Is this a true story?

Yes. Robyn Catchlove is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.

What organisation produced this?

Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.

What did Robyn Catchlove learn from this experience?

Robyn's mother told her that her life was written already, and that acceptance comes not from understanding why but from trusting the shape her life has taken.

What would Robyn Catchlove want listeners to know?

When Robyn stopped grizzling about what she should or shouldn't have done and started thanking everything, including the things she disliked, she found that forgiveness fell away naturally without effort.

What helped Robyn Catchlove most along the way?

Robyn discovered that the more certain and important we feel, the further we move away from awareness and truth.

What would Robyn Catchlove tell someone going through something similar?

The Aboriginal people at Aurukun taught Robyn that knowledge travels by word of mouth across generations, and that respect means listening rather than assuming you know.

What topics does this episode cover?

This conversation includes a curious child in adelaide, books, puns, and questions that drove her parents mad, ten years in a top-secret office, walking away from a stable marriage, the old man of the normanby river and ten years fishing between new guinea and queensland.

Dancing amongst life's chaos and adventures with Robyn Catchlove

Kintsugi Studio

Dancing amongst life's chaos and adventures with Robyn Catchlove | Kintsugi Heroes Stories

Overview

Robyn Catchlove grew up poor in Adelaide with parents who fed her voracious mind through weekly library visits and games of puns at the dinner table. Her father taught himself Latin and read the dictionary for pleasure. Her mother, when Robyn was in her fifties and apologizing for the unconventional life she had chosen, told her something that would reshape how she held her own story: your life is written already. Not as fate, but as a shape that, looking back, made sense.

After a decade transcribing top-secret briefings about the first spy satellite, Robyn left her stable marriage and sailed into the ocean with a man who built fishing boats in a shed. For ten years she wrestled crocodiles, cyclones, and the raw demands of the wilderness between New Guinea and Queensland. She learned to read tides and rivers, to kill and fillet cattle with her hands, and to sit with knowledge passed down by word of mouth from Aboriginal elders like Peggy at Aurukun, who showed her how to read the land with respect and gratitude.

After a drunk-driving arrest in Cairns, Robyn wrote a spontaneous letter to the Dalai Lama and, remarkably, received a reply. She chased him across New Zealand with the same fearless curiosity that had driven her whole life, and eventually met him at Wellington Parliament House. What reached her heart was not formal Buddhism but the simple, irresistible knowledge that compassion sits at the centre of all beings. She discovered that when she stopped grizzling about what she should or shouldn't have done and started thanking everything, even the things she disliked, forgiveness fell away naturally.

Now based in Katoomba, Robyn holds space for strangers in their grief, shares stories on community radio, and dances through her neighbourhood as its official witty public nuisance. She is a masterclass in what it looks like to live with radical curiosity, hard-won compassion, and the willingness to hold regret lightly rather than as a burden.

Chapters

0:00
A curious child in Adelaide
Robyn grows up poor but voracious for knowledge, her parents feeding her mind through the library every Saturday.
5:23
Books, puns, and questions that drove her parents mad
Her father teaches himself Latin and reads the dictionary for pleasure; her mother and father handle her relentless curiosity with wisdom.
8:00
Ten years in a top-secret office
Robyn becomes a steno secretary at the Weapons Research Establishment, transcribing briefings about the first spy satellite for the Prime Minister.
11:21
Walking away from a stable marriage
Robyn leaves her husband and meets a man who builds a fishing boat in a shed, and together they launch into the ocean knowing nothing.
13:13
The old man of the Normanby River
Despite warnings, Robyn sails up the river with rum and meets Dave, a weathered river keeper who becomes her teacher in wilderness knowledge.
17:20
Ten years fishing between New Guinea and Queensland
Robyn spends a decade wrestling with crocodiles, cyclones, and men; learning to read tides and rivers; killing and filleting cattle with her hands.
22:48
Learning from Aboriginal elders at Aurukun
Robyn meets Peggy, an Aboriginal woman who teaches her to read the land, respect the seasons, and understand that knowledge passes by word of mouth.
28:20
Regret as an adventure indicator
Robyn reflects on the offer to care for an Aboriginal child, saying she now wishes she had said yes, but holds regret lightly rather than as a burden.
32:28
Arrested and writing to the Dalai Lama
After a drunk-driving arrest in Cairns, Robyn writes a spontaneous letter to His Holiness, and remarkably, receives a reply.
37:44
Following the Dalai Lama to New Zealand
Robyn chases the Dalai Lama across New Zealand, eventually meeting him at Wellington Parliament House with the help of a Māori guard and a tipsy mayor.
42:50
The teachings that reach her heart
Robyn discovers that Buddhist compassion does not require a label or formal practice, just the willingness to sit in gratitude for all beings.
56:01
A truck driver and a dead kangaroo
In Katoomba, Robyn holds a weathered truck driver as he grieves the kangaroo he hit, and together they send the animal love.

1 of 7

Books, puns, and questions that drove her parents mad

John Milham (Host) · 05:23

Darling, as I was some, a bundle of knowing everything, half smart, feisty, defending the little ones who needed it and driving my mother and father mad with questions. And I was extremely fortunate because Mum and Dad were wise. They— we were poor, we had nothing. We'd get in the bus every Saturday morning into town to the library. And we spent a whole day in the library. Dad read the English dictionary when he was 21 for fun and taught himself Latin on the way. And so by the time we were, you know, 4 and 5 years old, we were bringing home books every week from the library. We were reading every night. Puns was our number one game at home. And so, and they, they managed me well for, you know, someone, a little chappie that thought like she knew everything, you know.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 06:35

Where was this, Katchi?

John Milham (Host) · 06:39

Darling, this was down in Adelaide.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 06:41

Oh, lovely.

John Milham (Host) · 06:42

Where one only takes one's clothes off when the lights go out, darling.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 06:47

So, uh, you, so you were in proper Adelaide. What did your folks do?

John Milham (Host) · 06:52

We were poor.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 06:54

That was their official designation, poor.

John Milham (Host) · 06:56

Well, I didn't know that. We ate every night and the house was full of love. Dad was a wicker worker, then he was a greengrocer, then he was a public servant. You know, they did whatever they could to keep the little household a-cookin'.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 07:12

Mm-hmm. And how was your, you know, a childhood of curiosity, obviously. What else?

John Milham (Host) · 07:22

Basketball, playing good sport easily, naturally gifted, I would suggest, not knowing that at the time. But, you know, and cheating, I was very good at cheating. Because I took no notice in the classroom, when exams came around, I was terribly clever at, you know, just sort of popping my eyes over the other person's work. And that got me through. Crafty, you know. Crafty.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 07:54

Street, street smart, right? So, yeah.

John Milham (Host) · 07:57

Crafty catch love.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 07:58

Crafty catch love. I like it. Yeah.

Ten years in a top-secret office

John Milham (Host) · 08:00

And, and, uh, discovered school was dreadful.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 08:04

Yeah.

John Milham (Host) · 08:04

And so didn't go anymore and, and got sprung, uh, wagging it. And they, so they ended up, um, whipping me into a, um, business college. And that was easy. So I stopped going. And Mum said, don't go, whatever you do, don't go to this naughty coffee club in the centre of Adelaide. And I said, where is it, Mum?

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 08:25

And where am I not going, Mum? What's the directions?

John Milham (Host) · 08:28

Yeah. So I went straight there. Wow. And in the end, I ended up working for Weapons Research Establishment, which was the mother station to Woomera.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 08:41

Wow. And, and so you were in secret business?

John Milham (Host) · 08:45

Yes. In the end, I was the, um, became the— I was there for 10 years and I became the steno secretary for a top secret mob called Narunga.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 09:00

Right. What did they do? Is it still secret?

John Milham (Host) · 09:03

Well, it was back then, it was political topic because they didn't brief the prime, the, the, uh, the opposition member, but they briefed the Prime Minister.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 09:14

Right.

John Milham (Host) · 09:14

And, and it was, and they briefed me and they took me into this room, uh, and there was their table with the map.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 09:23

Yeah, yeah.

John Milham (Host) · 09:24

Over with the, with the light. Oh, I love it. And swinging. And I went, don't tell me, don't tell me. And, and what it was, was that it was the United States Air Force joint Australian project And it was the first spy satellite. Mm-hmm. In, and I'm talking 19, early '70s. Wow. Uh, yes.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 09:51

Uh, just a, a quick, um, back to, you know, like you hated school. I, I, I can understand that.

John Milham (Host) · 09:56

It was just boring.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 09:58

Well, were you too clever for school? Like that's that. No, legitimate question.

John Milham (Host) · 10:04

Like some people, but, but we're getting a little kid to sit at a desk.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 10:08

Yeah. Yeah.

John Milham (Host) · 10:09

But 2 hours every, you know, 4 or 5 hours a day dipping their pen in ink. All right. You know, of course if you weren't, I think you're unhealthy.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 10:18

Yeah.

John Milham (Host) · 10:18

If you just cop that. So it was, yeah, it was just an, an adventurous mind.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 10:27

Yeah. So 10 years in a, well admittedly it was a kind of, you know, cool occupation, but fairly unadventurous one really.

John Milham (Host) · 10:37

Oh, in front of a Bell typewriter every day. No.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 10:39

Yeah. Yeah. So what happened? Did that, did you burst?

John Milham (Host) · 10:43

I, I, I, I was married to a, a very lovely man and, um, um, we ended up in Cairns, which was far enough away from his and my lovely families for me to leave him, right? And be, and, and press on with having adventure. I, I didn't want to, uh, I can remember that classic entering the church to get married and hearing the da da and thinking, oh no, I don't wanna be married. And, and, and, but it was, was me. It wasn't him.

The old man of the Normanby River

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 13:13

Right.

John Milham (Host) · 13:15

And the entire sea border was there because the weather was so bad.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 13:19

Right.

John Milham (Host) · 13:20

And so we spent a week, the whole, all of us raging through this little Cooktown and drinking the joint dry. And they said, whatever you do, don't go to the Normanby River, which was just above Cooktown. Whatever you do, because there's an old cranky old man in there who carries an M1, which is a repeating rifle, under his arm all day and has been known to cut people's ears off. Don't go there.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 13:52

So where did you go, Katchie? Yeah.

John Milham (Host) · 13:55

Yeah. With a, with two bottles of rum.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 13:57

Oh, cool.

John Milham (Host) · 13:57

That's where we went. Right. And we pulled up at the little wharf, man-made wharf in, in this exquisite glistening river. Yeah. Yeah. The sky was full of, of, of animals. The land was full and so was the ocean. And the old man then in his probably late 60s with the furry hair coming out of the, you know, the, the, the old wrecked captain's hat.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 14:23

Yeah.

John Milham (Host) · 14:23

I'm slopping down the, the, the wharf with his Z1 and fires a few shots over the bow and says, 'Oh, sorry, I thought I saw a shark.' I hid behind my bloke and he led with the two bottles of rum and said, 'Don't shoot us yet, Dave, you might like us. And by the way, here's a—' So we tore the lid off of one of these bottles, it was 7 in the morning or something, we drank the bottle of rum, started to tear the lid off the second one, and the old man said, no, that's mine, son. He said, that's my— he said, now, Robyn, he said, we're going up the river to put some nets in. You can look after the kids and keep them away from the crocodiles. I said, I want to come with you. And beginning of an extraordinary relationship with this old man that had a library of, of knowledge about the river. Right. This, this exquisite, glistening, uh, untouched, yeah. Uh, uh, completely intact wilderness.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 15:38

So he was like, uh, the old man of the river. He, and he was the repository of wisdom. How long had he been there?

John Milham (Host) · 15:46

He'd been up there for 10 years or so with a woman who was in her 30s, Ray. She had 2 front teeth missing. She had long hair. She did all of the repair work on the engines, on the freezer engines, on the outboards. He had built a roof with 3 walls, timber. With a big timber table in the middle, which was filled with beer bottles, with gaskets, with old newspapers, with ashtrays with cigarette butts in them, you know. And he did all the cooking over a bubbling fire. He did, and brilliant. The roasts, the stews, the soups just every day. And he knew everything.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 16:44

That, um, that Australia is a wild place when you go to play, you know, outside of the local areas and cities and towns, right? Those men that go there and women, right? It's a very rugged place, very, you know, seen as a very masculine place. And yet There were women there, of course. Were they, how, how did they cope with, you know, did you, you know, like you are choosing to be there, what was that? You know, did you recognize that it was a masculine place or no, was it, was it not about that?

Ten years fishing between New Guinea and Queensland

John Milham (Host) · 17:20

And for me it was love, you know, and I loved the man that I was with and, and, and we were having an adventure and, um, every day was, uh, unknown. And there was always the learning about the oceans, about the tides, about the, the rivers, uh, and the, uh, untamedness of it, I suppose. Um, and yeah, the, the, the extraordinariness that was— we're talking late '70s. Early '80s, so there was no one around but us. Yeah, yeah. You know, and, and we'd go upriver and wander around with no clothes on because we could, you know. And, um, hey, the old man was a drinker, and he— and, and every day, and he brewed his own brew. And there were big freezer units, uh, that we had. And so we'd kill our own— shed our own cattle and, and do all the filleting of the cattle, take the hind legs, check the liver to make sure that the cattle was, was healthy. And, you know, and then we'd fillet it all out. If your thumb went through it, it was steak. If your thumb didn't go through it, it was stew.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 18:45

Still a good rule in the kitchen.

John Milham (Host) · 18:49

Yeah. And so it was, it was like that. And I don't think we thought about whether it was We just were there.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 18:57

Yeah. Well, it was a, it would've been a very tough existence, like physically demanding. How, how did you cope with that?

John Milham (Host) · 19:06

Uh, yes, we were strong. Mm-hmm. And healthy. I had muscles coming outta my muscles, you know, and, and, uh, I always remember the, the, uh, we'd been there a while and we were working in relation with, with the the old man and his woman, Ray, and two little kids of theirs. And, um, one day— and, and the old man was narky and always roaring, um, orders. Yeah. And wandering around with this M1 under his arm all day. And, and we were jittery. Yeah, it was— we were getting— yeah. And just one day It all got the better of me. And he's, he's roared, someone's stolen the glasses. And I was the only one that wore glasses in the camp. And I, I just kicked my chair aside. Yeah. And leapt up. Inside here, I'm going, what am I doing? Shut up. Sit down. And up with the fists like bloody Muhammad Ali. And I said, that's it. I've had enough. Get outside, Dave. Come on. Let's have a little bit of biffa. I'm not in here. I'm going, shut the you know what up. And he looked up at me and all the crocodiles stopped moving. Yeah. And snakes stopped rustling in the grass. And the two little kids, they went, everyone, the entire bush held its breath. Because no one had ever— and he looked up at me and this great big grin. Broke out and he said, oh Jesus, I love women. He said, come here, darling. He said, sit on my lap. And I did. And he said, he said to me, I'm sorry, love. He said, this was his apology, it's my monster just taking me for a walk.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 21:02

Oh wow, wow.

John Milham (Host) · 21:04

Isn't that a gorgeous description?

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 21:06

Oh man, that's so deep in it. Isn't it? Yeah. Wow.

John Milham (Host) · 21:11

And he said, and I love you and, you know, I would never hurt you and all of that.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 21:15

But wow. Of course, like such an interesting, um, self-awareness, right? The sense that, you know, he doesn't have a, you know, has never been to a psychologist, I'm sure. But yes, the sense that, you know, uh, he is where he is because he needed to regulate his monster. Yes. Yeah. Wow. What an amazing experience. So of course you are up there fishing and fighting and, you know, and being half smart. Being half smart. 10 years. What happened?

John Milham (Host) · 21:49

And I was deeply, very keen about politics and wanted always to have those kinds of discussions.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 21:56

Because that was cutting edge, saving the Daintree and the forest in North Queensland and the fishing waters. What? Were you involved in that?

John Milham (Host) · 22:04

It was before all of that. There was no one up there. We were free. That was what was most extraordinary. To get a fishing license, you went into the fishing department and filled out a form and gave them $30. Wow. See you later, motors. Later we all had to sit for skipper's tickets. Yeah, yeah. Which were involved, you know, doing a Yes.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 22:29

Being actually knowing something, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What about, um, you know, of course that's a very, uh, there's a, it's a very old country with, uh, a people that existed there way before we got around. So how did, how did that play out? How did you get on with the original inhabitants?

Learning from Aboriginal elders at Aurukun

John Milham (Host) · 22:48

From, from the Cooktown, after a couple of years we, we left and we went north.. And we fished out of Thursday Island. And by the way, anybody who's watching, take the time to go up and experience the Thursday Island culture, which is not Aboriginal. Their necks are thicker than my waist. They're big people and they're different, different facially too. And we fished out of there Spanish mackerel just south of New Guinea. And then we went down into the Gulf to Aurukun, where the Witmunkun people have camp and— or have an establishment, shall I say, the mission it's called. And the Queensland government went through all of that country and used legislation to call them missions so that the mining companies could turn up and mine there, thank you very much, without giving any royalties to the Aboriginals. And Weipa, which is where we're talking about, the bauxite is the largest deposit in the world. And so we were in the in Arakoon Country, and that was our home port. And so we mixed with the Aboriginals, and it was sad, a lot of it. The mission money, the money would come and a lot of them would drink and the little kids would suffer. But also there was an extraordinary sight, and one of them, Peggy, she and I, we became genuine mates with each other and she would walk me, say, "Robyn, Robyn, look, see this tree here?" "Yes." "You see, see the baila shell underneath?" "Yes." "That's because there's water there, Robyn. Someone has left that baila shell to show you that." Or, "Here, look, this is where you dig for turtle eggs, but you don't take all of them, Robyn." You— and so, so there was this, um, I was blessed to have this extraordinary exchange. And I said to her, oh, I said, the, um, the, uh, uh, um, before the British came, I said, you know, the Indonesians came down through here and so did the Chinese. She said, Robin, we already know that. Yeah. Yeah. She said, this was passed down by word of mouth to us. So they were very knowledgeable about their history and we had a deep, deep respect. At one stage, in the wet, we weren't allowed to fish because the barramundi would be moving up and downstream and throwing their eggs. Yes, spawning. Yeah. One year they came to the wharf, to all the fishermen, and of course we had never asked anybody's permission. And they said, please don't go fishing for the next 6 weeks because one of ours have died, Albert his name was, and he needs to know where he's going to settle. And everybody in the fishing fleet took no notice. Yeah. And when we set off And Les and I, we went north. We didn't fish because they'd asked us not to. And so when that 6 weeks was over, we had caught nothing. We went south again. And one day the Aboriginals, they turned up on the shore. And we went over and got them and brought them back. And you would get ice cream for the pickaninnies. Cigars for the men, rollies, tobacco for the women, cups of tea. And they said, we fellas, we saw what you did, not going where we'd asked you not to go. And they said, we want to offer you a child. And the mother, she's gone walkabout. And because of what you did, we know you have respect, we want to offer you a child. And, um, I, I, I said, uh, does that mean forever? They said, no, no, you can look after for some years, then they come and take. And I said no. Right. And, and I'm, I'm sorry that I said no. Yeah. Now, because it would have been fortunate for that period of time. But they were like that, you know, they were extraordinary people and They, um, they shared a lot with us in their knowledge and skill.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 27:54

Wow. All things change though. Yes.

John Milham (Host) · 27:59

And I, I want to say, I think anybody who has, who hasn't had regret in their life hasn't had enough adventure. But, but it's, but you can have regret, but don't hold it. Yeah. Just look at it and go, oh well, that, that was like that, but that's okay now too, you know, to forgive it.

Regret as an adventure indicator

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 28:20

So you, regret is a low adventure indicator light, right?

John Milham (Host) · 28:24

Uh, you, you, you can look and say, I wish I'd done it differently, but let it go. Yeah. Don't hold it as a, yeah. You know, so I'm saying, you, you know, have adventure. See who you are, isn't it?

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 28:39

Well, that wasn't the end of your adventures. So, da da da da. So turn the page, right? Your time as a, as a, as a, the matriarch of the fishing fleet is over, right?

John Milham (Host) · 28:56

There weren't many women on the ocean. I was one of probably 2 or 3. And the difficult part about that was that The men who owned boats and who were on the sea were pretty dreadful. Yeah. And that involved, who do you think you are? As a woman, you've got no right to be on the sea. And by the way, it's your fault we didn't catch any fish, or your fault that the engine's broken down. Oh, and by the way, you can sleep with me and you can mend nets and you can steer the vessel. Mm-hmm. And so it was, um, at, at the beginning of the change. And I have realized now that men over the centuries have had a pretty dreadful model. They've been taught a dreadful model too. Yeah. Yeah.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 29:49

You know, so yeah, there was, so it's quite, uh, you know, as we talked about earlier, it's quite wild, right? So, and, um, But you, you are not, you know, you, you, you had, you were in the middle of this, you know, kind of raw, violent sort of real player, you know, experience, right? But you're, but you're a friend of men.

John Milham (Host) · 30:12

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And celebrating their, their extraordinariness and their, their skills and their knowledge and, and all of that too. Yes. And, I think, you know, there was a fair bit of bloke in me at the same time too, you know, the— that, um, chappy.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 30:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Capable of, um, you know, of, um, swinging it with the best of them.

John Milham (Host) · 30:41

Remember, um, being— Weipa was a single men's mining quarters, right? And there was one bar there at the end of the mining quarters. And men would only drink there, Barmi, because that's where we would tie the boat up. Right, yeah. And I always remember throwing a punch there that worked, as you know, as I ran away. To hide under the wharf so that I wouldn't— but, you know, someone had been rude to me and, and I'd had enough and just let this, let this fabulous, uh, right, what is it, wind just go kaboom. And most gorgeous, he just fell on the deck.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 31:35

Well, you never mess with a, with a fisherman. That, that was always a rule of mine. Never, never arm wrestle with a stonemason or a fisherman.

John Milham (Host) · 31:42

Woman, right? So, you know, and I leapt over and ran. Beautiful.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 31:49

Um, oh yeah. So how, there's a, there's a big difference between Weipa, Arakoon, and of course Katoomba. So tell us, how did you start to bridge the gap? Because, because there were more adventures, right? You know, like I've seen the bio, right? You're up in North Queensland in this absolutely unsophisticated and quite raw place, but, you know, soon to be in some of the calmest, most tranquil places you could find. Tell us about how you got involved with Buddhism.

Arrested and writing to the Dalai Lama

John Milham (Host) · 32:28

Oh, um, most interesting, uh, uh, and most fortunate and, um, It must have been the early '90s or mid-'90s, something like that. And, um, I started having dreams of the Dalai Lama and, and could remember back when I was little having similar dreams. And, um, And so, uh, one day I, I, at that stage I was in Cairns and I had a t-shirt factory that I owned. And the man that I was with was turning out to be a gambler, right? And, and a heavy drinker and, and losing it. And in amongst all of that, um, and we, you know, we were both drinkers. And one night after getting a good contract, upon driving home, I got arrested for, for drinking too much. They chucked me in, in the slot, you know, and you— everyone's got to end up in the slot one time in their life. And I tried to talk the police into giving me the t-shirt contract for their— yeah, and, and when I went home and I realized I needed to tidy me up amongst other, and I sat down and I wrote a letter completely immediately, spontaneously to His Holiness, thanking him for coming to the West and bringing wisdom.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 34:14

So you just decided out of, you know, you've just been released from the police station, so I better write a letter to the Dalai Lama. Okay.

John Milham (Host) · 34:22

Here I am sorting out the money, which is rapidly going and gambling, et cetera. Yeah. And, um, and there was no internet then, so I just addressed it to the Dalai Lama, North India, and put lots of stamps on it. Yeah, right. And it was just to thank him. Yeah. For coming and, and popped it into the mail to satisfy me. Mm-hmm. Uh, and, and so just before I limped out of, out of Cairns with no loot in the pocket, And drove a failed business venture because the man has let you down again. Because he's gambling, because he's drinking, etc. Yeah. And, and, um, uh, and not expecting, and not to, to drive the 3,000 miles home brokenhearted and torn apart and don't got no loot and another, you know, adventure in smithereens.. And this envelope turned up. I thought, who would be writing to me from North, North India? And open it up and it was letter from His Holiness. Oh, you're kidding me. Saying, thank you very much for your offer of services. Thank you for your letter and for your offers of services. And so I limped to it and thought, I went, oh yeah. Penny didn't drop. Went down to Adelaide and, and somehow discovered along the way that there he was coming. It was his first journey. Wow. And, and oh, I, I know I was driving home one day and a house called out to me and it said, Robin, you have to stop and look. And so I backed up and there was this little three red brick house and I thought, oh yeah. And above it was written, uh, Thai Buddhist Meditation Temple. Mm-hmm. And I drove off and 2 or 3 weeks later, unbeknownst to me, I got out of bed one morning, showered, got in my car and just drove there. Wow. Without knowing I was doing it and knocked on the door. Mm-hmm. And, and this robed monk came, he said, oh, He said, uh, do you have an appointment? I looked at him, I said, mate, mate, I said, I've got no idea. You tell me why I'm here. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. And went in and, and sat and, and when this monk put his hands together, I did. And when he didn't, I didn't. Yeah. And he was speaking Malaysian anyway. And I told him just before I left that the Dalai Lama had written me a letter.. And I went home and thought, oh yeah. 2 or 3 weeks later I get a phone call and it's the monk asking me would I mind taking he and, and his sidekick to a meeting in the center of Adelaide where all the Buddhists were gathering because the Dalai Lama was coming. Wow. And there I was in the FJ Holden. With, with this column shift with two monks in the back. Here I am, this funny fisherman driving these two monks to the, to this, this public meeting. And I knew no one. And coming out as secretary of the tour in South Australia mysteriously. Oh, I maybe no one else wanted to do it.

Following the Dalai Lama to New Zealand

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 38:04

So you, so another secret sort of, you know, secretarial role just popped up. So you became, you became, uh, the secretary for the tour in South Australia. In South Australia. My goodness.

John Milham (Host) · 38:18

Right. And put on fabulous concert at the Adelaide Town Hall. Did things. Yeah. But by the time he came, uh, I was with a, a scurrilous chappy. And I wasn't in Adelaide. And so after he came to Australia, he went to New Zealand. Yeah. And so I caught a plane.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 38:41

So you didn't meet him after all of that? You didn't meet him in Australia? No. No.

John Milham (Host) · 38:46

I caught a plane to, um, to New Zealand just to follow him. Hmm. Because I was so disappointed in missing him. And wherever he went, I just rang the tour operators that David was on tour and would say, where is he? And they'd say, oh, he's in Wellington, or he's in where. And I'd go there and get there early and just go into whatever he was doing. And one day I rang and I said, where will he be tomorrow? And they said, he'll be at the Wellington Parliament House, but you're not welcome. Oh, pain, you know, dangerous. You should never say that to me.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 39:27

No. Why, why, why were you not welcome? Was that a general not welcome rule?

John Milham (Host) · 39:33

No, it was a political gathering.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 39:35

Oh, right. Okay. You see, so they didn't want the peasants there, so to speak. Yeah. Yeah. They didn't want the simple followers. Yeah. Yeah.

John Milham (Host) · 39:42

Yeah. And so the next morning I leapt out of bed and tarted up, put on, put on some nice clothes. Caught a cab, went there, and there's this big Māori guard standing at the door. And I go up and I say, excuse me, my name's Robyn Catchlove, and I'd very much like to go to this meeting. And you know that I was involved in Adelaide. And he, big and lovely, and he goes, bro, bro, bro, I can't get you in there, bro. And I said, well, who can? He said, bro, he said, the mayor, the mayor can. And I said, well, take me to the mayor. And again, I've got no idea what's taking place. It's just— and so we go along the mahogany polished floors, up the mahogany stairs to the mahogany door. Yeah, yeah. Knock, knock, knock. Door opens. There's the mayor sitting at a mahogany desk.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 40:41

Yeah.

John Milham (Host) · 40:42

And he's got the gold chains and a little bit of dandruff on his— Yeah, yeah, of course. And, you know, and the Marra goes, "This is Robert," and disappears. And I say, "Well, how do you do?" Brushed a little bit of his dandruff off, tidied up his gold chains. And I said, "My name's Robyn Cashlove, and I very much— oh, you know, I've been involved in the touring." in Australian, very much like to come to this meeting. And he had a pulsing red nose. I think he might have had a couple of tipples, but he said, my dear, he said, not only can you come, he said, you can come on my arm. Oh, lovely. And popped his arm out and I said, well, thank you very much. And off we go down this hallway.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 41:32

Paid off putting the good clothes on.

John Milham (Host) · 41:34

Yeah. And, and, and off he and I go down the hallway to this meeting, and His Holiness comes in and is joyous and laughs. And I definitely didn't need to be there, but was. And afterwards they had canapés and champagne, and I'm busy popping canapés in the pocket and sipping champagne. And, and the crowd parts And it's, it's the mayor with His Holiness. And the mayor comes up and he says, um, Robyn Catchlove. He said, Robyn Catchlove, this is His Holiness, as if I didn't know. This is His Holiness. And His Holiness, this is Robyn Catchlove. Oh, I just was just honored and, and silent and speechless. And I mean, I know His Holiness didn't go back to India and say, oh, I met Rob in New Zealand. Yeah.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 42:30

Yeah. Thank goodness. You know, but I'm sure he tells this story often, right?

John Milham (Host) · 42:35

But what, what, you know, what a, what a fortunate honor, you know.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 42:43

So how, like, so that wasn't your end of Buddhism, of course, right? Oh, you have a groupie.

The teachings that reach her heart

John Milham (Host) · 42:50

Uh, oh, um, I, um, their teachings are profound. And, and you don't have to call yourself a Buddhist or a Christian or an anything. You just, it, it's just truly deeply about a compassion that exists in your heart continuously. And, and you sitting in it. Hmm. And, and so the, the, the teachings, uh, the teachings about how you and I can attain enlightenment. It's not about somebody who's already enlightened and you'll never get there. It's being taught that you can do the same. And, and that when you, of course, the call of compassion is profound and undeniable.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 43:43

And I, I remember, you know, way before I even, you know, explored anything particularly deep, um, reading, uh, The Happiness, The Guide to Happiness from, from his eyes. And, uh, I remember being challenged completely by the idea that the people I needed to be most grateful for were the people who caused me the most trouble. Uh, because that was the biggest opportunity for me to be a better person. Yeah. So, and that's, that, that simple principle I've found has underpinned all aspects of personal development and growth, you know, across the world where regardless of how people describe it or they come up with stuff. Yes, yes, yes.

John Milham (Host) · 44:27

And isn't that true? Um, my, um, ultimately, uh, I am what's called a Dzogchen practitioner, and that comes from also from Tibet, but before Tibetan Buddhism. So, so in India, the, the, um, The Muslims were razing India to the ground. And so a lot of realized teachers went to Tibet. Mm-hmm. And, and that is how Tibetan Buddhism took place. But before that was a culture called Bon, B-O-N. Mm-hmm. And they had been practicing this awareness of compassion 1,000 years before Jesus Christ. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And, and my teacher, Kijö Rinpoche, it not only had they been practicing it, but he said that it was being taught in 16 galaxies. Yeah. Isn't that fabulous? So, uh, yeah.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 45:31

So an extensive school, not just your earthly.

John Milham (Host) · 45:34

Yeah. Yeah. Galaxies.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 45:37

So of course Rinpoche, uh, like a world recognized figure, right? How are you hanging out with him?

John Milham (Host) · 45:45

Oh, he's no longer alive. No, but he was the most extraordinary man in that he didn't necessarily dress in robes. Uh, and that's what he was saying. You don't have to do deep meditations, become aware of yourself and your limitations and let them go. A beautiful, what's that word? Universal teachings. Yeah.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 46:07

In many ways he was responsible for almost, uh, mainstreaming Buddhism in some ways, right? So, you know, he, he, he had a quite a profile in the West.

John Milham (Host) · 46:18

So, oh, um, Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche talks more about Dzogchen than Tibetan Buddhism. Right. So, which goes back further. So in Tibetan Buddhism, there's 4 main schools and about 9 schools. And His Holiness the Dalai Lama is the head of the Gelug tradition. So there's Gelug and Sakya, there's a range of, uh, similar but different practitioners. Dzogchen is, um, that before that, and, and more simple, uh, yet more profound, I suspect. So, and, and it's the draw of that Having that for you and for I, for all of us, the irresistible knowledge that compassion is our central heart for all beings, for all sentient beings. There's a prayer, it goes, may all sentient beings have happiness and the causes of happiness. May all sentient beings be free from suffering and the causes of suffering. Mm-hmm. May all sentient beings not be separated from sorrowless bliss. Mm-hmm. May all sentient beings abide in happiness, uh, without sadness, attachments.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 47:53

Beautiful. Yeah. I'm, I'm up for that. Yeah. And of course, that's, you know, you, you practice that every day these days. Just a, a little backtrack, right? You mentioned your scurrilous man. I think in the bio there's quite a lot of scurrilous men.

John Milham (Host) · 48:10

You, you are right. You're right.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 48:15

So was that part of the journey? Is like, why were you, you know, what you were hanging out for, you know, Les was your, you know, your great adventure. And of course, there were, you know, gamblers and, and, and, you know, fighters and rough blokes and stuff. So yeah. So what, what's that journey about? What's your journey? What's the journey of a heart meant to you?

John Milham (Host) · 48:37

I think a heart full of love and wanting to give and, and mistaking passion for love. Yeah. And, and giving readily. Uh, and, and, um, many of them I would call wounded warriors already, and so was I.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 49:01

Are you trying to fix these men, Katchi?

John Milham (Host) · 49:05

But, and wanting to be fixed. Yeah. And they weren't the days when you could go to somebody and ask some questions. There was a, um, my healingness was in there trying to learn too, I think. Yeah. And, and, um, and the adventure. I think I was fearless driving to different towns and setting up on my own and going and getting work, selling real estate. I used to drive out into the mining country and sell real estate to to, um, in Thierry and Middle Mountain, Wollongong, you know, on my own. Yeah. Do 500, 600 kilometers and then go and do present day or sell opals or, um, I, you know, it's unexplainable. It's like, young Sir John, is life unexplainable though, in your view, or with what's taken place with your life?

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 50:12

Yeah, I, I like, it's a great question, Kathy. I, I perhaps, I think the definition of life might be, um, just how actively we try to explain things, right? So, you know, maybe a great life is a curious life, a life where we try to answer questions that probably don't have an answer, right?

John Milham (Host) · 50:31

Ah, so, so that's a, that's a top answer that they don't, have an answer. I remember many years later going to my mum when I was, I don't know, in my 50s, and saying, and apologizing. Yeah. For the life. And she looked at me and she said, Robin, she said, if you'd have been one of the boys, yeah, it would have been all right. But she said, you were my daughter. Yeah. And, and she took me to her wardrobe and she took out this lovely plastic sealed bag inside of which was a hand-crocheted by her christening gown. She looked at me and she said, this was for your first child. Oh, kiddo. And we looked at each other and we burst out crying. And, and she said, the life is— Mum and Dad, but your life is written already. You know, which is unexplainable, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 51:37

You know, like, uh, you never, did you ever feel like you were going in a direction where you had no choice, where you had no power? Right. Because that's, you know, if we, if our life is written, we don't have choices yet. We make lots of choices, don't we? Oh yeah.

John Milham (Host) · 51:53

Uh, many years lost, hurt. Yeah. Suffering. Uh, Suffering for love, for being on my own. Um, unexplained, not being able to, oh, of course. Yeah. All, all of that humanness.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 52:12

What, what do you, what did you learn? What, what, what, what would you, what would you summarize your, your big learnings from that whole, you know, from that level of experience of diving in?

John Milham (Host) · 52:28

I discovered one day as I was grizzling to me about what I should or shouldn't have or how I was, and, and I, I had a quick chat to me and I used the magic word, I might add, and I said, Robin, shut the you know what up. Yeah. And start getting grateful. Yeah. Wow. And thank everything, in particular the things you don't like. Thank you, rain that's making me wet and I don't like it, but I know you are watering something somewhere. Thank you, little bird that's just died in front of me for what you are teaching me. Just thank you for that funny little box in the kitchen that you open and all the lights go on and everything inside it. It's cold. Yeah. Thank you for water coming out of the shower. If you just started thanking everything and, and I think in that is you forgive everything and, and it falls away. It, it doesn't take, you don't have to practice it and think it and figure it out and sit there with your candles. And your Buddhas and your blah-de-blahs and get lessons. You just start thanking. Yeah. Just, just thank you, little eyes for still seeing, ears for, you know, just, and, and thanking nature. You know, that little flower I saw this morning, so extraordinary, and it just unfurled folded and it was yellow and pink and orange on the inside. Colors you never put together. And you, what do you, what's your, what have you discovered?

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 54:20

The hugeness in smallness. Go on. Go on. Well, this isn't about me, Katchie. So you, you clever thing. Right. But just that, just that, um, the, the more The more we're certain, the more we're, we see ourselves as big and important, the more sure we are of anything, the further away we are from truth.

John Milham (Host) · 54:46

Rather than truth, can I suggest awareness? Yeah, I think that's a good, that's a good suggestion.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 54:53

Yeah. So the further we are away from awareness.

John Milham (Host) · 54:55

Yeah. So that you don't go, this is good and this is bad. That's right. It's meaningless. You, what, you recognize it and allow it to allow it. Maybe it's something like that. And all I can say is I, I'm, I'm a fabulous number one witty public nuisance of mirror, but for that same joy, I mean. Yeah. The simpleness. Of being able to, um, not long ago, um, and I'm saying that I'm honored, honestly, I'm no heroics at all, um, uh, recently a big truck, 100-tonner, pulls up at the petrol station but out on the footpath Not in the station. And I think, oh, I'll go and be wittily charming. And as my, and he's standing there and he's mid-seventies, muscly, windblown, Aussie, bronzed, weathered, bits of wind, weathered. Yeah. Uh, got the stubby shorts on that he probably wore for a fortnight one way and turned them around the other way for the next fortnight. The Jackie Howe. Yeah. And, and the, and the rolly unlift. Yeah. Oh, lovely. Yeah. And, um, and he's wiping the, uh, big bumper bars in the front of his truck. And I could feel his, he wasn't happy. And I went to him, I said, are you all right? Mm-hmm. And he looked at me and, and started to rub his hand. He said, mate, mate. He said, no, I'm not, mate. I said, what's wrong? He said, mate, he said, I've driven millions of kilometers. And he said, I've been on the road all my life, but he said, I never get over it. And I said, what? And he said, mate, he said, I just ran over a roo. And I said to him, is he dead? And he said, that's the best bit, mate, he is. But he said, I never get over it. And We just put our arms around each other and we sent the roo love. Right. Isn't it? And he, he, we, and, and we both did. And it was an honor for us both. And, and, and anyway, oh, he said, mate, mate. He said, now I feel better. He said, I feel better now. And he swung up into his cab.. And I, I threw him some, you know, love from my heart. He did the same back. Isn't it? And, and off he went and trundled off into, you know, the highway of life. Those moments, they're, they're, they're precious, but they're there for everybody. Yeah. You know, just the dance, isn't it?

A truck driver and a dead kangaroo

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 58:01

What a, uh, what a dance it is. Um, of course, people can hear, they can read your book and, uh, they can read the book. Yeah, they can read your book. It's available, I'm sure, like, you, they can find it on back, backlists and things and at bookstores. Um, or on your website.

John Milham (Host) · 58:20

The name of the book is Somewhere Down a Crazy River. Somewhere Down a Crazy— Yeah. And it comes somewhere down a Breezy River. And it comes from Robbie Robertson, who was the leader of the band that backed Bob Dylan. Right. Wow. And Robbie Robertson, who has just recently died, was a fabulous singer. And he sings this song about somewhere down a creek. I know. I think I'll go and see Madam X. You know, and he's down in sort of Mississippi. Somewhere like that. So there's a reference to, with respect to him.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 59:01

So Somewhere Down the Crazy River by Robin Catchlove. Of course they can listen to you on community radio. You're on Radio Northern Beach, uh, Radio Blue Mountains. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With, with a couple of shows, right? Keeping the locals both up to date on love and gratitude and good music.

John Milham (Host) · 59:20

Good music and, and community radio is extraordinary because the community owns it. And so people who are doing interesting things in the community come on my station, come and let me interview you, come and let us share. So yeah, yeah, it sounds amazing.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 59:36

Um, Katchi, it's been a wonderful small taste, just a tiny taste of your incredible life. Which I am so grateful for you sharing with me and the Kintsugi Heroes listeners. What a, what a, your, your wisdom is profound and I'm so grateful that you are both in the world spreading that little bit of kangaroo love, right?

John Milham (Host) · 1:00:04

Thank you, Doug.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 1:00:05

And that you are a witty nuisance for all of us.

John Milham (Host) · 1:00:10

And can I please just say, You are a joy, and your, your wisdom and your knowledge and your willingness to share at a deep level is essential for us all to hear, women and men alike, that, that you, that, and I deeply appreciate that. Thank you, goodest man. Wow.

Robyn Catchlove (R) (Guest) · 1:00:35

Thank you, Katchi. Very grateful.

John Milham (Host) · 1:00:45

Thank you for listening to this episode of Connecting Seniors, a Kintsugi Heroes special series. If you enjoyed this conversation, share the podcast with a friend and let us know by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to To support Kintsugi Heroes and the stories we share, head to kintsugiheroes.com.au and follow the instructions to make a tax-deductible donation. Thank you for listening. We'll see you next week.

Dancing amongst life's chaos and adventures with Robyn Catchlove

Overview

Chapters

A curious child in Adelaide

Books, puns, and questions that drove her parents mad

Ten years in a top-secret office

Walking away from a stable marriage

The old man of the Normanby River

Ten years fishing between New Guinea and Queensland

Learning from Aboriginal elders at Aurukun

Regret as an adventure indicator

Arrested and writing to the Dalai Lama

Following the Dalai Lama to New Zealand

The teachings that reach her heart

A truck driver and a dead kangaroo

In Robyn Catchlove's words

Robyn Catchlove, today

Common questions

Is this a true story?

What organisation produced this?

What did Robyn Catchlove learn from this experience?

What would Robyn Catchlove want listeners to know?

What helped Robyn Catchlove most along the way?

What would Robyn Catchlove tell someone going through something similar?

Transcript

A curious child in Adelaide

Support

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From Saddle Making to Global Tech Leadership with John Dwyer

An Inspiring Journey of Melanoma Survival and Living Sun-Smart with Anne Gately

What topics does this episode cover?

Books, puns, and questions that drove her parents mad

Ten years in a top-secret office

Walking away from a stable marriage

The old man of the Normanby River

Ten years fishing between New Guinea and Queensland

Learning from Aboriginal elders at Aurukun

Regret as an adventure indicator

Arrested and writing to the Dalai Lama

Following the Dalai Lama to New Zealand

The teachings that reach her heart

A truck driver and a dead kangaroo