Yaser Naseri · 91 min
Yaser Naseri survived a deadly boat disaster that killed over 200 people, multiple detention escapes, and years of stateless limbo, and emerged with a philosophy of resilience that challenges every listener to reframe their own struggles.
Hear this story
In 2009, Yaser Naseri attended a protest in Tehran against Iran's government. He was young, passionate, and wanted to speak up about injustice. The regime's response was swift and brutal. Friends were arrested. One close friend was shot and died in hospital weeks later. Yaser knew that staying meant risking arrest or worse. With another friend, he packed and left, heading to Indonesia with almost no plan and no money.
What followed was a series of attempts to reach safety that tested him in ways he could not have imagined. Four failed boat attempts. An escape over an immigration checkpoint wall into farmland with nothing but instinct guiding him. Then the fifth attempt: a boat carrying 250 people that capsized in 10-meter waves. Yaser found himself in the ocean, swimming toward an overturned hull, watching waves rotate the vessel and people lose their grip. A fisherman rescued only 34 of the 80 clinging to the wreck. The rest were never found. Of roughly 250 people on that boat, only 47 survived.
After rescue came detention, locked in a room with 16 others, no yard access, people losing hope beside him. Yaser escaped and registered with UNHCR, then spent three years in Jakarta on almost nothing, surviving on charity, learning languages, building friendships that changed how he understood what mattered. When he finally reached Australia, he carried something that could not be taken from him: a clarity about what he could control and what he could not. Today, he works full-time, has built a life in Sydney, and rarely complains. Not because the hard things stopped happening. Because he knows the difference between a problem and a genuine catastrophe, and he chooses to act on what is in his power.
“I don't give up internally. Things get tough outside. Sometimes I want to pack and go for a week definitely, but internally I never.”
“It was a mental game.”
“When you are in a tough situation you need help support and you see a stranger coming to help you you can't put a name on it, can't put a dollar value on it.”
The hero, today
Yaser knew there was risk attached to protesting against the Iranian regime because he heard the stories of people being jailed, lashed, and hanged, but he could not stay quiet when he saw injustice. When Yaser escaped the immigration checkpoint, he didn't think through what would happen after the wall, he just knew he had to pass it and figure it out once he was far enough away. In the detention center after the boat sank, Yaser had moments where his body gave up completely and he couldn't move, but something in him didn't want to give up and he had to deal with the situation as it was. Three years in Jakarta surviving with almost no money taught Yaser that he had internal capabilities he didn't know he had, and that maturity and worldview can't be taught by any university or teacher, only by surviving those situations. Yaser rarely complains now because he knows the depth of hardship he survived, and he learned that what he can control is his choice, his effort, and whether he gives up internally, not the system or circumstances around him. Stories are what keep people close to each other and help people understand better, and Yaser does not decide what people need from his story but trusts that people will take what they need from hearing it.
Yes. Yaser Naseri is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Yaser knew there was risk attached to protesting against the Iranian regime because he heard the stories of people being jailed, lashed, and hanged, but he could not stay quiet when he saw injustice.
When Yaser escaped the immigration checkpoint, he didn't think through what would happen after the wall, he just knew he had to pass it and figure it out once he was far enough away.
In the detention center after the boat sank, Yaser had moments where his body gave up completely and he couldn't move, but something in him didn't want to give up and he had to deal with the situation as it was.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 00:16
Hello and welcome to From There to Here, the podcast where we talk about what it takes to leave your homeland and rebuild a new life Far From Home. I'm your host, Emma Bellamy, and today my guest is Yaser Nazari. Yaser has a story, I'm not gonna lie, that left me speechless for a good chunk of the interview. He's a former refugee who fled Iran after political activism made it too dangerous for him to stay. In this episode, he recounts the situation that led him to escape to Indonesia and how multiple failed escape attempts, including a deadly boat disaster, profoundly shaped him. He recalls surviving at sea, his time spent in immigration detention centers, and the everyday struggles of life as an asylum seeker with minimal language skills or financial resources. I have to warn you, Yaser shares some pretty graphic details about his deadly boat journey, and it may be tough for some people to hear. If you'd rather avoid being triggered, feel free to use the timestamps in the show notes to skip that part of his journey. If you choose to listen though, I think it will move you deeply. It might also bring some perspective, a new way of seeing things, and help you reframe whatever it is that you are going through. Either way, I hope Yaser's story resonates with you as much as it did with me. Okay, let's begin the episode. Yaser Nazari, welcome to the podcast From There to Here. Thank you for joining me and for being willing to share your story as a former refugee and the wisdom you gained along the way.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 02:18
Sure. Thank you very much for having me. It's a pleasure. Yay.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 02:23
So Yaser, you are originally from Iran.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 02:26
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Three years in Jakarta surviving with almost no money taught Yaser that he had internal capabilities he didn't know he had, and that maturity and worldview can't be taught by any university or teacher, only by surviving those situations.
This conversation includes a normal life in tehran, the green movement and speaking up, the protest that changed everything, the decision to flee and arrival in jakarta, caught at the immigration checkpoint and escape over the wall.
Yeah.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 02:27
I'd love if you could take us back to what your life was like over there before everything changed. You know, how did you grow up and who was Yaser Nazari back then?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 02:38
Yeah, sure. I guess like other normal people, let's say. It was a normal life, you know, I was, um, I was born in Tehran, I grew up there and all my childhood, my teenage time, my kind of school, high school and all the life story back then, you know, as a normal person, you know, going to school with relatives and family and getting friends and playing in the neighborhood and discovering my town. Traveling a bit, you know, in different towns and cities, and then working, of course, in different kind of industries, offices, work with family for a bit. I actually worked for family a lot in terms of small business they own, and I was helping them. So that was kind of my life, and I had a lot of time with good friends because spending time with friends in Iran is kind of big chunk of it. After work, usually hang out and, you know, you go for food or for, you know, not drink. Drink is not allowed. It's not like Australia to sip beers or something, but you spend a lot of time with friends after work or over in the weekend as well. And life was all right. Life was okay. It was tough compared to, it's very different lifestyle compared to Australia. They call it third world countries, first world countries. There are, there are differences. I was kind of used to it, so.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 04:13
What kind of differences? Tell me more about that.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 04:16
It's funny because I have a lot of Australian friends who came to me and start complaining and, you know, talking about their toughness or tough life or, you know, challenges they have. I say, ah, come on, luxury problems again, first world problems. So it's really easy to compare now where people identify as problem over there or issue or challenge to compare it to people who talk about problems, people talking about in the context of Australia. So I guess both group experience challenges, but in a very different scale and depth. And when you are in it, you're used to it. You learn how to deal with it. You learn how to overcome it. You You learn how to go around it. And then now when I look back, some of them was very difficult in that system, in that context. Life is very, very different. For example, there is not much government support. The minimum wages are so low. Working hours is too long. The weather, the water, the, whatever you look at it, it's in a different standard, which make life harder and harder. But there are good things there as well. Not saying everything is bad, you know, the community, the togetherness, the individualism that we have here in Western world, we don't have it much over there. So you really feel belong and connected to people because you spend a lot of time with relatives, family, and friends. Whereas here in Australia, I found that's the opposite. And in that sense, life a bit difficult here.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 06:03
And in Iran, was there some sense of political struggle? Because I know that you were involved in the Green Movement, and that was part of your involvement in that movement that led you to escape, right? So tell me more about that.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 06:20
I guess We, we went to the kind of a comparison phase now, but it's good to look at it because when you are in it again, you can't see it. But when you're out of the box and you look into it, say, oh, I can see now where I was or how I was thinking and my worldview and everything. One thing is very interesting that I found Iranian, maybe I can generalize it to Middle Eastern people, but for sure Iranian, especially Iranian young people or Iranian population, are more political than Australian or other countries' nationalities I've encountered and lived in. So I can say that Iranian for sure are more political or politically driven. I don't know what's the reason, but it's in everyday life. So as I was growing up there, you start to understand going out of your comfort zone. You go to neighborhood, then you go to work, and then you start hearing the news, what's going on in your country with everything and with politics. And I was a bit interested in that, so I was more into it, you know, following news, going to protest, doing this and that. And my friends were similar as well, so we would share same interest. And then I start learning about all these injustices and inequalities and the religious dictatorship. And I was growing, I, I was breathing in it, but I couldn't see it. And then along the way I start to understand that, oh, I don't want that. You know, I don't want to be forced to do this or that. Or there are some fundamental issues here in the society that we really don't want it. I mean, compulsory hijab, we don't want it for our girls, for our friends, you know, or inequality between men and women. We don't want that. There are a lot of, lot of political issues, or government controls people. There's not much freedom. What you wear, they have control over you and they wanna control it to how you think, what you study, what you consume, everything. So after a while it become confronting. It become too difficult to just ignore it, which some people do, but I never been that person. So I wouldn't keep quiet if I seen justice. I couldn't keep quiet if I see something wrong, I should call it out. And I was known for that craziness a bit.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 08:55
Did you know that there were a risk attached to doing it?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 08:58
Yeah, because again, part of those news that you are consuming and things you hear as you grow up is that People are being hanged, people are being imprisoned, people are being lashed out. All these kind of news that government put pressure on people in different ways, you know, long time jail, a lot of courts, I don't know, lashes, even hanging. So these things are common in Iran. You hear it all the time. So when you hear things about politics and protest and going against the regime, you know there is risk attached and there is no joke. It's always in my speeches or wherever I go share my story, especially in refugee space. I do that a lot. So one example I give is like, because I guess it helped Australians better understand. That here if you want to protest, you go to town hall and you protest. You've been butchered and police come there, protect you. I remember first time in Sydney, we were rallying in George Street and I saw big horses, the police with horses kind of accompany us, protect the protesters and, you know, helping us to, to do the rally. And I was, I was really shocked because the first impression for us, the police is not there to protect. Police is there to get rid of you, to shoot you, to scare you, to keep you out of the street. So that's another difference between that country, third world country, or, you know, at least where I grew up, and Australia. So we knew for sure. There is risk attached and, um, but you did it anyway. But you do it anyway. And, and it's not only me. People have been doing it anyway. Yeah. People have been doing it for years and years. Even as we speak, I have people in my age or even younger, girls and boys in jail, in detention centers in Iran, under the dictatorship, you know, or being punished for coming out and speak up. So, and a lot of them being killed, like in recent protest that we had a couple of years ago, a Woman Life Freedom, which was huge. It was all over the world. We even have, we had a lot of rallies with Iranian community here in Sydney. Um, uh, a lot of, lot of young people went to the street and said, enough is enough. We, we don't want this regime. We don't want control. We want our freedom back. And roughly 1,500 were shot and killed. That, that's simple. And, and again, in, in the context of Australia, you can't even digest that. Like it doesn't go well together, right? Like 1,500 in protests being killed.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 12:09
Why?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 12:10
So over there, these kind of things every few years, it's a common thing. And the protest I was involved, which was much older, almost similar. People go to a street. We were silent back then. I was against the regime and found that reason to go to a street and shout against the regime. And after 3, 4 days, they start attacking us. And the rest of the story, you know, a lot of people were shot. A lot of my friends got arrested. One of my very close friend got shot and He was in, in hospital and he died in bed after a few days because the bullets went through somewhere it shouldn't, you know, he was very sensitive. I think it was near his heart or something. And he survived for, I guess, 1 or 2 months on bed and then he passed away. He couldn't survive. So that was kind of the start of my journey, which I wasn't expecting, I wasn't planning for it. I just went to protest, as simple as that. And I was very young, wanted to contribute to society. I was passionate. I was with friends who had the same goal, like the young people now doing the same. The shooting happened and the arrest happened and the killing happened and the crackdown. So everyone went home. You know, people are scared. There is gun, there is shooting. It was serious. It was after a few days, it become like a war in the street and they back off and we went to our home. It was quiet for a while. And what happened usually with these things, I mean, Iranians maybe understand this better, or people who been in protest in such kind of countries or such context. Um, after a few months, usually government go through the cameras, the photos, the names, people who are arrested, they have to come up with a list of names. Then they start cracking people down. They go chase people and they get you. I had friends, they arrest him few months after the protest was gone, cuz everything was calm. They come at his door, they took him to somewhere we even didn't know. And after a few months we thought, okay. We have heard that he's in jail and he has to go through the court process and there are some claim against him. And that happen a lot. That happen after each protest and sometimes they looking for excuse or better say they're looking for people to put at front and say, hey, these are the reason they did this, this, this, and that to kind of change the scenario and the story back to the population that, hey, these are from I don't know, backed with Israeli people, or it is backed with America, or these are spies, you know, different scenarios and stories. You're gonna attach to those people and punish them to kind of control the, the community. That's how it usually works. And that's repeatedly happened after each protest each time. So I wasn't shot. I was so lucky and I was not arrested, although a lot of my friends were. And I couldn't find that safe because I wasn't one of those people back, just protest and go home. I was always at the front and I knew I would be in trouble if my friends were arrested. So that's the start of thinking that I have to leave. Otherwise, one of those nights they come for me.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 15:49
And you remember when you took that decision and the day where you actually left?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 15:56
Yeah, well, it's been how many years? 15 years now. I remember the challenge on those, especially those few weeks that a few of friends were arrested one by one with a few weeks gap. And it makes me seriously thinking, and that few weeks was so difficult because I knew something coming, so you're gonna be risky. And I knew if I go out, you're gonna be another journey. I had no clue. I had no idea what gonna be out of Iran. Never been there, never tried it, never. So it was safety and risk and everything between. So yeah, one day with another friend. We packed and we say, well, let's go, otherwise they come after us. And there are evidence because they called us to court after we left. Not only me, a lot of group of people, we were connected. And after that protest, I usually don't go to that depth in my stories, but after that protest, it took a while, but I had a lot of friends been arrested, one been killed, which was early on after the protest. And I have a lot of friends left Iran after that because they had the same story. And I have friends all over the world now because of that, because they couldn't stay. You know, you can't live with fear that anytime they can catch you and you're gone, you, you're done, you finished your career, your life, your work, and the stress it's gonna, they gonna put on your family if you're arrested and all that. So that was all of this thinking and stress and fear. Pack and go, figure them out.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 17:55
Yeah. Well, I guess I totally understand why you would leave knowing that at some point they're gonna get you and, you know, so tell me more about the journey that you made from Iran to Indonesia and also your journey in Indonesia because you stayed many years there.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 18:14
Yeah, well, that's the other part. When I made the decision, and of course I was talking to friends and I, I could see like people went to Europe, to Turkey, they were leaving one by one and say, yes, it's not safe, we are leaving, we are going. And they did. And that kind of pushed me to think more seriously. And, uh, the close friend of mine said, hey, You know, we should think about this. This is serious. So we decided to leave and then the time we decided, we start looking for way after that decision, like, okay, so what are the options? You know, we would ask friends here or there, you know, like we just need to leave. And, um, there are more into it that I can really share, but eventually because we had to leave. Quick and we had to leave to certain places. And the reason is that our passport didn't, or even now doesn't hold much value. So there are certain countries that you can just take a flight and go in and get visa on arrival. And Indonesia back then was one of them. That's why it was quick to go to Indonesia. Plus we had similar stories with other friends who went there and say, hey, He found a route here and then you can talk to smugglers and they take you to Australia and then it's safer, uh, if you wanna try this way. Otherwise you have to go to Turkey and then the same story over there. Like, was like, I go to west or I go to east. But again, a friend was with me, so we had to leave quickly, quick decision. And then it was easier to go to Indonesia. And then we found the smuggler as well because we didn't know anyone in Turkey and it was just coincidence as well along the way. We happen to know someone who knows a smuggler and then we talk to him and then we end up in Indonesia. The promise was 2 weeks. They literally told us that, uh, roughly 2 weeks you gonna go and then we help you in 2 weeks. We give you a unit or someplace to live and then we call you one night and we go, you know, the boat story, which is everyone kind of knows about it back then. Had no idea. Again, it was my first time coming out and see what the journey like. So I knew it wasn't a touristy trip, but I didn't know it can go that wrong as well. So we arrived in Jakarta, the smuggler picked us up and, uh, he said, well, this is your motel. You go in there, there's a room, stay there. I'll come and pick you up. And that was the start of our journey. And in Indonesia, I knew no one. I just had friend with me. I didn't know any English, no language, just hello, how are you? This is Bindu. That's all. So nothing, no culture awareness, nothing, nothing. And a bunch of Iranians we met along the way there in the first week or so because they had different story, but they wanted to go as well. And one week and then second week and they change our place to another unit and another unit and then we become more people, 7 people in 2 bedroom and then we went down and see, oh, there are a lot of people actually living here waiting to go. So it was their gathering place and I'm learning these as I go through the journey. So I'm running out of the money. I know no one, no English, just my friend who I left Iran with. I randomly call back home to see how's things going. My visa running out, one month visa I had only. So I was going against the time and I knew, ooh, if my visa finishes, I'm illegal here.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 22:10
Yeah.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 22:11
And then along the way you talk to other asylum seekers and refugee And they tell you about the story of arrest in Indonesia, sinking, wrong people smuggler, stealing, and all those bad stories. And it was terrifying. And I was coming to the reality of it. And then one week, and then second week, and then fourth week, and then our visa was gone because one month we were there. And they are trying to push the people smuggler there. They were a team who were just calling them, telling them, you know, pushing them. Nothing. You don't have power. You don't have anything to hold on. You can make them angry and they just can take you off the list and, you know, go bye-bye. No authority, nothing. So I had to be patient and it took 2 months. And then finally we had the first attempt. And like, say attempt because I had 5, 4 or 5 attempt. They call us one night, pack and go, let's, let's go. This is the night. So, okay, finally after 2 months, and we were in a, these big high-rises in Jakarta, like big buildings. We went to the parking, a lot of people. It was 10 vans. It was like movies, exactly like movies, like these, I don't know, Chinese or Asian movies you see, big criminals. So we went all the way down, the security guards were paid, chipped the door open. We went from elevator to the parking, like, I guess it was -3 or -4 parking. It was huge. And then the vans come one by one, each van with 7, 8 people. Go, next one, next one, next one. And roughly it was 10 men I could kind of see. And then we start to leave and it was all black, but all the, the windows were dark and from outside you couldn't really see in, but we could see outside and we could see we leave Jakarta, we leave those lights and it was night. And then little by little we found ourselves in the middle of bush. Going through a road. It was few hours. We were excited that finally, you know, after 2 months we are leaving and we gonna go to our journey to the next place, which we knew it's not safe here. We don't have any future here. We can't go back. You know, it was very bad situation. We felt really stuck, but now we are going. And after a few hours it was really dark. Imagine you go middle of the bush somewhere in Australia, something like that. No light, nothing. It was just cars going by. And it was out of Jakarta, a few hours out of Jakarta, and suddenly in the middle of nowhere, they stopped the van. And it was all immigration officers waiting for us. I don't know how. I have no idea still, but that was my first experience to go to take the boat and then you were stopped on the way. So again, it was shocking. We didn't know, is it immigration? Is it real? They bought them. We, we have, we have heard a lot of stories about people smuggler pay these people and all that, and we were trying to keep the hope. After that, an hour later, they put us in immigration office in the middle of nowhere called, I don't know, it was a village or a little small town with a, with a big immigration office. And we found ourselves there after 2 months and all those stories. And I said, no, this is real. We are not going anywhere. We are on the arrest. Um, and we were under arrest by immigration in Indonesia. Mm-hmm. You know, again, no language, we couldn't really communicate. There was people in the van in, because we built 10 van, like 70, 80 people roughly. Because until it took us to the immigration office in the yard, people come out and we could talk, see what's happening. And some of them could speak Bahasa Indonesia or English, and they were speaking these offices and said, you are under arrest and just go to the building. And that was a reality check.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 26:47
What did you do once you were under arrest?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 26:50
If I wanna go to all these details, I guess it's a lot, but I'll, I'll try. It's funny because whenever I go share a story, it's like, oh, you have 10 minutes to share your stories. Oh, it's 3 and a half years. I tried. Um, so that was the very first impression, right? You are under arrest by immigration of Indonesia, which you have heard a lot of story about. You have no visa. Your visa expired one month ago or so. You are nobody. You don't have like right ID, nothing. And then you're literally being arrested going with people, smugglers, to the shore to take a boat. You know, that's, they know the story. These are immigration people who've worked with this long time. So now I found myself in the yard, peak yard. It was middle of nowhere. There was a building, the offices were around, kids crying, people were chatting, they were shocked, they didn't know what to do. Some were arguing and some people wanted to go to toilet, right? It's, you know, we are, we have been traveling for hours now. We are, can we go toilet? Immigration officer, yeah, sure. And it was a little queue. The immigration officers were a bit confused. As well, we're trying to push people upstairs to the building to kind of manage them. And I found the opportunity. I've been asked a thousand times, I don't know where did I come from. And it happened a lot in that journey because it was not only first time, it happened a few more times. I saw an opportunity to go on the back of the toilet wall.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 28:32
Wow.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 28:33
And when I went there, I saw I'm hidden. So now they can't see me. And when they can't see me, I'm not there, right? And they were busy with these people to push them upstairs. Like, there were like 3, 4 immigration offices and there were 70 people on the yard. So it was a bit of chaos and I just could say my friend, I say, come. And he look at me and he look at his bag, which was front of the building. I said, forget it, just go. So he just run through me and then he come out of the, behind the wall and again, you are hidden, people busy, some run over to toilet, some wanna talk, some were pushed out on the second floor to the building and then I saw between the toilet and the main wall of that yard, there was 2 meters, so it was kind of safe. And there was 2-level wires and kind of fairly short wall, taller than me, but not that high. So I said, my friends, Mehdi, I said, Mehdi, this is the opportunity. We just go. And it was like this, all of this was like 10 seconds, you know. Behind the wall, ask him to come. And, uh, people were still shocked and I found that opportunity and then we got out.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 30:04
So you were in the middle of nowhere though, right?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 30:07
Exactly. So we knew we have to pass this wall, no idea what's next. And again, that happened a lot to me because in these kind of scenarios, You don't think that's a good thing. You don't think what is B, C, D, E, F. You just think about A, what is next step. And it was instinct, just came to me, pass this wall and go far as you can. Then you figure it out. So you don't really think, you just wanna go, you just wanna get out of this situation, which we did, we both did. And then we jump from the other side of the wall. Advantage was it was early on, they were busy with people. We could go silent, no drama. I found myself running 5 minutes between these farmlands. So it was like a big farm and a house and a big farm, a road. It was, you know, out of nowhere. So we just went, we were running. And then we felt safe because we are so far away now. We went to a street and it was like 2, 3 AM or even, yeah, midnight. Nobody's in the street. Two foreigners in a village. It was crazy. It wasn't a village. It was like a very small town. It was, yeah, weird. And, um, we saw a few Indonesian kids or young people, teenager. Were smoking in the midnight, playing, I don't know, they were playing something. We were so lucky. We couldn't expect anyone midnight, but there were people. That's, I guess, the nature of Indonesia. You always see people anytime you are. Doesn't matter when. And we asked, we wanna do a call. And some of them said, come to my store. And it was like a kofinet, you know, over there you can go pay and play internet or game or whatever. That was kind of store. My friend had a few hundred dollars on his shoes and I had like $10 in Indonesian money in my bag. That's all we had because in that 2 months we ran out of the money as well. So we offered some money. We called the smuggler, said, hey, this has happened. And he said, I know, where are you? So how do you know? Anyway, long story short. Later on I figured out that some of people in there had phone hidden somewhere and then they went to toilet and called the smuggler, hey, we are under arrest. So he already knew what happened and he said, hey, just get back your ass to Jakarta and we gonna rescue you. Or we come to get you, come front of in UNICEF building. That's the safest place you can go. Okay. How? I don't know. He dropped the phone and we went. Again, we couldn't communicate. We didn't know English. We didn't know Bahasa Indonesia. We just said Jakarta, Jakarta. And these guys say, oh, go there, go there, do this, do this. And they took this local little van they have. We squeeze in, we went to somewhere, a bigger town, and then we ask Jakarta. They show us a bus, we get the bus, and then It was 6 AM, we get back to Jakarta, 6, 7 AM, and ask people like UNICEF office, UNICEF office. There was no phone, there was no Google Map, we didn't have anything. And I remember we arrived hungry, we get these instant noodle, it was early morning and they had some, put some hot water in it and we start eating and then they show us UNICEF office and then We went sit there, people were going to work and we two foreigners sitting like homeless people in the street of Jakarta. I could see people looking at us like, what the heck these guys doing here? Anyways, long story short, the guy came, which was surprising. Usually they can not responding to you and go, right? I've heard a lot of stories. I met a lot of people who lost their money because they meet the smuggler, they give the money. They disappeared, but these people came back and say, hey, you know what happened? We sorry, we try again. We know your friends escaped. So after us, a few more people escaped. Again, I don't want to go to their story, but there was a bit of chaos over there and they, some of them could escape, some single people, not the family ones. And they arrived in the morning. After us and we could see people coming like dirty without shoes. So they had chaos to leave that center. And yeah, it was a reality check. It was like a slap on the face that, hey, this is what you're dealing with. Get ready. There is no guarantee when you're gonna go and what's the rest of it. And the toughness of the journey start from that.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 35:19
You had a few attempts, right, at leaving and then realizing that it was just not working out with the boats, I think.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 35:27
Yeah, so that was very first attempt that happened. And then after that, I had, I guess, 3 more attempts.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 35:36
Okay.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 35:37
3 more attempts, and each of them, for some reason, wasn't such. We couldn't even see the boat. We were arrested on the way, wrong smuggler, lost money. Again, it's a long story. Hopefully comes to my book one day, but it didn't work out until the last one that I went to. I finally saw a boat and went into it with 250 asylum seekers, and unfortunately Just 47 survived. So that was kind of my last attempt, which I literally got to the boat, finally went to the sea or ocean, and on the way we sank and 47 only survived.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 36:22
It's, um, it's really hard to imagine that, you know, you would be facing this. Yeah. When you think about it today, how does that make you feel that you were on this boat?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 36:34
Sometimes I feel it was a movie, it wasn't a reality because yeah, you, you just can see those, those things in the movie, not anywhere else, you know, not in real life. Um, people are screaming, 10-meter waves, upside down boat, people scatter around in the water screaming. Dead bodies around, kids, dad shouting for the kids, for the family. And yeah, and then you're in the middle of ocean, you don't see anything except water, you see big waves coming your way. And I could see the people or stuff from boat in the surface of the wave, it was so tall and high. And you can see all these things from the boat and all these people shouting, going up and coming down, by the way. And yeah, it was, it was like Hollywood movies, I can say.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 37:44
And how did you survive?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 37:50
I, by God or by luck, I don't know. When the boat sank, I exactly remember the sound, the shouting, the engine sound, the water pushed through the window coming to the boat from the ocean, people screaming, everything, all the objects going thrown on the air. And I just remember this happened in a second. In a few seconds, I found myself out of water, out of the boat. I don't know how. I feel water came from one window, pushed me from the other. Don't know. Happened too quickly. I exactly remember when the boat sank, it's, it went to one side, didn't come back, and from one side, water came from the window, and when I say window, it's just two holes. That's all. There is no door, no gate, nothing. There's two holes, square holes in the boat on each side. And I came out the water. I was already far away. Thanks God I knew how to swim. Although there's no guarantee if you swim in the ocean you survive. So I could hold to myself and I saw all these things around me. Boat was out there, people, life jackets, ropes, broken woods from the boat, all this rubbish all around the water, people scattered, 5, 10 different group, dead bodies, screaming, and the closest thing to me was a piece of wood. Like a king-size bed or smaller with a few people trying to hang on it. That was closest thing. So I swam toward them and I knew a few of them because they were in the boat. And actually one of those people were in that apartment that I was living before we came to the boat because we were 7, 8 people each in one unit. So I knew that person. And the rest, uh, were new, other South Africans. So I got to that wooden part, whatever it was, to just hold on it. And I saw these people, apparently myself as well, were freezed. You know, for a few seconds or minutes, we couldn't talk. We just freeze, shocked, and just watching what's happening. Again, I couldn't believe it, but I had to deal with it. It, it was, yeah, it was like Hollywood movies. And we start talking and people say, hey, you know, but what should we do next? We try to paddle together. People start arguing. So the boat was upside down out there. We could see it and we could see people who were close to it. Would swim back and get hold of it or go sit on top of it, which was upside down tilted. And there was a guy with us and he said, that boat gonna go down and kills everyone and everyone goes down with it. The other person said, no, it's wooden, it wouldn't go out or go down. So the argument starts and one person said, hey, That looks safer than this little wood. I'm going. He start paddling. Again, like the other example I told you, I don't know why I start swimming behind him.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 41:39
Wow.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 41:39
I left that wooden piece of wood with people, swim on back of him. I even, I get goosebumps when I think about it because So scary. So from there it was like, I don't know, maybe 5 minutes swimming or something like that. I was just thinking, what is the depth of water behind my body? Like, where am I? I'm in the middle of ocean. What's the depth? And I was thinking about shark. I was thinking about the depth. I couldn't stop looking inside, although it was burning my eyes because of the salt water. I could see the light coming 3, 4 meters to the water and it was black like a space. It was terrifying, but I couldn't stop watching it, like looking at it. So I was looking at that guy, looking at the boat, looking inside the water and just swimming. And that was, I was doing that routine. I was thinking about shark, but Everything. And then we finally get there and that was tough because I could see some of those people going and, you know, they survived on sitting on the back of the boats. A lot of blood because boat was upside down now and these things that stuck to the boat was breaking people. Dead bodies around and all the ropes and things from the boats. So we kind of push things aside to go get to that kind of the whole thing to the boat. And people helped us to come up. And again, boat is not stable. It's just a big piece of wood upside down. And I was kind of clinging to go up. I tear apart, you know, it, it cut me because those things that stuck to the boat, I don't know what they call it. Anyways, we sat there and I remember these two windows now are on a side, on the top, right? Like the boat was on its side tilted to the water. It's hard to describe. And 2 people sit in that window and the rest of people, the rest were holding onto them like a chain. So we did that for few hours because there was nothing to hold on. Again, it was survival mode. You know, they find these bags from the window inside. The boat. We would open them, find things, water. We keep the water, we throw out everything. And I saw father was shouting because he was watching his family dead in front of him in the water. And after, I don't know, an hour, I couldn't even see him because he just gave up and let waves get him. Um, yeah, I've seen a lot of these things in that few hours and the wave would come because in the middle of ocean, a tilted boat, it's not stability, it just rotates. So each time a big wave would come, it would rotate us and in each rotation we would lose people. That happened a few times that the wave came that was as strong as to rotate us. Again, it was screaming. People were praying. People calling Allah, Jesus, God, all different words you could hear. Crying, unfortunately. It was very bad. We were kind of trying to stay alive.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 45:44
How long you stayed in this situation for?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 45:48
I guess it was couple of hours, not sure how many, 2, 3, 4, something like that. And then we saw a seagull. When we saw the seagull, it was like we saw God. People like crying, screaming, because I don't know, it resonates hope or something. After Less than an hour seeing that seagull, we saw something approaching us, and that was a fisherman boat. Again, we were so far we couldn't see anything. It was just water. And then we saw a dot getting closer and getting bigger. And when he got close enough, we saw these Asian type boat with this round hat. It was, yeah, it was really very cute boat, but, but it was, we were like, ah, finally someone here to rescue us. But it was a small, very small boat. He was shocked when he saw the situation and he stopped. He didn't get close, which was very smart because he would sink too. So he saw us, it was, I don't know, 20, 30 meters away. He stopped. He literally stopped and he was saying something we couldn't hear, we couldn't understand. And again, instinct, people jumped to water, swimming toward him. And I was one of them. There is no decision making, there is no thinking processes. It's just your body, your instinct. Pushing you. So we start swimming and then I was one of the early ones and another people, 2, 3 of us get onto that and he helped us to come to the boat and then we help others to arrive and, you know, to, to get them to the boat and then he said, stop, stop, he was shouting. Um, and then this poor guy, there was a big block of ice. On his boat. He was threw it out for the wave and get more people. And then he suddenly says, stop, stop. And a lot of people couldn't swim, so they were shouting, watching us. Some were on the way swimming and some were already in the boat. And he said, if I get more, I mean, he wouldn't say that, but we could understand somehow. If we get more, we gonna sink. So he start the engine and he start running. And again, it wasn't on our control. He, he was panicked because he would be one of us as well, sinking in the middle of ocean. So in that boat, only 34 people he could took, which was already heavy and big for that little boat. And then he depart. And then we were shouting to these remaining people. Saying, hey, we got someone, we come back for help, we send help, just hang on, you know, exactly like movies. And then we were hoping that, we were hoping to quickly get to the shore, send help, you know, that's very logical. And then I could see these guys riding this boat and then trying to call, no signal. And then we went after maybe an hour or so, something like that. We could see the land, I could see the mountains, I could see things. And then he start talking because the signal was back somehow. So I could see clearly he's communicating with someone, say something happening here. And then he was speaking Bahasa Indonesia, which back then I couldn't really understand at all. And we were kind of make sure that He's telling people what's happening. So by the time we, we got to the shore, we saw hundreds of people already there. Police was there, local people, they were there, nurse was there, lot of people. So it suddenly become a big thing and then they put us in a room in that shore. It was like a little village with a little fishing port where it was very nice place. Later on when I look at it, it was really cool place, but back then it was like chaotic. A lot of people and police and they put us in a room there and then people who could speak English went and explained what's happened. And then we believed, okay, we explained, they sent help, right? And we were expecting the rescue because in that boat We were like 60, 70 people hanging on that boat, or we maybe 80, I don't know, something like that. But only 34 came back with this fisherman. And then we were thinking, so they have to send help for the rest of people who were at least hanging on that boat. And some of people who were rescued with us, they had family members left there, so they were like, And we're like so angry and so frustrated and, you know, shouting for help and everything. It was a very bad situation. One day is gone, that night pass. In the morning, we still have no news. Nobody tell us what happened to those people. They just said, we can't find them. There's no people. What? Second day there.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 51:30
Pass.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 51:30
No people. And again, I don't want to go to all the details. You know, they send nurse, they send immigration, political officials came. You know, it was, it was mad. A lot of news agencies came because big news. A lot of news agencies came and talked to people who could speak English to get the news out. Third days came. No rescue, no one. And we were going mad. They took us from that room. They sent us to a motel under immigration because it was a lot of people died and it was a big news. So they wanted to ask us who's this people smuggler and, you know, they needed information to send us to other location under immigration. I guess it was Third, end of third day or fourth day, they came back to us and say, hey, we could find only 13 people after roughly 4 days. So overall, only 47 survived from roughly 250 people. And those 13 were hanging on that boat for 3 days and 3 nights. So They sent them to hospital because they were in a very bad condition. And then from then they sent us to detention and it was like a jail. And another story starts from there. I found myself, you know, no clothes, no ID, no money, lost in a detention center, sitting in a cell, locked for for 2 months. And it was, it was like a room with 16 people in it. Toilet was on a corner. They wouldn't even open the door for us to go to yard because they said that's a law here or rules here, whatever. And, uh, that's, again, these are all different chapters I'm going into, different phase of my story, but yeah, I found myself, it was already 5, 6 months in Indonesia, 4 or 5 attempts, lost my money, lost the friend. I couldn't see my friend anymore. He, he's gone and sitting in a detention center, locked in a room, had no idea what the heck I'm doing here. So From that normal life that I explained, in few months found myself in a foreign country in a crazy detention, sitting in a cell or a big room with asylum seekers, whatever you wanna call it, in a very pretty bad shape.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 54:25
And it's awful because it's after such a traumatic event. Going to another traumatic situation where you are locked up is probably the worst thing that can happen to you in the moment.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 54:37
Exactly. And we were thinking like, hey, you just rescue us from the ocean. We watch people die in front of us, and now you put us in detention in a cell. You don't even let us to come to the yard to have fresh air. What's going on? Yeah, it was, it was pretty bad mentally because we weren't thinking about food or this and that, or we don't have proper clothes or, but it was just a lot on mentally that you had to deal with. And you had people lost their family members in cell next to you trying to kill themselves and you have to hold on to them. You have to help them, you have to rescue them because You could wake up in the morning and they were gone. It was a mental game, definitely.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 55:31
Yeah. Mental game is, is a good way to say it.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 55:34
Yeah.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 55:36
Yeah. And how did you process that? Like, can you actually process something like this? You know, come to terms with it. It's so—
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 55:43
I, I still have no answer to some of those questions. Some people give up. Mentally, even your body give up. And I had those moments that my body literally gave up and I couldn't feel anything. I just could hear and I could see, but my body wouldn't move because I was freezed. It was too heavy. But you know, I, I had a bit of learning from my life in Iran, I guess, and I had a bit of in me that didn't wanna really give up and I had to deal with the situation as is.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 56:22
So what made you keep hope in this situation?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 56:27
I guess different reason, like the reason that you don't wanna go back, you have no way to go back, so there's no option. You have to just to go forward. You have to find a way, you have to create a way, whatever it is. It's not that you are smart or you are different with people. It's just there's no options. You have to go forward. And so along the way, I learned to be patient, to be resilient, to be creative the way I escape or, you know, solve problem or whatever it is. But definitely didn't want to go back and didn't want that danger. Plus I felt like I'm through all these difficulties. Why should I give up when I, when I already been through a lot now? So let's fight the fight.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 57:21
And how did you manage to come to Australia?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 57:27
I know it is funny, but I had another escape from that detention with other 4 refugees. Or asylum seekers there. It took us 3 months. We came back to Jakarta and because of what happened to me, I totally closed the door in my head to try the boat again. Like it was very clear for me, I don't wanna try that again. I don't have the money, I don't want to try it again. I don't want to go through that again. So it was very clear. And the only option I had, and I learned during that few months, that was okay, UNHCR would be a hope. It took a long time. There's no guarantee, but something to try. And again, I have no money. I have no friends now. I have no connection there. And you can't work in Indonesia. There are countries that asylum seekers still work a bit, but Indonesia, no chance. Are a lot of people, there's poverty, there's no chance. Again, I didn't know languages well, no English, nothing. So I didn't have any hope, but the only hope was, okay, UNHCR, people said go and register. So I went there and registered. And as I'm telling you the story, I, on the phone, I told them the story. I said, hey, this is what happened to me. And I actually escaped from detention because I couldn't survive there. I couldn't mentally handle it anymore. And I'm in Jakarta. They told me to come and register. I have no idea what's going on. I just know I have to register with UNHCR. I said, okay, this is your paper. We call you.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 59:09
Okay.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 59:10
Took 18 months for that call.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 59:14
18 months.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 59:15
18 months. Even more.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 59:16
How did you survive in the meanwhile?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 59:19
Again, another chapter. Now, now in Jakarta, I start to meeting people, telling my story. There are some Iranians I found, they introduced me to a church. That church help a bit. They were helping asylum seekers and I had no choice and they start helping me and I found some Iranians plus in that church as well and I I could get a room in a shared accommodation. And then from there, I just kind of, in a very minimum money, I could survive and just live until see what happened. Long story short, again, from registration with UN, by the time I got my visa, took me 3 years until I got my PR and I was ready to come to Australia. And in that 3 years, I picked up Bahasa Indonesia a bit. I could speak for my daily stuff. I learned a bit of English hanging with foreigners there, or even Indonesian. I had tough times, a lot of tough times there with no work, no study, minimum money. I would volunteer for some organization in the end. I was doing that a bit. But, and then I look back now, I had one of the best parts of my life there. That's why Jakarta is like home.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:00:46
Why do you say that it was one of the best parts of your life? I'm, I'm curious. Oh, well, and at the same time I'm surprised, right?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:00:54
Yeah. I'm surprised myself when I miss Jakarta or Indonesia, especially Jakarta. I feel like, oh, you had the toughest time in your life in Jakarta, yet you keep missing it. Mm-hmm. The people, the culture, the food, the everything. I guess it was a tough journey and tough beginning, especially the first 6, 7 months, 8 months. The sinking, detention, dealing with people, smugglers from this unit to that unit, from this town to that town was really tough. But when I gave up that and started registering with UNICEF and find that little community there and start actually kind of living there, although it wasn't a good condition, but I was living there. I had good time. I had good friends. Again, it was tough. You know, sometimes I would walk. I didn't even have money to pay the bus or whatever it was, or taxi, or whatever. So I would walk or it was like living on a really minimum in already poor country. It was tough. It was, it wasn't something that I grew up in. The culture was so different. It was traffic. It was, you know, poor areas in Jakarta. Although I love it, it's so bad condition and I wasn't used to it. But somehow I love it because the experience I gathered The things I learned and the people I met, these things are invaluable. It, and sometimes it never come back again. That was it. That was it. And although I met a lot of good people here as well, different story, but you, there are some certain situation that help you to understand and grasp of what real friendship, real caring, real support means. In a normal situation, maybe you can't really understand that, but when you are in a tough situation, you need help, support, and you see a stranger coming to help you, you can't You can't put a name on it. You can't put a dollar value on it, you know? So I had a lot of those people and I had a lot of those moments in that 3 years in Chicago.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:03:27
If you were trying to express what the learning is, what that period of your life taught you, what would you say?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:03:39
It's hard to put it in one word, but Those kind of situation activate some of the ability I never knew I had, right? So that was internally. So something I figured out about myself and I used it along the way. When I arrived in Australia, I didn't know I had that back in Iran, but in those situation I could say Oh, I can do more. I have more capability than I would think. I can handle more than I would think I would handle or I can handle. So does part of this kind of ability or internal knowledge, experience, like life experience, you know, I've been in Indonesia in a very tough situation, survived 3 years. As a foreigner, as an asylum seeker, whatever you wanna call it, let's say refugee. There's a lot of things come with it. There's maturity come with it. There is worldview come with it. Like the way I look at things are different compared to my worldview when I was in Iraq.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:05:00
Tell me about the change.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:05:03
It's really deep and sometimes you think no university, no people, no teacher can teach you those things except those situations and surviving those situations and going along with it and it transforms you and this transformation is not physical, of course, it's mental. It's in, it's something in you changes the way you think of life. You're a survivor. You were about to be dead and you have a chance to live. This is different. I don't say I don't complain anymore, but I rarely complain.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:05:53
You know, because you put things in perspective.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:05:55
Exactly. And I know, I mean, now I'm working full-time. I have a lot of things. I have my car, I have nice place to live. I have a lot of friends. I have, I'm in Australia and I can drive half an hour into Bondi Beach. I can drive 1 hour to Blue Mountain, 1 hour to Palm Beach. Best place in the world. But I understand it's not about where you are, what you have. It's about your internal feeling and how you look at things. Because I can compare it to where I was in Jakarta with minimum. I had happy time there without having anything, and I had tough time here. With having everything.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:06:46
Tell me about the times in Australia where it felt like you had everything and yet there was an emptiness inside of you.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:06:56
Yeah. Um, questions of, is it really what you want? Is it where you want to be? Uh, does it worth it? Uh, is it that? All this question we ask ourselves. And I have a point of reference to go back now. That's the change, you know, I have a point of reference that, oh, I was in Jakarta in that time. I didn't have even maybe $5 in my pocket, but I was the happiest person in the world.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:07:28
And how do you explain that? How do you explain that you were somehow sometimes less happy in Australia with all the, you know, the beautiful context and yeah. How do you explain this?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:07:42
Well, that's where I tease a lot of my friends that, you know, you guys have luxury problems and you guys have first world problems. These are not even problems.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:07:52
Yeah. So you could relate to the people over there because they were going through the same stuff.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:07:56
And here, because I can see from different dimension, a lot of people like me, that went through such journey can't. It's like you go through these games and each level you pass, something opens for you. You get extra ability, right? It was like that. It releases some different dimension that I can see now. And it's not magic or anything, it's just perspective.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:08:28
And so you find it hard to relate to people here sometimes?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:08:32
It was harder earlier, but now I understand if you don't see anything, of course it's hard. You know, for things that I see people complain and you see sometimes these stand-up comedian make joke of, you know, Western's problem. I laugh at it. I understand it. Now I better understand because I've been living here for over 10 years, so I can relate and I can relate if you haven't seen anything else. This is hard, but sometimes it's just, I laugh at it and I tell my friend like, hey, you complain, your first world problems. And when I say that, they laugh because they know my story and suddenly that helped them to kind of change a bit, hopefully. Yeah, life is going on. Definitely. There's toughness. I mean, I had toughness in my assignment time in university. Tough.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:09:25
I am. Oh, what was hard about it?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:09:29
It was, it was hard, but again, different tough, you know, it, now I can laugh at it. Like, you know, language barrier, you don't know how to do assignment, different system. I was away from study for a long time, different system in Iran. Here it's all new and you're competing with people coming out of high school. They know everything and they English and the system, how to write essay and this and that. You know, it was so difficult to write essay or second language and come up with the topic and research and everything. Oh, you know, all of this, those, I been through those tough times or when your manager, I was a barista. I work in a cafe a lot of times or a runner and it, you know, It's a tough environment. You can turn off and you do a mistake. Your boss says, sorry, you don't come back tomorrow. I had those times and stuff, but it can't get into me again anymore. That's another difference. It can't get under my skin because I had that. That's what I'm saying. It, you look at different dimension and It doesn't mean things not getting hard for me. It means I better can handle them and look at them now. And these are the ability I collect along the way through those tough times in Jakarta, in Indonesia. Plus a lot of other things, you know, I met great people, I met great friends there. I met a stranger that become the best friend of my life now. And yeah, I have a deep connection with Indonesia.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:11:17
Definitely. And when you look at your life here in Australia and what helped you integrate and build your career, what do you think is the thing that has been the most useful? Do you think it's, I don't know, the fact that you really focused on things that were under your control, what is the thing that helped you the most?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:11:41
I, I actually have a problem with focus, the, the word focus. I'm a bit of ADHD, I guess. So it's not my friend, but there is something that you don't wanna give up. And I found that a lot of refugees have that. You don't wanna give up. It's, it's not in me. Although it's not 100% healthy all the time, but when it comes to settling in a new country, it's great. So I stopped complaining because I had that life experience in Jakarta. Try to find ways again, because I thought if in Jakarta with all those conditions, I could find a solution or solution present itself front of me. You're gonna do it again. So it's all perspective, not giving up, because I pay the price. I pay the heavy price to be here, to have my freedom. So I have to use it. No complain, you know, you just got a chance, make the best out of it. So I did my best. I mean, I could maybe do better. I don't know. I just started English in a study, put the hard work in. It's hard work in Australia or in any new country. And accepted that, you know, it's all mental game. It's nothing out there. It's all in here. It's all in you. And if you lose that, you lose everything. But if you win that conversation, you have answer for your complain, your thought, your negativity. You can handle it. And I guess that's my strength. I don't give up internally. Things get tough outside. Sometimes I wanna pack and go for a week, definitely. But internally, I never. So I always push myself to do the hard work, find the solution. And sometimes that's another thing I learned. Sometimes you don't need to know a lot. And I, I learned that not because I was smart or anything, it was just I had no other option. I just had another step. I couldn't see anything else. It was just the next step and I took it and it worked out. So I learned sometimes you just have to think what's the best next step and you just take it.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:14:12
You said a couple of times, you know, not to complain was a very important part of this journey. But I wonder whether you've let yourself sometimes feel the things that this journey has made you experience. Have you been giving yourself permission to feel?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:14:29
I understand where you're coming from and it can be a trap, go the other way, like, you know, be too tough to yourself. And I've been there as well, you know, been too tough and it takes a bit of time to get that balance. Yes, definitely. But when I say complain, I share my feeling. I have mentor, I have close friend, I talk to them. But when I say complain, I'm talking about those type of complain that doesn't let you grow during the journey. These complaints become excuses to not doing the next thing or doing the right thing. Or those type of complain. The other thing I've learned was there is no excuse, you know, you hear all of these things in Instagram or in YouTube or from the speakers, great speakers, you know, all over the social media. I've lived it and I've seen people, you know, I had no money to go to school in Jakarta. So I could make friends and just go to meet these Americans or Indonesians who speak English and just mingle with them. Was going out and learning on the street. And I was getting a book from a friend and I started reading. I still have that book. I started reading it and each word I would translate it and put the meaning on the top of it. I still have those notes. So I learned that way. So I've learned there's no excuse if you wanna do something. It can make you a bit tough to yourself, but that's the learning I've came through and I've learned how to deal with my challenging life. And the other complaint is the general complaint, complain about God, why me, you know, all these things, which I have a lot of reason to to do that. Why I was born in Iran? Why me? Why I was in that protest? Why this and why that? Why my boat sank? Like 100 boats came, arrived. Why mine? You know, all of these can become a big complaint and big why question, and those are just stopping you. And I don't want that. I have learned early on not to let them. The solution was the next step. Just do that and go forward.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:16:55
I think it's really good advice because it's super tempting to go there, you know, in the whiny and to focus on that, you know, and it's not helpful.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:17:04
It is not. It is not. You, I don't wanna ruin my life and my, ruin my opportunity by sitting around and complaining.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:17:14
Uh, if you had a final advice for refugees and migrants who are restarting their life from scratch, what would you say? They should absolutely do?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:17:27
That's, I have a lot, so that's hard to put it in one. Um, I guess as I was sharing my story, I mentioned a few of them, you know, that eagerness, never let that die. The other thing I've seen a lot among refugees, because I mentor a few and I'm advocating for refugees, some lot of connection. I see those complain coming up. I guess it start within, started with your acceptance, mate. You know, you are here for a reason. I don't know if you chose it or didn't. You got the opportunity to be in a safe place rather than complaining about the system and everything. I know nothing perfect, but you got the chance, so look on the positive side. Do your homework, do your hard work, and just go forward rather than sitting around and pointing on what's issue in this society and this system.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:18:24
At the same time, if I'm trying to be the devil's advocate, when you negate the fact that the system can be unfair, a lot of people can feel that their lack of success may stem from not being good enough, when in fact it's just that they weren't given the same head start.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:18:43
Yeah, I agree. But what I can control, yeah, the system, um, my choice, my abilities, my decision-making. Of course it's not perfect and I don't wanna go on about it. I mean, Australia being criticized a lot and Refugee advocate and do that as well to companies, corporations, system, and advocate for refugee and for more diversity and inclusion. But on the same side or same token, we have to give credit for what good's been happening. Australia take a lot of refugees every year. Australia provide free education, HECS, access to different services, whether it's settlement services, whether it's caseworker, whether it's if you want to study, and I had those. So yeah, of course I can sit and complain. What I do is I did my best to grow in this society, find a firm spot, you know, settle in this country, and then start doing something for what I think is wrong, rather than sitting from the beginning and point out of what are wrong here. So I guess I have to focus on what I can do. That's the other thing I've learned along the way, that there are a lot of things that I can't control outside of me, and system, especially in the beginning, one of them. What I can do is see what is available to me, what I'm passionate about, acknowledging the opportunity that's given to me, the freedom, being here and everything. What I have access to, these are what I can control, and I start doing the steps toward them. And, you know, I did that. I came here. It's okay, you want to go abroad, but you have 800 hours free English study. I said, oh, hell, I didn't have that in Jakarta. I go use it. And I did use it to the best of my ability to what I put myself into it to learn. I mean, my English not that perfect, but you know, I learned. And that would be foundation of my next step, which was university, and then next work, you know. So these are what I came for, true. What I choose, what I go, what is available to me. And later on when I'm stronger, now I can go advocate for refugees. Yeah, maybe I can make a bit of change, hopefully.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:21:18
Do you have a book or a movie that inspired you and that you would like to recommend?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:21:25
Um, the book I mentioned to you that was, I was reading, the learning English through it and translating word by word in Farsi was very accidentally the book called Talent Is Never Enough. So that book was, I guess I have an attachment to it because it has a lot of memory for me. But the other thing is I love Jim Rohn. Mm. So, you know, people go running and listen to music. When I go running, I'll listen to Jim Rohn. And I did that in Jakarta a lot and it kept me inspired and kept me going. So definitely Jim Rohn is my number one.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:22:11
I love that. And is there someone that you'd love to hear on this kind of platform?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:22:23
Hmm. I forgot his full name. There was an Iraqi refugee, really famous guy, and he's an asset to Australian community. Came here, he's a surgeon, a doctor. He's great. And he's escaped from Saddam Hussein in Iraq. And he came here as a refugee and he's, um, He's a big guy now. Uh, I can pass his name to you later if you can find him and invite him. He has a great story, how he escaped, why he escaped, and how he landed to Australia and all the great things he had done as a refugee. Because you know, I, I love refugee stories and successful stories of refugee. Hmm.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:23:06
Yeah, let's definitely chat. About him. So I have two final sets of questions. When I say the word refugee, what are the words that come to mind for you?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:23:17
Definitely first word is resilience, resilient, exile, eagerness, interesting stories, if I can say two words.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:23:36
Freedom. Freedom. Hmm. Yes.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:23:39
I can go on and on, but yes, that will be enough.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:23:44
And where is home to you? Is it a place, a feeling, or something else entirely?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:23:51
For migrants and refugees, I mean, I put these two in one category now to answer this question. Whoever left his home country, That's a tough question. One word, Sydney is home. Definitely Sydney is home. You know, I can walk to the streets, go to other neighborhood and just feel home. I haven't been back to Iran for 15, 16 years now, so that's definitely home. No doubt. It's different home. You know, it's where I was born, where I grow up, and where my all relatives and friends are. That's definitely in me. I'm from there. Whenever I go out of Australia, 1 week, 8 days, 9 days, and get a bit longer, I feel really, I want to go back home. And that home is Sydney. And when I'm here doing daily life and everything, I miss Jakarta because Jakarta hold a special place. I can call it another home or I can call it a special place for me. So these three driving me crazy.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:25:12
Yeah. Never feeling completely home in one place.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:25:16
That's the challenge for migrants and refugees. It's hard.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:25:21
Do you feel Australian?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:25:25
Depends what you call it, how you explain Australian. Yeah, definitely I'm part of this community and I'm proud to be called Australian if they may, or anyone call me Australian. I have the passport, I'm living here, I'm contributing as much as I can. I'm doing that. To the best of my ability, I hope. So I'm trying not to be burdened on the society. But yeah, you know, I guess again, I know countries, systems have their issues and they're not complete or perfect, but I guess Australia has a lot of great things. I have to say that. I mean, I have to give that credit. Yeah, there is issues, there is Manus, and there is the tensions. There've been bad stories, no, no doubt about it. But there are a lot of good things as well. When I think about Indigenous people and I say I'm Australian, I feel a bit, you know, yeah, if they let me to be Australian, I'm proud to be one. And, uh, I guess Australian, like one thing I came here, I really shocked me was the sport, the amount of people doing sport, running and doing this and doing that. It's amazing. So Australia is not just a country, it's a lifestyle.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:26:57
Yeah, I like that. It's so true what you say. It's very Australian because personally, same in France. Was not a sportive person at all. And here you arrive and that becomes the way to connecting with others.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:27:13
Definitely Vegemite, coffee, and sport.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:27:15
Vegemite. Vegemite.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:27:19
I stopped drinking alcohol, but if not, there would be beer as well. But definitely, uh, Australia is a way of thinking. Australia is a lifestyle. Hmm.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:27:31
Is there one more thing that you would like to say before we finish this interview?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:27:36
Share stories. I don't know if you're migrant refugees, who cares? If not, who cares? You're a human. Share your story, story, story. Stories are powerful and it keep people close to each other and make people understand better.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:27:55
Well, it certainly is the case with your story. I feel that Um, it's funny because the first time we met, I voluntarily didn't go into your story because I wanted to, to hear it from you during this interview. And it really drew me in, you know, and wow, it's just incredible. Everything that you went through, you need to put it in a book or it needs to become a movie. Yeah, it's an amazing story.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:28:24
Thank you very much. And thanks for the time and the platform given to my story to be shared and to be heard. And hopefully that can help people. I don't know how, after, you know, years of storytelling, I've realized that's not me deciding what I do with my story. People take what they need. It's with everyone, you know, people get what they really need, that little hole that Maybe part of my story would respond to that.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:28:59
And so for people who wanna keep up to date with everything that you are doing, where can they follow you and contact you?
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:29:06
The main thing is LinkedIn. So LinkedIn, Yasser Nasseri, you will find me. I'm happy to respond to your question or if we can do something together, I'm up for it.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:29:20
Wow. Well, thank you so much for trusting me to share your story. I'm still processing it, you know? Yeah. There are so many chapters and layers to it. Yeah. I feel really privileged that you are sharing it with me and sharing it with my audience. And, um, yeah, thank you so much for doing this.
Yaser Naseri (Guest) · 1:29:44
Definitely. Thanks for the platform and your time, and hopefully people who listen to it, it's a bit painful, but hopefully it helps them in some shape or form.
Emma Bellamy-Dodd (Host) · 1:30:00
Thank you for listening to this episode, and thank you to Yaser for sharing his story so openly. If our conversation resonated with you in in some way, please share this episode with a friend, leave us a review, or add stars in the rating of the show. And don't forget to follow us. It really helps this community grow. In 2 weeks, I'll be interviewing Ochan Aba, who will share his experience and insights on loneliness, racism, and the struggle for identity as a migrant. So stay tuned. I was your host, Emma Bellamy, and I cannot wait to bring you on another journey from there to here.
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