Nan Hauser
A childhood brain injury and a whale's deliberate act of protection transformed a nurse into an ocean guardian fighting for whale survival.
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Nan Hauser grew up on a Quaker wildlife preserve in Pennsylvania, where her grandmother asked her each day what she had done to make herself and the world better. At 22 months old, Nan fell 25 feet headfirst onto pavement, sustaining a severe brain injury, fractured vertebrae, and epilepsy. She refused to let it stop her. She became a nurse, then a midwife, delivering babies in remote islands while also running whale stranding organisations. When her children grew up, she finally pursued what had called to her since childhood: understanding what whales do beneath the surface. For three decades, she has studied humpback whales in the Cook Islands and Bermuda, discovering that they pass song phrases around the world using celestial navigation, following the Earth's axis with precision that never deviates by more than a single degree.
In 2008, while filming underwater, a male humpback whale pushed Nan around for ten and a half minutes, sheltering her under his pectoral fin from a tiger shark that had entered the water. He delivered her safely back to the boat. A year and fifteen days later, that same whale returned, recognised her, and met her eye with what she describes as a loving gaze. That encounter transformed her understanding of whales as aware, compassionate beings capable of deliberate choice, and it became a promise: to be their voice and protect them.
Today, Nan fights daily against krill trawling, ship strikes, shark nets, noise pollution, and climate change, all of which threaten the whales she has devoted her life to. Some days the sadness of seeing protections reversed and the ocean degraded defeats her. But she keeps going. Her message is simple: use your voice, go outside, reconnect with nature, and remember that everything we do has an impact on the planet.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses grief & loss, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au • GriefLine: 1300 845 745 · griefline.org.au
“That whale taught me more than any textbook ever could, and that we are not separate from nature. We are a very big part of it. And that we find kindness in places that can't always be understood.”
“Everything had changed when I came back up to the surface. The ocean wasn't just my field of study or even my passion. It was something sacred. It was sacred, alive, and compassionate.”
“Things that you fight for all your life and then something comes along and takes it away, destroys it. But I still I'll never stop fighting.”
The hero, today
Nan's childhood on a Quaker preserve and her grandmother's daily question about what she did for the world instilled in her a lifelong sense of responsibility to nature and others. The severe brain injury Nan sustained at 22 months and the epilepsy that followed taught her to push herself, stay curious, and refuse to let a diagnosis define what she could do. Humpback whales have distinct personalities and a sense of humor; Nan has observed them deliberately splash boats, act out like frustrated toddlers, and even appear to recognize individual humans across years. The whale who held Nan underwater for ten and a half minutes, protecting her from a tiger shark and delivering her safely to the boat, taught her that whales are aware, compassionate beings capable of deliberate choice and that we are not separate from nature. Industrial krill trawling, climate change, shark nets, ship strikes, and noise pollution are actively destroying whales now; the threat is not historical but urgent and ongoing, even as humpback populations appear to recover in some regions. Small, concrete choices about consumption, transportation, and packaging matter because everything we do has an impact on the planet, and if enough people change their behavior, the difference will be measurable.
Yes. Nan Hauser is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Nan's childhood on a Quaker preserve and her grandmother's daily question about what she did for the world instilled in her a lifelong sense of responsibility to nature and others.
The severe brain injury Nan sustained at 22 months and the epilepsy that followed taught her to push herself, stay curious, and refuse to let a diagnosis define what she could do.
Humpback whales have distinct personalities and a sense of humor; Nan has observed them deliberately splash boats, act out like frustrated toddlers, and even appear to recognize individual humans across years.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 00:02
Welcome to another episode of Animals and Us, where we explore and honor the awesomeness of animals and our relationships with them. Today we meet a remarkable woman whose life has been intertwined with whales in the most extraordinary ways. From Bermuda and a Quaker reserve in Pennsylvania to the turquoise waters of the Cook Islands, Nan Hauser has devoted her life to understanding, protecting, and connecting with these magnificent animals. And one of them even saved her life. Hello, Nan, and welcome to Animals and Us.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 00:48
Hello, Natalie. Thank you for, um, including me in your podcast.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 00:53
Oh, my absolute pleasure. Nan, let's start with your childhood. You had a fascinating childhood growing up both in Pennsylvania and Bermuda. Can you paint a picture of your childhood for us?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 01:06
Oh goodness, well, in Pennsylvania I lived on a Quaker wildlife preserve, so I had a lot of animals around me all the time. Had an amazing family and very extended with all the relatives pretty much. My grandmother was a lover of nature, so at the end of the day she would have all of us take out a piece of paper and write down what we did to make ourselves better people for the day, and what we did that day to make the world a better place for everyone. So I guess that kind of instilled some kind of responsibility in me. And in Bermuda, it was fabulous. It's where I got interested in whales. I would watch them from the shore of Marley Beach, and I always wondered what they were doing underwater when you couldn't see them anymore. It was just a love affair with whales and dolphins and infatuation.
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The whale who held Nan underwater for ten and a half minutes, protecting her from a tiger shark and delivering her safely to the boat, taught her that whales are aware, compassionate beings capable of deliberate choice and that we are not separate from nature.
This conversation includes a childhood shaped by curiosity and service, the fall that changed how her brain works, from nursing to the ocean, the scientist who listens to whale song, the calf who circles the boat and the whale who pushed her toward the boat.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 02:07
Yeah, yeah. And your grandmother sounds extraordinary. What sort of influence did she have on your life?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 02:15
She had huge influence on my life. And it was very long too, because not only did I see her just about every day of my younger life, but she lived to be 103. So she was still going strong Protecting nature and pushing knowledge, building nature centers and being a good influence on the world.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 02:41
Yes, yes. And when you were a young child, you had a serious accident. Can you tell us about that accident and how that influenced you?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 02:52
I fell 25 feet headfirst on the pavement of a back porch when I was 22 months old. And I was unconscious for a long time. Nobody remembers exactly how long, but I had a severe brain injury, obviously, and broke, fractured 6 vertebrae in my neck. But back then, you know, you called the old country doctor who would come and sit by your bedside until you gained consciousness. So I have epilepsy from that. And I guess I never really knew that I was somehow learning differently or having to use my brain in a different way to learn. But I always pushed myself, which I guess is good. And it's been a struggle sometimes, but I'm so curious. I love to learn. And so I just keep getting more and more interested. I should say more and more curious. I've got that curious gene in me, just like all my brothers and sisters and parents and grandparents.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 03:58
Right.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 03:58
Yes. It's definitely affected my life though. I don't let it affect it too much. I mean, I still go underwater and I'm the captain of the boat and I actually have a Coast Guard captain's license and I'm just used to once in a while having seizures and then get up and keep going.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 04:19
Yeah. So you didn't let it stop you from doing what you love.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 04:23
No.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 04:24
Good. Um, you grew up and you became a nurse. What drew you to nursing in your early career?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 04:34
I think the taking care of people. Um, I first got a degree in art, which I loved, but I couldn't really use that to, to survive. And so I started nursing One of the really interesting things about being a Quaker is that it's about sincerity, simplicity, and service. And that service is helping each other, helping animals, helping to prevent pain or injury, and just— it's a big thing about taking care of people, about that whole service. So I guess that was part of it.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 05:19
Yeah. And then nursing is very different from whale research. What triggered that transition?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 05:27
I always wanted to study whales and dolphins, and it was always there in the back of my mind. And so after I had all my children, I said, okay. That's it. I'm going to study whales and find out what they're doing underwater when you can't see them. And I still have a nurse's license. I still do a lot of bush medicine and I'm a midwife. So I deliver babies in the islands and out in the bush. And it's actually, it's not that different. I went from emergency and critical care of humans to Emergency and Critical Care of Whales and Dolphins. And that was a good transition, being a member of the stranding organizations and then actually running them. And I was asked to make a film about dolphins, and I chose the Bahamas. And that's when it all started. I grabbed my own camera when digital video came out. And started filming underwater, and one thing led to another.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 06:41
And did your experience as a midwife and a nurse, did that help— does it help your research with whales at all?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 06:49
Oh, very much so, yes, very, very much so. Just the methodology, studying medicine and studying science, the seriousness of it, You can't do half a job. You have to do an absolutely perfect job. And they're both very accurate sciences. And I actually taught nursing for a while and learned a lot about just science. And so studying the animals, they kind of crisscross. I know it doesn't seem like they would be so related, but they really are. And so they, that's why I still do both. They fit together. I've actually delivered a baby when I was covered with a dead whale. So I was cutting up the dead whale when I got the call. Wow.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 07:47
So you do the nursing still in the Cook Islands, is that right?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 07:50
Yeah.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 07:51
Right. Right. Can you tell us about your life as a whale researcher? What do you actually do? I think you're based in the Cook Islands.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 08:03
Mm-hmm. I'm also, actually it's kind of fun to go full circle, I'm doing a project in Bermuda also right now. So, at first I didn't know that I would be so serious about the science. I wanted to be more of an educator. I wanted to be a voice for the whales. And yet one thing led to another and people said, well, wait, you just saw this behavior that no one's seen before. You should write it up. You know, it needs to be published. If you don't publish it, then people don't really know about it. And so I had to put my academic hat back on. And I'm glad I did because it has led to a PhD and a lot of publications and a lot of new stuff. That's, I think, with satellite tagging and migratory pathways and conservation initiatives and genetics and song behavior, all of that population abundance. I do everything because I'm so curious about everything. And it's important for the animals to publish this science and to actually be a voice. Jump up and down and scream and shout all you want, and there is definitely a place for that, or you can fight with science. So yes, with facts. Yeah, yeah.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 09:25
So Nan, can you tell us about the whales that you research in both places, but Bermuda and, and the Cook Islands?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 09:32
Okay, well, it's interesting because we are a corridor in the Cook Islands. We're not a true breeding ground, although they do mate and give birth there, but they don't stay there for very long. They pass through and then they go through Oceania and other areas like New Caledonia and French Polynesia and Tonga are true breeding grounds. And so what I realized that with my research, I remembered that Bermuda is also a corridor, not a true breeding ground. They're passing on the way back up. From the breeding grounds. And so I wanted to see, first of all, if any song was similar. Now that gets a little more complicated than that because songs are made up of phrases. And we found that they're actually passing phrases of the songs from west to east, from Western Australia to Eastern Australia to New Caledonia. Tonga, Samoa, Cook Islands, French Polynesia, and now we know to South America. And yet they don't cross the equator, except once in a while we'll see some whales cross around Costa Rica where one season is ending, the other season is beginning, but they don't really cross the equator. I wanted to see if this song is similar at all to the song in Bermuda. And, you know, it changes every year. So it's just fascinating. The males sing, only the males sing. The females vocalize, but the males sing these songs. And to know that they're actually passing these phrases around the world, it's— you could only wonder if it's only in the Southern Hemisphere, a particular song or phrase, and are they singing any of the same songs or phrases in the Northern Hemisphere? So Bermuda's in the Northern Hemisphere, it's the North Atlantic, and Rarotonga and the Cook Islands is in the Southern Hemisphere and it's the South Pacific. So it's pretty cool. And I named it The Sound of Science, which is kind of fun. And then it got into genetics and things like that. So that's one of the projects I'm doing right now.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 12:00
Fascinating. What do you think is the purpose of their songs? Is it a mating call?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 12:09
Well, Roger Payne theorized in 1972 that the males sing to attract females. And yeah, I totally believe that. But there are many, many reasons I think that they sing. I always ask audiences, been asking audiences for 35 years, "Why do you think whales sing?" And I've got all kinds of answers. And nobody really knows for sure. But it's, for me, to think that they're passing these phrases, there's got to be something much more complex than we can even think of. I mean, we try to anthropomorphize these animals and make them like us and try to figure out what it would mean to us. But, oh, it's just, it's a mystery. But I think, and this might sound crazy, and I probably wouldn't have said this about a month ago, but I say it now that because I have this wonderful woman, young girl, who is taking this song and breaking up, actually breaking up the phrases, not just taking the phrases, breaking up the phrases and putting it through AI. To see similarities. So I'm very interested in what she's doing right now. We're working on a project together. Not that I really like the whole idea of AI. I'm old school. But it's very helpful for this. Yes.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 13:31
Definitely. Yeah, it's such a fascinating subject because there's so much mystery still around the behavior and songs.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 13:37
Well, I'll tell you something funny about Roger Payne's theory about Females, you know, singing to impress the females. Well, the females don't really swim up to them. They just kind of pass by and go, "Oh, oh, well, that's cool. He's a good singer. You know, my lungs are bigger. I can sing a more beautiful song. I can hold my breath longer. I'm going to sing here." And they compete with each other, the males do. But we don't have the females swim up to the males. But you do in Australia. Right, well, well, I know, what about that?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 14:14
Fascinating. Nan, what are some other quirky or amazing facts about whales that you've discovered with all your decades, decades of research?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 14:24
So many. I think the one that really blows my mind the, the most is their whole migration, navigation And when we started satellite tagging whales and watched where they were going and how we were going, we thought that the whole Argos satellite system must be a bit wonky because they were making these funny, like really angled turns. And looking at it more closely, we found that they're following these linear constant course segments. And they're not deviating. I mean, they won't even deviate by a degree. If I put my boat in front of them when they're leaving Rarotonga, they'll go under my boat. And so they can be very accurate within that 1 degree. And they follow these until the declination and the inclination of the moon and gravity and the sun, and they make this angled turn at 23.439 degrees. And multiples of that. And if you go back to your childhood, you might remember that is the Earth's axis. It's the position between the sun and the moon. So they're using this celestial navigation and it's perfect. And we don't know how, whether it's in the cells, whether where the magnetite exactly is. And yeah, fascinating. That they are so good at navigation. And, you know, of course they make mistakes, and there are some areas where the magnetic pull is crazy, so they get lost sometimes and they strand sometimes. But to swim as far as they go— I mean, in a lifetime they swim to the moon and back, and some people say maybe even twice.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 16:24
Hmm. Let's talk about the strandings, Nan. What do you— how do you make sense of the strandings? Is human intervention a part of it? That our human intervention disturbs their natural tracking systems?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 16:41
Absolutely. It's hard to know exactly I mean, noise pollution obviously really affects them. And especially when mid-frequency sonar, the 242 decibels at 53 Charlie, that really affects whales, especially the deep diving whales like beaked whales. And so actually we're talking about in the Cook Islands, we are creating what we're calling To'ora, we call it a whale raui. And raui is when you close an area in the lagoon for a while to make sure that everything stays healthy and sustainable. And now we want to create an offshore raui using the satellite tagging, because now we know where they go. And if we can prevent fishing, if we can prevent ship strikes, if we can prevent noise, then they have a much better chance of making a successful migration.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 17:51
Nan, what are the main threats facing whales at the moment, you know, globally? Because I think there's a lot of— well, certainly I and a lot of Australians have this sense that whales are saved now, that the harpooning, the hunting, is over, thankfully. And population— the humpback populations are growing, so there's nothing to worry about anymore. But is that the case, or are whales still at risk? You've already touched on some.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 18:19
Well, yeah, they're still at risk, but in, in Australia, you've got a really good success story going on there with your whales. They are increasing in numbers, and especially calves, and that's so important. But our whales did not recover like your whales did. And a lot of that has to do with the illegal Soviet whaling that went on from 1947 to the late '70s. I mean, they killed millions of whales. So we haven't recovered yet.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 18:57
And what's going on in the Middle East with whales?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 19:00
Oh, there's a population in Oman And there are very few left, actually. I don't know what the exact number is today, but they're going to become extinct, I'm sure, that population. And it's interesting that they don't migrate anymore. They just stay in that area. But it's so sad. It's kind of like the vaquita in Mexico. We only have 10 left, although I got a post today that someone saw a calf, so we might have 11.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 19:34
Gosh. So it's mainly humpback whales that you research, and your PhD is based on humpback whales. Can you tell us a little bit about your research, your PhD?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 19:46
Yes, and it was hard for me because I'm so interested in absolutely everything. And so I don't want to just to population abundance or whatever. So I— well, the paper itself I call Endangered Humpback Whales of the Cook Islands: Long-Term Monitoring, Migratory Connectivity, and Conservation Pathways in Oceania. And it's about where our whales travel, where we have resighted them before, whether it be through genetics or photographs Or, well, Happy Whale. I should talk about Happy Whale because Happy Whale has made it all so much more interesting. Happy Whale is a website where this wonderful friend has started a site where everybody around the world can send their tail flukes in of humpback whales because that's how we ID them. On the ventral side of their tail fluke. So now we know even more. So that's what my paper is about. A lot of photo ID and then using Happy Whale to make matches, which has been phenomenal. And population abundance and depth of mothers and calves and singers and how many whales and how much effort and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, but I have written other papers on other species, which, because I'm fascinated by them all, but humpbacks are just really acrobatic and entertaining and fun.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 21:31
Yes, yes, and engaging. I imagine you— do you find them engaging?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 21:37
Oh my God, yes, they have incredible personalities actually.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 21:42
When we previously spoke, you mentioned that you've observed a sense of humour.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 21:45
Can you tell us about that?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 21:47
Whales' sense of humour.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 21:49
Yep, they certainly do. At least humpbacks certainly have a sense of humour. They kind of goof on you once in a while. If I'm underwater, and especially the juvenile males, when they swim past you, they will take their tail and phew. And there was a time, oh gosh, this was this calf named Hawa. She was a newborn calf and her mom didn't want her to be around us, but she was very tired. The mother would go down and sleep for a good 20 minutes and Hawa had to come up more often to take a breath because their lungs are much smaller. And so she'd come up and circle the boat and circle the boat and look at us and keep looking at the boat and then She'd go back down and then she'd come back up again. But if mom woke up and she came up to the calf, it was just like, "Oh no, I'm in trouble. I'm in trouble." And she'd start acting out and showing off and doing all kinds of things that a toddler would do.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 22:52
Yeah. It's fun. Yeah. Gorgeous.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 22:56
Yeah. And every once in a while, you also get a big splash. They're traveling alongside with you. I let them follow me. I don't really follow them. They come alongside me and then they'll just once in a while take their tail fluke and turn to you.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 23:13
Right. And then you mentioned that they sometimes bump your boat. Yes. Wow. I haven't experienced that before.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 23:22
Oh my gosh. It was 1999, I think. And This whale, it was a mother calf and escort, although I didn't know it was the mother at the time. She approaches the boat. It was a fiberglass boat. It was 22 feet long, but it was pretty heavy. It was from Nova Scotia, but I had it in the Cook Islands. And she comes and she hits the boat, lifts us up like this. We literally slide down her back. It's all on film. Slide down her back. And I was sitting on the top and almost fell off. And then she twists around and comes back again and went underneath the boat and then lifts up her tail and it was pure black. And we don't really have pure black flukes. It's very rare. We do in the Northern Hemisphere, but not in the Southern Hemisphere. They're very white with, and some have black and white on them. And we kind of went, "Oh!" And I was so curious about it. So just let her calm down a little bit, slipped in the water, and it was amazing what she did. You know, anybody, well, you'd think any species would be a little bit angry and she wasn't. She basically said, "Okay, will you babysit for my calf while I go have sex with this male?" And she left the calf right there. She left the calf with us and she went off for like 10 minutes. You could see her splashing away about a kilometer away. And then she came back and then she went off again. And I felt like, okay, she just wants me to babysit. The calf was acting out a bit and had some gastroesophageal reflux and was vomiting a little. Milk and so unpredictable. Their behavior is really interesting.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 25:24
Gosh. So do you think the bumping of your boat was aggression or just she wanted your attention for your babysitting role?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 25:32
I think she was pissed. I think she was a frustrated woman that was tired of her baby because the baby was actually crying. The baby has this incredible. And she goes— So the vocalization is fabulous. And I really, I think she just was frustrated and she was like, oh God, is this another male? What is this? What's happening? I mean, the bottom of our boat does kind of look like the belly of a whale.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 26:09
Yes, yes, yes. Gosh, Nan, you must have so many amazing memories swimming and being on boats with whales. Can you please take us back to that unforgettable day that people all over the world ask you about? The day a whale saved your life.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 26:29
The day that, if I didn't have a GoPro in my hand, I probably would not even believe happened. We were making a film and the director needed more footage of me underwater with whales. I said, "Okay." I don't touch the whales unless they're sick. And like I said, I don't follow them or chase. I hate that word, chase. I let them come to me. And so I'm in the water, there are two whales, and one of them looks up at me and then just started coming right for me. And didn't stop and kept coming for me. So I put my hand out because he was about to ram into me and he flipped me onto his head. And I'm on his head and I've got a snorkel and mask and so I can't stay down too long. I mean, I can stay down. I was a good freediver in the old days. I'm not so much anymore. Next thing I know, I'm on his chin and he's trying to tuck me under his pectoral fin. I'm sliding down his back. He's pushing me around with his whole body. He comes around again, looks me eye to eye. His eye was huge. He had his eye— when whales get excited, we call it eye widening, and they open their eyes like this and you can see the whites of their eyes. And he was just looking at me like he's "Stupid human. What? Just, you know, I'm trying to protect you." But of course, I had no idea what was happening. And so I couldn't take my eyes off him, which you don't because he could hit you with any part of his body and you'd break bones and rupture organs. And so this went on. It was the longest 10 and a half minutes in my life. And around minute 7, I looked away for a second at the other whale who was kind of swishing her tail around and slapping it. And there was what I thought was another species of whale there. And lo and behold, it started coming towards me and it was swimming like this instead of like this. So that's when I realized it was a tiger shark. It's just a really big tiger shark. And then I got— I mean, I was not really that comfortable with this whale pushing me around anyway and trying to hold me under his pectoral fin. I can't say that I was that brave, but I wasn't panicked. And I've been around animals enough to know that you don't show fear. I'm sure he could see my heart beating hard. And I just kept thinking about my grandchildren. I always felt like, yeah, I'd probably die with a whale, but I kept thinking, "Nah, I really want to be with my grandchildren." I've got 9 of them and they're really important to me. So I just went with it. And after I saw the shark, yes, I screamed at the top of the water, "There's a great big tiger shark right there!" And the whale just came and put me back on his head and pushed me to the boat and then curved his body around so I could get up on the back. And the whole thing, I guess I was kind of in shock because I started laughing. And then I started crying. So it was one of those. So when I was in the water and he was pushing me around, I wasn't a human anymore, just a human in the sea. I was a fragile being. And I was being shielded by this huge whale. And he was trying to be gentle, but how gentle can you be when you're 45,000 pounds or something? But everything was so deliberate with him. And he was enormous. I mean, his head and his body is— he even lifted me up on the pectoral fin. And so again, I kept looking in his eye and it was wide, but there was a calmness too. It was ancient. It was just a feeling of ancient calmness and just Her eye, or his eye, it was a male, met mine and I realized that that whale was totally aware. I think they just know things that we don't know. And yes, I was scared, but in that suspended moment, the fear and the awe became one and the same. And so Everything had changed when I came back up to the surface. The ocean wasn't just my field of study or even my passion. It was something sacred. It was sacred, alive, and compassionate. And I can honestly say that whale taught me more than any textbook ever could, and that we are not separate from nature. Are a very big part of it. And that we find kindness in places that can't always be understood. So from that day, I felt like my devotion to protect whales in the ocean, um, it became not just my work and my passion, but it became a promise. It became a promise that I have made to be a voice and to protect the whales and life in the ocean. And I don't know, the whale gave me hope. And in this crazy world that we live in, any kind of hope right now is very important.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 32:29
Yeah, we certainly need reasons for hope.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 32:32
Yeah.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 32:33
Nan, thank you for sharing that amazing story. Would you say that the experience, would you describe it as being spiritual?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 32:41
Absolutely. I mean, I watch it every once in a while and I go, what? What? And I try to go back to it and And then it just— and then that it came back in all these years. And he came back a year and 15— a year, what was it? A year and 15 days later, he came back. We've only had 11 whales come back in 28 years of research that we know of. And I mean, our site fidelity is really low. He came back and he came to the boat and he looked at me and I looked at him and wow, I slipped right in and it was a very nice reunion.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 33:30
I bet. Oh my heart just— So you think he recognized you?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 33:35
Oh, he totally recognized me. He didn't even look at anybody else on the boat.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 33:39
Wow.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 33:40
He came to the side of the boat and stared at me and this time He didn't have that great big panic eye. He just had this loving eye. And then he put me on his pec fin at the surface of the water and I just laid on it hugging him. At first I tried to hug his face, but that was impossible. And so I was hugging him on his pec fin. And oh, I got goosebumps even talking about it. I mean, come on, I'm a scientist. I'm not the— It's so funny because people give me all kinds of grief. Oh yeah, you're the ooey ooey woman. I'm like, no, I'm not. I just happen to have this ooey ooey experience.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 34:29
Love. And love. Yeah.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 34:31
And love.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 34:32
Deep loving experience.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 34:34
Unconditional love.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 34:35
Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. So that experience strengthened your conviction to and your commitment to the whale conservation.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 34:50
Absolutely. I mean, how could it not?
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 34:52
Yeah, yeah.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 34:54
Change so many things.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 34:56
Yeah. Then earlier in the conversation, you talked about some of the threats facing whales still today. What would be some actions that you would— some practical actions that people in the audience can take to help whale conservation?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 35:15
I think that we all need to play a part. And if we do, we really can make a difference. And I know it seems useless when we say, "Oh, recycle, reuse, and don't drive here and don't drive there." But every little tiny bit makes a difference. And I think, well, for me, for myself, it's hard. And when you have to get somewhere and you have to get on an airplane, you feel totally irresponsible. But there are good ways to live and still have this incredible experience of life. And so all my clothes, all my things are from Goodwill or thrift shops, op shops. I don't like to buy new things, not because I'm cheap, because I just don't like to know that I'm buying something that's going to end up in a landfill. I just repurpose it or give it away. I'm always putting stuff at the end of my driveway when it's time to go to someone else. And I think that's really important. And of course, carpooling, using as little fuel as we can, using solar panels that I just put on the roof. There's so many important things that we can change our lives and it's no big deal. Food, stop wasting food. Stop buying your food in plastic. Try to pick up where, you know, there are some people that just don't get it and they're going to pollute the ocean and they're going to dump their rubbish. And I just pick it up. I don't even get angry anymore. I just pick it up and throw it in the back of my truck and dispose of it properly. There's a big responsibility and for all of us, not just some of us, all of us.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 37:07
Sorry, on that subject of food consumption or overconsumption, in a previous conversation we had you mention krill and the overfishing of krill. Can you tell us about that and how that affects whales?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 37:22
What's interesting is that because of Happy Whale, we discovered that our whales are feeding in the Western Antarctic Peninsula, And that's a long way to go. And the krill, obviously they eat the krill there, but because of climate change, the krill are moving because what the krill need to survive, that's all moving because of water temperature. But what kills me is that there are these huge trawlers, these huge boats that are collecting millions of pounds of krill for human consumption or for dog food or for fishing. And they're making vitamins and makeup and ridiculous things like that.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 38:11
And skin care products. Yeah.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 38:13
Why are we taking their food? We're doing so much to them to hurt them inadvertently and sometimes on purpose in certain countries. But yeah. So the krill. This year we had a very poor season of whales. You had a lot of whales in Australia, but through Oceania we didn't have as many at all. And I think it's because they are not getting enough blubber on their bodies to survive the 6 to 8 months of fasting. They don't eat when they're migrating and mating and giving birth when they go to the warmer areas. They go and they gorge themselves in Antarctica and the whales in the northern hemisphere in the northern latitudes, but they're not getting enough blubber on them. So we even had the 3 whales in South America identified some of the same whales that we saw in Rarotonga and took pictures of. We had Peru, Ecuador, Costa Rica, and it's it may— this whole taking the krill and climate change may cause this food shortage for them, and they will start— it's closer to go to South America than it is to go all the way to Oceania, where your whales in Australia go pretty much down to the Antarctic feeding grounds. And they still go a very long way, but not as far as the Oceania whales. Yes.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 39:49
So do you think we should stop consuming krill ourselves as humans because the whales need the krill. We don't, but the whales do.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 39:58
And the seals and all the penguins, all the life down there. It's so important, but we just don't think of the big picture and we need to. Be responsible, you know. This is going to sound funny and I'm not trying to advertise anything, but I was just working on a film with Brian Skerry and he gave me this app. I do a lot of work with him. He does National Geographic stuff, and we did that whale film. And so anyway, he gave me this app called YUKA, Y-U-K-A, and it's free. And you just take your phone to the grocery store, and you can do cosmetics and shampoos and all that stuff and every food. And you just ding, ding, ding, and it tells you what's good for you, the additives it has in it, what's not good for you. It rates it from like 0 to 100. So I go around the grocery store now zapping everything with my phone. And it's really interesting how these products that we think that we've been using for years and we think are okay are not okay. And the great thing about Yucca is that it gives you alternatives also of things that are responsible and and, um, don't destroy the environment and are good for you.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 41:17
Yes. Then is that YUKA?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 41:21
Yeah, I love it. I've given it to so many people in so many countries. It just makes me feel more responsible.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 41:29
Yes.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 41:30
And healthier.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 41:30
Yes. Because Jane Goodall used to say that every, every individual matters and every individual makes a difference, and we get to choose what sort of difference we want to make, whether it's a positive or a destructive difference.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 41:43
We do, we really do. I mean, everything that we do has an impact on the planet. And as you know, the old Buddhist saying, leave no trace, and we have to go back to that.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 41:58
Yes, yes. In Australia now, just thinking, going back to the threats again, in Australia now, the shark nets are controversial. Some, some people want them there thinking, believing that it's going to protect them from sharks, but the shark nets are, um, are hindering the whales' migration. And some, quite a lot of whales are being caught this year. Oh no.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 42:27
And some whales have been caught in the krill industry too. And of course So much ghost net is out there and they get entangled, especially the calves. And it's just, it's a horrible death of drowning. And I, yeah, well, it's going to be interesting, this whole offshore Rauui, because we as a country are going to approach all the other countries around us to protect and to safeguard those migratory pathways. And so I'm sure Australia is going to be on the list. Australia, New Zealand, Tonga, you know, everywhere. Even American Samoa, and there you have a problem because the government, the crazy, wild, irresponsible government of the US right now is talking about I'm being polite, is talking about deep-sea mining off of American Samoa. Well, I can show them right now the satellite tracks of the Oceania endangered population going right through where they want to start doing deep-sea mining. So we all have to join forces and share the wisdom and the knowledge and fight the irresponsible politicians and praise the good ones.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 43:56
Yes, yes. And then a lot of people who work with animals like yourself sometimes experience deep sadness or even a burnout, a compassion burnout, if you like.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 44:09
Does that—
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 44:10
do you experience that sometimes?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 44:13
Yeah, I do. I— there's a documentary that was made a few years ago, and at the end of it, I actually start crying. I— that was unexpected. But I— especially lately, I'd say for the past year, it's been very sad. I'm a very happy person, but I am definitely depressed some days about things that you fight for all your life and then something comes along and takes it away, destroys it. It's irrelevant now to them. And so I actually feel that so much of what we have fought for in protection and awareness of climate change is being pushed aside. And I sometimes feel really hopeless, but I still I still, I'll never stop fighting. And you've got to keep your chin up because otherwise you're just giving in and we can't, we can't give in. And so yes, I have a really hard time some days.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 45:29
Yeah. But you keep going because you're determined not to give in.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 45:33
Yeah. And actually that was my mother's As I was saying, my mother was a wonderful, wonderful woman. And every time I'd leave and I wouldn't be seeing her for a while, she'd say, "Keep going." Yeah. Yeah.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 45:49
Yeah. Nan, you've given us some actions to help whales, like not over-consuming, just treading lightly on our planet.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 46:01
I can give you more if you want. Yeah, give us— okay, I actually made a list out because I'm sending it to a friend. You know, obviously use great all-natural household cleaners and stay away from the chemicals, which are in just about everything. Take your grocery bag with you, go to the thrift shops, be careful of transportation. Take your public transportation when you can. Compost your food and your yard clippings and reuse takeout containers. And that's one of the worst culprits right there. Use your runoff water for other things like plants and buy proper materials with your clothes and your shoes and jackets and everything because So when you're wearing synthetic materials and you wash them, all those little plastic particles come out in the wash and then end up down the drain and in the streams and the rivers and the ocean and then in the fish. And it's shocking. I read a published paper on how they looked at one salmon and it had 88 contaminants in it. Anyway, so, and use LED light bulbs. Cold water when you wash your clothes. Don't waste food. Don't buy what you're not going to eat or what you don't need. Simplify. Give away food if you have extra food. Use water bottles. You know, something— it was like 26 million tons of plastic in 2017. That was a long time ago. We probably even use more plastic now. Biodegradable packaging. And that's a really big one. And unfortunately, we get stuck with what you can buy. And so we really have to work on the companies that produce the product and package it in all this plastic. And it's so humiliating sometimes when you're just trying to open one simple thing and there's layers and layers of plastic.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 48:17
Yes, yes, yes.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 48:20
We can all do much better, much better.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 48:22
There's a critical mass of people who, who behave in a, in a planet-friendly way. There will be a difference, there will be a change.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 48:33
Yes, there has to be. Yes.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 48:38
And how can people people support your work in the Cook Islands whale research? Is it called the Cook Islands Whale Research Center?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 48:50
No, actually. Well, the— yes, sorry. Yes, the Cook Islands whale research is absolutely really important. The education center, we're moving to a different area right now. And So my website for the past 30 years has been www.whaleresearch.org. So it's .org. And we have a donation button. And so if anybody wants to donate, oh my gosh, it makes a huge difference. Most of my team, in fact, including me, we don't really get paid, and yet we do so much work, and that's okay because we love the whales and we do it for the whales and the environment, and yet we still obviously need money to survive. So I'm not— being a Quaker, I'm not very good at asking for money. Did you just notice that? But yes, of course, donations are greatly appreciated.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 49:55
Great. Yeah, okay, thank you very much, Nan. And so Is there one parting message you'd like to share with the audience, something that will stay with them after the interview?
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 50:12
Yes. I tell my children and my grandchildren and my students and interns, you have a voice and use it, and in a good way. Use it. Don't teach people by intimidation. Teach them with curiosity and with wisdom and with love and nature. You know, every question that we have in life, I think the answers are in nature and in animals. And I've been blessed by surrounding myself with so many animals in my life, farm animals and wild animals, and, you know, and I just love them all, even the skunk that just sprayed my dog in the face a couple nights ago. Nature really has the answers to all of our questions. And I think also it's really important to remember that when we are down and we are getting depressed about the state of the world, and what happens to nature and animals, go outside. Go outside and lay on the ground. Go take a walk. Jump in the ocean. Breathe it in.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 51:35
Yeah, connect. Reconnect.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 51:37
That's the word. Connect. Yes. And I love what you're doing. I think it's fabulous. Thank you for doing what you're doing. And I can't wait to see all of your podcasts. I'll be very busy catching up.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 51:54
Oh, thank you, Nan. It is such a privilege to get to know you and to interview you today, and I really look forward to meeting you in, in person. Okay, hopefully next year.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 52:04
Yes, please. Thank you, Natalie. Thank you, thank you very much.
Natalie Stockdale (Host) · 52:09
Okay. Animals and Us is a production of Kintsugi Heroes. Thank you to Xavier Rudd for his permission to use Follow the Sun as our theme music for this series. If you enjoyed this conversation, share the podcast with a friend and let us know by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to support Kintsugi Heroes and the stories we share, head to Kintsugiheroes.com.au and follow the instructions to make a tax-deductible donation. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.
Nan Hauser (Guest) · 52:50
A brand new moon and brand new sun.
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