Tynan Narywonczyk
After a fall left him told he'd never work, Tynan chose an Ironman or death, then rebuilt everything by speaking what he'd hidden.
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At nineteen, Tynan was a painting apprentice when he fell 3.5 stories down an empty stairwell, breaking the right side of his body and losing his memory in a coma. Doctors told him he had 57% permanent impairment and the IQ of a grade 4 child. His prospects, they said, were limited to jobs like cleaning or baggage handling. For years he accepted this narrative, sleeping 16 to 20 hours a day as his brain tried to repair itself, absorbing the medical world's low expectations as truth.
Then he saw John McClane finish the 1995 Hawaii Ironman in a wheelchair and heard words that changed everything: it's not about what happens to us, it's about what we do with what's happened. Tynan decided an Ironman was his choice. Not recovery, but transformation. He had to relearn how to run, how to ride a bike, how to process speed when his brain couldn't make sense of the blur in front of him. Five years after the accident, he finished his first triathlon at Port Macquarie in 12 hours and 22 minutes. Walking across that finish line, he knew he would go to university.
For fifteen years he carried his suicide attempt in silence, building a public life of achievement while hiding the fracture underneath. Only when he spoke about it at Roses in the Ocean did he understand the weight he'd been holding alone. That conversation opened a door. Now he works in men's mental health and lives by a simple belief: sharing people's stories, not top-down decisions, shifts what's possible. His haunted past drives him not into hiding but into purpose. He is a father to Luca, and he moves through his work with the knowledge that one person's willingness to speak their truth might be the thing that helps someone else choose to see one more sunrise.
“It's not about recovering. It's about transforming. Transformation is taking that old nature or the old whatever, putting it to rest and renewing your mind.”
“I was given a certificate that said I had 57% permanent impairment that would never be repaired from, and that I had the IQ of, yeah, like a grade 4 child.”
“life happens and it's not about what happens to us. It's about what we do with what's happened.”
The hero, today
Tynan's haunted past is not a source of shame but a source of drive, and he has learned to channel it toward purpose rather than hiding in the shadows. The medical model's predictions about his future, that he would have an IQ of a grade 4 child and could only be a cleaner, fell away once he proved through his own actions that those opinions did not have to define him. Watching John McClane finish the Hawaii Ironman gave Tynan a single clear goal that felt like the difference between life and death, and completing that first triathlon five years after his accident proved to himself that transformation was possible. Tynan carried his suicide attempt and his lived experience in silence for 15 years until he shared it with Roses in the Ocean, and discovering the power of his own story to help others changed the trajectory of his entire life. Exercise became an addiction that kept Tynan alive, but only when paired with connection to people he loved and faith in something larger than himself.
Yes. Tynan Narywonczyk is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Tynan's haunted past is not a source of shame but a source of drive, and he has learned to channel it toward purpose rather than hiding in the shadows.
The medical model's predictions about his future, that he would have an IQ of a grade 4 child and could only be a cleaner, fell away once he proved through his own actions that those opinions did not have to define him.
Watching John McClane finish the Hawaii Ironman gave Tynan a single clear goal that felt like the difference between life and death, and completing that first triathlon five years after his accident proved to himself that transformation was possible.
John Milham (Host) · 00:00
Kintsugi Heroes acknowledges funding that was made possible with support from the Community Broadcasting Foundation. Find out more at cbf.org.au.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 00:17
Welcome back to Kintsugi Heroes, helping people tell the stories they need to share so you can find the stories that you need to hear.
John Milham (Host) · 00:32
In this episode, John Milham is joined by Tynan Naravoncek. After suffering a life-altering accident as a young painting apprentice, he became a driving force in men's mental health advocacy. Tynan's story is both inspiring and profound. Faced with immense physical and emotional challenges, he transformed his adversity into a purpose-driven life. Tynan now shares how he overcame his haunted past, set bold new goals like completing an Ironman, and uses lived experiences to help others navigate their own struggles.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 01:07
Enjoy this one with Tynan Naravoncek. Ladies and gentlemen and listeners of Kintsugi Heroes, wow, it's fantastic, uh, today because, um, to be honest, I get to, uh, introduce you and to talk to a man who is an inspiration for me, right? And a fellow traveler in the world of serving and supporting people with challenges and distress in their lives. And not just a fellow traveler, but a man who is setting the agenda in the industry, particularly for men's mental health. Tynan. Now, Tynan, please pronounce your last name for me.
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Tynan carried his suicide attempt and his lived experience in silence for 15 years until he shared it with Roses in the Ocean, and discovering the power of his own story to help others changed the trajectory of his entire life.
This conversation includes welcome to kintsugi heroes, a fellow traveler in men's mental health, haunted by the past, driven by purpose, a 3.5-storey fall at nineteen, transformation, not recovery and the medical model and its limits.
John Milham (Host) · 01:52
I'd like to hear you try and have a go. We've been mates for a long time now and I've never heard you try it.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 01:57
Yeah, that is absolutely true. Right. So, though I would pronounce it Narywonskik. Narywonsik.
John Milham (Host) · 02:09
That's close. Narawoncek is the Polish way.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 02:12
Ah, right. Yeah. So the W is a B. Bon.
John Milham (Host) · 02:16
Narawoncek.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 02:18
I apologize for that, mate, because I seriously have called you Tyne and Ian in my mind forever. So for many years. But thank you, mate. Thank you for coming on and talking to us at Consig Heroes and sharing your story. This is the Stories That Matter series, and your story matters, mate. You are a a member of the health sector in Queensland. You set the agenda at the primary health network level. So you're working with community health and you're also a member of organisations that are setting the agenda in supporting people in the community and driving lived experience as a part of that. So organisations such as Roses in the Ocean, and the Men's Mental Health Forum, etc. And in that, you've designed some of the key community health solutions in recent years. So it's a big job, mate. How on earth— and I think you have a master's in public health or social health?
John Milham (Host) · 03:37
Master's in social work.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 03:39
Yeah. So how on earth did you decide that being of service to people's well-being was where you wanted to be?
John Milham (Host) · 03:51
It's a really interesting question. I look at it as, I've reflected on this recently, like I feel like I live my life haunted, haunted from the past, but not haunted in the sense of like a scary movie. Like, sure, there's scary aspects to it, but haunted from the sense of knowing where I've been and where I can go. Haunted in the sense of knowing that I'm human and so are all the other people that we connect with. And somewhere along the line, the dots of life and through various courses have led me through a conundrum of life events, some that nearly killed me, some orchestrated by myself, some that have had me in the room with people who have also nearly died, orchestrated by themselves, and supporting people. And I think somewhere along the line that when you're haunted by those things, you generate some two options. One is a purpose to go after it, or two, there's a purpose where you want to hide from it and live your life. In the shadows. And to be honest, both of them are fine, completely fine. I don't, I don't think anything less of people who do want to hide from the, the haunted past that they have. And you and I have both met many, many people who have some really horrific things that have happened to them. And to be honest, Dylan, if, unless I was in their shoes, I can't say how I would do it. But the things that I'm haunted by they drive me to, well, they drive me to too many things sometimes to, like you, put myself second and put the purpose that I have ahead of my own well-being.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 05:41
You mentioned purpose, mate, and I would, I would definitely describe you as somebody driven by purpose. Um, what, what do you see as purpose? How do you define it?
John Milham (Host) · 05:51
That's a really interesting question. I think purpose often is defined by actions and what people achieve. I look at purpose as the fiber of who I am. And I think if I was to be stretched apart, like 1600 style, that in my fibers, there would be things there that would be like 'Suck you suicide.' There would be things like, 'Stigma sucks.' Like, that's what I feel is in there. And I've seen the role that they, they all play. So I look at my purpose. What I think of it is like, I think I have many purposes, but in the context of this conversation, I think my purpose is to help people who have also got a haunted past or a haunted present and do what I can to either sit with them in that haunted moment Or do what I can to help them to get to a place where the haunting is still part of them, but they've got their own purpose, their own drive to be able to step into whatever's next. And sometimes that stepping into whatever's next is also haunted. I mean, it's the unknown that often drives people to the scariest moments of our lives.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 07:08
Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting. You've, you've mentioned, you know, you've talked about the haunted past and I, You know, I hear that in, you know, if it's okay, right, I'm taking you back here like your childhood in Queensland and all of that stuff. But, you know, in many ways, uh, your circumstance was set by, you know, being an apprentice and having an accident at work that really redefined your life, didn't it?
John Milham (Host) · 07:37
Yeah, definitely. And I look at that as the biggest blessing in my life. And to put the context of it for people who, well, people who obviously don't know, when I was 19, I was a painting apprentice. I fell 3.5 stories, so 5.5 meters down an empty stairwell, landing on concrete at the bottom and broke the right side of my body. Was in a coma, multiple things going on with me. Basically told that, my family were told I wasn't going to live. Anyway, a few days after being in a coma, I did come out of it and had lost my memory. So I don't remember life before the accident. And that started a long journey towards what was framed at the time as recovery. And I'm not a fan of the word recovery. And John, we've had conversations around that. I think recovery, it sets you up to have a false narrative that things are going to return to how they were before. Life had happened. And for me, that wasn't ever going to happen. Like, there was no way of recovering back to the past that I had no memory of, and a past that was very different. Because I mean, well, at that point I was deemed to be heading to a life of— by the time I was my age now, I'd be in a retirement village or living with my mum because I couldn't take care of myself. And So when you, when you're sitting there told that you're going to recover and do your best to recover, it doesn't really lead you to a place where you actually want to do that.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 09:12
Yeah, I love that idea. I'm reminded of Yoda where he talks to Luke in, uh, in the jungle about try, you know, always with you it's try, don't try, there is no try, just do. And I think recovery sets a line that is satisfactory to other people, right? But it's not respecting the fact that, you know, you have everything possible. And then, you know, and recovery isn't about being short of what you might have once aspired to. It's about creating something new and being fully rounded and fully a full expression of what you can do, which they don't define. That's you to define.
John Milham (Host) · 10:00
100%. And I mean, it was only the last 12 months that through a network that we— a conversation we had, I don't remember which conversation it was, one of the men in the group pulled out the word transformation. And I went, that's 100% it. It's not about recovering. It's about transforming. And transformation is taking that old nature or the old whatever, putting it to rest and renewing your mind. Like, I love— it so relates to the Bible verse of— oh geez, I've just gone blank— Romans whatever, about renewing your mind. Like, that's, that's where I'm at. Like, I had the opportunity to transform, and I feel like transforming, it doesn't stop. Like, you look at lived, living experience of suicide or mental health or whatever people have, it's always transforming. It's always evolving. Like the world around us changes and you get different perspectives through different conversations. So yeah, to recover, no, I never recovered, but I transformed.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 11:02
I love that. Can I ask you some, you know, some questions about that experience? Like, so for instance, I wonder, you know, I was just having a conversation today about the how significant childhood trauma is and, you know, what happens to us in childhood. You often sort of set the agenda late in, later in life. It refuses to, to, to, to lie down and be ignored, eventually coming back in some way. What happens when you don't have your childhood back, right? You know, like, you know, is it— there are obviously other issues that you're like, you know, you, you then have to, you know, launch into managing your new reality, uh, you know, from the injury and the physical impact as well as that emotional trauma. But if there was anything bad in your childhood, this— do you feel like it's just been cleaned, or is it sort of— does stuff pop up that you don't really have an anchor for?
John Milham (Host) · 12:01
It doesn't. I I do have recollection, and more so from written notes, like through the work cover stuff around being introduced to people and like stuff like people felt familiar. Like I do believe that when I first woke up, like I didn't know who anyone was, like not even mum or parents, like friends. It's just, they felt familiar. And I think it's the familiarity that But I'm saying there's things in life that just feel more natural. I mean, my son has recently started playing basketball and I just started playing with him and all of a sudden I could like bounce the ball and my mom's like, oh, you played basketball when you were younger. And I'm like, all right. So that, and I literally put it down to initially before my mom said that, I thought, oh, I've watched a lot of basketball. And maybe like I'm quite coordinated, maybe it's just that, but maybe it's not like, maybe it is the body remembers that in there. And for me, the part of my brain that was damaged was, well, they said 15% of the, geez, I've just gone blank on which part it was, but it was the part that was the memory. And what they explained to me is that once you get a brain hemorrhage, The brain is like the most resilient system. It will just shut that down and it'll bypass into new parts in your brain. And that's what happened to me. Like it's just bypassed it. So somewhere in there, whether or not it's reactivated, I don't know, or it's just laying there dormant, they're all connected. So yeah.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 13:43
And that's the wonder of the brain, right? Which is, you know, gives you hope as well as um, you know, like when any, you know, even for any kind of challenges, mental distress and illness and stuff, that's why, you know, the possibilities are endless, right? Simply because we're an amazing self-managing, self-repairing machine. On that, the repairs you had to undergo for a young man, right, were significant, like your physical rehab would have been extensive. How did that play out? You know, like, obviously you had, uh, a response to that. Was that response all difficult? Was it all problematic?
John Milham (Host) · 14:31
It definitely was a benefit. I'll get to that. I mean, I think if I think about Haunted, like Like, that's definitely a haunted part. My recovery was, like, the medical approach was horrible. It was, for 3 years, or probably the first 2 years, it would have been pretty much every day I would be at a physio, an occupational therapist, a psychologist, a psychiatrist, a nerve study person, a general doctor, like, surgeons. And it was just on and on and on. And it really sucked. I mean, from a medical model or a medical perspective, I, at one point was given a certificate that said I had 57% permanent impairment that would never be repaired from, and that I had the IQ of, yeah, like a grade 4 child. And that, that's, that's like my future and not to discredit jobs, but like my prospects of a job were potentially you get to be like a cleaner. And I managed to get to a point where I said to them, oh, could I be a baggage handler for an airline? And they went, oh, probably the physical part of it you probably wouldn't be able to do. And over time of hearing that constant feedback from people that you respect and As a 19, 20, 20-year-old who has significant brain damage, like brain injury, and sleep 16 to up to 20 hours a day because my brain's trying to repair, and really not remembering much. Like I could watch the same movie every day for the same week and my brother would come home and I'd tell him about it and he'd be Great. Yeah, you told me about that yesterday. And the same thing that the one thing that did sit in was these feedback and these opinions that your life is going to be there and everyone around you is going to be up here. So don't strive for it.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 16:43
The medical model that you were mentioning, right? What, why did they feel it necessary to define your limits. What do you think that is? What, you know, we, we hear about the pathologizing of a lot of people going through stuff. Um, where does that come from, do you reckon?
John Milham (Host) · 17:06
Literature. Old, old books where they assess people based on certain things like bend this way, remember this. Move your head that way, lift up your leg. And over an 18-month period, 2-year period for me, like they said, all right, this is the best repairs you're going to get. That's where you're at. I mean, I think if you look at it from a legal perspective, like so many things are ruled on case studies and legislation that's been in place. I mean, look at the Family Law Act from 1975 or '76. Sure, it's had a few amendments, but the much of it is centered on 1975, and the world's a very different place to what it was then.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 17:55
Yeah, totally. How did you begin to dream?
John Milham (Host) · 18:02
I'd say one of the— I'd say the rock bottom moment of my life, and somehow surviving like an attempt to suicide and learning a valuable lesson straight after that, that it wasn't that I wanted to die. Like, sure, I didn't want to live, but I didn't really want to die. I just didn't want to live that future that was painted by all those medical people around me. That, that life of no independence, the life of Yeah, a life that I wouldn't wish upon anyone. And following that, I, it still was, I mean, I, I don't know if it was the next day or that day or that week, but I was sitting on the couch and turned on the TV and stumbled upon the 1995 Hawaii Ironman and John McClane, an Australian guy who some years before had been hit by a truck, I'm pretty sure he down your way actually, and was attempting to be the first wheelchair athlete to finish the Hawaii Ironman. And I still, like, his words, like every time I think about this or mention it, I just get this chill in me that his words were for me. Like he leant forward in his wheelchair when they were interviewing me and just said, oh, I've got a message for someone, maybe someone even out there in my own home country of Australia, that life happens and it's not about what happens to us. It's about what we do with what's happened. And those words just, I went, I'm going to do an Ironman. And, and I, because at the time I think we had Foxtel and I think things would play every day for like a month or whatever. So I watched it over and over again. And slowly inside, the more I watched it, the more I got hope. And if I do an Ironman, like if I can finish it, then it was almost like it'd be a big stuff you to the medical world and their opinions, but it would also be give me hope that I can have a life beyond wanting to end my life because of the pain and that by getting to the other side, I didn't know what would come, but I hoped that something good would come along it. Yeah. Wow.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 20:38
So you began to try it.
John Milham (Host) · 20:41
Well, essentially I had to walk first and yeah, cause I'd broken my hip. I Still remember the first run I did. There was this 2-kilometer circuit that I think took maybe 20 minutes, and my brother and my mate Simo ran circles around me, ran backwards in front of me. And it was— when I watched Forrest Gump, it literally was like that when he's running and those braces come off his legs. Like, I had to break up all this calcification that was all around my hip. And when I started, they're like, oh no, you won't be able to run. And I'm like, stuff you, I've got to run. And it was, for me, it was like I had to put everything in because if I didn't get to the Ironman, in my mind, I was going to die. Like, I, I was not—
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 21:36
this was a, this was existential driving you forward.
John Milham (Host) · 21:40
Yeah, it was do it or and my life. And so yeah, I got through this 2-kilometer run and just kept going and jumped on the bike that was there. And that was a weird thing because of my brain damage, like I couldn't process images and stuff. And I still remember I hit 10 kilometers an hour or something and I'd be on the brakes just going, it's so fast because it just turned into a blur. Because I couldn't process like what was in front of me.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 22:11
Wow.
John Milham (Host) · 22:11
And but over time I just kept going, kept going. And it's probably, I don't know, a few months after starting to move a bit more that I said to people, hey, I'm gonna do an Ironman. And people are like, you're crazy, there's no way you're doing that. But yeah, eventually I got in the pool and didn't drown and kept persevering and persevering and yeah, eventually finished first triathlon. Yeah, that was pretty special. Like it was just a small triathlon at Bribie Island, probably 2006, I'd say. And so yeah, maybe like 5 years after the accident and I finished and just went, yes, like And I think had I not finished an Ironman as soon as I had, I think I'd learn a lot in the training process, like self-confidence. I'd learned that sure, people can have opinions. And this is a lesson that I still need to learn all the time is that I, I don't want people to, and I shouldn't I don't like should or shoulding all over myself, but people's opinions don't have to define me, no matter whose opinions they are. And I still find when I get, you know, pit and have those pit moments in life, if I, by the time I get to it, it's damn it, it's just opinions again. And yeah, I smile and climb back out. Yeah.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 23:52
Tell us, so that first Ironman distance you've done, was it, uh, was it, was it, uh, you know, like, was it a triumph or was it a terror?
John Milham (Host) · 24:06
It was an absolute, like, dream. And the week before it, I absolutely rolled my ankle on a run that I shouldn't have done. And damn it, but I knew I would finish. And I, I haven't spoken about this for ages, but I can think of it now. So I was in Port Macquarie. I think it took me 12 hours and 22 minutes. It had turned dark. I remember coming in like the last, probably kilometer, and I was just I'm gonna do it. Like, I'm gonna. And I remember getting to the start of the carpet where it was like dark and it was light, and I just stepped in and it felt like I was stepping into a dream. Like, just because I'd thought about it so much and I thought what it would mean to me. Well, I knew what it would mean to me. And as I stepped across the finish line, like, my mum was there, my brother were there. I, I'm sure that we're all in tears. It just, I mean, to do it, to, to do it. Yeah, I, I don't think I'll ever truly be able to articulate what that has done for my life, but I, I know that somewhere in the weeks, a couple of weeks before the Ironman, I did decide that if I finish, or when I finished it, I'd then try and go and go to uni and study, which I did.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 25:43
It's just like, it's an amazing, you know, path to go from aspiring to be, or not, you know, or not can even considered good enough to be a baggage handler, to then decide, hey, I'm going to go on and do a, you know, degree, master's, and, you know, moving to, um essentially design work and strategic thinking and all that stuff, right? So was that, you know, did it become, was it momentum that took you? Is that what it is that takes you through this? Or is it just, do you learn something about how, you know, humans can move forward?
John Milham (Host) · 26:27
Momentum took me so far. But momentum can only take you as far as you're honest with yourself. And things happened pretty quick after I did that Ironman. I went to uni and I did more Ironman races and I won state titles in triathlon and like other events like around, around Queensland and I traveled overseas and raced and I started dating and I got through uni. It was great and I, I loved being able to succeed all these things, but in many aspects I was putting that up as a front to try and hide my lived experience because no one knew that this guy that was now on this quest to turn his body into like a weapon and my mind into something that I could learn. But no one knew that I'd wanted to kill myself or that I'd tried and that I'd tried to do it. Like, no one knew. And I was terrified. I honestly was. And I would always like have this thing that had replaced, like at one point it was suicide on my shoulder, but now it was this. What if they know? What if someone finds out? What are they going to think of me? And I honestly thought that people would think I was just a piece of crap. Like, that's, that's stigma and the myths and misconceptions that sit around suicide. And like, I had that all around me and I had it because like, I think during my time of transforming after the accident, like I did hear people around me quite often that you should be grateful because you, you are alive and all that stuff. And it's not helpful. But it wasn't until 2016, so 15 years after the accident, that I got introduced to Roses in the Ocean and met Bronnie and shared my story for the first time and went, wow, this can help people.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 28:51
Did it feel like freedom or was it like, you know, how, you know, how did it— was there weight lifted?
John Milham (Host) · 29:00
I thought I was going to die. No, I truly did. I stood up after 2 days of training and tried to speak and no words came out. I just had this thing on my chest. And after I finished, I just remember driving back to Cairns from Townsville going, what was like, what was that doing on my chest?
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 29:23
Yeah. Yeah. Wow.
John Milham (Host) · 29:24
And once, once I shared and once I got to hear other people share, And once I spoke to parents that have been bereaved by their kids dying from suicide, and they asked me questions about my own lived experience, and I was able to talk to them and give them answers from my perspective that in many aspects gave them some form of peace that it wasn't their fault. That they carried. Like, I still don't think of myself as anything special, and I have major imposter syndrome very often, but I don't— I also, I don't think I'm that special, but I also understand the power of story. I understand the power of being able to articulate my story at times. And use that to connect with people is a gift. And it's a gift that if I didn't use, I, yeah, I can't even imagine that reality. I can't. And since, since that day, it's driven me and I feel like there was life before the accident. There was life. Up to when I had my attempt. There was life doing Ironman and uni, and there was life after lived experience. And I feel like now, like, with the friendships and the connections I have with you and JB and Glenn and all the other amazing people that are around me, I feel like we're stepping into the next now, and I'm excited for, for what's ahead. I'm excited for the impact that we can have and the changes that are going to come. I, I'm happy to be part of it. I think it's more of a collective, like I don't think it's driven by one of us. I think it's us, us stubborn, stubborn blokes just going, you know what, we've had a haunted past. And that haunted past is going to drive us. And if you don't listen to us, we're going to haunt you and knock on your door.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 31:47
I love them. Oh, then, uh, that sounds like the, the, uh, the driven words of a bloke who's made it so far along on, uh, you know, on a 280-kilometer bike ride. So I'm not going to argue with you, mate. So, oh, that's Yeah, that's— I'd need to rest driving that far. So I did want to ask about it though, exercise for that period, right? It really was, you were driving out of the identity that had been created for you and you like— I loved how— I love the idea that you were pushing through something that didn't fit. And that the fact that didn't fit caused all sorts of challenge, including a sense of a loss of worth and a sense of not living your life and not feeling like that life was good enough. But it's interesting, when you found that physical expression, did that become an identity that you used to go forward and survive some of those dark days. And then is it enough? Like, do you then— is that a stepping stone to more? Is that something that we need to learn?
John Milham (Host) · 33:12
I've been privileged to have many conversations with many amazing people, some people who are experts in the world of addiction. And when I look at it from that perspective, I am 100% addicted to exercise and it at some points becomes, I'm definitely well aware, an unhealthy addiction. But on the other side, it's an addiction that I control. Like I control the level of pain that I can put myself through, but I can also push myself through some immense pain. And I don't really know where I'm going with this, but I think if I look at what keeps me alive, what keeps me being able to do what I do, there's 3 things. There's God, there's connection, and there's exercise. And within that connection, I'm 100% referring to being a dad and those close to me. But the exercise and the pain, it's hard to describe it. If I'm— I did an ultramarathon last year, 113 kilometers. 37 kilometers into it, I rolled my ankle. 86Ks left, I actually started smiling because I thought all right, something was going to hurt today. Now it's my ankle, so now I can just focus on my ankle and I don't have to worry about other pain coming. And it gave me comfort. Like, for the next 86 kilometers, I just cruised along, and it wasn't until I stopped that I realized that, okay, I'm not going to be able to wear a shoe for the next few days. But that has played out many, many, many times in my life. And if I find myself in an uncomfortable situation work-wise, that gives me peace to know that I can push through that stuff and I can then just take a breath and think, okay, this may be a little bit uncomfortable for now, but on the other side of it, there's something good. Like there's something that will come out of it that will have an impact or I'm going to get some growth out of it.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 35:42
Yeah, it's like, uh, I think it's Marcus Aurelius who says pain is inevitable, suffering is a choice. How do you, how did you choose to turn, you know, what most people would see as an absolute barrier? How did you choose to push through that, you know, accept the pain as an opportunity for growth?
John Milham (Host) · 36:07
Well, it was the ultimate high stakes. If, if I didn't get to that Ironman and I didn't start to do that stuff, I was tapping out. Like, I was out. And when that's on the cards, it— you just accept it. Well, I just accepted it. And I think like during my medical stuff after the accident, I was in so much pain, like for ages, like I had so many injuries that after about a year, I remember I said to the doctor, maybe even less, he's like, do you want pain stuff? I'm like, I don't need it. I don't feel the pain anymore. Is it going away? And he just said, no, no, your body's just adapted. It's just used to it.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 36:54
Wow. That's an interesting concept, isn't it, too? And something amazing to experience. In terms of, uh, you know, do you get— are you angry at how, you know, you were dealt with? Is that like— do you carry that? Is that, you know, like part of the legacy of your experience with the medical system and so on?
John Milham (Host) · 37:24
No, I'm not angry.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 37:26
I—
John Milham (Host) · 37:28
it's amazing insight to have. And if you look at the positions that I've found myself in the last 10 years and the insights that I've had from the previous 10 years before that, to be able to go into rooms and have that understanding of what it can be like for people who are dealing with a medical model that is looking at someone as a system, not a person. It's helpful to have that and to have conversations with people, or to get the phone call from a friend or a colleague and say, hey, I've got this person, can you talk to them? And I'll say yes every time. And to be able to hop on the phone and just hold space with someone. And we may not have the same lived experience, but we have some. I couldn't be angry at the medical model. Like it was there to not set me up. And to your point, if I, if I, if I push back on the discomfort and I just wanted to sit in the discomfort. Or ignore it and just— I mean, I don't know where I'd be today if I was here. I think I'd potentially be living with my mum or in a retirement village.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 38:54
That's, that's a weird thought, mate, to, you know, knowing how, um, how engaged and how energetic and capable you are. I'm glad it didn't happen. All right, um, the, um The challenges, right, when you talked about, um, you know, re-engaging with, uh, with future, you know, when you talk, talk about starting to dream again, right, and uni and dating, of course, you know, relationships. I'm interested, did, did you lose all your friends with when you lost your memory and then have to rebuild or, you know, create a new universe of friends and social networks?
John Milham (Host) · 39:35
I think it's, I think it's normal in life to, as you grow older, that your friendships get less, or your true friendships get less. I also look at those friendships in life that are kind of like, I don't know, like an ice cube that at some point you need to cool your drink down and they'll be there to help you. But the good friends are the ones that are always popping up the ice cube. So every time you turn it, they're still there. But yeah, there definitely were people that I did lose touch with. And I do remember being at some event, it was Anzac Day, and this girl came up to me and I was like, hey, I'm Tylan. And she slapped me and I'm like, what? And they're like, you dated her. I went, I tried to explain, but she didn't want to have a bar of it.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 40:30
Oh man, that's cool. So relationships, you talked about, uh, you mentioned your son, right? So how, how did you, you know, how did you go from that, you know, to the place where you were considered broken to having, you know, to connecting and sharing a life with son. And then of course, you know, relationships move on and, you know, dealing with all of that transition points.
John Milham (Host) · 41:00
I— yeah, you— over time you meet people, and I met my son's mother at a friend's party, and we got married. And I always knew that I wanted to be a dad. Like, I had two dogs Tamika and Jack, that a blue heeler that she lived for 16 years. Jack lived for 14 years, a red heeler. And I absolutely loved them. I walked them twice a day, every day. Like I would do 8 hours of exercise and I'd get off the bike and the next thing I would do would be take them for a walk straight away. Like I absolutely loved being them and I always knew that I would be a rad dad. Not a good dad, but a rad dad. Like, and yeah, was blessed to have Luca be born healthy and had 10 months of— 11 months of life with him and his mom. And then we separated and went down 4 and a half years of family court to stay in his life and battled some of the most horrific stuff being said about me that I could ever imagine and really went into my faith and went into the people around me and came out of it the other side with, without losing the relationship that I have with him and We have such a special bond and we talk about anything and everything. And yeah, he's, he's my favorite person in the world. I love being his dad. And yeah, we now, half his time with me, half his time with his mom. But I think the real thing that I do want to acknowledge is that his mom and I now, I think we get along better than when we were married. Like we can pick up the phone and always put him first. And yeah, if he wants anything, wants to talk to the other parent, there's no drama. Like, that happens. But yeah, it was tough, mate. I mean, yeah, we know. Yeah, absolutely.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 43:21
We know that, um, the whole process of separation from, you know, from partners and children is an incredible risk factor for men, um, losing their lives, taking suicide, or, you know, losing their, their, losing their lifestyle as well as their life, right? It's, you know, such a difficult period. You know, more than 50% of all broken relationships, uh, you know, can be at the core of men's suicide and so on. So, you know, it's interesting though that you talked about how you were framed during the process. And that's part of what happens in some of the, you know, these legal battles, which mirrors in many ways your experience, uh, you know, coming out of after the accident, right? You know, like being told who you are and what you are and not agreeing with it. So somewhat you were prepared almost, you know, you've had to have this experience over and over again. You know, is it possible that that was actually, you know, that building, you know, the gift is the lived experience that you now can apply in service to other, other men and other, other organizations?
John Milham (Host) · 44:35
100%. And I, I think about Steve Jobs' quote every week. You can't connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking back. And When, when I found myself in family court and once I'd got my head around understanding that people can say whatever they want to say and nothing's fact until you get to a trial. And if there's no evidence behind it, well, they can say whatever they want. And after 50-odd grand, I was given the tap by my lawyer to say, you don't need me. You can do this yourself. And I went, yeah, I can say, they can say whatever they want about me, but that doesn't have to be my opinion. And the more that I show who I am and in spite of what people say about me, the more that comes through. And by the time I finished that, I mean, I, that's probably one of my proudest moments, like to be able to go through that. Being labeled what I was labeled and to not even get in a space where suicide even got near my mind other than thinking about it, to say, well, no, I'm not going to do that, was, was the ultimate. You can have your opinion, but to be fair, I mean, if it was kind of like the doctors, it was just like you say this, I'm going to show you how wrong you are. And just stayed true and got all the way through. And yeah, it all just crumbled. Like, it just— but that, that's hard for so many men. Like, so many men. Not this year, maybe next year. I'd love to team up with, with yourself and a few other people and do something like just start a conversation and see where it goes. Again, build on lived experience, but to open the door of what the family court legal system believes based on very, very, very old ideologies around suicide and mental health. And challenge that narrative to a place where it brings them in line with not everyone who thinks about suicide has a mental illness, not everyone who has mental illness is going to be thinking about suicide. All those myths and misconceptions to give them a space where they can learn that, that to me is well worth tackling.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 47:21
It's really another form of, um, Hawaiian Ironman, really. You know, to get through and keep yourself well and strong and available as a father and a, as a man, that's a form of achieving an Ironman status, right?
John Milham (Host) · 47:41
So yeah, I like, through that whole process, I transformed, and that was when I started my master's in social work and got through it and managed to step more and more into this space of suicide prevention and become known for being able to speak in places and go into rooms with governments and commissions and be able to advocate and sit on governance panels and provide insights and provide perspectives that shift the dial on what they want to do, but articulate it in a way that is their language. Like, that's, yeah, that's special. Like, I've seen you do it, like, you can do it, and there's a few other people around that— that's, and that's another thing that I want to do is invest in more people over the next few years, build them up so they can go into those rooms and have those conversations.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 48:47
It's a beautiful vision, mate. Speaking of vision, right, uh, you mentioned your faith a number of times along the way as being an important part of who you became and who you are becoming. How does that work for you? Is it, you know, are you— is it important to be religious? It's important to have Uh, you're an active faith. How, how do you, how does it support you?
John Milham (Host) · 49:16
But faith for me is massive. I carry it with me everywhere. Like, there's not a situation I walk into where, well, there is, there's very often days where I do it by myself and I hear this little whisper in my head, you don't have to do it by yourself again. I'm like, that's right. But yeah, I think for people who don't believe in God or whatever, they have a belief in something. And we all have beliefs. We all have dreams. We all have hopes. At the heart of me is a belief that I can give a little bit of myself to people around me. And that's okay. And I can help them to walk and get up and take another step. And the days when I feel like I can't do that much or I need help, God's put people around me that I can pick up the phone and have a conversation with. And if it's the days when I'm stuck in the self-reliance thing where I think I can do it all myself, I thankfully have enough people around me that will pick up the phone and be like, Bro, come on, come on.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 50:32
The idea of helping others, right? Why do you think men should be more open to being helped?
John Milham (Host) · 50:45
I don't think that men are not open to the notion of being helped. In fact, I know they're not. And the reason I know it is because It would be hard to find a man that you would sit down with and have a conversation and say, hey, your mate Brad, or your mate Pete, or Barry, he's going through a tough time. Can you help him? 100%. They'll jump straight at it. So they know that helping a mate is important, and they know that helping a mate is beneficial, and they feel something from it as well. But men just want to step into that self-reliance. Like so many men, including me and you and many other people around us, we run workshops and we talk about this stuff all the time. That when life becomes a little bit tricky, we think, I don't want to bother anyone. I'll just try and do it myself. It hurts. It's hard. Like, it's hard for people to reach out. And I know like the statistics are showing that a lot of men now, like the statistics are showing that more men are reaching out and having conversations, but I don't think they will, they're not being heard or there's not the right thing there for them.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 52:05
What do you think we need to do as you move into that next life, right? You talked about the 4, you know, or 5. Periods of life for you. What do you, what do we need to do to make your vision real? What's—
John Milham (Host) · 52:23
This is something I think about quite often and I come to the conclusion that we need to have a collective approach towards it. It's not for me to say, it's for people like me to lead the conversation. It's for me, people like me to share other people's insights, other people's lived experience, and know that through sharing someone's story, that may only be one person, but for that one person, something they hear is going to be something that gives them hope to maybe just see one more sunrise. And that maybe during that other sunrise something else happens in their life and that person stays alive. I don't, I don't want to go back to the old ways of where to make decisions on what we do with men, a bunch of people in suits sit around a big board table and go, we need to do this. What I want to keep doing is Sharing people's stories, supporting people to step into the space of working with their lived experience and see what ripples come from it.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 53:47
What about, um, you know, you work in an area, you work, you have serious conversations and you offer, you know, uh, serious support and people tell you their serious stuff. Is there, is there fun for you? Like, what is joyful in your life? And what, you know, how important is that?
John Milham (Host) · 54:14
There's joy in my work. There's definitely joy. I mean, I, I get to work with people who have lived experience and people trust me and respect me with their stories. And there's a lot of pain that sits within those stories, but there's also a lot of humor. And if you can hold space respectfully with people that have lived experience, whether humor comes out or even a story that'll put me in tears, I still look at it and go, I've got this gift now that I can take your words, your lived experience, and I can apply it to something that will be a conversation or a change in the system that can help the people who come after you. And if you end up back in that spot, we'll be able to help you and support you in that journey. Like, that to me is I just still— like, I chat to colleagues all the time and I'm like, I get paid to do this?
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 55:24
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 55:25
I'd do this for free, and I'd do it for free, like, on the side.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 55:28
Yeah, yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 55:30
Is that— that brings me joy, just playing with, like, Luca, like, building Lego, playing basketball. That's amazing. Like, just watching him grow. Time in nature, music.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 55:48
Yeah, thank you for those moments, uh, that would— that were, you know, a beautiful expression of how hard it was. But also thank you for the incredible inspiration of what you went through and what you— what you believe is possible for the future. So good on you.
John Milham (Host) · 56:05
Thank you, mate. Thank you. It's been a pleasure to have a conversation with you. You're someone who I've got a lot of respect for someone who, your voice and your way of connecting with people, it's so impactful for so many people. I mean, you have your own lived experience and you have your own haunted moments of life, but you put all that away for the good of other people. And your focus and your attention to supporting men is phenomenal, buddy. Like, I'm so proud of you and the man that you are and the spaces that you step yourself into. It's, yeah, it's a pleasure to know you and thank you for the privilege to have this conversation.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 56:44
Well, mate, it's been my privilege. Wow, that's amazing. Hey, thank you, my friend. And I've got to tell you though, like, you know, full disclosure, I have no intention of ever running that far in my life. So that will have to be— That'll have to be, you know, an opportunity I don't pick up, right, from provision. But it's been a joy, my friend. Uh, thank you very much, and thanks for sharing it all on Kintsugi Heroes.
John Milham (Host) · 57:13
Talk soon. Thanks, mate.
Tynan Narywonczyk (Guest) · 57:20
Thank you for listening to this episode of Kintsugi Heroes. Thank you to Colin Lilly for permission to use Broken as our theme music for this series. If you enjoyed this conversation, share the podcast with a friend and let us know by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to support Kintsugi Heroes and the stories we share, head to kintsugiheroes.com.au and follow the instructions to make a tax-deductible donation. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.
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