Terry James (R)
A soldier who buried thirty years of war trauma rebuilt his life through steadiness, Army brothers, and the daily presence of his grandchildren.
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Terry James was 22 when he arrived in Vietnam in January 1969 with Delta Company. He fought in the Battle of Long Khan, where he killed someone for the first time and watched his best friend die in front of him after insisting on taking Terry's turn as forward scout. Days later, he spent three days in house-to-house fighting at Binh Ba, an experience so intense his mind shut down the details completely. He came home and buried it all, working as a bus conductor, then an accountant, deliberately pushing Vietnam to the back of his mind.
Thirty years later, in 2000, Terry fell apart at work as a financial controller at Paramount Pictures. Everything came flooding back. What saved him was steadiness: a psychiatrist he saw for years, the Army brotherhood he reconnected with, and Lynn, the woman he met in 1987 who he calls the love of his life. She had two adult children and five grandchildren who became his family not by blood but by heart. Terry softened from the hardened person he had become. He plays golf every week, bowls twice a week, speaks at schools during Anzac and Remembrance periods telling young people that war is not good and urging them to prevent future wars. He loves his grandchildren to pieces. At 75, he lives in a townhouse surrounded by neighbours of all ages, shares meals and Saturday drinks in the driveway, and describes his life as happy. The gold in the cracks, he shows, is found in the people who show up and the daily presence of those we love.
“At the time, it didn't affect me, but it took a long time to actually get back to me that that had happened.”
“I met the love of my life in 1987. We're still together, and so that's great. I should have met her when I was zero.”
“Ever since I got home from war, day one, I've been thankful. Can't say more than that.”
The hero, today
Terry has known his best friend from the Army for 70 years, longer than anyone in his family, and still sees him regularly at reunions and gatherings. Survivor guilt stayed with Terry for decades after his friend was killed in front of him at Long Khan, a guilt he carried until he finally began to process it through the Veterans Federation. The memories of war, especially the house-to-house fighting at Binh Ba, were so traumatic that Terry's mind shut down the details completely at the time, only to have them return 30 years later when he broke down at work. Terry's marriage to Lynn, whom he met in 1987, gave him what he calls 'a new lease on life' and allowed him to soften from the hardened person he had become, partly through his relationship with her children and grandchildren who are not his by blood but are fully his by heart. Terry tells every schoolchild he speaks to that war is started by politicians but fought by young men, and that they should do everything they can to prevent future wars, even though he doubts wars will stop as long as humans exist.
Yes. Terry James (R) is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Terry has known his best friend from the Army for 70 years, longer than anyone in his family, and still sees him regularly at reunions and gatherings.
Survivor guilt stayed with Terry for decades after his friend was killed in front of him at Long Khan, a guilt he carried until he finally began to process it through the Veterans Federation.
The memories of war, especially the house-to-house fighting at Binh Ba, were so traumatic that Terry's mind shut down the details completely at the time, only to have them return 30 years later when he broke down at work.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 00:00
This limited Kintsugi Heroes podcast series was made possible through grant funding provided by the New South Wales Department of Communities and Justice Connecting Seniors Grant Program. If you'd like to find out more about Kintsugi Heroes, head to kintsugiheroes.com.au. Welcome to our Kintsugi Heroes special series, Connecting Seniors. Where we share the experiences of ageing Australians to create connections across our communities. In this episode of Connecting Seniors, we're revisiting a conversation from Kintsugi Heroes with a senior who is making an impact on the world or connecting with their community. This week, we hear Avalon Clarke's chat with Terry James.
Terry James (R) (Guest) · 00:50
I'm here today with Terry James. How are you doing, Terry?
Aveline Clark (Host) · 00:53
Getting older by the second, Avalon, unfortunately.
Terry James (R) (Guest) · 00:56
Well, that must make two of us.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 00:58
Yeah, that's right. I think we're all in that condition.
Terry James (R) (Guest) · 01:01
Yes, I think so. Well, I want to thank you for coming along and being open to sharing your story and spending time with me today. I know it's not always easy to share one's story and just want to honor you for being brave and courageous and showing up to share your story that will help others.
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Terry's marriage to Lynn, whom he met in 1987, gave him what he calls 'a new lease on life' and allowed him to soften from the hardened person he had become, partly through his relationship with her children and grandchildren who are not his by blood but are fully his by heart.
This conversation includes a baby boomer born in 1947, the letter from the federal government, recruit training and posting to 5rar, finding an old friend in uniform, vietnam, january 1969 and the battle of long khan.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 01:19
Well, I've done this, I mean, not so much to this nth degree, but I have done lots of public speaking and lots of events. So I can feel free to chat about these kind of things, especially I spoke in the mentoring men on one session in detail.
Terry James (R) (Guest) · 01:34
Well, we're keen as mustard, ready to dig in. I'm going to hand the mic over to you. Please take us back to the beginning. Where does your story start?
Aveline Clark (Host) · 01:43
Well, my story starts on about 6:15 PM on the 5th of June, 1947. I guess that makes me one of the early baby boomers. Um, my mother was 29, my father was 40, so there's 11 years age gap. They met during World War II, married, and had me. And 12 years later, they had another baby, my sister Anne, who sadly I don't see very often these days, and she's under different circumstances which I won't go into. So that's when I started, back in 1947, which makes me 75 now. Sometimes I feel 75. Other times I don't feel so unified in the mind. I was raised a Catholic. I'm not such a good Catholic these days. I went to St. Patrick's boarding school in Goulburn, did the leave certificate there in 1964. I always wanted to be an archaeologist because I won the school prize for ancient history. I thought, what I'll do is I'll work a couple of years, save some money, travel to England, go to Liverpool, go and see the Beatles at the Cavern Club, and Carnaby Street in London, all those fabulous places of the early '60s. And do that. So I worked for a couple of years, um, and sometime in 1966 I got this funny letter in the mail from the federal government that said, we want you for 2 years military service. So I was conscripted into the Australian Army, into the Australian Army on the 4th of October 1967, and for 2 years I was a soldier. Unexpected, um, I suppose Knowing the things I know now, a year later, I could have got out of it if I wanted to, but I didn't. It was a thing to do in those days. Um, I felt that some kind of duty, even though with hindsight you look back and you think, yeah, really, was it? Yeah, was it the right thing to do? Was war right? Should we have been there in the first place? But that's what I— well, what in those days, and I had to kind of cope with that. Okay, well, I went through my recruit training down at Kapuka at Wagga. The Army Training Center down there, 3 months recruit training. That was tough, but I was fortunate. I'd been at boarding school for 3 years, so I guess that helped me interact with those situations I needed to look after myself in. It certainly was a, a tough time down there for 3 months. When you graduate from the recruit training center in the Army, they give you 3 choices of corps you want to go to. And I was a bit lazy, I suppose, and I thought I want to go to Armored Corps, Artillery, or Engineers. I was never really good at walking, So I applied for those and I got infantry. None of what I wanted. I just wanted bodies for Vietnam basically at the time. So I was in, I was, I was chosen in the infantry section, infantry corps actually it was called. Then I was sent to Singleton, the corps training in my army profession. I was then posted to the 5th Battalion Royal Australian Regiment, which is based at Halesworthy. At that time there were 9 battalions in the Australian Regiment and I was in the 5th. Our mascot was a tiger. I'm not sure if you can see the mascot here, the tiger with the 5th Battalion motto on it. I never got that tattoo until about 10 years ago when my granddaughter gave me a tattoo voucher for Christmas, which is quite strange from her. So, uh, because they got little tattoos as well and they said, 'Pop, you need some tattoos.' I said, 'No, I don't.' But they did and I got that. Yeah, I was posted to 5RAR where I served in Australia for 6 months, and then I went to Vietnam in kind of late January 1969. Spent there till October that year. I came home and I was discharged from the army after 2 years. I thought about staying on, but I, I decided not to. After that, I had to decide what to do. I, I want to be an archaeologist, but there was no money in archaeology at the time, so I thought, okay, I'll study something where there's good money. And I, I studied, I studied accounting. Which is boring, but good money. And I thought one day I might get back into archaeology, but I never did. So I've always in my life, I guess since I left school, I've been in the army, I've done accountancy, and I'm retired. So that's basically it. And I still love to watch ancient history shows on Fox Top, on the History Channel, especially the Ancient Egypt. It's my thing. And drives my wife insane because she hates it and loves movies. So that's where my youth was, uh, some misspent. Um, 3 years of boarding school, it was wonderful. I made some great friends. And then before I went to boarding school, when I went to primary school, I made a friend when I was 5, and I've got a photo of him with my 5th birthday party. So forward a bit to the Army, I get posted to 5RR at Hallsworthy. I walk into the playground one day there, and who do I bump into? That friend who I hadn't seen for 10 years. And I've now known him for 70 years, longer than anybody in my family, longer than my sister, who is kind of 12 years younger than me. So knowing someone for 70 years is a big thing, I think, you know. And it makes me feel good to see him. Then I'm going to see him on the 2nd of May at Warhaple. We go for an army reunion up there. I'll be staying at Fort Macquarie, but we'll see all the old mates. So, um, yeah, the Army was great, um, until I went to Vietnam. Yeah, well, it was a good bit because you make the best friends in the world after your family, yeah, or the military of any kind, Army, Navy, Air Force. But, you know, there's a saying in the Army especially that, um, the Navy navigates by the stars, the Army sleeps under the stars, and the Air Force books 5 stars. So we always say that to the Air Force because it makes them feel a bit jealous and envious, you know. But in the Army, I didn't want to be in the infantry. I wanted to be, you know, riding around in another tank, a Centurion tank or something, or another personnel carrier. Now I get to be so proud that I was one of the elite infantry soldiers of the Australian Army. I get to wear my lanyard, which is in the War Memorial display case, of course, the RSL Club on the left-hand side. I get to wear what's called an Infantry Combat Badge, and nobody else gets to wear those but infantry soldiers. I suppose you can say that because you survived. There was a few occasions where I didn't survive. I went through some tough times in Vietnam. I was there for 9 and a half months. The battalion was there for 12 months, but I had to come home because my 2-year commitment was up. But we got some tough times in Vietnam. I was in Delta Company, which is D for Delta. We were based away from our main battalion unit. We were up in what we call SAS Hill, Special Air Service Regiment Hill. We're based up there, so we had a bit of privacy, which is good. Um, we'd go out in operations for 4 to 6 weeks at a time, be back in camp anywhere from 4 to 5 days, then go out again depending on the operational time. You vary from anywhere from a week to 6 weeks. It was averaging about 4 to 5 weeks on the average. And I think if you look through the history of that war, you find that the soldiers had been there, spent more time on the front line than any soldier in any war that Australia's been involved in. Might not have been intense as the, um, as the trenches in World War I, but it was certainly more time on the front line. So that's what we get to be told anyway, and that's what we passed to our friends and associates. They know the true story. Um, I had a couple of major circumstances over there. Well, obviously I nearly got killed on many occasions, um, so I was very lucky to survive. I've been— ever since I got back when I was 22 I've been, you know, felt good about the fact that I did survive and felt lucky. But there were two occasions over there where I really nearly didn't survive. And one was called the Battle of Long Khan. Um, that's the first place I killed someone. It's not a nice feeling, but you don't think about it when you do it. Shooting somebody in the back is what I did, and you just do those things. You sprung an ambush. In wars, you were then You just have to do what you have to do to survive. At the time, it didn't affect me, but it took a long time to actually get back to me that that had happened. Uh, the same, uh, same operation, I lost a good friend. He was killed. Um, we used to have forward scouts, two forward scouts in each section, and you'd alternate. Uh, one day you'd be the scout, next minute the other scout would be front, in the front. So one day it was my turn to be up front. My friend said to me, 'No.' I said, 'I'll take it again today.' I said, 'No, no, don't, it's my turn.' He said, 'No, no, I'll do it.' Anyway, we walked into an ambush and he got hit badly, and he died 5 meters in front of me after 4 hours. I couldn't get to him, so I've always felt a bit of survivor guilt because of that fact, you know. Um, he was a good friend, and sadly he was due to come home the following week. To be home for the birth of his first child with his wife. It was very sad. So circumstances like that make it tough, but you go on because you have to go on. It's kill or be killed in war, and that's what it was all about. Another incident was a battle called the Battle of Binh Ba, which is on the battle lines of the Royal Australian Regiment after Long Tan. Binh Ba was a village, a regional village, well known for its rubber plantations and processing. And it was a French village originally, but it's quite a big town by Vietnamese standards. And one day we got a call, our battalion got a call from the village chief saying they'd been overrun by the North Vietnamese in Bến Cầu. Could we come out to help? I was on what was called Delta Company, was called the Ready Reaction Company on that occasion. Normally in a company of infantry you'd have about 120 men. We had about 70 because people were away on R&R, rest and convalescence, and R&R wounded and R&R and doing courses somewhere. So we had about 70 to 75 men out of 120. So we were bundled into personnel carriers quickly and driven out there with support by helicopter gunships and Centurion tanks. And we spent 3 days house to house fighting in the Battle of Binh Ba, something we weren't trained for because we were trained for jungle warfare. And, um, it was different. 3 days house to house fighting. Fortunately, we only lost 1 person. It was very stressful. I can't remember much about it, to be honest. I remember everything about my tour in Vietnam, but those 3 days of what I did was so intense that it really had an impact on me that I hadn't realized for a long, long time. I try to think back now and I can't remember a thing of what I did apart from the end of it. We had to drag bodies into the central square, hundreds of bodies. What we call the enemy—VC, NVA, regular army. And it happened the day after my 22nd birthday. And I thought, oh, this could be my last birthday. But it turned out not to be. I was very fortunate. It was very close on many occasions, but we survived. And that was what really got me going over there. Um, house-to-house fighting, up close and personal with bayonets, that kind of thing. You don't see much about that in the press these days. But it was, and like I said, hundreds of bodies later on, I think. They fought bravely, as did we, you know. Changed my life. Not immediately. I got home from war and I tended to put it out of reach of everything. I just completely forgot about everything. I was discharged. We came out, we went to North Head Army Depot where we were discharged. We had to come in every day for a week. They put us on parade, call our names off, and we could go away and then come back in the afternoon. That was it. And they, at the end of that period, go inside a document, and they instead of calling me Private James, which I was at the time, Mr. James, by and large. Then you realize you're out of the army. What do I do now? You know, because prior to the war, prior to the army, I've been working in the Department of Government Transport. I've done it. I saw working as a bus conductor for about a year, trying to save that money to go to England. Conscription ruined that. So I went back to there and I said, don't invest in that again for a while till I work out what I want to do. So I went and worked in the bus depot as a revenue clerk, collecting all the money that they brought in, counting all that. I guess that led partly to my accounting interests. So I did that and it was, I decided I couldn't do that for much longer. What do I do? So I applied to join the Commonwealth Public Service and I joined the Overseas Telecommunications Commission. Where I worked for 11 years while I studied accountancy. Then over the years, I graduated from the Institute of Technology then, which is now the University of Technology. And I started working in major corporate entities like Lightsavers Confectionery and Hopal, things like that, you know. Cadbury's, I've seen that into Cadbury's from there. And then I went to a number of building companies as well, kind of names kind of elude me quickly. So I worked as an accountant for a long time and I made my life and I put— can nearly put everything military-wise to the back of my mind and forgot all about it. And then my best friend, who sadly served with me, but sadly died 11 years back from lung cancer, um, he was my best friend, best man at each other's weddings, and we saved each other's lives on a few occasions in Vietnam. He said, look, he said, you're not doing very well, why don't you go and see the Vietnam Veterans Federation at Granville? And try and get a war service pension. So I did. I went and saw them, and, um, they were very helpful, and, um, they brought everything back. All the memories came flooding back— good memories, bad memories, you name it. Kept working for a few years, and then in April 2000, I fell apart at work. I was a financial controller for Paramount Pictures at the time, which is a great job because we had our own private cinema. You can see previews of all the movies before they came out, and it was great. You know, which staff— when I went to work one day, I said, what am I doing? I can't do it anymore. I've lost what I'm doing, you know. And so I had to retire, and I applied for a TPI pension through the Veterans Affairs Department. I got that. I was going to wreck. Um, it just all came flooding back all of a sudden, and that's what, that's what caught me off guard, because I wasn't expecting to do that. When I came back from Vietnam, my mother said I turned into a hardcore person. Which I think you've got to do. And when you're 22, you're a hardcore person, you think, is that real or not? But I think it was because it changed you. Or does that— no matter. In between all that, before I retired, I got married when I was 31, I think it was. Actually, she proposed to me, which is unusual. We got married, but it lasted 7 years, unfortunately, and she couldn't cope with the stress that I was going through at the time, so She was worried about Agent Orange affecting me with children and all that kind of stuff. So we eventually got divorced, and, um, I lived the life of Riley for a couple of years. I met the love of my life in 1987. We're still together, and so that's great. But, um, this— even going back further, back to Vietnam, I was, um— when you're in Vietnam, you get what's called R&R, rest and recreation, 6 days, 7 nights. And I always wanted to go to Hong Kong, so I ended up going to Hong Kong. And, um, I was there in July 1969 when they were trying to land on the moon. It was great watching that. I think they even had color TV back then, in 1969 in Hong Kong. So far advanced than us. It was great. It's big stadium, sitting nice, wonderful. Yeah, a lot of Americans over there. Even in Vietnam, we, we Didn't meet many Americans in Vietnam, but on one operation we did. I know I'm clicking backwards and forwards here a little bit, but, um, in Vietnam the Americans were different to us. They did 6 weeks basic training and were sent over individually, essentially. We did a lot of training, we sent over as units that were combined, organized. Americans are kind of a bit different, much as I love them, but they didn't even know Australia existed to a certain degree. I was flying over to to Hong Kong. I see you next to an American soldier after about half an hour on the plane. So we're chatting away. He said, he said, oh God, he said, you guys in Australia speak English? I said, nah, of course we don't, mate. So then that's the kind of thing we had. And we were a security company for one of their operations once. They had a big unit called the Rome Plows, big bulldozers, put them out in the lines, still covers between them, go forward and knock down the jungle. To, you know, to get rid of the hiding places for the VC. And we were security company for one of their operations for about a month. They were living in the life of luxury in their base camp with the bulldozers. They had an ice cream factory in the middle of their base camp. Meanwhile, we were living on the perimeter, going and patrolling through the swamps and being de-leached every half hour, but it'd be through leeches, you know. So they had it great over there, but we had it pretty rough compared to what they had. They were still nice guys, bit naive, but nice guys. That's what I meant. That's this guy in the plane on the way to Hong Kong. I said, yeah, of course we speak English, mate. We speak better than you do. That was a nice guy. So now I'm going forward again now, back to when I was married. Um, we didn't want— she didn't want to have any kids straight away because the potential of Agent Orange. Sadly, she had one abortion because she didn't, um, want to have the child because of that problem. We weren't— we were engaged at that point in time, we weren't married. So I was unsure I wanted the child then or not. And no, I so regret it now, so regret it now. But that's happened. You can't change history. Somebody can't change history about a war. And, um, so she had an abortion and I ended up not having any kids of my own. So I got back to normal life and, and, um, at that point in time I still put Vietnam behind me to a certain degree. And I started— all the friends that I made over there in the army, I've given up on for years. Just hadn't seen anybody, even though my best friend, Gary Smith, his name was, um, very simple name but not a simple guy, a lovely guy. He got in touch with me and he said, look, mate, he said, you're not doing the best. You've got to go out and see the Vietnam Veterans Federation in Granville, which I did and saw them and put the process through the Department of Veterans Affairs. And got— I was lucky to get that because I was falling apart at the time, had something about the work situation as I explained before. I didn't know what to do. And by this stage, 1998, I'd met my new partner Lynn, and she, she was divorced, just divorced, two kids, Susan, 17, and Stephen, 14. And we've been together ever since 1987. Now Sue's 53 and Steve's just turned 50, so be to me like my children. And that was tough at first. I didn't want to try and replace their father because you don't do that. You don't come in that kind of stage, a teenager, and try and place a parent. You're just going to be a friend. And that's what I tried to do. Um, it was easy with Stephen and Sue because she was all set in her ways and she was a teenager and left school, and Steve was sort of school at that stage. But now, best friends kind of thing, you know, and their children I'm pop to their children. So Sue's got 3 children and Steve's got 2. Yeah, I'm, I'm pop to them. Yeah, I love being pop. Yeah, couldn't think of anything better in life than being a grandfather, even though not by blood, but by heart. Yeah, so I love them to pieces, and I think they love me to pieces too. So that's how it's been. Um, what happened next, and I started seeing psychiatrist. I saw a psychiatrist every month for about 5 years, 5 or 6 years. Um, I gave that up a couple of years ago. There may be even more than 5 or 6, maybe 10 years, I think. Um, I contacted my old Army friends and remade those contacts again. Uh, I'm getting involved in the RSL and ex-service organizations. I never wanted to be an RSL member from the time I got out of the Army, but in about 1996 My best friend again, Gary, talked me into getting involved in the RSL, which I did. He's responsible for a lot of things. He got me into golf. I'll get into that in a minute. But, um, so Gary said you should come in and involved in the RSL, which I did. I joined the RSL, then I got heavily involved, and then I got elected as honorary secretary of Hornsby RSL sub-branch for 5 years. And then I got elected as president of Hornsby RSL sub-branch for 5 years, which I gave up 3 years ago. So I was heavily involved in the RSL in New South Wales, and I was responsible for organizing all the Anzac ceremonies. I was on Paul Fletcher's National Committee for the Centenary of Anzac. And I had one of my guests at one of my events was Ben Roberts-Smith, VC. We know that Ben's going through dramas at the moment, but I think the 3D veterans will find that they support Ben rather than the politicians who try to mediate him. So that's what I did. And I, for many years, I was involved with the RSL. And I still certainly do. I still am. It looks like I'm going to become an attendant at the Cenotaph in Martin Place in Sydney. Hopefully that will happen in the next couple of weeks. I don't know why I'm doing it. I'm just doing, I think we've got unfinished business. So we'll see what happens there. And like I said, the things that really, on my journey back, that pulled me forward was meeting men. Been great. She's 5 years older than me, but she's lovely. We just made for each other. I should have met her when I was zero. Really wonderful. So she gave me a new lease on life as well as a love in my life. Um, and the family of hers is mine. So, uh, so where I am now, I'm in a happy place mostly. I've given up seeing a psychiatrist. I don't need to do that anymore. I've given up antidepressant tablets. I still have the odd nightmare. I had a major nightmare probably about 15 years ago when I had this really bad nightmare of a bayonet being thrust into my chest very slowly, very, very slowly, and I jumped up screaming in the middle of the night. You know, I remember that vividly. I gradually wore myself out of those. I don't know how I did it, but I did. So I don't have those much anymore. But I have the odd dream here and there about military service. You can't be involved in a war which kills and be killed and not think about it for the rest of your life, I don't think. My time with the RSL was great. I was heavily involved in community events. Like I said, my friend Gary, he passed away, he got me involved in golf 20, 23 years ago. See, I mean, I've never gone to golf. I said, nah, I'm good at golf. I was a squash player. Anyway, I went and played golf and I stayed. I still play there. Um, I've been playing there for 22 years. Out of those 22 years, I've been treasurer for 20 years. Everybody wants you to be treasurer when they find your retired accountant. It always happens to be the case. So I play golf every week, um, about 3 holes in one over the years, and I'm very proud of that. I've still got a reasonably high handicap, but still had those 3 holes in one. So I play there every week at Fox Hills, which is about 7 hills away, a long way from Astor, where I live, but it's worth the trip because I love it. It's a great place to be. Like I said, my mother said I was a hard person. I got back— I think I've softened a lot now over the years with my involvement with Lynn and the kids and the grandkids. Yeah, I think they've helped make me a better person than what I was. I was never really in trouble. I just was a coward. Mum was right, a coward heart person, you know. The sad thing about it was she died 12 years ago from dementia at 96. Um, she didn't know me in the end, so I'd like her to think that she would have known me as a better person. Because what I've done, my recollections and reflections on life, pretty good, I think. Um, tell you more, dealing with more emotional issues, that's the thing, which I did for a long time. I didn't know I even had emotional issues until, um, one day I kind of cracked, you know. But I got back into the Army because it's your second family. You will never ever lose the connection with Army friends. Um, recollections, look, over the years I've given gives speeches at many schools and, and community organizations. I still give speeches in schools even though I'm not involved as president of the RSL anymore, over Anzac period and Remembrance Day period and all those kind of events, which is significant, and still alive. And I've always, um, tried to tell the young kids these days that war is not good. It's started by politicians, it's fought by young men who commit their lives to a war. So they should do everything they can do to prevent future wars. Sadly, I don't think that wars are going to stop as long as there's humans on this world. Perhaps, you know, always have culture, you know, one of those things that I always try and convince young kids to do. Sorry for the interruption. This is Ian Westmoreland, the founder of Katsuki Heroes, and thank you for listening to this story from one of our amazing Heroes. Our mission is for these stories to provide hope and inspiration to people experiencing life challenges and to also educate the broader community on how best to provide support. If you would like to help us to continue to produce more hero stories and cover more adversity themes, we would welcome all donations. These can be made via our website kitsukiheroes.com.au. The donate function is at the bottom of the homepage. We'd also welcome any feedback. You can email me direct using ian@kintsugiheroes.com.au. Now let's get back to the story. My life now, very happy. I'm 75, like I said. Um, I enjoy my golf, I enjoy socializing with friends, uh, I don't see my sister Sarah because she's 12 years younger, but for a long time she's been an alcoholic and a drug addict. I've tried to help over the years, it hasn't worked out. She's living with a guy who's kind of about 6 months younger than me, so she's 12 years younger, um, and he hasn't helped because he was a drug dealer to start off with, you know. So I tried to help, but I don't see her very often, once every couple of years or something the most, and she keeps phoning me in the middle of the night, really. Cause the alcohol and drugs kind of thing just kick in and she goes crazy on the phones. It's very sad when you've got one sibling and that's it, you know. So I concentrate on the family that I've got, not my natural family, but in my wonderful family. Still on the National Committee of my 5-hour association. In their effect, I've got a, uh, a Zoom meeting on Tuesday next week. Yeah, for that. Um, and I'm going to, in the 2nd of April, I'm going to Warhope. To Northern New South Wales for an army reunion with my company and my unit's other company. We're staying at Port Macquarie, so I've seen lots of friends there, about 40-odd guys are going, so that's great. We've lost probably a lot, you know, and I have from boarding school, my next best group of friends are from boarding school, of course, because I spent 3 years there in Goulburn. Cold in winter, freezing in winter, hot in summer. But you make great friends there too, and we see each other regularly in what's called the Sydney Chapter. And everybody that I know that's still alive comes to see me in December for Christmas function. That's great. So there's two groups. I've got three groups in my life, family, army, school. And that's where you go. It's great. I live in a townhouse at Ashworth, which I was a chairman of the strata plan for a while. I gave that up as well. So I'm still on the committee. It's a great place to live with the old folks. So they look after us well. The people next door, lovely Indian family, they bring meals to us occasionally. We have, with the other people around in their 40s and 30s and some maybe 50s, we have drinks in the driveway on Saturdays and things like that. You know, we have Christmas lunches in the driveway, we have Halloween in the driveway, we have all that sort of thing, Easter in the driveway. So it's a great little community place here at Ashworth. And I'm so happy that these young guys think a lot of us enough to participate with us in what we do, you know. And enjoy our company. So we tend to live earlier than they do, of course. So that's what we do. And we played around bowls twice a week. I played bowls, actually. I was on the board of a bowling club for a couple of years as well, but I gave that up last year because I'm not a bowler. My interest wasn't there. They wanted me on until a casual vacancy, trying to convince me to become treasurer. I said, no, I don't want to do that. I'm treasurer of my golf club. That's enough. You know, they don't get paid for that either. So You know, so that's where we go. And, um, that's life. And enjoying it. The grandkids— well, Sarah's 27 this year. She's got a partner Ignatius in Spanish, and they bought a unit together at Langkow a couple of years ago. Charlotte turns 35 next Thursday, and Georgia turns 20 in November. And Sarah, the oldest, she's got a degree and a master's in physiotherapy. George has got a degree in business and Charlotte's doing a university at UTS for nursing. So then our family, we've got nursing, physiotherapist, and her, Charlotte's boyfriend, Gianty, is doing paramedic. So we've got paramedic, a physiotherapist, potential nurse. My son-in-law's brother is a theater nurse at Royal North Shore Hospital. So all the medical is covered for our family. So hopefully Whenever it gets down to, you know, to health-wise, we're looked after by the family. So it's a lovely thing to have. So that's about my life at the moment, I think. I'm in a good place, reasonably good place. I have moments still where I think about, you can't ever get war out of your system. As like I say, I tell the kids when I speak to them, the war's no good. So you've got to try and prevent war as best you can in the world. Who knows what's going to happen in the future. Ukraine, you know, it's one of those places you get people like that. Great people, great people die. Horrible people like that, they don't. So you've got to think about those kind of things. That's what I tell the people. I was giving a speech a couple of years ago, I want to speak at a public school. I spoke to the whole school and then they asked me to go and speak in year 4 and I spoke to year 4. And one of the kids, one of the boys, probably about year 4, that's right about 9 or 10 or something, I think it is. 8 or 9, maybe. And he said, oh, he said, Mr. James, he said, what kind of gun did you have? I said, oh, you probably wouldn't know, it was a black one. He said, oh, was it an M16? I said, oh yeah, you know, don't you? You know, they know. And then walking out the gate, there's a young kid, he's probably about 5 or 6, just in basic primary school. He looked up at me and he said, he said, Mr. James, I think you must have served in the army with my great-great-grandfather. And I thought, oh God, no, potentially, potentially your great-grandfather. So perceptions of age is what the kids are. I love speaking to schools like that, you know, that's great. And I do that still regularly, even though not as much as I used to because I'm not president of the RSL anymore. I left that to somebody else now. I did my bit, but I still like speaking to schools and social community organizations. Sometimes you can't even shut me up.
Terry James (R) (Guest) · 32:25
Sarah, you've got a lot of— it's a great story. Thank you so much. I have to say you're pretty much the same age as my father.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 32:32
Vietnam, I think you're so old.
Terry James (R) (Guest) · 32:36
No, no, it's okay. He's sprightly and young just like you. He was inscripted into the army just like you. He must have got the letter in the post. He did his time, but he didn't go over to Vietnam, so he got stationed at home. He was one of the admin staff, but I can't remember why that was. I'm intrigued to go and ask him how he got that position.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 32:58
I feel a bit, to a certain degree, I feel a bit sorry for guys like your father because you get 2 years into the army and you don't achieve a lot, you don't get a lot out of it kind of thing, you know. I'm not saying fighting wars a lot, but you certainly get— if you survive a war, you get certain benefits. Yeah, but your father might not get, you know, but he, I guess he was out of harm's way all the time, wasn't he? Yeah, which is good, but he did his bit for the country and that's fabulous. That's all you can ask for.
Terry James (R) (Guest) · 33:26
Can't say I've ever spoken to someone apart from my great uncle who's been in a war, so I'm really privileged. I feel privileged today to speak with you about this. Describe your story really beautifully, quickly, and I know that there's a lot of detail there, and I also accept that it was 53 years ago. And you've got— it fascinates me, the human mind, body, emotions, and how when you were in that village you have no recollection of it. I'm thinking about that and I'm going, when you were in combat going door to door, can you remember, were the locals still there? The people that lived in the houses, were they all there still? They had—
Aveline Clark (Host) · 34:04
we had to evacuate most of them, but they also had cellars. A lot of them went into their cellars. And so it was house-to-house fighting, and you had to take into account you couldn't tell who the enemy was all the time. I mean, talking about VC especially, NVA, regular North Vietnamese Army, people had uniforms on. VC didn't, so you just couldn't always tell who was who. And we had a task force based down at a place called, uh, Bánh Thảo on the coast, and that's where the task force headquarters was. I was based at Nui Dat, so they're inland. But down at Bánh Thảo, they had what's called the Harold Holt Memorial Swimming Pool. I think you can guess why Harold Holt Memorial Swimming Pool was named, because Harold wasn't very good in the water. And we used to go down there once every, uh, 72 hours, guys. I don't know if you know the song 'I Was Only 19,' but in that there's some verse saying 32 hours, 36-hour red alert in Vung Tau. That was it. So you go down there, mate, twice during the time I was there, like, you know, we had the swimming pool there and the local Vietnamese are cleaning it, and they were cleaners everywhere kind of thing, basically. But one night on an ambush, killed some VC, and one of those VC was on a swimming pool attendant. So you just can't tell. Who's friend and who's foe in those circumstances. A bit like the guys, young guys in Afghanistan faced over recent years, you know, also Afghanistan and Iraq, but certainly like that. And that's what I said to Ben Roberts-Smith, please just be proud of what you've done no matter what they say. Um, you can't fight a win a war against terrorists and insurgents by fighting criminally. And I wouldn't like to tell you what we had to do. I just won't tell anybody that. My family knows nothing. Basically. We talk amongst ourselves. Yeah, you just don't know who the enemy is in those circumstances.
Terry James (R) (Guest) · 35:48
Yeah, it's pretty big for all of us that have never been part of a war. All we can do is imagine, you know. We have movies, books, we have stories. Hopefully everyone listening to this story is just grateful for the presence that you had over there, you and your battalion and your unit. What you did, the bravery. And it sounded like you, you knew you were there. You were Tiger. You were there on behalf of Australia. You were there. You had a mission to complete, and you did it with bravery. And you did— your body also, you know, your, your mind shutting things out, did what it needed to, to cope.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 36:27
We were younger too. I came home at 65 kilos, you know. Now I'm what, 84 or something, you know. So we were young and fit and healthy, kind of thing, you know. Our brains might have been a bit addled when we got back for a while. So eventually, kind of, it wore away, but not completely. Never does. Never does. It never will for anybody who's fought in a war. And that's what you tell the kids, you know.
Terry James (R) (Guest) · 36:51
Yeah, I was going to ask, you know, when you've caught up with your other war veterans, have— do they also have the nightmares and the flashbacks and most.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 37:00
I've never met anybody who doesn't, to be honest, you know. They have issues. Yeah, I mean, Agent Orange was a big issue at one stage, but I don't know many people who were affected by Agent Orange. I know most who were affected by PTSD, like I was, because I had that guilt survivor complex when my friend got killed instead of me. And I guess we did kill people. The first one you do, it's kind of, you know, you think, I'll kill somebody. Yeah. It's not right. And with hindsight, wonderful hindsight, everyone, we should not have been in Vietnam. But it was a time, there was a mentality of the world at the time. Stop the yellow boats from coming south, support our allies, the Americans, who then asked to help the South Vietnamese. Uh, no, no, no, carries on like that, right? Hindsight's a lantern. We shouldn't have been there, in reflection. Nobody should have been there. It's their country. They employed that amongst themselves. But Look at the war going on today, same thing basically. Indeed, indeed.
Terry James (R) (Guest) · 37:56
And, and I think your perspective and experience is so welcome but also wise. And you were saying about your— you like the way that your neighbors are all different ages except you and your wife Lynn, and how you get together and have the drinks and all of that. Of course, you know, of course you've, you've lived so many more years beyond us and You have just— you radiate this warmth and this joy. Good on you for being so open to life, you know, and you've got these beautiful people around you. And I love how you've given back to your community year after year after year, decade after decade, and constantly served and continued to serve.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 38:36
Yeah, I've done a lot in the community since then. Yeah, I've done a lot. Yeah, but I'm cutting back a little bit now because I've been treasurer of my golf club for a long time. I was on the board of the bowling club for a while, and I been here, you've been there, kind of thing, you know. So yeah, I've done a lot over the time. Two of the most important things to me, my youngest granddaughter in Sydney, Charlotte, who just is 19 now— when she was 10 or something like that, I think it was, she asked me to speak at her primary school for Anzac Day, which I did. She wrote a note about my situation and she said, my pops lived in the army, he was in Vietnam, blah blah blah blah blah. But the most thing about the problem, she said, I love him because he gives time to me all the time, and that's the most important thing in my point of view, you know. And actually, she'll down the spine with the grandkids, you know, even though they're not my natural grandchildren, they are my grandchildren, and they love me like that. I love me, you know. And we're trying to say to the girls, come on, girls, we want great-grandchildren. Come on, you know. My daughter says, we want grandchildren as well, Dad. My grandson, my son-in-law, of course, we're popular with him. He's 56.
Terry James (R) (Guest) · 39:39
Yeah, that's beautiful. See, you are— blood, the blood thing doesn't matter. Just like you've got those groups of friends from the Army, from school.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 39:47
Yeah, it's in the heart. Yeah, that's right. And I've got, you know, like I said, we've got 3 families. Family 1, family at home. Family 2, Army. And Family 3, boarding school, which is great. You know, we see each other a lot.
Terry James (R) (Guest) · 39:58
Thank you. I just want to wrap up and, and ask you— I ask everybody this, and hopefully this still resonates with you and your story, and that is if there's anyone listening to this now who resonates, or maybe who's not heard or realized what it took for our soldiers to go to war, or maybe there's someone else who has been a soldier at war who's listening to this, is there anything you'd like to say to them right now? Duty done.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 40:25
Duty done. You know, to the regiment. That's about it, really. I mean, You can't say much more than that. Yeah, I was, I was fortunate I never got wounded. Um, came close very many times, came close to dying many times, but I was fortunate. So, you know, I've got health issues here, there, and everywhere, but I don't complain because that's life. You know, a lot of people are a lot worse off than me. I see the, I see the floods in New South Wales, the floods overseas, the earthquakes in Turkey and Syria. I think, God, how lucky am I? You know, ever since I got home from war, day one, I've been thankful. Can't say more than that.
Terry James (R) (Guest) · 41:00
That's a beautiful way to be. Thank you, Terry. It's been a pleasure talking with you today.
Aveline Clark (Host) · 41:05
Eveline, wonderful. Thank you very much. Thank you for listening to this episode of Connecting Seniors, a Consider Heroes special series. Thank you to Colin Lilly for permission to use Broken as our theme music for this series. If you enjoyed this conversation, share the podcast with a friend and let us know by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to support Kintsugi Heroes and the stories we share, head to kintsugiheroes.com.au and follow the instructions to make a tax-deductible donation. Thank you for listening. And we'll see you next time.
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