Fabiola Campbell · 70 min
Fabiola Campbell's journey from confidently arriving in Australia with an Australian passport to confronting the 'death of the superwoman' reveals how migration can silently strip away identity, and how reclaiming every hidden part of yourself becomes an act of radical courage.
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Fabiola Campbell arrived in Australia with an Australian passport, convinced she was coming home. Within ten minutes at the airport, a security officer's reaction to her accent shattered that belief. She wasn't Australian enough. What followed was the slow disappearance of the woman she had been in Venezuela: bold, articulate, funny, fluent in Spanish. Without her language, her credentials from back home meant nothing. Her accent became the one thing she could not hide, the marker that immediately told strangers she was a migrant. For years, she tried to erase it.
But Fabiola's shame did not come from Australians rejecting her. It came from somewhere deeper. Looking back at her childhood in Venezuela, she recognised that she had internalised colonial thinking, ranking European migrants as worthy and Latin American migrants as less. When she became a migrant herself in an Anglo-Saxon country, she applied that same lens to herself. Learning about intersectionality and systemic barriers helped her understand that her struggles were not personal failures. But understanding the system was not enough. She had to shift from seeing herself as deficient to recognising her own strengths. Finding role models who looked and sounded like her made possibility feel real.
Fabiola reclaimed the boldness of her younger self, but integrated it with the empathy and compassion she learned through migration. She developed the DARE method: detect what you are feeling, acknowledge it without judgment, then decide whether you need to reclaim a hidden part of yourself or take responsibility for evolving. Her advice to newly arrived migrant women is to trust time, own every part of who you are, and show up with authenticity. When you own who you are, nobody can use it against you.
“minimizing my accent became my goal”
“I was projecting that lens of colonization into the way I regard people”
“I realized that I was really angry at the part of myself that I have chosen to hide”
The hero, today
Fabiola came to Australia as an Australian citizen on paper but discovered within ten minutes that others did not see her that way, and that discovery fractured a core part of her identity. The shame Fabiola felt about her migrant status did not come from Australians telling her she was not good enough; it came from internalised colonial thinking that ranked certain migrants as more worthy than others. Understanding that systems of oppression made things harder for her was clarifying, but Fabiola realised she had to shift from a deficit mindset to a strength-based one if she wanted to move forward. When Fabiola found herself angry at Miley Cyrus for taking up space, she understood she was actually angry at herself for choosing to stay small and hide parts of her own identity. Owning who you are means accepting the parts of yourself that cannot change, like your accent, while also taking responsibility for the parts that do not serve you and choosing to evolve them.
Yes. Fabiola Campbell is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Fabiola came to Australia as an Australian citizen on paper but discovered within ten minutes that others did not see her that way, and that discovery fractured a core part of her identity.
The shame Fabiola felt about her migrant status did not come from Australians telling her she was not good enough; it came from internalised colonial thinking that ranked certain migrants as more worthy than others.
Understanding that systems of oppression made things harder for her was clarifying, but Fabiola realised she had to shift from a deficit mindset to a strength-based one if she wanted to move forward.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 00:01
Fabiola Campbell, welcome to the podcast From There to Here.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 00:05
Thank you so much, Emma, for having me. It is a pleasure to have this conversation with you. I'm really excited.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 00:13
Yes, me too. And I'm really excited because you are about to release your book titled Own It, and you generously shared with me a draft which I read the other day, and there is so So much to unpack here. So I'm really happy to use this episode to dissect the richness of this book and all the very interesting themes that you've explored.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 00:36
That will be a pleasure. Yes. I don't know what we're going to get out of this, but, you know, curious also to understand what piqued your curiosity about the book. So yes, let's do it.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 00:49
Yeah. Well, I guess you're going to hear all about it. So Fabiola, as the founder and CEO of Professional Migrant Woman, you've helped thousands of women overcome the critical issues that they face in the workplace. And that's because you know firsthand what it's like to be a newly arrived migrant. So I think a perfect way for us to start the interview would be for you to share a little bit about your backstory, what motivated you to become a leading voice in this space. But you know what, I think that we should start with the pain point. Bring us back to this period of your life where who you thought you were, the strength that you thought you possessed, suddenly vanished by the simple fact of becoming a migrant.
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When Fabiola found herself angry at Miley Cyrus for taking up space, she understood she was actually angry at herself for choosing to stay small and hide parts of her own identity.
This conversation includes the superwoman arrives, ten minutes at the airport, the death of the superwoman, the luggage lost in transit, the accent she wanted to erase and where the shame came from.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 01:37
Hmm. Yeah. So I actually call that the death of the superwoman, because I think when you choose to migrate to a country, not because you are escaping anything, not because somebody's pushing you out of your country, maybe to do it because you are curious or because you are adventurous, you require a certain set of skills or personality traits to, to take that leap and to go and explore a new territory, right? And those traits that I used to have back then in Venezuela, made me feel really independent and adventurous, risk-taking, you know, all of these things. I had this attitude that I could do anything I wanted, you know, that I could eat up the world, if you like. And I think, you know, you need some of that when you choose to take this big step. I came to Australia and I came by myself. I didn't know how to speak English, but if I didn't have that strength, that conviction that I could not only survive here, but to thrive, probably I wouldn't have taken the leap. Right. So, and I call that woman the Superwoman because she thought she could do it all. Mind you, I also have to caveat this. When I came to Australia, I came with an Australian passport because I was born here. And that meant that, you know, I, I didn't have to jump all of those hoops that migrants have to jump and to get through. So I came to Australia with a passport as an Australian citizen. So I was, you know, an Australian child coming back home. That's how I felt. Because I was born here and I only spent 6 months since birth in Australia. And then my parents went back to Venezuela, but my parents were so, they loved Australia so much. And especially my dad was so proud that I was born here in Australia, even though they are Venezuelan. And, you know, I grew up speaking Spanish in a Venezuelan home. With all that cultural richness and everything, in my head, I was Australian. I was an Australian through and through. So I came to Australia by myself with an Australian passport that made me an Australian citizen with that belief that I was an Australian. And within the first 10 minutes of my arrival, I had the first shock to my system. And some of those beliefs started to crack, you know. So what happened was I didn't know how to speak English. I went to the immigration checkpoint and the security person reads my card and, and I have put in there profession criminologist, citizenship Australian. And then he started talking to me and he said something that I couldn't understand. And I was very nervous, you know, just arriving in Australia, very excited, but also very confused, a long trip and I said to him in my best broken English, I'm sorry, I don't speak English very well. Could you please speak slower? And you could see the frustration in his face. He wasn't happy with my answer. And, and he mumbled a few things in there and I only could make up something like, like, blah, blah, blah. So how come you said that you are Australian? 'And you are a criminologist, but you don't speak English.' And to me, you know, at that moment, something broke inside me. Somebody was telling me, 'You're not Australian.' So that belief that I held for so long kind of cracked open in that moment. And that was a belief that was really tied to my identity. So I started crying and he let me in. But at that moment, I realized that I wasn't as Australian as I thought I was and that I was in fact a migrant. And that was later, you know, confirmed by many other experiences that I had. But that moment in particular, had a big impact for me.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 06:36
I guess so, because it was the first encounter with Australia, right? And the first encounter with Australia was for you, you are a migrant, you are not who you say you are, you are not Australian enough.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 06:52
Correct. Correct. And, you know, looking back at that time, I realized that, for example, here in Victoria, 51% of residents in Victoria are either from a migrant background or have a parent who is a migrant, right? So it wouldn't be uncommon that people come with an Australian passport and they don't know how to speak English anyway. So yeah, it was a It was a shock. It was a big wake-up, but that was my first experience in Australia.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 07:34
And tell me about the grieving process of grieving your own self, you know, grieving your past identity, the things that made you, you in Venezuela that basically just had no relevance in your new context.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 07:52
Oh yeah. So, you know, when I was talking about the superwoman, that woman who could do it all, you know, who was adventurous, who put herself forward, who spoke up, who put her hand up, who told jokes and made people laugh, um, you know, that woman was slowly disappearing. I mean, here's the other thing, because I didn't know how to speak English. All of those personality traits that I mentioned before are also tied to your language or your language skills. So when you lose your ability to communicate big things or small things, like, you know, your needs. Or just a simple joke, you understand that, that something in you is lost. And that's why I call that the death of the Superwoman, because that Superwoman was no longer around me. Right. And that for me was, as you said, was a long mourning process, but it was also interesting because it took me a while to recognize that death. So it's like that part of me was dying inside me slowly. I couldn't express myself the way I was used to. I couldn't assert myself. That person wasn't there anymore, and probably I was the one who was more aware about that. And the thing is that I really, really loved that part of myself, especially now that I didn't have it, right?
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 09:48
Yeah, you were missing it.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 09:50
I was missing that part of me very much. And yeah, it's like breaking up with, you know, a partner or missing a friend. Yeah, it was that separation that I didn't prepare for.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 10:08
Yeah. And what I think makes it quite unique to the migrant experience, and you touch on this in your book, is that you arrive in a country where no one knows this person you were before. And so you are grieving alone. You know, you are the only one mourning that person that no one knows about. And the second thing that I think is really interesting is that In addition to being a stranger in a foreign country, you become a stranger to yourself.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 10:42
100%. 100%. And that touches on the second point of loss, which is your loss of social capital. Yeah. So if we go back to identity and the identity of that superwoman, that identity was also attached to some cultural and social points back in Venezuela, right? So in Venezuela, if I said that I started in this university or that I went to this school or that I was my dad's daughter or my auntie's niece, or, you know, you know, there is a social context that explains who you are without necessarily saying it, right? So the city where I grew up, you know, all of these things carry some meaning, right? And a friend of mine, her name is Jenny, she used to explain this experience as putting all of those things in your luggage and that piece of luggage getting lost in transit. So when you arrive into the new country, you lose all of that social capital. So when you said, oh, I work for this firm, or I went to this university, people really didn't know anything about it. They didn't have any context.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 12:12
Yeah, it didn't carry the same importance, you know, they're like, oh yeah, whatever, you know, it means nothing to them.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 12:18
No. And all of the things, all of the achievements that I was very proud of didn't mean anything to people here. And then it was about, okay, how can I translate this? You know, but I didn't think about that back then. But there are ways of doing it.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 12:35
And that leads us to a point where I think that all this loss of identity brings a lot of shame around being a migrant, right? And for you, for years, I think you were ashamed of that migrantness. How did that manifest in day-to-day life? Were you trying to minimize or keep, you know, the parts that made you a migrant less noticeable? Yeah.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 13:01
So we know that Australia is a very multicultural place and if we go out on the street, probably most of us can blend in, right, as somebody who was born here or grew up in here or something. But the one thing that we cannot hide is our accent, right? So, you know, I can walk into a room and I can feel comfortable up to the moment that I have to speak that I have to say something and people could hear my accent. So minimizing my accent became my goal. I just wanted to blend in. I just wanted to fit in. I, I was tired of hearing people saying, oh, you have such a beautiful accent. I didn't want that. I didn't want to stand out for having a beautiful accent because this is the other thing. That was the other part of my identity in Venezuela. I was really good at Spanish. You know, I was university educated. I started my professional life in there and I had really good proficiency and command of the Spanish language. Losing that again is a a big part of that loss of identity, right? From writing an email to starting a water cooler conversation, to trying to tell a story of what happened to you on the weekend and struggling to deliver the punchline, you know, all of those things went back. In my case, they all went back to my command of the English language and especially my accent. And I really, really wanted to get rid of it. But, you know, as you can hear, even now, after 21 years of living in Australia, I still have an accent. And it is a very marked accent. People know as soon as I speak that I'm a migrant. And that is so okay for me right now. I wouldn't have it any other way right now. But back then, that was the thing that I wanted to get rid of the most.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 15:33
And do you think that you internalized being less? I know that there is a part in your book when you get to question what made you feel less, you know? And you touch on what are the messages in society that we pick up on to make us feel less, and in your case, make you feel less as a migrant, but also as a Latina, you know?
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 16:01
So where did that come from? Yeah, look, I think that was an interesting realization that I had, I don't know, about 5, 6 years ago. Again, still ashamed about my accent because I felt that being a migrant, like you said, was a synonym of being less of, right? Then I started to question those ideas and I started to look back into my childhood and I had two neighbors. One was an Italian one and the other one was German. Also, we had a friend who was Spanish. So they all have accents different to the Venezuelan accent. And you could argue the German and the Italian, they had a really strong accent, right? But I look up to them in admiration. They were not only respected in our family and our community. They were also loved and not because of their accent or anything, but because of who they were. The accent was secondary. That didn't matter. Well, like I knew they had an accent, but, but I never consciously thought of them as less of because they had an accent. And that's when I thought about, okay. So if I didn't think that these people were less of because they had an accent, how come I think that about myself? Where am I getting these ideas from? Right? To be quite honest, nobody here in Australia told me that my accent was bad or anything other than my experience at the airport, but that's understanding I didn't know how to speak English and okay. So where was I getting those ideas from? And then, you know, I kept thinking about it, and then I realized something else. Even though I did admire the Germans, the Spanish, Spaniards, the Italians, the Portuguese people, there were other kind of migrants in Venezuela that we didn't appreciate in the same way. And those migrants were the Latin American ones. There was especially a big community of Colombians in Venezuela, but there were also Peruvians and Chileans. And those migrants were not appreciated as much in Venezuela, and we kind of looked down on them. And again, and I was thinking, why? Why? Even myself, I hold people on different scales, I suppose. Right. And after so many years living here and learning about colonial systems of power and these kinds of dynamics, I realized that these beliefs were very deeply ingrained in my unconscious because I held in high regard those people that came from Europe and you could say colonizing countries. And I didn't appreciate the people that came from underdeveloped countries. Or other Latin American countries. So what I realized was that I was projecting that lens of colonization into the way I regard people. Therefore, when I, as a Latin American person, became a migrant in an Anglo-Saxon country, I immediately attached those labels into myself. And that was the internalized racism and colonization that I didn't know I had until I could see it, you know, for myself and I could let go of it and say, well, you know, this is me, this is my accent. It's time to embrace it because it's not going away. And I am the best version of myself, even with this accent.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 20:36
When did you realize that you had internalized racist kind of view of there are prestigious migrants who are more worthy and some that are non-white and less worthy of, I guess, recognition? Where do you think it originated?
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 20:55
Yes, I think it originated in that Eurocentric influence and also North American, by the way. So in Venezuela, we were very influenced by North America. And so I think that's where it comes from. You know, they were the role models to follow if we aspire to be someone. And I, as a Latin American person, unconsciously, I felt that I was falling short of that ideal. That is on one side, but this is the other side that I found very interesting. I also realized that that projection that I had about migrants or that perception that I have about migrants, I could see in other areas of society, but also in the system. So very interesting to know that if you come from certain countries where English is the first language, where you have done all your education in English, say places like South Africa or Jamaica or Fiji, India, including India, you still have to do English tests, even if that's the only language that you've spoken in your life. Yeah. You have to do English proficiency tests when you are a migrant, you know, say to get a job or to get to university, whatever it is. But if on the other hand, you come from certain other countries, you know, you don't have to do that, say from the UK or the US. Or New Zealand, for example, right? So how come there are here two different kinds of migrants again? I mean, I know all of them speak English as a first language, right? So what is the difference? And again, I think it went back to this colonization mindset that I experienced myself.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 22:47
There is a suspicion that they may not be as good.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 22:52
Aha. A presupposition.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 22:55
Yeah.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 22:55
Right. Then I also find something that was really eye-opening for me. I realized that certain migrants didn't describe themselves as migrants. They described themselves as expats. And, you know, I thought, oh, that was interesting. You know, so I started questioning that and probably in a cheeky way. Ah, so, oh, so you are an expat. When are you going back home? I said, no, no, no, no. I live here permanently. Oh, so you migrated to Australia. So you are a migrant. No, no, no, an expat. Well, an expat is someone who spends a period of time away from their country, right? And you know, You could see, you could see how the pin was dropping and they did not like to be identified as migrants. And again, these are people who come from certain countries, you know, usually the Americans, usually the British and some European countries as well. So they had the same perception, but you know, they managed that in a different way. So I think this is why it's important to understand where those beliefs come from, because once we look at those beliefs and we analyze them and we see them for what they really are, they can't play— they don't have that hold of ourselves anymore, you know. We can release them, we can release them, and, and we will be freed from those ideas, those beliefs that make us smaller.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 24:41
Mm.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 24:44
Yeah.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 24:44
And on that, there is something that I think is really interesting about your transition from feeling powerless to owning it again. You said in your book that there was a moment in your life in Australia where you realized the intersectional systemic barriers that many migrant women face. And that gave you a language, that gave you the knowledge you needed to understand your experience with clarity, what was going on in the background, how the system was not designed for migrant women to succeed at the same level. You know, we are not on the same level field as locals, but that knowledge, focusing on what you lacked, was actually not disempowering, but you felt like there was a need for a shift from what you lacked to what you had, what you can do, the scope of your possibility, rather than, okay, it sucks to be a migrant. And that was more empowering.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 25:55
Yes. So sometimes I felt, well, if I, if I try harder, then I will have the opportunities that I want. If I spend more hours, if I do more training, if I just keep doing and doing and doing and doing, one day people will realize the value that I have, the things that I can do, what I can give, and they will value me, right? Then I learned about this concept of intersectionality. And for those that are unfamiliar with this concept, basically it's the idea that when one or more systems of oppression converge into one identity will create barriers for the individual to progress or flourish in society. And what are examples of these systems of oppression? Well, racism, ageism, sexism, and all of those things that ends with isms, you know, ableism, So basically, according to this concept, that there are certain groups in society that have it harder, you know, for example, women or people with disabilities, or in Australia, Aboriginal Australians, depending on the context, right? So if you have two or more traits from that list, then it will be like a compounding effect. It will make it even harder and harder and harder for you. So yes, as a woman, I knew I had a disadvantage. And then also as a migrant, as a person with an accent, a person who looks like me. So even though, you know, I suppose the darker your skin, the more disadvantaged you are. And all of that have a compounding effect. When I learned about that concept, it gave me a lot of clarity. It gave me that realization, ah, so it's not just me and it doesn't matter what I do. This is not going to make it better. It's the system, you know, that is not built to accommodate all of this diversity. So that was the first realization. And I thought that was really powerful. It was a different way of looking at the world and understand that I wasn't at fault, even though I was trying and doing my very best. But the other realization that I had was that I could not stay with that thought of deficiency. I mean, that is a very important concept to understand systems of power, but also to address those inequalities and to create opportunities. But from the individual point of view, me personally, I felt that if I kept stuck with that deficit mindset, I wasn't going to move forward. So I recognized, acknowledged those parts of my identity, but I also started to focus on the strengths that I had. So I started to change my mindset from a deficit mindset to a strength-based mindset?
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 29:20
You know how I like to think about it? Let's take the metaphor of cards and playing a game. You cannot change the cards you've been dealt with, right? The cards you've been dealt with are gonna orient the game you're gonna be able to play, but you still have a scope of possibility and you can play many different games within that scope of possibility. And So it orients the game, but it does not determine the game. So I think that, yes, the cards you've been dealt with are going to have an impact in your life, and I think we shouldn't minimize their importance. You know, a lot of people are like, oh yeah, you can do whatever, go girl. No, you know, some people have it harder, and that's true, that's a fact, right? But they do not determine what you can possibly do in life. They just have an influence, but there is still a scope of possibility for you to act on. And I think that shifting this is important for you to shift from, okay, it sucks to be whatever, migrant, for instance, to how can I make that a strength? How can I, what are my strengths?
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 30:34
Yeah, 100%. And if I can expand on that metaphor that you just used, If we are playing a game of cards, it's also about understanding what advantages the other players have. I mean, do we all start from the same point? Do we all have the same number of cards, or there are some people that have more or less cards? And I think that's when the concept of equity comes in handy because it's about giving people the opportunities to sit at the table and to play a fair game, right? That's number one. But number two is about making sure that the people that are sitting on that table also understand or have experience similar to yours, because they will teach you how to play the game. They will teach you how to win. And they will open opportunities for you. So I think that's very important, understanding who are you surrounded by and who are the people that you want to play with as well. Yeah. And, and that's why I think that what made it really possible for me to change that mindset into possibility was to surround myself with people that sounded and looked like me, role models that sounded and looked like me, people who believe, women who believe that this was possible. And guess what? There are great, great role models out there. Professional migrant women leading in all areas of life. It's about having equal representation. Equal visibility so everybody can have the same opportunities.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 32:30
Yeah, you're right. Definitely the mindset is important in changing your attitude to see the strengths and what are the choices you have available, but as well surrounding yourself by people who have already taken the path that can help you expand your range of possibilities.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 32:50
Yeah. And having more role models with, you know, women with accents.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 32:55
Yeah.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 32:56
Amazing. That was one of my turning points as well. When I saw somebody like me, oh my God, are you allowed? Yeah. Is that a possibility for you? Can you do that?
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 33:08
And I think we can prevent ourselves from doing such important work when we don't see people like us. I'm going to give you an example. Before I started the podcast, I was really hesitant because I was like, but I do not know any podcast, or I do not listen to any podcast with women that have an accent. There is like one that I saw later on, but when I started, I was like, oh my gosh, everyone is going to hate my voice and everything. They're never going to listen more than 2 seconds because I was not used to seeing women taking up the space with an accent. In that particular role. So it can really lead you to not do something that would make you grow and would make you flourish just because you think, okay, no one like me is doing it.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 33:57
Yeah. So it's very interesting what you said, Emma, because you also have your hesitations about your accent.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 34:03
Yeah.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 34:04
You know, but then again, it's really useful to question this. Why? You know, Why is this a problem? Again, in my mind, a professional should sound in a certain way, and my accent didn't fit that mental model that I had until I challenged it and until I embraced it. Because now, you know, I am a worthy professional, even with this accent. And I know so many others anyway. I am surrounded by amazing professionals that have beautiful accents. Yeah. Like you.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 34:48
You know, it's so funny when we think who did determine what professional look like and sound like, you know, it's funny, all these messages that we've internalized that being very stern and very confident in a very masculine way was the way to be professional, you know? And it takes so much work to unlearn that.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 35:12
Yes. Another important moment for me in my process of owning, you know, every part of myself was when I was able to reconnect with the superwoman that I used to be. And bring her back into my now and also introduce her with the new version of myself. If the Superwoman was strong and risk-taker and adventurous, the new version of me was more empathetic and compassionate and kind. And I feel that to connect with others in a way that builds meaningful connections, you have to be in touch with those parts of yourself, you know, the soft parts. And you need the superwoman as well to face the challenges that you have in your life, right? So now I feel that I have been able to integrate those two parts of me. And, and yes, it's like feeling whole again, you know, and at peace with the person who I believe I am.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 36:40
I love that, integrating the old and past identity to feel whole again. And this is such a process. You need to go into those challenges in life to acquire qualities that your older self that was in the familiarity of their own country would have never learned or would have not needed to learn, you know. In your book, you said, you know, this superwoman, yes, she was bold, she was confident, she was relentless, but she probably didn't know the power of sorority, sisterhood, compassion, how it feels like to be powerless, you know. And all of these things, you can't learn them from a book. You can't know how it feels unless unless you really get into that position. But then being able to bring your strength back as well and bring those two forces, those two energies in you is really important, you know, but they also bring strength in their own way. It's just that they are different strengths.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 37:44
Correct. They are different strengths. And I suppose the superwoman came back when I was confident in the way that I could express myself. Even, and this is the beauty of this process. Now I'm able to express myself, not as I used to in Spanish, but I still can express myself right now. It is the compassion and the empathy of this new version of myself that allows me to be okay with that process. Process. The Superwoman was very, very judgmental of that, but this new version of myself that understands the struggle of learning a new language and living in a new country has that softness that allows her to express herself as a whole, not leaving any part of her behind.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 38:44
I love that. What you say makes me think that we really have different personas and they can interact with one another. You know, it's as if sometimes your Superwoman needs to take the lead in this situation. Sometimes it's this migrant woman that needs to take the lead, the wiser or more compassionate self. And they all coexist, but they need to coexist pacifically. And you have to be able to be okay, who's the 'best part of myself that I can bring in this situation? Who's the most useful part of myself that I can use here?' And so they're all useful.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 39:21
And absolutely, look, we do that all the time. We change hats all the time. Sometimes I'm a mother and sometimes I'm a friend. Sometimes I'm a daughter. Sometimes I'm a public speaker and sometimes I am a work colleague. And sometimes I'm just nobody laying in my bed meditating in the morning, right? So we take on different identities, or not different identities, but we draw from different parts of our identities at different moments in life. And I think the whole idea of owning owning it is to make sure that we don't leave any of those parts of our identities behind, that we're not ashamed of them, that we understand their complexities and their strengths, and that we call upon those strengths when we need them, or that we ask those parts of ourselves to take a step back when it's not required as well.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 40:29
But there is something else, because in your book, you say something that really got stuck with me. You say that it's important to hold tight to what makes you, you, but also to be able to identify what no longer serves you. So there is a bit of a fine line between self-acceptance and self-complacency where, okay, it's a bit like, I am who I am, take it or leave it. And you need to be able to say, I am who I am, but I am willing to grow so that I can be better for myself, better for others, better for society. And it's important to not be stuck in this, this is who I am, because okay, there is perhaps a seed that is very essential to who you are, many different parts, and it's messy and it's okay, but there also are parts that you can question and you can change and you need to change.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 41:26
100%, and I think owning who we are has two paths that we need to travel. One is the path of self-acceptance and owning those parts of us that we want to hide because we are ashamed of, because they make us feel afraid, like for example, the, our accents, right? So owning those parts and embrace them with love and care because they are part of who we are, that, that's not going to change. So that is one path, but the other path is about mastering ourselves and evolving. And those are the parts, like you said before, those are the parts that don't serve us, don't serve others, and don't serve the greater good. For example, say if I have a bad temper Oh, if I know that certain foods are not good for me, but I still choose to eat those foods, you know, well, if it's not good for you, if it doesn't serve you, what is the point of keep going on that path? Right. You can always choose to change. You can always choose to stop, take stock and say, well, this behavior doesn't serve me anymore. You know, this anger that I have. Doesn't serve me, doesn't serve others. And I can't just say, oh well, this is who I am, leave it or take it, you know. No, that's not, that's not owning it, you know. Owning it in that context is about being responsible, being responsible for your actions and reframing how you want to show up in the world. In a way that again is good for you, good for others, and good for the greater good. I think that if your actions in the world is not serving all of those things, probably it's worth reevaluating them, you know, and think what is the better path.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 43:40
Yeah, we can't use identity as an excuse not to evolve.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 43:43
No. Yeah, that's right. So even though identity is such an important part of who we are, there's always room to grow. And I think that's also an important perspective that we need to take into account.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 44:00
Something that I want to talk about is daring, because it's such an important theme in your book and I really love it. Daring to take up space, daring to speak up, daring to be bigger. And this comes when we brave the "who do you think you are" kind of feeling. And for you, I know that there was a moment that made you realize that you were still not taking up the space you wanted to occupy.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 44:34
What was it?
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 44:35
Tell me about that, because I think it's really funny.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 44:39
Are you talking about Miley Cyrus?
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 44:40
Yes, I am.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 44:41
Yes.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 44:44
Yeah.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 44:44
Oh, God. Yeah, I even cover myself because I still think about it and it makes me feel ashamed, embarrassed. But it was an amazing realization for me. So I have been listening to this song from Miley Cyrus for months and months, but I have never seen the video. The song is Wrecking Ball. And at a birthday party, a friend of mine says to me, oh, have you heard this song? And I say, yeah, I love it. And he also says, have you watched the video? And I said no. And he looked at me with a, you know, cheeky smile in his face and just waiting to see my reaction. He showed me the video, and when I saw the video, uh, I was in shock. And I was thinking, what is this? I mean, all I knew about Miley Cyrus was that that she was a Disney star, you know, that she had a show called Hannah Montana that all the, I don't know, the kids loved or whatever. So the image that I had about Miley Cyrus was this innocent girl, which is not what she was portraying in On That Wrecking Ball, right? And the first reaction for me was like, Why? Why is she doing that? This is, this is, this has gone too far. So all, all the judgments came into my head, and even I went back home and, and I was still angry. I was still really angry about the fact that she have done all of these, you know, and jump naked in that wrecking ball and showing herself. And I was thinking, why? What does she need to do this? What does she need to prove? How dare she? How dare she doing this? And I browse for about, I don't know, 40 minutes, an hour, going from one website to another, getting more and more angry about all of these things that she was doing to to separate herself from her, you know, all identity as a Disney star or something. And I, I, I was just angry. And even, you know, just telling the story right now, I can feel those sensations in my body. But then, you know, when I was like 40 minutes into it I had a much deeper realization, and that's when I said, you know, that I feel so ashamed. Because what I realized was that I wasn't angry at Miley for doing that. I wasn't angry at Miley for jumping naked into a wrecking ball for the world to see. I realized that I was really angry at the part of myself that I have chosen to hide. I was actually sad after that, that for years and years of conditioning I chose to minimize some parts of me. And as I came to this realization, I, I realized that there was nothing wrong with Miley. And in fact, Miley gave me the opportunity to see those parts of myself that I was hiding. And by her jumping into that wrecking ball, she wrecked something inside me. She broke something inside me and allowed me to bring those parts of myself that had been hidden for a long time. Yeah. My accent, my migraines, my way of speaking with my hands, or whatever it is, you know, the way I connect with other people, those parts of myself that I have been minimizing, and many others, by the way. And the beauty of that is that it's a continuous process, because the more I am aware of these, the more I realize, oh, this is another part of myself. That I'm hiding. Maybe it is time for me to let it show.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 49:48
So it's not "How dare she?" It's more, "Why don't I dare more? Why don't I dare to be seen more? Why don't I dare to stop being small?" Yes, yes.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 50:04
All of those questions that I was projecting onto Mylene, "Why dare she?" 'How dare she? Why is she doing that?' Then they become a self-talk. You know, it was like, 'Oh, how come I don't dare?' You know, 'Why I can't do this?' You know, and yeah, I think that is the beauty of self-reflection and creating space to look into ourselves, to put a mirror into ourselves and really allow us the space to be okay with that, to remove shame from that. I mean, as I said before, you know, I feel really ashamed when I realized what was going on, but shame is actually like any other feeling, you know, is an indicator. I mean, it can help you move from, or process those feelings and move into a place where you actually really want to be. It can give us opportunities to improve, to analyze, to empathize. So all feelings are just indicators, but they don't have to be part of our identity.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 51:16
I love that. And I think as well, you say shame, but I think there is more to it. I think it's when we feel jealousy, when we are so passionately, how can they do this and criticize something? Someone is triggering us in a way, tells more about us than it tells about them and whatever behavior they are displaying.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 51:40
Yeah, well, there is a principle of psychology that says perception is projection and the opposite is true. Projection is perception. So according to that principle, I cannot see something that I don't have inside myself. So if I think that person is mean, it's because I am mean. Or if I think that that person is brilliant, it's because there's also brilliance inside me, right? So perception is projection. So I think that's another way to recognize when I have to dig a little bit deeper, you know. Oh, I'm having this feeling here. Okay. It's just a feeling. It doesn't mean that it's right or wrong. It's just a feeling. Let's explore this feeling to see where it takes me.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 52:37
Let's be curious about it.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 52:39
Let's be curious. Um, so why am I jealous about this person? Right. Oh, because she has a better job than me. Okay. Does it mean that I want a better job? What can I do to get a better job? You know, this person is very annoying because she speaks too much. Oh, do I want to speak more? Do I want to be heard more? Do I want to take space? So what is it about that person that is triggering something inside me? And what is that telling me about myself? So I think that that is a tool that is really, really useful when it comes to owning the process, I suppose.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 53:30
Tell us about the DARE method, because I know that you came up with a method that helped people own their identity with more Clarity and Courage. Tell us more about that.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 53:42
Well, I was just trying to think about how did I go about all of these processes in my life? How did I deconstruct these feelings and turn them into something that were more sustainable? And again, that they were better for me, for others, and for the greater good. And so writing all the things that I do, I managed to get an acronym together to explain this, and this, this is the D.A.R.E. acronym. And D stands for detect, and detect is about what we just talked about. Pay attention, pay attention to the feelings. What is happening right now? But do that with a curious mind, not with a judgmental one. So, oh, I'm feeling jealous, or I'm feeling envious, I'm feeling challenged right now. Stay with that, recognize, label that feeling, right? So that is the first step, is about detecting. The second step is about acknowledging. And again, without judgment, you say, yep, I am feeling jealous about this person because— and you fill out the blank— because everybody listens to her when she speaks, because she has a better job than me, whatever it is. Okay, I acknowledge that feeling, then I turn that into myself, and this is where the two paths will diverge. Do I— so that's the R of the acronym— do I have to reclaim or do I have to take responsibility? So if I'm jealous about this person because of the way she speaks, do I have to reclaim my accent? Do I have to own my accent? Or do I have to take responsibility? Maybe I need to improve my vocabulary. Maybe I need to improve my writing, my reading. What are the things that I can do, right? And then the E of the acronym there is for embody. So once you go through that process, Once you reclaim or take responsibility for those parts of yourself, you embody that new person and you show up with clarity and with confidence.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 56:34
When was the last time you used the DARE method on yourself?
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 56:39
Ah, look, I think this is a day-by-day thing. Some days I can catch myself doing that and I can go for a few days without thinking about it, but it is very useful when emotions are high, right? And when they are not positive, that's when I go back to the DARE method and I start to question. If I am happy, if I am excited, if I am thriving in the moment, life is good, right? So probably there's no need for self-correction. But when I feel challenged or when I feel uncomfortable, I always remember that there's something that I can do, that there is something within my control. And that's when I go back to the D.A.R.E. model and I choose to show up for myself.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 57:32
Fabiola, do you have any final advice for migrants out there? Especially migrant women who've perhaps, you know, are in the beginning of their migration phase and they've internalized they are too much or they're not enough. What is an advice you wish someone had given you that would have helped you improve quicker?
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 57:56
I guess I could mention a few things. Number one is time. And while we have a lot of tools, to improve ourselves, the most useful resource that we have is time. And sometimes we just want to go through time really fast, but time is a friend and it helps us process the lessons that we have to learn. It helps us incorporate those lessons. So My first advice is don't try to win the race against time. One, you're not gonna win it, but two, when you are trying to do that, you're gonna miss the most important things about that, which are the experiences, the lessons, the learnings, the insights. So that will be the first one. And the second one is this idea that basically inspired the title of my book. So I heard somebody saying that when you own every part of who you are, nobody can use it against you. Be proud. Embrace every aspect of yourself. Work on your skills that can help you grow and show up with authenticity. And I think authenticity, again, is the biggest key. When we show up with authenticity, people can trust who we are, and that opens the doors for connection and, and meaningful relationships.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:00:00
So true, so true. Do you have a book, a movie, a show, or any other piece of content that inspired you lately and that you'd like to recommend to our audience?
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 1:00:14
Oh, You know, for my book, I took inspiration from so many things. Um, but one of the podcasts that I listen to regularly is The Diaries of the CEO because he has so many different guests talking about so many different topics that, yeah, I take a lot of learning from that. And also, so this is not an outside reference, but Journaling. I think journaling is a very good tool for introspection and for giving us the ability to change the things that we want.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:00:57
Yeah. It's like a resource we give to ourselves. So I guess it's not external content, but it's internal content.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 1:01:05
Absolutely. And so important. Because listening to those conversations in your head and putting them into writing unlocks so many things. So that's a practice that I have. Sometimes something is worrying me or bothering me. Sometimes, you know, I go through this dare process and that part of acknowledging takes longer than what I wish. And Acknowledging is something that you can do in your diary. Start processing those emotions.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:01:40
Yeah. And sometimes you don't know what you feel until you actually write it down. You know, it gives you clarity about where you are at.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 1:01:49
Yes, 100%. And what is also magical is that I reread the things that I write 2, 3 days later, a month later, a year later. And I'm saying, oh, did I write this? And wow, that's deep. That's insightful, you know? So it is surprising as well. So it is a great exercise to listen to the conversations in your head and question them and explore them deeper.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:02:21
I love that. Is there a guest you'd like to hear on the podcast?
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 1:02:27
Is there a guest that I would like to hear in the podcast? Well, again, I have quite a few coming to mind. The women in my community, all of them are amazing. All of them have a beautiful story. So you put me in a very tight spot.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:02:47
Yeah. Some people have described it as like choosing your favorite child, you know?
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 1:02:51
I know.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:02:52
I know.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 1:02:56
Yes, look, all right, I'm going to nominate Kunle. It's a person that I would like to hear from.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:03:05
Who is she?
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 1:03:06
Kunle is, is a coach, is a personal coach. She is my personal coach. I'm a woman that is full of kindness, love, empathy, very smart. And, uh, yeah, there will be so many amazing things that I would like to hear from her.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:03:27
Okay. I'm curious. Two last questions for you, Fabiola. When I say the word migrant, what are the words that instinctively come to mind without overthinking it?
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 1:03:41
Resilience, women, adventure, change.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:03:45
Mm.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 1:03:46
I'll say that.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:03:47
Yeah. And I have a last one question that I actually keep tweaking for every guest. So it's never the same. My last question is, as someone who was born in Australia to Venezuelan parents, then grew up in Venezuela and returned to Australia as an adult to migrate, how do you feel and see your cultural identity today? Do you equally identify to Venezuelan and Australian cultures?
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 1:04:19
That's an interesting question. And I, it's something that I've asked myself in the past and probably have not fully answered. I mean, I'm Venezuelan. I'm Venezuelan. Those are my roots. That's where my family is. A lot of my history identity is tied to that. And I'm also Australian. Again, my early identity was tied to being Australian, but this is where I have taken root. I have my son who was born here. I adopted this country as my home. Nowadays, whenever or wherever I am in the world and I go back home, Australia is where I go back to. So yeah, I think it's both.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:05:21
Yeah.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 1:05:22
Do you feel in between sometimes, or do you feel like, I don't know, I, I just feel that there will be a time where I will be able to go back to Venezuela and, and experience Venezuela again, but right now, this is the time for me to be here. Or it might be later, a different place altogether. Just open to what life brings to you.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:05:50
Do you have a final word to conclude with this beautiful interview? Anything that perhaps we haven't touched on and that you think is important for you to talk about?
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 1:06:02
I think we've touched many things. Um, and there are so many stories in the book that we didn't talk about, but yeah, just as I say in my book, embrace every part of who you are and dare to be you, dare to be seen. I think that's what brings you peace and happiness, fulfillment.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:06:26
Yeah. There to be seen, there to be you. The final word.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 1:06:30
Yes.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:06:31
I love that.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 1:06:32
Yeah, absolutely.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:06:33
Thank you so much, Fabiola. Thank you for sharing with me this draft. I am really looking forward for people to read it because I think it really expresses beautifully the range of emotions, the range of experiences that we live when we become a migrant. There are so many layers to it. And yeah, I think that for anyone who has lived and experienced what it's like to be a migrant, they will feel seen, you know, and they will have a tool to be able to make this experience empowering. So thank you so much for this beautiful interview and for what you have produced for the migrant community.
Fabiola Campbell (Guest) · 1:07:20
Thank you so much, Emma, for having me.
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