not a perfect fella by any sense, very successful, and he's a businessman, right? But being retired and, you know, he immediately rang me and said, mate, thank you. You know, I really didn't expect that. But Bradley, this is a, this is a huge, huge step for us. And we still have falling outs, but we're able to— I don't hold grudges anymore. I don't. Hate my dad or cut him off for, you know, for whatever. I mean, I'm just grateful I've got a dad. I've got a lot of mates that don't have their dad. So, you know, I still want to make sure I'm— my dad's pleased with who I am or proud of me as a son. And I think he is. I think he's more proud of me today than he has been for the 45 years before what's happened over the last 4 or 5 years, you know what I mean? It's been— so with, yeah, those mistakes, they're powerful, powerful things. For me to grow from, if I'm making sense, man.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 31:09

So I was really interested, that sense of acceptance, you know, that sense of ownership. You know, what do you think that gives you?

The apology that rebuilt a relationship

John Milham (Host) · 31:19

It gives me the chance to grow. It gives me the chance to be kinder to myself. It gives me the chance to sort of accept the fact that I am evolving and I'm willing to learn. Don't hate myself so much. I'm still very critical on myself. I've still got a long, long way to go. You know, I still get frustrated sometimes when I'm driving. I'm not a horn hitter or put my finger up at anyone, but you know, sometimes when I drive, I still get impatient.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 31:50

The commentary can get a little, you know, negative of other people's capacities. So yeah, I give So the, you know, the learning cauldron that is, you know, on the road, right? That's a massive opportunity to see how far you've come.

John Milham (Host) · 32:05

So yeah, I'll probably become a little bit more optimistic than pessimistic or negative. I think we all sort of, you know, through COVID was a horrible time of, you know, cause we were all isolated, weren't we? And, you know, there are horrible things you sort of see every day in social media or you read comments of things. I mean, one of my favorite things to do is read Laws and Locals in Facebook and some of the comments. I find it really entertaining. I'm not so judgmental now. You know, I see people making mistakes. I talk to people that are making the same mistake, and sometimes it's just being able to be there for that. But even though they're telling you the same thing 4 times over and they're not changing, you know, their habits, it's just been able to be there and listen better. That's been a huge thing for me. You and I often talk about something else. I've been able to accept a compliment.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 32:54

Yeah. Yeah.

John Milham (Host) · 32:56

So for, for me, I, I, it, it really quite made me anxious, compliments, because I didn't know if the compliment one was genuine. I didn't know if it was too sympathetic. And you know, I hate sympathy. I like empathy, but I don't like sympathy.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 33:11

So do you think that was triggering your lack of self-worth or your image and identity?

John Milham (Host) · 33:17

Yeah. Yeah. A lot of the time. And it's funny because you think, you know, oh hey, this person's saying something really, really nice about you. You know, we said goodbye to Bodhi last week and it was really nice. A lot of people got up and mentioned me and the work that we had been doing. But like following that, I had a lot, I've had probably 4 or 5 calls from people just checking in to see how I am. And 2 of those haven't called me once. They've called me, you know, like it was last Thursday. What are we? We're not even a week. And, and You know, I've had 3 or 4 calls from these guys where, you know, at first, or years ago, I would've thought, oh man, they think I'm gonna be, you know, really depressed, or, you know, I might be in a dark place or self-harm, but they're genuinely checking in on me to see how I'm going, to see how I'm coping. And I just haven't— I'm completely comfortable by saying, yeah, man, I'm really struggling at the moment. I'm struggling with this part of him not being here. You know, that hole that, you know, I'm missing, the ambiguity of not being able to have him. What's the future of my show going to be like? What's the future of my life? How am I going to be able to, you know, and I've been quite, I've been able to talk quite openly about that to you and, or to Gary. So I don't mind that, you know, it's still not comfortable. But I don't find it really uncomfortable. I don't find it something that I push away or just, I'll just say something to please them.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 34:50

Yeah, I'm really interested in that idea, right? Because, and just for the, a little bit of background. So Bodhi, your co-host and local psychotherapist and all around wizard and local, you know, local identity, greatly loved, was your co-host for 120 shows, right? So 5 years you were doing it together. Amazing effort. And he died a couple of weeks ago, just naturally, you know, passed away and, you know, unexpectedly so because he was the doyen of sort of vitality. So it's a, it was a big impact. And I'm fascinated because like describing, you know, that uncomfortable feeling around the grief and so on. Grief is just, is an emotion that's part of losing someone that you care about. Uh, but you know, you know, the society tends to pull away from expressing or even experiencing grief.

John Milham (Host) · 35:43

Yeah, of course. Like you avoid it at all costs.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 35:46

Yeah. And you are saying, well, it's uncomfortable, but it's not unendurable. And it seems like the why is more important than getting away from the discomfort.

John Milham (Host) · 35:56

Yeah, exactly. You know, my daughter said something to me when she was telling me about, I, I won't go into what it was, but it's a deep, deep personal thing for a young 21-year-old woman to go through. And then I immediately said, you know, I feel partly, if not mainly, responsible. And she immediately cut me off and said, Dad, this is not all about you. It's not always about you. And first of all, I love the fact that she felt comfortable enough to be that honest to me. Okay, so that wouldn't have been easy for her to do. And I just like, that's a skill that my daughter has. I go, wow, that's that's, that's a, that's a life asset to be able to be that honest. First of all, it wouldn't have been easier for her to say in the first place. But so how I handled or look at with Bodhi was he's a man that has gone to many, many corners, not just in this community, but worked with gangs over in New Zealand and, and men's group, palliative care. It just, it's so many areas. A man with many flaws, you know, been married 3 times and But yet he was such an amazing influence on people. And I said in my very brief speech, if ever there was an enlightened man, it's probably him. So it's probably a Buddhist thing. You know, I truly believe that, you know, he may have left this place, but he's gone to another realm where he's doing some more work. And that's probably the ideal purpose or strategy of life is to be able to do the best you can. You don't have to do it right and you don't have to be perfect. But if you can help others or give, I think that helps you in wherever we go next. That was my coping mechanism of dealing with Bodhi. And so I said to, I remember saying to his son Josh and Nanette, as hard as this is, what a life. What, I mean, what the, this, he's extremely fit, man, 74, 10 times stronger than me, but he really loved life. Like, he really loved listening to dark stories. And he— Matt Tonks would come in and play music, he'd get up and dance. And, you know, and I thought, what a great example, or what a fantastic time to celebrate rather than being sad. And I'm still sad. I had a moment last night where I came home, my flatmate, you know, she sees— used to see Bodie. First thing she said when I walked in the door was, geez, I miss Bodie. But it was, yeah, that's how I celebrated that. It, I, you know, and I'd say, am I avoiding it by, by going about it this way? Should I be sad?

How to hold grief without running

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 38:27

I should.

John Milham (Host) · 38:28

So, and I often, I came back to that question, John, what would Bodie be doing now? What would he do if, if it was me? And because he was a role model for me, he was a, he was a hero. He was like a second dad. He was like a mate. I didn't look at him as though he was 74. I looked at him like he was a 17-year-old hippie, really. But he had a wonderful, wonderful outlook on life. And, and, you know, I aspire to be like that, you know, if I get to 70, geez, I'd, if I'm half the man, if I'm half that, I'd be a very happy bloke, mate.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 38:59

I'd, I'd be happy, you know, with that much vitality tomorrow, let alone getting to 70.

John Milham (Host) · 39:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll take it. I'll take it.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 39:07

So beautifully expressed, mate, and, and a wonderful tribute, but this is an interview with you. So I'm wondering how you take that role model, that example that you've had exposure to. How do you think that's going to come out in you? What's your direction as a result of that exposure?

John Milham (Host) · 39:28

Yeah, well, I'm going to be really brutal here, Ben. It's nice to be thought of as a role model, but you know, there's many, many things in my life that I do that you shouldn't do, that if other people knew, it isn't good. Um, you know, like I, I'm able to talk about mates' kids, but I can't talk about mine. I don't know how to approach that situation where I'm at with my son. I'd like to be able to do it. I, I, I seek, but one of, instead of trying it for myself, I, I I seek answers. I approached you about it. You've spoken to my son. Yeah, I mean, it's— I should be, you know, sometimes I'll say something. I went out to dinner with Jeff Stoddart and conversation came up. It was about that Higgins, you know, Lerman or whatever thing, and I expressed my opinion and I was so passionate about it because, you know, at the time I'm dealing with you know, 2 or 3 blokes are going through a bit of a hard time and no one knows what happens there, right? But you know, I'd, I'd had, and I'm not a big drinker, I'd had 3 beers or 3 ciders at the time and I spoke over people. I, I interrupted and in the car coming home, you know, I went to the house of mirrors, you know, had a bit of a long hard look at myself and I was really, really dark, really hard on myself. So the next day I called Jeff, to apologize. I, it was that bad. I felt, okay, I'm never gonna be invited again. He's, I've lost a mate here. I've upset his wife. I've upset the, his guests. But I said to him, I said, mate, I'm, I'm, I'm really sorry, um, for the way I spoke. It was just so incredibly rude and I was just so bitterly disappointed with myself. The old me, I'd still be putting myself through that, but because I was able to, you know, face up to that really bad— it was the furthest thing from what a role model would have been. I was able to forgive myself a lot easier, you know. And since then, I've caught up with Jeff on a number of occasions. I saw his wife. We sat with each other on Thursday after Bodie's, you know, at his wake. Um, you know, I'd normally see Nera Lee, Jeff's wife, and I'd sit as far away as I could to avoid it, to not have to deal with it. But I just went straight up to her. Neroleen and put my arms out and gave her a hug. And, you know, even though I'd apologized, I hadn't apologized in person. And, and, you know, she was very forgiving. And yeah, I, I look, I guess he's a bit of role model in that.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 42:02

Well, I'm, I'm interested in how you're, you're, the way you define role model is obviously need to be perfect.

John Milham (Host) · 42:09

Well, don't you?

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 42:10

Yeah, from my point of view, the role model is essential, uh, to learn how to live. The archetype, right? We all know what a perfect archetype is, like it's the Superman, the King, the Prince, the Lover, or the Magician, right? I can aspire to be an archetype, but a role model is someone who actually gives me useful information.

John Milham (Host) · 42:30

Right. Yeah.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 42:31

Okay. So the power of an apology is maybe more important than not making a, being a perfect guest at a dinner party is.

John Milham (Host) · 42:42

No, I think you're probably right. You're probably spot on.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 42:45

So maybe you're a role model for millions, mate, for who, who go to dinner parties and make, make—

John Milham (Host) · 42:52

how not to behave—

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 42:54

make dicks of themselves, right?

John Milham (Host) · 42:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you're right, man. You know, when you look at it that way, geez, I'd still feel that the shame is still the same, like, from that, like, the level of shame or the self-hatred that you get from that is still the same. It's just that it's processed quicker. It's just that I'm able to sort of sit there, go through it, talk to myself. And then, but I talk to myself in a different language as opposed to you useless in, you know, what I say from the mirror, as opposed to, hey man, this is, this was pretty bad. There's some positives in it. Your passion towards it. There was nothing wrong with how you were being passionate about it. It was just the way you delivered it. Was wrong. Well, I'd never normally put that to myself. It wouldn't matter. It just never would have even crossed my mind. So is that being kinder to myself? Is it being softer on that approach? Yes, but it's still the same level of shame, uh, initially. It's just that it's easier to process now.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 43:59

I think that's a courageous choice for a bloke, right? Yeah, what you're doing, you know, the idea of backing away from the the immediate response, right? So, and then working through the, you know, the consequences and accepting them and then, you know, reframing and choosing another response. I think that's outstanding.

John Milham (Host) · 44:18

Yeah, I appreciate the fact that I can be kinder. That's an amazing thing to, but you know, immediately when I say that I appreciate the fact that I can be kinder, I go, fuck, I wish I, I wish I'd done this 10 years ago, you know. And now I'm going back to the guilt of, you know, oh, what if I, you know, I, I, the regrets I still have. That's, that's an area I really need to still work on, man. It's, I don't try and compare myself to others, I just compare myself to myself, um, a lot of the time.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 44:51

Um, but geez, that's an area I still, which is very much the hardest, uh, you know, opponent you'll ever face, right? Yeah, sure. I find that awesome, right? So you've got the challenges of the future, right? You've just described some of the things you want to work on. What are you looking forward to?

What's next

John Milham (Host) · 45:11

What am I looking forward to in my life at the moment? I'm always looking forward to a visit from my daughter. That's something that I really, really love. I'm doing a course, starting this course next week, Cert IV in mental health. You know, you, you've said to me you've had issues with trying to complete things. Um, you know, that's, that's something that I'd be very proud of myself if I could start and be able to complete this. I look forward to maybe one day being able to get back and play golf. Um, I look forward to going down and seeing my dad. Um, even though sometimes I can only do 2 or 3 days with him, I might do a week. We could push ourselves. I have a lot more to look forward to now than, than what I did. I'm going to look at a— watch a band. I'm watching a mate of mine play at Marrickville this week. I'm really, really looking forward to that. I love my music. And I'm looking forward to catching up with a mate of mine who's had a horrible time. You know, I'm able to have really strong, honest conversations with Wes, you know. You know, when he used to sort of— people would come up to me and they'd they'd say, oh, you know, how you going? And I go, my response would be, oh yeah, you know, really well. I've just been away camping. I just bought a car or got a caravan now and I get to do this. And it's almost like it's a mask, you know, like, but now, you know, this guy, he said he tuned into the radio show or whatever else. And when we went to Bodhi's wake, I said, mate, can you carry this esky for us? Because it's drinks for everyone to have and was ice and I said, I just can't carry much at the moment. And he goes, oh, what'd you do to yourself? I said, do you wanna know?

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 46:49

He goes, yeah.

John Milham (Host) · 46:50

I said, I hung myself. And it all got his face. I said, well, you did ask, you know.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 46:56

Yeah.

John Milham (Host) · 46:57

It's like Matt Tong said to me once, he goes, mate, you know what I love about your honesty? It's so brutal. It's confronting. So I don't, I try not to talk about, you know, my successes or the materialistic things or People say, how you going? I go, fuck, man, I'm really struggling today. Like, I am. I've been in a lot of pain. I've probably only slept 3 hours last night. But geez, I feel better after talking to you about it or just getting that off my chest. And so I look forward to getting out of pain, John. But I really like— looked forward to, um, you know, the guys I've got coming on the show next week. They're, you know, they do— they've created a walk and talk down there at Springwood and they're getting like, this is the Blue Mountains, they're spring, they're getting 200 people. How are they doing that? What are they talking about? You know, I, I get on Facebook, I see it was your birthday on the 25th. Happy birthday. You know, and you put together a, it's your birthday, shouldn't people be putting a barbecue on for you? Not you putting a barbecue on for other people. I love that shit, man. Like I do. It's, it's like, well, fuck it. Who does that? So I look forward to, you know, stuff like that.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 48:09

That's beautiful, brother. Well, I look forward to seeing the difference you're making in the world, mate, and the ripples of your journey changing the journeys of others, right? Because the ripples are powerful. And it's been amazing. Thank you so much for sharing a piece of what, of who you are and what you've done and where you've come from and where you are. So beautiful. It's been great, brother.

John Milham (Host) · 48:34

Yeah, cheers, man. Well, we do this again in 12 months' time and we can sort of— would that be absolutely— hopefully I'm a little bit better at being able to articulate, you know, that's another thing I'd like to work on is being able to articulate exactly, you know, am I able to bring it back to what we're initially talking about? You know, that's, that's one of the things I'm very good at.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 48:52

Well, I reckon you do a great job, mate. So I look forward to hearing the ongoing stories and, and the next chapter looks very good for from my perspective. So, oh, me and the Dalai Lama are very impressed, brother.

John Milham (Host) · 49:04

So, all right, mate, I'll put that on the calendar right here. All right, fabulous.

Bradley Spillane (Guest) · 49:12

Yeah, absolutely. So let's do this. Um, thank you, mate, from Katsugi Heroes. Uh, much appreciated. And, uh, uh, we'll put this together and put it out in the world, and we'll con— uh, I'll look forward to you continuing to make a difference. Thanks, brother.

John Milham (Host) · 49:29

Thanks, John. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Kintsugi Heroes. Please like and share the show to your friends so we can get this out to even more people. If you have a story you'd like to share with us, please reach out using the contact details below. And join us next week for our next hero's story. Until then, keep being you, and remember that that we are all heroes in our own unique way. Only when it's broken, only when it's broken, when it hits you in the middle of the night and the truth burns so bright, only when it's broken. Only when it's broken. Take pride in those cries, it's only for tonight, and then you rise. Only when you're broken. Only when you're broken. Only when you're broken. Okay.

Shining Light on Men's Mental Health through Advocacy with Bradley Spillane

Overview

Chapters

Content warning

A decade of lived experience

The spiral before the first attempt

Two attempts and a hospital bed

Anger as a mask for grief

A mate, a radio show, a light bulb moment

Learning to listen when he couldn't speak

Gratitude as a toolkit

Mistakes as compass points

The apology that rebuilt a relationship

How to hold grief without running

What's next

In Bradley Spillane's words

Bradley Spillane, today

Common questions

Is this a true story?

What organisation produced this?

What did Bradley Spillane learn from this experience?

What would Bradley Spillane want listeners to know?

What helped Bradley Spillane most along the way?

What would Bradley Spillane tell someone going through something similar?

Transcript

Content warning

Support

From the Corporate World to Finding Purpose in the Global Wellbeing Community with Troy Flower

Grief, Courage & Starting Again | Kevin Holloway on Loss, Identity & Men's Mental Health

From Trauma to Healing Through Compassion and Honesty with Darren Wagner

What topics does this episode cover?

A decade of lived experience

The spiral before the first attempt

Two attempts and a hospital bed

Anger as a mask for grief

A mate, a radio show, a light bulb moment

Learning to listen when he couldn't speak

Gratitude as a toolkit

Mistakes as compass points

The apology that rebuilt a relationship

How to hold grief without running

What's next