Cecilia McKenzie · 44 min
A proud Wiradjuri woman who survived childhood sexual assault, her mother's attempted suicide, and coercive control goes on to become a nationally recognised First Nations advocate, proving that healing is hard work, but it is possible.
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Cecilia McKenzie is a Wiradjuri woman and advocate who has turned profound childhood trauma into purposeful work for change. At ten years old, she was sexually assaulted by a stranger in a park. A year later, she discovered her mother in crisis after a suicide attempt. She was forced to testify against her perpetrator in court at eleven, and her parents' marriage fell apart. Yet within this darkness, certain people showed up. A sexual assault counselor helped her reframe what happened. At boarding school, a music teacher stopped the choir mid-song and told her to keep singing, recognising a gift she didn't yet know she had. Cecilia trained as a classical singer, but it was blues, gospel, and soul that let her sing trauma out of her body. Later, an unhealed wound of abandonment led her into a relationship shaped by coercive control, another painful chapter born from seeking to be saved.
Healing, Cecilia learned, is not someone else's job. It is hers. It means sitting with wounds instead of walking around them, processing pain until the wisdom surfaces, building grit with each hard thing endured. She has done this work while raising daughters, while her mother remained distant due to stroke and hospitalisation. Forgiveness came not with her mother, but through becoming a mother herself, moving from child and parent into two women together. Now Cecilia works as a counselor and advocate, advising government on coercive control policy and supporting survivors. She speaks of songlines, the ancient Aboriginal roadmaps kept safe through story and song, and sees her own testimony as a roadmap for other women navigating their own fracture and rebuilding. She believes her responsibility is to find her gifts and her purpose is to give them away.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses domestic & family violence, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • 1800RESPECT (family, domestic & sexual violence): 1800 737 732 · 1800respect.org.au
“when you're a survivor of sexual assault you know shame is so thick on you it's so thick and it you know led me into choices and seeking validation and acceptance”
“the opposite to addiction is connection — we're communal beings — reach out to safe places cuz when we tell our truth in safe places we free ourselves”
“I feel like a chorus of my ancestors around me. And I know it sounds like unusual, but I feel them.”
The hero, today
Cecilia learned early from a sexual assault counselor that terrible things can happen and people who are centered and kind can help you reframe it, which shaped why she went into the work she does now. My healing is my responsibility though, nobody else's, and that means sitting with wounds, processing pain, and letting the wisdom bubble to the surface so you have more grit for the next hard thing. Life starts as a whisper, then a tap on the shoulder, then a whisper, then it gets louder, then it yells, then everything turns to custard; the key is listening to your internal wisdom before it has to shout. When you tell your truth in safe places, you free yourself; the opposite to addiction is connection, and we are communal beings who need to reach out rather than sit alone in the room. Cecilia's responsibility is to find her gifts and her purpose is to give them away, which she is doing through sharing her story as a roadmap for other women navigating their own trauma and healing.
Yes. Cecilia McKenzie is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Cecilia learned early from a sexual assault counselor that terrible things can happen and people who are centered and kind can help you reframe it, which shaped why she went into the work she does now.
My healing is my responsibility though, nobody else's, and that means sitting with wounds, processing pain, and letting the wisdom bubble to the surface so you have more grit for the next hard thing.
Life starts as a whisper, then a tap on the shoulder, then a whisper, then it gets louder, then it yells, then everything turns to custard; the key is listening to your internal wisdom before it has to shout.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 00:03
Welcome to The Grit Diaries with Mon and Maz, a place where we share real stories meets real transformation. Each episode, we share the journeys of everyday people who's faced life's hardest moments and found their way to hope, healing, and purpose. May their courage inspire you and in the world around you. Let's get inspired!
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 00:31
Today we have Cecilia McKenzie, a proud Wiradjuri woman and an absolute advocate for self-determination and the key to learning. If you're interested in stepping forward into a better future, you must listen to Cecilia McKenzie. She's got stories of resilience that will inspire you. Hello, you're listening to the Grit Diaries, From Grit to Grace, with Mono Maz. We're excited today, aren't we, Maz?
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 01:07
Absolutely, very excited.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 01:09
We are. I can't wait to talk to you, Cecilia. So we have got Cecilia McKenzie here, a proud Wiradjuri woman who has a story that will resonate with so many around the struggle, particularly of a child that experiences trauma, and how the system so often fails, particularly children. And the beautiful thing about Cecilia is she's moving her pain into purpose and is wanting to pass this on for her people and for all Australians to take some insight and knowledge around how they can step forward after tough stuff. So this session is about Grit to Grace, and we want to talk more about the grace than the grit, but we better start a little bit with the grit. So welcome, Cecilia, we love having you here, and thank you for investing a bit of time. Would you like to share a little bit about yourself? South Coast, and you're a country girl like me. You were born in Wagga, Tell us a little bit about your early days and then, yeah, let's go from there.
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When you tell your truth in safe places, you free yourself; the opposite to addiction is connection, and we are communal beings who need to reach out rather than sit alone in the room.
This conversation includes a dreamer on the farm, the man at the park, her father's question, facing him in court, the morning her mother breaks and a music teacher who hears her voice.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 02:20
Yeah, sure. I live very close to the South Coast. I live in the Southern Highlands on a property, which is wonderful. I grew up on a farm and, you know, being here on the farm is actually such a calming, important place for me to be in this season of my life, you know, in terms of grounding and, and healing and just centering and stealing my nervous system. Yeah, as you mentioned, I'm a proud Wiradjuri woman. Professionally, I've got a background in counseling, community work, policy advice, advocacy. I really, you know, want to change the narrative in terms of this sort of deficit-based, you know, we can't— it is terrible, terrible, painful things happen, and we can overcome them. It takes a lot of hard effort and a lot of work and a lot of grief, but we can do it ourselves. But also we need, we need communities and systems around us, you know, that makes that recovery process easier. And Cecilia, I love how you've actually come into this space with wanting to create change and to change the narrative. I'm wondering if you can take us back before the challenge, the part that we're going to sort of find out more about what happened to you as a young person. What was happening for you prior to that? Were you footloose and fancy free as a young thing? What was happening in your world prior to what you're going to talk about today? Yeah, sure. Look, as a young girl, I was, I was a bit of a dreamer. I was always a bit of a dreamer and a conjurer of fun. I remember, and I still am, you know, completely awestruck by the wonder of nature. You know, I would wander. I grew up on a farm and I'd find myself wandering in the bush and riding my bike and, you know, quite a happy-go-lucky child really. There was, there was complexities, you know. My parents had, had their own challenges in their relationship. They were both in recovery. I like to laugh and say that I'm a 13th step baby. My parents, yeah.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 04:25
And yeah, I think there's a few of those that have been born.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 04:30
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so look, it was— I knew that people loved me. I knew that there was love around me. It was not perfect at all, but you know, it was a good childhood in some ways. Complex childhood. It got really tricky when I was 10. I can't actually remember a lot before I was 10 because it was such a significant thing to happen. But yeah, I do remember some memories and it was not as complex. So when I was 10, I was playing with my cousins in a park, and I just wanna flag that this might be confronting for some people. And just to that point, and I know Sim's probably thinking the same thing, is just before you delve in, it's quite a challenging story. If anybody here listening into our interview today is feeling triggered by what they're listening to and have some emotion around it, please reach out to Lifeline. Sim, you've got the number?
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 05:28
Yes, I do have it. It's Lifeline number 13 11 14.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 05:34
Thanks, Sim, you've saved me. But yeah, sorry to interrupt you, Cecilia. Yeah, so you are only a young thing, you're only 10. Did you have siblings? Yeah, I do, but my siblings are from subsequent relationships of my parents. I grew up with one sibling, but she was a lot older than me, with my sister, and she was a lot older than me. And my mum and her were away for the weekend, and I was visiting family in a small country town and went off to play with my cousins in the park. And, you know, we were putting leaves, dried leaves, on the slippery dip and sliding down. And I remember it vividly because the leaves were crunching as we were sliding down, and a gentleman came over A man came over and approached us. He seemed a bit older and I noticed he had a hearing aid. And I was always, you know, I was raised and naturally quite concerned about people who struggle, you know, a bit of the underdog. And, you know, he was talking to us and started hanging out with us. Then I thought that, you know, as a young girl sounded fun and cool. And, you know, I didn't have any sense of worry or concern. At that point, because I was naturally quite a trusting child. And I went to go down the slippery dip and he touched me inappropriately, which immediately triggered for me, you know, okay, this isn't what I'm expecting it to be. And in my little, you know, active resistance, self-protective way, I said, just let me get down the slippery dip and you do what you want. Because I thought, you know, if I say that, he might let me, I'll do the bolt, you know, I'll go down the slippery dip and I'll run. That's amazing for a 10-year-old to even have that thought process and just to be like in a stunned situation that you weren't expecting.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 07:24
Wow.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 07:25
Yeah, yeah, I, you know, I remember the flush of adrenaline and fear and yeah, I came down the slippery dip and he caught me and took me to the toilets and sexually assaulted me. And, you know, I didn't know if I would actually get out of that room alive. You know, I really thought that that might be it for me. And he sort of stopped what he was doing and walked away. And I think he actually said, thank you. And I don't know to this day whether it was kind of thank you that I said I wouldn't tell anyone. Or thank you, you know, so many— it's just weird memories that come in from these kind of really overwhelming traumas. And my cousins had run to get help, and by the time they came back, he'd left. And I believe that he, you know, was actually perpetrated against a number of young people in that country town during that time. There was a bit of, you know, repeat offending. And yeah, he sort left, and my cousins came back, and my family had come back. And I don't recall going to the police station, but I know that we went to the police station. My mother had been away at an event with my older sister. And all of the memories kind of fall into one, you know, all of them, and snapshots. I went back to, you know, our farmhouse, and my parents were talking to me. And just this strong feeling, even as a young girl, of feeling like my dress was stained. You know, feeling stained in that moment. Something wrong has happened to me here, you know. And, you know, I was linked with supports. You know, I was linked with a fantastic sexual assault counsellor who supported me unbelievably. You know, she was quite known to our family, and I'm still I'm still in contact with her to this day, you know, a very, very special, significant woman in my life and probably a real, you know, inspiration to me in terms of why I went into the work that I did, you know, because I saw, you know, you can have something terrible happen, but really wonderful, centered, kind people can help you reframe that. And I learnt that. So I learnt really awful, painful things, but I also learnt that. I learnt that, you know, there's people who can walk on the journey with you. Yeah.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 09:51
Did you feel that you got the support? It's fantastic that you had that counsellor. Wow. Do you feel your parents were supportive, heard you? And did you feel like you're almost like an only child because you said there's big gaps between all the siblings, so you must have felt so alone?
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 10:11
My dad was, you know, first grade footy player, proud Koori man. You you know, and I could see the shatter in his face. You know, I could just see how shattered he was that this had happened. You know, he'd had his own trauma and actually spent a significant amount of his childhood in boys' homes. And he, you know, the words parents say to children and they don't realise the impact of them. I remember that that evening when my parents came home to the house and we were there and he said to me, why didn't you fight? And for him, that was like, we're fighters, you know, we're proud, strong warrior people, you know. But for me, that resonated with me, and I was kind of left with the concept of, why didn't I fight? You know what, so, you know, not ever at all intended to harm. My father loved me greatly, but that was his own wounds, you know.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 11:06
Yeah, he would have felt so powerless And you can see a father saying things like that. I'd hate to say it, but it's true, don't they? They, they feel so powerless. So he was just expressing what he actually felt he wanted to do for you. Yeah, yeah, he wanted to fight for you.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 11:26
I believe so. And my parents, during that process— so there was quite a lead-up to court, and you know, I was going through therapy and my parents' marriage really started to disintegrate during that time. I think that there was a few cracks even before that incident. I personalized it like most children do.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 11:46
Yeah, you would have said, it's all my fault.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 11:49
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think it was, if not just before or after the court appearance, my parents' marriage ended. And look, I was touching on it before that, you know, this is back in the early '90s and we've really come a long way in terms of how we support young people, you know, when they're making disclosures now. You know, it's improved incredibly. At that time, I actually, in the small country regional court, had to stand on the dock, sit on the dock, give my evidence and face my perpetrator. And that was Oh, you know, it was harrowing. Just the fear. I remember my legs being jelly and yeah.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 12:34
Just salt to the wound and much more than salt, right? Just terrible.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 12:38
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very, very shaming. And you know, when they were asking me questions, you know, I was only little. I was 11. So my mind and the way that I was processing the things that they were saying to me felt like it was all my fault. You know, that, you know, I, I'd created this situation, but he was actually found guilty. And then sort of that situation, I kept in therapy and it was just my mother and I on the farm. Um, you know, just the two of us. My sister had moved out, my parents had separated, and my mother really would isolate herself. She was a nurse and a night shift nurse. And I can only imagine, like, as a mum, you know, I— the story got pretty richer, but we haven't got time to get into that. But a lot of other stuff came on in my adult life, which has really informed my empathy and love for my mum, you know, because it's a big gig being a mother. Just before you go on to the situation with your beautiful mum, I just want to pause for a second and acknowledge you for sharing what you have. There's no lightening up what a really horrific traumatic experience that you had as a young person. And I think for the listeners out there that have experienced similar, or, you know, have had their own trauma, obviously childhood trauma is just like nothing else that we have. And for your bravery and courageous self to come on and talk about this. It's giving a voice to those that might be listening, and I want to thank you for that. And, you know, there we can completely understand that there has been a long journey to get to this beautiful woman that's presenting today that has done a lot of work and a lot of dedication to get there. So from that sense, you know, I just want to offer the listeners some hope that wherever they're at in their journey, you know, it's clear, Cecilia, that that is because of your people around you, but that, you know, you are now in a position that you are wanting to share, and you've done so much in this space as well. So I just wanted just to pause just for a second to acknowledge that as you sort of go into talking more about your beautiful mum.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 15:05
Yeah, and if I can say one more thing, Cecilia, it is really It is admirable that you share this story and the importance of naming to tame. And there's— I've heard a definition of trauma which I think is a really fantastic one, which is trauma is the untold stories that we keep within our body. And I think every time that you share— not— but we encourage free sharing, but when you know you're in a safe space with people who you can trust and that care for you and care genuinely about the story that's about to be shared, it must make a little moment, it must be a slight step forward in healing. Certainly in my experience, in my own lived experience, I know when I've shared something with someone that has helped me, yeah, really, really makes a difference. So thank you.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 16:03
And also, you know, It takes out the shame of it. You know, when you're a survivor of sexual assault, you know, shame is so thick on you. It's so thick. And it, you know, led me into choices and seeking validation and acceptance and, you know, created a compounded the trauma, you know, with those unprocessed traumas. They got compounded and they got bigger. You know, bigger and bigger. It's, you know, that analogy of caring for your inner child. You know, she's my little inner girl. She was beaten and bruised, and I dragged her along for a bit. But, you know, she's pretty resilient and she's pretty assertive. And the nurturing that I've given her has meant that now I can sit with her and she tells me where we need to tend to, you know.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 17:01
So Cecilia, thank you so much for sharing that part of your story. And I know the story gets bigger. So if you'd like to share a little bit more about how you step forward as an adult carrying what you were carrying and, and tell us a little bit about that pathway and what happened.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 17:23
Yeah. So when I was 11, before I went off to school, actually. It was my mother and I on the farm. My mother's mental health, you know, we didn't have the same systems and support at that time, but my mother's mental health was declining. She was a night shift nurse, working, lots of stuff going on for her. And my mother was a very— she's a tall 6-foot woman and very stoic and stunningly beautiful. I'm a brunette, but my mother is very blonde and tall and, you know, gorgeous woman. She never, I never saw weakness on my mother. I never saw, I never saw it until one morning I came out of my room getting ready for school and she was sitting and she was crying. And I said, Mum, you know, what's the matter? Are you okay? And she said, I've only got, we've only got $5. This is all I have. You know, we've got nothing. And she was very overwhelmed. And upset. I said, it's okay, like, I don't need a lunch order, we've got stuff in the cupboard, it's all right. And that stuck with me all day. I remember feeling really uneasy all day at school, you know. Came home and Mum was very quiet, but nothing remarkable. I woke up in the middle of the night and we were 45 minutes away from the closest town and my Mum had taken every pill in the house and drank. She was trying to end her life.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 18:47
How old were you then, do you think?
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 18:49
I was about 11. It was huge. It was excruciating, you know, and calling my auntie. I called my auntie to settle me down. You know, she was my mother's older sister. She, God rest her soul, she was a really beautiful woman and a miss fix-it for my mum and for us. She would often turn up when things were turning to custard, you know. She calmed me down and then, you know, I called called the ambulance and, you know, we waited and my mother was really in a bad way. You know, that I felt really, if that hadn't happened to me, my mother might not have done this. So again, I internalized all of the blame, shame, took it all on in myself. You know, this is you, this is your fault. And you know, what we know is the difference between guilt and shame. Guilt, you know, I've done a bad thing. Shame, I am a bad thing. And that really was a theme throughout my life after that, you know. It was really—
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 19:44
it was a story you told yourself. Yeah, I'm not okay, I'm responsible. Yeah, other people's— yeah, misfortunes.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 19:56
Yeah, I've given her— sorry, I've given her a name, Gina, now, you know. When she starts to bark at me, Gina, you're not welcome today.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 20:03
Mine's called Hippo.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 20:05
Yeah, the hippocampus. Yeah, yours is Gina. I don't know where that came from, but yep, Gina be gone. Yeah, you're not welcome here. So yeah, and look, people didn't realize, you know, that we— Mum went to hospital, obviously she survived. I, as part of my, you know, what had happened to me, I was actually awarded a scholarship to be able to leave town and go to boarding school, you know, because my perpetrator was kind of, you know, wandering around and there was risk that I'd see them. And, you know, for me also, it was a bit of a restart, a bit of an opportunity to get out of town. And I think too, a bit of respite for my mother, you know, the concept that Mum wasn't coping and that going to school— and so I went away to boarding school, and for me it was And this is where the story gets good. You know, it was a reset. I could, you know, show up as myself, away from what had happened. I was— it was an all-girls boarding school, and some people don't, you know, agree with that concept. For me, it was such a safe, beautiful environment. All women around me. The nuns were very kind to me. I have no doubt they had a bit of understanding about what had happened for me, but I I didn't think about it, to be honest with you. I was just so excited to be with all of the other girls. And in that time, I discovered I could sing. I found my music teacher. I was in choir and we were all singing, and she said, 'Everybody stop, Cecilia, keep singing.' And she called my mum and said, 'Look, I think Cecilia really has got quite a gift and she needs to start singing lessons.' Oh, there's a movie in this. So I started singing lessons and I just launched myself as the singer. You know, people would, you know, Cecilia the singer.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 21:55
Oh, that gives me goosebumps. That's beautiful. I just think of music teacher too and the power of music, all of it together. Wow. That's a beautiful— Yeah.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 22:05
And what we know is that, you know, from like around sort of somatic concepts, you know, somatic healing, singing, you know, if I've really got something I need to get out of my body, I have to sing it out of me, you know, I have to sing it out. And I've always— I trained as a classical singer, you know, mezzo-soprano, trained for 7 years. But it was blues and gospel and soul music that really affected me because you could feel it. And for me, that sort of in body, mind, spirit.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 22:39
You're a female Elvis, aren't you? That was what he'd gone to too, wasn't it? Yeah, similar story, you know.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 22:46
Yeah, very much so. Yeah, singing just sort of released all of that. I was able to just kind of be myself, you know, just truly, you know. There was some difficult moments obviously, but I was just really happy to be at school with my friends and very excited about my life ahead, you know, and planning. I wanted to do a timer of opera. That was my intention. But the impact of my trauma as a young person, you know, it had an impact on me. So the first serious boyfriend that I had, I fell madly in love with him. He, you know, I— what were the words? It was, 'I'm here for you, you know, you won't have to do anything alone anymore. Again, I've got you.' And at the time, that was music to my ears. But you know, that was the beginning of another very painful chapter for me. And as I talked to you before, I was involved with the Lived Experience Reference Group for the criminalization of coercive control in New South Wales. So for the last 2 years, I've been heavily involved with the awareness campaign around coercive control and the impacts. And I was kind of a sitting duck for that, really. And what I'm really hearing from your story, Cecilia, is one, despite the enormity of the trauma that you experienced and then having to go through court, then not long after, you know, the breakdown of your parents' marriage, having to be witness to your mom's attempted suicide, all in a very short space of time, just one of those on their own is enough to really you know, impact a young human being. And at the same time, there were these little buds of lightness that popped into your life that, you know, you were able to still— whether or not it's some something about the youth, the innocence, or just that innate essence of who we are perhaps— that can still lean in to those things even in the backdrop of still you know, it was bubbling away. The trauma's still bubbling away.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 24:59
But, you know, as, as we know, the, the saying, um, the book, you know, The Body Keeps Score.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 25:05
But we are still trying to engage with life. We are still, you know, you are able to open yourself up to singing too, and that's become a running theme in your world. And to find even then some sense of healing and merit to that, and just, you know, something was resonating within you, vibrating within you, if you like. So it's testament to the human spirit, isn't it? Very much so. Yeah, an elder, you know, who I respect incredibly, said to me, you know, Cecilia, in this life our responsibility is to find our gifts and our purpose is to give them away.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 25:43
I love that. Say that again. I love that.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 25:46
Yeah, so our responsibility is to find our gifts and our purpose is to give them away.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 25:52
Yeah. Love it. I really love it. And it is true, isn't it? It's very joyful when you can acknowledge something that you know you do well, like in your heart, and you, you know, and then you're doing it and it, it's like fun. It's not hard work.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 26:09
Yeah, exactly. And it's, you know, it's funny, I, I've known from a very young age that using my voice is something that brings me great joy. That I feel quite purpose-driven in using my voice. And it was always singing, and it still is singing. I still sing, but using my voice in this way too. You know, I was talking to Maz earlier around that, you know, in my culture we have songlines and they've been around for thousands of years. And our songlines have kind of kept us safe. And our songlines— so our songlines being songs being artwork, being dance, and they identify a roadmap on our country of where the waterholes are, where the food is, where the safety is. And I feel that sharing my story and the experiences that I've had and the way that I've navigated them, in good ways and in bad ways, is a bit of a roadmap for other women at times, you know, because I've really looked for that so much because, yeah, I, my mother had a stroke when I was 20 and she was 60. She's been in a nursing home ever since. And I've got some family and I've got my family, you know, that are very good to me. What I have found throughout what's been a common feature for me is looking for other women who have something that I can grow with and that are willing to share that information. You know, that concept of sisterhood and caring and care. I've read somewhere the other day, like, you— healing comes when you can become the person that you needed. And you know, that's what I want for my life. And I seek out— I've got so many amazing, beautiful women in my life and my mum, you know, although her capacity to support me in some ways is very diminished and it's been very diminished throughout my adult life. And a lot of my forgiving my mum and really, you know, finding empathy for her experience through my own experiences as a mother, you know, I've done that away from my mum. I read somewhere also that when you're 21, you're able to move from that relationship with your mum when she she's, you know, she's the mom and you're the child and you're two women together. And I have that with my older daughters, you know, we're navigating that. We're not there all the time, but you know, I like, you know, the empathy for my experience and my empathy for my mother at the time, you know, I had just so much sadness, like the wounds that it left with me. She didn't want to be there. You know, she didn't want to be there and I wasn't enough for her to want to be there. But now, you know, I can acknowledge that that's so incredibly nuanced and she was in an incredible amount of pain and overwhelm. And so yeah, processing that and I've done a lot of different things to be able to do that. Yeah.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 29:14
Abandonment is a really hard, hard feeling. I, I think it's a, a feeling for a child that takes so much time to repair. And so the world provides a lot of opportunities for abandonment, you know, in social media and in workplaces and in social settings, and it can be quite triggering. So I work a lot on abandonment myself personally, and it's a very hard one for a child. To then process and continue to process with the hippo thoughts in as you get older.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 29:54
Yeah, and really that sense of I'm in this alone left me in a lot of unhealthy, unsafe situations because I was wanting to be saved. And I wonder if you might just be able to, going back to those times, Cecilia, on the discussion around abandonment, it is Definitely. And I think to your point, Mon, that there's lots of places that we can go to try and fill that cup, but there are also some really, really healthy ones. It was a phrase called divine compensation, and that references when you didn't get what you anticipated, expected, or kind of had a right to. So a parent that you— that let you down in, you know, wasn't able to be there for you in such a difficult trauma, when you look back, there was usually other people or things around you that kind of filled that space. And so that is other mentors, just a key person, friends. Yes, as I certainly know, that was my experience, and by people that would have never even realized that they were that. Do you look back and see Specific things that in that vein of divine compensation that someone else was sort of taking that lead for you in that time? Totally, yeah. At the time, I, you know, I'm painfully neurodiverse, so I've always been quite a demonstrative, you know, and I'm a singer too, so I remember kind of just being very dramatic and being very caught up in my emotions as a young person. And, you know, developing discomfort tolerance, you know, sitting with discomfort. It's not gonna kill me. This is really uncomfortable. I feel incredibly alone. And, you know, my spirituality, you know, I've, I've, I was raised in the Catholic Church. I've tried on a couple of different hats. For me, my spirituality is an Aboriginal woman, you know, on the darkest times for me, like at the moments when, you know, the hottest winds have come through and blown off every single one of my labels. So I'm not left with any ego, I'm just left with pain. And, you know, I've had that at other times in my life. When I can truly surrender and open myself to I don't have any control here, engage with a bit of radical acceptance, you know, like this is what it is, this is what's in front of me. Things conspire, you know, that divine, you know, I feel like a chorus of my ancestors around me and I know it sounds like unusual but I feel them and, you know, I felt them then too. Did you? I love that.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 32:51
And so did Maz.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 32:52
We both We both went like that at the same time. Yeah, no, I've, you know, that I, I've certainly— because as an Aboriginal woman, I believe that our people are far more potent and powerful when they pass to the Dreamtime, when they go to the other side. They've got ways that they can conspire to improve, to put things in front of you if you're willing to see them and if you're willing to engage with those things. And yeah, I've got some pretty amazing ancestors. Yeah, they've got my back.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 33:24
And I think that singing— that teacher that saw your gift in singing would have been another one of those beautiful people that came along with divine compensation.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 33:34
Yeah, my counselor, who was incidentally— it was probably a conflict of interest. I didn't have this, but she was my mum's very dear friend, and she was working at the community center as a sexual counselor.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 33:47
She would have loved you as well.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 33:48
Oh, I— she taught me to swim. She taught me to swim and she taught me to navigate what's left, you know. Sorry, a shout out to that lovely lady for you.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 34:00
Yeah, yeah, hopefully she'll get to listen to this.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 34:02
Yeah, good person. Really, really good, no-nonsense person. They're my favorite people. I think when you've experienced significant trauma. I really like cut-and-dry people. I like very direct, cut-and-dry people. Yeah, don't leave me guessing, just tell me as it is. So we're now going to walk ourselves through the last part of our conversation here with the beautiful Cecilia McKenzie, who is kindly sharing her story of dealing with some childhood trauma, but how she's turned, as Mon would say, her pain into purpose and really gone on to do some incredible things. In this part, we want to hear from you, Cecilia, earlier about what your nuggets of wisdom are in around what some key things that really helped you move forward and what you've learned from it that our listeners, our viewers are able to hold on to as they walk their own journey. The truth, you know, if we spend our life stilling ourselves, healing ourselves to listen to to the truth of our wisdom, our internal wisdom. We all have that. Life is really complex and noisy, you know, and things come our way and we don't always hear it. But it starts off as a whisper. It starts off as a little gentle tap on the shoulder. Then it's a whisper, and then it gets a bit louder, and then it starts yelling at you, and then everything turns to custard and you're left in the wake of it all. But there's actually, you know, I'll never say it was okay what happened to me. I'll never, you know, it wasn't my fault what happened to me. My healing is my responsibility though. Nobody else's. Nobody can do that walk for me. Nobody could, you know, meet those paths. And being a mother, you know, the most important gift I want to give to my children, my daughters, is the capacity to be self-reflective and sit with their wounds and sit with the pain and process the pain. Because that's your responsibility. It's not your fault, but it's your responsibility what you do with what's left. And you can't walk around that mountain. You can't walk through it. You gotta go right over the top of that But on that journey, you learn so much stuff about yourself. And, you know, I, I kind of link it to, you know, when a bodybuilder builds the weight, they actually tear muscles. They actually do these little micro tears, and in that process, they build their muscles. I feel like each time you pass the hard stuff in a healthy way and you sit with it and you process it and you let the wisdom that it brings you bubble to the surface, you've got more grit for the next thing, and you've got more the next thing, and then the next thing. You know, it's not all rosy and it's excruciating. Like, I'm pretty put together today, but sometimes I'm not, and that's okay too. Yeah, the hell goes to custard. Gonna borrow that. Those wisdoms are amazing.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 37:21
And don't we look forward to when we have the soufflé days, you know? So the custard days, you know, it makes the soufflé days even more wonderful. So, but the custard days aren't that pleasant when you've got to sit in it. But I think too, would you suggest that hearing a little bit about your upbringing that, you know, the key is to sit in it and feel it? Because what do they say, naming to tame. Naming to tame it, and taming it is by feeling it.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 37:51
And yeah, very much. And, and, you know, if it's too much, don't sit in the room by yourself, you know. Where— no, like, the opposite to addiction is connection, you know.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 38:03
That's right.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 38:03
We're communal beings. It's, you know, reach out to safe places, because when we tell our truth in safe places, we Free ourselves. I grew up on a farm and there was some very lonely, isolating times. Now, you know, I'm here on the farm and it's— the narrative's shifted completely. I love, you know, we were over in Goulburn, my husband— I found a really safe, beautiful one— we, um, we were off at an event. We're coordinating a— the Goulburn Country Music Event. So we were with a group of board, and we— it's an opportunity for people who love music to just come and connect and enjoy. And we had our first one yesterday, you know, and it was exhausting and exciting and wonderful.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 38:49
And I—
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 38:49
my husband and I looked at each other and said, time to go to the farm now, time to go home, had enough.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 38:57
Yeah, listening to you and the, the sharing of stories for future generations is that storytelling that has got so lost in so many ways, particularly face-to-face, the storytelling. You know, this is a lovely storytelling, and our First Nations people have taught us the power of storytime, but we lost it for a long time. And if you, you know, you follow some of the mental health readings with sort of the invention of Facebook, even though people are sharing stories, led to the drop of sharing stories, which is kind of a whole— and disconnection. And, and Johann Hari talks about it, that, you know, lost connections happened as we introduced social media.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 39:46
Absolutely, absolutely. I love what you've shared, and I think, you know, just even you've just come straight in with, you know, the truth of your internal wisdom. I love that. And I really am hoping that the listeners can lean into that. And it's such a simple thing, but how often do we turn off that inner voice, that little tug, that physical feeling, and we just tune out. And as you say, you know, it's, it's, you know, the wisdom can come through with that little bit of a whisper, but if we're not paying attention or not trusting it exactly, Sim, yeah, it's in comes the Mack truck, but it's like it will get you.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 40:29
I also love what you've shared about that it's our responsibility to discover our gifts and our purpose to share them. I love that. Beautiful.
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 40:41
Yeah, yeah.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 40:42
Oh, well, really grateful for your contribution and knowing how important it is to share your stories as Celia, because it's only through this that we can find a better healing world than what we've got. It's a beautiful, beautiful word when you are recognizing someone has something to share that's very painful. And words of sympathy are often very destructive, like, oh, I feel for you, or oh, you poor thing, you know. Sayings like that are so destructive. And that's a really beautiful suggestion is just to say, what do you need from me?
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 41:25
Yeah.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 41:27
I'm here. Well, we're so grateful you're on the Lived Experience Advisory for New South Wales Government. I applied for that, so I'm glad you got accepted. And yeah, really wonderful to know that you're stewarding some decisions around good support for survivors of domestic abuse. And it's really terrific to know that you're a part of that, Cecilia McKenzie. We are really, really grateful to have you on this show, Consig Heroes, and Grit Diaries, From Grit to Grace. You have so much beautiful grace around you. You've really touched my heart with so many wonderful wisdoms. Is there anything else you'd like to say, Maz?
Mon & Mazz (Host) · 42:12
I'd just like to add, you have such an articulate voice in this space, and I love that you have gone on to be in a place where you're in the change-making, decision-making space rather than, you know, and that takes a lot of tenacity and drive and motivation and a desire to see change for people. That are coming up behind you and really trying to change things for them. And not an easy road to be on. And, you know, to be where you are now with having to raise your own family on top of that, I applaud you for, for what you've done. And you really will be inspiring so many just by sharing your story and the way that you can frame it. And your wisdoms are amazing. So thank you. Thank you so much for being on The Grit Diaries.
Cecilia Mckenzie (Guest) · 43:12
Wonderful. Thanks, Maz, and thank you, Cecilia. You've made my day. Thank you. All right, until next time.
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