Graham Radford · 56 min
A fifth-generation farmer turned Murray River resident, Graham Radford lost a metre of water through his historic cottage and emerged demanding something the system never delivered: a documented plan so the next flood doesn't catch anyone unprepared.
Hear this story
Graham Radford's family has worked the land for five generations. After decades fighting drought on sheep stations and farms inland, he and his wife moved to the River Murray in 2010, drawn by the water and its beauty. They built a life there: a bed-and-breakfast in a 130-year-old cottage, a tourism business running horse tours that brought 1,500 visitors a year through the bush. Then the 2022 floods came. A metre of water filled the cottage. Crops he'd planted were destroyed. What should have brought nutrients to the soil instead brought salt that killed everything growing.
But the flood's worst damage was different. Graham spent weeks preparing his cottage with family and engineers, calling politicians and radio stations, desperate to find any documented guidance on protecting a historic stone building from floodwater. Nobody had answers. When emergency responders finally came, they offered him three sandbags. He ended up filling 2,200. What saved the cottage wasn't the sandbags at all. It was plastic membrane, wrapped in layers by his engineer nephew, protecting the mortar from the current's force. Simple. Undocumented. Learned only through trial.
Now Graham is asking something the system has never delivered: a written manual. He wants the community to document what happened in 2022, what worked, what failed, what people should do next time. The knowledge from the 1956 flood was lost. He won't let it happen again. Two years later, nobody has started this work. Graham believes it is the most important thing that could be done for the next flood, whenever it comes.
“I spent a lot of time on the phone phoning um Victoria all over the place trying to find out how I could protect a 130 year old cottage on the banks of the river and nobody could give me any information.”
“I can understand how so many people have been affected mentally by the flood.”
“Document the whole thing for the next time. And gee, it would make life easier for everybody, including the SCEs, who are a marvellous organisation.”
The hero, today
Graham spent weeks preparing his cottage with family and engineers because he couldn't find any official guidance on how to protect a 130-year-old building from floodwater. The plastic membrane protecting the cottage's mortar was more effective than the thousands of sandbags they filled, yet early emergency responders offered only three sandbags per person. Graham believes the most important step for the next flood is documenting what happened in 2022, what worked, what failed, and what people should do, so knowledge isn't lost again as it was from the 1956 flood. Graham wants to bring affected community members together to develop a manual for flood preparation and response, and is frustrated that no government organization has initiated this work in the two years since the water receded. Graham accepted the flood as the inevitable price of living on the Murray because of the river's beauty, but the lack of information and support made the disaster far harder than it needed to be.
Yes. Graham Radford is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Graham spent weeks preparing his cottage with family and engineers because he couldn't find any official guidance on how to protect a 130-year-old building from floodwater.
The plastic membrane protecting the cottage's mortar was more effective than the thousands of sandbags they filled, yet early emergency responders offered only three sandbags per person.
Graham believes the most important step for the next flood is documenting what happened in 2022, what worked, what failed, and what people should do, so knowledge isn't lost again as it was from the 1956 flood.
John Milham (Host) · 00:00
Kintsugi Heroes brings you the following River Murray flood recovery story, jointly funded by the Commonwealth and South Australian governments under the Disaster Recovery Funding Arrangements. To find out more about this podcast, head to kintsugiheroes.com.au. The 2022 River Murray floods in South Australia were caused by record water inflows from the Murray-Darling Basin due to heavy upstream rainfall. The slowly rising floodwaters inundated homes, businesses, and farmland, causing widespread displacement, infrastructure damage, and agricultural losses. The disaster significantly impacted local economies, communities, and led to the region's long-term recovery. In this special limited series of Kintsugi Heroes, John Milham sits down with members of the Riverlands community and gives them space to share their experiences of their personal adversity diversity and community resilience. It's only through connection and empathy that there can be a path to recovery. In this episode, John Milham is joined by Graham Radford. When the 2022 floods struck, Graham faced the realities of a rural community hit hard by a natural disaster, dealing with limited information, the rush to protect property, and unexpected challenges in recovery. Through practical problem solving, support from family and neighbours, and a determination to adapt, Graham not only rebuilt his own home and lifestyle, but also became a strong voice for better communication and preparedness in the face of future floods.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 01:54
So friends of Kintsugi, ladies and gentlemen listeners, welcome to another podcast with Kintsugi Heroes. And this time we are talking to someone in the River Murray Flood Recovery Stories series, and we're talking to a man who basically is up to his armpits in muddy water, right? Um, so Graham Radford's Thank you so much for joining Contiki Heroes.
John Milham (Host) · 02:22
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Graham wants to bring affected community members together to develop a manual for flood preparation and response, and is frustrated that no government organization has initiated this work in the two years since the water receded.
This conversation includes five generations on the land, finally enough water, then too much, searching for answers nobody had, sandbags and plastic wrap, the price of living on the river and the knowledge from 1956 was lost.
My pleasure. Yeah.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 02:24
And, um, in terms of, uh, you know, the multi-generation, the past, yeah, you say not here. Where, where was here?
John Milham (Host) · 02:35
We, we started— I don't know, you wouldn't know, a lot of people wouldn't know Burra, but we had a sheep station east of Burra, 50 K's out, was in my family for 5 generations. Then we bought a farm in the Barra Hills and we had that. I ran a tourism business for 17 years, uh, from there, and we operated our station and farm. And then, uh, I— dealing with people and horses doesn't always— it's not an easy mix, uh, but boy did I have a lot of fun over the years with a lot of people, but it was hard going. And I did it for 17 years and my wife thought I'd probably had enough. And so we ended up buying a place on the River Murray and that's where we are now, John, in 2010.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 03:25
So when you say you weren't on the Murray, right, Barra's not an enormous way away, right? It's, you know, at the sort of apex, you know, the gateway to the inner inner, uh, South Australia.
John Milham (Host) · 03:41
And, um, you're right about that. Yeah, so we originally, we bought house— some houseboats. A friend of mine and I bought 4 houseboats at Lake Eildon when things were going not so well down there. No water, so houseboats don't go well in no water.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 03:58
And not the natural thought, ah, all right, we're in the middle of a, you know, a dry spell, let's get a houseboat.
John Milham (Host) · 04:04
That's what we did, and we bought 4 of them, mate, and we brought them over to the River Murray thinking this is going to be a bit of fun, and it was fun. The people that helped us, the truckies, the pilots, they couldn't believe what fun we had. Anyway, we got them here to the river and to the Murray, and we thought we'd keep a couple and sell the others. We put them in at Waikerie, which is a fairly big town, The idea was to put them in a Waikere, take them down to Morgan, closer to us in Barra, and then we could come over and do work and sell them. But we liked Waikere so much that we kept them all there. We didn't really want to sell anything, but we sold 2 of them and kept 2. So that's how— and then my wife had a clothing business, and she used to come over to the houseboat to design her clothing. And one day she knew that I was, you know, getting, it was hard work as I said before, doing what I was doing. She came over and she always used to ring me up and say, oh, I finished designing, come over and I've just looked at a property. And so, all right, over I come, let's go and have a look at this property. And the rest is history. That was in 2010. Bought this place, we've always had trouble with water. John, we on our sheep station, always problems with water, dams going dry. And then we moved to the farm and then that was still an issue. Came over here and guess what? It's totally the opposite now. We've been flooded and never again will I complain about lack of water.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 05:49
That, uh, did that cover all of your previous water deficit? So you're like, well, you finally caught up, you're about running even now after those—
John Milham (Host) · 06:01
No, mate, no. What we've been through with this flood was really devastating. Um, gee, I didn't think, you know, I thought I'd be able to handle it all right, but gee, as I might— I explained to you personally But, um, you know, seeing your little house that's a B&B flooded and you know you won't be using it for a long time, uh, seeing all your crop being washed away, um, the, the next year's hay for the stock, uh, and just seriously just washed away, it is, um, it certainly affects you, no doubt about that. Um, and I can understand how so many people have been affected mentally by the flood. We know, we knew it was going to happen sometime, but you know what it's like, you don't— it's not going to happen in your time, uh, it'll be someone else's time after you. Um, but so yeah, it's tough going, it really is. I can really feel for people.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 07:02
And of course, you, you, um, you know, you mentioned, um, you know, you were, you know, worked with people and horses, right? Which is interesting. But, um, you, you have a natural affinity in, you know, supporting people in your place, right? You, you're an organizer, a, you know, a focal member of the community and, and helping people get through stuff. That when you say it was a really tough time or really awful time, that's not just your situation. You saw that across the board with the community itself, did whether they were underwater or not. So what was happening? What was happening for them? You know, like, what are the kind of things these people go through in these disasters?
John Milham (Host) · 07:50
It's just a shock, mate. You don't expect this to happen to you. You think, oh yes, there's a flood coming. How big is it? How massive will it be? How will it affect me? And it's an unknown thing. And I, you know, wouldn't you think with modern technology that they'd have a fair idea, you know, how much rain has fallen in the catchment area? Uh, so that will create so much water. Um, you would think that they'd have an idea, uh, how much water's coming down, but we were notified about water coming down. So we were well aware of it was coming in. Couple of weeks prior to it all happening, at least 2 weeks. I was 22, 23. But so we prepared massive, uh, uh, exercise. Friends, kids, relatives, nephews, engineers, nephews, you know, family, all coming up to help. We spent days and days and days preparing our tiny little cottage and And it was, it wasn't necessary. It, we had to protect it somehow for the structure of the thing, but stopping the water getting in is a very difficult thing. A levee bank's the only way. Yeah. So if that answers your question.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 09:18
Um, well, it's, it's interesting because when you, when you were, you knew the water was coming and that, you know, that message was getting out from the, from the people involved, from the government and councils and so on. How did you know what to do, right? Was that a moment of, oh, let's fix this, right? And then you go, right, what did you just do?
John Milham (Host) · 09:40
Great question, as they say. Extremely good question. I had no idea, mate. That was the thing, the reason I contacted Ian. I heard him on the radio and I thought, No, I tried, I spent a lot of time on the phone phoning Victoria all over the place trying to find out how I could protect a 130-year-old cottage on the banks of the river and nobody could give me any information. And when I heard Ian talking about what he was trying to establish, I thought, gee, this might be an opportunity. I contacted politicians and everyone saying, was there ever a paper written on just some information on how I can protect a 130-year-old cottage? That, you know, when we first came here, everyone said, you have to look after that cottage. And which I was determined to do. And we did, but boy, we spent hours and hours and hours. And if only I could have spoken to a number of people that did something other than a levy bank. You know, that's pretty simple, but I just couldn't find anybody.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 10:54
Well, we say a levee bank's simple, but that whole politics of levee banks and the construction and the, you know, even just getting an idea of ownership, right, with people, private land and government land and so on. So like even levee banks can be incredibly complex and difficult to organize. So Did you find anyone who gave you any serious assistance?
John Milham (Host) · 11:20
No, mate, I didn't. I just— we— oh, well, no, I didn't. So the reason is I had a nephew that's an engineer. He came up and said, let's do this. And it was terrific, actually, what he did. I mean, the building, the massive amount of water that went around it, you know, the current the, um, it was a meter of water in the cottage, which wasn't massive compared to 1956, but the current, it, it's stone. So if you hadn't protect, if we hadn't protected it like we did, the current would've gradually dug away at the mortar and, uh, then it probably would've collapsed.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 12:04
So like without sort of, you know, getting into, you know, high-tech details, What did you do to, like, that's fascinating. How do you protect a 130-year-old cottage?
John Milham (Host) · 12:14
It was fascinating because, as I said, I had no idea, but all these youngsters, you know how, um, um, they're very opinionated. They're on my wife's side of the family.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 12:28
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 12:29
The Gen Zs.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 12:30
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 12:32
But they were fabulous. They just had these ideas and I said, well, let's try. We, we spent days on bagging sandbags and gee, that was hard work. I even did myself an injury. I did my knee in because of the weight of the things. We did thousands of them and packed them all around the building. But I think the most important thing was the plastic that this engineer said, let's do this. Lovely young fella, nephew. We wrapped it in 5 layers of material, membrane, plastic, plastic. We put the sandbags on, more plastic. So as I said, the building didn't suffer at all, but just to stop the water getting in. And we didn't need to put so many sandbags up because they didn't do a lot. The plastic, this, the, to protect the structure and the mortar and the, was the most important thing.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 13:34
I'm fascinated because I've done a couple of flood project series now, and the technology doesn't seem to have moved on very much from, you know, the days when I was a kid, and, you know, the water would come in and come out. So I was almost expecting there to be, you know, new materials or new machines or whatever, but it, you know, hasn't really popped up.
John Milham (Host) · 14:01
That's the point I'm trying to make. You imagine the costs of the buildings that are affected, and gee, um, all through South Australia, the, the cost of rebuilding. If somebody could come up with a few simple ideas of what you need to do— I know a lot of people downstream didn't think it was going to be an issue, so they left their fridges in there, left their washing machine. So, and that was really devastating for them, but at least we got everything out. You know, we knew it was coming, as I said, but how big, how massive it was gonna be, no idea.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 14:41
So that, that, that seems to be a topic of conversation too. The, the expectation was set, that it wasn't that significant an event coming, right? So several months before, oh, the water was known to, to, to be in the future sometime. And so then the timing and the size of the impact was always being amended, right? And people were initially sort of, you know, taking the impression that there was not much to worry about. How did that flow? Did you, like, obviously you had a sense that that's not the full story. Did, was, you know, did that cause the community some consternation?
John Milham (Host) · 15:27
Why, it certainly did, John. That's what I said earlier. You know, with modern technology, you think they'd have an idea how big it would be and then people could prepare. But it's amazing feeling. It was amazing to watch. It seriously was. If it wasn't, you know, devastating to so many people, it was incredible to watch the water coming in, the fish all coming in. The, um, the way it, it panned out, it was amazing. Um, but you know, the fact that the what's left is the problem, and boy, there was a mess left, you know, in that tiny little cottage on the river. Um, it was— took us ages. We had to rebuild the whole inside, um, with any prefab stuff if you've got um, insulation. Insulation gets wet and moldy, so that has to be all pulled out. And so, um, it's, uh, yeah, how can I describe it? Certainly it's hard on people, very hard. But if you live in a flood area, you have to expect it, I suppose. Sadly, that—
Graham Radford (Guest) · 16:47
it's interesting you say that, for certainly many people seem to have that level of resilience, that sort of resignation, saying, well, um, oh, you know, we're there. And it's almost the price you pay for living in that space.
John Milham (Host) · 17:02
Inevitable. But is that worth it?
Graham Radford (Guest) · 17:05
Is like, is the Murray such an incredible, uh, venue that you, um, when you settle there, you kind of make that deal?
John Milham (Host) · 17:15
Oh, it's a fabulous bit of the river, a bit of water. It's just so nice. As I said, we fell in love with it. My father, when we were kids, used to bring us over to the Murray and go fishing from our sheep station, and oh, we loved it, and he loved it. And then I've always thought, wouldn't it be lovely to have something? Then we sort of originally bought those houseboats, and that's where we started. And it's just a beautiful, um, river. And we're in South Australia. It's funny, I love going to Victoria, to Swan Hill and Echuca, but the river up there is so minute compared to ours.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 17:56
And it has a very different vibe, isn't it?
John Milham (Host) · 17:58
Oh, it's a massive space, you know, this area of water down here. But it's just magnificent. So it is appealing, extremely appealing.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 18:08
Yeah, it was, um, it was a, you know, visiting the place was a was overwhelming in its difference and its grandeur. It's quite a spectacular piece.
John Milham (Host) · 18:17
Yeah. Yeah, I know. It's terrific.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 18:20
Do you, you love the landscape?
John Milham (Host) · 18:22
Do you love the river?
Graham Radford (Guest) · 18:24
Is that like, what, what, how does the river work for you?
John Milham (Host) · 18:27
Well, water, water is just, you know, you can sit on the veranda of our cottage and just watch it go by. I spend a lot of time down there preparing it for the next lot of guests that are coming. And I just can't help sitting down for a little while on the veranda just watching it go by. And when we first came here, we came in 2010, so we've been here for a while. The novelty hasn't worn off yet, John, but it, the, it's just superb watching it just go by. We don't see the boats we used to. It seems to be, I don't know if it's the, the way the economy is, but, uh, gee, there aren't many boats coming down anymore, but it's still just, yeah, as I said, lovely to be on the river, know that there's water there, endless water for our garden. We love our garden and I always wanted lots of lawn, so we've got heaps of that.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 19:25
That, um, it's an incredible wild space as well, right? With the, you know, the waterlands and marshes and sort of, you know, you know, river expanses and so on. So wildlife, fishing, of course, right? So how does that, you know, how does that work for a bloke who grew up, uh, in a dusty, you know, sheepy kind of corner of the country?
John Milham (Host) · 19:51
Well, totally the opposite, except sadly about the same amount of rain. We've got 400 acres here And, uh, we just love some rain. We've had 42 points for the year so far, and it's incredible. But, um, we, we went for a drive yesterday in an area that I hadn't been before, and to look at camp spots and camp areas. And, ah, it's amazing, these beautiful camp areas. And, you know, long weekend, Easter time, they weren't very busy. It's an area probably people haven't discovered, but just as I said, the river— when you've been in the bush all your life, the water is seriously attractive.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 20:40
That's amazing. So just, um, on that, on the river, right? And you said the boats, um, you know, don't seem that frequent and so on. It's a tough place to live. It's a tough place. You know, that corner of Australia is a tough place. It's hot, it's dry, doesn't get enough rain or too much rain. You know, the, you know, it's either drought or flood or, you know, some sort of calamity of some variety. Why do people persist in trying to make that their home?
John Milham (Host) · 21:13
Well, once again, I say, John, it's the attraction of the water. You know, if we go out to lunch somewhere, we live on the water. I can look out from, if you give me a minute, I'll just turn around and look out and there's the river. We live on the river. If we go out to lunch somewhere, we want to go somewhere we can sit and watch the river. And that's unique. That's the unique thing about it. I think this, people love water and it just, they're, that's the reason why it's just —so attractive, it's appealing.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 21:48
It's a very— as I'm proposing, it's a very tough place to live. Do you think the people are tough? Is that what, you know, gets you through?
John Milham (Host) · 21:57
Oh, people on the land are. That's renowned. They're renowned as being tough. Gee, you have your ups and downs. I've been on the land all my life. One minute you're— it's up there, and the next minute it's down there. The old wheel. Keeps turning, John. One moment you're doing really well and then the next minute, but it, it's just, yeah, it is tough. You're right. And the river is tough, but you don't expect these floods. That's why, you know, just when it happens, it's, um, it really does affect you because you always, as I said earlier, that you don't really think it's gonna happen to you. Um, but yeah, no, it's tougher, uh, but anywhere is on the land, you know, up north, uh, where we used to be. Boy, it's tough. Um, but prices and, um, the normal things that happen with agriculture.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 22:53
So it's a bit of a run at the moment with the drought, you know, 10-year drought and then COVID and now, and then a, um, a, a, you know, a near record flood.
John Milham (Host) · 23:03
Um, what's next? Oh, you wouldn't believe the people that predict that we were having another one. Uh, it was 2022-23. They said, oh, we're going to have one, um, in '23, the end of '23, and that'll be bigger because all the backwaters are full, um, and, um, it's going to be a massive flood. And that's what happened the last time. Well, that didn't happen. And just the people's predictions, it's quite amusing. I think if you listen to them all, you wouldn't be able to sleep at night, John. It's just incredible. Yeah.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 23:46
It's interesting when you, you know, people have opinions. One thing you kind of mentioned was the lack of info, right? The '56 flood, much of the lore of that, of that flood, or, you know, the sort of social knowing, um, had, had gone or people weren't listening to it anymore. What, what's your thoughts about that? You know, the, you know, you talked about finding and then leaving a legacy of information.
John Milham (Host) · 24:16
What are your thoughts about that? Well, I, I, you know, they probably didn't document much in those days. But boy, they should, should have, should do, should always do. Someone should come along and document it. As I said, I got in touch with politicians and said, someone needs to do a paper on this flood, how to handle the situation, what suggestions, you know, any suggestions should be made and what they should do to prepare. And gee, you know, there's a lot of people affected, um, you know, all the way from top end of Victoria right through to the bottom end of South Australia. So I just can't believe there's never been anything done. If once again, if that answers your question.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 25:09
Yeah, no, it's great. It, it, you know, it, it's, you know, it's such a significant feature. Like, uh, you know, so the Murray system is massively important to Adelaide, even for, you know, most— more 50% of fresh, of fresh water from, for Adelaide is through this system.
John Milham (Host) · 25:26
So yeah, that's why I was seriously interested in being involved in the early— when they first started talking about, oh, meetings, and there was never— and I, as I said, I rang politicians, uh, the radio stations to see if that we could, if I could be involved in a meeting that, um, we could talk about it, but it never happened.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 25:51
So there, there were, it was interesting cuz there were groups that were meeting, right? Talking about, uh, you know, we, we've talked to people who were involved in some of the, you know, systemic responses, right? And they had, but it, it became almost a, a challenge what to tell the community and what not to tell the community. We didn't want to panic them or we didn't, But like, I, I, I'm wondering if, you know, like total transparency is a better option. So there were meetings from, uh, you know, from systems and, and organizations, and they were, uh, about sort of the coordinated and official response, but there wasn't, uh, you know, they were debating about what to share with the community. And the question was, you know, how much transparency do you think the community should be, you know, should be having? Because more information, you know, keeps away the panic and the, and the, you know, is this prior to the flood, you mean, John?
John Milham (Host) · 26:55
Yeah, yeah.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 26:56
So, you know, like, you know, much of the, you know, much of the government meetings and SES and police and so on, they were getting together and having an emergency response meeting. Do you think the community was given enough information?
John Milham (Host) · 27:11
Well, I, I missed out on all that, so it's pretty hard for me to comment on it, but I guess probably not. You know, I was talking to a young fella the other day and, um, he said, oh, my in-laws have got a place, um, down on the river down towards Adelaide. And he said there are so many people that are so affected by it, they just want to just sell up and go. Now, if they had been— had some information about, you know, what it could have been, the consequences, you need to vacate all the equipment or whatever, if they could have got some info, maybe it would have been better for them. It's a bit hard to say, but, uh, anyway, it, he was saying that there were so many people in that area were still shell-shocked. Uh, but they didn't, gee, so many people didn't prepare at all, John, you know, fridges and as I said, stoves and we took all that stuff out when we, we knew it was coming.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 28:25
Yeah. And yeah, so. So many people didn't realize it would be, uh, as big an impact. So, you know, I— there, 2,000 residencies or 2,000 premises were lost, basically fully submerged during the period. So that's a substantial impact, right? It's a massive, massive impact. So, you know, like when you mentioned, uh, uh, that, uh, you were talking to someone and they, you know, the community is still impacted, still feels the trauma. How do you think that manifests? Are you seeing that? You obviously have a concern that there's still an impact out there. How do you see that?
John Milham (Host) · 29:10
Where we are, where we don't have the numbers of shacks and buildings and holiday places, we're in an area where the just mainly farms and vineyards and stuff. So we're, it's quite sparse here. So around here, not particularly. We were probably the worst hit, I think, John. But as I said, I couldn't really give you a good answer to that because I don't know, certainly not this way, but weren't badly affected. But down further where all the shacks were, they certainly were.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 29:52
And what do you hope happens for the community? What would be good to see for both your town and for up and for north and south of where you are? What would you like to see the place?
John Milham (Host) · 30:11
I don't know. What would I like to see? Only, as I said, my main reason for being involved originally was because there was no info. So perhaps really have some information for people to just give them some guidance. I just, you know, it's pretty hard, isn't it? I spent a lot of time ringing people. Everywhere, councils, to get some help. No help. No, no, make help available for people. Um, no, I don't want them to spend lots of money on something like this because they're all struggling. Uh, certainly the councils are after the flood, but just to make some, I don't know, some information available for people when they need to know. You know, they ring up about a flood, Oh, what can we expect? What can you tell us? What, how can you help us? Just some information on that would be great. On those points about help and who can help us. And I know, you know, they said, oh, there's sandbags available. Oh, right. Well, off I go to get sandbags. Oh, you can have 3. All right. Uh, 3 sandbags. What am I supposed to do with them? And we ended up with 2,200 sandbags, and even then it wasn't really enough. So that, that— I don't like to be critical, but boy, the organization early in the piece was pretty ordinary. But once again, nobody knew what to do. So nobody had— if there was something written, down on paper, documented. This is what you need to do. And, and by golly, they should do it now, John. Um, document the whole thing for the next time, and gee, it'd make life easier for everybody, including the SES, who are a marvelous organization. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 32:19
I think there's plenty of lessons out of that whole communication and, uh, You know, certainly that's what everybody seems to be pointing to.
John Milham (Host) · 32:27
Well, I, I just, yeah, just, it was, you know, when you've given me a little time to think about this, it was hopeless, absolutely hopeless. We were desperate to get sandbags. Um, and to just, as I said, uh, they'd say, oh, here's half a dozen. Um, and that's all you can have. Well, um, But yeah, that's once again, that's really important.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 32:53
That's to stand on so you don't, the water doesn't go over your head, right? Communication, that communication, encouraging new methods and central methods and expansion of the capacity, that seems like such an important aspect to focus on for future issues. And of course, despite the, you know, the conspiracy theorists, right, there is inevitably another flood coming, and that's what rivers do, right? What are you intending? Should it not do the courtesy of missing you out, what are you intending to do?
John Milham (Host) · 33:38
Don't you ask me that.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 33:40
I, Will you be leadership? Like, you know, like clearly you have, you have a lot to offer. Is that, is that what was missing? Something?
John Milham (Host) · 33:52
I would love to be involved in a meeting with people, uh, that were, uh, affected by it all, and for, uh, people to get together, heads together, and come up with some, uh, something. Yeah, very good question, that, actually. I, as I said, would be fabulous to be involved in something like that. People are infected. How can we improve it? Just like the questions you're asking me. What can we do in the future? What do you suggest? That was lacking, John. It really was. I was so disappointed and I lost interest. I thought, oh well, you know, we mightn't be hearing it out of 10 years' time when it floods again or so, well, bad luck. But I was so anxious in the early part to have something done and for someone to take an interest in what we can do in a situation again when it happens. And it didn't seem to be happening. So that to me is the most important thing. And it did, it helped everybody. Seriously would, you know, these poor people that— well, we'd never been affected by a flood before either, but these poor people that were completely washed out, you know, just, just if they'd known something, if they had some information from somebody, that is really important.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 35:23
Yeah, and a lot of, um, a lot of people are making their way back and they've rebuilt and dedicated themselves to getting back to where they were. And that's been great hardship in some cases. But there are also people out there who have walked away from the river.
John Milham (Host) · 35:41
Oh yes, mate. Yep. No, that's what I'm hearing from this friend of my son's who I had coffee with the other day. He said where his in-law's shack is, So many people have been affected, they just don't want to know about it anymore. They're just selling it and, and that's it. And you know, as I said, if they'd known something prior to what was happening and be prepared, uh, the story might be different.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 36:12
So your nephew was, um, heavily involved in the cleanup, was that?
John Milham (Host) · 36:17
No, my son was. Your son, right.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 36:19
And he was in charge of, of supporting the infrastructure.
John Milham (Host) · 36:23
And yeah, yeah, he's got army background and, um, and, uh, uh, that type of background.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 36:31
It's a massive job.
John Milham (Host) · 36:34
There's something terrible about a flood. Once again, that needs to be documented, John. Actually, that'd be a good point. He's, um, you know no longer with the company because he's moved on, project managing, but that, it'd be interesting to ask him. This is between you and I and not publicly to ask him what we should do. We're looking after his son and he's in Europe, mate. So we won't ask him now, But, um, gee, that, that is a very good point, actually. If he could get involved in something, um, to discuss making— how they could improve on how the cleanup was done, there's a lot of stuff that could be, uh, come out of this to help everybody. That was my— once again, say, my main aim in being involved was trying to help people in the future, um, what they can do. I think it's a no-brainer myself, you know. Why, why wouldn't they want to do something like that? Whoever the powers that be, why wouldn't they want to establish some documentation? I say it for about the 50th time, documentation to pass on to the next generation and this is what we had to do. This is what we happened. This is how high the water got. And this is what we should have done. We made a mistake doing this, this, this, and this. No, I just think it's a very important thing that something should be done, John, not just left and forgotten about. And the same old thing will happen next time and people will be affected probably a lot worse. Than us. We're more resilient, uh, our age group, after, yeah, the ups and downs of the last decade. Yeah, indeed, mate. And when you get to 75, um, you know, you've been through a few things, situations.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 38:48
5 generations on the land, there must be, um, a lot of inheriting, uh, some resilience in that. So, yeah, that's, um, In every tough situation, in every challenge, yeah, there's an opportunity to reframe and look for things that surprised and pleased or were, you know, things unexpectedly good. Did you see that around the district as you look post-flood? Were there things that you were kind of, you you know, pleased with.
John Milham (Host) · 39:26
Us personally, we were, because, um, our little cottage we think was slightly aging. Um, modernizing would be fantastic. Well, that's what we did, John. We modernized it, and it is fantastic. And the people that are coming back, it was— that was the joy of the thing. Uh, the, probably the best thing that could have happened is we modernized it. And the people that have been coming— we've been here for, as I said, 15 years. The cottage has been available for at least 10 or 12. And people coming back and saying, this is fantastic what you've done, modernizing a 130-year-old cottage. So we had to do it, and luckily we had a builder living in one of our houses, and he did all the you know, the rebuilding and stuff. And so that was one thing that happened. And sadly, I was thinking that a flood, that would bring in nutrients, put a lot of the right stuff back in the soil. I put a crop in the next year, half of it only went about 6 inches, and some of it went up to my chest. But it was incredible, and I, I thought, I've never had a crop like this, only a foot high. And we found out later that it, it, it sadly brings the salt to the surface when you have a flood. You don't get all the goodness from the flood and the sediment and the It leaches— the salt leaches back and nothing grows. So that was a disaster, right? That was really amazing.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 41:20
There's something we, we know we didn't know before.
John Milham (Host) · 41:23
So, no. And, um, what else? I'm trying to think of, uh, what about the river itself? Did it, uh— trees, trees, trees have been regenerating and, and the trees that haven't had much water are fantastic now. Um, that has been, you know, great. Um, what else, what else, what else? I, um, was quite surprised that things like fences weren't, uh, affected. I did a lot of fencing on this place when we bought it, and, uh, I thought, oh, the wire will rust and the fences will fall to bits and the droppers will be rusted out. But that didn't happen, which was terrific. I suppose it didn't last long enough, but, um, but what else would it have done to just giving the area a big drink that got flooded was terrific. We used to be, have a, from our kitchen window, superb view of the river, but now all the trees have flourished and we can't see it anymore.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 42:32
But so yeah, the trauma, uh, pops up in strange ways, right?
John Milham (Host) · 42:39
So it does, doesn't it?
Graham Radford (Guest) · 42:41
Um, it's, it's interesting because, uh, in many, the building, uh, rules have changed and so the heights have been adjusted now. So certain, you know, if you've had to rebuild or you've built new stuff, it's at a new height. So, you know, with a bit of hope, uh, less properties will be impacted by future events. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 43:06
So, but, um, I'm not aware of that, but, uh, yeah, I guess, uh, they'll have to, won't they?
Graham Radford (Guest) · 43:13
It, yeah, you'd think so. It'd be, be interesting to, to, to have, you know, you know, mark out places where the 56, uh, above which it was dry. So, you know, moving things, you know, 56 and then the 22.
John Milham (Host) · 43:29
We have now, um, plaques where the flood level was in and dated and so forth. So it's docu— even in our little cottage, there's some where the water level was, and people find that very interesting. Yeah, yeah, that's interesting.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 43:48
So, so, Graham, um, you know, you've, you've had quite a life, right? So You know, being involved in moving from sheep farming to tourist and, um, and, um, you know, uh, and, uh, providing businesses for people to visit places and so on. And of course, you know, horse tours and so on. What, what, um, is that the future for, for Australia, right? Is it?
John Milham (Host) · 44:16
And the rural area of Australia? I sadly, horse riding, um, has become out of the question because of insurance. I got out just at the right time. It's so sad because I ran it for 17 years and the people used to love coming up. We used to do sheep driving trips from one property to another, stock driving trips, cattle and camps right up through the hills. And we used to average up to 1,500 people a year. And gee, they loved it, camping and seeing the— it was so, um, just areas that weren't inhabited and it was just lovely open country and, uh, just, you know, superb. And that's not happening anymore because of the insurance. Insurance, as far as tourism goes, is pretty, um, a real issue. Sadly. Um, but, um, yeah, I don't know, John. It— people love getting out in the bush, love camping, don't they? And, um, I think, um, most Australians do anyway. But, uh, no, I couldn't really say any more than that, I don't think.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 45:38
As, um, how's the farming looking?
John Milham (Host) · 45:43
Ah, well, it's been— farming has been pretty ordinary in the last year or so, but once again, as I said earlier, that the old wheel turns. So next year will be better. John will be fantastic next year. Um, but, um, no, it's, um, a tough game, but people love it and they seriously love the challenge. And for young farmers, the cost of machinery is incredible, but gee, it makes it easier for them not lugging the old bags like we used to on our shoulders. They don't, would never think of doing that. I mean, it's easy, but it, you know, the cost of it all is incredible. Yeah. Yeah.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 46:31
But for you, your kids are not on the land with you?
John Milham (Host) · 46:35
No, we, we— they both went to uni, and, um, and that was great. The first of our family ever to go to university. Um, so that was pretty exciting for me anyway. And they're— they've gone off, and one's a social worker, and the other one, uh, did— um, he's working for a big company, and then he decided to go in the army for a while. And he's a major in the army, and then he's got a job with a mob that builds equipment for defense, and so he travels a lot overseas. And so, no, they love the land, but they didn't really want to come back on it, John.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 47:20
I just think that, and I encourage that, I must say, that not to come back So it's not a, it's a story that isn't, um, that is quite common in the, in rural areas now. And of course, um, you know, the next generation folk, you know, coming through, they're choosing not to, to do, you know, to take over the same burdens that their folks have, have, have struggled with. Right.
John Milham (Host) · 47:53
Well, I think they are though. That's the sad thing. And they had a terrific run for some years. Sheep prices, cattle prices, cropping. Um, they got off to a good start, the last generation. Um, but now things have really turned around. You know, it's been the driest in South Australia, the driest it's ever been in some areas. So that's really tough. And, you know, they're not prepared for it. They spend a lot of money on equipment, a lot of money in just to put a crop in costs an arm and a leg. And it's really, it's seriously a tough game. Why anyone would want to, I think you're better off going to uni or getting a job with, or fly in, fly out or something. But oh, it's just the challenge and the fact that the family have been on the land all their lives and like us, 5 generations, but our 5th generation aren't on the land anymore. But it's, oh, it's a good way of life when things are going well and people on the land are resilient and if they haven't got the money, they don't spend it. But if they have, they certainly do. Yeah. Which is a, can be a bit of an issue. Yeah. 'Cause there's none left when it gets dry. But no, I don't know.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 49:09
It's, it's certainly, you know, good life. Yeah. With, We mentioned just before we got on that you were describing some of the ways the community comes together. You organize to support each other. Often small town and rural Australia, we have that feeling that that's where community still exists, right? First of all, is that true? Does community still exist? And what do we, and how does it, how do we, if that's the case, how do we capture that?
John Milham (Host) · 49:50
How do we build on that to make it? I think it's extremely important, John, but gee, a lot of people on the land are very resilient, as I said before, and they don't like, they've seriously, don't like telling too much information or letting other people know too much information about their personal lives. I don't think, I think, um, it's, it's terrific to give that support and boy, you know, it's appreciated. Like I was telling you earlier, if you can do something for other people, it's just so rewarding. Uh, and Have I pressed a button? I pressed something here, mate. There's a— is it right? Um, I think it, it, it would be fabulous if more people were prepared to be involved, uh, to help out their fellow man. But, you know, everyone's busy these days. And as I said, so many people, when it comes to personal issues, they don't really want to talk about it. Because it's, you know, they're a pretty tough bunch, the old Aussie on the land. And they don't want to let anyone know that there's something wrong or they're having difficulties. But gee, you know, it'd be great help if they could do something to encourage people to get together more often. And they try to, I know they do. But yeah, no, I can see an issue there. It's Um, and with things getting a bit tougher, it's pretty important these days to have support. I think you need support, but, um, yeah.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 51:36
So I think the stats, you know, talk about rural men being 2.5 times more likely to suicide than, than other groups of men. So it's one of those, when times are tough, you know, when crops fail and, um, you know, natural disasters occur. It's something we probably need to be aware of.
John Milham (Host) · 51:55
Oh yeah, yeah. No, it's, um, you know, banks are the issue for those poor people on the land. They dictate the policy, and if you get too far in, that's the issue. Um, no, it's a, it's, as I said, it's a make or break situation. You can do, do quite well on the land. If you just poke along and, um, uh, and then don't put too— expend too much money, I suppose. Um, try not to— it's always, you know, the next door neighbor's bought a new tractor. Oh, I want something a bit better than him. So they go and they buy the bigger machinery, and— but it has to be paid for. Um, so I guess, yeah, you just got to be a bit conservative. And, but you know, it's a terrific life. I love the land, love stock, love handling animals. Um, sheep were my passion and boy, I love sheep. That was the saddest thing when I sold my sheep station, seeing those beautiful sheep going out the front gate. Um, not selling the property particularly, but just the, the sheep. Yeah, yeah, as I said, it's just a way of life and a dedication.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 53:17
Yeah, and, um, you have incredible ideas about how to do it properly and how to survive and how to prepare for the next challenge on the river. So, like, if I could just summarize, right, your homework from today's chat, right, really is about, uh, you know, organizing a, you know, a community, uh, um, a community group to prepare for the next one and produce the manual for—
John Milham (Host) · 53:52
most certainly, John, most certainly.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 53:55
So, and of course, that'll be— there'll be an AOM in that, no doubt, or something.
John Milham (Host) · 53:59
So gee, I think it'd be fantastic if something could come out of this. Um, I really do. I just cannot believe that it hasn't been done before. I can't. I just find it amazing. There's a lot of people in Queensland that should also have a manual.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 54:16
I think they've, they've been struggling.
John Milham (Host) · 54:18
Gee, did it help so many people. Now there's so many things and if they could, I don't know who should be, um, the organizer for something like this, but You know, it was 2022, 2023. It's great if they can do it on the spot. That's why I got in touch with Polly's and so forth. And, uh, anyway, nothing was done. So it's just sad that it's dragged on. Uh, when it's fresh in people's minds, that's the important time to get together and, and, you know, talk about it and things to happen. I just think it's a shame.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 54:56
Well, it's been wonderful capturing your thoughts and freshening up the memories of your experience and what you saw and did. And as we, as Kuntuki Heroes produces the book of the River Murray recovery stories, right, maybe that'll prompt somebody to take on that project and produce the manual for preparing for the next one.
John Milham (Host) · 55:23
Wouldn't it be good, John? And I'd feel very satisfied and pleased and felt it was all worthwhile. Absolutely.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 55:31
And it's been wonderful, Graeme. Thank you so much.
John Milham (Host) · 55:33
Good on you, mate. You're great.
Graham Radford (Guest) · 55:35
Thanks for sharing so much insight.
John Milham (Host) · 55:37
Terrific. Thank you for listening to this episode of Riverland Recovery Stories. If anything in this conversation has had a triggering effect, please seek support and reach out to someone who can help keep you safe. If you found this conversation interesting or helpful, please share it with your friends, family, and colleagues so we can help more people with their recovery from natural disasters. To find out more about Kintsugi Heroes and our other projects, head to kintsugiheroes.com.au. Thank you to our production team, Kintsugi Heroes volunteers, and most importantly, the Riverland community for sharing their lived experience.
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