Bill Kable
The Second Family: How a Lawyer Found His Children Fifty Years Later
A lawyer turned broadcaster gives fathers a platform after family law took everything from him.
Hear this story
Kintsugi Studio
Bill Kable
A lawyer turned broadcaster gives fathers a platform after family law took everything from him.
Hear this story
Bill Kable is a practicing lawyer fifty years into his career and a fifth-generation descendant of Henry Cable from the First Fleet. For decades, he has navigated fatherhood through fracture: seven years fighting in Family Court for time with his children from his marriage, limited to four days in fourteen despite no accusations ever made against him, followed by ten years of silence after his ex-wife turned them against him. Then, unexpectedly, he was contacted by a man who existed because of a sperm donation Bill made as a student fifty years earlier. That man had a sister too. Bill suddenly had two adult children he had never met, and three new grandchildren.
In 2009, Bill was handed a microphone at a community radio station and asked for his legal perspective on air. That moment became the beginning of his work with Dads on the Air, a program he now hosts and has used to interview nearly 247 people, drawing on his own lived experience of family law, separation, and loss. He has spoken to parents like Chrissy Foster, who lost daughters to abuse and suicide, and others who endured catastrophic loss. Bill sees the Family Court as fundamentally broken, arguing it should return to social workers and mediation rather than being run by lawyers debating whether a child should be picked up at 9:15 or 9:30. He believes the next generation of Australians shows real promise because of their capacity to care.
What matters most now, Bill says, is health, meeting interesting people, and staying engaged with the world. He sees a role for older Australians in mentoring and passing on wisdom, even as he remains clear-eyed about the threats facing humanity. The gold in the cracks, for Bill, has been the unexpected gift of connection: to his biological children, to the hundreds of guests who have trusted him with their stories, and to a community of fathers trying to do right by their kids.
“My jaw hit the floor when I, because the first comment was, you know, he put in his note, uh, you don't know me. Um, I don't know quite how to put this, but you are my father.”
“Family law, I think, you know, really struggles to even be law like, like other areas of the law. I mean, I was, I was a corporate lawyer for most of my career. And, you know, you come to, you come to expect certain things in the way things are done. But family, family court is completely different.”
“I found, uh, the Family Court, even though there was never any, never any accusation made against me of anything, like, you know, there was, they never accused, no one ever accused me of being a drunk or gambler or a womanizer or anything else. Um, but they still wouldn't let me see my children. I was only limited to, the most I ever got was 4 days in 14.”
The hero, today
Bill was contacted by his biological son fifty years after donating sperm, and discovered he had a daughter too, expanding his understanding of fatherhood in ways he never anticipated. The Family Court limited Bill's time with his children from his marriage to four days in fourteen despite no accusations being made against him, and his ex-wife's breaches of court orders went unpunished. Bill sees the Family Court as fundamentally broken and believes it should return to social workers and mediation rather than being run by lawyers focused on narrow procedural disputes. Bill has interviewed 247 people for community radio and draws on his own lived experience of fatherhood, separation, and loss to help guests tell their stories in meaningful depth. Bill thinks the next generation of Australians shows real promise because of their capacity to care, and that older Australians have a responsibility to share wisdom and encourage younger people to get involved in the community.
Yes. Bill Kable is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Bill was contacted by his biological son fifty years after donating sperm, and discovered he had a daughter too, expanding his understanding of fatherhood in ways he never anticipated.
The Family Court limited Bill's time with his children from his marriage to four days in fourteen despite no accusations being made against him, and his ex-wife's breaches of court orders went unpunished.
Bill sees the Family Court as fundamentally broken and believes it should return to social workers and mediation rather than being run by lawyers focused on narrow procedural disputes.
John Milham (Host) · 00:00
This limited Kintsugi Heroes podcast series was made possible through grant funding provided by the New South Wales Department of Communities and Justice Connecting Seniors Grant Program. If you'd like to find out more about Kintsugi Heroes, head to kintsugiheroes.com.au. Welcome to our Kintsugi Heroes special series, Connecting Seniors, where we share the experiences of aging Australians to create connections across our communities. In this episode, John Milham had a chat with Bill Cable, a practicing lawyer and passionate advocate for fathers' rights, bringing his rich background as a 5th generation descendant of Henry Cable, an early Australian. Bill has navigated the complexities of parenthood, family law, and community involvement, offering invaluable insights into the challenges and triumphs of connecting seniors and supporting families. Now let's get to the conversation.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 01:03
So ladies and Ladies and gentlemen and listeners, welcome back to Kintsugi Heroes: Stories That Matter. And today we're working on our Connecting Seniors series. We have a very special person to talk to today, a man who is not unfamiliar with being in an interview and being in a broadcast situation, Bill Cable. Welcome to Kintsugi Heroes, Bill.
John Milham (Host) · 01:30
Well, thank you very much, John. And look, I've been an admirer of Kintsugi Heroes for a long time and it's great to be able to join you.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 01:39
Well, it's so great to have you on today, mate, because I'm hoping today before we get into, say, your story a bit, a bit of background about who Bill Cable is, I'm hoping to work with someone who is vastly experienced at this process we're engaging in today, which is sharing and telling stories and eliciting stories, right? So hopefully we can get to talk a bit about that and you may be able to give me a few pointers, right? So welcome today, Bill. And for the listeners, right? I would say probably the significant thing is that you are a key part of the development of Dads on the Air. And that's a massive network of broadcasting to fathers and men and families, I guess too. We don't restrict who listens to it. So we have to talk about how that works and how your input and how you got there. But more, let's start back at a little bit of background on Bill Cable, right? Rather than me talk about who you are, can I ask you to tell the listeners who Bill Cable is?
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Bill has interviewed 247 people for community radio and draws on his own lived experience of fatherhood, separation, and loss to help guests tell their stories in meaningful depth.
This conversation includes a lawyer who spent fifty years in the law, the beatles, marathons, and a sign about sperm donation, a call from a son he didn't know existed, meeting the young man for the first time, seven years fighting in family court and then ten years of silence and thrown a microphone at a radio station in 2009.
John Milham (Host) · 02:55
Yeah, sure. Well, I'm still a practicing lawyer. I still feel funny when you talk about seniors, but—
Bill Kable (Guest) · 03:01
Yeah, so I put myself in that category and it's so strange, right?
John Milham (Host) · 03:07
But I can't deny I've been practicing as a lawyer for— this is my 50th year as it happens. I'm at a personal level, you know, there are a few interesting things. I'm a 5th generation descendant of Henry Cable, and Henry was on the First Fleet and he finished up having the first marriage in Australia.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 03:29
Wow.
John Milham (Host) · 03:30
And the first lawsuit in Australia. And that's it.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 03:34
That's epigenetic being in the law.
John Milham (Host) · 03:36
Well, some people say we're still on the same line of work, you know, being convict and the lawyer. But he also had the first pub in Australia. So he had, you know, very important in the establishment of Australia. And, uh, I, I, as a child, I seem to be— I feel sometimes like a bit like Forrest Gump, you know, that I was, I was there at some sort of pretty important moments. Um, like, uh, I was, I was at the first, uh, the Beatles' first concert in 1960— in Australia in 1964.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 04:09
Wow.
John Milham (Host) · 04:10
And, um, I went to the first State of Origin game in 1980, and, uh And then over the time, you know, I've— running's always been important. So I've run 5 marathons. Long time ago, I was married in France. So I've got an abiding interest in France. And at the family level, I always find this quite interesting, but many years ago when I was a student, I decided— I'd been a blood donor since 1969, and I think I'm up to about 127 donations, but at one stage, um, there was a sign there asking about sperm donation. And so I got a bit interested in that, and I went and made some donations and didn't think anymore about it for years and years and years. And then about 5 years ago, I got contacted out of the blue, and it turned out that this was from my son who'd been, uh, who'd come from this sperm donation. And it turned out, uh, you know, I got chatting with him and I was going away. So I said, look, I'll give you a call when I get back. And when I called back, he— we were talking and he said, look, there's something else I better tell you. And I said, he said, I've got a sister and you're her father too. So I suddenly, uh, suddenly found I had two new children and now I've got three new grandchildren. Oh, and, and we— my son and I get on really well. But my daughter, you know, I guess you'd expect this. She's never wanted to sort of acknowledge how she was conceived. So I haven't— I've never had a chance to meet with her. But yeah, that was— that's a pretty amazing thing.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 05:56
That is extraordinary. Can I ask you, it's one thing to get a call from an estranged family member, It's another to get a call from an estranged family member you didn't know existed.
John Milham (Host) · 06:08
Yeah.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 06:08
How, how did that feel?
John Milham (Host) · 06:10
It, it, well, you know, my jaw hit the floor when I, because the first comment was, you know, he put in his note, uh, you don't know me. Um, I don't know quite how to put this, but you are my father. Jaw dropped. Then he went on and said, look, um, I don't wanna put any claim on you. I'm, I'm quite independent. I've got in a good relationship and, um, but I just sort of wanted to thank you for my existence. And, uh, yeah. And so it's all strange. And then, you know, like sometime after that, I went out, we went out to dinner and he invited his mother. So I met the mother of my child for the first time, you know, when he was like 30 years old. So that was really, that was unusual.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 06:54
Was that an IVF program?
John Milham (Host) · 06:56
Yeah, it was. It was, um, Royal Hospital for Women. And I think you got paid for expenses to get there to do it. So I think, you know, it was about $20 each time I went, something like that. But it was, uh, yeah, it was your pass of coming back and tapping on the shoulder. I just never expected there was anything like that out there.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 07:19
It's kind of a unique situation. Can, can you tell me, like, did you notice a connection? Because clearly you, you wouldn't have had any nurture in that connection.
John Milham (Host) · 07:29
No.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 07:30
Did you notice a nature connection?
John Milham (Host) · 07:33
I'd like to say so, even just in appearance. But like some people say, he's got a cable head. But I don't, I'm, I'm not really sure. I can't say that, that, I mean, of course I've got two children through my, through marriage. And, and really they're very different from this child. So, um, it's, it's— I can't really point to anything like that. I mean, I, I think of like TV shows, you know, where you see families and nothing looks strange, even though of course none of them are related. And I think it's, it's— I don't know, maybe family resemblances, just sometimes you see them, sometimes you don't. And I don't particularly see it with him. Oh my, oh, my daughter. I've only seen photos of her, but there might be something there. It's hard to tell.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 08:21
What about emotionally? Did you connect with the, with this young man?
John Milham (Host) · 08:25
Well, because I'd never met him before, you know, like we were the first time we arranged to go out for dinner and, you know, he brought his partner and, and I brought mine and, and, uh, you know, I just thought he was an exceptionally nice bloke. I was, you know, I was so So proud of him really. But, um, I, I, it's hard to say. I mean, there was some, there was some sort of linking, but I didn't really feel a great, I'm sure he's the same. There wasn't a great sort of feeling of communion or anything like that.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 08:57
So, and really, you're like, I'm, you know, there shouldn't necessarily be one, right? It's just, you know, yeah, I'm just, you know, interested at the opportunity to review that. So. What a lovely idea. Just on a personal basis, I found, you know, I've met a half sister I didn't know I had recently. And it was such a joy to welcome someone new into my circle, right? Just that the old one was getting a bit stale, I think, right? So it was nice to refresh it. But was that something you felt like it was like another unexpected gift or was it a burden?
John Milham (Host) · 09:37
Well, it certainly wasn't a burden. I always enjoy seeing him, but it's— he's, he's built his own life and he's— I'd have to say, I mean, I would have welcomed him into our family gatherings if he wanted to, but he hasn't actually done that. He's met— he's met me. We've met a lot of times, quite a few times, and he's met my children. And of course, there are a lot of tricky elements here. Like I had to tell my children about this, you know, Yeah, there is actually law in New South Wales to say that, that a child conceived this way can't make a claim on your estate. So, you know, they needn't have worried about, say, you know, losing the money under the will or anything like that. But there— and then I had to tell, you know, my sisters. So there were a lot of— there are a lot of those sort of issues that, that suddenly come up. But I am told, I'm told by the Department of Health, I'm registered with the Department of Health I didn't tell them that I'd already met the children, so they think I don't know anything except that there are two children. And, uh, but anyway, they assured me there are no more, so that was, that was a relief too.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 10:42
Yeah. But yeah, and surprises, uh, are best when they're limited to—
John Milham (Host) · 10:47
I think so.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 10:48
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that, that's fascinating. And of course the idea, like, uh, you know, when you get to a certain age, right, for me it's discussion maybe turns to a little bit of legacy, right? So, you know, when you originally donated, what was your thinking and how has that changed now related to legacy?
John Milham (Host) · 11:10
They told me when I made the donation, there were, there were a few things that they told me that I thought were interesting. One was that the, the doc, the professor said to me, um, you might worry about, about, um, you know, unconscious incest if one of these children happened to meet a married, one of your married children. Later in life. Yeah, but he said, look, you needn't worry about that. And he said, in any case, um, we believe that 1 in 4 children, the, um, that the husband is not the father. That was a bit of a shock.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 11:42
Wow.
John Milham (Host) · 11:43
Uh, so that's, that's what he told me. And, and they also said, look, you know, you'll never hear from these children again. And, and it really amazed me that you know, 30-odd years later that the, um, the hospital that somehow the Department of Health still did have these records even though they, they hadn't, um, then contacted me. But there is now an opportunity in New South Wales where you can, uh, if you can go on a register and if both the, the father and the child are willing, they can arrange a meeting. But it has to be, you know, both parties have to consent.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 12:17
So yeah, it's getting, getting complicated legally as well, I guess. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 12:21
And the mother, the mother didn't know much about me. She knew I was a lawyer. I think she knew I had blonde hair, but, but really there was very little screening done. I think I might have answered a quick questionnaire like, you know, do you have any hereditary diseases? But that was— there was no examination or anything like that. So she, she, I guess, took it on trust. And, you know, the things these women have to go through. I think she had 17 visits before she finally got pregnant. And, um, but then, you know, it worked so well, she went back and said, I want the same father again. So she got the, you know, had the second child.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 12:57
And so, and I, I love the, the drive, the maternal drive in that case, right? IVF obviously is huge these days.
John Milham (Host) · 13:06
So yeah.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 13:07
So yeah, pioneering times.
John Milham (Host) · 13:10
Yeah.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 13:11
But of course that leads to the question, you know, you were telling us about your family and your natural kids, the kids born in marriage, right? Because so, but that wasn't, uh, that was a complicated process as well.
John Milham (Host) · 13:24
Oh yes, well, yes, well, I mean, I guess that's how I got involved with Dads on the Air because, um, I, I found, uh, the Family Court, even though there was never any, never any accusation made against me of anything, like, you know, there was, they never accused, no one ever accused me of being a drunk or gambler or a womanizer or anything else. Um, but they still wouldn't let me see my children. I was only limited to— the most I ever got was 4 days in 14. And, um, with all that, you know, and I fought in the family court for 7 years trying to see those kids until I finally gave up. It was, it was getting— my youngest child was, was— my younger child was coming up to 12, and the family court loses interest in children when they're about 12 or 13. So I thought, well, I may as well just give it away. So I didn't see them then for 10 years after that. But that was an amazing thing that happened. I was, you know, just minding my own business and the phone went and I picked up the phone and it was my son. And I hadn't spoken to him for all these years. And he just said, you know, you know, I'm coming to Sydney. Would you like to catch up? Well, you know, I was— I jumped at that. And then my daughter followed not long after. So, um, you know, we, we managed to restore the— well, restore the relationship. But I think it's— I think there's always going to be that gap, you know, that 10-year gap in the relationship.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 14:54
It's such an important time for young— for young kids. It's when— yeah, you know, 14, 13, that's when dads become very crucial to that process of, you know, moving into adulthood.
John Milham (Host) · 15:05
Yeah, and she was— the mother was, was very much an alienator, so she turned those children against me. You know, I had, uh, you know, I had some dreadful scenes with those children. Um, you know, she encouraged my daughter to run away from home, which was absolutely— I think that was when I decided I've got to give this away because it was just too frightening to go into a room in the morning and she was gone. I didn't know where she was. Um, and, and my son used to scream and swear at me and carry on. So yeah, it was, it was very rough, and I just, but I just, um, carried on through. And I, I tried, uh, through the courts to get, uh, be able to see the children, but the courts are— the courts have really got no idea what they're doing. So the Family Court, I mean, and, and even, even now, I mean, the trouble with the Family Court you're not supposed to identify any people that have been in the court. So, you know, they're very well protected from any criticism. But anyway, that— so that's where Dads on the Air really started. It was a group of fathers who in 2000— the year 2000— one of them was a journalist called John Stapleton, and he got together with a group of other disgruntled fathers and they started this radio program. That was in August 2000, and John came up with the name Dads on the Air, and that was run from a community radio station in Liverpool. And then they were going to conferences and things, and I met, I met them at, uh, one of these conferences, and they invited me to come into the studio. So I did that in September 2009. And, uh, yeah, we were all just sitting around and I was, you know, taking it all in. I'd never been in a radio studio before, I don't think. And, uh, and then, uh, they said something or other and they said, now Bill, you're a lawyer, what do you think? I threw the microphone at me.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 17:02
So that was my, uh, introduction to broadcasting.
John Milham (Host) · 17:06
Yeah. And then, so from then, yeah, September 2009 in the community station, then we That went through till about December 2014 when I started putting the show out from Fine Music FM in St. Leonards. And that goes to the community radio network. So that's, yeah, that's a 10-year anniversary of going to the community radio network, which is, yeah.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 17:33
Fantastic. And of course, it reaches a vast number of people really through that. Network and being broadcast. So how many dads, you know, engage with this kind of material?
John Milham (Host) · 17:46
Well, yeah, look, I'd like to think it goes out to a lot. I know Community Radio itself, they do surveys and they do have a broad listenership. So we get it out through the Community Radio Network. They've got some 307 stations around Australia. Yeah. Uh, it also goes, uh, it's podcast on, on virtually on all major podcast engines, and it goes on our website. So there are some overseas people I know that, that, that listen in. Um, but beyond that, sometimes people ask, you know, how many, how many listeners have you got? Well, I can't really answer that because the only way to do that is to run a survey, and I'm not, not about to run a survey. So, um, Yeah, I don't know how many, but yeah, it's, it's since I took, I took it over with that Fine Music with the, with the Community Radio Network in 2009. And I guess it's, it's expanded from its early days of, you know, just dads complaining for an hour and a half to talking to all sorts of other you know, interesting people.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 19:01
Yeah. And it's such an incredibly necessary, if, um, sort of unrecognized service, right? So I spend a little time helping, uh, with the organization Dads in Distress, Parents Beyond Breakup, group of dads in, uh, in need going through separation and without support, just got together and created a, now a national organization. I find it really interesting as a lawyer, and you mentioned 50 years of law, right? Bumping into a court that doesn't work. How did that feel? Like, you know, like there's a contrast between, you know, your faith in your profession and then seeing, you know, an example of it where it's a very difficult situation.
John Milham (Host) · 19:50
Well, family law, I think, you know, really struggles to even be law like, like other areas of the law. I mean, I was, I was a corporate lawyer for most of my career. And, you know, you come to, you come to expect certain things in the way things are done. But family, family court is completely different. I mean, they— it's like an ivory tower because in the old days the judges used to go from court to court, and one of the courts they went to was a family court. So they had some experience of real life. Now they're in the Family Court all the time, so all they hear is this— these complaints from the parents. And I mean, you know, it's not unusual to spend half an hour in court with barristers, solicitors, independent children's lawyer, independent children lawyers, a lawyer.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 20:41
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 20:42
And they're all arguing about whether the father should pick their child up at 9:15 or 9:30. And that's, that's the sort of thing that goes on. And it's a dreadful institution to have to, to go to. And I felt when the court— I was picked on a few times in court because I happened to be a lawyer, you know, like it, it certainly didn't give you any assistance in court that they, uh, yeah, that was a strange thing. But it meant I briefed— I had a barrister and I briefed the barrister directly and he was he was a human being, which was, which was great because sometimes these people get very officious, that he actually felt for it. Yeah, it's, it's an extraordinary thing. And, you know, like, I couldn't get over the fact that the— if the court made an order and the mother breached it, which she invariably did, uh, there was no action taken.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 21:36
No action.
John Milham (Host) · 21:37
The only, the only action would— the only action available was if the father enforced it. And that was a whole other battle. Yeah. And I did do it once. I went to court on 3 serious breaches, and, uh, at the end of that, there was a, like, a not even a tap on the wrist. It was— when you, when you think the court had available powers including sending you to jail, um, there was no way in the world they were going to do anything. So, you know, that, that was a bit soul-destroying to go through that whole difficult exercise, and at the end of it, nothing happened. So it's, um, it's a really, it's a really bad area of the law and a bad, and a bad court.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 22:20
It's interesting because you are in a unique position. You've, you know, you've got lived experience of that process. You are, have lived, you know, you are a lawyer. Um, and of course now with Dads in the Air, you've spent time talking to knowledgeable people or people who have had experiences in the court itself. So what do you now— you know, what would you do if they gave you the, the, the ticket to change things?
John Milham (Host) · 22:48
Oh, well, when the family— the current Family Court was set up goes back to 1975 when Lionel Murphy was the Attorney-General.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 22:59
That well-known, that well-known cuddly figure, Lionel Murphy. Right.
John Milham (Host) · 23:03
That's the one. Yeah. Well, he said— I mean, he had bad experiences with the family law. It's probably why he saw it as a priority to fix it. And he set it up on the understanding that it would be run mostly by social workers. And, you know, there were little things like judges weren't supposed to wear wigs, and there was not to be a high bench where the judge would look down at the parties. You know, he was supposed to be on the same level as the parties. And it was all geared at, you know, finding a solution. But unfortunately, as these things tend to happen, the lawyers got involved and very quickly it suddenly became a lawyer-run institution instead of a social worker institution. Yeah, look, given— if I had my choices, yes, I would go back to the original intention which was to have it run more as, um, social ways. I mean, it's such a mixture of things because in the Family Court, like in every other area of the law, if there's what they call precedent— so if a similar situation has arisen, you refer to what the court did on the previous occasion. Yeah, but the Family Court doesn't see itself bound by that. They, they say, oh no, every case is different, so we'll decide for ourselves. So it means that you can't really give much guidance because the courts can do what they want. And so I would go back to— I would definitely go back to having the lawyers less influence and the social workers more influence. And I'm actually done— I do mediation, so I would also promote mediation so that you don't even have to go to court. Yeah. And, and people would— I mean, because you've always got the, the two big problems are the children and the property. And, you know, none of the reforms to the family law have made them any easier. But the father is always starting with a handicap because there are all sorts of funny ideas about, about attachment and mothers. And I mean, You know, the extreme example, I suppose, is Japan, where they just— they make it that only one parent can raise the child. So it means Australian fathers with Japanese children and a Japanese mother, they've got no chance of ever seeing the children. Well, the court will not give them a hearing. So yeah, then— and that's the extreme. But, um, yeah, I think, um I think there just has to be more social work, more mediation, and, um, and, and take these judges— I mean, some of my experiences with judges in the Family Court, you can sort of look back on it now, but, uh, extraordinary. I mean, one, they're in another world. Like, I wanted to see one of my— I wanted to see the children on Father's Day one year, and though the mother had moved them up to Taree And he said, uh, well, you know, you can see them, but only for, uh, 2 hours. Why? I don't know. So it would mean 3-hour drive up there, 2 hours with the kid doing who knows what, and then 3 hours back again, and then go to work the next day. And I mean, yeah, they're, they're unrealistic.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 26:32
Yeah. So, and, um, yeah, it's not getting any easier. So, you know, we can cross our fingers. I love the thoughts about improving things.
John Milham (Host) · 26:42
Yeah, I feel I've got to hand it over to— I mean, you know, I've been a campaigner for a long time, but I feel that there's a— hopefully there's a new generation coming up now which will take on the fight to do something about it. But, you know, it's just— no, there's just been no progress for so many years, and they keep, you know, keep going backwards. So I don't know. I think I sometimes feel in 100 years' time we'll look back and think, you know, what on earth were they thinking? Yeah, that's about it.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 27:12
And of course, at the heart of this in some ways is some thinking, some philosophy around the impact and role of dads. And Dads in the Air, you must speak to and over the years, you know, sort of interacted with a huge range of Australian dads. What do you think dads do really well in Australia?
John Milham (Host) · 27:39
In Australia? Well, I think, you know, dads are getting more involved. I mean, you know, I don't know what your family background is, but in my case, you know, my father was, you know, an old school, you know, he saw his role as to work hard and pay the bills and not really get so involved with the— you know, he had 5 children, so that was, you know, pretty much left to my mother, I think, most of it. Whereas nowadays, I think I noticed most, yeah, is that the fathers are getting much more involved with, uh, with their children. You know, they'll often take them to school, preschool, they'll, um, you know, they, they take them to the activities, they cook, they do all sorts of things that maybe you know, in my father's generation just wouldn't have been a, you know, an option. And, and that makes it, of course, makes it harder for, you know, because of the, you know, if anything goes wrong in the marriage, that they, you know, they'll be— the mother suddenly becomes the gatekeeper. And the mother, the mother will decide how much time the father gets to spend with the child, child or children. So, and, and yeah, I think Australian men are as a part of that, that change in, in fatherhood. Perhaps it's happening around the world, I'm not sure. But, um, I think, yeah, I think that's all good. I think the fathers, you know, it's very important for fathers to have a role, uh, with, with the children in lots of different ways, you know. I mean, you think about, you know, the relationship, you know, I've done programs on the relationship between fathers and daughters and fathers and sons and You know, one thing that screams out at you is, is how important it is for, say, young girls to get a role model of having a father. They know much better how to relate with the— in their own relationships. So yeah, um, yeah, there, there are those things which we should be, you know, we should be— I think we, we need to encourage fathers to be more involved. Perhaps we're going the other way because, you know, there's so many more single mothers these days.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 29:45
Yeah. And it's interesting. I was just listening to some stats, you know, during the COVID period, over 200,000 Australian marriages broke up. So it's, it's becoming, you know, vital that we work out how to do, you know, um, co-parenting.
John Milham (Host) · 30:04
Yes. Yeah. Well, hasn't, hasn't that changed, you know, in 100 years? Like, you know, there, there weren't divorces and even, you when I was growing up, it was very unusual to have divorces. But now, you know, if the kids go to school, um, yeah, they, they, they don't feel, you know, that's what I suppose one good thing, that they're not on their own. They won't go in the class normalized. Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 30:30
So what do you think Australian dads can improve?
John Milham (Host) · 30:34
Be careful who you marry, I suppose, is the, the first The first thing, I mean, I don't know how to do that.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 30:40
I'm sorry.
John Milham (Host) · 30:41
Oh, I thought you were going to be the expert there. But no, I mean, you know, these— all these problems wouldn't arise, I guess, if you, you know, if you have the happy marriage. And yeah, I don't know. I mean, people are still, still rushing out to get married. Maybe the— maybe there are more people living together now than than there were, and maybe they're more inclined to stay living together rather than actually go through the marriage process. But then they changed the law as far as properties can— well, they changed the law so that even if you're not married, if you've been in a relationship for 12 months, that there's not much difference. So I think young men— I mean, they— because another thing which we haven't mentioned yet is the dreaded child support. And you know that when, when my wife told me the marriage was over, I mean, the first thing was, you know, this is, this is a new— my life has suddenly just changed completely. And then you get the knock on the door with the child support saying, and by the way, not only is the family court going to take something like 60 to 70% of your assets, but, uh, you're, uh, you're also going to have to come up with, yeah, after-tax dollars to pay the wife. Uh, and they, they, they also operate in a bureaucratic world. I mean, they don't seem to— they're almost impossible to deal with. In fact, when I was there, you'd get to deal with someone and they'd sort of start to understand what was going on, then all of a sudden they'd change the person. So you would— you'd have a new person to deal with. And I believe now You can't even do that. You can't deal with the firm, with child support at all. They won't, they don't allow any sort of meetings. So, um, yeah, my experience with the child support was just, was diabolical. Um, I think the last dealing I had with them was they, they worked out that because I had a self-managed super fund, so I was, you know, that was my money going into the super fund. And there's a law that says you have to take money, take a minimum amount out of your super fund each year, which I wasn't— which, um, was my own money. It wasn't money coming from somebody else. But the court, the Family Child Support Agency, said, no, no, that's, that's income, and we're going to— not only are we going to take it, we're going to backdate it. So you owe us $10,000. By that stage, I'd already taken them to court a few times. They had some extraordinary rulings against me, and I won those couple of times I went to court with them. But that time I was exhausted, so I just thought, look, I'll just pay the $10,000 and have these people out of my life. And that was my last dealing. They never wrote to me and said, you know, it's all over, thanks very much. No, no, they just I just didn't hear from them. Yeah. Oh, they're, they're terrible, terrible, you know, and leading to lots of men suiciding.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 33:48
And that, that of course is, you know, why, uh, something that those of us in who support men understand that this is a massive part of the landscape for blokes.
John Milham (Host) · 34:01
Mm-hmm.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 34:02
So, um, people seem to be, you know, asking the question, you know, why is this so? Prevalent, or, you know, why is this an issue? What do you think we need to tell them?
John Milham (Host) · 34:13
Well, look, the only good thing about the Child Support Agency payments is that, you know, if you've got a spendthrift wife, or, you know, if it might be costing you a fortune, at least with the Child Support Agency, you know, there's a formula and, and you can sort of know, all right, well, from now on I'm going to be paying this much, but you've got to stay on top of it. And because, you know, they do weird things like, you know, in how they work out your income, they'll work it out in the way that suits them. I mean, they don't necessarily have to go with your tax return. They can make their own determinations. So I think you need to— yeah, look, that's all you have to do. You just have to do your best and try and and work out fair. And don't— when, when you're sort of not allowed to see your children, you don't— you're not looking to pay extra money to the mothers. You just— I think you just pay what the, what Child Support Agency says is a, the amount you had enough to— you have to pay and pay that. Because if you pay more, that's the other thing. If you pay more, the Child Support Agency will say, oh well, you can pay more, so therefore we'll set it at this higher level. So you know, you've got to be careful like that as well. Yeah.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 35:34
And you were saying, you know, the loss of men as a result of these, you know, child support agents, family court actions, separation, the challenges that this adds to, you know, other challenges like career adjustment and so on. Yeah. Losing men, you know, what do we, what are we going to tell people who are saying, you know, we're losing too many men? What do we do about it?
John Milham (Host) · 35:57
Well, that was actually a campaign at Dads on the Air in the early days that they had on the, the boss of Child Support Agency and tried to pin him down on how many men commit suicide because of Child Support Agency. And they would never, they would never admit it. We— Dads on the Air took an estimate. We thought it was a man a day was killing himself because of the agency. But they would— yeah, they never own up to it. They would have the figures, but they won't own up to it. So it's, you know, it's dealing with— those are the most important things in your life, you know, your children and your income and your assets. Well, you know, they're all gone. So it's— yeah, it's a huge problem. I think most fathers want to do the right thing by their children. They're not trying to avoid their responsibilities, but it's just— I mean, you know, it goes back to Bob Hawke saying, you know, no, no child in Australia will ever live in poverty or something along those lines.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 37:05
Well, yeah, by 1990 it was.
John Milham (Host) · 37:08
Yeah, but he wasn't thinking that the government was going to do anything. He was thinking, we're going to attack these fathers and get money out of them. So, you know, it started off on the wrong foot. And it's— I don't know, I think it's probably worse now than it ever was. But it's strange because, you know, well, you've got the— you've got the Family Court has got this, um, you know, this clampdown on saying what's happening. But you don't hear too much about, you know, about fathers getting caught up in, in Child Support Agency. You know, you hear a lot about the deadbeat dads, the dreadful expression, but you never hear about the fathers trying to do the right thing that get caught up in it.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 37:52
And the vast majority of fathers do. That's the stats if they reveal them. So, um, I'm interested. You mentioned earlier as a solution, what you, one of the wisdoms you now have is, uh, to, you know, the suggestion that we find, um, a different type of woman or marriage, marry a different woman. Is there a lack of skill or is there an area for men to develop so that relationships are improved? Right? Because I have a sense that it's harder to find the perfect woman than it is to work diligently together, right? There's a lot of blokes I've worked in business that I didn't get on with, but we managed to get focused on the outcomes. So do you think men can embrace, you know, from your experience, what kind of things do you think men can do to improve their ability to operate?
John Milham (Host) · 38:50
I mean, to have children is really, you know, anyone can have children, you know, if you can have sex, you can have children. So there are no restrictions there. And it's, it's, um, there are no real restrictions on getting married. I mean, in the church in years gone by, they used to— used to have to pronounce the bans of marriage. Yeah, put it up in the church and, you know, you're going to get married. Is anyone got an objection? All those sorts of things. Whereas now, yeah, you just go down to the local registry and you're away. I don't know. I don't— we perhaps we made it easy to get out of marriages. Maybe we should also make it a bit harder to get into them. You know, I mean, anything like this would be resisted, I'm sure, in the community. But, you know, for the long-term good of society so that people are not losing their life savings and their children, maybe there should be something like— I'm reluctant to talk about courses, but maybe there should be a cooling-off period or something.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 39:51
So Certificate 3 in being a husband. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 39:56
Well, yes, I suppose. But, uh, and look, that would probably be a good thing. I mean, I'm sure a lot of people go into marriage and they've got no idea really what, what's, uh, what's involved.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 40:07
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 40:08
Um, or even going into long-term relationships again, you know, like after 12 months it's much the same anyway as, as being married. So yeah, I, I— and yeah, look, one thing I would like to do is have more education for young men who, you know, might be inclined to have, um, unprotected sex, thinking— they might think, they might occasionally think that, you know, venereal disease, but that's largely controlled by antibiotics, but they don't think that they might be stuck with, um, 18 years of child support and taking a percentage of their income. You know, that maybe that might cool their ardor a little bit or make them a bit more, uh, protect— take more interest in, in, uh, you know, in stopping having those children. Because, um, that's it, you know. I mean, that would really change your life if you suddenly found you had to support a child for 18 years.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 41:04
So, and of course, Dads in the Air has expanded over the years to, to cover a lot of, uh, subjects that are relevant and, and, you know, in the discussion with men and, uh, to masculinity. You know, there's a lot of talk recently of the, the, of both the good and the bad side of masculinity and the patriarchy. So what do you think is, is, you know, in terms of you watching and, and, and even driving the conversation? Where do you think we're going with the world of men?
John Milham (Host) · 41:35
Yeah, well, look, just speaking a bit more generally for a minute, you can see your heroes. You have people who really are heroes in the community, I think. Some of them been through the bushfires and some have been through personal dramas and these people really are heroes. I guess my My community involvement is mainly, I guess, Dads on the Air. And I— but this is a bit— this is very unusual for me to be actually talking because I usually like to stay in the background.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 42:10
You're doing a great job, Bill. Thank you. Well, thank you.
John Milham (Host) · 42:13
Well, I usually like to stay in the background and hear what my guests have got to say. I'm sure that's much more interesting than, you know, than me spouting my opinion week after week. So It is, it is a bit unusual, but, um, but I have, yeah, over the, over the years I have expanded it from those areas that we've been talking about with, uh, Family Court and fathers and, um, and difficulties with children. And although that's still, that's still the, um, the focus, I mean, in the introduction of the program we talk about, um, that the program is, is about fatherhood, family, and parenting, men's and boys' issues. And more. So it— that's still going to always be the focus. And in fact, I did an interview yesterday with, uh, Dr. Billy Darvey, who is a developmental pediatrician. That was about— now he's written a book called 10 Things I Wish You Knew About Your Child's Mental Health. So, so, so that was very interesting, talking about, um, about things parents should be aware of with their children. And, and, uh, you know, probably all of us have been through 3-year-old tantrums and 2-year-old tantrums, 3-year-old tantrums, and, and then the different sorts of problems you have as, you know, as teenagers, and all those areas where, uh, you know, a little guidance would be very helpful.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 43:38
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 43:39
And so he's put out this book because he says, you know, to come and actually see me, you'd have months and months waiting to to see a pediatrician. Although that's been— that's the focus, yeah, I've expanded it and a number of, you know, different categories. Now, you know, we talk about parents, um, you know, I, I've, I feel very privileged that, um, I've been able to speak to some extraordinary parents. Like, for instance, uh, recently I spoke to Chrissy Foster, who most people would probably remember with her battles with the Catholic Church. And how a priest was abusing her two daughters. And, you know, dreadful situation. One of the daughters committed suicide and the other daughter was catastrophic injuries in a car accident. So, you know, she was— and then her husband died. So, you know, what an extraordinary woman. Her book is called Still Standing. Well, you know, she is still standing. And, you know, and she's inspirational with, with what she does, that she's still a fighter. She's, she's, she's fighting for, you know, for children. And then, you know, I, I've interviewed, um, Ralph and Kathy Kelly. And again, people might remember, they, they had a, a boy who was doing really, really well, and he was about 17 or 18, and he went up to King's Cross with his new girlfriend and got king hit and died, you know, just like that. Um, you know, how they came to terms with that. And then it got worse because their other son, about a year later, committed suicide. So, you know, these people have this extraordinary strength. And then, well, and also, like, in the parenting area, I spoke to a fellow called Brendan Watkins who wrote a book called, uh, Tell No One. And his story was unusual in that he found out that, um, he found out that his mother was— had been a nun and then subsequently found out that his father had been a priest.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 45:48
Priest. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 45:49
And, and that was— and the father, he, he didn't manage to trace his father before his father died, but his mother is still alive and he's met with his mother. But, you know, he battled the Catholic Church and had an enormous battle, you know, trying to find out, you know, what the story was about his parents. So, you know, things like that are— well, they can be— they can be certainly for me, they can be very inspirational just hearing the things that, that parents will, will do, you know, for their children.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 46:26
Amazing. I love those stories. And of course, I, you know, I believe also that It's the quiet battles that men are engaged in every day just to grab more time or spend more time or support their family.
John Milham (Host) · 46:41
That's right. Yeah.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 46:42
Yeah. I love that. So do you find yourself inspired by the stories you are inviting into your world? And is that the purpose of what your purpose now you've spent so much energy and so much time promoting those stories and sharing those stories. Is that your purpose?
John Milham (Host) · 47:07
Well, look, I guess so. I guess if I've got a purpose, I mean, I see myself as very privileged that I get the opportunity to talk to all these people and they're willing to spend, you know, 27 minutes and 50 seconds, which is my allotted slot, you know, discussing something, whereas, you know, I think a lot of, say, TV grabs and radio grabs might be, you know, 30 seconds or 2 minutes or something. And you can't— you can't get your message across in that time. But, you know, 27 minutes and 50 seconds, you know, I think— I think that these people actually, the authors and other people that I speak to, yeah, they appreciate the opportunity to expand a bit on it. And, you know, I think it goes back to where we started talking. One benefit of getting old is that, you know, you have, you have all these experiences to draw on. I, with nearly everybody that I interview, and I've done something like 247 interviews for community radio for— this is for the Community Radio Network. Yeah.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 48:11
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 48:11
The experience of being able to Yeah, to draw on what I've been through. And, you know, I feel like, you know, I've certainly been through the fatherhood thing and even the sperm donor thing and the, uh, you know, and I was at the Beatles concert, so I'm interviewing the authors of a new book about the Beatles.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 48:28
You've been a piece of history.
John Milham (Host) · 48:30
Yeah. So I think it, I think it helps if you've, if you've got a bit of background. Like if I was 20 years old, you know, I might find it more difficult to, to draw on that experience, even though I, as I say, I don't like to be in the front of the interview, but still. To be able to prod people in a certain direction, I think it helps.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 48:48
Yeah, absolutely. And I'm interested in, you mentioned 20 years old and the young people you've mentioned earlier, right? How do you now see them, right? The Generation Z are copping a bit of flak at the moment. It seems to be a bit tit for tat for us boomers and them. But what's your view of young Australians at the moment?
John Milham (Host) · 49:11
Oh, well, look, I'm very impressed. I mean, I've got 2 children and one's— my daughter's 27, my son's 31. And I'm, you know, I'm very impressed with them. I think we're still at the stage— there's some talk in America at the moment that maybe it's going backwards, but I think we're still at the stage where our children can expect to earn more money and and, uh, do, do more things than, than perhaps we did. Um, so, so I think, you know, I mean, they have the opportunity to travel much more than we did when we were growing up. Uh, so they have all these, they have all these, um, all these things. And I think, you know, I think they're, um, I think the, that younger generation is, is going really well. I mean, there's the perennial complaint about music, you know. I don't particularly like rap than some of the stuff, the music that's out there now. But apart from their choice in music, yeah, I think they're— oh, my son's a, you know, he plays in a rock band, is it? The real headbanging music, right?
Bill Kable (Guest) · 50:16
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 50:18
Which I, you know, I can appreciate when he's playing, but it wouldn't be my first choice. So yeah, yeah. So I, yeah, look, I think there's cause for optimism. With the next generation coming through. And, you know, I think we're learning more, like, you know, this doctor that I interviewed yesterday, I think, you know, we're learning more about, you know, how we should react when, you know, when children, like, just simple things like language. And he was saying, well, rather than saying, you know, if a child's having a difficult moment, saying, oh, it's all right, it's all right, it's better to say, I'm here. And be supportive. That's what they're really looking for. So, you know, little things and big things, I think we're, I like to think we're, yeah, we're progressing.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 51:07
Yeah, I would agree. I have 3 kids in, you know, 30, 27, and 23, and they're incredibly clever, but not just that, like extraordinarily, you know, cleverer than I was, but Not just that, I love their heart. They have a heart, right? I see a lot of potential in the future because of the way they care.
John Milham (Host) · 51:31
Yeah.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 51:32
They've got a lot of challenges ahead of them, but many of them are our fault. But I do love how they have, the potential is extraordinary. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 51:44
And the interest in community. I think that's really great if we can encourage them more. I do wonder what's going— I mean, this is completely off topic, but I wonder what's happening in America where you've got two men approaching 90.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 52:01
It's amazing, isn't it?
John Milham (Host) · 52:04
I don't know what's happened over there, but in Australia, we seem to bumble along. I don't think our leaders have ever been world-class either. But anyway, apart from a few that have been, but a lot of them are very ordinary.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 52:20
Well, yeah. Well, at least on Sunday we can go to the beach, right? That's like, I think Australia's saving grace might be we couldn't have a revolution because the cricket's on the weekend.
John Milham (Host) · 52:30
So that's right.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 52:32
But yeah, which is interesting, touching on a point both with young people One of the roles I see as a senior, right? As a dad or a man with that senior status, sometimes in recent years that men work moving past 50 have seemed to be devaluing. Did you feel like as you got to a certain level of seniority, that the attitude towards you changed? Have you felt that?
John Milham (Host) · 53:11
Look, probably not because I probably haven't come to terms that I've reached that level.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 53:15
That's probably the best defense.
John Milham (Host) · 53:18
Yeah. No, I don't. Look, I don't think so. I think we have lots of opportunities which, as long as we're still healthy, we can do stuff now that that perhaps before, if you're just working all the time, you didn't have that opportunity. So yeah, look, in many ways it's getting better, I think. Like a Beatles song.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 53:45
I agree. Do you have any thoughts about how somebody sort of transitioning into that senior section of their life, how they can maximize that if it's getting better? How do you embrace that?
John Milham (Host) · 53:59
Well, you know, I suppose, you know, just following on from a minute ago, I mean, I think, you know, health has obviously got to be the number one thing. So, you know, really, and I think the younger people are moving away from things like smoking, which is, you know, they've got to get away from that. They've got to, you know, just the regular stuff, you know, getting a bit of exercise, don't eat sugary food all the time. I think if you do that and keep your mind active, I mean, you know, I've said a few times that I see myself as very fortunate that I get to talk to, you know, some of the world leaders in different areas that, you know, that sort of keeps you on your toes. Yeah. I've had, I like to think, you know, I've had a couple of terrorists in my studio, for instance, you know. Peter Greste, who's, you know, he's a convicted terrorist and he's, you know, he can't go to places like Egypt. Well, he's a nice bloke that came to the studio. And Sean Turnell, who was in Burma, and he was locked up for 2 years. So yeah, I mean, so if you have the opportunity to meet people, maybe that would be a good thing to do. I mean, I say I'm lucky to go through the radio station, but there Lots of other ways you can meet interesting people and keep on your toes, I suppose.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 55:28
Yeah, connection is massive, isn't it?
John Milham (Host) · 55:30
Connection, yeah.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 55:32
I love that idea too, the terrorists, that'd be awesome. But that, you know, because they're benign terrorists, they're terrorists for good. Yes.
John Milham (Host) · 55:42
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 55:43
We should clarify perhaps. But I love the idea of using, you know, the wisdom, our journeys to a certain stage of life can be given back, right? And I know that's part of what you do every day. For young people, you know, the idea of accessing the wisdom of elders, right? The, you know, once upon a time we sat around the fire and directed, you know, and had people, you know, come to us and ask questions. Do you see a role for for senior Australians back into the lives of young people and in a mentoring sense, maybe?
John Milham (Host) · 56:20
Yeah, look, look, definitely. Um, you know, there were a couple of ABC programs about, uh, you know, older people and, and then different ages.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 56:28
Yeah, yeah, the teenagers one was just the last one. Yeah, that was amazing.
John Milham (Host) · 56:32
And look, I think we've, we've got to encourage that. I mean, I interviewed a woman called Anne-Marie Slaughter who was an assistant to Hillary Clinton. Well, and she is very big on the way that society is going. We are going to need a lot more carers. And so much so that, you know, all of us have to get involved with caring. You know, most of us have had elderly parents that we've had to look after. And so I think I really— she encouraged it, you know, and I think she's right. I think we've got to The big movement has gotta be towards more caring and getting, perhaps getting younger people involved in caring.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 57:16
So AI might free them up from, you know, doing lawyer type jobs and into caring type jobs.
John Milham (Host) · 57:23
Absolutely. Lawyers are one of the most threatened people, I think, with AI. So yeah, get them doing something else more useful, maybe caring.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 57:32
Yeah. And it's interesting because, you know, maybe a good place to sort of round up is how you think things are going to change in the future, right? So as you, we're coping with massive areas of technology change, but also social change as we talked about America and so on. What do you see the future being, mate?
John Milham (Host) · 57:56
Well, look, you try and be optimistic and we've talked about a few optimistic things, but You know, there are, there are some enormous threats. You know, you've talked about AI. Well, you know, that, that could be a new industrial revolution. And if they link up quantum computers with AI, you know, who knows where it's going to lead? I mean, you know, already if you look, you know, we have people becoming like the Six Million Dollar Man. You know, we have artificial artificial legs, artificial hearing, all, you know, we keep going that way, we'll be all artificial.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 58:36
But I'm quite looking forward to it, actually. A bit of an upgrade would be nice.
John Milham (Host) · 58:40
Well, as long as it's still you in there.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 58:43
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 58:45
But then, you know, look, I've been reading a book recently about, uh, it's called Nuclear War, and, uh, talk about frightening. It makes everything we do— you wonder about everything we do because You know, around the world there are thousands of these nuclear bombs that are much like 1,000 times bigger than Hiroshima that are on hair triggers. And it just needs— and it's not— we people tend to think, oh, the president's got it, President of America's got to approve it. Well, not necessarily. It's unfortunately very similar to Dr. Strangelove, which was written by a guy who was expert in British security and It's— that does— that really does concern me that, you know, one mistake and that guy in Korea could, for no apparent reason, if he sent one of these ICBMs towards America, America would automatically respond and then Russia would respond and then China would respond. And, you know, if you look at the big picture, how likely is it that humanity is going to be around for another 1,000 years? You know, I wonder about that. But in the short term, yes, I think we've got lots of cause to be optimistic.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 1:00:01
Okay. Despite the, you know, the overall massive looming threat of nuclear war, we're good.
John Milham (Host) · 1:00:07
That's right. That's absolutely right. You know, I think there are lots of green shoots and lots of things that we can be excited about. And, you know, I guess, you know, need to encourage people to get more involved in everything.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 1:00:24
Yeah, I love that. Do you think, like, I see a lot of older Australians, maybe, you know, the stereotype grumpy old men, right? If we, you know, as, you know, maybe our task is as older Australians to focus on the green shoots and promote them.
John Milham (Host) · 1:00:43
Yeah, look, I think so. And You know, as we were talking a few minutes ago about, you know, where young people can get more involved with older people, you know, they've got to be prepared for a few rejections. I imagine some older people might be a bit cranky and, you know, don't want to have young people talking to them, telling them what to do or whatever. So, but yeah, I think if we persist and if we promote caring, yeah, I think that's definitely the way to go.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 1:01:13
Fabulous. Well, that is a beautiful image to finish on. Thank you so much, Bill, for an incredibly diverse and interesting conversation today. Thank you for joining Kintsugi Heroes and for offering us your story and your wisdom. Much appreciated.
John Milham (Host) · 1:01:28
Thank you, John. And look, I have all the time in the world for Kintsugi Heroes. I think it's a wonderful organization and your founder, what a ball of energy he is. Yeah, yeah. Ian Westmoreland, we've interviewed Ian several times on Dad's on the Air as well, but he is an inspiration for me. And, you know, and Kintsugi Heroes is a fabulous exercise. So congratulations.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 1:01:53
Well, thank you very much on behalf of Kintsugi Heroes. And thank you, Bill. And talk soon. All the best, man.
John Milham (Host) · 1:02:00
That's great. Thank you, John. Thank you. For listening to this episode of Connecting Seniors, a Kintsugi Heroes special series. Thank you to Colin Lilly for permission to use Broken as our theme music for this series.
Bill Kable (Guest) · 1:02:18
If you enjoyed this conversation, share the podcast with a friend and let us know by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
John Milham (Host) · 1:02:29
If you'd like to support Kintsugi Heroes and the stories we share, head to kintsugiheroes.com.au and follow the instructions to make a tax-deductible donation. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.
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