Ian Westmoreland
Finishing Well: From Corporate Success to Giving Back
At 70, Ian Westmoreland left corporate success behind to build spaces where ordinary Australians' stories are heard with dignity.
Hear this story
Kintsugi Studio
Ian Westmoreland
At 70, Ian Westmoreland left corporate success behind to build spaces where ordinary Australians' stories are heard with dignity.
Hear this story
At 70, Ian Westmoreland left a corporate career behind to build something that matters. For decades, he'd chased money and status, climbing the ladder in IT while raising four kids with his wife Helen. But on September 10, 2013, his life redirected. A health crisis hit hard: cancer, pulmonary fibrosis, an antibiotic reaction that sent him to hospital. He came close to dying and found himself strangely at peace with it. What mattered then wasn't the car he drove or the title he held. It was the people he loved and the work he felt called to do.
What Ian saw in older Australians troubled him. Wisdom and skills sitting unused. People isolated, their mental and physical health declining. He'd read about intergenerational programs where seniors spent time with young children, and the results were striking: less suicide ideation, better balance, measurable improvements in wellbeing. So he started mentoring young men in schools, then founded Kintsugi Heroes, a podcast platform built on a simple belief: ordinary Australians' stories, told with dignity and heard with care, can reach the person who needs them most.
For the past decade, Ian has said this has been the most fulfilling time of his life. Not because he's famous or wealthy, but because he's stopped being defined by his roles and started being defined by his values: empathy, connection, the willingness to help one person at a time. He describes it using the starfish parable. The beach is littered with thousands, the trends keep going the wrong way, but when you throw one starfish back into the water, it matters to that one. That's where his hope lives now.
“On the 10th of September, 2013, my life changed and the new mission is this giving back mission, this identifying and trying to live my best life mission.”
“The last 10 years has been easily the most fulfilling, enjoyable, purposeful time of my life and learned a huge amount.”
“Legacy is not pride with legacy. It's not, oh, look what I've done. It's the fact this is going to continue, the ripple effect will continue and keep growing.”
The hero, today
Older Australians carry an untapped resource of wisdom and skills, and when they lack meaningful connection, both they and their communities lose out, but the physical and mental health benefits of intergenerational relationships are measurable and real. The most fulfilling decade of Ian's life has been the ten years since he stopped chasing money and status, redirected his energy to giving back, and built his mission around helping people through storytelling and connection. What Ian has learned he no longer needs as he ages is the materialism and judgment he once thought mattered, and what he has found is that freedom comes from being more loving and less judgmental. Understanding what might have caused someone's behaviour, rather than just focusing on the behaviour itself, opens the door to forgiveness and compassion, and this shift applies equally to how we treat seniors and how we treat each other. Making a difference doesn't require changing the whole world at once; it requires showing up and helping one person, one starfish at a time, and the ripple effect of that work grows from there.
Yes. Ian Westmoreland is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Older Australians carry an untapped resource of wisdom and skills, and when they lack meaningful connection, both they and their communities lose out, but the physical and mental health benefits of intergenerational relationships are measurable and real.
The most fulfilling decade of Ian's life has been the ten years since he stopped chasing money and status, redirected his energy to giving back, and built his mission around helping people through storytelling and connection.
What Ian has learned he no longer needs as he ages is the materialism and judgment he once thought mattered, and what he has found is that freedom comes from being more loving and less judgmental.
John Milham (Host) · 00:00
This limited Kintsugi Heroes podcast series was made possible through grant funding provided by the New South Wales Department of Communities and Justice Connecting Seniors Grant Program. If you'd like to find out more about Kintsugi Heroes, head to kintsugiheroes.com.au.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 00:23
Welcome to our Kintsugi Heroes special series, Connecting Seniors, where we share the experiences of aging Australians to create connections across our communities.
John Milham (Host) · 00:34
In this episode, John Millum had a chat with Ian Westmoreland, founder of Kintsugi Heroes and an inspiring advocate for our senior community. As an aging member himself, Ian offers a profound perspective on the untapped wisdom and skills that seniors possess, the importance of intergenerational connections, and his own journey from a life focused on financial success to one devoted to giving back, finding purpose, and leaving a lasting legacy for future generations.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 01:02
Now let's get to the conversation.
John Milham (Host) · 01:07
Welcome back to our little podcast here, and of course, Stories That Matter, Stories of Resilience and Hope. And today is a little bit different and, and, you know, maybe a little challenging. Yeah, we'll see, because it's an interesting member of the community. I have to declare my conflict of interest because today I am enormously excited and privileged to talk to the founder of Kintsugi Heroes and obviously, you know, my boss. But so, you know, forgive me if I sound a little less challenging than usual. However, today this is not about Ian, who is well-practiced at telling us how he got to become such a, you know, an important person in creating organizations that support the community. But this is about Ian, who the identity, the person where he is now, like of a certain age, a man of a certain age with a man of certain responsibilities and certain history that got him there. Because today we are talking to Ian as part of our Connecting to Seniors series. So welcome Ian, who is now like a senior, right? As part of our, or part of our cohort of interesting older Australians. So thank you, Ian, for joining us today.
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Understanding what might have caused someone's behaviour, rather than just focusing on the behaviour itself, opens the door to forgiveness and compassion, and this shift applies equally to how we treat seniors and how we treat each other.
This conversation includes welcome to connecting seniors, never thought of myself as a senior, an untapped resource of wisdom and skills, the wake-up call, three diagnoses and what they taught me and legacy isn't about pride.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 02:33
G'day, John. I think thank you for the introduction. I'm not sure where that was going to go. And it's funny, I never even thought of myself for this series because I struggle thinking of myself as a senior, but I'm well and truly there age-wise.
John Milham (Host) · 02:50
Well, that, in terms of we're really only as old as the commands we bark out at other people to keep up with us, right? But so in many ways, you know, you are too busy to attend to this because you're so involved in so many other things. But it really, you know, it really is an important part of us understanding, right? That the stories are a consequence of life, mate. And you've lived a life, right? And where you've got to is about, means that you are a senior. And it's interesting that seniors has a connotation, right? So you haven't seen yourself as a senior. Well, how do you view, you know, how do you see senior Australians?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 03:37
I guess a number of different ways. There's this huge untapped, underutilized resource of wisdom and skills. And it's, in a way, it's a lose-lose at the moment. There's this huge potential that's untapped and the mental and physical impact on those older people for being untapped is quite negative. And there was a great TV documentary where they matched some of these older people with young kids, uh, the kindergarten kids, and then they measured the various aspects of the physical and mental health. You know, there's suicide ideation. How long they could stand on one leg for and things like that. And it increased enormously when they had this meaningful relationship with a young person. And I don't know what it is, is it— I hear in the corporate world sometimes there's too much gray or there's, there's a reluctance to recruit someone in that space. And I feel it's not a sensible decision. I guess I've been fortunate that I left paid work when I turned 60, but then started my own business, not-for-profit organization. So I wasn't dependent on someone looking at how much hair I had in my case, or how much gray you've got, John, in your beard in your case. Yeah. So I, yeah, I see this untapped resource. I see a lot of challenges. Around the lack of connection and support, respect even. You go to Japan, there's far more respect for elder citizens. You go to Europe, there's far more intergenerational stuff. My wife Helen's father was Italian, and in the Italian community, often the seniors would live with the family. And there's a lot of negative trends, I guess, in Australia. Hopefully we, we're doing something about that through this, this project that we're running.
John Milham (Host) · 05:42
Absolutely. Like, so it's interesting that you, you know, talk about the negative trends. Where do you feel like age has changed your circumstances?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 05:53
I'd like to say some cases I don't feel it has, but that's not being 100% truthful, but I'm still incredibly active physically. Uh, I ride a bike around 140k a week. Um, on Tuesdays I look after a 4-year-old and, uh, and an 18-month-old grandchildren, and I am this— I'm about 5 mentally, running around wrestling and, and, um, and, and doing all this stuff. But the reality is I thought I was gonna die. Uh, and my, and people around me thought I was gonna die last year. Yeah. I collapsed at home and finished up in hospital. Uh, I've been through, uh, cancer, uh, recovery. Um, so I guess that the signs of indication of the age, I guess, is just some of the physical things that have been playing up a bit, but feeling feeling good now. So it's, it's, yeah, that's probably the wake-up call. And, and, you know, I, I guess, um, I never see myself retiring. My wife uses, oh, you retired 10 years ago, and I hate it. I say, I didn't retire, I stopped paid work. And my take on it is I'll just, I, I, I wanna strive to continue to give back. I wanna strive to continue to learn. Until the day I die.
John Milham (Host) · 07:21
Yeah.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 07:21
So that, that's, that's where I'm at.
John Milham (Host) · 07:23
That sounds like a mission. Is that a, is that your mission now or is that always been your mission or is it deeper than that?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 07:29
Certainly hasn't always been. I guess early on in, in married life, the mission was just making money. Like we were poor and then the mission became climbing the corporate ladder. And then on the 10th of September, 2013, my life changed and the new mission is this giving back mission, this identifying and trying to live my best life mission. So it certainly hasn't always been this way. And, and, uh, I mean, I, at times it was totally appropriate to make money. You gotta, you gotta feed your family. Uh, we had our kids very close together, uh, uh, for many years. Uh, Helen couldn't work, so it was just my role was to get, just get food on the table, get them clothed. Um, but now we're in a position, I mean, we're not wealthy, but I don't need to focus on that. I can do what I, I, I can do what I feel I'm called to do in my mission for this stage. Dare I say the, I don't wanna say it, but the final stage of my life.
John Milham (Host) · 08:32
Yeah. Well, it is, that's an interesting aspect to bring out because like, as you said, you, you, you got very close to the concept of your own mortality recently with your illness. And if, you know, we can, if it's all right to chat about that, what do, what do, what does it feel like to suddenly have something so significant and so, you know, and, and so implacable hit you?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 09:00
So I guess there's, there's 3 different illnesses and, and they were different. So there was the, cancer diagnosis and fortunate that there's a really good prognosis now. There's been a round immunotherapy, there's been tremendous breakthroughs in that. So I've felt pretty confident around that. There was another diagnosis around, uh, what they call pulmonary fibrosis, which is a, uh, progressive non-treatable lung disease. You basically just lose the ability to to breathe. That upset me that I, uh, that it was just gonna be this gradual decline, but it didn't feel right. I still don't believe it. And now I've got a test coming up in a month's time. Mm-hmm. Um, the third one that knocked me for six is when I collapsed at home and, um, finished up in emergency at hospital and just feeling absolutely awful. Um, managed to get outta hospital. We had a book launch to do for Kintsugi Heroes, and then I collapsed again and again. And fortunately that turned out to be almost certainly due to an antibiotic that I'd been put on that I had a reaction to. But I've gotta say, I, I, I think I'm a bit of a, not a coward, but a maybe lacking courage sometimes. But at that time, my, my faith, I was okay with dying. Mm-hmm. The process of dying, not too keen about.
John Milham (Host) · 10:31
Yeah.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 10:32
Um, but the, to actually die, I, um, this, don't get me wrong, there's so much more I want to achieve and do in my life. But, um, yeah, it, it's like a, from a Christian point of view, it's a, it's a win-win. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Don't, it's obviously gonna happen. I, I'd love to get another 10 or 20 years cuz there's There's a lot of things that I want to do, but prepared to die so much, I don't get a choice anyway.
John Milham (Host) · 10:58
Hey, maybe this could be the start of it. Like, we're here, you know, this could be dying on, on screen. Um, sometimes most podcasts I feel like I'm dying, right? Um, it's an, it's an interesting, interesting response. Like the, the nature. So you, you, you had, you know, you, you grew up being, you know, active and, and energetic and and maybe a little hyperactive at times, right? Your working life was characterized by getting in and moving all the time. And of course, you're into, you've had sporting success and stayed active, hyper, extreme active, right? With all the biking and hiking and all the rest of it. In terms of the concept of stopping all that, why have you come to an accommodation? Why are you You know, okay with, with that when that's, you know, not been your life. When you say, okay, we're not gonna be doing any of this anymore, right? We're just moving on.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 11:59
Well, maybe there's a selfish way of looking at that. Um, and I struggle with some parts of the Bible, including interpretation around heaven, things like that. We're getting quite spiritual here. Hmm. Um, but it's, it's like, it's, it's The great place to be. It's utopia. So from a selfish point of view, it's almost like being in heaven is the best of the lot for at a personal level, right? From a, I guess, a non-selfish point of view, but what I feel I'm called to do, I just want to do a lot more. Like it's early days with the Kintsugi Heroes, but I'm incredibly excited about where that's heading. If possible, I'd like to see some great-grandkids. I'm going to need to be around for another 10 or 15 years to see that. The trend now is, of course, kids aren't having kids at all, or having them later on. And, uh, so if my grandkids ever listen to this, you know, get on with it, guys. After marriage stage, after that, right?
John Milham (Host) · 13:05
Find the right partner.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 13:07
So yeah, well, Legacy, right?
John Milham (Host) · 13:10
Is that what you're satisfied with when you're driven to make such effort and make such sacrifice to give back? What do you think's fueling that mission?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 13:23
It's legacy, but it's not pride with legacy. It's not, oh, look what I've done. It's not that at all. It's the fact this is going to continue, the ripple effect will continue and keep growing. And when the new Ian, the new improved Ian comes and takes over the organization. Yeah. Yeah. And I'd love that continue. And the same with mentoring men. There's huge, huge potential with those. And I just, yeah, I mean the thought of helping recreate the village, the thought of, uh, through storytelling, helping people with the challenges they're experiencing. Uh, it just, I'm delighted to, uh, to contemplate on that, not from a pride point of view. As I said, coming back to, it's actually helping fulfill the, the purpose I've been given.
John Milham (Host) · 14:20
Yeah. So the, the idea that, um, the world is a better place, is that truly what you're, what you're seeing though, like as a consequence of your presence?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 14:30
Yeah, I'd like to think that, John. I'd like to think that most interactions I have with people, uh, they don't regret, they don't regret the interaction.
John Milham (Host) · 14:39
Hmm.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 14:40
And it's, it's a powerful concept when those positive interactions happen when you're not doing anything at all. It's, it's, uh, it's like our relationship here, John. You go out, you talk to a number of people and, and Kentucky Heroes is just one of the vehicles that you use to meet these other people and you have an impact on them. And then they'll go out and have an impact. So it's a powerful concept.
John Milham (Host) · 15:06
Yeah. The purpose of connection. I love that. So it's interesting, you mentioned earlier with your grandkids that you join them in their age group, right? As a conversation, this is about the senior Australians and their journey, which is both challenge and triumph in many ways, right? Do you, is that a group you can identify as well? Like even if you are part of it temporarily, you know, like are you actually, is it a group that you join and how do you feel about that group?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 15:44
So I do join that group. One of the things we've done through Connecting Seniors is set up this community choir. So I turn up there and it's a real mixture of different situations. I, I, I could be deceiving myself. I feel like I'm the youngest member of the choir.
John Milham (Host) · 16:01
Yeah.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 16:02
But there's people there with Parkinson's and Alzheimer's, people with all sorts of different situations, and we, we sing along and I, I, uh, I, I enjoy that, but I see my role there is almost, um, if I see someone on the road, so we have a, we, we do the singing. And then we have morning tea. And if I see someone on their own, I'll just wanna go over and have a chat to them and support them. So I, I guess I, I'm seeing a role, not just I'm a participant.
John Milham (Host) · 16:33
Hmm.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 16:34
I, I feel like I want to build connection. I wanna, what you said before, maybe like there's a guy sitting on his own last time and, uh, um, he had a physical disability. I was chatting to someone, I said, oh, look, hold on, I've, I've, sorry, I've just, I've gotta, I've gotta go and chat to someone. I went over and I just sat next to him and heard a bit of his story and he brightened up and, and, um, I feel that's a role that for me, so it's, do you, I dunno if I'm making that clear, like there's, there's just a participation. I'm here for me, or I'm here because I want to give back in some way to, based on my capabilities, maybe down the track I'll be there for just for me.
John Milham (Host) · 17:20
Yeah. Well, interesting how you describe that because you mentioned the word role a couple of times in that description and we've actually had conversations about roles and how they define us in some ways. So the interesting, almost division between who we are, our identity, and what role we play, right? Are you, you're like, where are you in that? You're walking into something, you participate, do you enjoy it as Ian? And then also, you know, need a role to be a part, to feel like justified to be there? Or how do you see roles and who you are as a person?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 17:59
Yeah. Oh, up until very recently, if people asked, who are you? I would define myself by my roles. I'm a, I'm a father, I'm a husband, I'm a great-grandfather, I'm a friend, I'm a brother, whatever, a whole bunch of different things. And it occurred to me, like through, through mentoring men where I learned a lot about what it's like to be, I call a life mentor. Yeah. Sometimes in a discussion, all of a sudden, Ian, you need to be quiet. And put on your mentor hat.
John Milham (Host) · 18:33
Yeah.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 18:33
And then, and then continue with that. So this, with these different roles, sometimes I visit putting on it like with this person that the choir, it was okay, I'm now, I'm just going to be, it's going to be a friendly, a friendly role. But it occurred to me, okay, that's not who Ian is. Ian's not someone who who is all these different roles? Who is the genuine Ian? And it's evolved and I hadn't really thought that much about it, uh, until recently. And, and maybe some people go through life never really knowing who they are. And I'm still not sure what I am. I, I, I, one of the attributes is a set of values that I've got. Mm-hmm. Um, and I've still, I guess I'm still working working through that, but I tend to always come back, well, this is what I do. Mm-hmm. Um, so I dunno if I've answered your question. I'm still trying to work out who I am. I'm, I'm someone with a lot of empathy. I'm someone who cares for others. I'm, uh, someone who, uh, I, I think is, is, uh, Christian values. Um, but someone who also says the dumb things sometimes. Uh, someone who still has inappropriate emotions sometimes. I mean, I'm, I, you know, don't wanna sugarcoat, you know, sometimes I don't even like myself.
John Milham (Host) · 19:54
Mm-hmm.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 19:54
So, so that's, yeah, that's, that's the real end.
John Milham (Host) · 19:58
That's real, mate. Real. It's interesting you say that. Do you think as you talk about who, you know, the search, well, I, you know, I personally think, you know, there are two things we seek in life fundamentally, that's safety and identity. Yeah. What, what, what do you think? What do you think's important? Senior Australians have got to a point where they played many, many roles in their lives, right? So what do you think, as we, and I'm including myself in this, as we get to breach some of the sort of social barriers like age of 60, retirement, all that stuff, what do you think becomes important for older Australians to know?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 20:47
I think it's important to build connections. I was listening to Dr. Rob Gordon a couple days ago. He's a clinical psychologist who we met through the Alpine bushfires, and he talked about the importance of social capital. And when he talked about after a traumatic event, far more important than money and the infrastructure was his social capital. And to me, he was talking about natural disaster trauma, but the trauma could be a loss of a partner, of a loss of a physical capability or whatever. So I think social capital is really, really important. Those that building those connections, and it, whether it's going to the community choir or, or Getting involved in different groups, volunteering. There's, there's a huge lot of science around the benefit of volunteering. I would encourage around physical exercise. I would encourage around, uh, activities, uh, that maintain like mental acuity. So, um, and I love this intergenerational thing. I think there's, there's a lot of things that older people can do that are in their best interest. And there's a lot of things that society could also be doing to facilitate that. And as I said at the start, it's an untapped resource. There's a great win-win-win here if we just understand it.
John Milham (Host) · 22:19
That's a huge and clear vision for older Australians to interact. What do you think in your life With all of those roles you've played and all of that energy you put in, you talked about the stages, young and your focus on providing for the family. And then later on, what did you learn that is essential to live a good older stage, to be in this stage and do well?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 22:51
Yeah, it's interesting. In my working career, I saw retirement, the traditional retirement, which is this self-centered— I'm sorry, not being critical, but self-centered. It's playing golf 3 times a week, or the Grey Nomads, or traveling around, or whatever. And I said, on the 10th of September, 2013, my definition of that totally changed. And for me, the last 10 years has been easily the most fulfilling, enjoyable, purposeful time of my life and learned a huge amount. I would encourage people around those sorts of things. It's just in giving back, in volunteering, they'll get all these benefits that I talked about before.
John Milham (Host) · 23:42
What did you learn that you don't need as you walk into this stage?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 23:48
Oh, the materialism that we can sometimes get sucked into. Uh, um, yeah, John, we've got similar age cars. I think mine's 2007. I don't know what yours is.
John Milham (Host) · 23:59
I'm 2003.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 24:02
Do I, the car still goes. No, I, so it's moving away from the materialism. It's becoming more loving, less judgmental. There's huge freedom in that. It's, it's, uh, yeah. Uh, yeah, those sorts of things. I'm not sure if I answered your question, but yeah, that's— now I've learned the things that we used, that we thought were important, and the reality is we were educated to think were important or influenced to think were important, aren't really that important.
John Milham (Host) · 24:36
Yeah.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 24:37
And the things that are important are these social connections, these relationships, these making the world a better place. Yeah. Beautiful.
John Milham (Host) · 24:47
So you, you talked about how much energy in your younger days you spent into, you know, building providence, building, you know, material, you know, um, security we would call it, right? Community would call it. Uh, what, uh, do you now believe is your treasure?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 25:05
My treasure is the knowledge that I've gained, understanding the impact that, of, of the things that, that, that are having on making the world a better place. The treasure is this family, and I'm absolutely blessed with 4 kids, 12 grandkids that, to be honest, I probably didn't appreciate different times and, and I'm sure my kids would even say now, still not appreciating to the full degree. It's, it's one of the challenges I've got is this balance, and the balance is impossible between the things I feel called to do and, and family life. And it's, it's a, it's one of the hardest things I've got with my current situation. But, but, but I, the treasure of my, my family and the treasure of being married to Helen for 41 years. With challenges.
John Milham (Host) · 26:01
You know, I often think you've gotta, you know, the treasure shines most brightly when it's well polished. So takes it, takes effort sometimes to keep the treasure shiny. Which is interesting because, you know, you talked about for the first responses, the things you've learned, what would you encourage other older Australians and indeed what you are doing now, which is trying to help them find that in themselves. What would you encourage them to know about the knowledge they possess or even their, you know, who they are, what about their identity?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 26:39
Well, to know that they're valued, first off. They've got an important part to play in our society. There's so much, so many gifts that they've got that they can give out to the community. And I would encourage them to start doing that. As I said, look for connection opportunities, look for ways they can, they can give back, uh, go and do things for other people. Yeah. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 27:12
Great. It's a great toolkit. Um, and it's lovely to hear, you know, I'm sure people would hear that and be encouraged. So what, what most encourages you? Like, uh, you know, like you've gone through some tough times physically. And of course, you know, what you bite off, you know, is, you know, you don't, you take a big bite of things and say, we're gonna do this. It's not like, you know, I'll just volunteer on Sundays. It's like, you know, I'm gonna create, you know, game-changing movements in Australia. So what keeps, what do you find best keeps you going?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 27:46
Right.
John Milham (Host) · 27:46
You mentioned faith and exercise. Are those the things you rely on? What else is there?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 27:51
I think part of it, I'm incredibly competitive, and it could be good or bad. I don't know if that goes back to the, all the insecurity I had as a, as a, as a kid, and it was almost like, um, needing to prove myself all the time. So if I say I'm going to do something, uh, I'll put every effort into doing that. In fact, those that have Meeting earlier on today, and I've, I started writing a book, um, a while ago, and I've now committed to have it done by my birthday in March next year.
John Milham (Host) · 28:28
Wow.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 28:29
So if I'm still alive, there will be a book, uh, at least a draft, complete book.
John Milham (Host) · 28:35
Well, if you don't make it, I'll write your final chapter for you, mate.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 28:40
So, and it's this persistence, it's I talk about ready, fire, aim, which is sort of like describes how I approach things. And I meet a lot of people along the journey and I find far more people in the ready, aim, ready, ready, aim, ready. And it's, I don't know if it's analysis paralysis or procrastination, they just struggle. That's at one extreme. The, the lesser extreme is fire. It's like it's no plan. Uh, and, uh, I guess I'm in that, that middle thing and then that, that determination, persistence. And there's many stories through my life where that persistence, I just kept going and going and going, whether it be a physical activity or, you know, I've run a number of different businesses and things like that. So I, I feel that's my, one of my strengths is just that persistence to keep going when maybe many others would stop. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 29:39
And what's the saying? You know, I'd rather be persistent than good.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 29:44
Is that— Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's 5% talent and 95%, whatever the percentage is.
John Milham (Host) · 29:51
Yeah. Yeah.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 29:52
Yeah. Yeah. 76% of statistics are wrong. So I don't know what the figure is.
John Milham (Host) · 29:58
So, and speaking of like statistics in the sort of everyday world, is it all right if we, you know, explore The power of faith in your, in you, in you, in your persistence, right? But how do you see faith as an everyday activity?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 30:15
Um, first, it's a struggle for me. There's, there's people I meet in Christian circles who are constantly interacting with God in their faith, and in some ways I'm jealous of those people. That's not where I'm at. The vast majority of the time I'm in my own headspace doing the things that I feel need to be done. And it's important for me, for me it's important to go to church because it helps get me centered or to spend some time focused to help, to help get me centered. Often it's only when I look back that I can see a divine influence in the things that have happened to, to me. So, um, Yeah, and the faith journey is, is, has evolved and is still evolving. You know, I mentioned before, uh, I'm a Christian, but I struggle with some aspects of the Bible. I, to me, it's things said that fail the pub test. Um, but it's Mark Twain said, it's, it's not the things I don't understand about the Bible that concern me, it's the things I do. And I, I, I guess I come back to the Apostle's Creed, that, that core belief and that I'm locked in on. The other stuff around the role of women in preaching and genocides and things like that, they're the things that I, yeah, I got a lot of questions around it.
John Milham (Host) · 31:38
Yeah. And asking the, you know, I forget who said, I think it's Stephen Covey, the, you know, the quality of the questions we ask determines the quality of the lives we lead.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 31:48
I think Everyone should be carefully questioning things that are going on at the moment. I, one of the concerns I've got is this polarization that's going on driven by social media. We've got this experiment that's never been done in history. We don't know how it's gonna turn out around social media, but there's a lot of really negative signs that are going on. And I, I, I like this model where we've got a, a wire that almost goes to opposite points. Yes, no, black, white, whatever, right, wrong, but it never gets there. And then there's a bead on the wire. And as we have conversations like this, John, we might move that bead one way or another way, but some people are so locked in to either extreme that if you were to say to them, What information would you need to hear for you to change your position? A likely response could be, there's nothing you can say or nothing you can tell me that would change my position. And, um, I, that's a very foolish attitude to have. And we're seeing that like in American politics at the moment. I'm just incredibly concerned and just gobsmacked by some of the things that are happening. It, it, it I feel a bit distressed about, I've been praying about that situation.
John Milham (Host) · 33:10
Yeah. Wow. Um, it's a great image and thinking about that image and as you say, you know, the current world scenario seems to be very challenging as you look at it. And of course we look at stats just recent, just out this week was the, the latest community tracker, you know, that says, you know, distress in the home and the family and individual young people's mental health. It's all going the wrong way on the statistics. And of course, we talk to a lot of people who have struggles and challenges, emotional challenges. So with all that going on, can we be positive? Is being an older Australian just a misery these days?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 33:55
No, no, we can be positive, John. And I know that, look, there's so many factors in this. My background is IT. It's like, well, there's changes going all over the place and adding How do you know the impact of what you're doing? I know you would know the starfish model, but can I just explain that? Yeah, please relate that back.
John Milham (Host) · 34:13
Yeah, that's great.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 34:13
And I, I may get this slightly different to your understanding, but there's a guy looking down on a beach. He sees someone walking along the beach and frequently bending down, picking something up and throwing it into the water. And as he gets closer to the beach, he can see the, the beach is just littered with thousands and thousands of starfish. And this person who's, he goes over to the person picking him up, what are you doing? He said, well, they're out in the sun. They're gonna die unless they get back into the water. And the guy said to him, but the beach has got thousands and thousands. What possible difference can you make? And he looked at the one in his hand. He said, well, it's making a difference to this one. And he threw it back in. So there's all these trends, like you said, that are going the wrong way. The lack of young guys without a positive marlock. All this negative stuff. But what I can hand on my heart say, John, and we've seen this through the podcast, through the storytelling, through the responses we're getting, we are making a difference. Mm-hmm. People who, who are sharing their story talk about the therapeutic benefit. They're actually sharing it with someone who listens to them and hears them, and it's incredibly empowering. And the people who are picking up these stories, Often people think, "Well, I'm the only one who feels this way. No one knows what I've gone through." But then they hear this story and it resonates with them and it encourages them to reach out, maybe talk to someone else. So the trend could keep going down, but we're one of the players in that who's doing our bit to improve the world that we live in. And hopefully that impact will get bigger and bigger. So I would come back and encourage other people get involved in something like this. Find, find whatever it is. Find your Kintsugi heroes, find your mentoring men, whatever that thing is for you, and then give it a crack and make a difference. It, it's worthwhile just for one starfish.
John Milham (Host) · 36:05
Absolutely. I love that. And, um, you know, it's really a call to arms that you've just issued. So you, and I find talking to the people we have on the podcast just so interesting, so inspiring, and they're still, plugging away. They haven't, like you, they haven't decided that it's, that, you know, they can't change things. What do you think it would look like if, you know, ultimately, you know, persistence is, you know, if we keep plugging away, we'll make a difference. What's the world look like in your mind, right? When we do make that difference?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 36:39
Okay. I've got, great question. I've got two big dreams around this. Um, the first dream is that every week in every community, a group of people get together, maybe with a facilitator like you, John, and over a cup of tea or whatever, stories are shared. People get listened to, they get encouraged. That connection, that social capital builds, and it goes every week. And then it— and, and that the love that behind the scenes with all that. And the second dream is that someone going through some sort of life challenge can readily find a resource, either whether it be a podcast or a radio broadcast or a book or a workshop or one of those events I just talked about, where they stay connect with the storyteller, where the story resonates to their situation. And it gives them some hope and some inspiration. And that's where I would love to see this happen. I can say probably confidently it won't happen in my lifetime, but it's, it's starting to happen, starting to happen. And I would love to see that grow. What a beautiful world that would be. When we, when I grew up, it was a village. Like, we were poor. We never had a telephone. Actually never had a fridge, but Mrs. Ryan, 3 houses down, had a telephone. So we would give her a number, then she would come up and say, oh, there's a phone call for you, and we'd go down there and do that. Well, um, you know, we go and get our eggs from this, uh, um, Mrs. House down on the corner. We knew the— we knew the neighbors, um, and we as kids would always be out the street playing cricket or football or a bit more risky, shanais and slingshots and doing stuff with crackers and doing stuff we shouldn't do. But there was that village, that community, and unfortunately we've lost that. My journey after the 10th of September 2013 started as being a youth mentor through the R.A.I.S.E. program in high schools. And I mentored a lot of schools and a lot of kids, and virtually every one of the young guys I mentored came from a broken family. There was no male role model, and it's a terrible situation. And, and that's, that's another one of the trends, the negative trends that's happened. So, yeah, let's, let's do something about that.
John Milham (Host) · 39:16
Mm-hmm. Great call, call to action again. And, but, uh, reasons for, uh, encouragement, right, to go. Speaking of which, right, what makes you laugh?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 39:30
I think I've got a GSOH, which is a good sense of humor. Good sense of humor.
John Milham (Host) · 39:36
Yeah.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 39:37
My grandkids make me laugh. Granddad, you've got a hole in your hair, as one of them said. And the games I play with them, the hide and seek Uh, uh, yeah, my son, my son is hilarious. My son Matthew just is just so funny. In fact, uh, people said to me, we thought you were funny, Ian, but Matthew leaves you, leaves you for dead. Um, and, but I, for me, it's a, it's a part of who I am. And I mean, this has been a serious conversation, but, uh, uh, so many things make me laugh.
John Milham (Host) · 40:15
I don't think it's mutually exclusive to be serious and to laugh, right? But, uh, um, which we like, obviously leads me to the question, what makes you cry?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 40:27
Some of the stories that we've shared make me cry and I'm really happy with that. It's not like, oh, I'm crying. Um, I get emotional thinking about that. Like there was the story around the floods and, uh, uh, Leith Mooneen's story. McBride. And sometimes it's just happiness. I, I, I, I meditate on the grandkids. Like my brain is often spinning. One of my daughters said, dad, you're on the spectrum. And I, I think she's right. So the brain, it's, it, I've gotta force myself, whether it be faith or art, to get into the space where I meditate on the, these things. But I can get emotional with that. I get a, I have a lot of empathy. Um, which can be good, can be not good, but, uh, even over films sometimes I get emotional. Um, so yeah, but I'm, uh, in the old days I would've seen that as being a big weakness and the old confusion over macho, you know, what a real man is. You know, I shared that as a kid, my Dad would take me and my brothers and some, uh, some of his mates and guys, and we'd go camping. And it was all about guns and shooting things. I remember one of my dad's mates would lie on his back with a .303, powerful rifle, try and shoot wedge-tailed eagles out of the sky. And they would shoot stuff, and I just hated it. I did. And they would go spotlighting, and I'd stay back in the tent questioning what sort of man was I. I didn't wanna go kill things. And, um, now I'm totally happy with that. I used to think it was a weakness, but now I think, no, I could understand. I mean, I, I'm not bagging people who wanna go out and shoot vermin. That's if that's what they're, they're into. Um, but I, I became, I questioned just around that. I became a vegetarian for a stage of my life cuz I thought, well, I'm being hypocritical. So, again, totally fine with that, but I'll have a, probably have a steak later on today.
John Milham (Host) · 42:32
I'm glad, I'm glad you're cured. Well, I find it interesting that on a question of making you cry, you got to vegetarianism. But, you know, anyway, let's make, put it out there that we have nothing against any, you know, nutritional lifestyle choices people make. But, So that brings me to the point about what do you think when you look at your life and the life of the people you connect with and your community, what in older Australians, is there a role model or is there someone who's inspired you or a story that's caught you and that really has filled you full of positivity for older Australians?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 43:15
There's been so many, but the one woman who had the biggest influence on my life, she actually turned up at our church. Someone told her I was an IT expert, which is totally wrong. And she, she soon worked out that wasn't the case. And she was writing this book aimed at, uh, highlighting reducing sexual abuse within churches. Wow. And, um, I ended up, um, and she, she, she saved, somehow she'd lost the book. I forget what it was. Yeah. Anyway, I, I ended up editing it, and Helen and I actually funded the book to be published. But that established this relationship with this woman. She became a mentor to me. She was a professor of theology, and I would meet with her every week. I'd make out an agenda, and she built such self-belief in myself. She saw things in myself that I didn't see. Wow. And it just incredibly powerful, influential. Relationship, and she taught me a lot about empathy as well. And, and, uh, yeah, just a beautiful relationship. She died. She got a brain tumor and died, and I was, uh, really distraught, upset. Uh, I went to a funeral thinking, and I was gonna talk because I want to share what this woman had done for me. The funeral was packed. There would've been another 50 Ians with stories about what this woman had done, and it was just amazing. And she was a leader. One of the stories that was shared, there was, um, she used to speak at conferences and she was, she was in the Anglican Church and she's speaking at this big conference one day and she put two Vitamizers or Mixmasters on stage. And she said, what's the difference between these? And then she answered the question. She said, there's no difference. They're identical. And then she put a woman's wig on one of them. Aja, now this one's not as good as the other one. So, and stories like that, but I, yeah, I, I actually, oh, this is gonna sound corny. I, I wrote to her once, 20 things I love about Marlene. Her name was Marlene. And she responded back and like, so that, there was a bit of vulnerability. I mean, I'm, how could you write that? How could a man write 20 things I like about you to someone? But that belief. So yeah, huge influence on my life.
John Milham (Host) · 45:48
So with that amazing inspiration from a a wonderful older Australian, right? Which is, you know, her legacy obviously came out when you were talking about it. It sounded, you know, there were an image of Mentoring Men came to mind. You know, you created a model where other men like that could be put, you know, put in contact and support, you know, just people in, you know, blokes in need in the community. And I, you know, her, you know, the ripple effect of of her being involved in your life is that, you know, other men are supporting blokes all over the country. So yeah, such, such legacy, such power.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 46:34
Well, one of the things she got me to do, cuz I, I struggled in a relationship with my dad for a long time and she got me to do an exercise. I forgot the question I was asked, but I, but I went away and wrote about my dad and the experience and how we related. And then all of a sudden, like there was some hard stuff that went on and stuff, you know, I didn't think he, I thought he did the wrong thing, but my dad was in World War II. Um, I think a quarter of his squadron were killed. Uh, there was no recognition of post-traumatic stress back then. And it's not an excuse for wrong behavior, but when you start to understand potential causes, as a society, we focus so strongly on symptoms. Mm-hmm. But when we go back and, and then maybe understand what could be behind that, to me, it makes us a lot more forgiving and understanding. And, uh, there's a powerful lesson in that, um, yeah, so the old Ian, pre-Kintsugi Heroes Ian, pre-Mentoring Men Ian, was far more judgmental. Uh, the new Ian is, oh, you know, poor thing. What, what, you know, what, what has gone on to create that sort of situation? Um, in you. And I, I, yeah, I think that sort of attitude could also help with the seniors environment both ways, seniors to the community and community back to the seniors. Beautiful.
John Milham (Host) · 48:12
I love that. Like the, the, you're talking about a new Ian, right? But we're all entering that sort of older Australian stage, right? Which is, and I think, you know, the, the power of transformation, it's not determined by your age. You, you, you, you can actually, you know, take all of those lessons, energy and, um, and understanding the wisdom of being a certain age. And you can put it to good use. I love that message, right?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 48:37
So, well, I didn't start mentoring men till 2018, so I was 64.
John Milham (Host) · 48:42
Wow.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 48:43
And Kintsugi Heroes started in 2022, so I was 68. Yeah. I thought of a title for this podcast, John. Finishing well. Finishing well.
John Milham (Host) · 48:54
Finishing well. That's a ripper. Absolute ripper.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 48:57
I love it.
John Milham (Host) · 48:58
And of course, finishing well is important in a podcast in, you know, in the arc of it as well. So, I think it's really timely you came up with, 'cause I've been pondering what is a great last question to ask, right? And I've, you know, I figure, you know, something affirming, something appreciative of the great conversation, right? And I think as we come to the end of our chat, which has been amazing, but I figured I might, you know, have to go back to the quirkiness that, you know, like the, you know, the goods, the GSOH, right? So I would, I would say with all, as an old Australian, with all of this power of living, um, which is, you know, your superpowers of wisdom and learning, um, what would you recommend, uh, people do, you know, like when the zombie apocalypse hits, what would be important for us to respond, how to respond to the zombie apocalypse?
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 49:59
Wow. Never been asked that before. It's interesting when things like in World War II, the level of connection and the support for one another just went up. Suicide rates went way down.
John Milham (Host) · 50:11
Yeah.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 50:12
And it went from, oh, um, oh, the terrible, the Germans came and bombed us last week to, oh, Mrs. Brown's got this new recipe for, for this that doesn't need these products that you haven't got available. So I would, I would talk about that. Let's, let's, as a community, let's get together. Let's see how we can handle this. Let's work out the roles and the responsibilities and let's, what people need and support, all that sort of stuff. Now you said GSOH, can I leave you with a, just one of a number of stories? So we met some friends in America, in Montana. And they're driving us around all these old sites, these old Western sites, you know, Wild Bill Hickok was over here or whatever. Anyway, we're going, we arrive in this town, we're walking down on the wooden sidewalks and, you know, someone was hung there, he got shot here. And we finish up in this little restaurant type thing, saloon. And it's one of the oldest saloons there. And on the board, they've got the menu, and on the menu was Cornish pasties. And I said to the waitress when she came to take the order, now, what are your Cornish pasties like? No, and she told— she said, oh yeah, they're good. So I ordered one of them. And then when she came back after the meal to collect the plates, and this is my terrible attempt at American accent, well, how did you think of our Cornish pasties? I said, oh, they're just like my mum used to make. Wow, that is so nice of you to say that. I said, not really. My mom was a terrible cook. And the, the whole restaurant, cuz they listened to this conversation, for some reason Americans love hearing Australian accent. Everyone cracked up. So it's that sort of, that humor, uh, that, uh, and builds connection as well. It's important.
John Milham (Host) · 52:10
So I, I, That's great. I can see you telling that joke to the zombies as they charge over and of course they'd all drop dead hearing that, you know, the dad joke would have the desired impact to free the community. So thank you, Ian. Thank you for the chat today. And of course, thank you for your service to your community. Thank you for you deciding to keep going when times got tough, your persistence. And your legacy. And thank you for being a terrific role model as an older Australian for us guys moving into that category as slowly and as painfully as we can manage.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 52:55
So John, thank you so much for the opportunity to share it. I love the work you're doing and on behalf of Kintsugi Heroes, thank you for what you do.
John Milham (Host) · 53:04
Ah mate, thank you. Well, that That's another Kintsugi Heroes podcast in the bank. So again, mate, thank you very much and good luck getting old.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 53:18
Cheers. Thanks, John.
John Milham (Host) · 53:22
Thank you for listening to this episode of Connecting Seniors, a Kintsugi Heroes special series. Thank you to Colin Lilley for permission to use Broken as our theme music for this series.
Ian Westmoreland (Guest) · 53:36
If you enjoyed this conversation, share the podcast with a friend and let us know by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
John Milham (Host) · 53:47
If you'd like to support Kintsugi Heroes and the stories we share, head to kintsugiheroes.com.au and follow the instructions to make a tax-deductible donation. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.
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